posted
Yesterday I posted on F&F asking for folk to critique a short short story of mine. I was rather surprised when I received one particular reply. The reviewer seemed to feel that the views and opinions of the main character, or perhaps a device used in the story, perforce represented the writer's core beliefs. Boy did that throw me! That a reader might make that assumption would not have not surprised me, but for another writer to do so...
It certainly gave me pause for thought. If I were to next write a story which featured a character that took demonic glee in committing rape, murder and mayhem, would the reader assume that is also my belief? If I present a society in which the same rape, murder and mayhem is the norm, will that be assumed to be meant by me to be analagous to reality in some way?
This short story was, for me, a writing exercise. The challenge was to be able to write descriptions of one of the characters in such a manner as to elicit sympathy from the reader while not revealing the true nature of that character. To be any more explicit would be a big spoiler for any others that might still wish to read and critique it for me!
So I cannot help but wonder, since I did evoke such a strong (negative) response from that reviewer, was this a sign of success of my writing?? *grin*
posted
Since I read that story, but am not the one who responded negatively to it... I would like to comment...
No, writing is escapism, information dump, thoughts, ideas, and so many other things. They do not necessarily reflect the writer's core beliefs. No one should make that assumption, for if we did, what would we make of Clive Barker, Stephen King, or *gasp* OSC for his treatment of children.
Worry not about that person's thoughts... I believe your story affected them in just the way you intended it to.
One of the most often cited rules of providing feedback is that you should NEVER critique the author, ONLY the piece. That is to say, it is entirely inappropriate for a person to make suppositions about the author's character, morals, or motive for writing the piece. You just don't do it. And if someone provides such feedback, I should delete it unread without even a thank you. (Or any other response, let's not get nasty with one another.)
I just wanted to make that absolutely clear before I got into your actual question...about whether or not people make these assumptions about writers. When I read something, published or unpublished, I do get impressions about writers. That is not to say that if you write about a rapist as a protagonist, that I wil think you think that it's ok....(I may not read it, it sounds kind of not like something I'd like to read, to be honesty.)
As an example, I have the distinct impression that Heimlein (based on his extremely promiscuous characters in ALL of his books ) has a moral system that is ok with promiscuity, multiple partners, homosexuality, and even group marriages. I have never read any biography of this author, only many of his books, but that is the impression I get. (You know, even with a published author I'd rather discuss the work instead of impressions I got of the author, I'm just trying to be honest here.)
Whatever you do,k people wil make assumptions and judgements about you. it's a fact of human nature. Now, just writing from a criminal's viewpoint is not enough (in my opinion) to make me think you think crime is ok. Your entire story would have to somehow condone criminal actions for me to wonder about you, and to date I've never read such a story.
Don't worry what people think of you based on your stories. They don't now you, don't understand your motivations, and therefore have no business judging. They will, inside their own heads (if they're polite like me), because it is basic human nature to make judgements. But don't worry about it. Write what makes you feel good, what you are passionate about, and write it for your own reasons. If you want to explore an entirely different moral code from your own just because you're curious about how a person with such a moral code might think, go for it and to heck with the judgements people will make.
In fact, based on one story, if you decided to explore some alternate moral code (from the norm, or even from your norm) I might not think anything of it. I only based my opinion of Heimlein on over a dozen books. \
So ther eyou go, let people judge all they want, and ignore them because you know who you are and they don't....and if they're telling you who you are then they're just rude and ignorant.
posted
I've often stopped in the midst of a writing frenzy because I thought that what I'd just written would make a reader jump to conclusions about me. "What would they think of that? What would they think of me?"
I think about it, and I think about it, and then I stop thinking about it, write it out, and decide that if it's right for the story, it's right, and the reader will be too immersed (if I've done my job) to care. And if it's not right, i'll put it in anyway and take care of it during the edit.
I'm glad to hear that not everyone makes snap judgements about the authors of what they read. Or, that if they do, they keep it to themslves.
posted
You know, I actually value that review because it WAS so unexpected. It made me sit back and think, and I believe that's always a good thing!
I really do not take it as a personal attack. That individual simply doesn't know me. I do take it as an interesting reaction to my story and one I had not anticipated. Fascinating when one's writing does elicit such an unexpected response, actually.
Pray do not chastise this person: That was not the intent of my post. I would still not hesitate to ask that individual to review something else for me, for surely such a diverse viewpoint as must have led to that reaction is also to be valued!
Celebrate our differences, for they are what allow each of us to see with new eyes and to provide valuable feedback to one another.
posted
Judging from your email reply, this is addressed at me, and as such, I feel I must clarify.
--Oh. Rereading the text does make it seem like I assumed you agreed with the text. Which I did. Please forgive me that mistake. I shall endeavor to improve in that area .
I would never do so if the story was of a different style--expressing an opinion of an obviously extreme viewpoint.
Also, it wasn't such a negative reaction. I said I don't really agree too much with your analogy, and as such, I can only respond with disattachment and boredom. The people who agree with you will, however, lap this story up.
My intent was to tell her that I had an automatic negative bias because I disagreed with the analogy--but that people who agreed with it would love the story. In essence, that it was a partisan story.
If it was properly written, it would read the following:
I don't really agree too much with your analogy, and as such, I can only respond with disattachment and boredom. The people who agree with it will, however, lap this story up.
*foot is in mouth*
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 13, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 13, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited July 13, 2004).]
posted
LOL! Okay, Phanto, you outed yourself. I wasn't going to name names!
As I said to you in a subsequent email, I would imagine that published authors are frequently confronted with this kind of situation, as readers assume themes and ideas that the writer never intended.
I just hadn't expected it with this short story! Thanks for giving me an unanticipated pause for thought! *G*
*gently helps Phanto extract foot from mouth*
***************
Pyre, LOL! Does that mean the story's all wet? *VBG*
posted
First of all, I stand by what I said. There is never a call for a critiquer to comment on an author rather ahan a story. However, Phanto did not break this rule, IMO, though he might have skirted the edge of the rule a bit. His rewrite cleared up all concerns but honestly, I wouldn't have taken offense by the original version, either.
But I suppose it is a mor einteresting truth that the themes you write about and the anologies you employ will be considered of importance to you -- otherwise why would you write about them? I thought about this last night and I realised that, in fact, I don't write about anything that doeson't at some level touch me, although often not in the way that the reader my interpret it.
posted
I think there may be some small amount of readers who will make judgement calls about an author simply based on a story they've read.
I nevertheless believe you have to write the story and ignore the concerns about what a person may think of you the author. You will have some truly despicable characters, and sometimes they'll even be the protagonist. This is not a reflection on you the person, it's a reflection on your creativity.
I don't think Phanto had done anything wrong, even in the original version of the reply. But I do think Susan poses an excellent question.
From my personal experience I used the following:
When taking placement exams for college, I was asked to write a short essay about a subject they assigned to me. The particular topic they gave me demanded I take a position in support of something I firmly did not agree with--but I obliged. I treated it honestly and fairly and simply thought through it (as best I could) from the mindset of someone who would support that issue.
It resulted in me being placed into honors programs for English. If only they knew....
Now, those who have seen my posts realize my gramatical (and spelling) skills are not the strongest, so it was not the technical merits of that essay that earned me honors placement, but rather, the ability to sell them on my idea (even if it WASN'T my idea).
We will at times have to create characters who are like this too--people who believe and behave entirely contrary to how we would, and we'll want the readers to LIKE these characters and empathise with them. One assumes our readers will understand that how the character rationalizes is not necessarily how we rationalize things.
I think most readers are savvy enough to get that, though not all. Too bad. If we inhibit our creativity because we fear a bad rep, then we also inhibit our potential for success as writers.
The only thing I will mention touches upon what Christine said: When you see a pattern then it's very likely that the author does share those beliefs. Piers Anthony seems to have characters getting-it-on all over the place in his books. I remember after finishing about the fifth or sixth novel of his thinking to myself, "sheesh, this guy just can't get a character through a story without passing through the sheets first."
Well, apparently that wasn't too far off the mark -- he's written some "adults only" fiction as well...
So it would seem that where you find recurring themes or ideas, you're onto something about the author him/herself. But if it only shows up here or there, then you really don't have much to go on.
posted
Presumably we *frequently* have occasion to write about characters whose actions and ideals differ from, or are downright contrary to, our own. I'm guessing that at least our antagonists most often fall into this category!
What are the sources that others draw upon to make these characters (any that differ significantly from ourselves) believable, to bring them to life?
In the case of my short story, my model was a very dear friend whose beliefs on the topic of the short story run far more to the left than do my own. I even go so far as to use my friend's exact words in a phrase uttered numerous times by the character. Naturally my friend loves the story! *G*
Susan
[This message has been edited by shadowynd (edited July 13, 2004).]
posted
I think most of us end up having to model our characters after people we know to be able to draw the proper motivations.
But even if we don't, it doesn't mean we are at a loss to try and creates characters who think contrary to our own beliefs or values.
I think it helps to realize that the vast majority of people believe firmly in their convictions and have a strong sense of "right" or correctness about the actions they take and the opinions they keep. One person believes Abortion is good, one person believes it's bad. If your an anti-abortion writer writing about a character who is heavily pro-abortion, you have to accept that they feel perfectly justfied in their opinion. Then you have to start from that judgement, and work backwards (in a sense) to qualify it: Abortion is good. Those who oppose it oppose it because they're just being religious fanatics, or they don't understand the burden an unexpected pregnancy places on a woman. Claiming they should avoid getting pregnant in the first place is stupid -- often times a woman has taken every precuation and still gets pregnant anyway. It's not right that her whole life be ruined because of one simple mistake...
And so on...eventually you have the mindset of a character that you can empathise with even if you do not believe the same yourself.
"Red Prophet" has a character early on is a scoundrel and a boozer and a generally naughty guy, yet I found I really liked that character and was upset whenever something bad would happen to him. And CLEARLY Card is not a drinker or a scoundrel, yet he created a character who despite these flaws, was quite fun to root for.
That's not the most shining example of what I'm talking about, but it does show how well a person can do in giving us a likeable character who is very contrary to the author's own moral stance.
Get to know people of varying ideals, and get to know how they think. I think we'd find that while we all differ in our interpretation of life and how we live it, we all (er...most of us) strive to live just lives. Few people, in my experience, do bad or say or think bad things just for the sake of being bad.
Nevertheless, that doesn't stop many of them from BEING bad.
quote:I think most of us end up having to model our characters after people we know to be able to draw the proper motivations. But even if we don't, it doesn't mean we are at a loss to try and creates characters who think contrary to our own beliefs or values.
A lot of my characters are actually (largely) based on other fictional characters. For instance, the protagonist of my current WIP is a little bit of me crossed with larger bits of a young Jean-Luc Picard and Honor Harrington. There's somebody else in there, too, and I'm not entirely sure who it is. Maybe the protagonist from Top Gun (Maverick?).
Not that this was a conscious choice -- just something I've realised about him as I write.
posted
One of the things I like to do with my characters is cast them, as if I were making a movie.
This has the effect of solidifying the character in my mind (especially if I can get a photo of the actor I've chosen and I put it on the wall near my computer), but it also colors the way I see the character.
A character may come from an aspect of my own personality, or from someone I know, but if I cast an actor as the character, that person also influences me.
Just as combining several ideas can help strengthen a story, I think combining several different people (or aspects of people) can strengthen a character.
posted
I've still been thinking about Phanto's reaction to my little story, and moreso my reaction to his. I have come to the conclusion that I owe Phanto an apology as well. I seem to have done the same thing I felt that he had done, which is to assume what he was thinking and feeling!
When Phanto told me he didn't care for my story because he didn't agree with my analogy, a more appropriate reaction from me would have been, "What analogy and why do you not care for it? What about it bothers you, or what exactly do you disagree with?"
That would have been (and still would be) valuable for me to know.
I made an assumption about all of that, and you probably know what they say about ass*u*me!
Phanto, please accept my sincere apologies. And ah.. I hope you'll return the favour by aiding ME in getting over the dreaded foot-in-mouth disease? *G*
It would seem I-- mostly inadvertantly!-- wrote a story which has the power to affect others quite deeply. What an interesting experience!!
I'm finding that combining story ideas works wonderfully! I hadn't considered that combining characters might work equally well. That I'll have to try!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
