My subject concerns the best way to plan out a story, whether it be a short sory or something longer. I'm very good at coming up with interesting situations and backgrounds to base a story off of, and usually start writing on them right away, completing the plot as I go. While I've been successful at this method, and am able to complete most stories fairly efficiently with some very good plots that have solid beginnnings, middles, and ends, I find that I can write about three times faster on a story when I know where it's heading. I also find I have less editing to do on the planned stories, giving me more time for new stories.
For this reason, I'm asking for some ideas and feedback that might help several of us with the planning of a story. What you do, and what you suggest to others to be more efficient in the plannning stage of a story.
I also think that planning a novel is essential, so if you have different suggestions involving planning novels versus short stories, those ideas would be appreciated as well.
Everybody's different, and we all work differently, but I always find constructive suggestions useful and helpful to someone, even if not to everybody.
Thank you in advance for everyone's comments. I'm sure they will be appreciated by everyone.
posted
You might try a search on "story ideas" or "story outline". You'll come up with a plethora of previous discussions on this topic.
Personally, I felt vindicated last night as I was reading Stephen King's "On Writing." King says:
quote:The situation comes first. The characters--always flat and unfeatured, to begin with--come next. Once those things are fixed in my mind, I begin to narrate. I often have an idea of wht the outcome may be, but I have never demanded a set of characters that they do things my way. On the contrary, I want them to do things their way...
I write in an intuitive, "see where this goes" style. I know my characters, I know the underlying story, I know where we need to end up. But I allow my characters to take over and write for themselves. They don't always go where I planned, but they always go somewhere interesting. Some people write a detailed outline and then fill in the meat of the story around it. I use an outline to track where I've been and to make sure I don't forget something important.
posted
Roger Zelazny did that. He developed a character, and he sometimes did a brief outline, but after I believe 30 pages, he ditched the outline, and the story kepts going on its own momentum.
I'm not sure of Octavia Butler plans her works, but sometime I wonder if she does the same thing. Her novels seem character oriented. Wild Seed takes to interesting viewpoint characters and sets them in conflict, and Mind Of My Mind seems to do the same thing. In essence, she takes a bunch of interesting well-devleoped characters, puts them together and sees what happens.
It could be, while a vague outline and idea where the story is headed is needed overall, if it is overly planned, so that the writer is no longer suprised by what happens, it no longer holds the writer's interest, and once that happens it's easy to not finish it.
Thanks for the advice on checking existing posts. I'll check into those.
I know where you're coming from, and that's pretty much the way I've been doing it, but I'd like to improve my efficiency, that's why I ask. I'm writing 1,500 words a day now, but would like to be able to do even more, or get more time in for edits and rewrites. It's always difficult to ever have enough time and work full time at another job.
It seems that there are two groups of writers; those that plan, and then those that do it our way and Stephen's King's way. I was mostly trying to "straddle the fence" so-to-speak, and get some more planning going before I write rather than letting the story drag me along.
I'm thinking that maybe it's best to plan the plot in a general way, and then let the characters build themselves into it, but I'm not sure. I think that's kind of what Shephen King suggests, and I'd like to see if anyone has found any way that works for them.
posted
yeah, there are planners and seat-of-the-pants types. It might be more efficient to plan, but only if that works for you, and only if it produces a good story in the end.
The Snowflake Method is good for planners, as is Karen Wiesner's First Draft in 30 Days.
posted
I'm familiar with Karen Wiesner's First Draft in 30 Days, but in general, what is the Snowflake Method?
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posted
Just a different organization of what Weisner does, basically. Develop high-level character sketches and a high-level plot outline. Then expand them. Then expand them. Then expand them. Then expand them. Then write your draft.
it's all on the web; you should be able to find it easily enough with google.
posted
1500 words / day is a very good pace, I think. I would think that doing what you think is best for you would be the best way to go.
I can tell you to "just write and see" and somebody else may tell you "plan it out." In the end I think it comes down to preference. Just try different things and see what works for you.
posted
I'm doing NaNoWriMo specifically with the idea of not planning it much at all. And yet, I find myself constantly checking the structure as it exists in my head.
I think that to a certain extent your plan for a story is already in you, the various planning tools are just helping to draw out elements of the plan you might not have consciously noticed yet. And a lot of people can do most the basic planning mentally, without writing it down.
posted
Let me tell you something that I learned through a mistake. I had this huge epic fantasy in mind to write. HUGE. and EPIC. Magnificent!!!! But I focused to much on planning, and not enough of writing. I think I was too afraid to screw it up. So now I have thousands of words of notes and plans, and no story, because I killed it. So my suggestion is, at the begining have the simple/basic story in your mind and write the damn thing already!!! Because I didn't, and now I had to let that story go for a while. I didn't abandon it, I just can't write it right now. Hopefully this helped you a bit. Posts: 147 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Yah, I know where you're coming from when you say just write it, and believe me I don't intend to be the type of planner that say Tolkein was. He probably wrote more words on his world that were never intended to be published, than he wrote in his stories about it. It worked for him, but I doubt it would work for me.
I think that there's a balance that every author needs to come to. I think that anyone who just writes without any planning is cheating themselves, just like those that plan too much cheat themselves out of their story, like Leaf II said. I'm looking for that perfect place inbetween for me.
I looked carefully at the Snowflake Method from the link above and think that it and similar aproaches are a good place to start. I think that anyone who is looking for the sweet spot with their planning a story like I am, just need to try methods like these, and modify it to their personal tastes and what fits their writing style, so that's what I intend to do.
Thanks for the input everyone. You've all helped with this dilema of mine.
And Leaf II, don't give up on your story. If it's worth it, just keep on going. Like I said, Tolkien wrote a lot about his world just for himself as reference, and if you've ever read OSC's book on writing "How To Write Science Fiction And Fantasy", you know that planning out your world in advance should be a good thing. You obviously now have a world fleshed out to base many stories and novels from, so don't toss it. Just set it aside for awhile so you can get an unbiased opinion of it. It seems such a waste to see so much creativity and effort be lost.
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Yeah, sure. I'm not killing it forever. I'm just a bit burnt out on it right now. I have to let it come back, I have to let the story in my mind again, that's all. Like i said in the meant time I'm writing another novel I had in mind. So I think that will be good for me. Yeah Ive read both OSC writing books and I agree with you on that. Just needs some time, I suppose.
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posted
I've tried several different means of plot structuring, but I'm simply smitten with Idea Knot (http://www.stayatplay.com/ideaknot). My creative side doesn't deal well with structured outlines, so I usually tend to have haphazard notes written all over the place. With Idea Knot, my notes are all in one place, typed, and easily at hand. And when I get hit with inspiration, I can just vomit everything into a new note.
I'd say that it's best to find a method that correlates with your personal creative process - otherwise, it'll just make you even more frustrated. If you like structure, an outline, story map, or timeline will probably work best. If you are more scattered, and that works for you, a program or a collection of typed notes might be more helpful.
posted
Idea Knot looks like an interesting program. Kind of sounds like creating organization from chaos. Does it do a good job of combining ideas into coherent strings, or am I missing the point of it?
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posted
Please do not use the word vomit in reference to anything other than the acting of throwing up.
Also, no talking about throwing up on the boards. Can we make this a boardwide rule please? Yeah? hahahaha.... ahhh... ...P.s. Thanks for the knot suggestion, it sounds like I will find that place very useful once I get home from work.
posted
Basically what it does is contain everything. I have the free Mac version, but it gives me the option to create groups, under which I add ideas. So say you make a group named "Plot," that contains the ideas, like "antagonist," "sideplots," "climax," "twists," or whatever.
Lol...all right, all right, I promise not to use references to regurgitation in relation to writing anymore. But it's the best word to describe what happens between me and my notes.
quote:Yeah, sure. I'm not killing it forever. I'm just a bit burnt out on it right now. I have to let it come back, I have to let the story in my mind again, that's all. Like i said in the meant time I'm writing another novel I had in mind. So I think that will be good for me. Yeah Ive read both OSC writing books and I agree with you on that. Just needs some time, I suppose.
I just picked a novel back up that I'd gotten stuck on five years ago... same thing with the pages and pages of notes, but no clear idea where I wanted the tale to go... now, though, after writing some other things in the interim, I have a better idea, and hammered out a decent plot outline just last night.
[This message has been edited by Sariel (edited October 12, 2005).]
posted
I suppose the first thing I do is examine my central plot point (the problem, struggle, or issue at hand) from as many perspectives as possible. I think negatively, positively, neutrally...asking that wonderful question we know as 'why?' the whole time. In this way, I have the basis for my various characters' points-of-view. Where they're coming from. With this set, I'm free to fill in those frameworks...the players for my new game. Most of this is done as I write, kind of on the back burner of my mind. Frequently I'll be writing a scene, think on something I'd written half an hour ago, and go back to fix it. Then I'll return to the scene I had been writing and finish it. I can do this. My cousin, on the other hand, cannot split his attention without losing focus. Perhaps it's just little splinters of ADD in my mind, or possibly a wish to put what's behind me behind me until the editing process, if you know what I mean. To be truthful, I'm not sure.
In any case, I follow up these basics with more detailed notes...most of them jotted in margins of notebook paper as I think of them, or on blank sheets from my printer's loading tray. This is when I develop supporting technology/magics (depending on the genre), forms of government, more detailed locations (maps), etc. I love to create new technology, for example, and frequently find myself doodling intricate flights of engineering fancy. Some of it happens to be believable (or as believable as such fiction can be from my limited knowledge base), some not. I guess I just like the creative process, and of seeing how my characters decide to use my toys.
But that's just me. I tend to let the character aspects of the story drive themselves, but keep a tight reign on all the supporting features. Sometimes it feels like a tug of war between a disinterested parent whose kids kick anyone they want in the shins without fear of rebuke and a control freak with a riding quirt in gloved hands. Maybe that's a little extreme. It's more like the two share the rope only because they're tied together with it.
And no, I do not have split personalities. Hmph.
Inkwell ----------------- "The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp." -Anonymous
[This message has been edited by Inkwell (edited October 12, 2005).]
posted
^^^ Actually, you do. You just haven't come to grips with your perfections. Yes, I said perfections. Where do you think your best ideas come from?
Hehe...just kidding, BTW. Really.
Inkwell ----------------- "The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp." -Anonymous
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