Well, this certainly gives me one more reason to go see Hugo.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
He was good in in The Boy in the Striped Pajamas.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Too old. It's ruined.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
Hogwash.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Wow, he's 14! I thought they weren't making Ender a teenager this time. You could de-age a small twelve year old, but 14 is really pushing it.
Hope he's a good actor, though.
Posted by KirKis (Member # 12454) on :
I can go along with it for now... i'm more interested in who will be casted as Bean.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
I'm surprised that the title of this thread wasn't "Ender's Game Movie Gets Tentative Release Date".
Ehh, the kid looks fine. Hunger Games has a 21 year old playing a sixteen year old.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:The kids are taught a competitive game that’s a cross between the Quidditch matches of Harry Potter and the Jedi light saber battles from Star Wars.
Now that's a movie I'm gonna take seriously!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Did the press release actually say that? I am horrified.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: I'm surprised that the title of this thread wasn't "Ender's Game Movie Gets Tentative Release Date".
We had that one already.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Note: He wasn't "cast", he was reportedly "offered the role". Nothing legal on paper yet is being reported, although if this is legit, there's a good chance he will be cast.
quote:Did the press release actually say that? I am horrified.
That wasn't an official press release - it was from a website's own words reporting on a scoop.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't have a problem with upaging Ender, and the kid still looks really, really young to me. They can pass him off as like 11 or 12, and that's fine.
It's not like they were ever going to find a credible seven year old actor for the role...unless they went back in time, changed his gender, and used Dakota Fanning. The last decade or two has only had an extremely tiny number of toddler actors who can actually pull off playing mature people. There are some great young teen actors out there, but anyone below ten? That's really pushing it.
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
I think this is mostly speculation.
I've tried looking up recent photos of this kid. All I could find was a Youtube video of him from 2010. I'm guessing he was 12/13 in that video (probably in that photo from the link, too), and he could have easily passed as 10-years-old.
But when kids hit puberty, a lot can change in one year. He could be full bearded and 6 feet tall by now.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: It's not like they were ever going to find a credible seven year old actor for the role...
But people like to play pretend that this was what was going to happen!
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Yeah, I don't buy a word of this stuff.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Well, I never expected a six year old. But I fully expected them to find a gifted eleven or twelve year old. That's a great age for acting, between innocence and self-consciousness. With this kind of material, it would be kind of weird to go younger than that and risk freaking the poor child out.
However, this kid turns (checks IMDB) fifteen in April - which for a 2013 release, will have to be at the beginning of filming. I don't imagine he'll pull a Waaalt! from LOST and age incredibly rapidly, but he's not going to pass for ten. I'd be amazed if he passed for twelve (he doesn't look less than twelve in the Hugo trailer, and that will have been filmed at least a year ago).
So, unless they go the CGI de-aging route, which I doubt, he'll be a mid-teen. Which is exactly what OSC always said he absolutely didn't want, ever, at all. Which raises a bunch of interesting questions about the rest of the movie too, and what kind of creative input he had on this. (And reminds me a little of what happened to Susan Cooper and the whole 'Dark is Rising' fiasco).
But I don't expect to dislike the movie for this reason. I even didn't really mind what they did to Faramir in LOTR, because I got why they did it. And I do get why they're doing this. If this kid is amazing, and the script is up to par, I will love this film. It's just surprising.
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
Are those awful writers behind the Transformer films still attached to this?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If they put the Dinobots in Ender's Game I'll go see it five times in theater.
I'm still boycotting Transformers until I get them.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Saw this on facebook and had to come back to hatrack to see if it was a myth or not.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Bonus points: it's being filmed here in New Orleans (atleast partially.)
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
He looks about 12, and seems like the sort of guy who will look 12 until he hits 17 or 18. At least it's not like Glee, where they have 30 year olds pretending to be 15.
Not everyone looks young at 12, either. I was 6' tall and pretty well developed by the time I was 12. People thought I was 17 or 18. By the time I was 17, I still looked the same, and now I look a little younger than my age. And when I was a kid I knew a 6 year old who looked like he was 12. (in another 5 years or so you'll probably see him in the NFL) I see no problem with a 15 year old playing an 11 or 12 year old.
My question is, will the movie try and compress everything into 1 year, or will it be like the short story, and just start at the formation of Dragon Army and fill in the story from there? I kind of like the latter idea - I think the full novel is a little much to fit in a movie, but the short story is the perfect size. It'll also make the time flow by more naturally - IIRC, there's about a year between Dragon Army starting and the destruction of the buggers.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
Also, I'm just waiting for the inevitable press release that says "Harry Potter... IN SPACE!" so I can shoot myself.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: h - IIRC, there's about a year between Dragon Army starting and the destruction of the buggers.
Longer than a year. Ender is 9 when he enters dragon, and 11 when he faces the buggers. There are a few months in dragon, 3 months on earth, 3 months on the tug, one year of training at tactical and then months of traing with the other kids, then the battles. 2 years giveor take.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
Oh, I forgot he spent a year training at tactical... I suppose that can be easily condensed, as OSC glosses over it in a few paragraphs - not much plot related happens.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
They can just give him the Gimli treatment and digitally shrink him, and use younger stand ins for some shots.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: If they put the Dinobots in Ender's Game I'll go see it five times in theater.
*twitch!*
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sa'eed: Are those awful writers behind the Transformer films still attached to this?
I hope they introduce some great urban characters like Skids and Mudflap! Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
I heard they weren't doing any writing, just producing. I really, really, really hope that's true...
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer:
quote:Originally posted by Sa'eed: Are those awful writers behind the Transformer films still attached to this?
I hope they introduce some great urban characters like Skids and Mudflap!
The first bugger invasion begins with a black stereotype greeting vaporized by the bugger scout ship.
Will smith will play Mazer Rackem.
"aw hell naw!"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm rooting for Sam Elliott for Mazer.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
If Mazer's not recognizably Maori, this Hawaii-bred boy will cry.
How 'bout Rawiri Paratene, or an age-makeuped Chris Curtis? They can both play "terrifying trainer" without losing their sensitivity.
5:10 for terrifying Curtis (language warning), 0:00 for softy: http://vimeo.com/10093810 Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I don't remember any hints as to where Mazer was from or his lineage, but then again the only characters who I can remember knowing any country of origin were Vlad, Han Tzu,Petra and Bernard.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
(A multi-racial cast is, I think, a crucial element of the story. I know some things are negotiable in adaptations, but I hope they keep that element of the novel strong!)
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
Also the currently-running Formic Wars comics, in which Mazer is a major figure. And the adaptation of Mazer in Prison, also in comic form, from a couple years back.
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
Oh, and I totally agree about the multi-racial cast. That's kind of OSC's point in the whole "survival of humanity" - not just the American white boy and his family are important.
And if Bean's not Greek/African, I will be very, very sad.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The time Ender is with Peta before Dragon can more or less be skipped, it was there to give him a period of contentment before driving in the screws. Tactical can probably be skipped as well.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You can gloss it without skipping it- that is essentially what the novel does in both cases anyway.
Posted by PhoelixSpaceCat (Member # 12680) on :
A British Ender? Lame
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sa'eed: Are those awful writers behind the Transformer films still attached to this?
That was all Michael Bay. Please IMDB them before your foot gets irrevocably stuck in your mouth (ie Fringe).
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
I have to say, even factoring Michael Bay in, the balance of their other work that I've seen has not led me to be more hopeful.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
To each their own. They are / were critical to the awesomeness that is Bad Robot, and they deserve as much praise as JJ Abrams. Maybe more (Undercovers).
If I had anything negative to say about them, I'd say that they are awesome writers that tend to cater a little to their director or studio.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I'd like to see Ender's Game as a series on HBO. Rather than squeeze it into a 2 hour splodaganza, you can stretch it out and cover all the tidbits that make the book beloved.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I've been saying that for years.
EG has the potential to be among the best miniseries in history, right up there with Band Of Brothers.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I'm in agreement with the miniseries idea, because that way you're not beholden to the necessary movie buildup and payoff cycle which wastes all but about a third of your movie for up-to-speed character and theme exposition, and all that.
Still, though, unless you were able to find a whole cast of really truly miraculous child actors, I'm not going to put series potential at BoB. Just, because .. well, you know.
Posted by Brian J. Hill (Member # 5346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I'd like to see Ender's Game as a series on HBO. Rather than squeeze it into a 2 hour splodaganza, you can stretch it out and cover all the tidbits that make the book beloved.
Yes, but if HBO filmed it, in what parts of the story would they add in the graphic language/violence/sex that is a necessary requirement for all things filmed by HBO? After all, HBO still is desperate to remind people that they're a premium network and you can't get "normal" (i.e. TV 14 and below)network/cable shows on them.
(yes, this is a gross generalization; I realize that HBO does the occasional "family-friendly" miniseries or show, but it seems to me that a majority of HBO programming suffers from gratuitous "edginess.")
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I think if done right, the harshness of what's being done to children by coolly calculating adults in EG, the intensity with which they fight, would be pretty damn edgy. I'm also far from sure HBO wouldn't sex/profanity it up in some way, but I'm *also* sure that even with that risk it'd be worth it to get a well handled, even if slightly changed, series of 9+ hrs rather than a 2hr film.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
HBO added an entire new character to Game of Thrones who's sole job is to be naked in every single scene she's in. Because, you know, the books as they are don't have enough sex or nudity.
It's their current obsession with getting as much nudity as possible into their shows that's holding them back from making truly great shows, IMO. Imagine what Band of Brothers would've been like if they cut away from the main story every 5 minutes to show another awkwardly inserted sex scene.
I can't imagine what they'd do to Ender's Game to make it as titillating and edgy as possible, but I know it'd end up turning a potentially great show into a mediocre one.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:HBO added an entire new character to Game of Thrones who's sole job is to be naked in every single scene she's in.
She was sort of the Exposition Fairy. A permanently naked one, but still she had a second job. She was there to have the other characters tell their inner monologue's to.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: HBO added an entire new character to Game of Thrones who's sole job is to be naked in every single scene she's in. Because, you know, the books as they are don't have enough sex or nudity.
It's their current obsession with getting as much nudity as possible into their shows that's holding them back from making truly great shows, IMO. Imagine what Band of Brothers would've been like if they cut away from the main story every 5 minutes to show another awkwardly inserted sex scene.
I can't imagine what they'd do to Ender's Game to make it as titillating and edgy as possible, but I know it'd end up turning a potentially great show into a mediocre one.
They still managed to fit one into the series.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: She was sort of the Exposition Fairy. A permanently naked one, but still she had a second job. She was there to have the other characters tell their inner monologue's to.
The only time she was ever necessary - or useful - was in the first episode, which actually did a fantastic job of introducing Tyrion, his status in his family and society, his intellect, his perversions, his personality, and his relationship with his brother, all in about a minute and a half. After that, every time she appears on screen, it's to look pretty while some character rambles on to her. I suppose you could say she helps turn Theon into a more 3 dimensional character - I'm not sure why they spent so much time on him. He's more or less a background character until book 2 anyway.
My complaint isn't about the use of sex or nudity. For example, I thought the final shot of Dany standing naked, completely unabashed and regal with her dragons surrounding her and her pitiful followers bowing to her, was both powerful and surreal. It's also something rare in modern times: a depiction of a naked women where her nakedness emphasizes her strength and power and authority instead of her beauty and sensuality.
It's when they take a absolutely beautiful, perfect show like a Game of Thrones, where I'll find myself deeply immersed in the story, then cut right from a dramatic scene to an awkward 5 minute long sex scene. And that ruins it for me. The disbelief comes back and I realize - oh, HBO must be behind on their boob quota for the hour.
A Game of Thrones is actually a lot more tastefully done and restrained than most of their shows in this regard.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I'd like to see Ender's Game as a series on HBO. Rather than squeeze it into a 2 hour splodaganza, you can stretch it out and cover all the tidbits that make the book beloved.
Of course, but no one ever listens to that suggestion...
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:The only time she was ever necessary...
Yeah I don't disagree with you, I just wanted to point out that she seemed to be injected into episodes for two reasons, not just the one you mentioned .
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Two unrelated observations:
1. The probability that I will like the movie adaptation of a book is roughly inversely proportional to how much I liked the book. A really good novel, like Ender's Game, works on many different levels. The aspects of it that are likely to work well as a movie, are probably not the aspects of the book you love. A movie is long enough to tell a short story, not two novels. That means stuff's got to be cut and changed and chances are very high that they are going to cut and or change some of the things you love about the book. There are about a hundred reasons why this is more likely to be true for Ender's Game than for the average book.
2. No one ever listens to the suggestion to make Ender's Game into a mini-series because, although it might be great artistically, it would be a looser financially. Card has said that Ender's Game is his most valuable intellectual property. An Ender's Game movie has the chance of being a blockbuster that makes millions. A mini-series could never do that.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
One could finance the other.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: One could finance the other.
The second reason that no one ever seriously listens to the mini-series option is that the single biggest problem with making the movie, capable child actors, would be an even bigger for a series.
Maybe in a few years, when CGI is better accepted as a dramatic medium, a CGI mini-series could work.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I'm not sure that it's a given that a mini-series will make no money; if we expand it from Ender's Game to the Shadow books and the recent Ender novels, then there's a good potential for a SEASON or two, rather than a series of episodes.
But I don't know much about how money is made in TV. How's Game of Thrones doing, financially?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I'm not sure that it's a given that a mini-series will make no money; if we expand it from Ender's Game to the Shadow books and the recent Ender novels, then there's a good potential for a SEASON or two, rather than a series of episodes.
But I don't know much about how money is made in TV. How's Game of Thrones doing, financially?
I didn't mean to imply that and Ender's series would make no money, just that a successful series would be a looser in comparison to a successful movie.
I couldn't find any information about profits and costs for Game of Thrones. But the highest grossing TV shows are making 5 - 6 million in advertising per episode. The average budget for the Harry Potter Movies was 144 million dollars. The Chronicles of Narnia had a budget of 225 million. The budget for Avatar 237 million. Pirates of the Caribbean: at the World's End had budget of $300 million. So a little math tells us that per episode budget for any TV series would have to be around 1% of what it costs to make a movie. The initial episodes of Heroes had a budget of $4 million.
Let's say you could make a decent TV episode of Ender's Game for half that and it was wildly successful and brought in $5 million per episode for 20 episodes. That's a net profit of $60 million dollars if the series were massively popular. (Note this would not be the profit to OSC. It would be split between the network, the local stations and everyone involved in the production.)
A blockbuster movie would net 5 to 10 times as much and be much higher quality (presuming any relationship at all between what you pay and what you get).
[ November 22, 2011, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:A blockbuster movie would net 5 to 10 times as much and be much higher quality (presuming any relationship at all between what you pay and what you get).
It depends on what you mean by "quality." Quality of technology (ie, cgi, 3d etc) perhaps.
Quality of story? Execution? Scope? I think that's debatable.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
That is, I want OSC to make lots of money, but I also want the story to be done right (and I'm sure OSC does, too).
I have more faith in the series format to accomplish a quality story than I do in the movie format.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
For quality of store, stick with the book. Neither movies nor a series is going to come close.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
For Ender's Game, I can believe that.
But the LOTR movies improved on the book (for the most part); so such a thing is possible.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Fellowship was better than the book. Neither of the other two films were, however.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I tried to wade into the LotRs awhile back, and couldn't get off the ground. The books are laborious. The movies have their flaws, but at least are accessible.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: I tried to wade into the LotRs awhile back, and couldn't get off the ground. The books are laborious. The movies have their flaws, but at least are accessible.
As I said before the probability that you will like a movie adaptation is inversely related to how well you liked the book. If you thought the book had a lot of weaknesses, then there is a lot of room for the movie to improve on the book. If you think the book is perfect, there is nowhere to go but down.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Am I the only one that thinks Stephen Lang would be an amazing Mazer?
I also vote Chloe Moretz as Petra. Well, either her or Elle Fanning, though I think Elle might be too tall.
As long as they don't cast Jayden Smith in the movie I'm fine with their choices.
Other kids to consider: Kodi Smit-McPhee and Dylan Minette. Dylan Minette played the bully REALLY well in Let Me In, I think he could play a decent Bonzo.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Some of us also feel that the Game of Thrones show is superior to the book(s). . . .
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: Some of us also feel that the Game of Thrones show is superior to the book(s). . . .
Some of are wrong...
Posted by dansigal (Member # 12661) on :
Well I think the better way to say it is that Game of Thrones is as good a tv show as Song of Ice and Fire is a book series. There are just some things done in the books that can't be done on tv (level of detail, various first person perspectives, etc...) and no one expected them to be accomplished in the tv show for logistical and budget purposes.
So...Ender has been cast, that's super exciting! I frankly can't wrap my head around people who say they are unhappy about the movie because they are worried it will ruin the book? Really? I don't get how that's possible. Will a bad movie result in a mass book burning? Of course not. The book exists and always will exist in the form it is in now and if the movie is a horrible failure, that will have zero effect on it. Frankly I'm excited for the chance to see the story told in a new medium. But the bottom line is the movie will be its own entity. If it's awesome we all win. If it's horrible the only thing any of us lose is the $10-$12 bucks we spend to go see it.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Fellowship was better than the book. Neither of the other two films were, however.
Fellowship was the worst book I've ever attempted to read... so.
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
Stephen Lang is a great actor. Unfortunately, I really don't want him to either do it as a white guy, or in makeup to make him look Maori. Couldn't he, you know, eat lots of doughnuts and play Graff?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by dansigal: Well I think the better way to say it is that Game of Thrones is as good a tv show as Song of Ice and Fire is a book series. There are just some things done in the books that can't be done on tv (level of detail, various first person perspectives, etc...) and no one expected them to be accomplished in the tv show for logistical and budget purposes.
Well, they also massively change things that have nothing to do with budget or logistics, so, there's that...
I like the show, but it's got some deep flaws, and not just because it's so divergent from the book. It's good, but nowhere near as good as I hoped it would be.
quote:Originally posted by dansigal: So...Ender has been cast, that's super exciting! I frankly can't wrap my head around people who say they are unhappy about the movie because they are worried it will ruin the book? Really? I don't get how that's possible. Will a bad movie result in a mass book burning? Of course not. The book exists and always will exist in the form it is in now and if the movie is a horrible failure, that will have zero effect on it. Frankly I'm excited for the chance to see the story told in a new medium. But the bottom line is the movie will be its own entity. If it's awesome we all win. If it's horrible the only thing any of us lose is the $10-$12 bucks we spend to go see it.
I agree with this, though.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by millernumber1: Stephen Lang is a great actor. Unfortunately, I really don't want him to either do it as a white guy, or in makeup to make him look Maori. Couldn't he, you know, eat lots of doughnuts and play Graff?
Ah, I totally COMPLETELY Mazer was half Maori! Ok then, I have to go with Nathaniel Lees. Perfect Maori Mazer.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Oh, and I meant to say wade into LotR again as I read them when I was 15 or so.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine:
quote:Originally posted by millernumber1: Stephen Lang is a great actor. Unfortunately, I really don't want him to either do it as a white guy, or in makeup to make him look Maori. Couldn't he, you know, eat lots of doughnuts and play Graff?
Ah, I totally COMPLETELY Mazer was half Maori! Ok then, I have to go with Nathaniel Lees. Perfect Maori Mazer.
He's actually Samoan- born in New Zealand. I agree though. If he has the acting chops, he'd make a pretty good Mazer- certainly fits the description.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine:
I also vote Chloe Moretz as Petra. Well, either her or Elle Fanning, though I think Elle might be too tall.
You do remember that Petra is Armenian right?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
You do all realize that the likelihood of the casting people actually sticking to the ethic backgrounds of the characters when finding actors is practically 0%, right?
They'll all be young Americans (and British, judging by the Ender casting) maybe the odd Australian.
But they're not really going to bother searching the world for the perfect mixed-race Greek/Belgian kid, or the authentic Armenian girl. They're not going to care. They'll just pick some random kids from California. It's the idea of said kids doing accents that really makes me shudder.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Chloe Moretz is an amazing young actress with a wealth of potential but if they can't even respect the character designations in casting then I don't have much hope for this film. The IF and Battle School are a fascinating setting that would be sorely dis-serviced if filled with white people from southern California.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Children typically don't have strong accents in any language, if they are conversant in that language. It's only the movies that pretend this actually happens.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Off Topic! They do if they learn said language from a non-native speaker. Some kids here in Spain who speak English, do so with an accent you could cut up and spread on toast because they learnt it from their Spanish English teachers (eg. counting 'wun, tu, tree...').
It's rather adorable - but it'll be difficult for them to lose it later, should they want to, and it's something that needs to be fixed before they hit 10, or so.
Also, (I remember getting a lot of attention as a kid in the US because of my South-Eastern English accent) - within a language there is of course, the same amount of variation in the accents of children and adults.
On Topic - I fully expect to have blood dripping from my ears as some broadly American kid pretends to be Belgian (and how is the kid playing Ender's US accent? Anyone know?)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Granted, a child will pick up a foreign accent if the language is taught to them with an accent- but my point was that children who speak English as a second language do not maintain the language patterns that would cause them to have a strong accent in English. So for instance, children in "battle school," where English is the primary language would pick up the variety of English spoken by the majority of speakers and speak it without a strong indication of any particular accent.
The "mini-adults" take on kids presented by OSC in EG, especially in terms of language, doesn't make much sense from my experience. Children don't *shed* accents quickly, their first words in English are in the accent of the teacher. To them, there is no distinction between a word and its pronunciation, as long as the LAD process is still going on.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote:children in "battle school," where English is the primary language would pick up the variety of English spoken by the majority of speakers and speak it without a strong indication of any particular accent.
Excellent point. Although since the 'children' in this movie will be twelve-plus rather than six, that would make a difference.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
They would have been there since about 6. You can fairly easily justify a pan-American or Trans-atlantic mix of accents by that logic.
In an emersive environment, a child will learn to communicate in English in as little as a few weeks, and be at par with native speaking peers in a few months. OSC just didn't really know enough about language learning to have gotten that aspect of it right in the novel: references to "language patterns," being set at the age of 4 are simply wrong.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Also, (I remember getting a lot of attention as a kid in the US because of my South-Eastern English accent) - within a language there is of course, the same amount of variation in the accents of children and adults.
I was 6 years old when we moved, I remember my sisters (4, 7, and 12 at the time) all lost their accents within a few months. I'm 22 and still retain mine. I think my sisters made a deliberate attempt to change theirs (so their new friends would stop giggling every time they spoke), whereas at that age I was already a rugged nonconformist and was quite bitter about being mocked. I also thought the other kids sounded stupid. (I did not have an easy childhood)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
They didn't make an effort, it sounds like you did. To maintain your accent.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
My younger sisters did it more or less subconsciously. I remember my older sister (12 a the time) walking around, practicing saying certain words over and over again, so she wouldn't slip up. My brother and 2 oldest sisters were adults, and generally speaking didn't have to worry about fitting in as much.
I definitely made a very deliberate attempt to maintain my accent. Or rather, I realized it was what made me different from the other kids, and I enjoyed not being like them. (I was a pretty hateful little bastard) Then again, from my memory of Ender's Game, the one kid who's mentioned having an accent (Bernard) sounds like he's exaggerating it to sound cool and pompous. Card's comment about "language patterns being set at 4" is of course ridiculous - one of my best friends growing up didn't speak English until he was 5. He learned it mostly at school (as opposed to from his parents), and speaks with a perfectly normal American accent. I can't imagine why most of the kids at Battle School - completely deprived of their parents and cultures - wouldn't just convert to a common accent.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Just a couple of thoughts:
1. In Ender's Game, OSC refers to the fact that all kids were taught a common, accent-free language with the exception of the "insular" French who waited until after the French language patterns were established in their children before teaching the common language. So, it probably doesn't matter in the least about who has what accent in the movie.
2. J.R.R. Tolkien was an author who was highly educated, and probably expected his readers to be similarly well-educated. The fact is, we do not teach children or young adults to read works that are both challenging and entertaining, let alone challenging and instructive -- we seem teach them to read works that merely entertain. And this appalling lack in our educational system shows . . . *sad sigh* . . .
That is all. Carry on. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well, to be fair, OSC basically downgraded everything about Earth that he had painted in broad strokes to essentially 20 Minutes in The Future technology and politics for the shadow books. So, conveniently, the "One World Language" aspect of Common mostly disappeared, and suddenly only educated people spoke it.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:It's their current obsession with getting as much nudity as possible into their shows that's holding them back from making truly great shows, IMO.
Eh? I would have a hard time coming up with an all-time top ten list that was not dominated by HBO. If The Sopranos, The Wire and Deadwood are not "truly great," I do not know what you are looking for.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
I'm not denying that anything made by HBO is generally 10 times better than anything else. I'm just picky. Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:I'm not denying that anything made by HBO is generally 10 times better than anything else. I'm just picky.
So you are just disappointed with TV in general? If so, why ascribe your disappointment to HBO's adult content?
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: So you are just disappointed with TV in general? If so, why ascribe your disappointment to HBO's adult content?
Because HBO was specifically being talked about in this thread?
In two HBO shows I've recently watched, the single thing I felt that was holding them back from being completely immersive and captivating was their need to pull away from the story periodically to show long, boring sex scenes that generally had no place in the story.
If you want to talk about all TV (which has far, far lower standards of production than HBO), then there are a *lot* of problems I could bring up. But the comments I was responding to were specifically about HBO, not TV in general. If we were talking about doing Ender's Game as a Sci-Fi (SyFy? I haven't actually watched a TV is some years) channel miniseries, my comments would obviously be different.
To be honest, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
quote:In two HBO shows I've recently watched, the single thing I felt that was holding them back from being completely immersive and captivating was their need to pull away from the story periodically to show long, boring sex scenes that generally had no place in the story.
This is a discussion Hatrack has had before. It is funny: only people who have moral issues with sex ever call sex scenes "boring."
If a scene in an otherwise excellent show is actually boring, then it would be a blip in your enjoyment. HBO shows have boring scenes all the time. Every single story ever has had boring bits. Nothing is always interesting. So why single out the sex scenes? See the first paragraph in this post.
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: It is funny: only people who have moral issues with sex ever call sex scenes "boring."
What do you think my moral issues with sex are, exactly?
And have you seen A Game of Thrones or Spartacus? Though Spartacus actually has one fantastic sex scene. (the one where they dress up as the gods, if you've seen it) The nudity in Spartacus (especially among the men) seemed pretty natural in most places, the random gratuitous sex scenes not so much. In GoT, the random nude characters seem far more out of place.
I single out the sex scenes because they tend to be the one boring part that usually adds *nothing* to the story. Game of Thrones at least let the characters ramble on while they procreated so it added some tangential information.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
I apologize, Dogbreath, I think I misjudged you. I was going to ask you if you had seen GoT or Spartacus and say that maybe, just maybe they were examples of genuinely gratuitous nudity.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
But wait, now I'm really curious. If you're cool with that Littlefinger prostitute scene, what "boring" sex scenes are you thinking of? Or at least, which show?
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
I already covered a lot of this on the thread dedicated to the A Game of Thrones show. I actually didn't mention the Littlefinger scene - the one sex scene in the show I actually thought did a lot in the way of storytelling was Tyrion's very first scene. I thought the Littlefinger scene was more or less porn with Littlefinger's little monologue spliced over it.
Most of the sex in both GoT and Spartacus is just naked people going at it doggy style, with very little sensuality or imagination. Even the actors look bored. I suppose if you (the director, not you personally) want to deconstruct how sex in movies is usually shown as being wonderful and sensual and perfect by showing long clips of sweaty people grunting, then do it in one episode and be done with it.
If you read A Game of Thrones, sex and nudity is definitely present, but typically only in places where it shows character development or reveals something about the nature of a certain character. However, the show cuts out a lot of important parts from the book due to time constraints, yet has no problem adding lots of extra sex scenes that weren't present in the book. The only justification I can see for doing that is they feel they had to make the series more titillating to attract viewers.
The scenes I'm thinking of is just about any scene with Theon and his prostitute, the scene with Maester Pycelle and the prostitute, the scene with Cersei and her cousin Lancel (who looked hideously underweight and actually managed to gross me out), the scene with Renly and Loras (which was a decent scene until the slurping sounds... *shudder*), the second scene with Drogo and Dany (which was actually really well done in the book), though at least in GoT they're pretty brief. Spartacus is the boring one. My objection with GoT isn't so much boredom as distraction - I feel like they're a little kinky and don't mesh with the otherwise very serious and lofty tone of the rest of the series.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
And Butterfield confirms role. On the plus side, it seems that the actor is familiar with the original text.
quote: Butterfield first quoted Ender on Twitter — “In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him” — and then after repeating the word “happy” nine times, announced that “now that I’ve real eased all my pent up emotion, I’m going to talk a wee bit more civilised. I have just booked Enders Game.”
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: On the plus side, it seems that the actor is familiar with the original text.
That's very good.
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
Well, I for one think that quoting a book that you were just hired in the eponymous role is an extremely good sign. And not just once, but several times.
Ford would be interesting, though he's too old for the role as written. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be great, though.
I was just talking with a friend, and we thought that Elle Fanning would be great for Valentine - though with Butterfield cast, it might be hard to cast a Valenting younger than Ender :-)
Posted by PhoelixSpaceCat (Member # 12680) on :
The Brit is confirmed. Sigh. As long as they are going that old why didn't they just use the Dolphin Tale kid, that OSC liked so much and wanted for Ender?
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
Speaking of which, I haven't seen/heard OSC himself saying *anything* about this recently. I don't recall even hearing from him that casting had begun. Does this worry anyone else?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I would not be at all surprised if OSCs contract requests (or requires) that he not make any public comments on the movie until it is released.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by PhoelixSpaceCat: The Brit is confirmed. Sigh. As long as they are going that old why didn't they just use the Dolphin Tale kid, that OSC liked so much and wanted for Ender?
Authors have varying degrees of control over movie adaptations of their movies. More often than not they have virtually no control over casting choices. Anne Rice absolutely hated that Tom Cruise was cast as Lestat in Interview With The Vampire, but he did such a great job she came around.
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
I was hoping that OSC had held on to enough control over the film to not be involved with NDAs.
I don't want to be overly pessimistic, especially given that Summit has usually been fairly author-friendly (well, basing that solely on the Twilight films, which have a much more widespread and public fandom).
I just hope that the filmmakers are aware that people actually still like the book, and it doesn't go the way of other film adaptations of books from the 80s or earlier (which turn out to be "in name only" adaptations).
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sean Monahan: Speaking of which, I haven't seen/heard OSC himself saying *anything* about this recently. I don't recall even hearing from him that casting had begun. Does this worry anyone else?
If the production company is smart, they will downplay his involvement to the point of total obscurity because he's a major liability, both for his past, and for his public relations "abilities."
Still, his involvement poses an enormous public relations challenge, and a big risk for the company that releases this film. It is not inconceivable that the negative pub this film generates, based on OSC's name alone, will overshadow the PR machine, and shroud the whole thing in an icky political stew. So the last thing they want is OSC talking about this film, *at all*.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Outside of the speculative fiction community-- beyond authors, editors, and involved fans-- most people aren't aware. They are aware he's written a book they like and that's about it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Not what I meant. A vocal minority will make a stink about it, and the release will be marred with controversy. That's what I'm saying could happen.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:or in conversations about his books (with real, living people)
I literally lol'd — this is the most you caveat in history. Real, living people, as opposed to what, exactly?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Online AIs like you (and me), of course.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
Right. Because you've met him. And you're so special, that you know how this will play out. I forgot, sorry.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.
Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
Right. Because you've met him. And you're so special, that you know how this will play out. I forgot, sorry.
I am pretty special, and I have met OSC.
I'm not sure what either of those have to do with prognosticating what will happen at the movie release, if OSC is involved in it. I'm not making the claim to have some special knowledge; I note that you made a forecast, too.
Is there a point buried in your sarcasm?
Samp:
It was to distinguish "real" people from the people who are authors, editors, and involved fans of science fiction. "Real, living" was probably not the best choice, given my history.
I don't think most folks who would go see Ender's Game would necessarily concern themselves with Card's political history. Can you show examples where something similar has occurred? If I recall correctly, his Ender series still makes the NY Times Best seller list whenever they're released, despite his opinions. Why would a movie elicit a stronger reaction?
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
Apparently, OSC is neither under NDA or unhappy about these directions.
"I'm delighted that Asa Butterfield is so happy to be playing Ender Wiggin! I just saw his fine performance in Hugo - best thing in the movie! - and I look forward to seeing him bring Ender Wiggin to life on the screen."
That doesn't sound like "Oh, man, they are adding a romance" to me.
I am heartened.
Just as I am disheartened by the thread direction.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote: Is there a point buried in your sarcasm?
My original point still stands. The current public reputation of OSC does not resemble what his public reputation *will* be when and if the media picks up on his rather vast library of damningly awful political writing- among it rather a few worrying statements, and reflections on rather a few more views that the media might be interested in talking about.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release? Whether or not talk of Card's politics and anti-gay activism will be a prominent undercurrent and even headliner subject during the stretch of time to the movie's cinematic release? How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?
Because I already know the answers to all of these questions, and I like easy money.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Wasn't there already a minor hullabaloo over the game that was inspired by Empire?
A major motion picture would be a lot bigger version of the exact same controversy, I'd imagine.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Hah, yeah. God, that was annoying. Controversy over an XBLA game ffs
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Why would a movie elicit a stronger reaction?
Seriously? Because it's a movie. Books slide across the shelves, and nobody takes notice, one way or the other- books are always going to be there. But films are released, and the theaters want asses in seats. The pressure for performance is much higher. The profile of a film release is a world apart, both in scale and in dollar amounts involved, than even the most anticipated book releases.
What's an ad campaign for a book? What does that cost? A few tens of thousands of dollars, or less? This film will have an ad budget in the tens of millions of dollars, probably. It's going to be plied up and down the coasts and across the world in an effort to win back its budget in ticket sales. And all that profile means there's a story involved, if there's something about the author that is in any way controversial.
Honestly, this is really striking me as naive. His book releases are one thing, and they are worlds apart from a film release.
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
I wonder if there's going to be any kind of book release (or releases) around the projected film release date for cross-promotion. I see possibly trying to tie in the second Formic Wars book (since the first book comes out July 2012, it might be possible to have the second out around March 2013...though perhaps a bit tight). Another option I could maybe see happening would be OSC finally writing and releasing that final chapter of Ender's Game (and maybe rewriting the end of Shadow of the Giant...hey, a continuity nerd can dream) in another edition. Maybe with the cool ebook cover? Or just a film still cover.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:What's an ad campaign for a book? What does that cost? A few tens of thousands of dollars, or less?
Depends on the book. For Ender's series? I imagine quite a bit more than that.
quote: And all that profile means there's a story involved, if there's something about the author that is in any way controversial.
Possibly. Roman Polanski's movies don't seem to get much guff, and he raped a child.
quote:Wasn't there already a minor hullabaloo over the game that was inspired by Empire?
Was the kerfuffle about the plot of Empire, or about OSC's politics?
quote:Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release?
How are you quantifying "factor?" I mean are you going to be judging from frequency of times that OSC's name is mentioned, in conjunction with the movie, in conjunction with his politics?
Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
I was actually thinking about Polanski - but in general, his films aren't large budget, doorbusting events, as I assume Ender's Game will be. Or it better be - I'm hoping for at least 100 million for the budget.
Not that I think his continued career without any sort of apology is a good thing.
But I am curious about the book release idea.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'll see it, and get as many people as I can to see it. Because its American politics he writes about and to an American audience it won't be an issue up here.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?
It depends on who you mean by top critics. Few are going to have space to quote anything by the author of the work a movie is based on, especially where it is not relevant to the subject matter. It depends a lot on the quality of the movie as well. I expect there to be many calls for a boycott, but it's not something I'm dreading. It may turn out like "The Golden Compass" or it may turn out like "Twilight." I have no idea. But I'd imagine the average reviewer will simply mention the film is adapted from the novel by controversial author Orson Scott Card. They will put "controversial" in there to show they are aware, but I don't see it's the role of movie critics to comment on what the feel is lack of moral standing in the author of a work a film is based in. I do think Card is unlikely to get screenwriting credit as a result of the need to distance his reputation from the work. I hope that won't go to the extent of losing the story, though I would prefer the movie or at least the conclusion be solidly based in Ender's Game and not Ender's Shadow.
The conclusion of Ender's Shadow could, if Ender's game is successful, be a prolog to an Shadow of the Hegemon movie.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Edit: Here's an interview for those who haven't seen True Grit. I'm only a few minutes in, but I already think she'd make a great Valentine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdHZjy3lqqs
[ December 01, 2011, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Zotto! ]
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:Originally posted by Zotto!: Cool - Hailee Steinfeld is in negotiations. Wonder if it's for Petra or Valentine. Whichever, I am becoming cautiously optimistic about this movie.
Edit: Here's an interview for those who haven't seen True Grit. I'm only a few minutes in, but I already think she'd make a great Valentine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdHZjy3lqqs
This article reports she's in talks for the role of Petra.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ohhh, I'd love that casting choice.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Nice. Having [now] watched a few clips of True Grit, I can definitely see that character as well.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The first article did say Petra as well, just not by name. The actress is 16 (well, she will be in 10 days), but she looks pretty young and she's small, so it could work.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Heh, don't know how I missed that paragraph in the article I linked. At any rate, this is all sounding good! Posted by millernumber1 (Member # 9894) on :
That would be pretty cool! Definitely one of the best parts of True Grit (as OSC thought as well) :-)
Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
This movie would be infinitely cooler if they manage to give Jake Lloyd and Haley Joel Osment cameos.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release? Whether or not talk of Card's politics and anti-gay activism will be a prominent undercurrent and even headliner subject during the stretch of time to the movie's cinematic release? How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?
Because I already know the answers to all of these questions, and I like easy money.
As long as we are forecasting, here's mine. Gay activists will call for people to boycott the movie. If the movie is mediocre or a flop, no one but gay activists will notice. If the movie becomes a blockbuster, the boycott will draw more attention but that attention will more than likely backfire causing more people to see the movie. Card's politics won't become a big issue unless the movie actually gets nominated for an academy award. If it gets to that point, Card's politics will be a real liability and will give him and other conservatives energy to grind their axe against the Hollywood elite for years to come.
[ December 02, 2011, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Yeah I think Rabbit's forecast is pretty accurate.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
It's an interesting point. It's a little sad that the realistic outcome of OSC's years of churning out agitprop will be simply enough static for him to justify spending more years churning out agitprop. There's something pathetic about that.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Clearly he "churned out" more then agitation propaganda or else you wouldn't be here, on his website, talking about the movie that is going to made from his book. Show some respect.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Sure, he spent years before that writing beautiful fiction. It's a shame.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
We are all in the process of becoming caricatures of ourselves, but he is -still- writing beautiful fiction, and no matter how much it has hurt me to downgrade him from the status of "personal hero" to "one of many favorite writers" because of his intolerant views, I still think it is rude to say his assumed motivations are pathetic. No matter what else he has done, he has provided us a place to have this community of words we share, and I rankle at such blatant disrespect toward the man.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well, I was talking about the process of the negative feedback cycle that builds up over partisanship, and its effect on OSC and his agitprop stylings. Not his personal motivations. His personal motivations are a bit enigmatic. The process though, is pathetic. But then, it's a process that exists outside of this particular case.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
What do you think my moral issues with sex are, exactly?![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)