Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Bah! Does this get better?

This is topic Bah! Does this get better? in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Gorditio (Member # 1451) on :

Ok, here's a quick rundown on me. I'm 18, have written (nothing of note, to be truthful) on and off for a few years (excluding classes). A smattering of extremely short stories, and the occasional tirade over current affairs of state, world situations, etc. My formal writing 'training' amounts basically to jack, as I have found most of what my teachers tried to teach me was by and large, USELESS. Which is not to say they were bad, or stupid people, but what they gave, I already had. Except grammer...to this date, I have not been given half an hour from a formal teacher devoted to grammer. Anyway, my formal writing history is the usual odd combination of research papers, (awful) poetry, fictions and whatever else it is you write about in highschool.

Now, however, I'm trying to sit down and write a decent short story (around 30-40 pages, not sure how many words that would be) but I am finding the execution to be extremely difficult. I have the ideas (sort of), and I know that if I could get the abstracts floating through my head into a solid thought and down onto paper, I could write a printable story (IMHO, that is), but I just CAN'T seem to do it. When I actually begin to write, I have this idea of how it should feel and flow, but in the execution everything seems to get confusing and distorted. The rhythym stumbles and falls it places, giving the entire text a jerky feel. I don't know, it's odd...I wish I had more work for you to view as to better illustrate my point (question), but it's something of a catch 22. Can't improve without trying, won't try until I improve.

Night, everyone, thanks for the help (in advance)

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Gordito,

Writing is hard work. As Jonathan Swift wrote:

"Blot out, correct, insert, refine,
Enlarge, diminish, interline;
Be mindful, when invention fails,
To scratch your head, and bite your nails."

quote:
Except grammer...to this date, I have not been given half an hour from a formal teacher devoted to grammer.

Grammar is the easiest part of writing to teach and learn, actually, because there are hard and fast rules, unlike style, which is highly personal and which I think you have. As far as grammar goes, I just found a website for Holy Mother Grammatica--sort of a Miss Manners for grammar--at www.skeeters63org/silvablu/hmg1.html

quote:
Now, however, I'm trying to sit down and write a decent short story (around 30-40 pages, not sure how many words that would be)

Figure each page is 250 words.

quote:
but I am finding the execution to be extremely difficult.

Anything worthwhile is never easy, so you have to decide if writing is worthwhile enough to muddle through.

quote:
I have the ideas (sort of), and I know that if I could get the abstracts floating through my head into a solid thought and down onto paper, I could write a printable story (IMHO, that is), but I just CAN'T seem to do it.

Seems like you already have. Maybe not "printable" yet, but why should you be any different?

quote:
When I actually begin to write, I have this idea of how it should feel and flow, but in the execution everything seems to get confusing and distorted. The rhythym stumbles and falls it places, giving the entire text a jerky feel.

I still maintain that your sense of flow is better than average. In fact, I just read something relevant on the net by David Poyer, I think: "Don't ever judge yourself by a first draft." Great advice. I would add, "But don't ever be satisfied with a first draft."

quote:
it's something of a catch 22. Can't improve without trying, won't try until I improve.

Life's like that. Get over it.

Posted by Stepper (Member # 1459) on :

The whole "start to finish" thing intimidates me, too. Don't let it stop you, though. Just write the thing paying no attention to word count or grammar or etc. Just get the raw story out on paper. Once you do that, you can throw it away (meaning file it, DON'T throw it away) and be less afraid of starting it 'cause it's a second draft.

Or, some writers have to write their way in to a story. You're fine as long as you're not afraid to throw chunks of it out.

And there you have my worthy contribution to your cause. It may not build a city, but it'll supply the toilet paper.

--S

Posted by Brinestone (Member # 747) on :

I don't know if this will help you, but I thought I'd put it forward anyway.

I am a world-class rewriter. Maybe not world-class in the quality sense as much as in the quantity sense, but whatever. I start. And then I restart. And then I restart. And on and on until I start somewhere where it feels right. After that, I only have to rewrite twice or three times, as opposed to five or six. But what I have at the end so far surpasses that with which I started that I am willing to take the time to do it.

It was also comforting to me to find out that Mr. Card does this too. See the preface to Speaker for the Dead.

If it's not right the first time, try again.

Posted by Falken224 on :

quote:
I have the ideas (sort of), and I know that if I could get the abstracts floating through my head into a solid thought and down onto paper, I could write a printable story (IMHO, that is), but I just CAN'T seem to do it.

*grin*

Now here's a topic I can identify with. I NEVER feel liek I have my ideas solidified enough to write them. But, last week, I learned a really REALLY powerful lesson at the Literary Boot Camp.

Write it anyway!

We had to come up with a story idea from scratch and have it written 2-3 days later. I sat down to write that thing and I KNEW I wasn't done inventing . . . I KNEW I didn't have the story in my head very clearly, and I had a day (and another evening if I was lucky) to get it written anyway.

So, I grabbed the most concrete part of the idea I'd managed to come up with and just started off with that. And by the way if you can't get started, start with the line "it was a dark and stormy night." and just start writing from there. Trust me, it works. That's what I did, and about halfway through the opening, I realized it was crap and that while I was writing a better idea had formed. So I tossed the opening and started over.

Only this time, halfway through the opening, I managed to accidentally introduce a REALLY interesting character . . . and the WHOLE story changed. Suddenly, I had something to run with for a thousand or two words and by the time I got to the undeveloped part of my idea I had two thousand words of crystal clear, out-on-the-paper-concrete, completely formed idea. (not to mention 2000 words of story out of the way.)

Well, it pretty much went on that way for two days, getting stuck, starting, tossing it out, and re-writing, but each step of the process created a MUCH clearer story in my head. By the time I was done writing, it amazed me how thoroughly I could picture the world and the story I had created, which I wouldn't have been able to do if I'd just sat there not writing anything.

Now, ask anybody from Boot Camp and they'll tell you that for the most part I had interesting characters and the rest of the story was clear as mud. Turns out the lack of clarity in my OWN head (and some lack of research) let to some clarity problems in the story. That's to be expected. However, now I know what I want to do with it on the rewrite, and I'm that much futher ahead of the game than I would have been.

That's my experience and advice . . . take it for what it's worth.

I hope this writing stuff gets easier for you.

-Nate

Posted by GZ (Member # 1374) on :

Don’t discount all that school practice. Fine literature it probably wasn’t (mine wasn’t) and probably not fiction. But you’ve still had practice putting ideas together in a logical manner on paper. This is not bad practice to have had.

Grammar – find a book, find a website. This you can fix with a bit of study. Schools just don’t seem to teach grammar anymore (Years of education speaking here, and after about middle school, I don’t think I’ve seen anything related to a grammar lecture.).

Page length depends on so many factors – font, spacing, and margins. 250 words/page is about what you get with 12 pt. Courier, 1 inch margins, double spaced. When in doubt use the word count on the word processor, or count the characters in an average line of monospaced type (ex. Courier), divide by six = word count per line, count lines, multiply, etc.

quote:
Can't improve without trying, won't try until I improve.

The first part is totally correct. You’ve just got to get over the last part. Get something down then you have something to work with. Rewriting is your best friend and it does wonders for improving things like flow and clarity, and just getting things on track to where you want them. I have spent hours rewriting, revising, tweaking, and generally prodding a story into shape, and it’s always for the better (and if its not, well hey, you’ve got that back up copy right? )

Writing is hard work. I don’t think anybody is going to tell you differently. Which is not to say it isn’t fun. But you’ve got to set down and “do the do” to make it happen.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

If it will help at all, I have some "writing assignments" posted in the Writing Class part of the Hatrack Writers Workshop.

You have to ask the website software to show you all the topics in the Writing Class in order to find them, since I posted them quite a while ago.

They may help you at least get some of your ideas into coherent form so you can start writing.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Just remembered something that can be a big help with grammar--if you have time (it's a big help even if you don't have time): learn a foreign language.

If you only have a little time, I'd recommend German because it's closely related to English.

If you have more time, try French or Spanish.

If you have lots of time, go for Latin and Greek--you will really learn a lot about English grammar from them.

The reason a foreign language helps you learn grammar is because a native speaker learns native grammar by osmosis, but learning a new language requires that you learn in class (and requires that the teacher teach it to you). You'll be amazed how much becomes clearer about your own language when you have to learn a different one.

Posted by GZ (Member # 1374) on :

I have to second the foreign language thing. I learned a great deal about how English worked while taking Spanish for 4 years. The lessons somehow are clearer when framed to explain a another language.

Posted by okieinexile (Member # 1469) on :

Gordito,

If you share your work with others, you will discover that the world is full of people who can't put an interesting sentence together themselves but can correct your grammar.

Posted by Kolona (Member # 1438) on :

Ouch.

Posted by okieinexile (Member # 1469) on :

Not intended as a dig at you, Kolona.

I write a weekly column and get lots of unsolicited feedback from all sorts.

Posted by Gorditio (Member # 1451) on :

Thanks, all.