Don't know if anyone knew about this or not, but I thought it was pretty interesting.
To those that have played Diablo II or World of Warcraft, you know about the "Chinese Gold Farmers" that sell gold or items for real currency. This is a bannable offense in both games and has turned into a huge industry.
Well, Blizzard decided to do something different for Diablo III. Diablo III will utilize an Auction House like World of Warcraft, but the items will be bought and sold using... Real Currency!
It will cost you a small fee to post the auction as well as a small cut once it sells, bringing Blizzard some money. The money you make can be sent to your battle.net account as "store credit" to be used in the store to pay for goods, subscriptions, or in game items such as mounts and pets for World of Warcraft. It can also be sent to a paypal account so you can cash out.
I don't know how I feel about it. While it is nice to see Blizzard try to "legalize" this for their games, it also worries me. If someone's battle.net account gets hacked, what will happen if the hackers have access to those funds?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
This is not a good idea, games that I use to detach from reality for a little bit do not need a direct feed into my bank account. Besides, how many players are minors and how many of them might misappropriate their parents card information just to do something in game that should be just that, in game.
Bravo Blizzard for figuring out how to take over the gold farmers industry, but if I am playing a game that involves real money to do mundane things like post to the auction house I would stop playing that game. And speaking as a former WoW player any mount that was restricted to real currency transactions would out of favor for most players, anyone can get the expensive in game mount if they grind long enough but few players get the super rare drop mounts from heroic instances.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I am extremely intrigued by this idea, and wonder how the raw numbers will pan out.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Never sell power. Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Having played Everquest and EQ2 for years, I don't like this idea at all. Then again, this isn't really an MMO like WoW or EQ, so it might pan out differently.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I don't think I mentioned it.... In game gold auctions will also be available. So if you want to buy items but don't want to link your battle.net account to a paypal account, you don't have to. There will be completely different auction houses.
Does that change your mind at all AH?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
If I can play on MP servers that are guaranteed independent of participation in microtrans auction garbage, idc
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I don't inherently mind this - the black market would exist anyway. This keeps it more under blizzard's control, reduces spam and gives less incentive to hack accounts.
The one thing that I'm concerned about as that everyone will try to sell things for profit rather than gold, so the "regular" AH might have a worse selection.
I think Samp's solution would be best.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
If I can earn back my initial $50-$60 investment over the entire time I play the game, it will be a huge perk for me.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I see it the way Black Blade does. If I sell a few items for $5 each I could pay for my WoW subscription with it.
Samp, from what I understand there will be no difference in servers. There will only be a regional servers, and each will contain both types of auction houses.
Then again the Auction House is completely optional. You don't have to use it to have fun in the game.
I think it is a positive thing. If I can make a bit of money by playing a game, I'm all for it.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Then again the Auction House is completely optional. You don't have to use it to have fun in the game.
But you may need it to remain competitive. (Overall I'm not that worried about it, but I can see it being an issue for some people)
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Hardcore characters will not be able to use the real money auction house. Blizzard wants to "save people from themselves" as the worst thing would be to dump a lot of money into a character and then have the character die and lose everything.
Interesting.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:Hardcore characters will not be able to use the real money auction house. Blizzard wants to "save people from themselves" as the worst thing would be to dump a lot of money into a character and then have the character die and lose everything.
Interesting.
Blizzard cares about teen suicide rates. Lets see how Activision feels about it. Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
It will be super interesting from an economic/sociological perspective. Will prices be low because every farmer and teen will be selling wares or will prices be high because there will be such a big market of buyers?
I hope blizz's cut isn't crazy. 15% seems reasonable to take to cash. I bet it's higher though.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I bet this will enable people who sit in a room with bottle to pee in and never leave their house..."Look how much money I made today!"
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I don't think I mentioned it.... In game gold auctions will also be available. So if you want to buy items but don't want to link your battle.net account to a paypal account, you don't have to. There will be completely different auction houses.
Does that change your mind at all AH?
Not entirely, allowing some players to substitute in game currency with real currency is still unbalanced IMO.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:Hardcore characters will not be able to use the real money auction house. Blizzard wants to "save people from themselves" as the worst thing would be to dump a lot of money into a character and then have the character die and lose everything.
Interesting.
They also want to save themselves from people, kinda.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: I bet this will enable people who sit in a room with bottle to pee in and never leave their house..."Look how much money I made today!"
Hey, my lazy brother is already planning this. He hasn't worked in 3 years, and when I told him he decided that would be his full time job. That way he can still collect government assistance and make extra money on the side without the government ever knowing.
It's sad really.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Hey man, if you think you can hack a decent amount of cash from playing Diablo III's markets, that's not a bad bit of entrepreneurship.
The people who get any serious money from it won't be the item farmers, though. It'll be the EVE-style market manipulators, and nearly anyone who tells themselves that this is what they're going to be doing are not aware that they're not actually canny enough to pull it off.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Up until Wrath of the Lich King (maybe reaching level 70 in Burning Crusade) I made a lot more money buying and selling things from the AH than actually going out and farming. And I know perfectly well that I *wasn't* that good at it.
I know that EVE is orders of magnitude more complex than that. If I were going to do that, I'd honestly rather have an actual job.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I don't know about the eve markets, but blizzard is going to make it difficult to game the system as much as in wow auction houses by banning any auction mods.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by dabbler: I don't know about the eve markets, but blizzard is going to make it difficult to game the system as much as in wow auction houses by banning any auction mods.
While I hope Blizzard is successful in this, I don't know how they are going to be able to track it well. There are bot programs in World of Warcraft that have been used for 3+ years that Blizzard has not been able to stop.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Also, in World of Warcraft multi-boxing is not against the ToS. I am wondering if they will take the same stance for Diablo III. I can just imagine multi-boxing players farming high level dungeons for loot over and over with characters decked out in full magic find items. My brother is already talking about it.
And if you can sell 2 items for $5 each hour, hey, that is $10 an hour.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
is there any indicaton that +magic find is going to be a stat in this game?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: And if you can sell 2 items for $5 each hour, hey, that is $10 an hour.
The cost per hour would have to factor in the time spent getting the items, not how many of them you sold in a given timeframe (or not just that).
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: is there any indicaton that +magic find is going to be a stat in this game?
I vaguely recall something along the lines that it would not be a part of the game.
I don't have any evidence off hand though. If it is, we should start thinking of some clever name for those particular item sets.
Work clothes? Money maker?
Maybe refer to those who run around looking for rare items to sell for Gs pawners?
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Something else to think about. Loot will be character independant, meaning if you see something drop, nobody else can pick it up or even see it.
That should cut down on all of those hackers that had programs to automatically pick items up.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
They also said that very few (almost none) items will be soulbound, so you can sell the item you previously purchased. Though there is some sort of cooldown to reduce flipping.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I gotta say that as a stay at home dad, if I can generate some extra income to the family by playing a video game...it is appealing. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see how it works out.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:I gotta say that as a stay at home dad, if I can generate some extra income to the family by playing a video game...it is appealing.
The currency generated by playing the game itself would be extraordinarily minimal compared to what degree of attention and focus it would require you to take off of your kids and the house.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Entirely probable.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
In the end, you're going to be "paying" yourself at most (and most likely a lot less) than the rate at which gold farmers generate (such as the aforementioned prisoners in China doing hard labour) minus Blizzard's cut.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
That'll be fine on its own, I am amazed that most of my friends will be able to pay off this game. I probably won't play it near enough to earn back what I put into it, but still, it's a fun idea. Especially considering I can use the D3 auctionhouse to buy myself sparkleponies in WOW.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
The money generated probably won't equate to what you could make per hour in real life. That's how it goes in most games that allow this type of thing.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: The money generated probably won't equate to what you could make per hour in real life. That's how it goes in most games that allow this type of thing.
Well sure, but seeing as how 99.9% of games merely take your money and never give any back it's still better.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
All I'm saying is that I want to keep an eye on it, because -if- it is profitable, I wouldn't mind trying it out. I do own all the other Diablos and did enjoy them.
It will most likely -not- be worth doing for profit, only for the fun of the game. We shall see...I'm not holding my breath.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
As I made note of before, there is a way to make real money off of this. But that's only through marketplace manipulation, not being the farmers.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: As I made note of before, there is a way to make real money off of this. But that's only through marketplace manipulation, not being the farmers.
Psh, I won't be inviting you to *my* guild. You aren't a "contributor".
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Depends on your definition of "real money".
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Hey, I'll just accumulate a ton of items, and if I ever want to buy a new shiny toy I'll just flood the AH and hope for the best!
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
Am I to understand that Blizzard will be giving you the option to purchase POWER?
Why is that supposed to be fun?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The point is that that option already exists, and blizzard is sick of spending resources fighting the black market, so they're co-opting it instead.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: As I made note of before, there is a way to make real money off of this. But that's only through marketplace manipulation, not being the farmers.
Psh, I won't be inviting you to *my* guild. You aren't a "contributor".
what's the line on that? I'm a 'captain of industry,' a Galtian superhero. One of the Rational Actors that makes your needs-based economy of fake pixelweapons provide for you. Shelving your petulant collectivist jealousy upon my aspiration to the means of wealth generation is just more statist punishment of the productive.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I think its interesting that so many people think this they are likely to make money off this but no one here has indicated they are likely to spend money on this. It's a zero sum game and the house always comes out positive which means that on average, the players will end up spending more money this way.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I have NO idea how this is supposed to be a zero-sum game, when the objects in question related to wealth generation are generated limitlessly via play.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
To be honest unless Blizzard actively adds new content/items every few months the way they do with WoW, I don't see it becoming a zero sum game. There will always be those that will want the best armor, weapons, and trinkets. Rarely are those items actually required to farm or beat a certain level. Since that is the case, I think after getting a character to a certain point I would probably make the decision to sell that shiny Stone of Jordan (Or Diablo 3 Equivalent) instead of using it myself.
In WoW I get sick of raiding and wiping on a hard mode boss for 4 hours straight (Hard Mode Ragnaros ftl) but I'm sure I could spend 4 hours farming the same dungeon for items in Diablo 3 and still have fun.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: The point is that that option already exists, and blizzard is sick of spending resources fighting the black market, so they're co-opting it instead.
This. The market is going to exist anyway. You could always buy power. By running it themselves they can take a cut and have the game profit them as long as people are trading.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: To be honest unless Blizzard actively adds new content/items every few months the way they do with WoW, I don't see it becoming a zero sum game. There will always be those that will want the best armor, weapons, and trinkets. Rarely are those items actually required to farm or beat a certain level. Since that is the case, I think after getting a character to a certain point I would probably make the decision to sell that shiny Stone of Jordan (Or Diablo 3 Equivalent) instead of using it myself.
In WoW I get sick of raiding and wiping on a hard mode boss for 4 hours straight (Hard Mode Ragnaros ftl) but I'm sure I could spend 4 hours farming the same dungeon for items in Diablo 3 and still have fun.
I hated wow until I could be part of a raiding group that wouldn't wipe. Now there are a lot of cataclysm raids which can be done pretty casually.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Hard mode Ragnaros is not a pretty casual fight.
I'm glad I no longer have to find 24 other people to raid, but I'm sad that I frequently have to sit 4 dps because all our raiders show up.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Anybody here get a Diablo 3 beta key? They went out today. I sure didn't :\.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I didn't, but I am part of the staff on www.moba-champions.com now. We have a weekly webcast called Beyond the Rift every Tuesday night at 10 PM EST. We mostly cover League of Legends right now, but we also go into HoN, DoTA2, and other Moba games. We also will be adding Diablo 3 into our show soon. If you'd like to come watch and support us, you are more than welcome to. I usually give away a couple of $10 RP cards every week, and we have a good chat room going during the show.
I've contacted Blizzard about getting some beta keys, hopefully they will hook us up. If I get any extras I'll give them away here.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Awesome! I play LoL just about everyday, I'll check it out if nothing else than to get RP cards. Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Awesome! I play LoL just about everyday, I'll check it out if nothing else than to get RP cards.
I'm Vaniel on the show, and in game. Add me if you like and we can play a few games.
I started giving away a couple of cards a week. Last week it was one RP card and one Arctic Warfare Caitlyn skin.
I recently completed my collection in LoL. I now own all of the skins available in the store. The only skins I am now missing are the Triumphant Ryze skin (only pro players get it), Pax TF, Winged Hussar Xin Zhao (Only polish players got it) and the two recruiter skins. I have every other skin. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm Lurin in game, I'll send you a friend invite.
Posted by BBegley (Member # 12638) on :
Have to reread Cory Doctorow's novel "For the Win" now.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I recently completed my collection in LoL. I now own all of the skins available in the store. The only skins I am now missing are the Triumphant Ryze skin (only pro players get it), Pax TF, Winged Hussar Xin Zhao (Only polish players got it) and the two recruiter skins. I have every other skin.
Do you feel this comic accurately represents you in LoL?
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I recently completed my collection in LoL. I now own all of the skins available in the store. The only skins I am now missing are the Triumphant Ryze skin (only pro players get it), Pax TF, Winged Hussar Xin Zhao (Only polish players got it) and the two recruiter skins. I have every other skin.
Do you feel this comic accurately represents you in LoL?
Sadly, yes... I don't know why I want all of the skins. Maybe I just need a new hobby or type of collection that is tangible. Any ideas? I hate stamps, coins, and pokemon. Maybe old school NES games would be good.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Maybe volunteer at a homeless shelter...
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Maybe volunteer at a homeless shelter...
Brilliant! He could collect soup bowls.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Maybe volunteer at a homeless shelter...
Every other Thursday I help out a local charity that provides backpacks full of food to homeless elementary school children so they have something to eat on the weekends. The get school breakfast and lunches on the weekdays but they often have nothing on the weekends.
I got that covered. The rest of the time I hang out with my wife or play League of Legends. Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Geraine, I am a huge fan of The Replica Prop Forum. It's a huge collection of people who like movie or TV props. Many collect actual film props, buy replicas, or make replicas. It's a really neat hobby to get into. If you have an artistic side, you can try your hand at making props.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by dabbler: Geraine, I am a huge fan of The Replica Prop Forum. It's a huge collection of people who like movie or TV props. Many collect actual film props, buy replicas, or make replicas. It's a really neat hobby to get into. If you have an artistic side, you can try your hand at making props.
This is.... Pretty awesome. I'll check it out! I'm not artistic in the least, but I do love movies and shows.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Delayed until early 2012. I'm a mixture of pleased and sad. I was getting the feeling that things weren't wired tight on this game. I mean, they were redoing the Demon Hunter's entire resource system. But I was really hoping to tackle Diablo on Christmas.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
How wonderful, Diablo 3 is free to those who subscribe to WOW, but only if you have been subscribed for (I believe) the last 12 months.
Bah, I guess I would have paid $60 for it regardless of this deal so I shouldn't complain. I imagine I should applaud Blizzard for expecting so much per month for WOW and offering such big incentives to do so.
Anybody else excited about the new expansion? I was kinda hoping for Titan, but I suppose there's a chance we'll see an surprise announcement at some point.
Edit: Ah, nvm, you purchase an "annual pass" or 12 months, and that will permit you to get D3 for free, you also get the expansion as part of the bundle. That's interesting.
[ October 21, 2011, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
wooooooo
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Also I *really* wish they could come up with new classes for WOW that are not practically identical to classes they have in other games. These past few years it really feels like the lines that divide WOW from Diablo have blurred a good deal.
I mean a new class is cool, and it's been awhile, but monk...?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I have been looking forward to Pandaren Monks since 2004, thank you very much.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I know you guys don't like the connotations of the word, but to paraquote ben stiller: Blizzard has gone full retard. You never go full retard.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
A useful post: the yearly pass lock-in for Diablo III — this, more than anything else, proves how much they fear SWTOR. They are trying to stop the bleeding for their next investor call.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: A useful post: the yearly pass lock-in for Diablo III — this, more than anything else, proves how much they fear SWTOR. They are trying to stop the bleeding for their next investor call.
And they've turned WoW into Pokemon. Pokemon is a popular game, so that'll bring folks right?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I must say I do like the talent/skill changes they are implementing. It's a good direction, we'll have to see how execution goes.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I can't disagree with the talent changes. Talent trees are the perfect example, starting with Diablo II (and subsequently made widespread among games) of an idea that gives a player 'choices' but which only offer up the opportunity to be wrong.
WoW in particular at present is about the best that the old system of talent trees can work, and it's still a 'choices' system, where you have to do your homework and find out what the 1 or 2 correct builds are for your spec.
I suppose they sat down, wondered what they were going to do to try to bring back the ideal theory behind talent trees, pared it down to trying to give players real choices at a series of junctures, then just pared it down even more when they realized how minimal the actual choices could be. The end result is consistent with that.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I actually haven't looked at the talents in detail yet, but I think there's an additional thing Talents do beyond what Samp just discussed: give you a cool new thing to be proud of at every level.
When I go several levels without getting to acquire cool new things, I get bored and leveling stops being as fun.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Talent trees are the perfect example, starting with Diablo II (and subsequently made widespread among games) of an idea that gives a player 'choices' but which only offer up the opportunity to be wrong.
You clearly don't remember Diablo II very well. The ladder resets next Tuesday, and I am planning on starting a Tesladin (Holy Shock Paladin).
Here are just some of the recommended talent allocations for this build (taken from the guide on the forums):
quote: 1) Fully synergized Tesladin with vengeance as backup skill
And this build is not a standard one that very many people play. Far more common is the "Hammerdin" build. Also far more common are the "Zealot" and "Avenger" builds, which are all very different from each-other. Less popular but still played are "Holy Freeze" Paladins. Finally there is a "Smiter" paladin that with the correct gear is the top build to run the hardest game area with. Each of these builds then have a wide diversity of skill allocation choices. Then there are a variety of non-cookie cutter builds that are for fun or are tailored to some specific gear choices.
And this is just one class. There are 6 others.
Diablo II has the most variety of viable builds than any other game I've ever played. By far. It's one of its greatest strengths. These differences aren't superficial either.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:You clearly don't remember Diablo II very well.
I remember Diablo II well enough to know that it's exactly like every other talent tree system in existence: you have to do your homework and figure out which builds work, and learn how to avoid the hundreds of ways you can gimp your character right out the gate.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
D2 was always extra fun for that, because you couldn't ever reespec, just reroll. You have to exactingly plan it out at the beginning and hope your build doesn't get nerfed through the floor.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I remember Diablo II well enough to know that it's exactly like every other talent tree system in existence: you have to do your homework and figure out which builds work, and learn how to avoid the hundreds of ways you can gimp your character right out the gate.
That's a bit different than saying that you don't have real choice. You do. There are dozens of ways just to make a Holy Shock Paladin. Hundreds of ways to make a viable Paladin. Ways that affect your game-play experience.
It is nice, however, that since patch 1.13, you can respec at will. That was something that always stung.
[ October 22, 2011, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I never said that you don't have real choice. Talent trees offer choices, a very excruciatingly small percentage of which aren't terrible.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
And today Blizzard has announced that both the real currency AH and the gold AH are being taken down in March, as part of their Loot 2.0 plan.
Kinda weird that in Blizzard games we've reached a point where we don't just design patches around the whole game, but talk about overhauling one section of it.
Posted by Sa'eed (Member # 12368) on :
Good of them to fix their mistakes. I suspect there was considerable pressure on the game designers to incorporate some passive money scheme. The experiment has not worked out. People did not eagerly fork over money for virtual items...or rather, the ones who used the real currency auction house did not make up for the ones that abandoned the game (and therefore were unlikely to come back for the expansions).
I'm alarmed by reports of the expansion being $60 but at least this change applies to the base game as well.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Look at all these words I had on the subject of talent trees, man.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)