Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Punctuation question

This is topic Punctuation question in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

If you've got an abreviation at the end of a sentance do you still need a period?

Specifically, which is correct?

If she weren't such a good navigator he'd have dumped her long ago and uploaded a new A.I..

If she weren't such a good navigator he'd have dumped her long ago and uploaded a new A.I.

Thanks,
Mary

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

According to the "Oxford Manual of Style":

"If the full point of an abbreviation closes a sentence, there is no second point."

Posted by Nick Vend (Member # 1816) on :

That's good to know. I'd always avoided the issue by leaving periods off abbreviations entirely, but that's the coward's way.

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

A 'full point' as opposed to what? A half-point?

The only sentence-ending punctuation that requires an extra period is the dreaded ellipsis. (If you're brave, see the thread "Courier New's Sinister Side") Three dots usually cut it for a mid-sentence ellipsis, but if the ellipsis comes at the end of a sentence, an extra dot is added.

Of course I say that fully realizing a lot of published work incorrectly use only three, but besides my small epiphany about the possible reason for that in the above-mentioned thread, I'm wondering if the fact that it is only the ellipsis that needs the extra period to end sentences that is part of the confusion. Hmmm...might be another epiphany.

Whoa...maybe an ellipsis is a 'half-point'.... Maybe I better not go there.

Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :

quote:
A 'full point' as opposed to what? A half-point?

I don't know. It seems to be the style guide's preferred name for a period. In the UK, the most usual term is 'full stop', and I don't know why that's full; we don't use half stops either.

An ellipsis at the end of a sentence isn't followed by an additional dot in UK style, and it seems to be ambiguous in US style guides, which is probably why so much is published that way. According to the Oxford Manual, four dots indicates that a complete sentence has been omitted between two quoted sentences (and two dots indicates that a single letter is omitted).

Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :

Thanks, I was about to chicken out and rearrange the sentance so A.I. didn't come at the end of it.

I wonder if a comma is a half-stop?

While we're on the subject of extraneous punctuation.... I have two conflicting rules about sentence ending dashes. One says that you need punctuation after, the other says you don't. For instance, "What the - "
or "What the - ?"

Thanks,
Mary

Posted by djvdakota (Member # 2002) on :

quote:
"While we're on the subject of extraneous punctuation.... I have two conflicting rules about sentence ending dashes. One says that you need punctuation after, the other says you don't. For instance, "What the - "
or "What the - ?""

Is your information conflicting or referring to different circumstances? I believe it is correct to use punctuation after sentence ending dashes only to clarify the setence. For instance, if it is an unfinished question, as in your second example, or an unfinished exclamation, as in "What the--!" Otherwise you do not punctuate.

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited May 18, 2004).]

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

I thought that might be the case, too, Mary, but Jules' Oxford quote connects the 'full point' to an abbreviation, and no upstanding abbreviation would be seen with a comma. I think they're using terms a little loosely here. <shame on them>

Posted by Gwalchmai (Member # 1807) on :

The way I understood it was that a full stop meant actually come to a full stop when reading because the sentence is finished, as opposed to a comma (brief pause) or a semi-colon (longer pause, which is maybe more equivalent to a half stop because it seperates two pieces of information that are almost new sentences but not quite).

Posted by teddyrux (Member # 1595) on :

When in doubt, put the period in. I'm positive that the extra period won't get the story rejected, and the copyeditor is supposed to notice them.

As to how it's supposed to be, I don't know.

Rux