Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Old English dialect

This is topic Old English dialect - sources? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

I intend to use older English dialect in a story, and wish to avoid making the reader wince.

Anyone know of a site where I can learn a bit? When and where were 'thee' and 'thou' used? Country dialects? etc

I just want to throw in enough to help set the scene, and avoid battering the readers ear.

For you LHrs, this will be a takeoff from that hilarious scene with my younger son Jean Pierre, and his 4 girlfriends.

Thanks

mikemunsil

Posted by Brinestone (Member # 747) on :

How old are you going for? Shakespeare? Middle English (Chaucer)? Rural England English from the late 19th century (think Lassie)?

I can't help unless you give me a more specific idea of what you're aiming at.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Hmm. No earlier than 1700s England, I think.

Thanks for looking at it.

Posted by Brinestone (Member # 747) on :

This explains the history of the usage of thee:
http://www.etymonline.com/columns/thee.htm

If you're going for no earlier than 18th century England, thee and thou were on their way out. By 1800ish, the usage of either sounded quaint and old-fashioned.

But for the record, thou is the nominative (subject) pronoun. So, you would use it like, "Thou art a fool." Thee is the objective (object) pronoun. You would use it like, "I tell thee true."

The thing most people can't get right, though, isn't the thee and thou stuff--it's the verb conjugations. For that, I'll have to be at home to give you a better idea.

Posted by BuffySquirrel (Member # 2780) on :

In some parts of England, thee and thou survived much longer than that. Place as well as time will determine how your characters should speak.

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

I thank thee. Thou'rt a help.

and for those who want a futuristic english-sounding language, try Esata
http://www.beginnersgame.com/esata.html

Posted by wbriggs (Member # 2267) on :

I wot that I have a fair sense of that manner of English, from the King James Version. 'Tis beautiful, and period; yet I have no idea of regional variations based thereon.

And, btw, I abhor with great passion the practice of putting "eth" on the end of verbs that need it not, as with "Whither thou goest I also will goest." 'Tis a fouler thing than seeing "alright"!

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Alrighteth! I agreeth.

*spitteth to cleareth moutheth*

Sorry!

Posted by maria102182 (Member # 2829) on :

You make me think of the Igors in the Discworld novels. It's funny!!!!

Posted by Elan (Member # 2442) on :

I hope Dude doesn't mind, but I'm going to pass on a great link he sent me.

He said:

quote:
One of my favorite online sources for original texts is the Medieval Sourcebook. It is a good place to read original texts and get a feel for the language of the period.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html
Here's another good one:
http://members.aol.com/michellezi/resources-index.html#index

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Exellent, thanks Elan!

Posted by Inky_960 (Member # 2808) on :

Mike-

This might not be the reference you need for this particular story, but if you're interested in Old English and medieval stuff, and if you haven't found it and read it already, a very readable, entertaining, and tremendously edifying book, with much to say about dialects, Anglo-Saxon speech, etc., is...get a load of this:

_The Life and Times of Chaucer_ by John Gardner. (Knopf; ISBN: 0-394-49317-6)

As you might know, Gardner was a medieval scholar, and one of the most knowledgable people on earth regarding Chaucer. (Gardner also wrote _Grendel_, _October Light_, etc.) The Chaucer book is a gas.

And how long since you've heard "a gas" assigned to a book? Heh. // No kidding, it's a lively, scholarly romp, nothing else quite like it.

(Oh, and I got Linux! Haven't installed it yet, but thanks for the tip.)

Inky

Posted by mikemunsil (Member # 2109) on :

Thanks, Inky!

I LOVE Chaucer! My most favorite set of tales on earth. Too bad they weren't ever finished.

Good luck with the Linux. Good on you.