You may remember the MC of Northern Exposure: Dr. Joel Fleischmann. Everything had to be his way; Alaskans were annoying because they disagreed with him; everything was inadequate.
But I liked him, and I cared about what happened to him.
Why?
Same for his love interest, Maggie. Totally anal. I liked her. Why?
Using stuff from Character & Viewpoint: Joel suffers. Yes, but it's just that he didn't get to live where he wanted. Waah. OK, what else? Maybe it's that in the first 30 minutes of the pilot, we saw him being reasonable, before he fell apart. But I think I'd have liked him even if I'd first tuned in in the second show.
Reason I'm doing this, of course, is that I like this kind of jerk character, and I'm afraid that my loveable jerk characters aren't conveying the "loveable" part.
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Show the lovable parts through how the other characters treat him. If he's a lovable jerk, they'll treat him as they would a lovable jerk. He has to have a context in which his lovable side can be exposed; use your other characters to create that context.
Posted by Varishta (Member # 2789) on :
It was because, despite being a self-centered jerk, Dr. Fleischmann actually cared about people -- even if he didn't admit it.
(Oh, who am I kidding? I watched him because he was so gosh-darned cute when he got all helpless and frustrated!)
Posted by Guy Koehler (Member # 2758) on :
I agree that it is necessary to show others reacting to someone in order for them to be likeable; in effect, we like them because others do or are at least tolerant to them.
However, Joel and Maggie were both handsome, and in all primate cultures, handsome individuals automatically move to the front of the line.
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
A jerk character, to be loveable, must have SOME redeeming qualities. I recall the TV show "Earth 2" which I loved. (Sadly, not enough other viewers loved it.) There was a character on that show who was the weasly, self-centered, selfish (and sometimes dangerous) one of the group. He had a beautiful wife, and you always expected him to be callous and/or abusive to her. But his redeeming quality was that he truly, deeply, loved his wife. In these moments of vulnerability you got to see a glimpse of the frightened person underneath and you developed empathy for him. The joy, from a plot standpoint, is that you never knew what to expect from him. Would he behave like a jerk? Or would his underlying humanity surface from time to time? He was a great character and one I've tried to keep in mind as I've written some of my "bad guys."
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
Regarding the Alaska thing... my cousin is married to an Alaska Bush Pilot and has spent time on the North Slopes. She has confirmed for me that the show 'Northern Exposure' was merely a realistic view of life in Alaska. She tells me the male to female ratio in Alaska is 10 to 1, making it good trolling grounds for single women. However, there is a saying in Alaska about all those available men: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
This is really helpful. I think I'll ask myself, for each loveable jerk character, "What's the reason for liking him?" And put the answer on page 1.
For one, I get to use the "loves his wife" thing (but I have to introduce her quickly). For another, maybe it can be that he knows he's a jerk.
Posted by Beth (Member # 2192) on :
Also, Maggie and Joel were just sort of annoying, rather than totally awful people - it's not like they were out torturing kittens or something.
Another annoying character is the boss on The Office. He's just an awful awful person, but there's something almost touching about his delusions - you just know how incredibly insecure he is underneath it all, so ultimately he's pathetic rather than simply obnoxious.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Making a jerk lovable is easy.
You just show why.
We all act like jerks sometimes. Most of us don't do it on purpose, but we do have reasons. Like a guy that gets nervous and puts his foot in his mouth whenever he's talking to an attractive woman, particularly if she seems to like him back. So he says idiotic things, then hides in the bathroom, and finally panics and climbs out the window rather than face her again.
That's incredibly jerky, but kinda sweet, don'cha think?
Or you have a guy that acts like a jerk on purpose because he wants everyone else to think he's just a jerk when really he's an interstellar criminal (The Stainless Steel Rat). We don't think that he's sweet for doing that, but it makes his character much more interesting.
That's the thing that makes a lovable jerk lovable, is that we love the reason for the jerky behavior. If you don't have a lovable reason for being a jerk, then everyone will feel that the jerk could just as easily not be a jerk, and they won't love the jerk even if there are other lovable qualities (like having been a baby once).
The joy of POV is that, you always show why the character is doing things anyway. So when your POV character acts like a jerk, you naturally show where that jerky behavior originates. As long as it plausibly comes from something the reader will find "good" in some way, then the jerkyness is forgivable.
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Hey, Elan! I was also a huge fan of "Earth 2"! *cyber high-five*
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
You can add me to the fan list for EARTH 2 as well.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Though if we are going to reminisce, maybe we should go to the Discussing Published Hooks and Books area, or something.
Maybe I can change the area title to include movies and tv, and argue that we can discuss the storytelling aspects of same? (What worked and what didn't?)
Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :
Northern Exposure had a magical formula. Joel was an irritating misfit that viewers understood in a strange world. Veiwers loved him because he reminded them of themselves. Charcters like Ed and Morris and even Maggie took a lot of work to comprehend, but you could understand Joel instantly. He was a fish out of water, totally prepared for a complex life in New York City but helpless for the simple life in Alaska.
Joel was sort of like Buck Rogers from the comics. If you want to tell stories set in the 25th century, it helps to have an average American white guy from the 20th century as your protagonist. Joel was even more like Thomas Covenant, another stranger in a strange land character who could act like a real bastard sometimes.
wbriggs, if you are writing a fantasy or sci-fi story, you might consider making your jerk character something close to your intended audiance. If your story is set in a magical world and aimed at 18 year old white American males, you might make your hero a 22 year old white American guy. Give him histrionic personality disorder and a red BMW Z3. You'll be all set.
Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :
no,no,no,no... you guys are all missing the point. Joel fit in precisely BECAUSE he was a misfit!!! They were ALL misfits!! They each had weird little quirks, and as a community they all learned to live with it. Joel's annoying behavior was HIS little quirk.
And Kathleen, as long as She Who Must Be Obeyed turns a blind eye to our discussion here, surely we can mention some of the other great things about Earth 2. What WAS that annoying character's name, the one who was married to Bess Trueheart? I can't remember any of the character's names, but I can remember the overall plot and how much I liked the mixture of characters who were in a survival situation (crash landing on a theoretically uninhabited planet) and forced into the process of forming an uneasy truce with each other.
Edited because I'm not coherent after 10PM.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited September 12, 2005).]<---- has anyone ELSE noticed that, in my part of the world, it's still September 11? Is this goofy board on Greenwich Mean Time???
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited September 12, 2005).]
Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :
But...but...as long as She turns a blind eye to the discussion, Kathleen can't be a part of it! They come as a package! Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Yeah, Elan.
Hmmph!
I don't remember the character's name, but his wife was played by Rebecca Gayheart (and aside from Tim Curry, who played another character in the series), she's the only one I am sure I've heard of since it was cancelled.
FWIW, your description of the EARTH 2 series sounds a little like LOST, doesn't it?
Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion of lovable jerks. (I don't tend to find them very lovable, myself.)
Posted by Robyn_Hood (Member # 2083) on :
I do like loveable jerks, as long as I have a reason to love them. Seeing past the prickly exterior to find the teddy bear within...it's something I like to do. As long as you find a way to do it so it comes across naturally, I'll trust you enough to follow the character where he or she goes. Just please, pleeeeeeeaaase, don't give me a clichéd, hard-ass police sergeant who busts the good cop, MC's chops only to turn out to be a good guy after all. That just makes me groan.
(I said all that so hopefully I'll get away with the following Earth 2 is being shown as re-runs on Space: The Imagination Station, in Canada -- at least in Calgary.)
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
If the guy up the ladder happens to actually know something important that the MC didn't know at the time, is that okay?
Posted by Crotalus (Member # 2345) on :
Lovable jerk: Though he started out a complete jerk, Sawyer of LOST comes to mind. His past makes him sympathetic. I also liked the first season finale, with him on the raft singing Bob Marley; "Redemption Songs".
That said, it took a lot of time to develop sympathy for Sawyer. In a short story or novel (if it's your MC) you've got to do it sooner.
Posted by franc li (Member # 3850) on :
People are attracted to jerks. It's really weird. I would have to see some of your work to know if/what is going wrong with your jerks. People like to fix broken people. Making a MC too perfect seems a much worse problem than making them too jerky. Now that I think about it, I know someone who has this problem in rich abundance in all their male MCs. Their female MCs don't seem to have quite as bad plasticness.
Earth 2 is being shown as re-runs on Space: The Imagination Station, in Canada -- at least in Calgary.)
