Case in point: I wrote a very short (500 word) piece making fun of vampires. I hate vampirse and think the entire concept is ludicrous, especially in the versions of the vampire system in which you create a vampire every time you feed on blood...there'd be nothing but vampires! So I wrote that scenario, thinking it would be, at least, mildly amusing, but most of the responses I got back went on about how vampires were overdone or how the story didn't really work because who were the vampires supposed to feed on? (Apparently thinking I hda missed a gaping logic hole instead of putting it there intentionally.)
But apparently I have something in me that can do humor, because twice now on perfectly serious pieces I've gotten responses suggesting they thought it was a comedy and that I should step up the humor a bit.
Sooooo....how do you do funny? What's the secret? What makes people laugh? Or if it doesn't come naturally to me, should I just forget about it?
For humor at a level where you want to make people laugh, it is just like any other story device. You set it up, allude to it indirectly then have the character trigger it. Ideally it is the character's personality traits that create the humor.
Sometimes you can pull it off with just one line expressed in a surprising way. A quiet character reacting loudly, etc.. but without violating something we already know about the character. Miko is a Knight of a secluded order whom the protagonist met and convinced to accompany him on his quest to clear the king's name. We establish Miko as a sober, serious contemplative man. When Miko sees a woman with an exposed naval ring, he might have his eyes go wide and mutter "Yeah, baby!" This only works if its the first time in the story that Miko encounters a sparsly dressed woman. We find out a little later that Miko's mother put him in the monastary to try to cure him of a lecherous adolescence.
Slapstick is also good, especially when a panic situation arises. Jumping out of the pilot seat and rushing to the cockpit door, struggling to push it open, when it opens inward.
For good examples of humor in writing, Douglas Adams has no equal. Robert Aspirin(sp) is also a great resource.
Here's how I think the Vampires work. If you've ever been to an Amway presentation, you know that by any extension of logic everyone should be in Amway already. But since they aren't, there has to be some other explanation. Now I don't know exactly how to make this humorous, but if you can somehow draw a parallel between how not everyone is in Amway and not everyone is a vampire, I think there could be some humor potential. Does your piece start specifically with the improbable fact?
I mean, my personal sense of why Amway hasn't taken over the entire American economy is because most people sign up just to get someone to stop talking. Of those who really are interested, a large proportion wake up the morning after.
There are those who make fabulous sums of money, who keep the myth alive. But I think those are harder to explain than the all the normal people.
*** Well, at least in my world. Also, Amway changed its name to something else. So I guess Amway tycoons also don't exist anymore.
Slapstick, on the other hand, isn't funny to me at all. It stopped being funny when I was aabout 10. It just doesn't do anything for me.
I've read everything Douglas Adams wrote and thought it was all quite funny. Doesn't mean I can replicate it, though. I think timing has something to do with it...
recently i wrote up a humorous episode with my son, Jean Pierre. early on it there was forecasting that set the stage, then when the punch came through, it evoked an immeidate emotional reaction based upon the reader's experiences.
Slapstick will reach the most people. Some of us intellectuals, especially those of us with too much testosterone, still find this funny, too.
Douglas Adams works mostly in short absurdity for his humor. Most people never even notice the long farsical paradoxes in his stories.
Satire is an inside joke meant for a target audience. To the wrong audience it can be mean or just plain stupid. To satirize SF/Fantasy you would have to pick a well known tale ro concept and then go overboard with it. For a single concept satire, carrying this beyond a short story would be difficult. For a multi concept satire, you are looking, more likely, at parody. But Star Trek Parodies are a dime-a-dozen if not cheaper and more common.
Plot humor, Setup, allude, pop, is not so hard, its like any other mechanism.
fantasy:
Hero hears tale of wondrous sword,
A minor character mentions it in passing four chapters later
Hero gets sword to help him slay "The Great Evil".
Sci-fi:
Starfox knows how to wire his fighter engine to accelerate beyond his ships max speed.
Starfox gets reprimanded for messing with his ships wiring.
A starship needs to make a trip in half the time, Starfox shows the ship engineer his trick, ships engineer applies idea to starship.
humor:
Janice and Chuckie had a rivalry six years ago at the science fair, chuckie won.
Janice sees billboards of Chuckies tech invention company. Janice really hates him.
Janice recieves an invitation to work for a secret organizaion on top secret technology.
He arrives to find chuckie, who always looked up to Janice for inspriation but has lived the last 6 years off of one idea because he saw Janice as his muse.
FOr humor take it to extremes. Subtle Will only work with fans who have experienced your humor and know where to look for it.
I tried to read the Terry Pratchett book that is based (loosely) on MACBETH (can't recall the name--indicative of what an impression it made on me) because friends had told me how hilarious it is.
I managed to get through the first chapter or so, noticing where Pratchett was being "funny" without making me laugh once, and then I quit reading.
pantros, I didn't see how any of your three scenarios were intended to be funny. Sorry.
Survivor makes me laugh out loud (not every time, but a lot of the time), and I'm sure others don't even "get" his wit. (For that matter, he may not even intend to be witty. Sorry about that, if that's the case, Survivor.)
Hmm.
That may be part of it. Some people laugh at slapstick (not me). Some people laugh at puns (I love good ones). Some people laugh at absurdities (it depends). Some people laugh at witticisms, as opposed to outright jokes (I love certain expressions of wit). Some people laugh at satire and parody (again, it depends). Some people laugh at black humor (I tend to).
So not only are there different tastes in humor, but there are different kinds of humor.
My philosophy is that appreciating someone else's sense of humor is a necessary and sufficient condition of appreciating that someone. (Which means it goes both ways--if you like the person, you probably share some tastes in humor, and if you share some tastes in humor, you probably like the person. I still like my friends who think Pratchett is hilarous, but we don't share that particular taste in humor. <shrug> )
Too much off the top of my head without putting in all the little details that made it funny to me. So much for trying to be economic.
Too much stuff trying to get out and my fingers just can't keep up.
One of my favorite characters on that show was a big, brawny, crude and crass mercenary named Jayne. He's always loaded down with guns and grenades. In the recently released movie, the characters are assessing a particularly dire situation. One says, "We won't get out of here alive." Jayne, ever the optimist, says, "I might!"
*sigh* I suppose this is another case of "You had to be there."
Find a friend who has the Firefly series on DVD, if you are reading this, I am 99% certain you will love the show.
Oh, and see the Serenity movie. The movie, um, displays an excellent example of humor mixed with drama but also shows how to make a story both stand on its own for a new audience while continuing to feed devoted fans what they are looking for. Yeah, thats why you should see it, for the lessons to be learned. See it tonight, Thurdays are great nights to see movies, no lines at the concession stand, good seats available...
Edit: added:
Orson Scott Card loved this movie.
[This message has been edited by pantros (edited October 20, 2005).]
But mostly I'm just thinking of making people laugh in person, not in writing, so maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges. As far as written humor, I personally think that anything written by Dave Barry is pretty hilarious. I'm also a fan of dry, satirical humor, such as The Onion (www.theonion.com) Just my 2 cents.
His co-reporters gave him good advice. "Next time you see Bill O'Reilly, just curl up in a fetal position and play 'dead'."
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited October 20, 2005).]
I will say that ever since I started watching that show I'm more in tune with what news pieces can be satirized. I'll be watching the national news or reading something on line and wonder if John Stewart might use it later because it could make for some great jokes.
I still can't come up with the jokes on my own very often. I came up with one very similiar to one Lewis Black came up with either yesterday or the day before when he went on about the Catholic Church trying to figure out which priests were gay...Because it's so important whether they're not having sex with a man or a woman. I laughed and thought, "Hey, that was my idea." Trouble is, Lewis Black has the voice and the presence. I wonder how well it would work in written form.
I think my favorite bit of humor from Firefly is the episode for, whatever reason, Jayne doesn't think River and Simon are coming back and he's looking through their belongings for anything of valuable: "Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."
I was dying of laughter the first time I watched that episode. It still makes me chuckle just thinking about the way he said it.
My favorite Firefly scene was in Jaynestown, with the interaction between Book, River, and later, Zoe. River freaked out because Book had his hair down (HUGE and white and crazy) instead of in its normal ponytail. So she's hiding in a cranny of the ship saying, "Too much snow on the roof will cause the ceiling to CAVE IN! His brains are in terrible danger!!!!"
It's my favorite line in the series.
The rest of the scene is hilarious, too. Actually, that whole episode. Actually, the whole series.
Yeah, you definitely have to see Firefly to get some good humor! Oh, and good stories too!
Just posting to say, I hate vampires too.
Maybe we should write a story about how all people become vampires except just one and he is suddenly the evil monster trying to kill them all.
Oh, and just to add: don't like dragons either, especially vampire dragons.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited October 20, 2005).]
quote:
Slapstick, on the other hand, isn't funny to me at all. It stopped being funny when I was aabout 10. It just doesn't do anything for me.
This is the very definition of the difference between men and women. Hey, Mo!
//
I wish you guys could see the evolving story thread in the 2005 Uncle Orson area.
Soembody started a story about some guy waking up (yes), then he looks out at the mountains. THe next guy posts a segment that says that he's next to a river, and he's looking for the source of the river. The next guy says that the river has turned a shade of crimson, and was hard to see because of the fog, and smells really terrible.
Setup complete. I couldn't help myself. Here is (paraphrased) what I added:
Egad! This must be the Red River Valley! And the source of the river is up ahead, it's Ed, the singing cowboy, and man does his singing stink!
The Marlboro man pulled out a cigarette, only to discover his lighter was out of fluid, so he rode up to Ed, the singing cowboy, and said, "Buddy, can I have a light? I need to keep this river shrouded in smoke."
Or somethign to that effect. Sometimes comedy is just jumping on an opportunity. Now, not all people will find that funny, but it worked in context because all the pieces were laid out for me by other people, and it fit together very well.
(edited to add a bunch of babbling)
[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited October 20, 2005).]
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(For that matter, he may not even intend to be witty. Sorry about that, if that's the case, Survivor.)
Eh, like I said. It isn't about my intentions, it's about whether you're laughing with me or at me 
We all do funny things. Having a sense of humor is being able to predict which people will find what funny, and signaling to those people that you're being funny on purpose. Does it always happen by intent? No, many people can do this without any conscious effort. My brother is great at doing something funny, realizing it if funny before anyone else has time to laugh, and signaling that he is also aware that it is funny and thus giving everyone permission to laugh with him.
He's also good at deliberately and spontaneously doing things just to be funny. Like when he came home from his mission, we all met him at the airport. When EDIT (a niece) showed him her giant stuffed Barney, he seized it and without the slightest hesitation threw it down into the luggage carousel's innards. It was deliciously shocking, yet after only a moment's reflection we all realized that it would come back out soon enough. We made him do it again for the camera, and it lost something (but it also gained something from Sam's sheepish "this time they're making me do it" grin).
I think that his ability to easily do such things on purpose developed from his initially unconscious impulse to sense when people were going to laugh at something he'd done.
So what does this have to do with writing? Easy. First, you have to know when people are going to laugh at something. Then you have to figure out ways of hinting that you're smiling too. I remember the vampire story. It was funny, but for the wrong reasons. For one thing, you didn't do any vampire research, because you hate vampire stories too much to ever read them, and it showed. A person trying to satirize a genre despite total ignorance of it is funny...just the wrong kind of funny. Also, the "smart" character was dumb, but not in the ways you intended him to be dumb. He spotted the problems you'd spotted, but couldn't see any of the solutions that most vampire afficionados already know about, because you didn't know about those solutions. Dramatic irony only works if the author is clearly aware of the irony, otherwise it encourages disrespect for the author. That came about because you violated the fundamental rule to "write what you know".
The heart of being funny? You have to be funny. The difference between people laughing at you as opposed to with you isn't what they laugh at, it is whether you are laughing at the same thing. In successful humor, they're still all laughing at you, but they know (or at least imagine) that you are laughing with them.
You have to laugh at yourself a little. Not at your own joke, that never helps. Yourself. When you hint that you're laughing at yourself, you give people permission to laugh without feeling like evil people.
There is also cruel humor. I'm not going to give a lecture on that, because there's already too much of it in the world and I like to pretend that I'm not as evil as I pretend to be
[This message has been edited by Survivor (edited October 21, 2005).]
We're laughing NEAR you.
"The house isn't laughing at you, it's laughing with you."
Also, it's a horrible but true fact that in our culture men are expected to be funny, and women are not. There are notable exceptions, but overwhelmingly its a male trait.
Like Ann Coulter. Is she trying to be funny? Are there people who think she is funny?
[This message has been edited by franc li (edited October 22, 2005).]
Women tend to find cruel humor more natural. See, men compete directly and bond using informal sociality, part of their biological heritage. Women compete socially and bond directly, part of their own biological heritage.
Like how men won't ask for help and feel like you should only offer help to someone that clearly doesn't need it. It's bizzare and irrational, but that's just how things are. Women, on the other hand, have a lot of trouble being jocular with each other outside of the closest relationships.
So Ann Coulter is being funny, just in deadly earnest Those of us with the cruel sense of humor get it, even when we don't think it's "funny".
If she wrote: By creating a nonspecific "right to privacy," Griswold v. Connecticut led like night into day to the famed "constitutional right" to partial birth abortion.
There'd be no humor there. Just a normal statement. But:
"By creating a nonspecific "right to privacy," Griswold v. Connecticut led like night into day to the famed "constitutional right" to stick a fork in a baby's head."
Now there's some humor, albeit dark humor in this particular instance. Humor works well when based on truth. And Ann Coulter is a pro.
She’s also intelligent, which helps increase the humor when she uses the mundane to make a point. For qualifying female public safety officers on strength requirements, she writes, “Another study I've devised involves asking a woman to open a jar of pickles.”
Whether you agree with her politics or not, that’s funny. After all, even a liberal would laugh if Dave Barry wrote it.
The comment about asking a woman to open a jar of pickles is funny, though.
And, lest anyone not get it, I do not think sticking babies in the head with a fork -- or scissors or other medical instruments -- is funny. I believe it is infanticide. And so does Ann Coulter.
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited October 23, 2005).]
Like how dropping a piano on a guy is funnier than just a flowerpot.
You ever hear the story about the woman that worked at an abortion clinic for a while, until the day the fetus came out and it was still alive? So the doctor hands her this tiny little squirming pink thing and tells her to chop it to pieces and flush it down the sink. Well of course she balks, hiding behind the fact that it isn't her job to do something like that. So instead she gets to watch him do it. So she quits.
The thing that kills me about that is, what did she think he was doing in there?
Of course, humor is pretty subjective. I'm sure most people don't find that story quite as funny as I did. But sometimes that can be part of the joke, neh?
It's guaranteed to make anyone funnier--but not necessarily funny.
quote:
Whether you agree with her politics or not, that’s funny. After all, even a liberal would laugh if Dave Barry wrote it.
Then again, my in-laws don't find They Might be Giants funny. And they own 3 copies of "Ever After". So funniness is clearly a subjective thing. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I've never seen "Holy Grail" all the way through. I have managed to see and be offended by the farting angels each time I tried to watch it.
I've known a few stand-ups who are convinced that to be funny, you have to be irreverant. Make fun, tear apart, and offend everyone and everything equally and you will get a laugh. Sometimes that is funny, other times it's just stupid.
Comic timing is difficult to develop, but I think it can be developed.
I don't write much that is intentionally humourous. When I do, it often comes across as being forced and then it just falls flat because I tried too hard. Other times, I'll do something dry and glib, and hits the right people the right way.
Being able to identify things that are potentially humourous is one step. Finding a way to communicate that humour is another. I don't know what is availble down in the states as far as stand-up on T.V., but up here there is tons to watch. I can turn on the comedy network any day of the week and watch "Comedy Now!", "Just For Laughs: Comedy Festival", "Just For Laughs: Gags", "Comedy at Club 54" and any other number of stand-up specials. The common thread, often the comics will talk about real things. Experiences everyone has gone through. They find the basic truth in something and then find a way to exagerate it.
The other thing that is important about stand-up, people are prepared to laugh at it. People watching a comedian are expecting to see/hear something funny. Because the expectation is already there, they are more likely to see the humour. In writing humour, if you can signal that something is supposed to be funny, before it happens, then you are more likely to get the laugh.
The story about the woman in the abortion clinic is humorous in a 'Duh!' sort of way. Which, like the fork comment, brings out the fact that something can be humorous but not funny. I'll go out on a limb and say, though, that anything funny is automatically humorous. The fork thing is humorous, but not funny. The pickle thing is both.
quote:
The pickles thing would be hilarious if Dave Barry wrote it. But with Ann Coulter, I can never tell if she's being serious or not.
Although, can you picture a growling drill sergeant administering the pickle test? To me, you gotta love it. 
Humor is subjective, of course. I've heard a number of people rave about the funniness of The Princess Bride, but the movie did nothing for me. Now each time I watch a forgotten Disney movie called The North Avenue Irregulars, I break up at the scene in which Cloris Leachman breaks her fingernails.
quote:
In writing humour, if you can signal that something is supposed to be funny, before it happens, then you are more likely to get the laugh.
The thing is, the bursting effect he got was by keeping everyone from laughing for just those few extra seconds. I think that the important thing is that you signal that it's time to laugh before the audience begins laughing, not necessarily before the humor occurs.
Incidentally, it also worked with the theme of the talk because right at that moment, we all understood the poor slob who threw that frozen turkey. Unforgivable...but we understood. Hinkley is the man.
Anyway, I think that FL is right that humor is often contextual. Dave Barry says something, we expect it to be funny, because it's Dave Barry. Ann Coltier says stuff...and we know darn well that she isn't just kidding around. And yet, President Hinkley wasn't kidding around either, he was speaking of very serious matters indeed. He got us to laugh, not just at our judgemental nature, or our sinful nature, or even our inability to laugh, but all three at the same time.
We're laughing at you...but when you laugh with us, we're laughing at ourselves. And that is the most powerful kind of humor.