I've previously received comments on my work about spellings and phrases that are common to the UK.
After thiking about this, I wonder if it narrows any future market down by writing with such UK'isms. Do you reckon I should adopt American spellings & phrases (e.g. not call fish and chip shops chippies, or a bar a pub). It seems obvious that this may increase the market, since it appears that there is a much larger scifi/fantasy readership in the states.
posted
I have seen some editors address this specific issue. What they said was, "Don't worry about it. Just send it in."
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
There are two sides of this: British words and phrases, and British spelling. As a general rule, American's are fine the with first, but can't stand the second.
If a character in a story is an American, I would find it strange if he used British english. On the other hand, if the character is British, most American readers would expect to see some of the British uses of the language, at least the ones they understand.
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a good example of an extrememly popular SF series told in British English. Nobody over here seemed to have any problems with that.
On the other hand, the Harry Potter novels were "translated" to help American kids understand them better, although the translation became lighter and lighter with each passing book.
If you want your story to be read by Americans, there's nothing wrong with calling a bar a pub and such, because we all know what a pub is, even if we don't call it that. The fish and chips shop word is probably less understood in the US, but scifi readers are used to figuring things out from the context, so I still wouldn't worry about it.
posted
I sometimes wonder the same thing. While cultural issues and word usages aren't that different between Canada and the US, Canadians do follow Britih spelling conventions.
While I don't often get comments about it, every once in a while someone will try to correct words like: neighbour, labour, centre, cheque and doughnut.
My understanding is that editors will look past spelling and cultural conventions.
posted
I should think it would be impossible to completely remove all your cultural inflections. After all, when we use certain words and phrases on a daily basis, we sometimes miss the fact that others do not. In this case, consistency is important. You don't want to mangle it into a mish-mash.
Even if you were to TRY to Americanize your writing, you would probably fail to hit the mark. Lord knows I can't keep up with it. And American dialect sometimes ranges as widely between east coast and west coast as it does between the USA and Britain or Australia. I'm constantly using words and phrases I grew up with, that people in other areas of the country think are weird.
quote:After thiking about this, I wonder if it narrows any future market down by writing with such UK'isms.
No, not really. Unless you count those markets which only want stories which take place in a particular place, say, Canada (there's a few), or if markets only want stories from authors with green skin and happen to be from the Tau Ceti solar system (there's a few of those, too).
An editor is going to note your home address on your title page when they read your story. Even if they don't see it, they'll figure it out soon enough when they note spellings and phrases that aren't standard US ones. As Beth said, don't worry about it.
posted
Am I incorrect in thinking a bar in America isn't exactly the same thing as a pub in England?
I've been in English pubs before (good food), but the only bars I've entered in America were those I had to pass through on the way to the real restaurant, or those in or near the hotel lobby when I'm at a science fiction convention and I'm looking for the SF/F authors I know who tend to hang out in hotel bars.
So far as I know, American bars are NOT good places to go for a decent meal.
posted
I don't think they are the same, but my experience of American bars is limited.
Not all British pubs serve food, but many do, from bar snacks to full menus. Not even sure how to define a British pub--you just know one when you see one! Pub is however short for Public House. They serve beer and shorts. (Also, now, wine.) If that helps.
There are also often bars in hotels and restaurants. Those aren't described as pubs. We also have Wine Bars. Which are bars. And also serve beer. But not food.
quote:While cultural issues and word usages aren't that different between Canada and the US, Canadians do follow British spelling conventions.
Not true. In Canada, it's acceptable to use either American or British spellings. Both were taught when I was in school & university, and I've seen both everywhere from books to magazines & newspapers to . . . wherever.
Canadians are just very wishy washy and non-commital about it.
posted
I had the opposite problem once: I was writing a story I really wanted set in England with English characters. It didn't make sense to write it as an American! So I adopted British spelling and slang. I *think* it worked. My critiquers seemed to think so, and some were British. Some things that had to be changed:
"everything in God's green earth" (in a closet) -> "all your homeless items" (in a cupboard)
"math" -> "maths"
"bills" -> "rates"
It was fun, but I did find out my ignorance. I'd hate to do it regularly!
posted
Briticisms / British spelling tend to drive me up the wall---in one particular manner.
I've occasionally picked up a book, written by Americans, written about Americans, often first published in the United States as well, but published in the UK. I've been deep in reading, and I suddenly run across a Briticism. Double "l"s, "our" for "or," "kerb" for "curb," a bunch more.
For me, it makes me stop, jerks me right out of the narrative, where I say, "No American would spell that word that way," and then try to go on reading.
I've always thought that if I was in a position to have a book published in the UK, I'd forbid the practice or forbid the publication. (I've never been in that position, but I'd like to be.)
The other way 'round---British books by British authors published in the United States---doesn't bother me, because, usually, changing spellings while changing countries isn't usually done. Take Tolkien. Take Arthur C. Clarke. Take Kenneth Grahame. British spellings abound in the American editions.
I note in passing that (I am informed) numerous alterations were made in the "Harry Potter" books, or at least the early ones. In particular, the title of the first book was changed. I do not understand why it was felt necessary to do so. Though a lack of knowledge about Britain might obscure, say, a pun like, "spellotape," it hardly seems worth making the change.
[I tried to write something like this down yesterday, but somewhere along the way I touched a wrong button and it disappeared into the void. Such is fate...and there's the long-standing rule that the copy that disappeared is always better than the copy that you write to replace it.]
posted
Yeah. I think that British pubs are quite a bit different to your Bars, so maybe it wasn't such a great example, but most folks got the idea.
British pubs seem to fall into 3 categories:
1) Trendy Wine Bars - They dont normally serve food, but sometimes do so & maybe are tied in with a separate restaurant.
2) Traditional Pubs - Sometimes called 'Old mens pubs'. These sell proper beer (the dark brown stuff that doesn't fizz) and home cooked food.
3) Chain pubs - Are tied into a brewery so will often have 1 main type of beer, but trade in lager in the main. Serve food, but it is generic stuff (of reasonable quality mind) of which you could find the exact same menu in any pub of the same chain across the country. For e.g. Country Fayre, Harvester, Tom Cobleigh etc.
quote:Not true. In Canada, it's acceptable to use either American or British spellings. Both were taught when I was in school & university, and I've seen both everywhere from books to magazines & newspapers to . . . wherever.
Canadians are just very wishy washy and non-commital about it.
Might be a regional thing. My teachers, right up to college, were strict about Canadian spellings.
Having worked in the newspaper business, I can say that any publication using the Canadian Press Style Guide will use the "-our" instead of "-or" and spell it "centre" (unless the specific title of a building is spelled "center"). However, Canadianized versions of American publications often follow the American Press Style Guide instead of correcting for the new market.
Thanks to the mass-marketing machine and cable TV, we do have far more donut shops around.
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited September 07, 2005).]
posted
When I was living with my first wife in Greensboro, North Carolina I asked one of the guys at work if he knew of any good bars.
"You mean, like a bar-bar?" he said, giving me this you-don't-even-want-to-go-there look.
"Uh, I guess."
"I haven't gone to a bar-bar in years."
Basically I got the impression that most Americans feel more comfortable drinking in a restaurant bar; a place that's designed to be family orientated.
I love blues music. So I looked through a local guide and saw that a band were playing at a nearby bar. My wife and I drove over, parked. Didn't leave the car. Looked through the window at the interior of the bar. Looked at each other. Didn't say a word. Left.
You know those stereotypical images of American bars you see in movies? Air blue with smoke, beards and leather jackets and folks shooting billiards? Kind of place where they give you looks that positively growl at you if your face doesn't fit? It was THAT kind of place. They exist, I thought. My god, places like this actually exist. Talk about getting a bad vibe! Man, that place was scary looking - and we didn't even leave the car!
So, no 'bars' and 'pubs' are most emphatically not the same thing!
posted
In my neck of the woods bars and pubs are pretty close. The biggest difference in my mind between the two is that a pub is more likely to have a larger and better food menu.
Of course there are also clubs and lounges. Bars and lounges are close to being the same; however I expect less food choice with a better quality at a lounge than a bar.
Clubs are clubs. Deafening music, mobs of people banging into each other...er...I mean dancing, over-priced drinks, no food (or possibly really bad food), lots and lots of really young people (some sneaking in with their older siblings I.D.'s), and plenty of other people there for essentially one purpose...But I digress
Paul, sounds like you wound up at a honky-tonk, biker bar, blues bar, dive or whatever else you might want to call it that Garth Brooks talks about in his song "Friends in Low Places". I haven't been to many places in Greensboro, but the one or two joints I've gone to were very different from anything else I've seen. My biggest surprise this summer was going to a country music club and seeing all kinds of teenagers running around. Oh well, these are the kinds of experiences we can use for stories -- right?!
posted
In this case, I'd write in British English, and let the editors make the "translation" decisions -- the exception being if the characters themselves are American. You would never hear an American say something like, 'I left my watch in one of the rucksacks or bum bags in the hire car's boot. Would you please knock me up around seven-ish so I won't lie in and get sacked?'
(note the quote marks, too.)
[This message has been edited by Varishta (edited September 08, 2005).]
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