in my local drugstore.(Do they still call them drug stores?) Anyway, I noticed that the younger writers(Young as in newly published, not yet seasoned) start with a gripper in the first line. Their thoughts are quick and to the point.The well-known writers have tremendously long prologues and almost as long first paragraphs. Their sentences are wordy, not quite to the point, and meander you down a path. Someone explain it to me. Is it a rite of passage thing? You can't meander until you've flown at 90 miles an hour? And was that a better subject line?
Posted by Leaf II (Member # 2924) on :
No... I think it is the whole "THE FIRST 5 LINES OF YOUR STORY MUST BE INTERESTING AND TO THE POINT OR YOU'RE NOT GETTING PUBLISHED!!" movement that is sweeping the nation's writing advicers. It's what I've heard a lot, it's what you've probably heard too. Makes sense to me that all the noobs had to have these really precise beginings, and then u have writers like Stephen King (whom I love the most) and he's got like 50 pages of 'set up/intro' (boring) before anything relevant happens. That's just me though. What does everyone else think? -leaf
Posted by rcorporon (Member # 2879) on :
I would agree Leaf.
Go check out F&F sometime. Almost all of the advice for the first 13 are "We don't know enough!" or "I'm not hooked, make it more interesting." or "Not enough info here."
I think that people have the idea that, if something isn't killed/exploded/or action-oriented, its not good enough to sell.
I've tried to avoid this in my current WIP, and I try to get the readers to slide into my story, much like putting on a nice comfy sweater with my frist chapter.
Then stuff starts to explode .
Edit to add: In Canada we call them "pharmacies."
[This message has been edited by rcorporon (edited January 29, 2006).]
Posted by RedSakana (Member # 3127) on :
I think well known writers don't have to grip people (editors or readers) as much with the beginning because they have a track record--people are more willing to slog through a slow beginning from an established author because they assume, based on the author's other work, that it will pick up and get good eventually.
With a new writer, they have to grip first the editor (and later the reader) right from the opening lines because they don't have a reputation to fall back on.
And yes, that subject line was more informative because it lets people know that the topic is about opening paragraphs
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Reading a bunch of openings like that is really a good exercise.
Which ones made you want to keep reading?
This "does the first thirteen really count" conversation comes up about once a month. What I think is that the opening needs to get my attention and convince me that the author has an interesting story to tell and can tell it well. That doesn't mean you need to explode a 747 in the first sentence; it means you need to be INTERESTING and give me a reason to want to keep reading.
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
None of them made me want to keep reading, but the most memorable was Stephen King's. And I can't even remember the title.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
None of them? That's really interesting. Do you have any theories about why? (maybe you have a small-press sensibility and rarely like mainstream bestsellers, maybe you were looking in a genre you don't really like, maybe drugstores only sell awful books, etc.)
Just curious.
If you didn't like any of them, they may not be the best models for you.
Posted by arriki (Member # 3079) on :
I do that myself sometimes. I go into a bookstore and pretend to "read slush." I put aside all the books with openings that catch my attention. I do usually read past 13 lines, but not too far. My time is valuable, if only to me.
It's interesting what does catch me. It is not always some big action. The quiet conversation in DeMille's THE GENERAL'S DAUGHTER caught me. Not a big event, just two people talking, but not talking about the murder. It was the conversation, two people talking with each other and I'm learning about their relationship. The absurdity of telephones falling from the sky caught me in SINGULARITY SKY by what's his name. Stross?
I think it is the professional feel to the text that hooks me a lot of times. I get the feel I can trust this author (I look on the cover, oh, it's so-and-so, I've read stuff by him/her before and it was good. I'll buy this book.) to write well and from the blurb, the story sounds interesting. I want both, you know -- a good story that is well-written.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited January 30, 2006).]
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
With books, I read more than the first 13. I tried the same exercise with books in my local supplier, and I got to the same result. I think the book equivalent of the 1st 13 is more like 1-3 chapters.
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
I didn't actually do it because I was going to buy one. I wanted to know what these authors had that I don't. Why they are published and I am not. What do they're stories say that grabbed the attention of a publisher.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Keep in mind they sold their books on the strength of three chapters and a synopsis, not merely on the 1st 13. It's not the same. The 1st 13 is for short stories, and magazine publishers don't operate on the same basis as book publishers.
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
I did keep that in mind, don't get me wrong, Some of them I couldn't read any more.
Posted by Robert Nowall (Member # 2764) on :
I've never liked the idea of just writing three chapters and an outline. It would probably fit my method and current output...but I just don't want to be caught in a situation where somebody says, "Hey, man, I like this, send the rest to me," and then I'll have to write it all out then and there before he forgets.
I suppose later, after I'm a success, it would work better...
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 1655) on :
I believe that the idea is to send them the first three chapters and an outline of your already completed novel.
Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :
Am I the only one for whom this thread title evoked "I'm in love with every boy!"
And so as not to be totally off topic: I'm a jacket reader. It never would have occured to me to read the first page of a book before becoming familiar with this workshop.
[This message has been edited by franc li (edited January 30, 2006).]
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
I stopped believing in jackets after reading the last volume of Feist's Magician series (A darkness at Sethanon, I think it was). The guy who wrote the backcover for the UK version seemed to have had an attack of inspiration that did not involve the actual novel...He got the characters wrong, the plot wrong...Basically, it was the blurb for another novel with some of the character names in common. I resolved thereafter to choose my books either by reading reviews, or by reading the first page, and a randomly chosen page in the middle. I worked out quite early on that the beginning was where the writer would put all the fireworks in the hope of grabbing you, and that the writing I would be reading for most of the book was in the middle. Guess that makes me a heavy cynic Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
quote:With books, I read more than the first 13. I tried the same exercise with books in my local supplier, and I got to the same result. I think the book equivalent of the 1st 13 is more like 1-3 chapters.
However, we can only allow the first 13 lines from each of those three chapters.
Posted by Paul-girtbooks (Member # 2799) on :
quote:I believe that the idea is to send them the first three chapters and an outline of your already completed novel.
Remember, though, that in the first instance you send an agent/editor a query letter, and THEN, if your letter catches their interest, they request the first 50 pgs. and a synopsis. AND THEN, if that grabs them, they'll ask for the whole manuscript.
Absolutely NEVER send an agent/editor a portion + outline cold. They won't read it, ever. They'll most likely not even bother to go to the effort of placing it in the return envelope you provided, being as they never asked you to send it in the first place. They'll just toss it into the paper recycle basket.
So, in that respect, probably the most important thing you'll ever write - from a business point of view - is a query letter. One page. That's all you get. Doesn't matter whether it's a 70,000 word novel or a half-a-million word behemoth. One page is all you get to sell your idea.
It help to think of that query letter as a job interview: you believe you have the skills and experience for that job - but the interviewer doesn't. So you have to sell yourself, prove yourself, in order to land that job.
Getting an agent or editor is no different. Harder, in fact, because you won't have the opportunity to sit with them face-to-face. So therefore that query letter is YOU, and it doesn't matter how good your book is, if you screw up that query letter/job interview you're busted.
You can do the whole oh-frightful-torurous-muse! routine WHILST you're writing/revising. But once it's done - once you've taken that training course or gotten that degree - it's BUSINESS. Look out your best suit, polish those shoes -
- and write/give the best damn query letter/interview you can!
DON'T FORGET: there are half-a-gazillion others out there vying for that job: in the UK alone 75,000 manuscripts are submitted each year to agents/editors. The US population is 5 times that of the UK. That's 375,000 book manuscripts coming from across the whole of North America, most of then descending on a tiny little island called Manhattan.
FACT: more people want to be writers than want to be popstars.
Good luck with that interview!
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
And I've asked this before but what if I have no experience? I know that I have the drive, I know that I have some talent and once I figure it out I can get it right. I have no excuses for my life to the point, but I have not been published in ANY real fashion. I haven't had time to take classes. I did take your standard stuff in College, I don't have degree, I have a c-section scar and an 8 eight year old(Now). All I have to show for myself is that I wrote in highschool and my English teacher kept some of it. After that, I just didn't have time. You know the drill--dying mother,getting married, having children, moving for husband,MIL from hell, anyway, my point is how do I overcome that obstacle?
[This message has been edited by Susannaj4 (edited February 01, 2006).]
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Write. Learn by critting others. Submit. After you're rejected, turn the story around and send it somewhere else. Be patient.
You don't need experience, you just need practice.
(edited to add something)
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited February 01, 2006).]
Posted by Susannaj4 (Member # 3189) on :
Makes for an awfully short letter, thought. lol. Thanks Silver.
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