Should I not be posting this? Because nobody seems to be showing as much excitement to finally see a cast being lined up for this long awaited production as this topic intends. If I'm crossing boundaries I don't mean to offend, but my biggest concern is the amount of emphasis they will put on the Fantasy Game. After all, that is probably the most important aspect of the rest of Ender's life. It is, to my understanding, how Jane or "the bridge" came to be. If I'm wrong correct me. Ender's life is Epic and completely selfless. And yet there is an almost parallel story that is in it's own way just as tragic, but without so much selflessness. Of course I'm talking about Bean. I know I'm pushing my luck, I'm lucky enough to even see one Ender movie come out in my lifetime, but I wish so bad that I would hear about some attempt to persuade them to just shoot two movies. Ender's Shadow and the following books are way too great to be kept in the dark. I've ranted enough I suppose, I hope this post remains and someone responds to something in it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
No offense. It's just that we have had not just year but DECADES of posts about this, and then nothing came if it.
Posted by Robert Scott Lewis (Member # 12770) on :
Well something is coming from it, and it is either gonna be really epic or a huge flop and I'm really hoping for the former. But now that it is being done, since it took so long and in this wonderful era of cinema, maybe it will actually be done right.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I would be surprised to see the fantasy game play much of a role.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
My expectations are low for it. The script is supposedly pretty solid, but they've dropped whole characters (or merged them) because there are so many in the book. I'd expect other changes as well. There's also the fact that it's being directed by the guy who made Wolverine, and that movie was horrible. The effects were decent, certainly, but the acting was flacid and the script was terrible.
I really hope Ender's Game is good, but I'm not holding my breath. It is extremely rare that a movie based on anything is good, unless of course the company sinks a tremendous amount of funding into it and hires all the right people. I'm kind of expecting another Wing Commander.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Robert Scott Lewis: it is either gonna be really epic or a huge flop
It being neither is more likely!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Attitude: mildly curious Expectations: none
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
He'll lose to a baneling rush.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Robert Scott Lewis: If you're looking for a community excited and willing to discuss the up-to-the-minute development of the film, feel free to check out http://www.philoticweb.net Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by Taalcon: Robert Scott Lewis: If you're looking for a community excited and willing to discuss the up-to-the-minute development of the film, feel free to check out http://www.philoticweb.net
This is true.
I guess the people here are more excited about OSC's novels, rather than this film. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll all probably see it and talk about it when it gets released, but it's so far off right now that there's not a whole lot we can say about it. Nothing new, anyway.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Since the decision has been taken to cast neither Jake Lloyd nor Haley Joel Osment as Ender, and they haven't even cast Dakota Fanning as Valentine, I think everyone's just far too disappointed to work up any enthusiasm for the movie.
Posted by dansigal (Member # 12661) on :
Frankly, I think its all a matter of perception, and people will not like the movie if they don't go into it with the right perception. You are focused on the fantasy game because it is important to Ender's life in events AFTER Ender's Game. But they aren't making the entire series, and they likely never will. Those books are irrelevent to this movie, because for all intents and purposes, they don't exist. They are making Ender's Game. Is the fantasy game critical to story being told in Ender's Game? The truth is, probably not. Sure, it plays a significant role in Ender's game, but you can effectively tell the story that the book tells without focusing on, or even really including the fantasy game.
And that brings me back to my point of perspective. People tend to judge a movie adaotuib on how similar it is to the book, but that's a mistake. A movie adaption isn't an attempt to mimic a book, its an attempt to essentially tell the same story that the book is telling, but in a different medium. In that regard, a movie is its own separate entity. So that should be the focus, has it told the same story of Ender's Game and has it told it well? It doesnt matter if some characters have been eliminated or merged and it doesn't matter if some details are different. If its a good movie and the story rings true to the book, I will be happy with it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Since the decision has been taken to cast neither Jake Lloyd nor Haley Joel Osment as Ender, and they haven't even cast Dakota Fanning as Valentine, I think everyone's just far too disappointed to work up any enthusiasm for the movie.
Hahaha, what? If they cast Jake Lloyd or Haley Joel Osment as Ender, I would think that they had lost their flipping minds.
Posted by Robert Scott Lewis (Member # 12770) on :
I could care less about big name actors who, by the way, are too old to play these characters. And I guess it is conceivable that the fantasy game won't play much of a role in the movie, but I just wouldn't see how else the movie would end. And I think that Card wouldn't have let "the guy who made wolverine" do this movie if he didn't think it would get done right. It WAS a long time coming. I'm not looking for the book on the screen, I'm looking for an accurate depiction of who Ender is.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Since the decision has been taken to cast neither Jake Lloyd nor Haley Joel Osment as Ender, and they haven't even cast Dakota Fanning as Valentine, I think everyone's just far too disappointed to work up any enthusiasm for the movie.
Hahaha, what? If they cast Jake Lloyd or Haley Joel Osment as Ender, I would think that they had lost their flipping minds.
Aw, darn. I thought we still did sarcasm on this forum. I was just pointing out that we were all actually semi-excited for this movie way back when these guys were age appropriate. I remember back in 2003 or so, when there was an Ender movie thread every couple of weeks.
ETA - Thanks for the pics though. I had no idea that aging was a process.
[ February 01, 2012, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Bella Bee ]
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
It's OK Bella, I got the sarcasm.
*pats hand*
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Thank you. My breathing is slowly getting back to normal after the shock.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Aw, darn. I thought we still did sarcasm on this forum
Arg! Well done.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Bella 2, Samp 0.
*pat pat*
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
That's a very redacted score count. very.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Aw, darn. I thought we still did sarcasm on this forum
Arg! Well done.
Wow, Samp, I never figure you to be one who would fall head-long into the sar-chasm!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Everyone does. This isn't even my first time on hatrack.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Aw, darn. I thought we still did sarcasm on this forum
Arg! Well done.
Bazinga!
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Robert Scott Lewis: it is either gonna be really epic or a huge flop
It being neither is more likely!
It's also possible to be both. See: Transformers.
Posted by dansigal (Member # 12661) on :
Some news and an interesting update/take on how the Fantasy Game will be used in the movie.
New characters worry me quite a bit.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
If OSC hadn't been such a stubborn control freak, the movie would've been made twenty years ago and we could currently be getting excited about the remake. Plus he'd have twice as much money.
Anywho, my feeling is that the more he's involved with it, the worse it will be. I'll still see it, of course, because contempt prior to investigation is not a way to go through life.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
Viola Davis won't be playing a new character, she'll be playing a gender-inverted version of Major Anderson, who, if I recall correctly, was in charge of managing the battle room games. Since when I first read Ender's Game, I imagined Major Anderson as a woman for a while (most of his scenes are in the exchanges at the beginning of chapters where there is no narrative besides the dialogue), I have no problem with casting Anderson as a woman.
It's likely the Fantasy Game will have a minor role if it has any. Maybe the Anderson/Graff exchanges will show them looking at footage from Ender's gameplay and discussing what it could mean, but I doubt it will go anywhere beyond that.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I actually think this is a necessary addition. Those "men behind the curtain" scenes were great in the book, but in a movie it would just be silly. Adding this character would give new depth to the film, which is a good thing. The problem comes in the execution, but that's how it is for everything.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
C3PO is right. It's not a new character. It's Major Anderson. OSC had Anderson as a woman as long back as in his 1999 draft of the screenplay.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: Viola Davis won't be playing a new character, she'll be playing a gender-inverted version of Major Anderson, who, if I recall correctly, was in charge of managing the battle room games. Since when I first read Ender's Game, I imagined Major Anderson as a woman for a while (most of his scenes are in the exchanges at the beginning of chapters where there is no narrative besides the dialogue), I have no problem with casting Anderson as a woman.
It's likely the Fantasy Game will have a minor role if it has any. Maybe the Anderson/Graff exchanges will show them looking at footage from Ender's gameplay and discussing what it could mean, but I doubt it will go anywhere beyond that.
I think the byplay between Ford and a younger, black and female superior will be interesting, and do a lot to develop Graff as a character- and Graff is of course our main insight into Ender himself.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
There would have to be a studio and a director interested first. When are we gonna get to see a script?
Can Orson be rewritten?
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by odouls268: Woah woah, wait wait...
There's going to be a movie?
Slow down here. I'm not buying it.
There would have to be a studio and a director interested first. When are we gonna get to see a script?
Can Orson be rewritten?
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you are joking.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Graff is a Colonel, he is Anderson's superior officer, it is Admiral Hermanjinnangariihavenoideahwathisnameisdude who is his superior, the Polemarch from the International Fleet.
Who the audio book made a New Yorker from Brooklyn AAAAAAAAAAARGH :argh: He's Indian!!
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you are joking.
No, dingdangit, I am NOT joking. I want to see the script first! That way, if I don't approve of the script, I can just write my OWN version and post it online. I might even shop my version around to some studios and see whose version wins the day!
Lord knows we don't want the Buggers being movie adapted into some kind of furry bear like wookie wannabes, or to have it revealed in the first act that Ender isn't playing a game.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Taalcon: C3PO is right. It's not a new character. It's Major Anderson. OSC had Anderson as a woman as long back as in his 1999 draft of the screenplay .
Never heard of it. Sounds like a bogus accusation to me.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: This is true.
I guess the people here are more excited about OSC's novels, rather than this film. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll all probably see it and COMPLAIN about it when it gets released.
Fixed. You're welcome.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Graff is a Colonel, he is Anderson's superior officer, it is Admiral Hermanjinnangariihavenoideahwathisnameisdude who is his superior, the Polemarch from the International Fleet.
Who the audio book made a New Yorker from Brooklyn AAAAAAAAAAARGH :argh: He's Indian!!
Actually this was my source of confusion. Shamrajnigar is voiced by Gabriel De Quer (with what sounded to me like a Long Island accent, rather than Brooklyn, but yeah), and when I listened to it, I forgot whether Graff was talking to Anderson or Shamrajnigar- the only context given is that Shamrajnigar gives orders to Graff, and Anderson takes orders from Graff. So I forgot that Anderson is a major, under Graff.
Adding to the confusion, in the 20th anniversary edition, Graff was voiced primarily by Stefan Rudniki, but Rudnicki doesn't read the pre-dialogues throughout the book, those are done by somebody else who sounds like William Frakes.
And then later OSC does an atrocious Indian accent for the command school commandant. Still one of the best audiobooks ever made. It's in my top 5 along with Adams' original H2G2, and Thomas Harris' Silence of the Lambs.
And I say that thinking that Amanda Carr is the worst VO reader I've ever heard- being actively repellent as Valentine. But Rudnicki is that good.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm not sure which audio book I was using but yeah. I could tell for sure it was Shamrajnigar when he said "the fleet can handle itself until you get me a commander".
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Taalcon: C3PO is right. It's not a new character. It's Major Anderson. OSC had Anderson as a woman as long back as in his 1999 draft of the screenplay.
For eye candy purposes alone, I'm in favor of this change.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
This movie is definitely happening. It starts filming at the end of this month in Louisiana with Harrison Ford attached as Hyrum Graff, Asa Butterfield as Ender, and a few other interesting choices.
Hmmm I wonder if they will put some pounds on Viola Davis for the the time spent at the cabin to keep with the lone comment about Anderson gaining a little pooch after spending so much time on Earth.
Granted that would be a very odd detail of the book to worry about.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Yeah, I already find it odd that YOU'RE wondering about it.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: Hmmm I wonder if they will put some pounds on Viola Davis for the the time spent at the cabin to keep with the lone comment about Anderson gaining a little pooch after spending so much time on Earth.
Granted that would be a very odd detail of the book to worry about.
I doubt it. It would be nice for the fans, but given that this is a movie, they will probably all look the same throughout the entire film. Look at how they are dealing with the aging of the kids if you need a good example.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
By the way, the EG film started officially filming today.
So, umm, yay Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I have better expectations than it seems most do. Before Wolverine, Gavin Hood made Tsosie. He tried to frame Wolverine's character as like Tsosie, but Ender Wiggin is a much likelier match. Unless he feels he learned his lesson and doesn't try and do that, then who knows what will happen.
If Ender's game does well financially there will probably be sequels running up the Shadow series and so forth.
Posted by MoneyTrouble (Member # 12796) on :
Hello everyone. I am not surprised to find this level of apprehension regarding Ender's Game movie adaptation. Especially since there is no chance anyone would attempt this story using age appropriate actors. But, for the most part, the majority of the audience will not know the difference. We will just have to bite our tongues and be willing to accept what ever license they take with the book. The present cast will be watchable at least, though I am not thrilled with Harrison Ford being in this picture. The casting for Valentine and Petra are fairly good, I would have preferred Chloe Moretz to play Petra.
Well, it's just opinion. What I do hope will come from this is a few more of my favorite stories making the big screen. There is such a wealth of material out there that it angers me sometimes when trying to select something to watch from the drivel that gets made into movies.
I hope the movie is a success for OSC, he has given us many happy hours turning the pages of his books. Best of luck.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
What can we figure out just from looking at the poster?!
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What can we figure out just from looking at the poster?!
That it's coming out in 2013. And that there will be excessive lens flare. Then again, Kurtzman and Orci (Star Trek) couldn't do a sci-fi flick without it. My guess is that it's written into the script as a named character.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: What can we figure out just from looking at the poster?!
That someone with ten free minutes and Photoshop is news worthy.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Well, they paid someone a lot of money for ten minutes work . . . because that poster's genuine.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
I like it. Had they given a bugger, a starship and an Ender it'd look like Alien vs. Alien Reloaded: Next Generation.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: Well, they paid someone a lot of money for ten minutes work . . . because that poster's genuine.
How do I get that job?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
alien vs lensflare
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Like hey there's no information indicating that that very basic poster is official promo stuff and if it is it's just some thing thrown together real early for promo material. in conclusion: lensflare
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Well, as an OSC's fan I am pretty ashamed to admit I do not know whether title's "Game" refers to psychogame or Battleroom. I suppose it's the latter, cause OSC wrote the short story first, about the room. So they could give a Battleroom, and Asa Butterfield in it in a flashsuit. But maybe the movie is more about flashlens...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's both.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I always thought it refered to the (MASSIVE SPOILER) not-game where he didn't realize he was sending real people to their deaths and killing real aliens.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Yeah, I guess that too. So it's all three, I guess. Rivka, I never read the original short story. Is there anything about the psychogame there?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Do we have to spoiler EG plot points?
I always assumed Ender's Game was war.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Don't know if you're joking or not, but I think it's impossible to be on this forum and not have read EG.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: Rivka, I never read the original short story. Is there anything about the psychogame there?
It's been a while, but I think so.
And we certainly have had forum members who had not read EG, but I don't know that we have any currently.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
I just thought that to want to find this forum one must read at least one of OSC's books. Maybe I made a wrong presumption that it was EG. But then, after reading any other book or series one must turn to EG, I think. It's obligatory.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: Rivka, I never read the original short story. Is there anything about the psychogame there?
It's been a while, but I think so.
And we certainly have had forum members who had not read EG, but I don't know that we have any currently.
Actually no. If you recall the afterword (if you read it or listened on audible) to the 20th anniversary edition, OSC talked about how he invented th fantasy game as a way of filling out the story world in his re-write of the short story as a novel. The fantasy game, as I recall from my last reading of the Short story, doesn't appear there. Neither do Dr. Device, or Ender's family.
It stuck with me, because given OSC's own stated method of writing (mental outline to single draft), and yet how successful this atypical example of method was, that he didn't switch to drafting out novels with treatments more often. He has explained that drafting doesn't work for his books, but you could hardly argue that his best book doesn't work.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Oh, psychogame = Fantasy Game! Sorry, did not get that at all.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I always thought that the game in the title was a multilevel reference as there are more then one being played.
You have the actual game of battle school (and command school), with the armies and the flash suits (and simulators).
The mental game between Ender and his teachers, which ultimately, the teachers win.
Also the fantasy game world as well.
And of course the "game" of war which **SPOILERS** Ender doesn't actually know he is playing.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Yeah, that's right, his whole early life is a game and so is the war. But battleroom is easiest to picture on the poster Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: I always thought that the game in the title was a multilevel reference as there are more then one being played.
:literary pontificating ahead:
The "Game" referred to in Ender's Game is a multilevel reference to the various games, physical and psychological, that are played throughout the narrative: Stilson playing "tennis" with Ender, Buggers and astronauts, the mind game, the battle room, the manipulations of Graff and Rakhem, Peter and Valentine on the nets, and the Simulator itself.
It is also an examination (excuse the word: deconstruction) of our basic conceptions of civilization and civilized behavior. The children, though innocent of the complications of adult lives (think: the jokes of the adolescents that Ender doesn't understand), re-enact adult conflicts and power struggles through "play." Though their play is itself very serious and consequential to the outcome of real-world events, the children themselves act only on the instinct for competitiveness and favor-seeking that is natural to children. So while they are, through action, responsible for terrible tragedies, they are not volitionally responsible for the situations that have been created around them. It's sort of like Lord of the Flies, only the children are there at the behest of the adults, and not by accident.
While this may sound like a restatement of "Creating the Innocent Killer," which is a much discussed analysis of the work that I don't necessarily agree with, my view is that the theme is applicable to all levels of the plot. The adults, like the children, are placed by circumstance into situations they can't really control, and in which they act out a script that was written into their being from the beginning. Compete and succeed. It's really about the idea that as a race and a culture, all of humanity is capable of the most deplorable act, of murder and genocide, because life itself is a game which must have winners and losers.
That all set the stage for the final scenes in Speaker for The Dead, in which Human (unsubtly clear reference there) says, to paraphrase: "We know that you gave us great gifts when you could have taken from us what little we did have... But why would you give us these gifts, if you did not mean for us to become great?" To which Ender replies: "You tried to make Libo and Pipo father trees, even though they weren't of your tribe." You can't properly appreciate the overall theme of EG without looking at SftD, because this encapsulates the central argument: namely that competition and otherness will and must always lead to unilateral destruction, and that while cultural difference can lead to violence, cultural seperatism and elitism are far *more* destructive.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Orincoro, you put it really nicely. One thing I sometimes forget about is Ender's name. Having heard and thought about the name so much it's completely stripped of it's meaning in my head, like Andrew. But hey- *Ender's* Game? He sure does finish a lot of stuff.
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