Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Mentor: Is She Trying to Change Me?

This is topic Mentor: Is She Trying to Change Me? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002828

Posted by Clove (Member # 3125) on :

.

[This message has been edited by Clove (edited December 18, 2009).]

Posted by J (Member # 2197) on :

All critiquers have biases. If you went back in time and managed to persuade Hemingway to critique you, he would probably tell you that you were too wordy. If you went back further and got Dickens, he would tell you that you're too terse.

Critiquing is incredibly valuable, but it's no substitute for your own judgment. Take critiques that seem good and wise, reject those with which you disagree, go on your way and write your story.

If your relationship with your mentor is such that you feel obligated to incorporate all of her critiques, or if you resent her instruction, you should probably think long and hard about the whole situation.

Posted by pixydust (Member # 2311) on :

quote:
I've read one of her books, and I can clearly see what her "style" is. It's not necessarily the greatest work I've read, to put it mildly. I don't particularly *like* her writing. At some points, it's good. At others, it's mediocre. Just my opinion.

So why are you using her? You should find someone who you can look up to and admire to be your mentor. Otherwise your wasting their time and your money.

Posted by Kickle (Member # 1934) on :

You might want to post on F&F and ask for feedback on a chapter she has critiqued. Then you can compare her suggestions to others. If you find a majority of the critiques agree with her, then maybe she isn't miss leading you. What can you lose?

Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :

This is the reason that I came here. I asked one of my teachers to critique my book "The Blood That Binds" and got responses like "How would you feel if you were confronted with your manuscript" and then " You should ask yourself how you feel about that" and "Your writing is too childish for th subject matter."

So I'm here getting opinions and critiques from people who do this and have the same drive as I do. Look, if she can't critique you, ask us to read.

Posted by Matt Lust (Member # 3031) on :

Wow that teacher knows too much about rogerian psychotheraphy and that is a bad thing for even psychotherapists in my mind.

Rogerian therapy methods are based on trying to push the patient to discover things for themselves.

For a good fictional example think Deanna Troi from Star Trekl TNG

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

Critique is as unique as writing... each person comes at it in their own way.

What I look for in my critiques is this:
Is there something that makes me go: "Huh?"

Does the action/narrative flow in a logical manner?
Are the decisions/actions of the characters understandable?
Is the story clear as it unfolds?
Is the millieu explained well enough to get a sense of the world?
Does the writer show the character's actions AND emotions? Do you have a glimpse into their thought process? Does it make sense?
Are there holes in the plot?

Technically, I'm also looking for these things:
Is the POV straight?
Is the writing overburdened with florid prose?
Basic grammar and punctuation... we all miss things, and I flag for them. But if the writing is rife with it, I would proof a page or two and toss it back with a request to clean it up.

I ONLY offer suggestions on how to rewrite if I think the author needs a demonstration of what I mean.

Style belongs to the writer. If it's written in a style or voice I don't like, I usually admit that right up front so the writer can take that into consideration.

You might consider this: If your mentor is only a mediocre writer, why would you think she would do any better as a critiquer? If she "got" a lot of the facets of excellent writing, her writing would show.

My advice is to seek out critique from people who's writing you admire. Volunteering to read when a request is posted in F&F gives you a chance to see the various writing styles and skill levels. Once you've critiqued, you might be able to ask someone to reciprocate.

Posted by Lord Darkstorm (Member # 1610) on :

Style is something that comes out from what you learn and how you feel the words should come out. I find many things can shift how my 'style' comes out when I write. Since my goal is to create stories that people want to read and enjoy what I do...style is a matter of what works. But unless you choose to make an effort to write in a particular way, then your style will come out as you learn.

I think the real question is do you find her advice valuable? If you step back after a few weeks and look at what she said and your story, does it make sense? The point is that if she is helping you improve your writing, then it might be worth sticking with. If the only thing you are getting is that your writing doesn't suit her...then I would think you might want to look elsewhere.

There are quite a few good sites that will help provide you with some good feedback. Some will be very helpful, while others wont. That's just what we have to learn about readers, they are all different.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Two points. First, you need to learn from the writers that you enjoy most as a reader. If you learn from writers whose writing you don't enjoy, you won't like the kind of thing you'll learn to write. Even if that's what's popular, you'll always have to depend on someone else's opinion of whether your writing is any good.

The converse of that is that a good teacher will naturally try to make you write more the way that teacher tends to write. So that isn't really a problem.

My other point is that the essential aspect of writing isn't style, it's communication. When the text says what you want it to say and not something else, that's when you've found your own voice as a writer. Maybe that's what some people call style, perhaps not.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Clove, could you tell us how you came to be working with this writer? Is it something you've paid for, so you aren't in a hurry to back out of the arrangement?

As others have said, you do not have to use anything any critiquer offers you.

In fact, the only time you may feel you have to make changes in your story that you may not want to make is when an editor has offered to pay you for your work and that pay is contingent on your making the changes. (And OSC will tell you that in many cases you don't even have to make those changes. If you can figure out why the editor has asked for the changes, and make changes that you like instead that will also solve the problem, the editor will usually be fine with that.)

So, if this mentor is not really helping you, then maybe you can cancel your arrangement with her.

If the mentor has given you some feedback that you find helpful, go ahead and stay with her, but only use the feedback that she gives you that really is helpful.

You really, really truly don't have to listen to anything anyone else tells you about your writing. The only things you might consider listening to are the things that look like they will help you improve your work in the way that you want it improved.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Also, the only response you need to give a critiquer after that critiquer has given you feedback is "thank you."

(In some workshops, that's the only response you are allowed to give.)