Okay, Here's an interesting question.Does anyone know of any books/writers who have mixed Sci-Fi and Fanatsy? Moreover, have they done it succesfully?I've been working on a project that is amix but I need some research.Obviously videogames are great at this unusual feat.Chrono Trigger/Cross, Pretty much all Final Fantasy,Legend of Zelda to an extent,etc.However these works tend to be style over substance,and I need help with the substance.Basically I'm asking for stories and ideas about how to mix the genres!
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
The Pern books by Anne McCaffrey are set on a planet which was colonized by humans but have a fantasy feel to them.
"The True Game" by Tepper is about fantasy archetypes, but there is some SF behind (a nuclear bomb at one point, if I remember correctly).
Posted by Ezekiel (Member # 3264) on :
I love the Pern books, So I've realized this,Piers Anthony is a "mixer" to, but I need help with plausibility. How could magic exist in a world with Air ships( Final Fantasy) Does anyone have any advice on that? Or I've invented a beast of burden species called The Jelran, Why would my characters in my world use them if there is air travel?
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Mr. Clarkes words are one of the foundations of modern speculative fiction. Your magic can always be an even more advanced technology. Herbert's Dune comes to mind.
But you can blend magic and sci-fi. Alien worlds might be inhabited by species with capabilities to control magics and/or they may resemble fantastic creatures of terran mythology.
There will always be people who cannot afford the luxuries of high speed travel. Why do most migrant workers walk from Mexico to Northern California when they could fly? Because they can't afford to fly or even take the bus. Even the legal green card workers still have to walk sometimes.
Varying classes could also cause some people to choose flying when others are not permitted so they use beasts of burdon. Perhaps the magic wielders are the upper class. Maybe the technology which allows flight cannot be harnessed to a level of control to allow for agricultural uses. Every tried plowing a field with a F-16?
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
Always remember the rules for using magic in fiction. Magic must have a price. Maybe its more expensive than jet fuel.
Posted by rstegman (Member # 3233) on :
in World War 1, they were still using beasts of burden with air planes and cars, mainly because production of machinery did not meet demand.
All one has to do is have it where they have not come up with internal combustion engines yet. Steam power is still the main power. Air ships might use steam engines to run the propellars.
Then the only non beast power would be with steam trains and steam ships.
Posted by autumnmuse (Member # 2136) on :
Robert Silverburg's Majipoor series is a good blend of the two. It's a sci fi setting with aliens, but it has a distinctly fantasy feel.
(And there's my own novel, which is the same scenario as Pern: humans colonized, did some genetic manipulation, but have forgotten their roots and live in a very low-tech society.)
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
Sounds interesting. And I agree with Pantros,Technology and magic sort of go hand in hand. The more we discover that's 'new' the more we find out that's 'old'.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Roger Zelazny made a career out of blending science fiction and fantasy. Lord Of Light. Jack Of Shadows. I'd even argue the Chronicles of Amber series. Very tight, consistent rules with limits, prices, and checks and balances. In a similar vein, check out Phillip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers series, or his Riverworld series.
Blending science fiction and fantasy, is a tradition that, at least, stretches all the way back to Edgar Rice Burroughs, up into the 40's with Henry Kuttner, and into today. Of course, pre-50's science fiction and science fantasy is almost unreadable by today's standard. Zelazny took this form to new heights.
Posted by dreadlord (Member # 2913) on :
I have noticed that the real mixture of fantasy and Sci-Fi is actually a movie. Star Wars. anyone agree? Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
Yes--The Force, and technology.
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
medichloriates, Star wars is 100% technology as of Ep I.
<<ducks the hail of plastic lightsabers>>
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
So do we classify religion in the fantasy category? I mean in Star Wars they refer to the Force as an ancient religion in Episodes 4-6. Or is religion classified as something completely different? In Heinlein's Job, there are derigibles and fancy cars, yet it's the bet for one man's soul between God and Satan. So is that sci-fi or fantasy?
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
Its only in the past twenty years that there has really been any effort to distinguish SCI_FI from FANTASY. In my mind, those efforts are foolish anyway. All sci-fi is fantastic and all fantasy assumes different rules of science.
Posted by pantros (Member # 3237) on :
Heinlens J.O.B. is SCI-FI though I use the term inclusive of fantasy.
Posted by dckafka (Member # 3258) on :
Andre Norton mixed Fantasy and SF all the time. So does Marion Zimmer Bradley. The list goes on and on. I thing Zelazny (as mentioned above) was probably the smoothest practitioner. Recommend his "Lords of Light".
Hmmm. That's the second time I've recommended that book today.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 3267) on :
The key in my mind not only for this mixing of the genres, but for either genre by itself (as has already been mentioned) is being careful to limit the use of technology/magic by having it cost a high price.
In terms of technology, this can literally be a high price because there isn't a large industry, the resources are scarce, there is a monopoly by the ruling elite, there is a stigma placed on the use of technology because of some past events etc...
In terms of magic, perhaps it just takes years upon years of intense study to be able to have any significant power, perhaps using it ages you, perhaps it requires exotic components, perhaps it is regulated again by some higher force, perhaps it's only present in 0.00000001% of the populous, perhaps it's still largely frightening and mythic to the general populous.
you just have to come up with your own explanation as it fits with your storyline.
My reccomendations on sources: A Canticle for Leibowitz (Walter Miller): post apocalyptic, technology has become mystified Dungeons and Dragons: Forgotten Realms lore (primarily magic with a little technology ~gunpowder) Warhammer 40000: again, technology has become an arcane art/cult and there is a decent amount of "magic" as well
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I'll add in my voice for "Lord of Light". Best book Zelaany has ever writen.
Posted by Smaug (Member # 2807) on :
C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy has elements of scifi, fantasy, and horror. Really I think there's a lot of blending going on. What matters is does what's taking place make sense in the world that's been created--and even more importantly, is it a good story? I've written western's that relied upon fantastical elements and I'm not the first. Louis L'Amour's Haunted Mesa and before that The Californios had supernatural elements as major aspects of those stories. There are others. SciFi/Fantasy blends are natural as was mentioned above.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
If one could come up with an adequate definition of science fiction that *excluded* fantasy...but so many science fictional concepts *are* fantasy. Faster-than-light travel...time travel...alternate histories...
Probably that's why I read and enjoy both equally.
A point of order: when Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote his first "Mars" and "Tarzan" books, there was no such thing as science fiction---the term wasn't coined until 1929.
Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
But Robert, it's pretty much convention that you can write hard SF with one or two bits of bolognium, provided the rest of the universe acts as expected. Removing that allowance, ie, calling anything that isn't currently possible fantasy, pretty much kills SF because you remove the ability to extrapolate technological advances. It turns hard SF into techno thriller.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
That's probably why some prefer the term "speculative fiction"...so you can emphasize the speculation, deemphasize the "science," and still keep the "SF" initials. (Not me---"science fiction" has more emotional content for me.)
Many works of SF---including some mentioned above---often have someone travel to a planet by some means, but then the action takes place on that planet, which might as well be, say, Middle Earth for the little that technology like faster-than-light travel will intrude on their world. Are they SF? Fantasy? Some kind of hybrid?
Posted by TruHero (Member # 1766) on :
I guess that is where the word "FICTION" would come into play. If it were real, it might be called Science fact, or just science. None of these "theories" have been proven, at least not yet. So it might as well be called fantasy at that point, in my opinion.
I know that there are those people who would argue the point, and that is fine, "hard" sci-fi fans seem to be fairly rabid about some sliver of fact or mathematical theory to back up what might be possible.
I guess it comes down to rationalization. I might rationalize magic or some underlying power but I don't believe I could. Although, faith could be considered a type of magic. The sick have been healed, and the dead raised using that method, or so I have been told. Although, I've never seen it . I have never seen FTL travel either, but I am told it might work as well. Perhaps it comes down to beliveing in numbers or a feeling.
Anyway, back to the original question. There is a good example of magic and technology in a series written by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman called "The Darksword Trilogy". It has a world of magic struggling to keep itself apart from tecnology. A pretty good read from what I can remember. It has one of my all time favorite characters in it, Simkin.
[This message has been edited by TruHero (edited February 26, 2006).]
Posted by thexmedic (Member # 2844) on :
For a more fantasy bent I'd check out China Mieville. Basically it's very cool Steampunk where magic becomes more scientific and science becomes more magical.
The whole New Weird movement is trying to dissolve genre barriers though. For a list of authors check out:
Isn't "Lord of Light" the one that includes the magnificent line "Those are my entrails and I will not have them misread by a poseur"? I can't remember; I don't own it and haven't read it for a while. But so much of his stuff - even the flawed stuff, like Roadmarks, or the almost incomprehensible Eye of Cat - contains pure magic.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
That may be Creatures of Light and Darkness. But I'm not sure.
[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited February 27, 2006).]
