I've looked on-line, in all my reference books, and I've asked everyone in my family. I can't find it in the Chicago Manual of Style, or in Strunk and White. The question is, how are smileys punctuated? If the smiley is at the end of the sentence, does it go before or after the period?
I feel like it goes after. In fact, I feel like smileys are fully self-contained, with their own internal and invisible punctuation, so that
quote:I hate you!
is actually two complete sentences. Whereas
quote:I hate you !
would effectively have a period (internal to the smiley and invisible) immediately followed by an exclamation mark, and would thus be grammatically nonsensical.
Someone help! !
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
Smilies are generally independent of sentences and are their own punctuation, Unless they're used as an actual part of a sentence as follows: He was so .
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
Unless the smiley is grammatically part of the sentence, it should come after the punctuation.
Posted by Christine (Member # 1646) on :
Just out of curiosity, why are you using smileys at all?
Posted by rickfisher (Member # 1214) on :
Well--to be perfectly honest--my daughter wanted to know.
Posted by Nexus Capacitor (Member # 1694) on :
Since you appear to be serious, here's a link to the inventor of the emoticon's webpage.
They were created to help prevent misunderstandings on message boards and are completely independent of sentence structure. You use them after the punctuation to modify the tone of the sentence.
It's possible that they are over-used to the point of becoming meaningless, but that's probably not something we need to debate here.
Posted by Nexus Capacitor (Member # 1694) on :
Sorry. I left something out.
The reason you don't punctuate the emoticons is that they aren't part of english. (That's also why you couldn't find them in the style manuals.)
Think of them as a glyph to add tone or feeling to the english (or any language) sentence they are coupled with. Sometimes you'll even see them used alone to convey pure emotion.
You don't need punctuation in either case because the emoticons aren't words.
Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :
I actually find it humorous that you use the word, "smiley," which connotes happiness, joy, etc, and your example is an agry face saying, "I hate you!"
Sorry, just ironic.
Posted by UnheardOf (Member # 2022) on :
Can you imagine what it would be like if emoticons wormed their way into conventional writing and became a standard? New editions of old classics would be updated with them! And what if the editor was an idiot?
quote:Bilbo flushed and there was an angry light in his eyes. His kindly face grew hard. "Why not?" he cried. "And what business is it of yours, anyway, to know what I do with my own things? It is my own. I found it. It came to me." "Yes, yes," said Gandalf. "But there is no need to get angry." If I am it is your fault," said Bilbo. "It is mine, I tell you. My own. My precious. Yes, my precious." The wizard's face remained grave and attentive, and only a flicker in his deep eyes showed that he was startled and indeed alarmed.
[This message has been edited by UnheardOf (edited May 12, 2004).]
Posted by Jules (Member # 1658) on :
LOL
Excellent example
Posted by birdcastle (Member # 1508) on :
Actually it would look more like this:
quote: Bilbo "Why not?" he cried. "And " "Yes, yes," said Gandalf. "But " "If I am it is your fault," said Bilbo. "It is mine, " The wizard and
heh.
Lisa
Posted by UnheardOf (Member # 2022) on :
Lisa--lol! Much more succinct. Actually, there were emoticons on one of my tax forms. I think it was the state one:
This is the amount of money that will be refunded to you.
Or
This is the amount of money you owe.
So it's begun already!
Posted by Phanto (Member # 1619) on :
Well, I find the excessive use of emoticons to be distracting , especially when they're irrelevant and annoying.
I can't see myself enjoying a book full of emoticons .
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
Didn't Captain Kirk meet aliens who communicated only with emoticons? Or was it Captain Kirk who communicated only with emoticons? I can never get that right.
Posted by Gen (Member # 1868) on :
quote:I can't see myself enjoying a book full of emoticons .
Eh.... It's been done. Exegesis, by Astro Teller. Lots of smilies. It came out a while ago-- the tale of a sentient AI and its creator, as told through their emails. I remember being when I read it, although the ending was classically sad -- but then-- ....
[This message has been edited by Gen (edited May 14, 2004).]
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
quote:Didn't Captain Kirk meet aliens who communicated only with emoticons?
Nor, it wasn't Captain Kirk, it was Captain Picard. And it wasn't emoticons, it was allusions.
I heard a story once about a man who was invited to speak at a local businessmen's luncheon. While indroducing the speaker, the organizer said, "He recently had a profit of $100,000 on a cattle deal in Texas."
When it was his turn, the speaker said, "I must correct something that was said during the introduction about my making $100,000 on a cattle deal in Texas. It wasn't in Texas, it was in Oklahoma. And it wasn't a cattle deal, it was an oil deal. And it wasn't $100,000, it was $200,000. And it wasn't a profit, it was a loss. And it wasn't me, it was my brother."
Posted by Alias (Member # 1645) on :
quote:I heard a story once about a man who was invited to speak at a local businessmen's luncheon. While indroducing the speaker, the organizer said, "He recently had a profit of $100,000 on a cattle deal in Texas."
When it was his turn, the speaker said, "I must correct something that was said during the introduction about my making $100,000 on a cattle deal in Texas. It wasn't in Texas, it was in Oklahoma. And it wasn't a cattle deal, it was an oil deal. And it wasn't $100,000, it was $200,000. And it wasn't a profit, it was a loss. And it wasn't me, it was my brother."
ROFL @ Eric, or more appropriate for the topic,
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
That was a joke, Eric. I purposely didn't use emoticons and you thought I was serious. But I wondered if anyone would connect my post with that episode, although I did think it was Kirk.
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited May 14, 2004).]
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
I knew you were joking. I didn't think anyone would seriously believe Capatin Kirk communicated using emoticons. He communicated using overacting.
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Speaking of Kirk... who here has seen "Incubus" which has William Shatner speaking in tongues. It's the world's only feature length film shot entirely in Esperanto.
Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 1681) on :
An entire movie in Esperanto? What a nightmare!
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
I agree with the title burn grammar :@
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
Eric, I knew you knew I was joking and now you probably know I’m still joking so since I know you know….<eyes go round in circles> (Wish I had an emoticon for that.) Anyway, I still think it was Kirk.
quote:I agree with the title burn grammar :@
Actually, Pyre, I think grammar is smokin'!!! Actually, I do. Particularly since becoming an adult literacy volunteer and seeing how the lack of its understanding is so detrimental. <No emoticon, because I'm serious><Or maybe we need a serious emoticon >
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
Or did you mean "burn grammar" as in 'burn rubber' as in 'tear it up, man, and win the race!' or some such positive connotation? Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Wish granted!
code:
Use for above
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Sorry, use :rolleyes:
I should have remembered that the code tag doesn't work to disable smilies.
Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :
No, that's not really it, Survivor. is for 'sarcastic,' which is not what I want, and besides, it doesn't give the 'going out of your head crazy' look like cartoons do, even if I wanted to use it. Know what I mean? The eyes should go around and around in the same direction continuously.
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited May 16, 2004).]
Posted by Survivor (Member # 213) on :
Ah.
Posted by Pyre Dynasty (Member # 1947) on :
Actually I don't know what I mean, I was just playing with the title, it was late at night. Personally I don't like grammar but I see why it's important. We all gotta be speaking the same language, don't we?
:@ :achoo: :P
Posted by MaryRobinette (Member # 1680) on :
Actually... funny thing this. I've got this short story that I'm polishing with two people exchanging love letters via email. I have all the compressed chat room talk in there and a couple of smiley symbols. When I submit this, do I print it with the smiley or with the text version i.e. :) ? It is supposed to be humorous.
!
.
"Why not?" he cried. "And what business is it of yours, anyway, to know what I do with my own things?
It is my own. I found it. It came to me."
"
"
annoying.