Hatrack River Writers Workshop: For those who use outlines

This is topic For those who use outlines in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

Let me start by stating my intentions -- I don't seek to debate whether outlining is good or not. (There are several threads already to discuss that topic.) I have made the decision that, 70,000 words into my novel, an outline would be useful for me.

My problem is that I have a complex story with a multitude of characters and plotlines. I’ve recently decided I need to do some serious restructuring to enhance the core plot that was being buried by the minutia of several subplots. (Thanks to Miss Snark, who says if you cannot summarize the plot in 50 words or less, it indicates a problem with your story. Trying to meet that challenge revealed to me that I’ve let the story wander too far away from the original concept.)

What I seek are suggestions from people who actually USE outlines, for practical methods to maintain a coherent outline.

--Do you use color-coded index cards?
--Do you use a spread-sheet?
--Do you print ideas out and tape them to the wall?

In other words, how do you physically outline? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the methods you’ve tried? Due to the complexity of my story, my mind gets boggled with all the different ways I could be outlining. I know I need to start over by restructuring the scenes, but the task is pretty daunting. I’d appreciate any ideas you might have on how to break things down into a useful outline format.

[This message has been edited by Elan (edited October 07, 2006).]

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Options:

Research the "Snowflake Method" on the web.

Look at using yWriter. (see the Software thread in this forum for a link)

Treeline http://www.bellz.org/treeline/
Treepad http://www.treepad.com/treepadfreeware/

[Note: for your purposes, look at yWriter FIRST]

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited October 07, 2006).]

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

Which method do YOU use, Mike? What are the advantages, disadvantages of the methods you've tried?

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

To date, for simple projects I've used outliners like Treepad and Treeline. For NaNo this year I am going to try yWriter instead. My reasons for doing so are that I want more than just an outliner; I want a project tool instead. yWriter will fulfill that function, I think, as well as letting me outline.

Before this I have also used MindManager 6 as an outliner. Thing is, MM is Windows (ugh) only and I am doing more and more of my work on a Linux-based computer. However, I also still do a lot on a Windows (ugh) machine. There is a somewhat tedious way to port yWriter to Linux, so I'm going to try doing that and keep my files on a pen drive for portbility.

TreePad has a Linux version as well.

Outliners:
Advantages are simplicity, quick learing curve, portability and flexibility. Disadvantages are lack of project management tools.

yWriter:
Includes the outliner but also has project management tools and other writing tools. Not as portable, as the others but does have some portability.

MindManager:
Advantages: Outliner on steroids, can be used to write in, can export to all MS Office (ugh) file formats, graphical interface.
Disadvantages: MS Windows (ugh) only. Not portable. Not really oriented to writing project management.

Spreadsheets:
Advantages: familiar interface, very flexible
Disadvantages: clunky and not adapted to text-based projects.

[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited October 07, 2006).]

Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :

I have a marble composition book with one page for each chapter. Of course, this is a outline I'm developing for this year's Nano. I made my first novel outline on my livejournal, just using the Roman numberal for chapter, letters, normal numbers, little letters...
Though I didn't get into little letters much.

Keep in mind that novel isn't finished yet.

If you have multiple points of view, I could see the colored index cards working for that.

Posted by sojoyful (Member # 2997) on :

I use several, depending on the project, but here are three that I've found very useful for the large novel I'm working on.

1.
In Excel, I create a timeline of events.
- First column: the dates (divided into quarter-years).
- Succeeding columns are assigned to one character each, showing their age at the time of the date in the first column.
- In the column following all the character columns, I list events, plot points, character developments, etc. at the years they occur.

For my novel, this has been *extremely* helpful, because the ages of the characters at particular times is important. This allows me to adjust each character's age individually (add or delete cells and poof!, their birthday changes), or see when the event is not possible as planned because there's no way for everybody to be the right age at the right time for things to work.

2.
Also in Excel (different worksheet), I'll list individual scenes. Then I color code them according to the plot or subplot that they address (main plot red, subplot 1 blue, subplot 2 yellow, etc.) Scenes that advance more than one plot get more than one color (obviously) and scenes that advance none get no color (also obviously). From this I can see which scenes do nothing and need to be fixed or removed. Also, if I see a huge chunk of red scenes all in a row, I know I need to spread that plot out more evenly. And if I see a long stretch where one color doesn't appear, I know that thread has been dropped somewhere and needs to be worked back in.

3.
This one can be done in Excel or Word (I use a 2-column table in Word). I start at the END of the story, and describe the last scene in, say, one or two sentences. Then I list what information, background, plot elements, character evolution, etc. had to come before this for it to make sense. I move backwards in the story, doing the same for all scenes. If an element that I've already listed for a later scene comes up again, I list it again.

After I've done the whole story this way, I start at the beginning of the story and go forward. For any given element listed, I delete it every time it's noted except for the first. When I'm done, I have a clear outline showing the latest possible moment in the story when each element can be introduced. If I haven't introduced it by then, I need to rewrite. If there's no way I can introduce it by then, something's wrong with my plan.

Hope this helps!

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited October 07, 2006).]

Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :

I'm also an excel girl; it has a lot more functionality than index cards, but gives you the same ability to break things down into granual components.

This year for nano I'm trying out yWriter, too.

Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :

I've found that for me personally, brainstorming on screen just isn't a good option. I have to physically scratch it out with pencil and paper. Additionally, even full size pages and trying to write chronoligical outlines is hampering.

The best thing that I've found is the notecard method, where you deliberately don't worry about arcs or placement or any other thing, just write out a flurry of ideas for character development, scenes, events, conversations, and everything and anything else that strikes your fancy, in any order. One card per idea. Then lay them all out and group them and see what happens. It makes it easy to spot holes where you need more plot, or places where you've got something that doesn't make sense. I then write more note cards or edit the ones I have, for a very basic outline. I still give myself permission to deviate from it while writing, but just knowing it's there helps me out a lot.

Posted by AeroB1033 (Member # 1956) on :

I don't exactly outline; I more or less write a fast, synopsis-like narrative of the entire story, including whatever details I think are relevant. It's like a sloppy, miniature version of the story.

I find this flows out far easier. Outlines are too structured and rigid for my taste and I don't feel like they leave me room to explore ideas as they arrive.

At the same time, I definitely feel that you should know where your story's going and what's going to happen in the meantime, so this solution provides a nice medium.

Posted by cll (Member # 3673) on :

Yellow Legal Pad

It's informal. I get my major plot points/action down, the beginning, the middle and the end. Everything else is character driven.

The bonus is that it travels with me and if an idea or change pops into my mind I can write it down immediately.

Posted by Mig (Member # 3318) on :

I like sojoyful’s advice, if only because it is very similar to the way I work. I keep an Excel spreadsheet in which I list every scene, with a column for each of the following: a brief description of the scene, POV character, and Word file the scene is in. I hadn’t thought of using color codes like sojoyful does, but I’m tempted to give that a try. The main advantage of an outline is that it lets you see a complex work at a glance. This is more helpful, and I think more necessary, the more complex your novel becomes.

I also keep a separate word document for each scene. My philosophy is not to rewrite until the first draft is done, so this is where I keep my notes on changes I need to do to each scene when the rewrite time rolls around. For example, as I’m writing my current scene, I realize that I needed to have inserted some element into an earlier scene. I don’t go back and rewrite the earlier scene, I just place a note to do so in this file.

Here’s a great article on writing a novel that includes advice on how to outline an in-progress novel using the spreadsheet method: http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/?p=398

Posted by djh (Member # 3826) on :

A less structured, more visual approach helps me. I use extra-sticky Post-it notes, color coded, on the wall behind my computer. If I need to review and mull over aspects of the novel, I have everything in my line of sight. As I run out of wall space at eye level, I move everything up so that the section of the novel I'm currently working on is in front of me. I can spot problems and rearrange easily as needed before I make revisions on the manuscript. I guess it all depends on how you work best...great suggestions from everybody.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

A little late here (I was on vacation and incommunicado all last week)---but I second (or third) the use of yellow legal pads. Or any paper that happens to be on hand.

Posted by LPMcGill (Member # 3923) on :

I basically do what Aero does in my Moleskine notebook that I take everywhere. Since I've started to gear up for the NaNoWriMo, I've plotted whenever I'm on the train or sitting around my apartment.

Posted by KaliAngelKat (Member # 4064) on :

I have an outline for my current fantasy WiP. Each chapter discription is a pararagraph or two long. Mainly listing the things that need to happen there.

I also have a Hero's Journey chart for the Main Character and her love interest.

I also have a paragraph write up for each character so I can keep track of details.