I am writing to build some knowledge in a new website I have produced. It is a pretty creative site where an evolving story is created by multiple people. Words are sold by me, and people get a chance for novel online advertising (direct link to their own website) or just the chance to participate in this internet story.
I am writing to you all as I thought you might have particular interest in either participating, or just looking. The website is called www.anovelmillion.com. In its first week the site had just under 9,000 hits (about 3,500 coming from NZ and Australia), and it has just made it into the top 100,000 sites by Alexa….the site is getting a lot of hits.
It is starting to get a bit of press coverage, and it looks as though there will be an article in Wellington’s biggest newspaper, The Dominion Post on Monday. If you would like to participate, it would probably be good to contact me, buy words, and get your link on the site before the newspaper goes out, as I’m sure a lot of people will look at the website then. I can be contacted at aditya@anovelmillion.com
quote:· Once you are contacted, it is your turn to become the author and decide the words you would like to publish on my website. If your entry is to be less than 1000 words/characters you will have 12 hours to choose your words, the color to surround the text, and submit payment along with the internet address you wish to be linked to. This 12 hour limit will be enforced, and if you are longer than this, you will be placed at the back of the queue.
· If you intend on writing more than 1000 words/characters you will be given at least 24 hours to choose your words and color, and potentially more if you intend on writing considerably more than 1000 words/characters. However, in these cases, you need to do 2 things: 1) You need to let me know of your intention, and 2) you need to submit down payment of at least US$1000 in the first 12 hours to confirm that you are indeed serious, and to be given the extra time allowance. This US$1000 contributes towards the total end cost of your entry, and any difference outstanding needs to be paid when you have decided on your words. If your entry consequently falls short of 1000 words/characters you will not be given a refund.
· I have the right to decide the amount of time people have to choose their words, and this may vary between people. This is due to some people wanting to write more, and also the fact that my chosen time period of 12 hours may not be appropriate when this website gets going…...I’ll know once the site is running and people are buying words.
If you can get people to pay you $1000 dollars for the privilege of writing a thousand words that you then get to sell, you must deserve the money.
I'm stupid. I'll write complete stories for myself.
Regards, Oliver
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Note that he's also claiming copyright on all the stories posted.
I think my $1 word will be "No."
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
I'm really impressed by the audacity of this one. I'm just wondering if our site got a couple of hundred bucks to host this person's post.
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
Beth, don't do that! Then he'll claim copyright on it and you'll never be able to use it again!
[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited July 08, 2006).]
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
Gee, my website gets between 20,000 and 30,000 hits a month, and you know what? Most of those hits are internet spiders, not individuals. I'd be curious, out of 9,000 measley hits a month, how many of those hits are actually unique viewers and not coming from the spiders?
Aditya, you will find that those of us here are serious writers, and consider a post like yours soliciting the fruits of OUR labors to financially benefit YOU are not going to yield a hell of a lot of return for you.
Other than saying: "Your offer is in poor taste. Boo on you."
Here's my critique: Melodramatic, sappy. I can't imagine anyone reading this without laughing.
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
Oh, but it's pretty funny as satire.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Did you look at the authors' web sites?
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
I think a better audience for this pitch is "people who want to advertize." It's not a particularly good venue for "people who want to write."
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
My mind boggles at this.
I think I'll give WRITERS BEWARE a heads-up.
I'm also tempted to delete this topic, or at least close it for now and delete it later.
Or would it serve as enough of a cautionary tale if I just leave it alone?
Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
Oh, let a few more people rail on it first. Then close it. Posted by Leigh (Member # 2901) on :
Who honestly has $1000 to give away to just some idiot who thinks 9000 hits a month is decent? I don't for sure. My money is my money and I'd rather just spend it on whatever I like As for the writing part, I'd rather just write the payment of the power bill my computer uses up, as even over a year I doubt it'd hit $1000.
Btw, the site actually does suck quite a bit. Even I could create a better website with my limited knowledge of HTML and Java, which I don't have any idea what to do
Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
Wow.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 3384) on :
If I were somehow inclined to waste $1000, I'd put a story on a website of my own, and use $1000 to have it marketed on google or in the local paper. I'm sure more than 9,000 people would see it for my money.
Posted by Neoindra (Member # 3422) on :
I’m sorry, maybe I’m just particularly slow today, but I just don’t get it. Why would anyone do this? Seriously, I don’t get it. P.S. my vote is to leave it up. Aspiring writers should know what’s out there and the reactions of other writers, that way if someone is thinking this might be a good way to launch a career they can read what other’s think about it, but I think you should send him a bill for his post.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I'm a little lost, too. "The ways of the Web are mysterious to me..." Though I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to leave a link---almost any link---up and active...
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
If you think of it as writing, you will never understand.
It's advertizing. The words are there not because they have any merit or even coherence - they're just a link to the advertizer's site.
pitching it to writers is a really really bad idea.
Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
heh heh heh, I wonder if, in the second draft, they cut a couple of words from your paragraph whether you get the money back.
We should buy just one word and make it 5,000,000 characters long, lets introduce a character named: Ixathatacolotamatubishainothighbuster....(add about 5,000,000 letters)...vangogogoch.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited July 09, 2006).]
Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
heh heh or a whole novel with no punctuation or spaces
Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
if this person was smart they would add a 'how to..." section to the site, get newbies writing and then paying to post... i feel so dirty ... Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :
quote:if this person was smart they would add a 'how to..." section to the site, get newbies writing and then paying to post... i feel so dirty ...
Actually... my husband sent me a link a couple of years ago to a website that did something similar. You had to buy a subscription in order to post your story for others to review. If I remember correctly, it was password-protected, though portions of the stories were available for public viewing... sort of like a teaser for the website.
The reason my husband sent the link was because they were having a contest... membership only if memory serves. I knew very little about writing and copyright at the time (not much more now), but I didn't like the idea of paying someone to post a story.
I'll try looking for it.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
It's not very similar. The idea of this site is you're buying advertizing space.
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
I don't think it's about advertising, though. That would have been smarter.
I think this guy actually believes that people will pay him to be part of an "historic event". At a buck a word, no less. That's what I pay really good technology ghost writers for completed projects that had lots of thought and revisions going into them.
Posted by Mig (Member # 3318) on :
My first reaction with the post was annoyance at this sleazy practice of using our community as a billboard. I'm a little surprised at what I'm not reading from the posts: That it is sleazy and offensive to use our Hatrack message boards to peddle this questionable business scheme.
Kathleen, I don't think the topic should be deleted. It should stay up as an example of how sleazy and disperate some people can be to make a buck. I can't say it enough: this is sleazy. Ok, one more time, S L E A Z Y.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
oh, it's totally advertising, Mr. House. He even explains somewhere how he ripped the idea off from that buy-a-pixel site. That he thinks he's going to have a salable book at the end just shows he's delusional.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I figured out what to do.
Do you like my change of the topic title?
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
Very nice compromise, Kathleen. I actually didn't even notice this until today, when the "BEWARE" was added -- now I'm afraid my head has jumped off my shoulderrs, spun around 360 degrees, and plopped back on.
In other words, what the *#@#?
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
Beth, I stand corrected. I mistook delusion for strategy. So sorry.
Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
There are people with way too much money on their hands. I could mug them for postage...
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Hmph. I was hoping to get a cut of the money, but I suppose that we've all had a few laughs....
You know what? I think I'd rather have a few bucks and laughs.
Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :
This is just another harmless internet fad. It started with the Million Dollar Homepage, which sold a million pixels at $1 per pixel and actually did make a million dollars.
There are others, some benefitting charities. The idea is to make a million dollars from people a few dollars at a time.
[This message has been edited by Doc Brown (edited July 12, 2006).]
[This message has been edited by Doc Brown (edited July 12, 2006).]
Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :
I guess the stipulation about the $1000 payment in advance bit is what makes it possibly seem evil.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I already give away thousands of dollars to undeserving people. They hide their names under the initials I.R.S.
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
Is it evil to take advantage of the stupidity of mankind? To be honest, I've never really felt sorry for anyone who got ripped off by those e-mails that said, "Give me your personal bank account information and I'll make you rich!" I mean, these scams aren't even very clever.
Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
Provided you think stupid people are less than human, no, it's not evil.
I tried to think of a clever, funny, witty, and less biting way to say that, but I didn't succeed. Granted, I didn't try very hard.
Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
Oh, it's evil to take advantage of people, even idiots. But it's hard to get angry at the scammers when you're dumbfounded that the poor fools actually fell for it.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
I don't take advantage of human stupidity. I have learned to enjoy it for it's own sake, though Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
I'll drink to that. Posted by Ray (Member # 2415) on :
Ditto. It's more fun that way. Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
I think stupid people are the epitome of humanity, actually. And I still don't feel sorry for them. I used to, but it hurt too much because it was just too much a part of life. So I stopped and now I feel better.
I find it immoral to take advantage of the stupidity of mankind, but not evil. Then again, that goes to my definition of evil, which is complicatd and probably best left for another time.
[This message has been edited by Christine (edited July 14, 2006).]
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
I keep thinking about that post I ust made and I thought I should add one thing: Most of the scams that I was thinking of when I wrote both posts were the ones that prey, not just on the stupidity of mankind, but on its greed as well. In my experience, most cons work this way. I do feel a little sorrier for people whose naivete and trust cause them to stumble into misfortune. (But even that would hurt if I dwelled on it too much.)
My husband had a boss a few years back who promsied him a raise and a bonus to get him to stay. When my husband agreed to stay on for at least another year, the man went back on his bargain and spent the money on a bigger house instead. Then he tried to trip up my husband's search for a new job by providing a (false) bad reference. Of course, none of these strategies were going to work, but he was both stupid and greedy, and when he fell for one of those dumbass internet scams (he gave away his bank account info) I pretty much thought he reeped what he sewed.
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
It is amazing to me how many people do really stupid and shortsighted things because of greed. But then that's why I have a day job . . .
We've had any number of cases where X did something good for Y with the understanding that X would receive part of the good fortune (either ownership of the company using the idea, or commissions or something) of course the agreement to share is never in writing or only obliquly referenced in emails. So Y makes a fortune and doesn't share (gee, who didn't see that coming other than X?). Lawsuits result. It most of the cases had Y just honored the agreement, X & Y would have made millions, as it turned out, they both ended up losers. Some have committed suicide, some have filed bankruptcy, some have gone to jail, some have destroyed their relationship with thier children. (BTW - we usually represent X).
There are times when I've felt very bad for X (70+ women swindled by thier son/son-in-law/daughter)(three separate matters) and sometimes not (businessmen who should have known better to document the deal). You can't shut the emphathy down for everyone who gets scammed without losing, IMO, some for your humanity.
Posted by LibbieMistretta (Member # 3496) on :
HAHHAHHAHHHAHAH!
Oh, man. How many things are wrong with this? Besides those points already detailed (most notably, who the hell would pay $1000 and write something for you so that you could "sell" it and own the copyright?), HOW, exactly, do you expect to sell this piece of tripe? The melodrama is suffocating. The ghost of Vladimir Nabokov is wishing he could come back to life and then die all over again because of what your contributing suckers wrote. Not only that, but the obnoxiously colored highlighting and text makes this even more unreadable than it would be in black and white.
I can see this "novel" maybe making the top 100 list of a gothy teenager with a Geocities page covered in animated, flaming skull .gifs who listens to Bauhaus while cutting himself shallowly and being mad at his parents, but not many other audiences.
WHOO-EEE, 9,000 hits in a month! You're really onto something there, son! Quit your day job and devote your life to the worst idea to hit the world of writing since Piers Anthony picked up a pen!
Posted by Louiseoneal (Member # 3494) on :
I worry because I've seen internet fads hit the bookstores before (ninjas are really cool). I could see this on a shelf someday, touted as a group project where people with too much money and not enough sense write the worst story ever concocted. And the 'authors' will reap ridicule, and the person who came up with this scheme will make money. Sad. I hope it doesn't happen, but I could see it.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
I can't.
How many of these "everyone writes a few words" things have you seen on various sites? They never get very far, and that the primary point is ADVERTISING further reduces the odds of either coherence or completion.
Posted by Rilnian (Member # 3506) on :
Everyone run for the hills! At first I thought it was a cool idea, until I realized you had to pay....
I would like to start something similar, minus the cost for words, and the advertisement. I think it would be fun to talk with others and create a story using at least forty plus people. Of course, it would never work, but a scaled down version sounds fun. I wonder if this is something they do at a writers workshop, all chip in for a story.
Well! And the tainted "sleaze" of our literary community builds with a disgust I find it hard to supress!
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
it is done *on just about every writer's site in the universe.* It always fails after maybe 20-40 posts.
Updated to add: there are some RPGs out there that use this model more or less effectively, because they have a dedicated group of people and involved moderators who keep things moving and moving in the right direction - but this kind of random "everyone write a few words and we'll have a brilliant novel!" thing never gets anywhere much.
[This message has been edited by Beth (edited July 14, 2006).]
Posted by Lord Darkstorm (Member # 1610) on :
This does boggle the mind a bit. Why on earth would anyone pay that much for a flash sized bit...when for less you can get a vanity press to actually print a whole novel. Neither of which are worth much, but at least you get more ego boost for your buck...
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
I keep trying to think of something funny to say, but nothing I can say could top the scheme itself.
Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :
Well, it is easy to read it as a $1000 minimum but actually $1000 is the cap if you want to write over 1000 words. I think. Still is silly in my opinion, and most importantly violates the principle that money flows to the author in professional writing.
I did read some interesting self-published work about Mormons with Autism the other day. Actually, it was mostly Mormon parents with Autistic children sharing their experiences. I think the existence of "vanity press" for such an undertaking is valuable. The idea that only things that can be marketed profitably should be published no longer seems like the right idea.
Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :
pooka, do you remember the title? I would be very interested in reading that book. I'd prefer it if you emailed me so this thread will stay on the topic of idiots and/or victims.
Thanks.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Once again, it's not about writing. You're paying for advertising space.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Now you're just bumping the thread. Um, just like me Posted by apeiron (Member # 2565) on :
I remember years ago Hatrack had a section where people would write bits to a story, then vote on which bit would be tacked on to the story. It was designed as a writing exercise, but never got very far. IMO, because everyone had a separate idea where the story should lead and then after a round of voting, they couldn't continue with that vision.
Isn't that always the problem with collaborative efforts? I'd like to chat with authors who made a collaborative effort work, because I wonder how it could be pulled off. I imagine it would be very difficult without one writer basically leading the project. I've only ever tried once, and we didn't make it past chapter one.
Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :
Wasn't there someone through here last year or the year before with a similar plan? If I remember right, you would be contracted to write one chapter and then have the copyright to that one chapter.
I recall it only because the author of the thread spent a good bit of time telling us how we would be out of business once his idea caught on. (Because a novel written by two dozen people has to be better than one written by one person.) It also sticks with me that there was a small fight with the author.
I wonder what happened to that?
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Yeah, I remember that person. It wasn't as straightforward as 1 chapter per person; it was more like a bunch of people write different scenes or parts of scenes and then a committee picks the best bits and spackles them together. Sort of an open source approach to novelwriting.
He posted the first 13 of the project in F&F, too, as I recall. Something about a corpse hanging under a bride in Venice or something?
Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :
quote:Something about a corpse hanging under a bride in Venice or something?
I just had to preserve this for posterior.
P.S. Oh, it's about marketing? How weird. See, I just spent a couple days with my Marxist relatives and their Adbuster's posters, and that gives me worse jibblies than the original idea.
[This message has been edited by pooka (edited July 16, 2006).]
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
BRIDGE! BRIDGE!
oops.
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
Oh this is silly, and sad.
As to the person who asked about collaboration: Tracy Hickman is one of the most successfull collaborators. http://p098.ezboard.com/bdragonhearth You could go here and ask him your specific questions. All I can say is go into it with all eyes open.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
The virtues of prose written by committee.
Posted by oliverhouse (Member # 3432) on :
quote:The virtues of prose written by committee.
Gets me to thinking: if a camel is a horse designed by committee, what is a novel designed by committee?
Posted by trousercuit (Member # 3235) on :
A really lumpy book that spits?
Lulu fodder?
Posted by Sara Genge (Member # 3468) on :
I hate it that they're using this forum to advertise this kind of crap. I may not be a good writer, but I've decided that if my stuff isn't good enough to publish I can live without publishing. I never submit to contests that have "reading fees" because I find them sleazy, but that's just me. I never submit to a non-paying market because the fact that I get payed for a story tells me that market is good enough to survive darwinian capitalism, ie, somebody reads their stuff. I might submit to a non-paying market if I really liked what they published and they had a good proven circulation. It's not about the money, after all, it costs me a mint to cash a check in dollars (I don't live in the US), it's about having some kind of proof that I'm not submiting to a vanity press or to somebody's blog.
[This message has been edited by Sara Genge (edited July 19, 2006).]
And the tainted "sleaze" of our literary community builds with a disgust I find it hard to supress!