Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Expressing mulitple voices adequately

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Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

Hi all,

In my latest story I had some difficulty deciding how to handle the following; I could stand some opinions on how it should be handled or how you would handle it:

I've got a character with 3 different voices in his head. When he's alone, I decided to use quotations for dialogue. When he's around real-life people, the voices are written in italics so as to not confuse the reader as what is spoken and what is internalized and the main character uses standard typeface to speak his thoughts. (Note: with a few exceptions, usually there is only one voice present in any given scene.)

Here's an example of what it would look like printed, but not an actual excerpt from the story... I'm just making this up (Razz and Art are real-life, John is one of the voices in his head):

"So, you're going out with Caroline tonight?" Art asked.

"Yeah," Razz said, "we've got plans to have dinner at my house."

Do you think she'll like the wine I picked out for her? asked John.

Razz replied: She can be fussy, but I think you've made a good choice. We'll see.

"Dinner at your house? How lame!" Art rolled his eyes.

"You've got a better idea, Mister-never-had-a-date-in-his-life?"

You tell him, Razz. Don't take that from him. I think it's an excellent idea.

"Just means I've had plenty of time to think about what I would do if I ever did get a date. I certainly wouldn't waste time with a romantic dinner--girls like action and adventure."

****

There are times when all 3 voices are present and it seemed the easiest way to deal with it was to use quotes, since Razz is always alone in these scenes. Since I'm limited in the amount of typefaces (normal and italics) I can use in a manuscript, is this one of those things than an editor/publisher would decide on how best to handle it?

[This message has been edited by HSO (edited August 18, 2004).]

Posted by Lord Darkstorm (Member # 1610) on :

Why not treat them just like normal characters that only Razz hears. You could have Razz end up ansering out loud to clue the reader in. Maybe his close friends know he talks to himself sometime..."Voices in your head again?"

Or something like that. Just a thought.

LDS

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Personally, I think it would look more consistent if you kept them all in italics all the time.

Posted by RFLong (Member # 1923) on :

I'd go with Christine on this one. All the voices in his head italicised. I have a character with a similar(ish) situation in that he "hears" the voices of his ancestors in his head. I use italics for them, and any of their experiences they cause the protagonist to re-experience (they show him their memories).

It's a confusing situation for a reader to follow so you have to make it as obvious as possible - italics act as a signpost for your reader, warning them what to expect.

Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :

Christine beat me to the punch. (Again.) I too, think it would be more effective to keep them all in Italics, but I think you might need to put something in there to explain to the reader who is speaking.

As a suggestion, why not write the voices in this guy's head (and only those in his head) like a stage play? So, it would appear something like this:

"So, you're going out with Caroline tonight?" Art asked.
"Yeah," Razz said, "we've got plans to have dinner at my house."
JOHN: Do you think she'll like the wine I picked out for her?
RAZZ: She can be fussy, but I think you've made a good choice. We'll see.
"Dinner at your house? How lame!" Art rolled his eyes.
"You've got a better idea, Mister-never-had-a-date-in-his-life?"
JOHN: You tell him, Razz. Don't take that from him. I think it's an excellent idea.
BOB: Leave Razz alone! You know I don’t like it when you talk to him like that.
JOHN: Aw, go blow it out your...
RAZZ: Shut UP!
"Just means I've had plenty of time to think about what I would do if I ever did get a date. I certainly wouldn't waste time with a romantic dinner--girls like action and adventure."

[This message has been edited by goatboy (edited August 18, 2004).]

Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

Apologies for not fully explaining this. In this story, everyone has voices in their head. It's the future equivalent of a PDA. So, while Razz often speaks out loud to his voices when alone and sometimes when he's not alone, it's when he's internalizing (or subvocalizing, if you will) to his "companions" that's the issue.

Imagine for a moment an entire story's dialogue in italics. Would you care to read that? I wouldn't and I'd certainly be confused. Additionally, when all 3 'voices' are present, what am I to do? Have it all in italicized text? I wonder how well that would fly with an editor/publisher. I really don't know, actually.

This story, as written, is 10,000 words. It will probably be rewritten as a novel if I work up the courage to do it. That's a lot of italicized text... and thus my dilemma.

Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

That's an interesting suggestion, Goatboy...

...and certainly do-able. Hmm... Thanks, I'll consider that.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

Excellent suggestion, goatboy.

I'd definitely go with it, Jason.

Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :

I too like gb's suggestion, but I would add one caveat:

I would keep the format consistent. If you're going to use italics in some situations, use them in all, or drop them in all. I think you could easily use gb's suggestion and do away with the italics altogether and have it be crystal clear.

Sounds like quite a story! *g*

Susan

Posted by NewsBys (Member # 1950) on :

Yeah, goatboy's suggestion sounds like a good approach.

Posted by Keeley (Member # 2088) on :

It's workable, and if that's how you have to do it,...well, that's how you have to do it.

However, it would turn me off, as a reader. I don't like reading scripts and that's what this format feels like.

But like I said, if it's the only way out, take it. I have nothing better to offer.

Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :

Another thing, if you think italics would be overwhelming (and I kind of suspect you're right, based on what you've said) would be to use a different type of quotation mark. Maybe something like:

quote:
"Yeah," Razz said, "we've got plans to have dinner at my house."
<<Do you think she'll like the wine I picked out for her?>> asked John.
Razz replied: <<She can be fussy, but I think you've made a good choice. We'll see.>>
"Dinner at your house? How lame!" Art rolled his eyes.
"You've got a better idea, Mister-never-had-a-date-in-his-life?"
<<You tell him, Razz. Don't take that from him. I think it's an excellent idea.>>

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited August 18, 2004).]

Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

Thanks, all, for your input.

When I talked this over with my wife, she felt it might be a bit awkward to follow goatboy's suggestion and would take a while to adjust to it, but admitted it's an option. I'm on the fence... I'd like to find some material where something similar has been done. Anyone?

A publisher would have the option of using multiple typefaces... I don't. Then again, if I just write it in whatever format I choose, an editor can suggest changes to it as needed. So, should I be all that concerned at this point?

Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :

I didn't realize they would sometimes be speaking aloud to the voices in their heads. I don't think italics would work too well for that. This is going to get confusing.

I seem to recall reading at least one story where someone had voices in their head, but I don't recall if it was more than one. That is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Let me poke through my books and see if I can find an example for you.

Posted by shadowynd (Member # 2077) on :

Well, let's see now. I believe with Anne McCaffrey's dragon/rider mind-speak, she handles it with italics. I'd have to check, but I think if a rider should speak to his dragon aloud, it is handled as regular speech. Since the dragon can only reply telepathically, though, that would always be italicized.

That's only *one* voice in a person's head, though. You have multiple simultaneous conversations running around in there! Therein lies the hub (not to be confused with the HUB, which would no doubt simplify things, somehow)!

Susan

Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :

I'm with LDS on this.

Treat them like characters and use normal dialogue.

Italics give readers headaches, simply remember to establish the fact that only "so-and-so" (forgot his name) can hear them.

I assume you explain why they're there in the first place early enough on that establishing the other would be easy if not natural.

[This message has been edited by Alias (edited August 19, 2004).]

Posted by goatboy (Member # 2062) on :

Just a question, assuming these voices were in your head and they wanted to talk to each other. How would they know which one the conversation was directed at? As a purely mechanical thing, wouldn't there need to be some sort of identifier code either leading or trailing?

Maybe someone here who's more computer adept could tell us. Sort of like a routing code for the internet.

Roger Zalazny does it with italics in his Changeling books. But, there is only one voice. When other voices show up, they are in a dream sequence or a hallucination type thing.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

I think Walter Jon Williams does something similar in his ARISTOI.

And Vernor Vinge uses different type fonts in the "online discussion" sections of A FIRE UPON THE DEEP.

What I think you should do if you want a different type font for the inner voices is to include what is called a "style sheet" with your manuscript. In it you explain what you want and how you've designated those parts in the manuscript.

You do know that you underline in a manuscript to show italics, even though you can have your word processor print in italics, don't you? If you want something else, you can underline those parts and then write "special" or maybe put an asterisk in the margin every time. Something so they know what, how, and where you want things different.

Posted by HSO (Member # 2056) on :

I knew about the italics being shown as underlined. I didn't know we could include style sheets... if necessary. Heh. Thanks, Kathleen. That's another option to consider.

Luckily, I've got plenty of time to rework this story, so I can consider all of the possible ways to handle it.

Cheers to all for their suggestions.

HSO

Posted by cicerocat (Member # 2138) on :

My mc has a similar situation. I try to keep the voices' format distinctive and not change them around, so as not to confuse the readers. Especially as most of the time one of the voices rarely is given a "said tag".

I have two voices that talk to my character. For one, I have all its dialogue as merely bold. The other as bold italic. Neither one gets quotation marks around their dialogues. However, neither character talks for long periods of time at a go--except at the climax. And rarely do the two talk at the same time to my character; so that does make it easier for me.

In Gayle Greeno's Ghatti trilogy, in which the catlike creatures speak telepathically with their human counterparts, I believe different fonts are sometimes used to make the distinction between the voices. Or I may be confusing the dragon quartet by M. Kellogg. But in whichever novel set, slightly different fonts seemed to work well. Also, one of the dragons I believed talked in all caps, so that made it distinctive.

I have also seen a chapter excerpt (http://www.edgewebsite.com/books/eventhestones/es-sample.html) at Edge publishing, in which a telepathy was handled in what looked like a French way of delineating dialogue. With a dash at the start of the dialogue line. So maybe a different symbol before each voice would be a possibility.

Cya,
CC