I'm pretty excited about both of them (Rise has gotten pretty good reviews. Franco is reportedly a little bored looking throughout the movie, but Andy Serkis makes up for it). I'm making sure to watch Project Nim *afterwards* so that I don't have science ruining my science fiction with silly facts, at least not until I've gotten to enjoy the science fiction.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:But Terrace says that "given that people eat meat, have pets and raise horses for races," what was done to Nim was not unethical.
I think that what happened to Nim is probably MORE ethical than how we typically treat animals, but I think the way we treat animals in general is pretty horrifying. Not having seen the movie or read the book yet, I can't comment more.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
This is only my unprofessional opinion, but I thought 'Rise' was excellent. Fun, better than average visual effects, and a certain point in the film actually surprised me.
And the script actually explained what was going on so that the audience could understand it. Which is a rare thing, these days.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I enjoyed it, the graphics were exemplary and the story was well designed.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: I enjoyed it, the graphics were exemplary and the story was well designed.
Exactly my feelings. Just like Golem in LOTR I was able to completely suspend my disbelief watching Ceasar in Rise, WETA Visual deserves another Oscar for their work. And I absolutely agree that Serkis should be considered just like any other actor by the Academy. He did brilliant work, and he did everything an actor does to qualify for the award, save his costume was added after his footage was shot.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Is it just me or was James Franco's performance spot on as the character but not so much as the doctor and scientist? He just looked like a college student at a costume party every time he was at the lab wearing his scientist clothes.
His car also annoyed me, I don't care how sensitive you are no one who makes more than one hundred thousand dollars a year drives an old wood paneled station wagon.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
It might be smarter than a nice car/SUV if you plan on driving with an animal everywhere you go.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Caesar is not an animal, especially not to... wow I just watched the film and I have no clue what his characters name was. I guess it wasn't very important. Franco did not consider him to be an animal, and a good SUV would have dark windows allowing him to transport Caesar much more safely, imagine getting pulled over for and having to explain why there is a sweater clad chimp in your car.
And just because I have too few holes to poke in this movies boat, the time progression was non-existent.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I saw the previews. They made me laugh. It implied that the apes could somehow defeat the humans.
It was hilarious. Humans have guns, bombs, and even nukes. If apes were really winning, we'd win. There are way too many of us, and way too few of them. The preview suggested they were winning, which is stupid. It looked ridiculous, and I laughed every time the previews appeared.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
AchillesHeel: Caesar *is* an animal, heck so are we. I did forget though that they most likely left Caesar at home while Franco was working. I suppose it doesn't make sense, but it's still possible the character does not spend money he does not have to spend, and perhaps the car with wood siding was his father's when he could drive?
0Megabyte: They hint at some of the factors that make our defeat quite possible, it's not horribly implausible, at least if you buy into movie logic.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
they don't even really hint at it. All the apes really have to do is conquer Madagascar.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Who would you want to win after watching the movie?
I don't really think any reasonable person would side with the apes in reality. I mean, you are essentially betraying your entire species if you did.
And I hear there's a scene after the credits that basically says how humanity is going to fall.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: Who would you want to win after watching the movie?
I don't really think any reasonable person would side with the apes in reality. I mean, you are essentially betraying your entire species if you did.
And I hear there's a scene after the credits that basically says how humanity is going to fall.
I side with the humans out of self-interest.
That being said,
((POTENTIAL MINOR SPOILERS))
the movie doesn't play it like a war. I think 'rise' is the perfect word for it. They are trying to gain freedom (or at least that's Caesar's goal) apart from humans. There's no indication that they want to wipe us out, regardless of how things may turn out.
And actually, there's a scene mid-credits.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: they don't even really hint at it. All the apes really have to do is conquer Madagascar.
Win.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'm declaring this official spoiler territory now, and I will be avoiding the thread until after I see the movie.
Carry on.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Isnt there a viral pandemic now thats killing humans off in the film? Isn't that how they manage to do it in the end?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Yup, the chubby guy from Reaper had it, and he sneezed blood on Dr. McKay. They don't allude to if the virus can be transmitted without direct blood contact, so if they want to ignore it in future films they can.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Spoilers*
AchillesHeel: Well seeing as how the first human contracted it through the air, I don't see why not.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Great review of the movie (chock-full of spoilers): Hairpin Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
He inhaled an artificial gas form of the virus, this does not make the virus airborne. They can go either way with it, even just going in between and saying that the blood transmitted disease weakened humanity in the fight against the evolved apes would work.
[ August 09, 2011, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: AchillesHeel ]
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Now I have to get personal: Rise of the Planet of the Apes is the first truly successful adaptation of my novel Ender's Game to appear on the screen.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I have to disagree, OSC does not have a trademark on a single loner that is smarter than the others around him. And reminding us of the similarities between Ender's Game and Harry Potter is just repetitive, you don't hear Niel Gaiman crying out at every turn with a first issue Book's of Magic pointing out how Harry Potter is just Timothy Hunter goes to school.
Edit to add. If the story is a rip of anything it is the story of Moses, right down to freeing the slaves only to cross a narrow path through/over the water and they could just as well wander through the forests and bolster their ranks through breeding before finding the humans dead and the promised land waiting to be prospered.
[ August 18, 2011, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: AchillesHeel ]
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Wow, that'll teach me to quote things out of context. The point was not that he was complaining about stolen ideas. The point was that RotPotA is the first movie he's seen where Hollywood successfully executed the "child leader" storyline in a way that was emotionally compelling. He is glad to see it done right.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Ceasar may have only been about eight years old, but chimps mature earlier and he was forcibly evolved. In short Ceasar was not a child.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Have you actually read the article yet or are you still making assumptions off a brief summary of a particular point?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Relevant quotes from those too lazy to read:
quote:Now I have to get personal: Rise of the Planet of the Apes is the first truly successful adaptation of my novel Ender's Game to appear on the screen.
Oh, I have no idea if the writers ever read or even heard of my novel. But they faced very nearly the same set of challenges, and they made most of the same choices I made in creating my most popular character. That they were working with a chimp and I was working with a human child made scant difference.
If you've read Ender's Game and seen Rise of the Planet of the Apes, you are already nodding your head and saying, Wow, RotPotA is even more like Ender's Game than Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.
If you haven't read my book, well, you're part of the majority of the human race, and you'll just have to take my word for it: This is a hard thing to bring off, and these writers did it well. If they learned some of it from me, that's cool and I'm glad. If they did it all on their own, then I salute them all the same.
But it makes me happy that I've seen it done right. It really does work on screen to create a real hero, a real leader, in a realistic and powerful way -- when the writers care enough to attempt it.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I read it, I just disagree entirely. Ender lead no revolution, he did not suffer losses and watch his fellow students fall as teachers killed them, in the end Ender ran away from everything he did while Ceasar took responsibility for the changes he made. Ender was constantly manipulated and set-up for failure while Ceaser was caged and violently tortured. Ender had a childhood full of bullies, Ceasar had a family who loved him and changed everything about their own lives to comfort him.
The similarities are tenuous.
Ray, if you are going to argue with me then argue presented and valid points instead of making unfounded decisions about anything I may or may not have done.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The similarities he's talking about are not the entire plot, but the means by which he demonstrates his ability to command, both to the audience and to the people who trust him with their lives.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Ender lead by example, being cold and just plain better than everyone else he did not want his soldiers to like him or even be loyal. All he wanted was for them to follow orders and learn from their mistakes. Ceasar was quick to offer compassion and align himself with more powerful entities while Ender worked best with the apparent worst.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Ender lead by example, being cold and just plain better than everyone else he did not want his soldiers to like him or even be loyal
He didn't want to be his soldiers' *friends*, but that is completely different than not wanting them to be loyal. (Depending on what you mean by "like", you might be right about that.)
This is even more clear in Ender's Shadow, where Bean is a worse commander than Ender even though he's a better strategist, because it's not just enough to be good, you need to be good with people.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Ender was much more of a caricature of "exemplary soldier" to Dragon Army than he was an actual commander. He entered that first practice with little more than a handful of techniques and a willingness to let his subordinates think for themselves. He was already the golden boy of Battle School, if you go to train with the best there is and he does anything more capable than soil himself and fall down most would be prone to be impressed. Plus Bean had stacked the odds in his favor as far as winning battles goes, but everyone else just assumed that Mr. #1 in the standings was the only reason they won at all.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
I would compare it to when Wayne Gretzky was handling the Phoenix Coyotes, understand they did horribly but if they done well people would assume that The Great One Gretzky was the explanation but he obviously couldn't help them improve at all.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
(I recognize that this is among the sillier arguments I've gotten into on the internet)
I think the Ender/Caesar comparison is more relevant in the first third of the book, when Ender is doing things like befriending Alai (who was in Bernard's circle).