Hatrack River Writers Workshop: Playing Games with Verb Tense

This is topic Playing Games with Verb Tense in forum Open Discussions About Writing at Hatrack River Writers Workshop.

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Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :

Jonn Barnes' Hugo nominated Mother of Storms is written entirely in the third person present tense.

Set in 2028, it is probably the biggest disaster story every told, aside from a nuclear apocalypse. It is also part cyber-punk, and it is very, very violent.

I'm only about 10% into the book, so I can't comment on its quality. But the present tense thing does have an effect on the reader, and it might be something for writers to check out.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Another book that uses third person present tense (and high tension for me) was BRIGHTNESS FALLS THROUGH THE SKY by James Tiptree Jr.

I don't really know if the high tension necessary followed from the third person present tense or if that was just co-inky-dinkal, but I did notice that the author was using third person present tense.

Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 1198) on :

I love that book... but I think the correct title is "Brightness Falls from the Air"... I had to read it for a Science Fiction class in college... (unfortunately, the only good thing about the class was the reading list, which also included Hyperion by Dan Simmons and Neuromancer by William Gibson)

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Thank you, FlyingCow. I never seem to get the title right.

Posted by Chuckles (Member # 1331) on :

I've never found present tense writing to be particularly readable. If I go to the bookstore, I won't ever buy a book cold if it's written in the present tense. But, like my other literary prejudices, I'm always looking for a reason to abandon or ammend them, so perhaps if I see either of those, I'll give it a try. I also tend to shy away from fiction written in the first person...

Take care
-Justin-

[This message has been edited by Chuckles (edited June 04, 2002).]

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

My mother is in a composition class in college for which she was required to write a short story. She did. When it was handed back, there were fifteen "goods" written throughout the paper and the only suggestion at the end was "Would have been a better story if told in the present tense." My mom asked her about this, and she said that good literature was written in the present tense. I couldn't believe this. It seemed so ludicrous to me since nearly every short story I've ever read has been in past. And to mark someone down because of tense... Ugh.. It's very upsetting to me! haha

Rahl

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

"Ha ha" is right. (Sorry, I am still chuckling.)

That instructor (a teaching assistant or a graduate student probably?) is full of baloney.

This kind of thing is one reason that so many people who know something about writing say so many nasty things about people in the ivory towers of academia.

Damon Knight would tell your mother to go find as many short stories written in past tense as she can by authors that are taught and discussed in other courses at this college and show them to the instructor.
(Damon was always telling people that whenever someone made a pronouncement like the one your mother's instructor made to go look at what has actually been published and is successful and see if it really follows what the person has said.)

I don't recommend that your mother do that, however, though I'd like to ask people reading this to go find some "good literature" and see how much is in present and how much in past. (Please feel free to list titles of short stories in past tense along with their author's names here.)

I would recommend that your mother save this story and tell it whenever she is around people with more sense. They'll all get a good laugh out of it.

By the way, if not writing the story in present tense really cost her on her grade, she may want to appeal the grade to the English department chairman. Otherwise, I'd just tell her to chalk it up to academic narrow-mindedness.

<SHEESH!!!>

Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 1118) on :

FWIW I'm not enjoying the book. Acclaimed as it is, Mother of Storms is not such an easy read. The story is pretty unsophistocated as sci-fi goes, so the only reason I can imagine is the present tense thing.

I think I'll read Sum of All Fears now and come back to Mother of Storms later.

Posted by Falken224 on :

Ugh! I hope you like Clancy.

It was a good book, don't get me wrong. And it was definitely good ol' Tom at work, but I started that thing 5 times over about 4 years before I managed to get through it. He's got the knack of weaving many threads together at the end, but it's the first-half-of-the-book-setup that I have a hard time with.

But it's Clancy, what can I say other than 'brain candy'.

Posted by MrWhipple (Member # 1436) on :

I am still thinking of writing something in second person. Just to see how long I can sustain it.
You will go to the computer and sit down. You see the screen glaring at you. It calls to you. You go into a trance and begin to type.......

[This message has been edited by MrWhipple (edited June 14, 2002).]

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

Kathleen, that is almost exactly what I had her do. I gave her like fifteen anthologies containing "The World's Best Short Ficiton", all of which contained stories written in a tense that that bobo would have hated, no doubt, and told her to bring them in to show her teacher.

My mom is a little chicken and non-confrontational about things like that and so of course she didn't want to. She had gotten an A on every other paper, and will thus be getting on in the class and so she didn't think it was worth the trouble.

I would have probably crammed the books down the teachers throat.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Rahl22, your mother is probably right. As satisfying as it might be, it really wouldn't have done any good--to the books or the teacher--to cram them down her throat.

When you run into someone who is totally dedicated to a certain idea, it is a waste of energy to try to change them. People have to want to change, after all.

That's why I said that "ha, ha" is right. The only thing you can do is laugh. And if a grade is involved, you do what they ask and you keep your thoughts to yourself.

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

So much for artistic vision, eh?

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

Well, artistic vision isn't really for classes. (Or the other way around--classes aren't for artistic vision.)

You take a class to learn as much as you can from the teacher (and the other students), and then, once you've learned that stuff, you apply it on your own, with your own artistic vision.

You can test out some of your ideas in a class, but if you do, be ready to receive a negative response if they go against what the teacher is trying to teach.

Rahl, one thing you didn't make clear was whether or not your mother's teacher told her before she wrote the story that present tense was the only valid tense. If she didn't tell her that until after she graded the story, and then gave her a poor grade because she wrote the story in a different tense, the teacher is a poor teacher and deserves our scorn.

Posted by Rahl22 (Member # 1411) on :

She did not say that she required present tense, but suggested that it was better. I just think it very foolish to actually mark down a story because of the tense in which it was told.

Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :

I agree, Rahl.

I also think that her reason for preferring present tense (or, rather, her justification for marking the story down because it wasn't in present tense) was pretty lame.

Just because someone is a teacher, doesn't mean that person is right. (And just because someone is being paid to teach doesn't mean that person is a good teacher.)