Hatrack River Writers Workshop: The Never-Ending Search For the Better Phrase

This is topic The Never-Ending Search For the Better Phrase in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Ever have one of those days?

Well, I've got this idea for two-thirds of a story---the beginning and end, but not the middle, which I've got to brood on some more before I start writing anything down---but that's not the point of this.

I've got an opening sentence...kind of. "I was talking to this guy at Chloe-and-Ed's party."

But I got to thinking---sometimes a terrible habit---and wondered whether it should be "I talked to this guy," which makes it feel more immediate.

Or maybe I should write it third-person. "He talked / He was talking..." Or "[name of guy] talked..."

I'm pretty much married to the opening: This guy talks to this guy at a party. Everything (except the accursedly vague middle) flows from that. I'd like to open with something like what I've written---but I'm not married to that. I could open with the conversation begun...have another person (Chloe or Ed) introduce them...have the main guy describe the guy and go over to him.

Any opinions?

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

If you say that I/he/she/it WAS talking gives the story more of a sense of starting in the present and launching off from now...I've seen this past perfect tense overused, but it can set the tone.

Then again, "talked" is perfectly fine too.

Then there are alternatives to the verb "talk"

From Roget's Thesaurus:

" 1. To engage in spoken exchange: chat, confabulate, converse 1, discourse, speak. Informal: confab, visit. See words
2. To direct speech to: address, speak. See words
3. To express oneself in speech: speak, verbalize, vocalize. Idioms: open one's mouth (or lips), put in (or into) words, wag one's tongue. See words
4. To put into words: articulate, communicate, convey, declare, express, say, state, tell, utter 1, vent, verbalize, vocalize, voice. Idiom: give tongue (or vent) (or voice) to. See words
5. To engage in or spread gossip: blab, gossip, noise, rumor, tattle, tittle-tattle, whisper. Idioms: tell tales, tell tales out of school. See words
6. To meet and exchange views to reach a decision: advise, confer, consult, deliberate, parley. Informal: powwow. See collect, meet, words
7. To give incriminating information about others, especially to the authorities: inform, tattle, tip 3 (off). Informal: fink. Slang: rat, sing, snitch, squeal, stool. Idiom: blow the whistle. See knowledge, law
"

Many of these words are more specific than "talk" and may help you say what you mean beter.

Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :

It depends on whether you wish to elaborate on the conversation or start the story after the conversation.

I was talking - allows you to elaborate on the conversation. The story starts mid conversation.

I talked to - The story starts after the conversation, triggered by the conversation somehow.

Now, can you defend your choice to go with first person?

[This message has been edited by pantros (edited April 25, 2006).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

This line wants a lot of context. It may not be the best choice for an opening line in the first place, especially in first person.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Oh, definitely. But I don't really want to lay the entire idea out here until I get a handle on it. I'm just looking for angles on how to start it...how to phrase and anything on how to bump into somebody at a party. (Maybe I'll put up the First Thirteen on the Fragments and Feedback Forum, when I actually get around to writing something down.)

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

This may end up being bad advice, but maybe you're overthinking the beginning?

Yes, the beginning is very important and yes the rest of the story flows from the beginning. However, sometimes, the only way I've been able to figure out how the beginning should be written is to sit down and write it without worrying about phrasing or hooks or anything else. Just try to tell the story for a few pages. Sometimes I'll finish the entire opening scene before I figure out what I'm trying to focus on.

And then I'll go back and change POV or tweak/rearrange/rewrite/cut out phrases.

Just a thought.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

Oh, definitely that, too...but after locking up on the "I talked / I was talking" end of it, I realized it might be of some technical interest to the board denizens.

I'm sure I'll write it sometime soon...I've got vacation time coming up and once I get some rest I'll be able to do something with it in the time I hope to have on my hands...

Posted by pooka (Member # 1738) on :

Why not just start with a line of dialogue?

"This party sucks"

"Is that shirt actually purple?"

"So I was talking to this guy at a party." I mean, if you want to have a relaxed sounding narrator, go wide baby.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I don't understand the appeal of opening with a line of dialog, I really don't.

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 3384) on :

If you're going to start with dialog, I want it to be something that instantly hooks me, makes me start asking questions, makes me wonder what's going on.

If your first line is "I was talking to someone about something" that's plain boring to me. Either start back in the party, when that was happening, or start with something else, and insert that information later. Or just get down to business and skip ahead a few sentences in the dialog when something exciting is actually being discussed.

Is it really that important that we know the speaker was discussing something at someone's party a few days ago? If so, maybe the party is the place to start. If not, then don't tell us about it at all, or at least not now.

Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :

I like "So I was talking to this guy at a party"...somehow, the more casual approach eluded me.