"He is in his dorm room. Ari is lying on his bed with the sheets draped over her."

OR

"He is in his dorm room. Ari lies on his bed with the sheets draped over her."

Or something else?
 

At least, that's what I see right off. If I think about it too much, I might change my mind.

(Lie, lay...I'd like to deck the person who thought those up. )

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited June 17, 2004).]
 

"Ari lies on his bed..." could mean:
1. Ari begins to lie on his bed.
2. Ari continues to lie on his bed.

"Ari is lying on his bed..." leaves no ambiguity about the fact that it is a continuation of the state of lying on the bed, rather than the beginning of lying on the bed.

Now, this ambiguity is fairly minor, and the way the sentence finishes tends to imply that it you mean the continuing state rather than the beginning.

However, my preference would be for "is lying," just because it is clearer.
 

But it's been a while, so you might have to check them all out, if you want. They should be in letters to the editor, but don't quote me.

CVG
 

If the context of these sentence is to set the scene, rather than show any action, then I think "He is in his dorm room. Ari is lying on his bed with the sheets draped over her." works best. It's unambigous.
 

When I have a problem like this, read it out loud with the one or two paragraphs that come before it and after it, then just go with whatever feels best.
 

What ends up happening is, instead of having some weak verbs, we have a whole bunch of useless verbs, like people snoring or whatever other "strong" verb you choose for no reason. A bunch of extraneous verbs is weaker than "weak" verbs in my opinion.
 

Edit: Not that there can't be any linking verbs. And I also admit that this example is only annoying in its present tense. Had it been in past (He was lying on the bed), I would have glanced over it casually.

[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited June 17, 2004).]
 

He is in his dorm room. Ari is on the bed looking at him (or sleeping, or whatever), the sheets draped over her like (and going with the art supplies references I suggested before, have them drape like, hmm, well, brain can't come up with something right now. Meltdown is complete, Captain. Am I sounding, hmm, stuck again. Need sleep. Need sleep.)
 

It doesn't answer the question of why on earth it matters...or why it wouldn't be something more like:

(XXXX's dorm room. XXXX stands center stage, ARI is lying on the bed at UR, covered by the sheets.)
 

quote:

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Without complaining that I'm writing in present tense. . . .

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Was the smilie over the top? Geez, I must be past my inhibition horizon.
 

quote:

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The best analysis I’ve found of the verbs to lie and to lay is in Charles Harrington Elster’s VERBAL ADVANTAGE. He notes that distinguishing between these two verbs is a common fault amongst educated adults.
Here’s the difference. To lie means to rest, recline, be situated. You lie on a [bed], rest there, recline on it. To lay means to put, place or set. You lay a book on a table; you lay your head on a pillow. Whatever you can put down you can also lay down.

The real tricky part is the tenses of these verbs.

The best tense of lie is lay: “Last night I lay in bed.”
The past tense of lay is laid: “I laid the book here yesterday.”

The tense of the [verb] to lay (to put, place, or set) are:

You lay a book down today.
You laid [it] down yesterday.
You have laid it down anytime in the past.

The tenses of the [verb] to lie (to rest, recline) are:

You lie down when you are tired today.
When you were tired yesterday you lay down.
When you have been tired in the past you have lain down. (lain is always preceded by have or had)

I hope [that] helps.

By the way, this is all from VERBAL ADVANTAGE, pp. 20-22. I highly recommended this book to everyone.

One last point. The word “laid” as a euphemism for “getting f**ked” isn’t found in the abridged American Heritage Dictionary or the Unabridged Random H0use Dictionary. It’s slan, and doesn’t really fit into this context.

But my question is where this definition came from. Sine laid is the past tense of the verb meaning to put, place, perhaps this raunchy definition is derived from the idea that a guy “put a girl in bed” and had sex with her. Of course---if you really want to push the idea—that would mean that the phrase, “I’m gonna get laid,” is probably grammatically incorrect.

But let me lay this issue aside.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited September 01, 2002).]

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It's helped me (I hope it's accurate) and I hope it helps you!

JOHN!

[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited June 18, 2004).]
 

But as has already been noted, this is not about the lie/lay confusion. MR just wanted to know which phrase (both using some form of "to lie") was better.

I can't answer because I have no idea what the context is supposed to be. I think that for most cases I would agree with what EJS has said...but this is already an unusual case.

If this is a radio play, for instance, I think that the more euphonious phrase might win out over the less ambiguous phrase.

But I don't know whether this is a radio play or a synopsis or a present tense story (by the way, if that's what this is, it's been done...and it doesn't add anything).
 

Tom, the 'he' in question, has had his memory played with, so there are sections of deja vu. They are very short flashes of which this is one. Based on the discussion I think that "is lying" is my winner, because this fragment of memory happens after a night in bed, so it's a continuation of lying.

I'll post the whole memory in Fragments and Feedback under Revealed-Total Rewrite. If you're curious. If we are going to have the discussion about the appropriate use of present tense then let's do it on the right forum. There's plenty of opportunity to kvetch because not only am I writing sections in present tense, I'm shifting tense within the story.

And yes, it is a leap off of djvdakota's suggestion, though djvdakota did not suggest the tense change. Don't worry Mr. Fisher the whole story is not present tense. Thank you, Eric and Survivor, for noticing that I had actually taken the time to figure out that I wanted "to lie" but it's still a tangly little verb.

Thanks all.

PS If you're curious about the radio scripts go to http://www.radiowork.com

[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited June 18, 2004).]
 

So, for what it's worth, I've always thought that flashbacks of certain sorts (of which these are definitely examples) are one of the few places where present tense is completely appropriate.