Well, it's taken me nearly 3 and a half years to reach this point, so I'm going to follow what I think is a nice tradition and post some details about myself. Sorry if I get long winded. If you've read all 1999 of my other posts (hah!), you probably know all this anyway.
I grew up in North Carolina, Kentucky, and Virginia. I'm the second oldest of 7 kids - 4 boys and 3 girls. There are about 15 years between my older sister and my youngest brother. My mother's first pregnancy ended in stillbirth, and there were a couple of miscarriages in between my birth and the next child, my sister Kate. So my mother spent the first 20 years of her marriage either pregnant or careing for a newborn. She also worked a full time job as a nurse, working the night shift so she could be home to take care of us during the day. My Dad is intelligent, kind and generous, and completely irresponsible. His career ambitions didn't account for providing for 7 children, so there were years when my mom worked 2 jobs, and one hellish time when I remember her working 3. This was also before the boom in liberal maternity leave. I remember my Mom working right up until she went into labor and getting back to work practically before the umbilical cord dropped off. She would do a pioneer woman proud. Being 13 years older than the youngest of us, I certainly did my share of diaper changing, feeding, and general babysitting. Looking back, it's surprising we all made it out alive. We owe that, I'm sure, to dozens of kind and generous LDS friends. Hillary Clinton would probably be surprised to realize that the Mormons have always known that it takes a village. By today's standards my family was practically a village itself.
My parents fought a lot. We had lots of good times, but in my memory the brightest ones are all connected with weeks and months of arguing. Mostly the arguements were about finances and child rearing, though they often devolved into simple yelling and throwing things. Throw 7 kids who learn by example into that mix, and you can begin to imagine the chaos. I spent a lot of time in my room, reading, which accounts largely for my literary interests. I learned quite a lot about 1000 different subjects, but didn't seem to pick up any decent social skills. I was a loner. Throughout my childhood, I usually had one really good friend and the rest of my peers were just acquaintances. I was fat and nerdy and picked on a lot.
Despite the turmoil that seemed to grow as the family grew, my parents did try to raise us all as good Mormons. I always tried to be a good member of the church, and though I was far from perfect, I always truly wanted to live life as I thought God wanted me to. I didn't drink or smoke or swear. I always knew I would be a missionary for the church and looked forward to the opportunity. I tried to save up the money needed, and took 3 years of Spanish in high school, hoping to be called to serve in South America. I truly sought to know if the Mormon Church really was the True Church of Jesus Christ and spent many hours studying the scriptures each week. I participated in every church program open to me. I prayed daily. Many of the prayers were for my family and their problems, but I also prayed sincerely to know the truth of the things I was learning. "Ask and ye shall receive" as it were. I prayed for the "witness" of the Holy Spirit and tried to build a testimony of the gospel. I listened, perhaps with more than a little envy to the people in church who bore testimony that they knew that God lived, that the LDS church was His Church, and that Jospeph Smith was His Prophet called to restore His Gospel. I believed all that, but never really felt more than an intellectual belief. I felt a very sincere hope that it was all true, but I always had my nagging doubts.
I got my mission call to Brazil, where, of course, they speak Portuguese. My mission was a pivotal experience for me. I lost weight so quickly (50 lbs in two months) that my mission president's wife thought I was sick. In reality, I was just eating like a normal person and riding a bike in tropical heat all day. It was also on my mission that I became less of a loner socially. I quickly fell in love with the people and the language. I also fell in love with a couple of my missionary companions, though I didn't recognize it for what it was at the time. (It's funny how I can look back on most of my life now and interpret it from two different perspectives.) My mission was a great experience for me. Oddly enough, however, I can trace the beginnings of my disillusionment with the Church to some of my experiences as a missionary. (But that's another story altogether.)
At any rate, I served two years in Brazil and returned home in July with an acceptance to BYU waiting for me in the mailbox. Ironically, however, it was that year that my Dad, for no particular reason beyond procrastination, had failed to file his taxes on time and therefore missed all the deadlines for any financial aid. I ended up taking out a signature loan (a bank loan with basically credit-card level interest) and enrolled in the local community college. I quickly discovered that I had returned to a home more broken and twisted than I had left it. Coming from a zone of comfort and love and growing self-esteem in Brazil to the arguments and pent up frustrations of my parent's home was horrifying. I was trying to go to school with no money and no financial aid. I was taking a full load of classes and working a full-time job to make my loan payments. Trying to save, if not my parents' marriage, at least my mother's sanity, I found myself getting caught up more and more in the middle of their arguments.
So I joined the Air Force. I became a Korean Crypto-linguist, and after a 6 week stint in the bizarre institution called Air Force Basic Training I spent one of the best years of my life in Monterrey, CA, at the Defense Language Institute. It was near the end of this year that I was hurt deeply by a group of friends whom I trusted and loved. (Again, another story altogether.) Painful as the experience was, it was probably the catalyst that in the end helped me recognize and eventually accept my homosexuality. I finished tech school in TX, and then spent the next two years in Korea at Osan Air Force Base. As much as Brazil was a time of growth and nurturing for me, Korea was a long spiral into disillusionment, despair, and near self destruction. I came as close to suicide in Korea as I've ever come in my life. It was in Korea that my growing struggle with my sexuality came to a head. It was there that I began to seek help for what I thought at the time was a sickness and a spiritual failing.
For two years, (in Korea and while I was stationed at Ft. Meade, MD) I fought desperately to hold onto my beliefs - in God, Jesus, and the LDS Church - and to renounce, exorcise, or somehow "cure" myself of my homosexuality. In the end, it was my religious belief that lost. I'd feel bad if I thought it was my sexual nature that killed my belief in God, but I truly don't believe that is the case. I believe it was finding the strength to finally quit grasping at religious straws and troubling deaf heaven with my cries that allowed me to accept my sexuality and move forward. I have never regretted that decision.
Shortly thereafter, I met Douglas, moved to Baltimore, got a great job, finished my term with the Air Force, and have generally added a couple of good chapters to my life over the last nine years. I can't say that I haven't made any mistakes or that I have no regrets, but overcoming my religious upbringing isn't one of them. I still try to respect others who hold such beliefs. I can understand where they are coming from, and respect the importance religion plays in their lives. But my post-god life has been so much better in so many ways than my life ever was before that I can't regret no longer being able to share what good others still can find there.
Anyway, this has been far longer, I'm sure, than most of you will want to read, so I'll close by saying that I really love Hatrack. This is such a great group of people. The Cards should be proud of having created an environment that draws in so many kind and generous people. Thank you.
And thanks to anyone who's read this far.
KarlEd
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Wow. Just, wow.
KarlEd, I think you are strong, wounded, and fantastic. I am glad that you made it to the other side, into happiness. I'm proud to know you.
I want to know more.
Thank you.
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
Wow. I'd always known you were a cool guy, but I had no idea you had done so much. Crypto-linguistics and everything. Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
KarlEd, that was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Fantastic post—powerful stuff.
The part where you talk about moving back home after your mission really struck home with me, because I had a similar experience after taking off half a year in college to work in Tennessee, and again (to a lesser extent) after failing to find work in South Carolina, when I moved back in with my parents for about 6 months.
The part where you discussed struggling to find your sexual identity also resonated with me, though for different reasons.
I have always found your posts to be meaningful, quality exporessions. I hope you stick around for a long time. Selfishly, I wish you would post more frequently. I think you definitely add to our diversity here.
Congratulations!
Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
I second what jexx said.
Congrats on 2000!
I'm really glad you're a part of Hatrack.
Thanks for the wonderful post Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Deep sigh. (I love a good true-life story.) You've come a long way - and I am sure from the resilience you show in your post, you will go as far as you ever dreamed of going! Great post!
Posted by Caleb Varns (Member # 946) on :
Great post, Karl. Stick around and make a couple thousand more.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
Great story, Karl. And man! Congratulations on finding Douglas so quickly!! Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
More confirmation for me that Karl is badass. Thanks for sharing part of yourself with us.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
KarlEd, you were one of the first posters that I noticed when I came here - mostly because I always suspected you of being my brother. How many guys named Karl Ed can there be in Baltimore area? (Obviously, there are at least two)
Congratulations on a wonderful post and all that proceeded it and please forgive me if I insist on continuing to believe that you are my brother...
:looks at KarlEd suspiciously: That's not your real hair color is it? Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Congrats on 2k. I've always enjoyed reading your posts, and it's nice knowing you can share a piece of your life with us. *hug*
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
It's good to have you around Karl. You add a flavor and point of view to Hatrack that is very valuable I think. It saddens me that your experiences with the church and your family turned out as they did, but I am glad that you are living a happy life now.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Pleased to make your (deeper) acquaintance, KarlEd:)
You impress with your strength and tenacity. True strength doesn't come from letting nothing trouble ourselves, but from triumphing over what does trouble us.
It's strange how life works, isn't it? After a years-long period of despair and trouble, you (relatively) quickly found happiness, although not perfect happiness (when is it ever perfect?). I am glad you did-clearly you've earned it, and something in your presence on Hatrack that I can see leads me to believe your suffering wasn't in vain-hot iron on the forge, as it were.
I don't envy you your past suffering, but I do envy that you have managed to overcome it so completely, without becoming bitter or hateful:)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Thank you for sharing. This is wonderful.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
You're one of the people whose posts I always enjoy. Thanks for writing a really long one.
But didn't anyone ever teach you that it's not nice to keep alluding to "other stories" that you're not going to tell? It gets the insatiably curious people all worked up!
Congratulations on 2000 posts. Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
Wonderful post, Karl. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Happy 2000th post!
~Jane~
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Wow KarlEd, thank you so much. Your story parallels mine in some interesting ways. I'll have to get around to writing a landmark thread one of these days, and I hope it can be half as concise and yet deep as your own.
AJ
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
What dkw said. I think there is a part of some people that will always want to know 'and then what'?
That was a great post and I am very happy you have found happiness. I hope you find a lot more.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
(((KarlEd)))
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Great post, Karl.
Being from the Monterey area, I saw DLI in your post and wanted to make a snide comment (nothing personal, it's just a requirement for Monterey locals), but then you had to go and write a serious, insightful post that had its share of pain and beauty. So of course my plans were ruined.
I continue to be amazed at how willing people are to be so vulnerable while here. It's a real testament to the community.
So as long as you don't have one of those DLI t-shirts that says "I learn [obscure language] because you can't," you're ultra-cool. (Sorry, I couldn't help it. It's in the rules.)
Well, maybe even if you do have one. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Can I get one of those t-shirts with English as the language?
KarlEd, I so enjoy your posts. We disagree on some fundamental things, but we can respect each other and appreciate each other, and that's cool.
I shudder to think where my landscaping would be without you. I'm glad you're here at hatrack. Best wishes for 2000 more great posts!
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Thanks for the beautiful post, KarlEd. For different reasons, I know what it is to struggle with belief and the church. While a lot of the theology resonates deeply with me, and I am still trying to fit it into my life - and believe that I need it in my life - there are some things that are just hard for me to deal with.
I always look forward to your posts; they are often some of the the most thought-provoking on the forum. You are just way too cool, KarlEd.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Karl, wonderful post...
Thank you. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Thanks for all the kind words, everyone.
quote:We disagree on some fundamental things, but we can respect each other and appreciate each other, and that's cool.
That's one of the things I appreciate about you, too, Belle.
Saxon - I don't have one of those T-shirts. I always thought they were rude. I did have one that said "Defence Language Institute" in Korean, and one that said "I survived the '89 quake. Still waiting for the Big One!" though.
As for my "other stories", well, I felt like my post was too long to be read much already. Maybe I'll post them later on here if there is interest.
And with that I will quit basking in my 2000-ness and move on to post 2001.
[ May 13, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
quote:As for my "other stories", well, I felt like my post was too long to be read much already. Maybe I'll post them later on here if there is interest.
There is interest. Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
(((KarlEd)))
what a great post!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
KarlEd, there's definitely interest.
Post away...
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
*thirds Ophelia and Strider*
post, damn you! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I generally don't post on landmark post threads, not because I don't appreciate them, but just because I can rarely think of anything worth saying in reply. This time, though I can: tell us more! Of course there's interest! Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Noemen...i'm with you. I even started a thread to that affect.
This is like a double landmark occasion. Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Thanks KarlEd. I, too, have always enjoyed your posts and your facility with the language. I am happy for you that you have found peace in your life and hope that I can come to terms with my own religious struggles as well as you seem to have.
Posted by BebeChouette (Member # 4991) on :
Fascinating post. I love life because it is hard and takes a lot of thinking. But KarlEd if everything is resolved and you are happy does that mean that you will only think contented thoughts? Will there be no more quest?
Anyway, where are you in Baltimore? We just sold little townhome on Keswick Rd right accross the park from the JHU campus. We loved it there.
Bebe
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
(((((KarlEd)))))
You've always been one of my favorite 'rackers, since back in the Bonduca days. <grin>
Side note to Nero: Lyrsa's got your back. Or whatever portion of you that Slash doesn't have. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
This is the first time I've replied to a landmark thread too (that I remember, can't guarantee that), and I also wouldn't mind knowing more. You've inspired me to start digging up landmark posts to get to know folks better. It's very interesting. I've done the Monterey-Texas-MD loop, but as a dependent/wife Loved that term. Anyway, I'll be checking back for more!
Tricia
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
You can get to pretty much all of them right here, pooka.
And I'm also interested in the other stories, KarlEd. Please elaborate.
--Pop
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I'm writing one of them now. You'll all be sorry. It's longer than my original post and I'm not done yet.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I doubt I'll be sorry. I have enjoyed and re-read Icarus's 1,000th, which is the longest post I can recall ever having seen at Hatrack. If you beat that one in length, I'll be awfully impressed -- and I'll still read the whole thing.
--Pop
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
KarlEd, this post was great. I'm really looking forward to reading more about life from your perspective.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
I appreciate your honesty. It's easy to befriend people. It's hard letting them get to know the real "you".
You're giving Hatrack a chance to know the real KarlEd. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
That's a scary thought. Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
KarlEd--
I've always wondered about your story, because I knew you had been raised in the church, served a mission, and came out of the closet during the course of your life. Now I know. I admire you for your strength to set things right in your life.
And like Jacare, I"m sorry things didn't work out in the church.
I'm interested in knowing about how you look back on the people you converted to the church now that you've left it behind. Do you keep in touch with them?
Anyway, wonderful post.....
Pat
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Karl is also my hizzo.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Posted by policyvote (Member # 3044) on :
That was an amazing post, KarlEd. I feel lucky to have read it.
Peace policy
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Great post Karl, and I'll just echo along and say - of course there's interest!!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Well, I planned to finish what I was writing earlier, but I sent it to myself from work and it never arrived. I'll probably finish it in the AM and post it from work.
So I'll answer Pat's question for now.
I didn't baptize great numbers of people on my mission. I did teach more than I can count but I soured quickly on some of the more high-pressure tactics that some of our mission leadership espoused. I met and taught many wonderful people, and several of them joined the church. Over the years I've lost touch with them, largely because I don't know what I would write to them at this point. "Hey, hope you're doing fine. Oh, by the way, I was wrong about the church. . ."
Seriously, though, I've always been a better letter writer than anyone I've corresponded with. Nearly all my penships ended after I wrote the last letter. When I was questioning the church the most, I stopped writing to those with whom the church was really all I had in common. And time passed and relationships faded.
I think I was a good missionary. I had the language down pat and truly loved the people of Brazil. I think that love came through in my conversation and teaching. There are many ways people come into the church and infatuation with an American missionary is, I suspect, a very common and very powerful draw in Brazil. Wise missionaries recognize this and try to build relationships between those investigating the church and strong members who will be around to strengthen ties once the missionary leaves. I have known a lot of Mormons whose testimonies are tied as strongly to those they hold up as examples of piety at least as much as their testimonies are tied to the scriptures or the witness of the Holy Ghost. I cut a lot of ties (not actively, but through neglect) when I was still unsure of my beliefs out of fear of damaging fledgling testimonies that hadn't yet learned to stand on their own. (Writing this it sounds like I had a pretty high opinion of myself, huh? I hope this doesn't sound as cocky to you as it does to me.)
Anyway, how do I feel about them? I miss them. Do I regret bringing them into the church? No. The church unarguably fills a need. And for many, it fills that need well. I used to wonder if I had some responsibility to contact those people and undo the work I couldn't have done in good faith were I to do it from the vantage point I now have. I've decided I don't. Either they have left the church by now on their own, or they are strong within it. If the former, the net effect is almost that I never was there. If the latter, well, they're probably better people for it. Most Mormons I've known really are good people.
The one big regret I do have is that I became good friends with one young Brazilian guy who was already a member of the church. He was almost old enough to become a missionary himself. We'd visit their house a lot and often he'd go with my companion and I to teach people about the church. Anyway, this was one of my last areas of work in Brazil. he wrote to me a lot for months after I had returned to the states. In letters, he confided in me that he had decided he would not go on a mission. I wrote to ask why and he told me that he was very embarrassed about what I might think of him, but that he felt attracted to men. He didn't act on those feelings, but he recognized them all too well. He was afraid that if he went on a mission he would be unable to live in such close quarters with another man without shaming himself or otherwise getting into trouble. I wrote to him and told him that I understood the challenges he was facing, and I advised him to not completely forsake the idea of going on a mission. I told him that he should continue working with his Bishop to overcome those feelings with the goal of becoming a missionary still in his mind. He did and eventually wrote that he received a mission call. I got one letter from him while he was on his mission and then lost contact. I imagine what different advice I might give him were I to have the chance to go back in time knowing what I know now, and I wonder if his life is better or worse now because of my advice. I wrote him a few years ago at the last address I had for him, but I didn't get a reply. I didn't get the letter back either, but anyone who's lived in Brazil will tell you that means nothing. I often find myself thinking about him and wondering if I should try again. I wonder if he's happier because he went on a mission or if he is as lost as many other Mormon homosexuals I've known. That thought depresses me more than I can say.
[ May 13, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
i am also a mere echo - but a smiling one. thanks, karl with a k.
Posted by Manwithnoarms&nolegs (Member # 2363) on :
Thanks for answering my question Karl. I really do appreciate the time you spent in doing that.
-- Pat
Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
quote: I cut a lot of ties (not actively, but through neglect) when I was still unsure of my beliefs out of fear of damaging fledgling testimonies that hadn't yet learned to stand on their own.
I think that that was a very considerate thing to do.
Thanks for sharing more of your life with us Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I really enjoyed reading your stories, KarlEd. Thanks so much for sharing them with us. You are very special.
**Ela**
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
I also really enjoyed them-you're one of the people I most respect and admire on here-you're always very nice and your posts insightful, and always well worth reading. and you make jewelry happy 2000, and thanks for your story
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Wow. How very hard. I'd like to think I can get an inkling (a very small one, almost miniscule) of how you may have felt, battling between your sexuality and your religion. My very best friend is doing that right now. (I'm not doing the 'me-as-my-friend thing, it is my friend.) It doesn't help that her mother seems to think that churching the gay out of her is the best way to go. That woman is insane.
I'm glad you had the chance to decide on your own, and I hope my friend has that opportunity someday soon. I wish you good luck in your future endeavors, and hope to better make your acquaintance on the board. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Karl, it's my belief that the lack is in us, the people of God's church, and not in you. I believe that when our hearts and spirits are ready, we will receive the revelation that God did not make a mistake when he made you gay. Forgive us for not being ready now. I can only imagine the hurt that must have caused you growing up.
Line by line, precept by precept. When we show that we've learned what we have, we are given more. I pray that the church will become ready to receive this revelation soon.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
ak, I appreciate your sentiment and the kindness in which it is intended. I wonder, though, if the church could ever embrace homosexuals without losing something integral. I know this issue is often compared by some to the exclusion of blacks from the priesthood and how that changed over time, but I personally don't think the situation is enough alike to hold faith in a similar change toward gays. That's probably a discussion that could support a thread all it's own.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Well, I'm hesitant to tell the story of my mission, at least in terms of how it relates to my disillusionment with the church, for fear of perhaps offending some of the LDS Hatrackers, not the least of which our kind host. Maybe I'll save that one until I'm sure I can do it respectfully.
So, I'll tell the other one I allude to above, instead.
Growing up I was the type of person to latch on to one friend, often to the exclusion of others, especially male friends. At this point in my life this wasn't a sexual thing at all. I'm a little different now in that I can not only appreciate a friendship, but I can also appreciate the friendships my friends have with one another, which for me was a ground-breaking discovery. (Thank you C.S. Lewis.) Anyway, as I review my early friendships, I see them as a series of very close relationships. I always hung around with my "best friend" who I thought was really cool and hoped he liked me as much. By the time I became a missionary, this translated into some very intense feelings of brotherhood (or at least what I think idealized brotherhood is). I had a couple of missionary companions I'd gladly have given my life to, if that were required. (I wonder now if they knew that.)
I've lived in many different places over the years, but at most times in my life I had a special friend I could confide in and spend time with. Luckily for me these guys were always pretty good guys, and usually made me want to be the best person I could be, though I usually felt I fell far short.
When I got to DLI in Monterrey, I met a guy named Randy. He was in the Army studying Chinese. I was in the Air Force studying Korean. I met him at church on one of my first Sundays at DLI. He had been a missionary in Japan. He had a girlfriend who was on her mission in South Africa at the time. We would hang out after classes and whenever one of us didn't have some military duty that prevented it. We went to all the young adult functions at church together. We looked enough alike that people would often mistake us for brothers. We'd meet in the mornings to go running and in the evening to go for walks around the post or down to the wharf. We'd talk about the future and what roles we saw ourselves in. We were like really close brothers. Admittedly I was probably in love with him, but I was so repressed that sex with him was not even a dark secret fantasy. I occasionally heard people comment on how Randy and I always hung out together, but I never thought anything untoward was being implied.
There was a family in the ward (local Mormon congregation) who lived in NCO housing on the base, David and Tina. They had a toddler son with some developmental problems, yet they kept their house open to all the LDS young men and women in the military who were stationed at DLI. They were generous and kind. They always cooked like they were expecting guests and usually had them. They also weren't above playing match-maker from time to time. (Though that was more Tina's hobby than David's.) They were the kind of people that made you want to do things for them and see them smile. Randy and I were always over at their house. We pooled our spending money to buy them a Christmas tree when we knew they were considering going without one year. (NCOs don't make a lot of money). We arranged to baby-sit and bought them tickets to a lecture we'd heard they were interested in. In short, they were like a dream family away from home. They inspired a poem that is one of the ones I'm most proud of artistically. (I'll share it if I can find it when I get home)
There was another young woman in our young adult group at church. Her name was Beth. She was a gregarious, loudish personality, but she was a lot of fun. She was kind and generous person. However, she had pretty low self esteem which wasn't helped by the fact that she was a bit over-weight. She was a local (not military) so she knew the area well and was always organizing beach parties and trips to San Francisco or some such thing. She fell in with Randy and I and we became pretty good friends. At one point she lost her job and was living with David and Tina as a house guest for a few months. Tina also had weight issues and shared many of the same self-esteem issues because of it. They became fast friends.
Life was as close to paradise as I'd ever experienced it for nearly my entire stay in Monterrey, that is until Beth started falling in love with Randy. Things got a bit weird then because Beth would try to arrange time alone with Randy, and he'd always bring me along. I admit that I would probably have felt hurt or left out if he hadn't, but Randy confided in me that he wasn't interested in anything beyond friendship with Beth and didn't really want to spend time alone with her. He had a girlfriend (the one in South Africa, whom he eventually married), anyway. In retrospect he probably should have been more direct with her, but he genuinely like her, as did I, and neither of us wanted to hurt her feelings. (I can describe this "triangle" in these terms from this vantage point, but at the time I was largely ignorant of the depth of the feelings involved here).
Anyway, this went on for some time until one evening Randy and I and a couple of other military LDS got together and went to the movies or something (what exactly it was I don't remember and the place in my mind where it once was has been cauterized by subsequent events). At any rate, it was an impromptu thing that was communicated through meetings between classes and no one thought to contact Beth.
The next day I was invited to stop by the David and Tina's for lunch between classes. When I got there I felt that something was up, but didn't know what, exactly. Tina was clearly frustrated and banging the pots on the stove as she cooked, and poor David was trying to make casual conversation but looked like a man sitting on a grenade. I asked Tina if she was OK, and the rest of the next hour is, to this day, still a blur. She turned to me with a look that would freeze lava and just exploded. "How could you be so insensitive? Beth is a wonderful girl and deserves to be included in the group. Why are you always insinuating yourself between her and Randy. Why do the two of you parade yourselves around like a couple of faggots? I don't know if you've started anything sexual yet, that's between you and the bishop, but you're sinning in your hearts at the very least." This went on and on and on. She continued non-stop about how homosexuality was destroying the church. How good women couldn't find good LDS men because of it. When I started to protest, to explain that what Randy and I shared was not homosexual or evil, she would have none of it. She reiterated that it didn't have to be sexual to be improper and that "everyone" thought our friendship was too close. She wouldn't tell me whom, exactly, but she assured me the impression was widespread. She told me that I was working for the devil keeping Randy and Beth apart because Beth had prayed and been told that she should pursue a relationship with Randy. Clearly God wanted them to be together and I was corrupting him, keeping him from realizing God's will, etc.
I was stunned. I felt like I had been disowned by my family with no warning. I really loved these people, but the anger in Tina's voice was clear. I left without eating and went back to class. Clearly I couldn't talk to anyone about this, but I must have looked pretty ill because our sergeant sent me to the dispensary to be checked out. I was shaking and felt like I had gone hollow inside. The staff at the dispensary sent me back to the barracks to bed.
Later, Tina was sorry for what she said. I explained that she had the wrong impression (which at the time I was sure she had, though now I guess she was at least partially right in her estimation of my tendencies.) We tried to patch things up, but I left for my assignment 6 or 8 weeks later and our relationship never had time to really recover. I remained fast friends with Randy for a couple of years after that, and still friends to some degree with Beth, though she later confided in me that although she was mortified that Tina would say what she said, she really did believe God wanted her to pursue Randy and that things would have been different if it weren't for my friendship with him.
Tina will never know how profoundly she wounded me. Part of that hurt, I think, is because deep down inside I was insecure enough to believe she might have been right. It was because of her tirade that I began to seriously examine my relationships with other men, to question why I felt the closeness I felt to my male friends when only rarely was that kind of closeness returned. Ironically, to this day I believe that what Randy and I had was an ideal brotherhood kind of relationship rather than a budding homosexual one. I think it was good and honest for what it was even as I recognize that there may have been some deep-seated baser attraction on my part. I'm not really interested in the Freudian possibilities of it at this point. Randy is happily married with a whole passel of kids. We've talked some about Monterrey and what happened there. I still feel like we're close and I believe he feels good about our closeness then, too, though he is not gay and is still very active in the LDS church. It's strange, but I think it was my increased introspection caused by Tina's misconception of our friendship that helped me recognize and eventually come to accept myself as a gay man.
Anyway, I warned you this would be a long one.
[ May 14, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote: I wonder, though, if the church could ever embrace homosexuals without losing something integral.
Speaking not as a Mormon, but as a lapsed Catholic, I don't see why not.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Nor do I. No more than it loses by embracing childless couples or single people. And I believe there is much for it to gain.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
thanks again for sharing, Karl Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
quote: she later confided in me that although she was mortified that Tina would say what she said, she really did believe God wanted her to pursue Randy and that things would have been different if it weren't for my friendship with him.
I don't want to hijack this lovely thread. But ,I'm confused when people make statements like this. Was Beth unaware that Randy had a girlfriend? I have never thought God wanted me to pursue a relationship. I tend to think that a person is fun, nice, and interesting and want to get to know them better. And I can't imagine that God would want me to cause someone else pain to gain happiness. I just don't understand that idea at all. Can someone help me by maybe expounding on it a little?
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Thanks for sharing this story of miles traveled and the journey yet to go.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Karl,
I don't know if I have the words to express how I feel about your story, but thank you for sharing it.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through something like this. Although I suppose that if it helped you, however indirectly, to accept yourself then maybe it is all for the best.
I have to ask, though: have you really accepted that part of yourself? You have said several times in this thread that you have, but your stories make it seem like you have a lot of lingering guilt.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
What I think I have is lingering regret more than guilt. And when I revisit the incident above I discover there is still a bit of bitterness. I don't dwell on it. I go years without ever even thinking of it. And I can intellectually accept that I may be a better person for it, ultimately. But that doesn't necessarily lessen the sense of betrayal and misdirected anger. And it doesn't excuse the the cause, either, really. Again, I don't dwell on this or actively harbor anger or bitter feelings. Part of my personality though is I have a really hard time getting over things unless I can talk them out. (This gives Douglas hell because he is exactly the opposite.) And I can't rebuild the bridges or heal the relationship because I have no idea where these people are. From time to time I do an internet search, but so far I've come up with nothing.
It's like it's the last snapshot I have of them in my memory photo album and I need a new and happier one to replace it.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Incidentally, here is the poem inspired by the kindness Dave and Tina showed to many of us at DLI. I wrote it in December and gave them a framed copy I wrote out on caligraphy parchment as a Christmas present.
God, Bless and keep the keepers of this home For they have kept The Master's lambs from harm, Providing pasture that they need not roam And giving food and shelter from the storm. God, bless them for the love they freely give To those of us who travel through the night, For never more in darkness need we live When they have left Love's beacon burning bright. And Father, in they blessing help them know The Master Shepherd sees the work they do; And help their faith as humble servants grow, That one day they may see Thy face anew. No greater work on earth could e'er be done For they are proxy-shepherds of Thy Son. -Karl Jennings (Dec. 1989)
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
quote: And I can't rebuild the bridges or heal the relationship because I have no idea where these people are. From time to time I do an internet search, but so far I've come up with nothing.
It's like it's the last snapshot I have of them in my memory photo album and I need a new and happier one to replace it.
*indentifies*
Again, thank you for sharing your experiences. (The poem is beautiful, too.)
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
That's great Karl. I love your stories. Understanding things "intellectually" and accepting them "emotionally" are two different things, aren't they? It sucks when you can do one and not the other.
Man, that poem reminded me of a line from the movie Zero Effect. Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
OK, now I've got to know what the line is.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Daryl: "Did you see that poem Stark wrote in college, An Ode To Clarissa? That's the worst poetry I've read since the case of the Shrinking Gypsy Stripper's scribblings. Tell me this: How do you rhyme 'towards' and 'birds'?
'Dropping, falling, diving towards . . . 2 lovers lost, plummeting. . . birds'? They don't rhyme."
Jake: "Maybe it's not supposed to rhyme."
Daryl: "Also. . . How do you write a poem about a woman named Clarissa and never have the name in the poem? If ever there was a name that deserved and begged to be in a poem, it's Clarissa."
Man, I love that movie. I wish more people would have seen it so they would have made a sequel. That is a movie that have dozens of sequels. Oh, well, not everyone is a crazy as Daryl, therefore lack the appreciation for him. Sigh.
Not that it really has anything to do with your poem, which is lovely. (So, totally not the worst poem I've ever read by a long shot, that was just part of the line.) It was just the harm/storm thing. . . Towards/birds. . . harm/storm. I couldn't help it! I swear. It just was what popped into my mind.
[edit: expanded the movie quote]
[ May 14, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Kayla ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Yeah, well, even Shakespeare had to stretch one every once in a while.
<ponders> Ya know, I wonder if they still have the copy I gave them. If so, I wonder what their memories are of our time together.
[ May 14, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: KarlEd ]
Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
Thanks again for sharing that with us, Karl. *hugs*
*wants to say more, but doesn't know how to put it into words*
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Loved that term. Anyway, I'll be checking back for more!![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)