I'm planning on applying for Bootcamp and am going crazy waiting for the link to go up. So while I am fretting, I'd like to put my writing sample together. For those of you have applied before, does the sample have to be a finished story or can it be something you have just started working on? Does it make any difference? Guess I'm not sure if I want to hear Autumnmuse's advice after her experience last year!
Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :
It doesn't have to be a finished story. Makes no difference since he'll never see/know about the rest of it.
Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :
I beg to differ. Didn't autumnmuse say that he asked for the rest of her story? And then she had to write it in an extreme hurry? talk about pressure...
Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :
Ha! Okay. "Never" might be extreme. Do a find and replace with "almost never."
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
My sample was the beginning of a short story that I never finished -- in part because I decided it was part of a novel I have yet to write.
The sample is one page. The first page. So, you can be like me and only write that page if you want. Or you can complete the story. Either way is fine.
Kickle, if you don't want to hear from me just pretend someone else wrote that
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
The previous years, was it one single-spaced, double-spaced page, or were there no requirements?
Silver, who's also hesitating on going to Bootcamp (long story that involves somebody's offer to pay for my plane ticket)
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
is Boot Camp on the east coast this year? Or do I get to hook up with Silver for dinner?
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Silver, don't worry about what the deal is, apply and let the somebody pay for your ticket! Who needs a soul or a first born child?
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited March 03, 2006).]
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
As I look through the packet of all the accepted first pages, mine was about the shortest--roughly the first 13 lines. Lengths ranged from the first 13 to a very full page of single-spaced text. He handed out versions that were somewhat longer, too. Most likely, that is all anyone will see.
The important thing to remember is that this is an auditioned workshop and people are turned away. I did notice that he increased the posted enrollment over last year by two people.
Autumnmuse's experience was the exception. Don't worry about that happening to you, just send in the best opening you have.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
lol, Kickle, I just understood what you meant.
Actually, there are no strings attached (well, not that I know of ) It's just that I'd have to skip one week of school, and I'd need to know whether I'd be missing anything
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Thanks everyone, that really helped me decide what I wanted to send. Now, I'll just wait for the link. My understanding is that genre is not important at all, is that right?
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Kickle, something occurred to me while I was thinking about this thread. I know you've already made up your mind, but can I point out that since you are a finalist in WOTF (not a thing given to everyone), this tends to prove you're a very good writer (not just by my standards but by those of the industry )So, if I were you, I'd have the rest of the story along just in case.
But, in the end, it's your call.
For the other question, I don't think genre is important, or he would have mentioned it, but I'm not sure.
(edited because I saw the other question).
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited March 03, 2006).]
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
One of the reasons I'm obsessing on this is because I still haven't heard back from WOTF and I have to give my mind something else to think about. Waiting is a huge part of being a writer, but one of the things I am very bad at. Good point about having the story completed and probably the only reason I wouldn't have at least a first draft done would be because the story didn't work.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Scott doesn't care what genre you write. He is looking for evidence that you are in the right zone.; that you are not too early in your writing career to be helped, nor too advanced to be helped. You're sending a blood sample to the lab, my friend.
[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited March 03, 2006).]
Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :
So when does the post usually go up? And to echo Beth: Is it going to be on the east coast this year?
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
The post says Virginia.
Erm...now is probably not the time for me to say I have no idea where Virginia is...
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Virginia is on the Atlantic side of the US.
Utah, the other location, and where I am, is way over to the left, in the mountainy bit before you hit the Pacific ocean.
Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :
Well, that gives me a year to save up. You can't get much farther west then me, well, unless you go to Hawaii. Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
On the other hand, east is (marginally) closer to where I am Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
it'll add a few hours onto your travel time, yeah. but if you come to Utah you can see ME, so clearly it is worth it.
[This message has been edited by Beth (edited March 04, 2006).]
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
um, true. I'll have to ponder this Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
If you come to Utah, you can also see me, and maybe even djvdakota, if she's available. There are others here as well, so we could have a big party.
Anything to keep from letting Beth monopolize your time.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
quote:Utah, the other location, and where I am, is way over to the left
Which is kind of strange, if you think about it. Over on the left you have Utah, which is largely to the right.
Of course, it's to my north.
[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited March 04, 2006).]
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Spaceman, are you confusing geography with politics?
Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :
its a bad pun.
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
If Utah is the middle, that puts my home state of Vermont way over on the right--guess we're talking geography. At any rate, Silver I am way closer to you then those Utah people. Lets just worry about applying and hope for the best. But I would watch it if I were you, once you're on the east coast, those westerners probably send their minions to kidnap you.
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited March 04, 2006).]
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
quote:Spaceman, are you confusing geography with politics?
I'm not confusing them, I'm confounding them.
[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited March 04, 2006).]
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
quote:If you come to Utah, you can also see me, and maybe even djvdakota, if she's available. There are others here as well, so we could have a big party.
Count me in--for the party at least.I won't be applying for the workshop at least for next year---with two sons on LDS missions at the same time, funds are going to be extremely low.
[This message has been edited by Smaug (edited March 05, 2006).]
Posted by Dude (Member # 1957) on :
Forget about Utah--it's a desert. Most of the west is for that matter, unless you are talking the northwest. Come on over to the Virginia mountains where bootcamp is to be held this year--it is beautiful country. I go camping up in that area every year. Also, you are right--it is closer for you. A 6 to 8 hour airplane ride, probably flying into Dulles in Washington, D.C. The place where bootcamp is being held is only about an hour's drive southwest of the Dulles airport.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Hum...Have I mentioned I can't drive? Well, I have my driving licence, but you need to have had it for more than a year before they'll let you rent car... If I come, it's through greyhound/train/taxi/whatever
The form is up. I'm still wondering whether to apply.
Posted by rcorporon (Member # 2879) on :
I wish that there was something like Bootcamp in Japan.
I feel so left out
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Silver, thanks for mentioning the link is up--I had missed it. If I end up getting in, I'll be flying and renting a car--and would be happy to have a rider. However I'll probably try to avoid Washington if I can.
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited March 08, 2006).]
Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :
Silver, if my opinion counts for anything, I say go for it. At least apply. I know lots of people who went and not one of them felt it was a waste of money in any way. All of them say they can see it as a turning point in their careers. And you said you've got someone to help with your ticket? Sounds perfect. I think it will be hugely beneficial.
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
I second autumnmuse's comment. I didn't do boot camp, but I did OSC's class in writing popular fiction at SVU, which I gather is the same deal. I now have *two* sales; and I learned a lot about POV, and beginnings. (I'd learned the how to generate ideas for stories quickly at a previous workshop -- with OSC.)
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
A big HUMPH to Dude. Have you ever BEEN to Utah, my friend? You make it sound like a solid square of sand dunes and sage brush!
The east is green, true. But green can be monotonous. Here in Utah we have a full spectrum of landscape colors and you CANNOT beat the backdrop of the Rocky Mountains!
Good luck with your application Kickle, and everyone else who's considering. It's well worth it.
[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited March 14, 2006).]
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Oh go, go, go!
Your brain will explode. In a good way. I'm definitely a stronger writer post-BootCamp than pre-BootCamp.
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
I dunno, Dakota... I've seen the rockies... I still think the Cascade Mountains and the Columbia River Gorge has it beat.
Sadly, there is no Bootcamp out here, beyond the military variety.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited March 14, 2006).]
Posted by Dude (Member # 1957) on :
Dakota,
Yep, I've been to Utah, and Idaho, and Nevada, and Arizona, and Oregon, and...Actually I figured it out one time, I've been in every state in the union. I've done more than my share of road trips, but I've actually lived in Washington, Idaho, New Mexico, and California. Most of the west is either high or low desert except when you hit the coast or get into the mountains. Personally I like the Pacific Northwest and the mountain region between New Mexico and Colorado.
I was just messing with you westies in the bunch. There is some pretty country out there. I'll be going out this summer to visit family and taking the kids to the Grand Canyon.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I've applied. Don't know if I should have, but never mind. The sample is in the mail. Now I'll try to go on normally with my life Posted by 'Graff (Member # 2648) on :
Just a question about procedure---if we apply and fail to be admitted, can we then apply another year? Also, if we aren't sure that we can attend because of time/money constraints, and then we apply anyway, does that application become binding? What happens if you're accepted and something comes up?
I'd love to know. I'm excited about maybe-kinda-sometime-soon applying.
----------- Wellington
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
'Graff, as far as I know you can reapply until your face turns blue. And your application is in no way binding. The only thing that binds you is when you pay the full fee and have reserved your hotel. Even then you can walk away and kiss your moolah goodbye if you want.
But who would?!?
If I remember correctly, you can withdraw and get a certain amount of your tuition back up to a point. But if you withdraw the day before, you wouldn't be able to. A similar policy to any college tuition policy.
Also, keep in mind that even if you don't make it into the six-day camp, you can still attend the 2-day workshop. Even that much is of value.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Dude, I drove around the Grand Canyon to get to bootcamp in Utah last year. That big hole in the ground added at least two hours to the trip. Orem was much greener than Phoenix, but then, much of Arizona was on fire while I was at bootcamp.
The Uncle Orson part is still well worth attending. The first two days is when Scott passes along his knowledge. The rest of the week is when you are forced to teach yourself. You learn in both parts, but you learn different skills and in different ways.
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Sent my writing sample and application in today. Now I can stop fretting. Anyone else besides Silver applying or planning on going to the first two days?
Posted by kings_falcon (Member # 3261) on :
Kickle,
I am thinking of applying. Now that I have all the deadlines passed for a major case I was working on, I can work on the short story. My biggest problem is that short stories rarely end up being "short" for me. I am planning on using the need to write as a really good excuse to hide from my mother-in-law this weekend.
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Kings falcon, I know what you mean about stories growing For the application your story doesn't have to be done and polished, you only need to send the first page. Think of it this way, Boot Camp won't be held in the east again until 2008.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
You actually need a little more than the first page written by the time you get there, but you only need the first page for the audition.
Posted by Thieftess (Member # 1683) on :
My audition piece was the prologue of a novel I had written the beginning of...oh...five or six times and never finished. But I thought that bit was pretty good, so I sent it in. (The rough part was when all the Boot Campers were sat up at the front of the class, and a couple non-Campers slid in behind us after lunch complaining about how bad the story beginnings were. Mine especially. My heart was in my throat. I kept writing little notes in the margins, reminding myself to not throw up.)
True, it wasn't perfect. But OSC saw potential. His confidence in me led to my own confidence -- confidence that 3 years later has garnered 3 (going on four, hopefully) major book deals with major publishers.
If you want it bad enough, you can make it happen. (Which pretty much goes for everything, not just writing.) Don't be discouraged. Just do it.
And best of luck, guys.
~Alethea
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I didn't know you were Thieftess.
Posted by Thieftess (Member # 1683) on :
Oui, c'est moi. Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :
If you are just sending the first page, how does that work out as a format? I've looked around at relevant posts a bit, and do I have to allocate space for my name and title both? What about Margins? Would it be okay to go with 10 pt?
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
franc li, if you look back though this thread and follow Eric Stone's link, you will see the page he submitted. Also somewhere on his site is a link to how it physically looked. That should answer your questions. And I believe that Spaceman and others who have applied did touched on some of your questions in this thread as well.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I used Eric James Stone's formatting for my sample, and so far no one has complained . I figure if it got him into Bootcamp it's good enough for me.
I would have used standard MS format with Courier, but with the first page I'd chosen (=a fair bit of dialogue), this ended up looking ridiculously slight.
Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :
I did look at that, but it didn't actually answer my questions.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I put in title and name at the top. 1-inch margins, times new roman size 12, and double-spaced. But I don't think it matters that much.
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
I did what Silver did. I picked a story I wanted to use, decided how much space I needed to include everything I wanted to and still have it look nice. I put the title, then my name centered and then the sample-- double spaced, 12pt, New Times ( because with that font I could squeeze a few more sentences in). Even though, with the sample and the application, it was only two pages I used a large envelope so I did not have to fold it.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Ah well...I didn't have any large enveloppes, so I had to fold. Hope he doesn't mind too much. Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
If I saw your postmark, I'd be thinking that anyone willing to travel across an ocean to take a workshop deserves to get in.
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited March 29, 2006).]
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
Did OSC give required parameters for formatting this year? He didn't last year. I don't think he ever does.
Some people sent in a page that was crammed with text, single-spaced, top of the page to bottom. One page of text. There really weren't that many who submitted in standard short-story, page-one format (thirteen lines, starting halfway down the page).
Later he allowed those of us who HAD submitted in standard format to send more. I didn't. I figure if my thirteen lines was enough to get me in, it was enough to serve me while there. Also, I think he probably doesn't request standard format simply so it gives him a prime opportunity to discuss what standard format IS.
So if you really feel like you want to, send in a whole page, single spaced, top to bottom.
And good luck.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I got in on a standard MS format first 13 lines. That's why I had to send more later (for a package that he hands out).
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
When is the application deadline? And where is the information on the class? Time, place, cost.
Posted by pjp (Member # 3211) on :
arriki: The info is linked to from the main page... http://www.hatrack.com/ (though I didn't see daily start/end times, just begin/end dates)
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
The schedule is given with the material they send after you pay. (last year it included a copy of Characters and Viewpoints.)
If memory serves, I think we started at 8:00, broke for lunch, went went late, or went to dinner and came back and worked until 9:00 or later. Bootcamp is not a vacation.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Hum, I figured anything that styles itself as "bootcamp" is probably not going to be a vacation.
Silver, who has vivid memories of her (military) bootcamp deep in the mountains.
Posted by pjp (Member # 3211) on :
Depends. Information Technology related "bootcamps" tend to be weeklong "9-5" type deals. Still a lot of information to process in that amount of time.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Ah. I obviously don't know all the connotations of that word Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
"Boot" as used in "boot camp" and in IT actually has some congruency, though the etymologies are entirely different (well, both derive from reference to boots, I suppose).
So, what base?
Posted by pjp (Member # 3211) on :
I went to Ft. Jackson, SC (Army).
Can anyone who has been to the Utah boot camp offer more info on where it is held and lodging? The SVU location requires use of their facilities, which doesn't sound appealing to me. Plus, I'm in Colorado, so it'd be cheaper to get to the UT location.
Reading through past discussions of boot camps, it sounds very daunting. I typically take a long time to work out ideas. Reading about having only hours is very intimidating.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I went to Barcelonnette, in the French Alps. But it probably doesn't mean much to you. Suffice to say it's situated at a high altitude, and that the military believe long mountain walks do wonder for your body.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
PJP, you stay at the living arrangements of your choice in Utah. It's held at he small college in Orem called Utah Valley State College, or something like that. I stayed at the hotel across the street from the campus becaus it was the cheapest. The one they recommended was not.
Posted by pjp (Member # 3211) on :
Thanks, Spaceman. Looks like it'd be ~10.5hr drive.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
I drove to Orem from Phoenix. It's about 10 hours due to that big hole I had to drive around.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Hah, Ft. "Oppression Starts Here", eh?
Yeah, the military derivation of "boot" comes from actual boots. Not fanciful boots that do the work for you.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Am I the only one biting her nails? The answers for Bootcamp are supposed to be in by tomorrow... Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
My nails are bloody stumps. I doubled checked, it says "by" tomorrow. But your tomorrow comes quicker than mine. Are we really the only two Hatrackers who applied?
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
There were a couple of others who mentioned the possibility, but I don't know whether they've actually applied.
I keep on worrying. But I'll be sleeping through most of your afternoon, so I won't get to worry during that time
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited April 09, 2006).]
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Yeh! I'm in.
Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
Congratulations. Knock'em dead. Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
Congrats, Kickle. Prepare to work your tail off. I hope it changes your life.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I'm in too. Posted by hoptoad (Member # 2145) on :
Oh my oh my. Well done! Congratulations.
Have a blast for the rest of us non-mainland-usa-hatrackers.
Posted by Thieftess (Member # 1683) on :
Congrats, newbies!
~Alethea
Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :
Congrats Silver and it will be great to meet you. .
Posted by Minister (Member # 2213) on :
Congrats to both of you. Have loads of fun and learn lots of writing stuff.
Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :
Congrats, guys! I'm really happy for you.
Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
) It's just that I'd have to skip one week of school, and I'd need to know whether I'd be missing anything 
