I think it is quite possible that my husband and son would forego eating and sleep entirely if possible. They are already talking about how great it will be the week of Thanksgiving when they both are off work and school for an entire week and can play for more hours per day than they do now.
But, mainly I started this thread to brag - we've been having NAT issues with our configuration, and I, yes I have fixed it! The good news - my son and husband are very happy. The bad news - I am essentially a gaming widow now that they can fully access xBox live and play online again.
However, I must admit I have slaughtered some Call of Duty zombies in my day and the new pentagon mode where you play as JFK - awesomeoness. Pure awesomeness.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
There's a big stink in Miami about the game's portrayal of Fidel Castro.
Apparently the Cuban government isn't to fond of the idea that Americans want him dead.
That hype is actually improving local sales of it.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
But on the zombie mode you get to play as Castro! And Nixon! And McNamara!
Actually I did hear about the controversy. Sales of the game don't seem to be hurting anywhere, though.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm refusing to buy this game as my favorite call of duty character(s) of all time die in it.
"For as long as you live the heart of this army will never be broken." indeed.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Who gets attached to Call of Duty characters? I don't even know their names.
I'm just here for the zombies. And playing Headquarters on Live.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I have to admit that I remain baffled by the popularity of the Call of Duty franchise. It's like deer hunting: one of those things that apparently a bunch of people enjoy for reasons that seem to have very little to do with the activity itself.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I should have it soon, maybe even tomorrow. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I have to admit that I remain baffled by the popularity of the Call of Duty franchise. It's like deer hunting: one of those things that apparently a bunch of people enjoy for reasons that seem to have very little to do with the activity itself.
How is Call of Duty like deer hunting Tom?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I have to admit that I remain baffled by the popularity of the Call of Duty franchise.
You often seem very befuddled with why fun games are fun! "The cold war is now an action movie that you can play" doesn't seem too hard to understand.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I understand why others like it more than I do, but the notion of playing a gritty realistic war game when I could be having lasers and/or psychic powers and/or launching fireballs or whatever just seems weird to me. Games are there so I can take a break from reality.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Heh. The thing I find ridiculous about the more recent Calls of Duty is that they're no more realistic than, say, Team Fortress 2. And they're certainly less fun to play.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:And they're certainly less fun for me to play.
Fixed that for ya.
You thinking you are the authority on what games are fun and which aren't is an awfully annoying habit.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Games are there so I can take a break from reality.
Not like the game's particularly realistic outside of trying to accurately visually represent weapons, but here's a level just for you
quote:players take the roles of John F. Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Robert McNamara, and Fidel Castro as they fight zombies at The Pentagon
there you go
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: And they're certainly less fun to play.
You do this with MMO's too. It's like if you don't see why they are fun, you're content to say they're certainly not fun.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Yes. Yes, that is absolutely the case.
--------
quote:You thinking you are the authority on what games are fun and which aren't is an awfully annoying habit.
I am, I suspect, the supreme and unquestionable authority on what games I find fun. If other people find things that are not fun to be fun, that's their problem and merely a matter of some intellectual curiosity. *grin*
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I am, I suspect, the supreme and unquestionable authority on what games I find fun.
This is unquestionably true. If you said a game is "not fun for me" or "I don't find it fun" it wouldn't be the least bit annoying. To instead claim that the game itself is "not fun" just because it isn't to your taste is pretty damn arrogant.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You seem surprised.
This is how Tom is. You merely notice when it comes to this because you disagree with him.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Never `spected to see a thread like this with your name on top of it, Belle;) Not that I'm complainin'
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:To instead claim that the game itself is "not fun" just because it isn't to your taste is pretty damn arrogant.
Some people are entitled to enjoy themselves with what they think is fun. Doesn't mean they're right. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Ahh, another Davidson classic: the emoticon deflection! Anyway, glad y'all are enjoying the game, Belle.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you're taking this seriously, Jeff, you really shouldn't be. Certainly I'm not. *laugh*
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
That's why it's a deflection! Anyway, as rivka pointed out it's not uncommon. I'm not really bothered. I think it's kinda funny, actually. "That game's not fun, psh." Sort of like Ebert on games being art, really. Now, if your remarks were intended as some sort of ironic commentary on something like that, well, your irony needs work. *shrug*
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you would really like me to elaborate on why Call of Duty is inferior to a dozen other shooters, I suppose I could do that. But it's my opinion that this elaboration would be somewhat ridiculous, especially given that my initial post in the thread acknowledged that it's popular for reasons I personally don't understand. If there are people out there who're taking my opinions as gospel on matters that can only be purely matters of opinion, and those people are not me, those people are being stupid.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I am curious to know whether/how-many people here actively feel Call of Duty is BETTER than most other shooters. If so, what qualities does it have that other shooters do not? How much of it is the mechanics, and how much is the flavor (weird as it seems to me, I imagine there are people out there who actually prefer realistic escapism to fantasy escapism).
And I am curious about Tom's opinion to the contrary, mostly in an academic fashion. While the "is it fun" question is ultimately subjective, there's a lot of ways you can objectively look at games and determine reasons they might be particularly fun or not fun.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I think it's pretty clear that if there are people who're taking your opinion as gospel on this matter, they ain't postin' in this thread yet. As for ridiculous, I think there's something to be said for comparing the fun had by other people playing two games and suggesting that the fun had in one is lacking somehow. Now that has just gotta ping pretty high on a silly-scale.
Had you done as Xavier suggested or posted some of the reasons why you, personally, find it inferior to other shooters, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. It'd also be posting much more germane to, y'know, the thread it's in for a discussion board instead of what you brought to it: 'you don't think that's fun, do you? (veiled redneck joke)' Anyway, on to said germane posting!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I played over at my brother's house for the first time today. Zombie killing was fun! I especially liked the comments that the German and Russian characters made while we were killing zombies. It was hilarious. Even my mom laughed, and she HATES video games.
I'm absolutely terrible at Call of Duty. I'm about a decade out of practice with my video games, and I'm nowhere near as good as those people who play for hours on end, obviously, but I don't ever see myself having the free time to train up to that level. Oh well, getting mowed down is fun too. Plus my bar for success is really low. When I got a 3-Killstreak tonight, my brother actually slapped me on the back and said "good job!" I took the condescending praise for all it was worth.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: If you would really like me to elaborate on why Call of Duty is inferior to a dozen other shooters, I suppose I could do that. But it's my opinion that this elaboration would be somewhat ridiculous, especially given that my initial post in the thread acknowledged that it's popular for reasons I personally don't understand.
quote:It's like if you don't see why they are fun, you're content to say they're certainly not fun.
Now, really, tell me you don't understand what's wrong with this tact?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I am curious to know whether/how-many people here actively feel Call of Duty is BETTER than most other shooters. If so, what qualities does it have that other shooters do not?
If you want an overview of what makes it a good game, run down the list of review quotes at Metacritic. Even though the state of games journalism is still pretty lol these days, the game hasn't garnered a single negative review yet, I don't think.
But it's a very solid, well executed entry. Quality issues alone make it superior to most entries.
(It's also fun)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Now, really, tell me you don't understand what's wrong with this tact?
The lack of same, clearly.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: (weird as it seems to me, I imagine there are people out there who actually prefer realistic escapism to fantasy escapism).
Definitely. I enjoy fantasy escapism, but regardless of the genre of escapism I prefer it to at least have elements of realism, usually the more the better.
For example, the new mode in Fallout: New Vegas where you have to drink water, eat, and sleep. Fallout in generally isn't exactly a "realistic" game, of course, but this element to it is just awesome. I can't imagine playing the game with that mode turned off.
Call of Duty is obviously "realistic" in very different ways, but regardless, the appeal of realism in one's escapism is definitely something I can understand.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: If you would really like me to elaborate on why Call of Duty is inferior to a dozen other shooters, I suppose I could do that. But it's my opinion that this elaboration would be somewhat ridiculous, especially given that my initial post in the thread acknowledged that it's popular for reasons I personally don't understand. If there are people out there who're taking my opinions as gospel on matters that can only be purely matters of opinion, and those people are not me, those people are being stupid.
I'm still waiting on an answer to a question I asked you Tom, I was looking forward to it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Call of Duty is, like I said, possibly like deer hunting in that the primary appeal of the activity is not the activity itself but the trappings that are hung around it -- like, say, hanging out with friends, playing pick-up football, etc. It's not the core of the game being played that's important; it's that everyone's playing.
-----------
quote:Now, really, tell me you don't understand what's wrong with this tact?
No, really, I don't. Had someone come on here and said, "OMG CODBLOPS = best FPS evar!!!1!", Xavier would not have been posting to ask why they were so arrogantly ignoring everyone else's opinion on the matter.
But, hey, I'm on the record as having loathed Halo, too. *grin*
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Myself, I like more fantastical escapism in general, and if I'm going to play a campaign as a single player, I would not pick Call of Duty. I don't think I've ever played it on campaign. My husband, however, wants there to be some element of realism. *shrug* That's why they make different types of games.
Tom has a good point - one of the reasons the game is so popular is because it's so popular - you can play it with a bunch of your friends. It is exceedingly fun, to me, to play a zombie mode with our friends who live more than 30 minutes away, with the ease of creating private matches and inviting friends in and the headsets, it's about the interaction as much as the gameplay.
I also like the variety of games available in multiplayer - I like playing demolition and headquarters much more than straight deathmatches. Also, the demographic playing it trends older than Halo multiplayer, I think. Maybe that's just my perception - but all the friends we play with are over 30.
Posted by Rawrain (Member # 12414) on :
I felt more hype about the new Goldeneye for the Wii, which isn't bad I say.
I assume Black Ops is just an even more awesome ramped up Modern Warfare 2, in which case I would be obliged to play and slaughter you all... okay I am not that good, maybe a decent challenge at least :D
And why use Xbox Live, paying for something you're already paying for .-. PS3 is better for that reason >;o
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: This is how Tom is. You merely notice when it comes to this because you disagree with him.
I actually have never played Call of Duty (in any form). I have played (and had fun playing) other games he's made these statements on though I suppose.
Edit: Erased a bunch more crap. I realized I don't actually care enough to maintain this argument.
[ November 15, 2010, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: I actually have never played Call of Duty (in any form). I have played (and had fun playing) other games he's made these statements on though I suppose.
Yeah, you are missing my point.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
8 separate indications of facial expression later
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Call of Duty is, like I said, possibly like deer hunting in that the primary appeal of the activity is not the activity itself but the trappings that are hung around it -- like, say, hanging out with friends, playing pick-up football, etc. It's not the core of the game being played that's important; it's that everyone's playing.
I play even more fundamentally social games — mobas, for instance — and this is not really very true even in their case.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I have it on good authority that some people enjoy shows like Smallville, too, despite these shows being bad. *grin*
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
9
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I have it on good authority that some people enjoy shows like Smallville, too, despite these shows being bad. *grin*
Bah, this is almost exactly the analogy I made with the post I deleted, so I need to respond.
Sure, call it "bad". I won't argue (unless of course I think it is "good").
Call Smallville "not fun", and I'll object, even if I've never seen the show. If someone enjoys something, it is fun for them, by the very definition of the word.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I am fine with actually watching/playing something long enough to get a feel for it and then calling it bad, complete with explanation.
I mean, don't get me wrong, but if in a neutral setting someone who I otherwise didn't know made the deer hunting comparison as such, I would assume two things.
1. this person is older than my dad 2. longshot odds on if they really played the game at all
but mentioning bad tv programs reminded me of something I had to do.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I think the social gaming aspect is certainly a big reason for its success, although personally when I want to engage in some co-op zombie killing I head straight for the Left 4 Dead franchise.
Edit: And as to campaign play, I'm not much for single-player shooters unless there's something unique about the atmosphere and story -- Bioshock, The Darkness.
Otherwise I'm a lot more interested in co-op shooters like Gears of War, Ghost Recon, and Halo than in shooters with exclusively single-player campaigns.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Yup, I absolutely and completely see no need at all to buy this game, the story is nifty and all but I can get just about 90% of the same experience as someone playing it just by watching the 'Let's Play' video of it, if I did buy it it would be for multiplayer and i refuse to pay 50$ just to play online in an arcade shooter.
And the more I watch it the more enraged I am at the callous deaths of Viktor Reznor and Dmitri Pentanko (protangonist in World at War) it's a crying damn shame and I'm pissed.
It's like watching Serenity only for Wash and Book to die randomly, their appearances are awesome throughout but them BLAM dead.
I refuse to buy this game, I can get 90% of the experience for free online to get an above pretty good cold war thriller action movie, I don't need anything else from it.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I have it on good authority that some people enjoy shows like Smallville, too, despite these shows being bad. *grin*
Hey now, the show might be bad, but Erica Durance is on the show, so I'll watch. Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I think the social gaming aspect is certainly a big reason for its success, although personally when I want to engage in some co-op zombie killing I head straight for the Left 4 Dead franchise.
I think this game appeals to people that want to kill zombies while wearing kevlar. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Tom states his opinions as facts. He's been doing it for 11 years. I can't honestly say I understand people still expression surprise at this.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Tom states his opinions as facts. He's been doing it for 11 years. I can't honestly say I understand people still expression surprise at this.
I guess its just the obviously subjective nature of the word "fun" that throws me. Having someone declare their opinion as fact on something that's hopelessly subjective makes my brain seize up I guess .
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
He is amused by that reaction.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I am indeed. Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
My brother got it. Will play.
Killing Zombies and killing with rc cars look cool. And that mode where use every gun and that mode where you only have one bullet look hypnotically awesome.
And I hear the campaign is actually decent.
Kinda glad they got rid of commando. Even though commando is fun.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier:
quote:Tom states his opinions as facts. He's been doing it for 11 years. I can't honestly say I understand people still expression surprise at this.
I guess its just the obviously subjective nature of the word "fun" that throws me. Having someone declare their opinion as fact on something that's hopelessly subjective makes my brain seize up I guess .
What don't understand is why so many people feel the need to preface things which are obviously opinion with "I think" or "In my opinion"? Why do so many think that failure to preface an obvious opinion with such a disclaimer is tantamount to declare ones opinion to be indisputable?
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
If I were to speculate, I'd say people feel the need because it sometimes actually does distinguish between describing a subjective evaluation and telling someone else their own evaluation is wrong. Because the latter can be somewhat rude, many people err on the side of caution in order to avoid causing offense.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I really, REALLY miss the SpecOps missions. My brother and I spent HOURS trying to master those with the last game, and it was a blast.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
This game is made by treyarch, and while they're competent, there's no way they could od something as awesome as spec ops.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Xavier:
quote:Tom states his opinions as facts. He's been doing it for 11 years. I can't honestly say I understand people still expression surprise at this.
I guess its just the obviously subjective nature of the word "fun" that throws me. Having someone declare their opinion as fact on something that's hopelessly subjective makes my brain seize up I guess .
What don't understand is why so many people feel the need to preface things which are obviously opinion with "I think" or "In my opinion"? Why do so many think that failure to preface an obvious opinion with such a disclaimer is tantamount to declare ones opinion to be indisputable?
Because there are lots of people out there that actually DO consider their opinions to be indisputable.
Also, lots of listeners aren't all that great at differentiating between recitation of fact and offering of opinion. Expressly identifying them can cut down on confusion a lot of the time.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I play Aliens vs. Predator to simulate being an Alien or a Predator. I play Call of Duty to simulate being an American.
Seems like fantastical escapism to me Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
The definition of an opinion is something you think is correct, so this discussion is pretty pointless, imo.
I'll say "imo" if I'm just trying to be friendly or if I'm basing it off of a small exposure to something like having only played an RTS for a week or something.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I play Aliens vs. Predator to simulate being an Alien or a Predator. I play Call of Duty to simulate being an American.
Seems like fantastical escapism to me
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Tom states his opinions as facts. He's been doing it for 11 years. I can't honestly say I understand people still expression surprise at this.
no, not surprised by that. its how reliably he doesn't understand the entertainment value of some games!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, I wouldn't say that's true. I understand the entertainment value of shooters, although the popularity of certain shooters compared to superior ones that are more fun surprises me; I suspect it has something to do with the "deer hunting" effect, and perhaps something else to do with people being silly enough to play their shooters on the Xbox instead of the way shooters are meant to be played. *grin* But I maintain that MMOs are popular in a way that is largely disconnected from any entertainment value at all, unless you consider smoking outside in the rain to also be "entertaining." Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I play Call of Duty to simulate being an American.
Well, heck, you experience a more appropriate simulation playing Grand Theft Auto IV. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I play Bejeweled when I want to simulate being a Belgian. I've always assumed the people being hauled out of their cars in GTA who don't even try to stop me are Canadians.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Well, I wouldn't say that's true. I understand the entertainment value of shooters, although the popularity of certain shooters compared to superior ones that are more fun surprises me; I suspect it has something to do with the "deer hunting" effect, and perhaps something else to do with people being silly enough to play their shooters on the Xbox instead of the way shooters are meant to be played. *grin* But I maintain that MMOs are popular in a way that is largely disconnected from any entertainment value at all, unless you consider smoking outside in the rain to also be "entertaining."
I play Forgotten Hope, Project Reality and Arma 2/Joint Ops high on the fun/realism list.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: Well, heck, you experience a more appropriate simulation playing Grand Theft Auto IV.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
If there are people out there who're taking my opinions as gospel on matters that can only be purely matters of opinion, and those people are not me, those people are being stupid. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)