Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Are character names and names of places copyrighted?

This is topic Are character names and names of places copyrighted? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by TechnoGrunt (Member # 2061) on :

The book I'm writing has a character whose name is derived from the writings of my favorite author. Although the stories are in the same genre, the plots of my story and my idol's are very different. Also, none of the other characters share names.

I was hoping to leave the character's name as-is, as a nod to my favorite author. Does this violate copyright law, and/or expose me to possible lawsuits?

Thanks for your input,
Jason

Posted by wetwilly (Member # 1818) on :

Depends on the specific work. If he's named/modeled after Pip from "Great Expectations," you needn't expect any copyright problems. If he's named/modeled after Alvin Maker, you might have a problem.

Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :

I can't think of anything "on record" that you'd have to worry about. So unless it's blatent,

"Harry Potter smiled at the success of his magic used-car lot," it would have issues.

But if you do like so many other authors before:

"Artemis twirled his dagger expertly ..."

and

"Artemis Fowl was having a bad day ..."

and

"Artemis looked Drizzt in the eye ..."

Three different works involving characters with the name "Artemis," but no one cries.

So, in general I wouldn't worry about it.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

OSC has a post on this topic in the Uncle Orson's Writing Class section of the site. It might be Naming Characters or More on Naming Characters, or it might be some other. I'm not motivated enough right now to look it up for you. So you're on your own there.

Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :

Would you be willing to get a little more specific? What are (some of) your character names and what characters were they derived from?

Posted by TechnoGrunt (Member # 2061) on :

I had hoped to avoid being specific, since the name of this author polarizes discussions. Some love him, some can't tolerate his style. Also, his recent surge in popularity may change things.

The character's name in question is derived from a river mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring. His first name is the same a very minor character from the Two Towers.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

Okay, so you tell us that the reason you didn't want to give the name was to avoid getting into a discussion over the merits of Lord of the Rings, then you give us enough information to know it's derived from Lord of the Rings, but not the actual name!

On the basis of the information given, I'd say that this name is probably obscure enough to be pointless as a nod to Tolkien, but prominent enough to be derivative.

Copyright may or may not be an issue, depending on how the character is used. Anything from Lord of the Rings is going to run a higher than average risk, but the risk is still not great as long as the character s clearly not supposed to be the other author's character.

So help me, though, if you're thinking of using something like Eomer Brandywine...or anything Brandywine.

Posted by TechnoGrunt (Member # 2061) on :

Last name Silverlode, actually. The first name is so minor that I think it's mentioned only once in the actual trilogy.

I know that changing the name is probably the smart thing to do. The sad thing is that this character has lived in my mind so long with this name that it feels like it _belongs_ to the character.

Will this sentimentality get me in trouble?

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

Go ahead and use the name. If your character is not a character from Lord of the Rings, and your story is not set in that fictional universe, it is not copyright infringement. And since the first and last names of your character are not taken directly from one character in the trilogy, and are not being used to market your fiction as coming from the holders of any trademarks associated with Lord of the Rings, you won't be violating trademark law.

If you were naming the character something like Sauron Baggins, it might be a distractingly poor choice for a name (unless your piece was humorous), but since most people are unlikely to see _____ Silverlode and say, "Hey, that's a LOTR name!" I think it just becomes a tiny bit of trivia.

Posted by TechnoGrunt (Member # 2061) on :

Thanks very much for your input, all. EricJamesStone, that's what I thought, but it helps to hear it from someone else.

Just for fun, can anyone thing of any instances of authors word-borrowing?

Posted by Balthasar (Member # 5399) on :

You also have to remember that these kinds of things are like tipping your hat to your mentors. To name a character after a river in Tolkien is merely a nod to Tolkien, and anyone who has a problem with it--anyone who is going to say you stole it from him--is going to have a really hard time in life.

The only thing you would want to consider--and in this case you don't have to worry at all--is if it's quite obvious what you're doing. For example, in SALEM'S LOT King tipped his hat to Bram Stoker by naming the central bad guy Straker. Why? Because the name Stoker in a work about vampires is a little too obvious.

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

quote:
this character has lived in my mind so long with this name that it feels like it _belongs_ to the character.

Then that's his name. Don't think of it as being a matter of attribution to Tolkien at all (unless the character's background includes something about how he legally changed his name to something cool that was in Tolkien's writing--which I doubt is the case).

I don't know why you even brought up the issue. "Silverlode" is just a concatenation of "silver" and "lode" which is an entirely logical name for any place known to have a significant deposit of silver. There must be dozens of places called "Silverlode", I've probably lived near at least one.

I still think it's an odd name for a person, but at least it isn't as outright silly as a character named "Brandywine".

Posted by Balthasar (Member # 5399) on :

quote:
Just for fun, can anyone thing of any instances of authors word-borrowing?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I think Orson Scott Card borrowed the word "ansible" from Ursula K. Le Guin.

Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :

One of my stories is called "The Man Who Moved the Moon," which is a reference to Robert Heinlein's story "The Man Who Sold the Moon." The main character in Heinlein's story is Delos Harriman. I named my main character Darryl Harrison.

It's not something someone would really notice unless they were quite familiar with Heinlein's story. It was just my way of paying tribute to Heinlein for writing one of my favorite short stories.

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

I've just recently starting reading Heinlein! Brilliant! I'll have to look for that story.

In the example you give, Techno, and in light of the match in genre, I might avoid straight-across copying of one author's names to name a single character. The Silverlode is OK, but maybe a different first name--or different last name. Now the situation would be entirely different if, say, your story were set in modern times and the character's last name just happened to be Silverlode (or even Brandybuck or Took or Baggins) and his/her parents named him in honor of a character from LOTR. Or named him Peregrin Took Smith. His friends, mercifully, call him Perry. Mom and Dad still call him Pip. In my mind that would be OK--maybe TOO blatant a way of honoring Tolkien.

But naming your character in the way you describe in later posts--I don't know. It just doesn't quite sit right with me. Maybe because it sounds amateurish--like someone giving themselves a chat room name from their favorite book. Of course, I would have to know the entire name before I could make a more accurate judgement...

Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :

The Tolkein people are pretty stiff on copywrite. Try looking the name up on an official website and see it it has a TM behind it.
You wanted authors who used nod to others? Try Tolkein himself, most of his dwarfs in the hobbit come from the Nordic sagas. (even in the same order listed from one I saw) Bifur, Bombur, Balin, Gloin.

(Just a guess Gamling Silverlode?)

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

quote:
Just for fun, can anyone thing of any instances of authors word-borrowing?

Arthur C. Clarke, in 3001, mentioned a character called Dr. Susan Calvin, who is of course a character from many Asimov short stories.

David Langford wrote a rather amusing story called BLIT (http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm ) which has apparently spawned references in a couple of novels, Greg Egan's Permutation City and Ken McLeod's The Cassini Division. I've read neither personally, the information was found on Langford's web site.

Posted by Silver6 (Member # 1415) on :

It's so minor, in my opinion, that it's not going to matter. And if you think about it, there are many, many fantasy books out there, and many names in there (with the plethora of characters involved). Chances are that at least one of your characters will have the same first or last name as someone in another author's book.
So I'd say don't worry about it. After all, it could have been unintentional, and you wouldn't even have realised it until you re-read the Lord of the Rings in minute detail.

Posted by rjzeller (Member # 1906) on :

AS I understand it, you cannot copywrite a title or a single word. As such, 'borrowing' a name from another author is perfectly legal.

Where you get into trouble is when you start copying story elements or characters. In other words, you cannot simply take Bilbo Baggins and plug him into your story with the same mannerisms, history, and so forth. That I would expect would be copywrite infringement or trademark violation if the name is actually trademarked.

So you could use the name. The real risk, however, is the more popular the story and the character, the less tollerant the reader will be for it. I think you've already addressed that, so I doubt it's an issue at all. Just keep it in mind. Becuase if I ever pick up a book with a character called "Bilbo" or "Brandywine" or whatever, I'm not likely to be to patient with it.

And the prior post about there being thousands of stories out there is too true. I was forced to change the name of one of my main characters in my latest novel because when I originally set the story down, his name was "Sam", short for "Samuel". However, one of my test readers immediately caught this and stated "I think of LOTR when I see that name". Sigh. This was BEFORE I had even read LOTR. I figured, how could a name so common as "Sam" be a risk?

Well...it was. I changed it and I think it actually worked out better.

[This message has been edited by rjzeller (edited June 30, 2004).]

Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :

I remember that when they started talking about Serius Black in the latest Potter movie, I kept interpreting that as "Serious Sam" Black