Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Start with the synopsis first?

This is topic Start with the synopsis first? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by rjzeller (Member # 1906) on :

Okay, so I'm browing through the "Fragments and Feedback" forum and I run across the following thread that deals with query letters:

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum11/HTML/002395.html

And one thing I see in there very early on is a series of comments regarding the synopsis of the story. What struck were some of the questions Kathleen and (the real) Survivor threw at the originator. The questions really cause one to pause and think about the story, the plot, the characters and their motivations, etc.,

So I'm thinking to myself, "hey, self, that'd be a cool way to pin down your story." Now, I know that many do not outline their stories, they simply write. Others plan and organize every detail before they write. Many lie somewhere in between. But I just knew at the moment I read those responses that feedback on a synopsis would enable me to fix problems of motivation and logic that I (being far too intimately close to the tale) might otherwise miss.

So...

Is there a forum appropriate for submitting a synopsis of an entire story for people to respond to? I would think it might help some of us tremendously.

Or perhaps it's just a big ugly waste of time and a stupid idea. I dunno. But I thought I'd throw it out there.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

I've often heard this idea and I've even seen it in practice in another forum. But I'll tell you the truth -- I don't think it's a good use of your time or the critiquer's time. Here is my list of reasons why...(These ARE in order of importance as I see them.):

1. The real story is in the implementation. The best idea in the world can turn to ashes in the hands of a bad story teller and the worst idea in the world can turn to gold in the hands of a great one.

2. It's boring to critique an idea.

3. Ideas are cheap, but people get attached to them. In a forum such as this people would have to accept that someone may borrow and use their ideas. Granted, the same idea in two different writers' hands can be unrecognizable as having sprung from the same seed (see #1) but every so often you get something truly unique or even clever and then it gets messy.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Well, someone is currently reviewing a story idea with the forum's input in just this fashion. I think that it can be a fun sort of thread, even though I tend to be too stodgy for the "million ideas in a thread" sort of format that works best in many such discussions.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I was going to post something, but it seemed a slightly different topic than I first realized...anyway, it's probably better to just finish the damned thing completely and then get critiques and then revise or not.

Partial exception: if you're submitting a to a publisher you can get their input first from a submitted outline. That kinda only goes for a second novel after you've sold them the first one...for the first one, the "finish" rule applies, the better for them to know you can actually finish something...

Posted by BruceWayne1 (Member # 4604) on :

Robert for usw newbees what is the finish rule?

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

The finish rule isn't an official Hatrack rule, but it is a good rule for anyone who writes and wants feedback.

Basically, it's along the lines of

quote:
Writers should finish their stories, even if they stink, before they try to rewrite them.

There are actually at least two reasons for this rule.

1--by trying to finish a story, you discover if it is really worth finishing--if the ideas are strong enough to sustain a whole story

2--if you try to rewrite your story before you've finished it, you run the risk of having only a beautifully rewritten beginning and never getting to the end.

Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :

Also, if I hadn't finished the story, Kathleen's, Survivor's, Zero's, Wbriggs and Mommiller's questions would have had no answers because I hadn't fleshed out the idea. As it was, it was an issue of clarifying (just like in dealing with the first 13) so that everything I mentioned was clear. I can't imagine that process would have been nearly as helpful if I hadn't finished the story.

As an aside, had I done a written outline or synopsis when I started the story, the outline would not have matched the final product. Most people find that as they move through the writing process, questions come up or they discover the characters better that change the plot line. A "synposis" to start with could be good if you are that kind of writer, but be ready to throw it out the window when the story goes sideways.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

The finish rule, which is I think how Robert Nowall is using it, applies to submitting novels for publication. You NEVER submit a first novel to a publisher before it is finished. You DO NOT submit the synopsis, the idea, the first few chapters, until the book is IN THE CAN, including having gone through a couple of revisions.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Thanks, djvdakota.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Couldn't have put it better myself...though probably I should have tried to...