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Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
Dialog is one thing with which I've never had much trouble. I'm multi-tasking here with chapter 6 of my current novel in another window. It occurred to me that in the story thread with the humans, I seem to write much faster because the ideas keep flowing.

The two human characters, a male and a female, don't particularly like each other, but depend on each other to get through their adventures alive. I'm having a lot of fun having these characters continually bicker as they work. It seems so natural to have the two protagonists that don't like each other. (Implied sexual tension intentional.)

Here is an excerpt. They are walkig down a very steeply sloped corridor and just arrived at a branch where they must select which way to go.

(No critiques please, this is very raw)

Jasmine waved her flashlight at the walls and ceiling around the common corner. “They were probably following two branches of the same vein of whatever mineral they were mining.”

“That’s reasonable.”

“Which one does your invisible friend say we should take?”

Billy scowled at her, but didn’t reply immediately. Finally, he said, “I don’t know. I’m not feeling a nudge in either direction.” He paused momentarily to collect his thoughts before he continued. “Maybe they lead to the same place.”

“We’re going to have to pick one of them.”

“Which one did your helmet pick?” (aside: earlier, Jasmine dropped her spacesuit's helmet and it rolled downhill to who-knows-where.)

Jasmine looked directly into Billy’s eyes. “Pick one.”

Billy hesitated for a long time, but finally selected the corridor on the left. He took a step forward, then Jasmine said, “Why that way?”

“Why not?”

“What if it’s the wrong way?”

Billy stepped back onto the intersection and pointed down the right-hand corridor. “If you think it’s the wrong way, then you go *that* way.”

(Not the best example in the book, only the most recent.)


[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited June 17, 2005).]
 


Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
 
I'm confused...are you introducing a discussion topic? Asking for help? Something else?

Spell it out for a sleep-deprived moron...why'd you post this?
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
Topic for discussion. I just seem to have so much fun having my characters argue while they work together. I guess the theme for this thread could be:

What has worked for you to keep dialog interesting in a long manuscript.
 


Posted by yanos (Member # 1831) on :
 
I think if they argue all the time, it wouldn't be all that interesting. It'd be like endless repeats of Roseanne.
 
Posted by TheoPhileo (Member # 1914) on :
 
I think my best dialogue has been when I have my characters (POV character especially) juggling multiple things emotionally. He can completely side-step questions that are uncomfortable, come back to them at unexpected moments, interject a comment on something happening as the characters are talking before returning to the main topic.

People do not talk in a linear fashion, not in the real world. So often we try to force that in fiction (or only have the one track in mind) and thus can't figure out why our dialogues feel forced and unnatural, even if they follow a logical progression.

[This message has been edited by TheoPhileo (edited June 17, 2005).]
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
quote:
I think if they argue all the time, it wouldn't be all that interesting. It'd be like endless repeats of Roseanne

It's very hard to give a feel for the dialog with such a small sample. I intermix mission-related dialog with the digs. And as I said, the sample is very raw. The male character is from the deep south, but I can't write fluently in that language. That change will occur in revision. I certainly would never let anything I write remind anyone of Rosanne in final revision, though I did always want to see Rosanne Barr (ultimate man-hater) and Sam Kinneson (ultimate woman-hater) go at each other on stage. That would have been something to see.
 


Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :
 
As long as the dialogue is well-written and natural then dialogue is almost always more interesting than the narrative that surrounds it.

That's just the nature of dialogue. I suspect it's because of our natural human tendency to want to eavesdrop.
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
I do have to reiterate J's question. Why did you post the snippet of dialogue unless you wanted to discuss it?

Without an answer to that question, I can't participate meaningfully, other than to say that dialog does appear to be intrinsically interesting to anyone that understands "language" at a practical level.
 


Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
 
I think the idea was to discuss dialogue in general. Spaceman's use of antagonistic dialogue is, in fact, one method of keeping the dialogue interesting. There has been a long discussion of this on another site recently. One of the main points was: Have the speakers, in some way, working at cross-purposes.

One example is what Spaceman did, where the two are feeling antagonism. Another would be if the two are both talking, but not really listening to each other--sort of like following two monologues that interleave in an interesting way. Or one can say something somewhat ambiguous--we know what he meant, as he is the POV character and we can also see his thoughts--but the other character takes it a different way, as we can tell by his response.

Anything that helps build tension, as opposed to simply exchanging dull information (even if it's information that neither the reader nor the other character knows--I'm not talking about the horrid "As you know" problem), can help make the dialogue sparkle.
 


Posted by tchernabyelo (Member # 2651) on :
 
Ah, dialogue...

I've found (IMHO) that very little written dialogue works as spoken dialogue. Written dialogue - because it's part of writing - tend to be a lot more complete, direct, and precise. Real dialogue usually involves a lot fo pauses, shifts of emphasis and meaning half way through a sentence, tailing off, interrupting, and so on. Some of this is incredibly hard to do in writing (for instance, if B interrupts A, the reader is bound to be thinking "hey, I want to know what A was going to say!"), and some of it is not actually wise to try and represent.

In the past, I've written dialogue that flowed brilliantly as I was writing it, but read back, looked absolutely terrible. In "The Accidental Witch", I'm trying to get a much more realistic dialogue tone, but I suspect it may not work - it may simply be too confusing on the page. We shall see.

I have to admit, though, there is a really great feeling when you're writing and the characters have conversatoins or arguments almost by themselves - you are so familiar with their thought processes that "they" just react to one another and "you" don't have to do anything but let them speak. That's a [I]good{/I] feeling.
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
Survivor: rickfisher nailed it in his post below yours. It was late when I posted, so I probably wasn't putting words to my thoughts as well as I could. I was using the excerpt as an example of what I was talking about with respect to trying to keep dialog interesting...conflict interwoven with dialog that moves the story forward. What had me interested is that the dialog between these two characters flows so naturally that it seems like I can write five hundred words between breaths.

[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited June 17, 2005).]
 


Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Okay, you're probably making a distinction between "critiques" and discussing a text that I don't understand. I thought the point of using the word "critique" was to get away from the less precise term "criticism", which includes mere expressions of disapproval or censure.

In any case, it is certainly true that by having a dialogue in which the POV character is dealing with a problem through the use of wit and argument, you have a great advantage. Dialogue that shows the character acting rather than just vocalizing story information is always a good thing. We can see that Billy is trying to be fair, but having Jasmine ridicule his abilities even when she's so dependent on them is getting to him. We can also see that she's needling him because she wants more assurance...but his unwillingness to provide them seems honest rather than obstinate or pig-headed.

He's human enough to take a couple of jabs at her, but he isn't just leaving her there or quitting. She's clearly less than thrilled with being dependent on his intuition or whatever, but she's willing to have faith.

Without the dialogue, it would be hard to communicate any of this without just stating it flat out. Which would kinda kill the sublties of this interplay.

So yes, dialogue is very good for showing the dynamics of a relationship, particularly one that is under some kind of stress. Also, it is something with which almost all readers and writers are quite familiar. It's a strong hand for relating the characters to the reader.
 


Posted by Spaceman (Member # 9240) on :
 
I'm glad all the subtleties came through for you in the excerpt I pulled. The relationship between the two characters is, by the point where this text occurs, already fairly well establised
 
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
 
Naturally, otherwise you wouldn't find it so easy to guess what the characters would be saying to each other

Hopefully, you introduced their relationship mostly through dialogue rather than through introspection. Not that you can't elaborate a relationship through introspection, but it does mean the character is fully cognizant of any aspects of the relationship thus revealed.
 




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