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Hello, everybody. My name is Daniel Thurot, and I am new in this forum. I don't know anything about any of you except what I've read over the past few days, and so I'm just going to mention some details about myself and then ask a few questions. I doubt anybody will go into this thread at all, but I don't have anything else to say right now.
First off, I'm noticing that this place seems to focus more on sci-fi and fantasy. This isn't a surprise, but I'm a realist writer, and would anybody be interested in reading anything of mine? I've written some pieces that could be considered fantasy, but even that would be a stretch. I tried some sci-fi a long time ago, but for some reason the only stuff I could write was an obvious DUNE rip-off. Most of the fantasy I've read in the past has been more of the same, so it's never appealed to me the way that other genres have.
Other than that... Well, any questions or comments would be nice. Some details on me are that I'm attending university and studying a dual-major in English and psychology.
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Hi! Welcome to Hatrack! Please explain what a "realist writer" is and how that differs from writing in other genres.
Posts: 2710 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Yes, most of us here write science fiction and/or fantasy. As this web site is hosted by one of the best scifi/fantasy writers of our day this is not surprising, however; we do welcome different flavors. Some of us may welcome you more whole-heartedly than others, but you will find no one here to disdain your work (or they will answer to Kathleen, at least if there's anything left after the other members and I got through with them ).
In fact, I have long been hoping that we could find a wider variety of talents to participate on this board. I have ocassionally taken classes at an on-line place that is ecclectic (sp?) in writing, and it was a refreshing change. I even took classes in mystery and romance writing and learned a few things myself.
If you want specific feedback on your writing head over to F&F (Fragments and Feedback) and post a few lines (no more than 13 as they appear on your word processor) and give us a brief description of the project. Be up front that it is not science fiction or fantasy, because it may otherwise cause confusion. (In scifi and fantasy, metaphors are often taken literally, especially in those 13 lines.) Then sit back and wait; see who bites. Not everyone will, but I would encourage even the most die-hard scifi and fantasy finatics here to give it a try and broaden their horizons.
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I find it difficult to define "realist" because it's something that I always took for granted. But with some thought, I suppose that what I mean would be the literary movement that began in the mid-nineteenth century in Europe, which focuses more on an objective perspective that emphasizes realistic settings in an everyday world, psychological descriptions of characters, dialogue that attempts to capture the real idiomatic nature of natural speech, etc.
Some of the authors that I've enjoyed immensely in this region were the original writers, such as Emile Zola, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Leo Tolstoy, Charles Dickens and George Eliot. In the twentieth century, there was a large American movement in this brand of fiction, including J.D. Salinger, Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald and John Knowles (A Separate Peace).
Although some people find these authors' works to be unexciting (it can be hard to get into Dostoevsky, I'll admit), it's not so much a long, highly descriptive novel as much as an involved observation of the tangible world around me that I seek to describe.
A lot of my writing does different things. I have written fantasy pieces, but they always begin with something "fantastic" and then dealt with it in a very realistic fashion. For example, one story I wrote was called "The Invisible Picture Book," and the only real fantasy element in it dealt with the telling of omens. But that singular idea was not the focus of the story; rather, I chose to have the characters continue about their lives in the most true fashion that I could come up with. The fantastic was nothing more than a mode of expression for me to try and explain something normal and observable in everyday life.
Don't get me wrong--I enjoy lots of fantasy and sci-fi immensely. But my own writing always tends to lean towards that particular brand of fiction. I finished my first book about half a year ago and now it's being reviewed by publishers. Because it's so many little observable things put together, it works--in my mind--as something extremely true, despite little things in the story that would never happen in real life. Those elements are just ways of brining out the nature of the characters.
I wish I could explain it better, but the best way that I could would be to point out examples in other authors' writing. Dostoevsky has segments in Crime and Punishment that are extremely fantastic. So does Fitzgerald in The Great Gatsby. But both of these stories ring very true. That's what I like to write.
Wow, this is long.
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Daniel Thurot
unregistered
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I definitely do agree with Christine that Card is one of the best sci-fi/fantasy writers of our day, and that is why I wanted to be a part of these forums.
The reason I like Card is because of the nature of many of his works that I've read. The Ender series was extremely good at exposing many of the strengths and fallacies of humanity through Ender, Valentine and Peter, all who seemed to effectively display a different side of human nature. I liked the last three books more than Ender's Game because I felt more connection with that reality than I had in the first book.
But my favorite Card novel would be Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus. I like it because it does pretty much everything well. The sci-fi elements are believable and ring true of the people involved. The life of Columbus is accurate and a wonderful examination of such a history-altering character. And the alternate history is full of hope for the human race as a whole.
I liked it because it was true.
Many other sci-fi and fantasy writers, I think, fall into the trap of emulation. I have read far too many Tolkien-esque fantasy stories, too many Herbert and Bradbury and Heinlein rip-offs. But of course, there's a lot of ripping off going on in ALL forms of literature. Sometimes I feel that it's rare to find a recent and refreshing author.
quote:I suppose that what I mean would be the literary movement that began in the mid-nineteenth century in Europe, which focuses more on an objective perspective that emphasizes realistic settings in an everyday world, psychological descriptions of characters, dialogue that attempts to capture the real idiomatic nature of natural speech, etc.
What you're describing sounds to me like a good novel, irrespective of genre. The sci-fi and fantasy genres could be like this, too, with some attention to such concerns.
I've heard what you're talking about as "mainstream" or "literary" fiction (the difference being that the latter category is more arty farty than the former), but that's a very broad category. Most mainstream fiction goes into a narrower focus category: Historical, legal, crime, political thriller, what have you.
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Though genre defines the story type which most people tend to gravitate one form or another in the bookstore. A great story is of paramount necessity versus genre. I will read any great moving story irregardless of genre. And the reverse is true I will not read crap just because it's sci fi or fantasy.
Of course selling your story will require you to determine what genre it best fits.
So my advice write what you love and let it fall into whatever genre it does after the fact.
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While there are things I am not keen on reading they generally do not fall into one particular genre. I will and have read from all the genres which varying degrees of pleasure. So, welcome and I am looking forward to reading some of your work.
I always think that SF and fantasy need realism in them in order to make the fantastic just that much more fnatastic.
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Welcome to Hatrack. Like you, I am more of a "mainstream" writer than sci-fi or fantasy, although my current WIP will probably be categorized as "magic realism". (Not at all the same thing as fantasy, but this isn't the thread for that discussion. :-)
I agree with the other comments above. While this forum has a lot of sci-fant writers, the discussion is usually genre-neutral.
I'd be happy to look at your stuff if/when you get around to posting some taste tests. There's no hurry. Some people lurk for years before ever posting.
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Thank you, in_defiance22 for that. In a way, yes, that's what I mean. It's kind of difficult to say why I really like some things and completely hate others. Has anyone ever really tried to define something simple for a younger child? Even things that we take for granted in our everyday lives are far more complicated to explain to someone who hasn't experienced such things. In a way, I am guilty of not having really analyzed my own style of writing / taste in others' literature. Oh well. I'll get on that.
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"Realism" is a term that is used in so many different ways that it is an almost useless term in literature. For example, some of the works you mentioned, Daniel, wouldn't be called realism at all by some Literary types. (Not saying you're wrong, just saying the term is used different ways by different people).
Some books are "true" and some are "truthful"
I'd say this is actually true of all good literature, realistic or not. A story can be 100% plausible and realistic without being at all truthful. I would put Tomw Clancy in this category. On the other hand, a story can be completely fantastic and implausible and at the same time 100% truthful. "Lord of the Flies" for example--is that plot line likely to ever actually happen? No. But it's a very truthful book in that it reveals true things about human nature. "Ender's Game," same thing. "Frankenstein," same thing. The list goes on.
Of course, I think Valentine was actually referring to something else, but I don't remember what. For the purpose of this discussion, that's a great quote.
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