"Legislative activists"... heh.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
It's a new day.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Shouldn't that be 'activist congresspeople'? Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
One thing I do wonder is if the state legislature effectively backing up the state courts, will the bitching and moaning about 'activist judges' decrease or not?
After all, one can hardly be an activist judge if one's decision is approved by the legislature.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: One thing I do wonder is if the state legislature effectively backing up the state courts, will the bitching and moaning about 'activist judges' decrease or not?
Doubt it. It didn't help in California, after all.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
"Activist judges" are, generally speaking, judges that rule in a way that you disagree with.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: "Legislative activists"... heh.
lool.
Sadly, I envisioned that this would be the watchwordery coined the second that the anti-ssm crowd couldn't pin this one on "activist judges"
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Me, I'm waiting for the activist voters to finally pass a gay marriage amendment.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Me, I'm waiting for the activist voters to finally pass a gay marriage amendment.
That was essentially what I told FundieDude at work when he promised that if (he said if, but his anger over the issue makes me think he knows it's 'when') SSM is legal in Florida, he'd get his kids in private school.
"OK man, that's your right. But you'd better start saving up for your grandkids to go to private school too."
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
On the plus side, if any of his kids turn out gay ..
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: One thing I do wonder is if the state legislature effectively backing up the state courts, will the bitching and moaning about 'activist judges' decrease or not?
Absolutely not. It isn't fair for the legislature to interfere with what's basically a judicial function.</sarcasm>
Oh, and that's 4 down, 47 to go.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: "Legislative activists"... heh.
lool.
Sadly, I envisioned that this would be the watchwordery coined the second that the anti-ssm crowd couldn't pin this one on "activist judges"
As ambyr pointed out, that's exactly what happened initially in California.
Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
It wasn't "legislative activists" that got this veto overrided. You can not go anywhere in burlington without seeing groups of people protesting the Govener. My favorite is the 20'X 14' "Shame on Douglas" poster on a random house down town.
You can bet he is not going to get re-elected. He pissed off alot of people.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:You can bet he is not going to get re-elected. He pissed off alot of people.
I don't know anything about Iowa politics, but what I do know is that SSM is a proven means of turning out the vote.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: "Legislative activists"... heh.
:snort:
Damn those legislative activists! Always usurping the power of the vocal minority that wishes to discriminate against the slightly smaller minority!
quote: One thing I do wonder is if the state legislature effectively backing up the state courts, will the bitching and moaning about 'activist judges' decrease or not?
Well, in that the original complaint about "activist" judges represents a fundamental misapprehension about the nature of our governmental and legal processes, I would say that that general *type* of complaint is not likely to stop. But just wait- once the decision to allow gay marriage is affirmed by the greater population, even if that takes twenty years, people will be bitching about the activist voter, the activist majority, then the majority oppressors, etc. Some Christians (by no means all) are only comfortable while persecuting, or while being "persecuted."
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:You can bet he is not going to get re-elected. He pissed off alot of people.
I don't know anything about Iowa politics, but what I do know is that SSM is a proven means of turning out the vote.
Burlington is in Vermont, FYI. Vermont politics are, as I understand, a little bipolar. Like a lot of New England, a very progressive urban and suburban population, with some rural conservatives.
Posted by lobo (Member # 1761) on :
"Some Christians (by no means all) are only comfortable while persecuting, or while being "persecuted.""
That is a bigoted, stupid statement...
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Can you falsify it? I'm not particularly invested in the statement. Perhaps it is only "a few," or perhaps it is only "one." Are you saying there are none?
Or perhaps it's upsetting to think that there are only a few? Perhaps you would prefer "most?" And what about yourself?
Or perhaps I can add to it and say, "some people," rather than some Christians. Are Christians people too? Or is there no one in the world who fits that particular description? And how would you characterize anti-ssm activists? Are these people who are neither being put-upon, nor putting-upon others? I find that unlikely.
Posted by lobo (Member # 1761) on :
I can only go by my own experiences, but I don't personally know any Christians who are only "comfortable" while being persecuted or persecuting others. Maybe you run in strange circles... It seems implied by your statement that you feel that most Christians fall in that category.
And what about me are you asking? If I fall in that category? I don't believe I do... I certainly have never felt comfortable being picked on. I am quite sarcastic, but I don't think that has anything to do with my religion...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
What I think of when I view that statement is the scores of e-conservatives who repeatedly bemoan how persecuted christians are, and especially the ones who say that they feel persecuted when they express their desire for the persecution of gays.
An abnormally common phenom.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
I think anyone that ever utters the phrase "War on Christmas" without irony falls neatly into that category. That would include several prominant conservative commentators with substantial followings.
Posted by lobo (Member # 1761) on :
That doesn't mean they enjoy being persecuted, it may just mean that they (or their values) ARE being persecuted...
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Or believe they are being persecuted...
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:That doesn't mean they enjoy being persecuted, it may just mean that they (or their values) ARE being persecuted...
By stores selling "Holiday trees" instead of "Christmas trees"? By non-Christian faiths asking to have space next to the Nativity scene on the courthouse lawn for their own holiday displays? That's persecution?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Paul Goldner: Or believe they are being persecuted...
I get the impression from many of the on-air personalities and even some politicians that (and I could be wrong) they don't think they're doing things correctly unless they're being persecuted, rather in real life or in their imagination. It's like, they think if people agree with you then you must be doing something wrong.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by lobo: It seems implied by your statement that you feel that most Christians fall in that category.
It is explicit in my statement that this is not the case. Call me a liar, but don't assign to me something I went out of my way not to say, and don't believe.
quote: That doesn't mean they enjoy being persecuted, it may just mean that they (or their values) ARE being persecuted...
To enjoy is not the same thing as to be comfortable. To be comfortable is also to be familiar with, or inured to something, especially as an alternative to some less accustomed thing. Get a good dictionary, I use one all the time, and it really, really helps.
Here's the thing dude. I choose my words carefully when I choose to make a statement that I know will be disagreed with. Now, when you turn my statement, which had the words "some," and "comfortable," and interpret that to mean "most" and "enjoy," you have missed the mark in reading comprehension by a very wide margin.
And here's why: you want to assign to me beliefs that fit your picture of me as someone who believes the things I believe to some unacceptable and extreme level. So to you, my use of words is just understatement. But to someone who might agree, and might actually feel more strongly than me, my words might be *too* understated, and so might sound like "only a few," instead of "some." Do you see what I'm driving at? The degree to which you misunderstand and misrepresent me is no less than that. I choose my words so that they can carry the meaning I intend. If you make an honest attempt at understanding, and fail, then I can always correct that. But this doesn't feel like an honest attempt- I don't think you put much effort at all into understanding other people.
So next time you feel the need to tell me what I "seem" to be saying, you should probably look at what I am saying, and go from there.
[ April 08, 2009, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
This discussion is pretty pointless without some level of persecution agreed on for the purposes of the discussion.
Salem Witch Trials persecution? Well, obviously not that much persecution.
Some much lower level of something that fits the definition but not the common use of persecution? *shrug* Sometimes I think there is that going on, though of course Christians certainly do it as well. So I can view the statement 'War on Christmas' without thinking it is ironic.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well there is just the historical irony to consider. The Christians have waged many a bloody and pointless war over the centuries, so the "War on Christmas" doesn't really have much of a bite, does it?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by Paul Goldner: Or believe they are being persecuted...
I get the impression from many of the on-air personalities and even some politicians that (and I could be wrong) they don't think they're doing things correctly unless they're being persecuted, rather in real life or in their imagination. It's like, they think if people agree with you then you must be doing something wrong.
Remind you of any authors you're familiar with?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:I get the impression from many of the on-air personalities and even some politicians that (and I could be wrong) they don't think they're doing things correctly unless they're being persecuted, rather in real life or in their imagination. It's like, they think if people agree with you then you must be doing something wrong.
Yeah, but I think that has more to do with how one becomes famous than what actual average people think. Acting like you're being persecuted or persecuting others is a classic way to get attention - hence on-air personalities, politicians, or other people whose career entails attracting a lot of attention probably do it a lot more than average people.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Well there is just the historical irony to consider. The Christians have waged many a bloody and pointless war over the centuries, so the "War on Christmas" doesn't really have much of a bite, does it?
That's some insightful historical commentary there!
'The Christians'. Ha.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Point taken- I meant it to sound kind of, I don't know, Biblical or something. But if you consider it to mean "the different Christian peoples," which is what I intended, then it might make more sense.
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