In my WIP, I alternate between a first person protagonist chapters, and third person limited chapters involving other viewpoint characters.
I've seen this done to a limited extent elsewhere, for instance in Timegod's World.
In one chapter, I had a third person intro, the main first person body, and then a third person conclusion. Now I've broken them out into seperate chapters and expanded on them. So I've coined a practice for now: not mixing first and third in a single chapter.
Of course, I know some might say not to mix them not just in a single chapter, but in a single novel...
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
Doesn't matter if we've discussed this before, we'll discuss it again!
What you're desfribing sounds very much like a frame, a common device used to explain or house a first person narrative. This can work very well if done well, like most other things. The best way to know whether it works in your story is to get vcitims, I mean volunteers, to read it. As for me, I will simply tell you that I am not prejudiced against the technique and will decide on a case by case basis whether it works for me.
Posted by dpatridge (Member # 2208) on :
i don't see anything wrong with mixing them...
but again, as Christine said, it has to fit the story! i have third person omniscient (with some archaic structure at points) and 1st person narrative mixed about in my WIP... i suppose you could say i have 3 different POV's, my 3rd omni, 3rd omni w/ archaisms, and 1st narrative... i feel that it works for my story, it works for me. then i have another WIP, and in this one, i have ONLY 1st person narrative...
so basically i'm saying that i completely agree with Christine, i just made a bigger post of it and gave examples
Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :
I am currently reading a book that does this. It's China Meiville's Perdido Street Station. So far most of the book is written in third person, switching back and forth between a few main POV characters. But is has interludes where it goes into one of the minor characters as a first person narrator. Each of these interludes is several pages long, completely printed in italics.
One intereesting effect is that the first person narrator opened the book, letting us know about his thoughts and feelings. But it wasn't until many pages later when one of the other characters met him that we learned what he looked like (the meeting was told in third person). It was an unusual experience meeting a character from the outside when I had already come to know him from the inside.
This is unorthodox, but so far I find the book enjoyable and have not let the strange POV tricks deter me from my reading.
My conclusion is that what you plan can be done.
Posted by NewsBys (Member # 1950) on :
I have seen it done in the context of storytelling within a story. King did it in his short story - Mrs. Todd's Shortcut. I didn't really even notice it until about halfway through the story. It didn't bother me at all. I just pondered in awe his genius. The story starts out in 3rd and then the character begins to tell another character their tale within the story in 1st person. Then the closing is in 3rd again. I think it might be my favorite short story by him.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
I think the entire Amelia Peabody series is done this way. It works really well.
Posted by Magic Beans (Member # 2183) on :
I love that King story (living in VT and driving one-lane "roads" makes you feel it could really happen, too). Anne Rice does this a lot in her vampire chronicles. Every time we meet a new vampire, he tells his story to another character and it goes on for quite a long time.
Posted by Silver6 (Member # 1415) on :
For info, the first Amelia Peabodys were written entirely in first person. It's only when her son came of age ("Seeing a large cat" was the book, I reckon) that she started inserting passages in third person told from the POV of her son. But it does work well, although it takes some getting used to.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Yeah, it's fine if you have a clear idea of what you're doing and why.
Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :
R.A. Salvatore does it in his Drizzt novels. The first person "essay" frames the events, told in third person limited omniscient. It worked fine in the beginning, but it was awful by the time he wrote The Thousand Orcs. That's because all through the never ending series, the first person narrative has been a calm, philosophical look at what was happening through the rest of the novel. In The Thousand Orcs Salvatore turned it into an anguished, unnecessary explanation.
I got the feeling the only reason he included it was because he thought his audience expected it. Something to keep in mind if you decide to turn this into a series.
Posted by dpatridge (Member # 2208) on :
well, then, won't people be disappointed in me :P
the first two books in Searth are going to be written the same way, 3rd omni encapsulated in 1st narrative. then in the 3rd and last book of the trilogy is going to be entirely in 1st narrative!
aren't i evil?
Posted by Axi (Member # 2247) on :
I'm new to this interesting forum. First of all, "hello everybody". I'm from Spain so you'll have to forgive me for my poor english. I'll try to learn fast... ;-)
POV. Do you think the same rules apply to short stories? (About ten pages long) I'm working on one and i felt that the first part needed to be written in first person but the rest in third person limited...
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Hi and welcome to the boards. Don't worry about English, it isn't my native tongue either... As to your question, I honestly don't think that this could work in a short story that short. Changing POVs in 3rd person limited is disjointed enough; changing from 3rd to 1st is going to be even worse. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by Axi (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks Silver. Just what i thought. I suppose the real problem is my innability to write that first part in other than first person ;-) I'll have to keep trying or change the story.
Posted by Silver3 (Member # 2174) on :
Is the first part really indispensable? If it's written in 1st person, and then the rest in 3rd, I guess it concerns one character who's different from the one the story centers around. Can't you get the info in that first part into the main story some other way?
Posted by Axi (Member # 2247) on :
The first part is important to the story. The problem is that at the end I wanted to explain things that happen after the main character's death, so I found impossible not to use the third person. I think I'll end up getting rid of the "after death" part. Different structure, same impact, I hope.
Silver, thanks for your help.
(And Chris: Sorry for stealing your thread. Hope you don't mind :-) )
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
Axi,
Steal away. Your command of English may be better than mine. At least having knowledge of more than one langauge must give a better perspective.
Posted by Snowman (Member # 2204) on :
The Things they carried - by Tim O'Brien
POV switches a lot, and it works. But the I suppose it's more a collection of short stories based around the same characters.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
When you use a first person account, you can only relate events up to the last time the character would have had an opportunity to write things down (or dictate them to a recorder or whatever).
So you can't just cut the "after death" part, you have to cut everything after the last time the character was involved in writing down the story.
The main reason to use a first person account is that then your story contains an explanation for itself. If you don't end the story with the character able to write it down, then you lose that, and the reader will justly accuse you of cheating and not knowing the rules.
You can do a first person intro to any length story in the third person, though. Typically this is done with novels, but it works just as well with short stories. In the first person segment your character is the fictional author of the rest of work (assuming that the intro is fiction). Think The Princess Bride or the original story for Lost Boys.
Posted by ChrisOwens (Member # 1955) on :
In my first person WIP, the protagonist will die. But then, he will have an existance of sorts. His memories and experiences are stored "magically". Too he lives on as a fragment of his former personage in the mind of another, haunting the antagonist in his dreams.
Ok, that probablly sounds hokey, but hopefully by the end a reader would say, 'Not bad'.
[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited December 01, 2004).]
Posted by Axi (Member # 2247) on :
Survivor, you're right. I haven't thought about that. I'll have to think about it more carefully.
Chris, thanks.
It's a pity I write my stories in spanish for I'm going to lose the opportunity to know this forum's opinion about them.
Posted by Jeraliey (Member # 2147) on :
Es posible que yo puedo leerlos...pero no he practicado espanol hace casi cinco anos, y es possible que no voy a entender todo que tu escribes. Tambien, de vez en cuando no estoy la persona mejor para dar critica literaria. Especialmente cuentos en espanol.
Lo siento mucho por la gramactica horrible, y tambien si estoy equivocado en eleccion de mis palabras.
Posted by Axi (Member # 2247) on :
Jeraliey, tu gramática no es mala!!! Te lo aseguro.
Thanks for your offering, as soon as I have something on paper I'll be very grateful if you give me your opinion.
(!)Muchas gracias!