I'm pissed, how could a bunch of spec. ops get into japan with weapons and kidnap a Japanese citizen. Not to mention he's the CEO of a billion dollar software corporation.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
At least it's mildly interesting.
But come on Peter. After what your dad did, and what you KNEW Nathan was planning, why in the name of logic would you even CONSIDER hugging him you twit? Have the writers decided to change most every dynamic of the show EXCEPT your blatant stupidity?!
Thank God they're at least shooting stuff and giving me eye candy, otherwise I'd turn it off in disgust.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
its on now first episode is availiable?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I like how they all are about to get lost on an island...
(Seriously, I literally started hitting the coffee table with my roommates pillow over and over again, screaming, until I was too tired to scream anymore. This episode began with reasonable hope and then became so stupid so fast...)
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Reading this, I think I'm glad that I decided to stop watching.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
well you have to admit that it is *somewhat* better than before.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It's a LOT better than before.
They aren't just standing around talking and plotting and talking about plotting and blah blah blah just shut up and do something!
They just totally reset the show, forgot most of the old alliances, and launched us into X-Men round 'em up mode in one episode. And not a moment too soon. If they weren't going to do what they were doing before correctly, they might as well try and do Marvel half heartedly. I can get something out of that.
Question though, why did Peter need to touch Mohinder to get his powers? It looked a lot more like when his father takes other people's powers than it did just copying them. I assume Mohinder still has his strength. Speaking of which, when did Mohinder get strength but lose the hideous insect scales and what not? I don't recall that.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
here I made heroes season 4 into a picture using my advanced graphic design skills.
You forgot to put the Lost island in the background.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Just add the smoke monster.
That was pretty bad. I think I'm done with this show.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I rather liked the new way they're taking the show. Not entirely consistent, but I knew going into it that this would have to be the case. If they give me a good season, I'll accept whatever rules they put in place starting now and go from there. It's nice that they're getting the heroes together, something I thought they should have done from the very first episode.
Lyrhawn - I agree with you entirely about the x-men thing.
There are only two qualms I had with last night's show, which was nicely action-packed and gave us plenty of fun movement and eye candy:
1. Hiro still doesn't have his powers back and I really, really want him to get his powers back.
2. Peter's power seems to work differently now. I'm not sure if he's stealing powers like his father did or what's going on. I did get the impression that he doesn't just have all the powers he used to have. I'm not sure what I think about that.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
The writers have never known what to do with Hiro and Peter. Their powers are so...powerful...that the only way they can keep them from taking over the world is to make them stupid, or make them lose their powers, or make them lose their memories.
I'm not surprised that they're not ready to give Hiro his powers back. And if Peter has to physically touch someone to get their powers, that weakens him a bit as well.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
They have to give Hiro his powers back or get rid of him.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
My guess is that if the person is in the middle of using his power, then Peter only needs to be around that person, otherwise Peter needs to physically touch the person to acquire the power. I get the sense too that Peter has gained an ability we haven't seen yet, based on the manner in which he responded to Nathan's questioning.
Regarding Mohinder, I remember him falling into the pool of formula that Peter had spilled out, which I'm guessing gave him the strength without the side effects.
I'm still not all that excited about the rest of this season, but I'm still interested enough in the characters to keep watching.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
How so Camus? I just saw that interaction as Peter being somewhat stupid instead of incredibly stupid.
(He'll make it over to normal levels of intelligence when he realizes that he can pretend to agree with someone when his life is at risk.)
Posted by paigereader (Member # 2274) on :
What did they do to claire's eyebrows and why are her eyes sometimes blue and sometimes brown? Is she wearing a wig sometimes? Why did peter go to his mom's house after claire said,"your mom and peter are planning something!"? Why does peter talk out of the side of his mouth? did he have a stroke? These are a few things that distracted me from the show last nite.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
Mohinder dosed himself with the "catalyzed" formula and was "healed" last season even before they dosed up that marine.
Peter still seems to suffer terminal stupidity. when they showed that seat with a person in it fall out the hole he made in the plane, I expected him to fly out after and save the person, not hang on to the net like he can't fly anymore.
Unless perhaps he now has to not only touch a person but also be in proximity to them to use the power anymore? That might explain his cryptic response to Nathan also. We'll see, I guess.
I agree that Hiro needs to have his power or to be off the show, even if it means he has to be a bit stupid/naive in order to not be completely overpowered. And I also was wondering how the FBI could go snatch a Japanese citizen from Japan -- especially one who is (admittedly low profile but still) CEO of a multi-billion yen company.
As much as I hate Sylar and think he should have died at the end of Season 1, I was actually glad to see him kicking FBI booty. I thought the story line with him finding his adoptive father was interesting too.
I can't help but wonder how Nathan got HRG in on his "round 'em up, rawhide!" scheme. And Claire now has good reason to hate both her fathers, though if the show stays true to form she'll still get all mushy for HRG anyway. She really needs some more hand-to-hand training too. As it is, she makes a big deal about "I'm gonna go do all this heroine-type butt-kicking stuff" and yet as soon as she gets into any kind of situation, she folds like a napkin. I liked that Noah at least started to show her some stuff in that one episode, but 1 lesson on swinging a club does not a fighter make, as we've seen.....
Matt also seemed to have terminal stupidity, since that 2nd drawing they looked at obviously showed him being shot through a window while looking at the pics.... and he just kept standing there until he got shot. Plus I hate that they're morphing his power into drawing the future now. Enough with that tired plot device to foreshadow already! Find another way!
I also wonder how thick clothing saved that FBI guy from Tracy's freezing power. Seemed like it not only didn't freeze him, but also his clothing warmed right up after the initial "oh noes I'm getting cold!" part. Wish I had a winter coat made out of that stuff, let me tell you.....
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Well, NBC has said that one of the original cast members is leaving at the end of the season but if Hiro leaves the show, I'm done.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
The more I think about it...the more I realize, any one of the original cast could leave the show and I wouldn't mind...except Hiro. If Hiro goes, I think they should just kill the show.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: How so Camus? I just saw that interaction as Peter being somewhat stupid instead of incredibly stupid.
Nathan: What can you do these days?
Peter: What's the last thing you saw me do?
Nathan: You flew.
<Peter leaves without responding>
So Nathan doesn't really get an answer, which I feel is setting the audience up for an ability that we must not be expecting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:I also wonder how thick clothing saved that FBI guy from Tracy's freezing power. Seemed like it not only didn't freeze him, but also his clothing warmed right up after the initial "oh noes I'm getting cold!" part. Wish I had a winter coat made out of that stuff, let me tell you.....
Magson, the clothing is (90% chance, not assured) going to turn out to be a power-negating substance. You can also bet dimes to dollars that they use "A Wizard Made It" as a justification, in effect, it's the product of a power-negating-substance-creating-hero already in custody.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:I also wonder how thick clothing saved that FBI guy from Tracy's freezing power. Seemed like it not only didn't freeze him, but also his clothing warmed right up after the initial "oh noes I'm getting cold!" part. Wish I had a winter coat made out of that stuff, let me tell you.....
Magson, the clothing is (90% chance, not assured) going to turn out to be a power-negating substance. You can also bet dimes to dollars that they use "A Wizard Made It" as a justification, in effect, it's the product of a power-negating-substance-creating-hero already in custody.
Wow, I had a much simpler answer for this. Nathan knew what her power was...I'm sure he clued them in. They were probably wearing some kind of heat-generating clothing. That was what I assumed, at any rate.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
They were awfully close to the ground at the end of the episode. And yet the pressure differential was still ripping them out the hole in the plane. Odd...
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
The thing about Peter's "new" power to take powers is that it seems he can keep only one power in him. He was kicking FBI ass after touching Mohinder, but after touching Tracy he got his ass kicked. Or was it just a convenient way to set up the episode's ending?!
Lisa, it was a veeeery pressurized plane.
I hope they're not simply gonna hit the ground, call it a landing and walk unscathed... That would be truly awful writing.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:I hope they're not simply gonna hit the ground, call it a landing and walk unscathed... That would be truly awful writing.
e.g.: Heroes
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
They were trying to make it all dramatic when Peter was hanging on to the... yellow thing... and it was breaking off. I mean, he can fly.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: They were trying to make it all dramatic when Peter was hanging on to the... yellow thing... and it was breaking off. I mean, he can fly.
And I can walk, but if I was caught in a tornado, I'd probably have difficulties with it.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: They were trying to make it all dramatic when Peter was hanging on to the... yellow thing... and it was breaking off. I mean, he can fly.
And I can walk, but if I was caught in a tornado, I'd probably have difficulties with it.
LISA JUST PWNED YOU!
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
How is that relevant? If he got sucked out he could just land safely on the ground. Or better yet, use his super strength and land the plane safely like superman.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
I too was amused at the pressure differential being maintained for so long with such a big hole. Oh, and it doesn't makes sense to me that Hiro would be on the plane with everyone else. They kidnap him in Japan, and then fly him to the United States so they can put him on a plane?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: How is that relevant? If he got sucked out he could just land safely on the ground. Or better yet, use his super strength and land the plane safely like superman.
I thought that when he was holding on to the netting too. Super strength, ability to fly, nigh invulnerable healing powers...what the heck is he waiting for? Give the guy some heat vision and a fortress of solitude and he's there.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
They were probably gathering all of the specials in one place and then transporting them en masse.
The idea that maybe peter can only borrow one power at a time is probable.
Ild assume that Japan being the USA's female dog for the last 50 years probably just said "sure go ahead" when asked.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was thinking that maybe Peter doesn't have the ability to fly right now. Maybe he only has one power at a time. We don't know how his powers work now.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: They were probably gathering all of the specials in one place and then transporting them en masse.
The idea that maybe peter can only borrow one power at a time is probable.
Ild assume that Japan being the USA's female dog for the last 50 years probably just said "sure go ahead" when asked.
No.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: How is that relevant? If he got sucked out he could just land safely on the ground. Or better yet, use his super strength and land the plane safely like superman.
psst: he probably can't fly anymore
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
Maybe it was just me, but I liked when peter seemed confused about freezing the plane after touching Tracy, as he had never met Tracy, and probably didn't even know Niki was dead. Seemed better than previous seasons when some characters knew things just because the audience knew them. Still a fun episode, now it is up to Peter to find Ando and Daphne, and possibly Sylar depending on if he is evil that week, to find and save the others.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
The series is going to end with the discovery of a genetic key (let's call it, for the sake of argument, Anton's Key), and the realization that you can have intelligence, or you can have super powers, but you can't have both.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: How is that relevant? If he got sucked out he could just land safely on the ground. Or better yet, use his super strength and land the plane safely like superman.
psst: he probably can't fly anymore
Wait, what? Why can't he fly anymore? I thought he absorbed that power. Now he has strength and freezing. Or is the new deal that he can only use one at a time?
How does that even make sense that his power should work differently now?
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth: How does that even make sense that his power should work differently now?
Why not? His father stole his powers. He got new powers when he injected himself with the formula. No one said that he would get the exact same set of powers.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: I too was amused at the pressure differential being maintained for so long with such a big hole.
I was just amused by the pressure differential existing at all considering that the plane they were on is one that isn't pressurized.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Yes, how convenient. He injects himself and instead of getting the same power he had before, he gets a nearly identical power. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well it wouldn't totally surprise me, it'd be about as silly as a lot of other things on this show.
BUT, at the same time, it would make it harder for Peter to get new powers, and thus perhaps make him a little bit less powerful, which might be good for the show.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I thought the formula taps into your genetic code in some way and expresses your code in your power. Peter's power was always that. If he lost it and injected himself it should express itself the same way - i didnt think that you could inject yourself with different serum flavors and get different powers.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It looked that way in the future when everyone had powers. Like you could buy a certain power if you wanted it.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
How did it look that way?
Wait, on second thought - Ando's powers in the future were different than they are now...right? He shot Hiro with like a red fire?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
No, it was still red lighting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The least positive indications for season 4: Trying Too Hard To Be Relevant, with the hardly revolutionary "keeping us safe from the terrorists, I mean, superpowers" plotline, that also appears to be headed on a (literal) crash-course into Lost territory. Someone mentioned that they might as well make next season a plot about whether or not heroes should be allowed to marry other heroes, with nathan on tv trying to pass a bill that keeps the institution of marriage safe by keeping it as a union only between two mundane humans. Bad cinematography, with too many cuts and closeups. Some characters have been reset into crude antagonistic pastiches.
Most positive indications: Lots. They dumped most of the extraneous chaff and soap-opera dynamics out of the airlock, along with Loeb. Nathan gets in a taxi with Mohinder and they have a fairly straightforward dialogue, present their points, and (gasp) agree to disagree and depart on civil terms. Watching it was surreal in the context of how dramabombish people had been acting in the prior seasons. Both Peter and Hiro have been stripped of the Plot Hole Induction superpower, which had been considered a necessary prerequisite for a new season that wouldn't suck. Sylar is looking like he's back to being a compelling character, after having shook off his Badass Decay (ref: TVTropes). Most importantly, they have hit the reset button and gone to a very simple, straightforward storyline.
Season 4 has the potential to be good. This potential is absolutely the last shot they have. Season 2 and season 3 sucked. If season 4 is not an improvement, the show is gone.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: No, it was still red lighting.
Does that mean that Ando wasn't betraying him in the future, but that he was pumping him up sidekick style?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: No, it was still red lighting.
Does that mean that Ando wasn't betraying him in the future, but that he was pumping him up sidekick style?
He's the ultimate side-kick, this is exactly what power I would have given him >:0
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
ARGH!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Is Daphne really dead? Will Peter learn how to control more than one power? Will Claire ever do what either of her fathers tell her?
Tune in next week...
Seriously, Daphne got offed pretty quick, but I wonder how long it'll take to bring her back, if they do. How long can Hiro remain powerless and useless to the show, or for that matter, alive? And while I like a less powerful Peter, a Peter who can only hold on to a power at a time makes him a lot less interesting. Does he have to relearn how to hold on to more powers or recall them?
And come on, does Sylar REALLY need a sidekick?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I know right?
WTH is with them not giving hiro his powers back in the first two episodes!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Honestly, I think you're nit picking. I thought the show was good. They needed to transition the show from what it was to what it is going to be from here on out. They didn't have time to give Hiro his powers back. I was just happy that they acknowledged that he needed them. That gave me a warm fuzzy that he would get them back sometime soon and would become useful again.
I don't know if Daphne is really dead but she doesn't seem to have died in such a way that coming back is likely. I'm thinking they really offed her. It's certainly a way to put a fire under Matt.
Oh, and I used to live near Russellville so that was pretty neat. Many of my in-laws still live there so I'll have to call and tell them. I don't think they shot the show there, though. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Oh yeah, and Syler -- yeah, I think he does need a sidekick. I think they're basically doing x-men and Syler is Magnito. He always has the best lines, doesn't he....it was something like, "I didn't kill you and for me, that's big."
I love that the groups are coming together so that we don't have to have our attention torn 12 different ways. This is where I think the show needed to have gone from the start.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I don't have a whole lot positive to say about the episode, but I do think that Peter's change makes him MORE interesting.
Previously the only question was: in what stupid way will Peter fail to use one of the many powers he has?
Now he can actually start acting intelligent, and his storyline can go in very unpredictable directions depending on who he touched most recently.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah the Sylar/Magneto thing occurred to me. Is that kid supposed to be the beginning of his Brotherhood of Evil, or whatever it's called?
And yeah, I AM nitpicking, but I'm still watching.
I will admit that the end of the episode was nice. It's nice to see the battle lines more clearly drawn. It just feels like a lot of the pieces are still missing. I'm forgetting some of the names, but it feels like there should be more people on their team. If they were going to do X-Men, why couldn't they get there faster?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Man, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking Magneto/Brotherhood tonight. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Yeah, the Magneto thing is kinda obvious, especially since his new sidekick reminds me of Pyro from the X-men movies, who also has heat related powers.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I started thinking Magneto last week. This week just really reinforced it. Now that they've cut out the shadowy Pinehearst/Primatech blah blah groups and really just narrowed it down to the Government vs. the Mutant Do Gooders, Sylar's role becomes in the mold is naturally Magneto's. All he lacks is a clear connection to Peter (assuming Peter is Professor X), though Peter has one with Nathan, which sort of keeps the spirit of the dynamic alive.
But Sylar isn't trying to fight for mutant rights. If anything, judging from the first kid, it's shaping up to be the Brotherhood of Disaffected Youth.
PS. I always thought of Meredith as Pyro...where as this kid uses microwaves to boil people's blood! Posted by Mocke (Member # 11963) on :
1. Peter can't fly anymore. At least, that's the impression given. Once he took Mohinder's power, he lost it. Then when he took Nikkiclones power, He lost the superstrength. Hence why there wasn't a guard beatdown on the plane.
2. You mean to tell me that A> Some American agency can just waltz into Japan and take a Japanese guy? And believing that, How did they get Hiro from Japan to North Africa in 2 hours. Whatever jet they use, I want.
3. The jet used to carry the hostages shouldn't be pressurized. That type of jet never is.
4. Is Peter retarded? What was his last scene with Mohinder in season 3? With that in mind, if you just happened to get in a taxi he was driving, wouldn't you get right back out? I would. I sure wouldn't sit there and have a friendly chat about how crazy it got. "Man, we were so wild. Remember that time I experimented on you? AWESOME!"
5. Is it secondary mutation time already? Is Claire going to get that superstrength she always dreamed of? Is nathan going to get to shoot lasers? Why not, since Parkman can suddenly draw the future.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Seriously, Daphne got offed pretty quick,
Inevitable offing is inevitable (her power's too good to allow her to be part of the new Underground Mutant Squad).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
What, they can have Rogue (without the flying), Professor X, useless human and power stealing guy, but the Flash upsets the balance?
Part of me thinks she isn't gone, but at the same time I almost imagine she'd have to be. Her death was the catalyst of way too many things, and having her survive (other than the fact that it'd be silly for so many vulnerable people to keep surviving gun fights) would undo everything they are doing right now. The Hunter (cripes...) wouldn't have had his little nutty when all those guys were killed by pissed off Parkman, and Parkman might not have joined them.
Besides, near as we can tell there are no more time travelers, not with Daphne dead and Hiro powerless for none.
I'm not sure if I'd happier with a Joss Whedon death of random violence or with her being killed as an actual plot device. I guess I go with the latter, only because it shows a glimmer of hope that the show actually HAS plot.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Rogue could punch the crap outta everyone and be super-immume to damage and fly and steal powers all at once. If there were a rogue, you would have to off her.
If Parkman had Xavier's powers, he could literally read every guard's head, including the commander's and nathan's, tell them to send messages back to washington saying 'everything's koo' then get the guards to drive them back to the suburbs, build the Parkman Institute for Higher Learning FOR him, then forget that they did it and where it is. So if there were a professor X, you would have to off him.
Etc.
Flash girl was not conductive to Needs of Plot. She would create too many problems. You would always be asking "why don't they just get She-Flash to do X" or "why doesn't flash girl just Y" and thus she must become Obviously Dead (by which I mean, 'looked so dead that she won't turn out to be alive for at least three episodes')
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well, watered down versions. You're no fun.
I'm okay with her being killed off though, for reasons stated above.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
the question I have is why a series that is alledgedly so bad got a 4th season when Jericho, the paragon of awesome got only 1 and a half?
Posted by Mocke (Member # 11963) on :
Blayne -
Depends on the Network I guess. See also: Firfly
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Blayne:
Are you really suggesting show length is a good indication of quality?
Have you even seen] some of these long running shows out there?
It has nothing to do with quality. It has to do with popularity. And popularity means dollar signs.
That's kinda how it works, because these people aren't exactly making television for their health, you see.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: the question I have is why a series that is alledgedly so bad got a 4th season when Jericho, the paragon of awesome got only 1 and a half?
Heroes' season one averaged about 14m in nielsen ratings. By the time the season 3 arc was concluding, viewership was heading down towards 7m.
The series was not just 'allegedly' bad. It was bad, and the catastrophic ratings freefall was emblematic of that fact. Nerds can be pretty loyal to crap like Heroes. When you are losing 1 in 2 nerds from your nerd show and your season premiers advertised during the super bowl finish third in the timeslot with a series that is getting so god-awfully insipid that you cannot expand the market beyond nerds, you are beyond being in trouble. The thing that has saved Heroes is that its ratings crash synced with an overall NBC ratings crash, lending them towards a more conservative (desperate) attempt at maintaining something of a unique network identity. Had season 3 not coincided with a ratings freefall for NBC in general, Heroes would have been lost, like nerd tears in nerd rain </roybatty>
It remains on the thinnest of thin ice. Profitability concerns likely dictate that heroes' fate is dependent on ratings recovery.
In descending order of probability, here are the scenarios for Heroes.
1. Continues to suck, is canceled.
2. Improves storyline, cannot sufficiently recover viewership due to damage to franchise image, is canceled.
3. Improves storyline, begins sufficiently recovering viewership, but profitability concerns get Heroes axed on the rebound.
4. Improves storyline, survives.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth:
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: No, it was still red lighting.
Does that mean that Ando wasn't betraying him in the future, but that he was pumping him up sidekick style?
That's what it seems like.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I'm ok with Daphne dying. Actually, I think it was great. It made me a little sad, which must have meant they got me to care about her just a little bit. Plotwise, it served a purpose. It wasn't random or meaningless. I think the last time a character died and I was saddened by it was Mohinder's neighbor in the first season -- the girl who could control people? (I can't remember her name, possibly because she used 2 of them.)
re: inconsistencies from season 3 -- I think the writers are doing their best to forget that season 3 and, to a lesser extent, season 2, existed. Since I am attempting to do the same thing, I am rather enjoying season 4.
Seriously, though. What we have here is a good idea that went bad. We can either lament the fact that they are not acknowledging the corners they wrote themselves into or try to give them one last chance. And since I'm still watching, I figure I may as well go the one last chance route. There's no point in watching otherwise.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Although I have a sinking feeling it won't last, I actually liked this episode a lot. I only have one major qualm, which is that it's kinda stupid for Nathan and Bennet to STILL be flipflopping between good and bad guys. I'd like to think that'll be answered satisfactorily, but I doubt it, and am willing to forget all the waffling they've done in past seasons in hopes that the rest of Season 4 will have actual character development.
Sylar continues to be my favorite character. He really needed a companion to let his character grow. Last season they bounced him around so many companions (Mama and Papa Petrelli, Peter and Elle, none of whom had good chemisty with him). I like the new guy, and I loved the "epic-ized" Sylar theme song at the end with the two of them.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
"You're going to torture me in front of them?"
"No. I'm going to torture them in front of you."
I knew exactly what he was going to say, but it was still awesome. It's so great to see Sylar back to his normal driven, ruthless self.
The hero powow after Daphne's death felt forced (the dialogue! Ouch!), but it moved the show in a direction I liked, so I was willing to accept it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I didn't actually think the dialogue was that bad. Some of that stuff just has to be said, if for no other reason than to elicit an objection that can be dealt with.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Oh, I agree that the powow needed to happen, I just thought it could have been done with less cheesy dialogue.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
"...we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds,..."
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Heroes would be ten times better if Churchill had powers and joined up with the gang.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
They already have Hitler, so indeed, why not?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd say to add FDR too, but just one of his speeches would take up the whole episode. He'd make a good Professor X though.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I only have one major qualm, which is that it's kinda stupid for Nathan and Bennet to STILL be flipflopping between good and bad guys.
I don't think Bennett has ever flipped. I think his motivation has always been to protect his family, and if that means hurting other people to do it, he does it. It's just a very ugly stance to take when what he's doing is rounding harmless people up to imprison them for life.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by swbarnes2:
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I only have one major qualm, which is that it's kinda stupid for Nathan and Bennet to STILL be flipflopping between good and bad guys.
I don't think Bennett has ever flipped. I think his motivation has always been to protect his family, and if that means hurting other people to do it, he does it. It's just a very ugly stance to take when what he's doing is rounding harmless people up to imprison them for life.
I also do not think his motivations have changed much. He's really always been into 2 things: controlling people with powers and protecting his family. Last season he sided with Peter et al because Arthur Patrelli wanted to give powers to everyone and that would be a serious problem with most of his motivations. That done, he's back to helping to control people with powers.
Notice, though, that he protected Peter twice in last night's episode. Apparently he has some residual compassion for the person he fought side by side with last season. Plus, Claire loves him so that's also consistent.
I actually think Bennett is one of the least flip-floppy characters on the show.
Syler only works for me if I pretend season 3 didn't happen for him. The thing with Elle was absolutely awful. I like him as a bad guy but he really needs to get control of himself at least enough that he can interact with other people from time to time. That's why I kind of liked that he got a side kick. I just hope he doesn't go the way of Elle.
Nathan has been a bit flip-floppy, although once again if I ignore season 3 it's better. His motivations then made no sense. Between season 1, 2, and now he was clearly a power-hungry man in denial about his own powers, finally had to face the truth, and is now back in denial about himself but willing to sacrifice everyone around him, including his brother, for the sake of his own power trip.
Mohinder makes no sense. I kind of hope he's the one leaving the show.
The second worst flip-flopper, IMO, is Peter. He's always been generally heroic but he strikes me as the most plot-driven character.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I actually think Bennett is one of the least flip-floppy characters on the show.
That's because his motives have never changed.
Of all the characters on the show, Bennett and Hiro have been the most consistent. Regardless of who they've been affiliated with at various times, or what they've been doing, it's always flowed from the same basic set of principles. Bennett has done a lot of weird out of left field things, but it all falls under the umbrella of protecting his family. When given the chance to join Nathan's mutant hunters, he joined up because he knew it was his best chance to protect Claire.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Sylar continues to be my favorite character. He really needed a companion to let his character grow. Last season they bounced him around so many companions (Mama and Papa Petrelli, Peter and Elle, none of whom had good chemisty with him). I like the new guy, and I loved the "epic-ized" Sylar theme song at the end with the two of them.
Actually they should just go with my idea, where sylar gains a superpower that lets him transcend shows. He teleports to Dexter, offs him, and takes over the show.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Dexter would destroy Sylar.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
He'd certainly give him a run for his money. In particular because Dexter would figure out what Sylar is before Sylar figures out who Dexter really is. Sylar's a lot more blatant about the "I'm a psycopath" thing.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Dexter would destroy Sylar.
"Lie detection" as a power = gg no re
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Oh man, I forgot about that.
Sadness...
Still, I'd pay to see a Sylar/Dexter crossover.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Sylar's current suite of powers actually makes him more interesting than he was prior to shanti exposure. A lot of chaff was done away with and now he's got just the right amount of powers for supreme badassery.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Waaaaaait a a second!!!!
If Ando ENHANCES powers then maybe Hiro will NEVER get his powers back.
A Hunch: Ando + current Hiro = Hiro's powers! It'd be a cool way of limiting Hiro and having them work together as a team!
However, I still want Hiro to get his powers back...
Whaddaya think?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Armoth:
Whaddaya think?
Wonder Twin powers, activate!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was under the impression that Sylar had lost all his powers except for telekinesis. Did I miss something? Or did they just change the rules again?
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I thought the Luke/Pyro cloning was even more obvious this week than last.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
awwwwwwwww.....
LUKE WAS SO PWNED!!!!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Ooooo loved the ending.
Could it be...I'm actually liking the turn that this is taking? Weird.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I loved the whole "For 2 and a half years we have blah blah blah...."
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Syler went on a power-nabbing spree at the end of last season.
As for this episode...the Hiro/Ando subplot was BAD. How did they get to India? Did they just hop on a plane? Because those guys can find Syler in a random camera shot on the interstate but can't find Hiro when he boards an airplane! Not to mention that the whole thing was a stupid self-fulfilling prophecy that had no relevance and only served to separate the newly formed resistance group.
But other than that, yeah, it was a good episode.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I was under the impression that Sylar had lost all his powers except for telekinesis. Did I miss something? Or did they just change the rules again?
When he got a sample of claires blood he got back all of them.
Which begs the question, why did he need to disguise as a soldier when he could have illusion of being one?
Awesome episode!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I remember Sylar's power nabbing spree, but I thought that the eclipse took his powers away and only left him with TK just like the Shanti virus did.
And nowhere have I seen anything about Claire helping him get all his powers back.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
it was a long time ago, he had to steal a vial of her blood remember? My memory is like 20/20 with tv shows.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
d'oh I slept through heroes.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I remember Sylar's power nabbing spree, but I thought that the eclipse took his powers away and only left him with TK just like the Shanti virus did.
And nowhere have I seen anything about Claire helping him get all his powers back.
The eclipse took away ALL powers, but only temporarily.
I'm not sure that he ever got back all the powers that he once had before the Shanti virus, like the illusions or the super hearing and such. I don't recall him ever losing Claire's power since he cut her open and sampled her brain.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The only (absorbed) power that Sylar maintained from before he contracted the Shanti virus was Telekinesis.
The rest were lost, but Sylar had used telekinesis so often that it had become innate. He may express a future recovery of powers he has lost, which would be especially troubling in the case of Enhanced Memory.
[ February 17, 2009, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I remember Sylar's power nabbing spree, but I thought that the eclipse took his powers away and only left him with TK just like the Shanti virus did.
And nowhere have I seen anything about Claire helping him get all his powers back.
I got the impression that after the eclipse, he could still do everything he could before the eclipse. The only time he got reset was between seasons 1 and 2, as far as I know.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I remember Sylar's power nabbing spree, but I thought that the eclipse took his powers away and only left him with TK just like the Shanti virus did.
And nowhere have I seen anything about Claire helping him get all his powers back.
The eclipse took away ALL powers, but only temporarily.
I'm not sure that he ever got back all the powers that he once had before the Shanti virus, like the illusions or the super hearing and such. I don't recall him ever losing Claire's power since he cut her open and sampled her brain.
I don't think that he ever got illusions because he had the shanti virus when he tried to.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The Hiro/Ando plot was a bit dumb, but otherwise I thought this episode was pretty good.
The one thing that aggravated me was the scene with Claire in the comic shop. As written, Noah Bennet is an idiot (and Claire is also an idiot), but all it would have taken was moving Claire and the new kid to the other fricken corner of the store instead of having a conversation right next to her dad. Jeez.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
there used to be tons of comments after an episode of heroes: bad omen.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I stopped watching. I'm guessing so did a bunch of other people.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I stopped a while ago too.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
This last episode is evidence that if loeb, et al had stayed on the show, the series would have been back to its old junky ways in three eps tops. They're still running through the episodes he features his name on, and the ando/hiro plotline was dumber than anything that has any right being on this show. Characters are already back to doing completely retarded things for the sake of keeping a contrived plotline on course. I would stop watching immediately were I not aware that loeb is gone and they brought back Fuller.
Sylar's plotline is a saving grace though. And they DO seem to be taking it in a different direction. The ending was funny.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
When are we done with his episode? I Mean, the Hiro/Ando thing was PAINFUL. And I usually love Hiro and ANdo. But it made no sense...on any level. How did they get to India? (Was nobody watching the airports?) Who was this random person and why did we care? I hate self-fulfilling prophecies, too, which seems to have been a big part of last season. Argh! Do they not have anyone willing to tell them when something sucks?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
He IS the CEO of a multi billion $ company. He probably flew via private jet and the gov't is simply keeping it under wraps.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
You're also forgetting that Peter can fly at the moment and that Ando can possibly enhance that. Although, I don't know how Peter and Ando's powers would work when used together. Would Ando enhance Peter's currently borrowed power or would Ando enhance Peter's absorption power.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Maybe Peter can Travel FTL?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Do they not have anyone willing to tell them when something sucks?
Well, Loeb and Alexander did get fired, so I guess in a way they eventually got around to doing that.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by manji: You're also forgetting that Peter can fly at the moment and that Ando can possibly enhance that. Although, I don't know how Peter and Ando's powers would work when used together. Would Ando enhance Peter's currently borrowed power or would Ando enhance Peter's absorption power.
Heh. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if Peter and Ando both amplified someone's powers at the same time. Imagine the devastation Parkman could wreak if he had that kind of power, or Mohinder for that matter, though I imagine it would be hard to have the two of them attached to him while he goes Hulk on people. I imagine using it on Sylar's electricity power or his TK ability would be immensely powerful, but I don't see that happening.
I wonder though, if Peter gets full control of his powers back, could he use Ando's boost power to amplify the effects of all his other abilities? Peter 2.0 could be really powerful.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I think a more powerful Peter is the last thing they need.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
And Peter 1.0 wasn't already immensely powerful?
I'd think that a "power enhanced" Peter 2.0 wouldn't be much of a difference, as Peter's only limiting factor is his inability to use his abilities intelligently.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I really liked this episode.
But no Hiro or Sylar this episode so I'm sad.
But still a good episode, my prediction Mohinder does another Heel-Face-Turn and joins Nathan if given the chance to have freedom and a non morally grey role (as a M.D)
HRG's doings-goings made sense and predicted that his "well I didnt agree with you before but this near death experience really opened by eyes!" bit made me believe he was lying and playing at a bigger game, proven with Mamma petrelli.
I think what was really good about this episode is when they only focused on maybe 2 groups at most, and both groups interacted with each other to boot. So we got like 6 episodes of Heroes Season 1 or 2 in like 10 minutes!
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I haven't watched since Sylar killed Elle, but the commercials promised me Bennet galore, so I watched last night.
It was ok, but it doesn't really inspire me to start watching again.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
That episode was stupid.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I did not think the episode was all that good. It was ok, but there wasn't anything in Bennett's head that we didn't already basically know. He's consistent. Peter's actions were just stupid. Why did he go after the bald guy? Going to the storage locker almost made sense but holding a gun to a guy's head for no good reason? Like anyone thought he would pull that trigger.
As a matter of fact, this was the episode that made me realize that no changes are really coming to heroes. It's still the same show...good setup and poor follow-through.
I also missed Hiro. But then again, I miss Hiro with ass-kicking power. I thought they were going to quickly correct that mistake from last season and put him back in the game but I guess not. They continue to be afraid to deal with truly powerful powers and so deal with them through stupid plot tricks and character stupidity.
That said, I do like the episodes where they focus on a single plot and only one or two groups or characters. As a matter of fact, I thought that was what this war would enable them to do more often and I Hope it does...if they can draw battle lines and get these groups together then it should be easier to do than if everyone has his or her own agenda.
Oh yeah, and how stupid was Nathan flying off to rescue Peter? Nobody's going to notice that he got to that apartment faster than was humanly possible? He is so going to get caught on his own spear. Serves him right, of course.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Do you think its common knowledge that Mama Petrelli and Papa Petrelli had powers? Or more to the point, why has no one thought "Nathan's daughter has a power, Nathan's brother has a power, Nathan's mom has a power, and Nathan's dad had a power .... I wonder if Nathan has a power?" Even if the mom and dad weren't known, you would think daughter and brother would at least cause some questioning. Now coupled with his stupid flying to Peters rescue ...ugh.
I actually really disliked last nights episode. It felt exactly like the old crappy ones. I was really really happy with the way the show was going but now I'm not sure. My whole complaint was that they didn't seem to know how to do anything other than shuffle things up, give someone a painting the future power, and have him paint a nuclear explosion. I mean, seriously! It's been done! Now Hiro is going to get his power back and jump forward to a destroyed DC.
I'll tell you, even though the show didn't work as well when Peter and Hiro were really powerful, the thought of them being such future b--a--'s was enjoyable. Peter can stay weak, but Hiro needs his power back.
Just wondering, but what do people think about the way in which the episodes are tied to each other? For instance, would it have been better for 2 weeks ago to not have ended with HRG being drugged but instead save than until this past week and have it all be contained in one? I don't know why I feel like that would make it better. I'm kind of feverish right now so I'm probably not making sense. But its just a feeling I have.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
quote:They continue to be afraid to deal with truly powerful powers and so deal with them through stupid plot tricks and character stupidity.
If an intelligent character actually had Hiro's power, there could be no show. Same with Peter ver. 1.0.
Intelligent use of complete control over time and space would mean there could be no plot - because Hiro could be in all places at all times.
Sylar's terrorizing people? Stop time, teleport to NASA for a space suit, teleport back, teleport him to the moon, teleport back, and problem is solved. No more Sylar.
Papa Petrelli is being menacing? See above.
Someone's going to get shot? Stop time, move said person, take gun from shooter, and the problem is solved.
There is virtually no problem that cannot be solved by stopping time and teleportation.... but even if there were, the way they have set up the rules in the Heroes universe allows you to go back in time to correct your foolish mistake and not cause a paradox.
Hiro's power requires one of two things for any sort of plot development to happen: a) character stupidity, and b) stupid plot tricks.
Peter only compounded the problem. He had Hiro's power in addition to healing, mind-reading, painting the future, strength, and invisibility. Forget about all the other silly bells and whistles... those five, in addition to Hiro's abilities, make a character immensely overbalancing to any sort of plot.
It's like introducing an elder dragon into a level four D&D party... Ragnar the young and exhuberant human ranger, Gomek the blacksmith's son turned dwarf fighter, Ilandra the elven wizard's apprentice.... and Yssreth the Bringer of Flames, Protector of the Celestial Planes, High Champion of the Court of Elder Dragons.
Hiro and Peter were incredibly overbalancing... as was Papa Petrelli.
They've found a way to limit Peter, which is good. Even if they bump him up to being able to remember different powers, but only being able to use one at a time, it's an improvement.
With Hiro, there are also ways to limit him. Maybe he can only stop time, but not teleport... or vice versa. Or he can't stop time completely, only slow it. Moving backward or forward through time causes him to lose consciousness for a period. Or he can only teleport himself, not others.
A fully functioning Hiro intelligently using his powers would cripple the show entirely... though, I wouldn't mind a plot line wherein:
- Hiro went back in time - He changes enough to make Seasons 2-3 never have happened - This "future Hiro" then is killed in the past - The next show starts in the current time, with an entirely different plot, where all manner of things can be changed and explained away as events having taken place off screen (power modification, etc)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The scene with Bennett and Parkman was giving me Londor and G'Kar vibes.
The only thing missing was Kosh. Hell, might have been a better scene if there HAD been a Kosh like person to tell Parkman to cool it.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
On top of what's already been mentioned was anyone else really bugged by the lack of continuity with Mohinder's backstory from the last season?
"I'm a scientist, you're a cop and you're a nurse... we didn't do anything wrong..." oh wait, except when you turned into a serial killer kidnapping people and performing strange experiments on them...
but then later on in the episode they seem to remember that last season Mohinder turned into a bad-guy... Parkman and Peter are good examples of the "we're innocent until you force us to be evil." while Mohinder is almost the ultimate example of why all the bad guys have had a point (that powers are dangerous).
Also, the whole "did you hear me?! your brother is behind this all!" 'revelation?' who didn't see Nathan wandering around and seemingly being in charge of things... it's like saying "did you hear me?! Hitler was bad!"
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I think most people hate reset buttons more then dumb plot unless it was really really well done.
Now, we still don't know exactly if the future has been significantly changed, it still looks like its following the Season 2 (or 3?) plot where Future Peter was a terrorist maybe with minor differences.
Time CAN be changed but appears to be extremely difficult to do so.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
LOL
I did notice those things, actually. There were just so many bad things! I really hope Mohinder goes away. They do seem to have forgotten about his killing and eating people spree.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The scene with Bennett and Parkman was giving me Londor and G'Kar vibes.
The only thing missing was Kosh. Hell, might have been a better scene if there HAD been a Kosh like person to tell Parkman to cool it.
Lando. But yes. I miss G'Kar...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Blayne, I agree about the reset button problem... but it's starting to get to the point where I'm begging for one.
Again, though, for people being dumb with their powers...
Parkman. This guy can read people's minds, take control of people's minds to get them to do things, and even create illustions in people's minds so that they experience a world that's only in their mind....
YET, when a bunch of guys with guns are closing in on his motel room, what does he do? Draws a handgun.
Seriously?
In the spur of the moment by the downed plane, he took control of a shooter by instinct and dropped multiple assailants. With time to plan, his best option... is a handgun. He could have, perhaps...
- made the hunters believe the room was empty - made one hunter believe he saw them escaping - made one hunter turn on the others
Mohinder. Apparently the smartest of them all... engages in hand-to-hand combat a group of heavily armed hunters with stun dart rifles (which took him down previously).
I don't know... maybe knock a hole out through the other side of the hotel room, buying some time by piling all the furniture in front of the door? Or knocking a hole into an adjacent room, or the floor, etc? What did he hope to accomplish?
Peter. What did he expect to accomplish by flying to the head guy's place? To threaten him with a gun? Really? Maybe gather information on who they might be after next, or find some incriminating evidence that can be leaked to the press, or even steal his computer so that you can go find Micah or someone to find out more about what's going on.
Instead, the three stooges all managed to go the route of brute force. Handgun, handgun, hand-to-hand combat. Oy.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The scene with Bennett and Parkman was giving me Londor and G'Kar vibes.
The only thing missing was Kosh. Hell, might have been a better scene if there HAD been a Kosh like person to tell Parkman to cool it.
Lando. But yes. I miss G'Kar...
My bad, Londo, I can't believe I added an r on there.
FC -
I think what you wanted Parkman to do was this:
Hunters enter room with weapons drawn.
Parkman waves his hand and says, "these aren't the mutants you're looking for."
Hunters look at each other quizzically and the lead Hunter looks at the rest and says, "these aren't the mutants we're looking for."
....
I think when pissed, a lot of them can do things by instinct that they can't do when stressed and actively trying. And actually despite the handgun to the boss Hunter's head thing, I thought Peter actually used his weapons fairly smartly. The flashbang and grabbing Parkman was impressively executed. Keeping the mind reader for info gathering purposes is essential if they are actually going to have any hope at success. Killing the Hunter guy however probably would have helped more than it hurt. His bosses were already convinced by Tracy that the danger exists. Killing the most radical among them would give Nathan a freer hand to try less volatile methods.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Killing the Hunter guy however probably would have helped more than it hurt. His bosses were already convinced by Tracy that the danger exists. Killing the most radical among them would give Nathan a freer hand to try less volatile methods.
But this is television. Killing the big-bad early just means that someone worse will replace him.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
LOL. "Set your tasers on stun."
Whatever!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Did anyone else think it was kind of silly when that Hunter guy suggested that if Peter killed him, he'd prove that the abilities were dangerous? I actually told the TV, "Yeah, because only someone with special abilities can use a gun!"
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I was having flashbacks of Star Wars: can't kill them, can't live with them. Of course when the bad guys do the killings for the good guys it's a "redeeming" quality; when the good guys kill it's their "damnation". Solution: kill two at a time?!
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I don't buy the "they can do things by instinct, but not by trying" thing. What Parkman did in the spur of the moment by taking control of a person's mind, and then having that person act in violence against their own companions, is not a reflex... because he had never done it before.
The only way for it to have been a "reflex" or "instinct" or whatever would be some sort of Geena Davis/Long Kiss Goodnight concept where he was reverting back to doing something he was good at in the past.
The guy is borderline Charles Xavier... and in times of stress, he turns to a handgun. Somehow, if people were storming Professor X's mansion, I don't think he'd be fumbling in his drawer for a pistol.
And while Peter may have used the weapons intelligently, his general actions and decision making were forced by plot decisions, rather than a plot being built by characters actually making intelligent decisions.
They needed Peter out long enough to get Parkman/Mohinder in trouble, then back in time to save Parkman and be sure that Mohinder was captured. To do that, you have to have Parkman/Mohinder act unintelligently, and have Peter rashly rush off to a meaningless confrontation with no plan of action.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
[ February 27, 2009, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: FlyingCow ]
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Man this show has fallen so hard. When Heroes gets the ax will any miss it?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Honestly, apart from the Hiro story I like Volume 4 just fine so far.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I will miss it, I want my Hirofix.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I won't be that upset when Heroes gets the axe. It deserves it. But I will miss even having a show to watch. I'm just not into that many shows. Right now I have 2 .... sort of 3 but I choose to wait until the end of the season to watch Lost and then watch them all back to back.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Honestly, there's a whole bunch of decent-to-good shows out there right now. That's one thing I agree with OSC on. Right now I'm watching:
Heroes Chuck House Scrubs Lost Life on Mars Life Lie to Me (Wednesday is evidently "Shows that begin with L day") Bones Ugly Betty Terminator Doll House
Of those, Heroes is the lowest quality IMO (Chuck's about the same, but isn't trying to be anything better than it is so I rank it higher).
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: Man this show has fallen so hard. When Heroes gets the ax will any miss it?
The thing I have with heroes is that it is a show that definitely had potential to really go somewhere and be a fixture.
I wanted that.
More importantly, Heroes is something that could convince network tv to do nerd stuff I really like, like firefly. And if it fails, a lot of that appeal vanishes as well. It's running as a test case for the modern supaheero drama.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Honestly, there's a whole bunch of decent-to-good shows out there right now. That's one thing I agree with OSC on. Right now I'm watching:
Heroes Chuck House Scrubs Lost Life on Mars Life Lie to Me (Wednesday is evidently "Shows that begin with L day") Bones Ugly Betty Terminator Doll House
Of those, Heroes is the lowest quality IMO (Chuck's about the same, but isn't trying to be anything better than it is so I rank it higher).
I'm sure there are good shows on, but I like familiar favorites and I'm nearly out of those. I think that's why I got into Heroes in the first place. It isn't exactly a new idea and as strange as this may sound, I wanted the familiar and comfortable cliche.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: Man this show has fallen so hard. When Heroes gets the ax will any miss it?
The thing I have with heroes is that it is a show that definitely had potential to really go somewhere and be a fixture.
I wanted that.
More importantly, Heroes is something that could convince network tv to do nerd stuff I really like, like firefly. And if it fails, a lot of that appeal vanishes as well. It's running as a test case for the modern supaheero drama.
That's what makes this show so frustrating to me. I keep waiting for Hiro to evolve into future Hiro but all I get is stupid plot devices. Hiro used to be my favorite character, I can't stand him now.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I will miss it, I want my Hirofix.
EXACTLY
Hi wowbagger Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Another thing that is killin' heroes is the whole graphic novel tie-ins thing. No, Mr. Kring. I do not read your dumb online comic story tie-ins, and neither do the majority of the viewers.
Do you remember the second matrix movie? Do you remember the dumb kid who showed up out of nowhere that we were supposed to know if we had watched the Animatrix? Do you remember how everyone was confused about him and how this was a dumb idea? The show should not have required reading in order for new characters to not seem shoehorned in or to have them vanish and appear spontaneously and leave us with a sense of extracurricular fatigue.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Which character are your referring to here? (In Heroes). Also, I actually did see Animatrix but I don't know which kid you're talking about.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
LYLE IS REBEL?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!!?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Wait I thought they said he could only hold 1 power.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Nathan saved him.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Wait, what? I didn't see anything confirming that.
I was assuming it was the internet israeli chick from Season 1, actually. (Who, as we of course learned in the graphic novel tie-in, ended up becoming the internet or something...)
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I thought this episode was a huge improvement over the last few ones. It was really exciting to see Peter regain his powers, but oh well. I hope he gets the ability to hold onto a few at once.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Dude, Micah's totally Rebel. Or so I'd like to think...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I thought it was the internet chick. But Micah would make a lot of sense too. I don't even remember where things were left with him, but I'm surprised Nathan's guys didn't pick him up first.
A technopath is more dangerous to them right now than a telepath.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was thinking Micah. I kind of hope it is. I didn't like his mom, but I liked him.
The only thing wrong with last night's episode was that Hiro wasn't in it. I want Hiro back -- WITH powers! Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I want Hiro back WITH adequate character development, powers or not.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Hiro came back! And he's in the 70's!
Best 30 seconds of the show.
Oh, and Nathan so had it coming.
I actually rather enjoyed tonight's show.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Not a bad episode. If Sylar gets shapeshifting, though, and becomes Nathan, I will be sooo pissed off.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Matt Parkman's ex-wife has a child that would be about that age. Did we ever resolve who the father was for sure?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Yeah, I guess it's probably Matt's baby, now that I think about it, but I was hoping...I know rumor has it that they're trying to phase out time travel and therefore Hiro is unlikely to get his power back, at least exactly the way it was. But it kind of ticks me off that their inability to write is screwing up the coolest character on the show. Time travel itself isn't the problem -- it's how they use it.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The father was that guy she was sleeping with in Season 1. Was that the same actress as his wife, though?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
No.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Looked like the same actress as his wife, to me.
I also thought this was the best episode in a while... though, my standards for "good Heroes episode" may just be incredibly low at this point.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Double checked, IMDB says no.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
It wasn't his wife, it was a hired nanny. She was running off because she quit.
As for whose baby it was...there was a conflict on that one. In the season 1 episode in which Hiro went into the future. Matt Parkman's baby was hiw own. Early in season 2, Matt said it was the other guy's baby. I always thought that was odd. It's possible that Matt thinks it's the other guy's baby but it's really his.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
IIRC Matt heard his wife's thoughts and she believed it was not Matt's baby, but I remember that later it was revealed that it was, in fact, Matt's baby.
So... How was babby formed? (Sorry)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
ahahahahaha.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Sorry... wasn't talking about in the show. Was talking about the preview for next week. *That* did appear to be the same actress as Parkman's wife. The nanny/babsitter chick was way too young.
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
I was thinking his wife told him the baby wasn't his and left him, but he read her thoughts and knew she at least believed it was his, but he went anyway.
I suppose her telling him that might have been her wanting to leave him, and not have the child keep Matt from going. So maybe he just accepted that and left, though that episode was quite a while ago so I could have it a bit mixed.
Still when the nanny handed the baby over to the first person to walk through the door assuming they were from the service and rushed out, I couldn't help thinking of the Incredibles. I wonder if little Matt junior bursts into flames.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
probly can read minds/project thoughts in a disturbing way, hes still clothed, so doesnt probly burst into flames.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
New episode of Heroes, its quite different.
link Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Is that just a standalone or do they intend to more? It'd be neat if they did follow through with the ending teaser and add powers. I think it'd be pretty doable if they stuck to mind reading, teleportation and other powers that don't require much (any) special effects.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Alright Micah! Already this episode is better than most of this season, and we're only halfway through. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: Dude, Micah's totally Rebel. Or so I'd like to think...
Called it.
Good guess.
eta: there's no way that Micah could have known that Mini Matt could turn Hiro's power back on. And for that matter, it makes no sense that the baby even could turn his power back on. But I don't care, it's nice that he has it back.
Masi Oka has said in interviews that he won't get time travel back, but I was still hoping he'd be able to teleport and freeze time. Maybe he just has to relearn how to do it? He used to be able to unfreeze people on command too.
eta2: And I'm going to assume that Traci isn't dead.
[ March 23, 2009, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
After the Traci thing, I was just thinking "geez, can no one ever die on this show?" but then the episode ended. Jerks. Way to make me happy when she came back and then grumpy again when they apparently killed her off a second time.
Now, once again, my two favourite blondes are gone from the show. Alas, Elle and Daphne, I didn't get to know you nearly as well as I would have liked. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
HIRO IS BACK!!!!!
All right, not quite as good as before, but still, freezing time is a pretty powerful thing to be able to do. Hopefully he gets teleport back as well. I wouldn't miss time travel, though.
As for it making sense that "baby touch and go" (loved the name) could restart Hiro's pwoers...why not? Other characters can copy and remove powers? Why couldn't one give them back? He turns things on. Hiro was off and now he's on. I'll go with it. Although I was kind of thinking Ando's power would have been able to give his back. I didn't like seeing it used as a weapon. I saw Ando's power more as something that could strengthen and by counter effect, minimize powers. Ah well.
But basically, one of the best episodes of Heroes so far. Tracy is dead (or so I choose to think for at least a little while). I was hoping either she or Mohinder would be the character that would be leaving this season.
I knew Micah was rebel. Was the only thing that made sense. As for how he knew about baby Matt...well, I don't know if he knew that he could give Hiro his powers back, but his power ties directly into information since he can hack into any computer system. So I'll buy it.
The only groan moment was Daphne. Why'd they bring her back just to kill her again? Sigh...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
To give Matt closure.
And I don't think Traci is dead. Didn't her shattered ice face wink? No, I think that she transcended to a higher level of control over her powers, and she'll reform somewhere.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I knew Micah was rebel. Was the only thing that made sense.
I thought Rebel would be Hana Gittleman (the Internet chick) until I saw the name of the actor who plays Micah at the beginning of the episode.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: To give Matt closure.
And I don't think Traci is dead. Didn't her shattered ice face wink? No, I think that she transcended to a higher level of control over her powers, and she'll reform somewhere.
It's either that, or she'll die as soon as she thaws out, seeing as how she's now in many little pieces. I'd like them to kill her off, but you're probably right about her reforming.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Avatar300:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: To give Matt closure.
And I don't think Traci is dead. Didn't her shattered ice face wink? No, I think that she transcended to a higher level of control over her powers, and she'll reform somewhere.
It's either that, or she'll die as soon as she thaws out, seeing as how she's now in many little pieces. I'd like them to kill her off, but you're probably right about her reforming.
I know, I know...the show can't properly kill anyone off, least of all those who deserve it, but could I please have my delusions until next week? Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:And for that matter, it makes no sense that the baby even could turn his power back on.
I think "baby touch'n go" is a cute bit of misdirection, and typical of the old Hiro.
quote:Although I was kind of thinking Ando's power would have been able to give his back. I didn't like seeing it used as a weapon.
Didn't Ando discharge his power in a rather massive and fairly uncontrolled way just before Hiro got his power back?
I'm also wondering if the guy Ando hit might have powers now, and if Ando could give powers to Danko. Wait, Magneto already did that.
quote:As for how he knew about baby Matt...
Straightforward: Micah knew the government bad guys were planning on taking baby Matt into custody because he was monitoring them.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
WOOT!
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
...Daphne died? Huh?
In other news... Jesus, Michah's voice is deep now.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I wasn't clear what happened to Daphne in the end. It was clear she was still in serious condition in the hospital, but I didn't get the impression she was dead.
I like that Micah is old enough to be doing hero stuff on his own. The fact that he's grown and his voice has dropped adds believability to the character as "rebel"
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: In other news... Jesus, Michah's voice is deep now.
THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:I wasn't clear what happened to Daphne in the end. It was clear she was still in serious condition in the hospital, but I didn't get the impression she was dead.
There were zeros on all the monitors. It was pretty clear to me.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I couldn't believe Micah's voice, either! He's all grown up. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I think the biggest weakness of this show is that the writers failed from the start to establish clear limits about how powers can be used. As a result they ended up making too many characters who were too powerful. They are now trying to scale that back but rather than having the characters discover limits to their powers (for example using a mental power might drain their physical strength, time travel might risk some sort of rupture and so on), they are just taking powers away and having characters act stupid.
There is lots of potential still so I'm still hoping they pull it together. I'm thinking they could do some cool things with Ando's supercharger power -- maybe if Ando supercharges Hiro they will be able to teleport together, maybe if Ando supercharges Peter, Peter would be able to retain multiple powers. We already know that super charging Matt causes an overload so we could potentially have Heroes who benefit from supercharging and those who would be hindered by it.
Also, Tracy is likely dead but they told us at the beginning of the season that she was one of "triplets", so I don't expect to be rid of Ali Larder yet.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I was really expecting Tracy to do the Terminator thing and coalesce as she melted. And yes, they have left themselves an opening to give her yet another incarnation. Not really sure why they would, though - that whole triplet thing was such a dead end storyline.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Yeah, the triplet out occurred to me, and I'd believe that before I'd believe Tracy is coming back. She wasn't even an interesting character. They were trying to make a female Nathan and it didn't work, possibly because Nathan isn't even interesting or consistent. Especially not consistent.
Does anyone GET Angela, btw? She's been in the background all along but I just don't know what she WANTS. That is, aside from whatever the writers think is convenient this episode.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
Christine - I think you've hit on what makes this show frustrating for me. With LOST, for example, you might not have a clue what someone's motivation is, but the show is put together in such a way that you believe they DO have a motivation, that the motivation is at least logical from their point of view, and that they will continue to act in accordance with that motivation.
With Heroes, it feels like the heroes wake up every morning, get out of bed, and roll a six sided die to determine their motivation of the day.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Only six sides?
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
How did Peter maintain his ability to fly while touching his mother? Is it skin-contact only, and were they just careful to avoid that?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I think he has to will the power to be absorbed.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by T:man: I think he has to will the power to be absorbed.
That's not the way it worked on the plane. He accidentally touched Tracy, gained the freezing power and lost his super strength. Of course maybe this is something he can learn to control like her learned to control his original power.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Powers are generally activated when in periods of emotional extremes, like stress, fear, pain, the plane qualifies certainly as a stressful situation.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Powers are generally activated when in periods of emotional extremes, like stress, fear, pain, the plane qualifies certainly as a stressful situation.
It seems that way but you point once again to a major problem with the show. They haven't clearly defined (apparently even in the minds of the writers) how powers work and what their limitations are.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Brian Fuller is back and the show is already more interesting.
I had been starting to dread watching Heroes and now I look forward to it again.
("If you dreaded it, why were you still watching?" Habit.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by T:man: I think he has to will the power to be absorbed.
That's not the way it worked on the plane. He accidentally touched Tracy, gained the freezing power and lost his super strength. Of course maybe this is something he can learn to control like her learned to control his original power.
He touched Matt and Mohinder and maintained the flying ability during the time they were together. I'm not entirely clear what happened on the plane, but maybe he wanted Tracy's power for some reason? Super strength wasn't the most useful at that point.
I definitely did not get the impression that he automatically got the powers of anyone he touched.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by hansenj:
quote:I wasn't clear what happened to Daphne in the end. It was clear she was still in serious condition in the hospital, but I didn't get the impression she was dead.
There were zeros on all the monitors. It was pretty clear to me.
No, next week they'll say that her super-speedy heart was beating so fast, it only looked like a heart rate of 0 on all the monitors.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Danko is Old School. I loved the shaving brush and double edged razor.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I don't think we have to worry about the Triplets. One was Traci, one was Micah's mom, and the other was her long-dead sister. (The latter two names escape me)
Of course, I wouldn't put it past them for sis to not be dead after all...
One thing I was disappointed in was how it had (in the previous episodes epilogue) shown Sylar waiting in Danko's living room in the shadows. I guess they changed their minds.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I don't think they forgot about it. Sylar delivered the puppet-man to Danko, which is what I think he was doing in the apartment. He's playing a game with him, and from the previews it looks like he'll be using/working with Danko in the near future.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: I don't think we have to worry about the Triplets. One was Traci, one was Micah's mom, and the other was her long-dead sister. (The latter two names escape me)
I think the long-dead sister was not her "real" sister, so we may have yet another incarnation of Traci to look forward to. Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
I liked that Walt was Rebel. I mean Micah...
I feel like it is taking forever for Heroes to heal. Like has been said before, they are introducing new limitations and fixing the holes. Peter has one power, Parkman's mental draining, Hiro, etc.
But they don't need to do certain things. That scene where Ando's power becomes active? Totally unnecessary and just annoying.
I thought they would introduce Barbara before offing Traci, but ::shrug:: Heroes needs to work on relationships more and plot less...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:That scene where Ando's power becomes active? Totally unnecessary and just annoying.
In what way? We already knew he was going to be able to do that from when he did it to Hiro in the future. We just don't know what exactly it is that he's doing.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeorge:
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: I don't think we have to worry about the Triplets. One was Traci, one was Micah's mom, and the other was her long-dead sister. (The latter two names escape me)
I think the long-dead sister was not her "real" sister, so we may have yet another incarnation of Traci to look forward to.
I don't know. I think Jessica was really her sister, who she thought was her twin sister. And she died and became Nikki's alternate personality. That leaves Tracy. But she did wink, so I don't think she's dead.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Did she wink? I thought she cried. I thought that was a tear that rolled down her cheek.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'm pretty sure that was a wink. Either way it suggests she's not dead yet.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Just watched it back. It was a blink and a tear. Or a wink and some water dripping down her cheek.
If it is the former, she might still be alive, but it might suggest she is dead, and it'd be a poetic way to end her life...
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
Once there was a time when it was guaranteed that when I checked Hatrack on Tuesday morning, the Heroes thread would be bumped to the top of the page with discussions about the previous night's episode.
Those days seem to be over...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I watched it. Wasn't much o say. We're back to the season 1 Syler that I think should have died in season 1. Hiro and Ando were, once again, absent, and the show suffered for it. Angela's babbling confession in church came contrary to everything she's ever done. Nathan is once again sorry for screwing up. Inconsistency is perhaps the one consistent thing in the show.
Oh, and Syler can shape shift. Just what we needed. It seems that the only place the writers can handle too much power is in the bad guy. They can give him shape shifting and won't let Hiro have teleportation? Give me a break!
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
/agree with Christine. There isn't much to say. It's all so muddled and murky anymore, and Sylar should have died at the end of Season 1.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I disagree. Sylar should have focused on developing his own sense of self and morality and ended up with Elle. That had the beginnings of an interesting, thoughtful story line. So of course they killed it.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: I disagree. Sylar should have focused on developing his own sense of self and morality and ended up with Elle. That had the beginnings of an interesting, thoughtful story line. So of course they killed it.
That story line pissed me off so much I am trying to block it out. The thing is I hated Syler for 2 seasons straight and for a few episodes in season 3 they start to make me care about him, even like him a bit and maybe think he's a human being. Then, for no apparent reason they rip it all away.
Rumor is that one of the big first season writers is back...it seems he's trying to get back his vision of Syler. His course now reminds me of the episode where Hiro goes 5 years in the future...Syler shape changed into the president, they're rounding up people with powers, and he wants nothing more than to be the only one left. Pretty shallow and unimaginative.
Plus, what in the world happened to that punk sidekick of his?
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I don't think the season one writer was there at all during the first half of season 3. He wasn't there for the thing with Elle. I'm not even sure he's back for these episodes yet anyway.
They were written awhile ago, after all, and the writer didn't come back until quite recently. In fact, he didn't rejoin the team until the writing of episode 20, which hasn't aired yet, so his influence isn't back in the least.
So... uh, yeah. Don't blame him. He wrote back when the series was good, anyway, and not when it started to suck...
[ March 31, 2009, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: 0Megabyte ]
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I liked this episode quite a bit. I thought it was a good use of Claire's power to drink the guys under the table. I mean, if the only reason for the writers to use "abilities" is to advance the plot, you're missing out on a lot of opportunities. Likewise, Hiro and the wheelbarrow returned to the likeable Hiro we met in the first season.
I also thought Noah seeing Sylar dead was a good bit of writing. They can do a lot with that. And I liked that Danko is using the "one of us, one of them" while still berating Noah for being naive about trusting "terrorists"
Personally, I didn't mind Sylar being a good guy, but I hated the way he became evil again. They could have done a lot with his character involving shades of gray and backsliding into addiction, but they just threw it all away with one cheap ending.
And yeah, I wonder where his sidekick went.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I was happy with this episode until I realized they just forgot about his sidekick. I don't think the problem is with this version of Sylar, the problem was their random decision to make him good in season 3.0.
I do think Sylar can and should eventually become better (not necessarily good) but Season 3.0 was too much too fast.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I liked this episode quite a bit. I thought it was a good use of Claire's power to drink the guys under the table.
Really. And a regenerating liver keeps her from getting drunk exactly how?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I think the *regenerating liver* was more of a random guess on Claire's part, but I think it's perfectly reasonably for a fake genetic mutation that instantly regenerates tissue to also protect the body from toxins.
Seriously, if you're gonna complain about fake science, you're watching the wrong show.
[ March 31, 2009, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Thats a TV trope itself
I liked the episode, and I dont think Mama Petrelli's confession was at all contrary, I think of it as VillainBreakdown/BSOD shes lost EVERYTHING and realizes finally, its all HER fault for being a magnificent bastard and now with her heel face turn is ready to join the good guys in saving the day.
Wow, I couldnt have fit more tropes into that even if I tried.
TV Tropes will ruin your life.
I think there's more to Sylar then is being let on, the think the encounter with his father has made him realize or wish to realize something, and this is All Part of the Plan.
And You know, I Effing Called it! They're showing us that the future cant nessasarily be changed or if it can its like Terminator syndrome and they cana djust the future or keep putting off a really bad event but the timeline will keep trying to fix itself, this IS season one, we're seeing the pieces of it all coming back into place, the rounding up of people with powers, Hiro and Peter becomming freedom fighters, syler becomming hidden president crouching badass.
Awesome.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
In Terminator, it actually makes a degree of sense. (In the third movie they just rant about Destiny all the time but so far I think the way it's playing out in the TV show is fairly realistic).
There are many people in the world working on artificial intelligence. There are many people in the government who'd like to better integrate artificial intelligence with military technology. You'd have to kill all those people to prevent Skynet from being born.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:I think there's more to Sylar then is being let on
See I wish there wasn't, I was sorta interested in is forays to the good side, but his total conversion to being evil just completely turned me off to the show.
I am reconvinced that Sylar should have simply died when Hiro stabbed him, and that the show had simply gone in a completely different direction.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I am merely reconvinced that writers should not write badly. Sylar could have been perfectly interesting if Season 2-3.0 hadn't been just plain dumb.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I like this Sylar. I really do.
I find it ironic how people can complain about characters being too static and predictable one minute, and then turn around and complain that they're too dynamic the next. The way I look at it, he was experimenting with being "Good" like a teenager might experiment with [fill in the blank]. It just didn't take. TRYING to change, and CHANGING are two completely different things. I don't think Sylar ever changed. Now Angela Petrelli on the other hand; I think she's changing (or at least trying to), and so is Nathan for that matter.
The twists in this episode amused me so greatly, that for the first time in a long time, I ended the episode with a big stupid giddy smile on my face. That expression is usually reserved for House and especially witty episodes of Dexter or Breaking Bad. That I could experience that again with this show brought me great joy and hope for future episodes.
I'm also very intrigued by the above theory of the "Terminator time-line" phenomenon. I foresee another "Cat's Cradle" room in this show's near future.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Thats a TV trope itself
I personally wish they could get some where that Peter could experiment with his powers. I wonder if he tried to take Sylar's powers would he get all of them, or just Sylar's original power, or maybe just one random power?
If he got Sylar's original power and used it to acquire another one, either through opening their head, or through empathy (how Sylar took Elle's power) then would he retain that power permanently, or lose it next time he took an ability through touch?
Or could Ando charge Peter up enough that he could hold onto more than one power? And if so would the powers begin fading the second Ando was no longer touching him?
I know there is pretty much no way to write any of this into the show, those types experiments probably belong back in the old days of the company, maybe when Bob was running things, he seemed to like human experiments. Still I wonder about the possibilities.
Also Sylar sent his sidekick away during their trip to the old diner where he lost the toy car as a child, and his mother died. The real question is what will happen when that kid pops up on a list to be captured, as he is someone Sylar at least wants left alive it seems.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
They've really dropped the ball on Ando. He's supposed to enhance people's powers and they didn't even pair him up with Hiro so that he could teleport in their last episode together. Instead, they turned his power into a weapon. If they would get these people TOGETHER and keep them there (like I thought they were going to do earlier in the season), then they could organize a resistance that could really work -- all their powers complimenting one another. They could be the ringleaders and there could be others....there doesn't seem to be a shortage of people with powers out there. These guys are just the "in" crowd. You get Ando and Peter together and they could seriously kick some tush.
As for whether or not there's more going on with Syler ... I considered this possibility while I was watching on Monday. I won't go so far as to say I hope so, because I've given up hoping on this show, but I would be pleased by such a turn. Certainly, the potential is still there for Syler to be more than what he seems to be right now.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:I think there's more to Sylar then is being let on
See I wish there wasn't, I was sorta interested in is forays to the good side, but his total conversion to being evil just completely turned me off to the show.
I am reconvinced that Sylar should have simply died when Hiro stabbed him, and that the show had simply gone in a completely different direction.
Dont know why my post didnt go through but my thouights are that this doesn't follow.
Your basically saying that you WISH and or prefer that Sylar remain a 2 dimensional character but you liked it when he did recieve character development but wish it never happened and that he'ld go away for remaining a 2 dimensional character.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Your basically saying that you WISH and or prefer that Sylar remain a 2 dimensional character but you liked it when he did recieve character development but wish it never happened and that he'ld go away for remaining a 2 dimensional character.
I think the issue is that characters aren't really able to hold peoples interest unless they develop, and random poorly explained changes in behavior aren't the same as character development.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I think the issue is that characters aren't really able to hold peoples interest unless they develop, and random poorly explained changes in behavior aren't the same as character development.
yes yes yes yes yes.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
i dont think has been changing randomly or unexplained, i think this is something we need to wait a little for.
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
But asking us to wait requires some degree of trust that the writers actually have something reasonable, logical and satisfying up their sleeves. Perhaps you trust them, but in the past couple seasons of this show, I haven't seen much that would lead me to have that kind of trust.
Maybe they'll surprise me.
At this point I mostly just watch the show because a friend of mine does, and it gives us an excuse to get together and hang out.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Is it sad that I really enjoyed that bit of acting when Peter prayed to God? I know it may be cliche, but still...
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I am very tempted to ask for this thread to be closed. Heroes is no longer worth it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I will lose all respect for you as a human being if you do so, I enjoy heroes other people like it, if you don't then dont look at the thread, not like were insulting you.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I will lose all respect for you as a human being if you do so
Wow. Coming from a Mao fanboy, that's really something. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Could be worse, I could lose all respect for him as my food.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I shudder to imagine the quantities of ketchup that might be involved. *grin*
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: I am very tempted to ask for this thread to be closed. Heroes is no longer worth it.
That's like asking for the heroes seasons 2 and 3 threads to be closed.
It's a series that passed into the 'so bad it's fun' category. In each forum that talks about heroes, the response is the same: people love love love to complain about the show. It's legit entertainment.
Plus there's a hope (however slim) that it's on the up-and-up, so
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: I am very tempted to ask for this thread to be closed. Heroes is no longer worth it.
That's like asking for the heroes seasons 2 and 3 threads to be closed.
It's a series that passed into the 'so bad it's fun' category. In each forum that talks about heroes, the response is the same: people love love love to complain about the show. It's legit entertainment.
Plus there's a hope (however slim) that it's on the up-and-up, so
Is that why I keep watching it?
I have to say that I'm actually enjoying the show more now than I did during the 2nd and 3rd seasons. At that time, I kept hoping the show would make a turn for the better and it frustrated me every time it didn't. Now, with no expectations, I'm just enjoying the simple, inane, wish-fulfillment fantasy that's the entire reason I started watching the show in the first place.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I don't watch a lot of TV. Heck, I'll come out and say it, the only show I watch week in and out is Heroes. I don't think its particularly good, and it has given me ample reasons to stop watching it (I think the low for me was when Peter took Sylar's "hunger" for all of two episodes and then forgot about it, and the whole Catalyst thing). And yet, as has been mentioned, I do keep coming back for more punishment. I love to complain about it, to be upset about it, etc etc. My question is this: Is there another show like this? How unique is Heroes in this phenomenon of only having one semi-good season and the next three being sucky with no real sign of change, and people still watching it? And I ask out of genuine curiosity. Is there another prime-time show that has or does fit this MO?
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Bryan Fuller will save us.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I miss Jericho.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Not really going to ask for this thread to be shut. But Sylar getting shapeshifting hits a raw nerve. Don't know why.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: Not really going to ask for this thread to be shut. But Sylar getting shapeshifting hits a raw nerve. Don't know why.
For me, the biggest reason is because they've given Peter and Hiro shadows of their former power and left Syler uber-powerful and getting stronger by the episode.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Thing is, it's perfectly okay for the bad guy to be uber powerful. They're the bad guy. Stopping them is supposed to be hard. When good guys are that powerful the show just can't be interesting without them also being really stupid.
I'd rather have a smart, appropriately powerful Peter and Hiro than the dumb original versions. Meanwhile, Sylar being crazy powerful doesn't hamper the story at all. In fact I'd say it makes it more interesting, since it will take multiple heroes acting intelligently to take him down. The only thing that DOES bother me is his immunity to mental powers. I wouldn't mind this if they just explained it, that yes, he DID in fact take the brain of someone whose power was simply being immune to mind-manipulation.
Shape shifting doesn't bother me. It makes him harder to stop, yes, but also requires both him and his opponents to act more intelligent for it to be interesting.
Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
Shape shifting doesn't bother me because he is too powerful. It bothers me because I don't want to take away from the acting. They can pretty much replace the current actor and just say that the new guy is Sylar. I hope that isn't what they have in mind.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Oh, that would really suck...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I'd like to know how he got from the back of a closed car to the top of a roof so quickly.
Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
I said the exact same thing. He can't teleport, and doesn't have super speed or anything...but he just appears in the car, and the disappears and is back on a roof. Do they want us to assume that he has powers that they haven't shown us?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Yes.
We already know he is really good at being sneaky and what not.
As for the acting, he acts perfectly like the people hes assuming. Hes only Hannible Lecture when in his current form.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
GRRRR!!!!! This episode pissed me off so much. We had so many characters ACTUALLY ACTING INTELLIGENT. And then those same characters acted SOOO STUPID!!!!!
Everyone had Danko at gunpoint at least once. Bennett didn't even have a good reason to leave him, he could have walked his way out of range of the other henchmen and either shot Danko once he was clear or... something. Anything.
And Matt Parkman suddenly realizes life is worth living when he learns he has a son. Which is great. Except that Molly is still off at boarding school somewhere waiting for him.
Geez. I really wanted to like this episode. It had a lot of good moments in it. (I think the writers have made good use of Sylar's shapeshifting. Every time Sylar was in the scene, I could tell, but I always guessed wrong at who he was).
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
I watched it again after missing the last four. It was like I didn't realize a burden had been lifted from my shoulders until it was back for an hour.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: GRRRR!!!!! This episode pissed me off so much. We had so many characters ACTUALLY ACTING INTELLIGENT. And then those same characters acted SOOO STUPID!!!!!
It's the syndrome of the arch-villain who has to survive. And yeah, this was very close to being a great episode, especially thanks to Bennet. Although I dislike some of his actions he has by far proved to be the most intelligent/cunning character in the series.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
The dynamic between Sylar and Bennett in this last episode shows that you can have intelligent characters acting intelligently, yet STILL have them get into all manner of dramatic conflict!
Why can't they just do that with, you know, the rest of the show.
Parkman's dynamic with Danko approached this, but they had to go and bring a gun into the mess again. Why on earth would Parkman need to threaten anyone with a gun? The dramatic setup of Danko losing the person he loved - not through death, but through disgust, is great.
The whole threaten-to-kill-girlfriend/gave-up-and-was-willing-to-die bit was a cheap way to bring Hiro into the mix, but really watered down the Parkman/Danko dynamic. He could have just as easily made both Danko and the girl believe that he had been shot and killed - or anything else for that matter - while simply walking out of the room himself.
Seems the writers woke up somewhat from their stupor, but are still a bit bleary-eyed.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think the bit with the gun is sort of played out by now. We KNOW that Parkman can't kill an innocent person in cold blood. I'm not even sure he could kill a guilty person in cold blood (else Danko would be dead). But the fact that he brought the gun out showed that A. He very much WANTED to be that person. I thought it was a good way to portray the split in his character, between his desire for revenge and his inability to overcome his better angels. B. The fact that he not only doesn't kill the girl, but doesn't kill Danko as well when he has him cold says a lot about his state of mind as well. C. Only more proof positive how much of a ruthless bastard Danko really is.
I'm glad they're exploring the dynamic of the good/evil tactics. What sorts of things are we willing to resort to to win a war, and do we lose in the attempt just by lowering our standards? I think Hiro is far too simplistic a character to make the argument for goodness, but Matt is perfectly complex and conflicted enough to make the argument that the ends justify the means. Bennett would be good in that regard as well, but then you have Danko, who so obviously points out that the means cause more problems than they solve.
There are a lot of issues being explored in this show, but I think the way they are portrayed makes you dig for them more than than say BSG does, which pushed them into your face and made you deal with them. A more in your face Heroes I think would be more successful. But that means they have to pair up the opposing sides of arguments with better representatives. I love Hiro, but he's too one dimensional.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Honestly, every time a character on this show pulls out a gun, I groan.
It's lazy writing.
Parkman doesn't need a gun, as we have seen. He can make you do things with his mind. Why shoot someone when you can have them shoot themselves, or have someone else shoot them for you (as he has done already). Or better, as he had already done, ruin them without resorting to the gun.
If I could stomach it, I'd go back through Seasons 2-4 and catalogue every time someone with powers pulled out a gun and why it was a terrible decision by the writers.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Sorry for the string posting, but another thought occurred to me.
I think the writing in the show would be better if every character were written as if it were their show.
Heroes has a string of characters with powers that could each likely carry their own show, and the writers would be tasked with thinking up new ways to use/hinder that character's power.
Instead, the plot comes before the characters... and the characters often need to be hit with the idiot bat to make sure they fall in line with the plot.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
like a d&d campaign with a newb dm and powergamer characters.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've stopped overanalyzing the show. Or analyzing it much at all, really. I just keep hoping they get all the heroes together in one spot. I've had that desire since season 1, though, and it hasn't happened yet.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Blayne, it really is like a bad DM. Forcing the plot, regardless of the actions of the player characters - which generally makes for a pretty frustrating gaming experience.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Though i bet you wouldnt complain if you got paid to act on a railroad plot Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I wouldn't complain if I got paid to watch one, either. But since I don't get paid, I don't have a problem complaining. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
[url= http://"http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/television"]This[/url] is a fairly interesting article about the future of TV, with a particular comment by Tim Kring as the focus of the article.
Edit: No matter how many times I edit the URL here it always comes out wrong. Whatever. In retrospect it wasn't actually that great an article, which can basically be summed up as "With the advent of the internet, prime time television will be replaced with topical and/or reality crap."
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
It's going to have to change. We'll see a lot fewer shows that can't make money through product placement, I think.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
there is a space between [url= and the addy.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I know, I kept changing that, and it wouldn't register the change (there's also two https, and it wouldn't let me change that either. it was weird).
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I thought I watched Heroes all the way through, but maybe I missed some bits while I was doing the laundry. Did they ever explain why Alice was freaking out pretty much the entire time they were there? Or why the boys were willing to sneak out to eat fries but go on to found the Company?
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
That was an interesting episode. I was pretty disappointed by it most of the way because it seemed like yet another pointless episode, introducing another pointless character, ignoring what had gone on before only to be ignored by the next episode.
But then at the end where it looked more or less like they were forming a new Company, or at least a Family, I started liking it. Maybe getting back to the first season? Maybe actually getting the characters together, or at least in contact with each other?
Eh, who am I kidding.
But then, even if the episode is just another crappy one, I'll still keep watching. *sigh*
As an aside, does anyone else remember in whatever season Adam was the protagonist there being some newspaper article flashed at some point about someone changing the weather? I think actually it was someone looking at a folder or book in Bob's office which had an article about "freak weather changes" or something. I dunno ... maybe I'm just imagining things. Either way I thought her sister was pretty pointless.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I like how the memes from season one as I pointed out.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I like how the memes from season one as I pointed out.
Would you like to buy a word?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Oh, and the reason I came to this thread (sorry Blayne, it wasn't you ): the only good thing about this episode was seeing Sylar at the end. In retrospect it was an obvious move and I'm ashamed I haven't thought of it...
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corwin: Oh, and the reason I came to this thread (sorry Blayne, it wasn't you )
Yes it was me Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Lies.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I thought it was an interesting episode because there has been this history of the company hanging over the series since the beginning. It's about time that we started to get a sense of how that history came about.
Also, we know that abilities are genetic, and Heroes is based around how the current generation of people with abilities is in conflict with how the previous generation learned to deal with the problem. It seems we now have three generations actively dealing with the "ability problem."
Also note: although I didn't call it here, I had guessed that Rebel was Micah. I also think that Micah must be working with Molly, since he would need her power to locate the people he's been communicating with through technology.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Lies.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I also think that Micah must be working with Molly, since he would need her power to locate the people he's been communicating with through technology.
Ooh, I like that a lot! I hadn't considered that aspect of the situation, but it's a pretty awesome one. Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I hope it's true. Molly's one of my favorite characters and right now it looks like they basically forgot about her.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
Wow, this topic's dropped WAY down.
This episode just proved to me why I think Sylar should have been killed permanently at the end of Season 1. For all that I do have to say Zachary Quinto is doing a fine acting job with him... the character just drives me nuts. Always has, and I think always will.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
This episode I think signified the end of heroes for me. I LIKE Sylar. I've been waiting for an episode like this for forever... but they've screwed up his character so much that by the time we finally got here, I just didn't care.
And while it DOES make a degree of sense for the "brain stabbing thing" to not have worked (his body's changing so much and probably mutating itself by this point), it's a boring plot twist. Shape shifting forced characters to act intelligent and produced interesting stories. Sylar being even more unkillable than he already was... doesn't.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
So basically you get to say "I stopped watching Heroes about the time we found out Sylar is Norman Bates"
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
If the episode had come before season 3.0, I think I'd have been fine with it.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Eh, I didn't mind it. I mean, there have been a LOT worse, IMO. I actually thought the confrontation between Sylar and Nathan was pretty well done, though I wondered where Peter was. And I don't think Sylar is unkillable. If his brain exploded into tiny bits, that might be enough, unless he actually exists outside of his body and doesn't need a brain at all. Heh. I could just picture the writers doing that: Sylar dies, but then possesses someone else.
I still maintain that if you've watched the show through the whole catalyst, Peter taking Sylars power, etc etc story line, or even if you watched Peter completely forget about the girl he was trying to save from the virus, the current issues with the show are really not that bad.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
No, but this is clearly as good as it's going to get, even with Fuller back at the helm.
I'm still pissed that Molly's gone (and my dad's Molly + Micah theory doesn't seem to have worked out).
I do wonder if maybe this season will end with a Peter/Sylar fight, with Peter taking Sylar's powers. (I'm not sure if it'd be cool or lame for Peter to be able to take all of Sylar's powers at once)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was mostly bored with this week's episode. It didn't advance the plot much. All it did was throw a couple of frankly annoying twists in...messing with Hiro's power (again), Syler unable to die (again), Syler going back and forth in his mind to try to determine how he can best serve the plot (again). Even baby touch and go bored me. I mean, Matt Parkman drove across the country just so he could dump the plot tool (I mean his son) and drive back.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
So, Sylar slit Nathan's throat, so Matt did some mind magic on Sylar and turned him (obviously imperfectly) into Nathan, who then talked to the President and somehow that fixed everything, in spite of all the bodies on the deck not only historically, but in this very episode?
I'd be *REALLY* interested in that conversation.
Suspension if disbelief is completely toasted. and yet.. somehow.. I know I'll be watching season 5 anyway. Stupid train wrecks. . . .
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You know, I don't think Gabriel liked being who he was. He's got to be happier this way.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
Doesn't Claire's blood heal dead people?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I'm willing to forget that notion if they are, so long as it's gone for good.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
NERD RAGE! EPIC BATTLE BETWEEN PETER AND SYLAR AND ITS OFF FREAKING CAMERA!?
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEE!!!!!
Other then that... *Ahem*
"You are nolonger Zero! Nolonger Lelouch vi Britannia! You are now Lelouch Lepamerge! Forget about being Zero!"
Code Geass geek moment of awesomeness And also Nightmare Fuel.
Then there's the Stockhole Syndrome rape overtunes, creepy, but expected, that girl when in Maxim was hawt.
I liked how the pieces built up sorta worked but theres some plotholes to consider, by lasering out his memories of Sylar couldnt he heal those? What stops him from using his other powers by accident? I geuss it all depends on how powerful Matts ability is, if you can convince the brain wihtout damaging it to "forget" all his powers that could work, but healing and as confirmed, his intuitive aptitude his passive abilities still seem to be around.
This isn't going to end well, and if they were Genre Savvy they would know THIS WOULD NEVER END WELL.
Also, idiot ball people can they inject Nathan with Claire's blood and heal him? Like with Noah back in season 2?
Why cant they put Claires blood in Hiro? Like give him a sash of shots to heal his Brain every 5 times or so he freezes time?
*Nerd rage broke ability to handwave shows flaws from being unable to see epic special effects showdown of ultimate destiny RAWR*
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
quote:Nerd rage broke ability to handwave shows flaws
Been waiting for that to happen. Welcome!
Yeah, a lot of the plot decisions were just painful. I'm also curious what happens when Nathan tries to fly.
The offscreen fight is likely a result of slipping ratings and the network's unwillingness to spend a lot of money on effects. They took great pains in this episode to have as many "powers" happen offscreen as possible.
I'm hoping Season 5 is a fresh start with new writing direction, but I'm very doubtful.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I could have handle all the plot inconsistencies if they hadn't so totally screwed up Hiro. I was mad at them at the end of last season for leaving his powerless. I wasn't thrilled that they left him a bit lame this season, only giving him back the ability to freeze time, but especially as that's pretty powerful in and of itself, I was willing to go with it. And then they had to have his body reject the power? ARGH! I want Hiro back. Every since the future Hiro episode, I've been waiting for Hiro to become that...totally cool ass-kicking Hiro. Why oh why can't they give Hiro a real challenge instead of these flimsy, manufactured ones? Nose bleeds and headaches? Puh-lease!
And HORRIBLE AWFUL BLONDE CHICK ISN'T DEAD!
I don't think they could have ended this season much worse. And yeah, I was also very ticked off about the behind closed doors battle between Peter and Syler.
Got nothing good to say about the show and yet...and yet...on the off chance that next season Hiro will come back and kick ass...
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
A Hiro that requires either Ando's power ups to be fully effective, OR requires significant rest between usages of his timey-freezy power can be usable with the plot and him not holding the Idiot ball.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
As for ratings if I recall a week or so ago it was said that Heroes was still the highest rated show for MSNBC or whatever their network is for our demographic so I dont think its that bad. Im more willing to forgive the offscreen fights under the resumption of not having enough time.
Also, I think Ill be using Hulu to watch it now, rather then waiting for a torrent.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by manji:
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent, if not more so, as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
They need Anime writers, Lelouch had a super power in Code Geass, extremely powerful by Heroes measuring stick + Crazy Prepared Xanatos Gambits.
How do they hold him back? By a combination of having the WORST LUCK IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE seriously its true the sheer number of unlikely things that happen to ruin his plans (Only for him to still win in the end) and by having competent enemies who occasionally are just as smart as he is with Mooks with powers just as powerful.
They need Anime writers.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
And HORRIBLE AWFUL BLONDE CHICK ISN'T DEAD!
You thought she was? Honestly, what does her eye blinking mean to you?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
>>>Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
Not unless the antagonists ALSO have time powers (or have such broad reaching, manipulative deceptive designs that the main characters can't figure out what's going on at all. Intelligent good guy with time powers = bad guys cannot accomplish anything. Ever. At all. And antagonists with time powers = an entire show that's basically about nothing but time travel. We already had that for two (three?) seasons and the only way to shift the show's focus to something else is to drastically gimp the time travel capabilities.
>>>A Hiro that requires either Ando's power ups to be fully effective, OR requires significant rest between usages of his timey-freezy power can be usable with the plot and him not holding the Idiot ball.
Exactly. I think they've brought Hiro to a point where he CAN do the cool things often enough to be cool, without requiring ludicrously intelligent and/or powerful villains (and writers) to be worth watching.
Hiro and Peter might get their powers back in the final season, but not before then.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Actually you could make a show with intelligent Heroes with time powers, just look to video games, Chrono Trigger I think handled some of the aspect pretty well.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
It really seems like Ando has entirely forgotten that his power is to supercharge people, not to blast them with red sparks.
I can't say I especially liked this episode, but whatever. I'm kinda pissed they decided to call it "The Company" again after they had already said "This isn't a Company, its a family." I thought "The Family" would've sounded really cool.
So will Season 5 take the perspective of The Compnay or will it follow individuals around as they act stupid?
Oh, and how long will they be able to stay away from having Zachary Quinto dominate the air time?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Hey, I think next to Hiro Sylar was one of the best characters when the writers knew what they wanted.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I was so happy about him overcoming his evil side and becoming a decent human being. And then the writers went, "Psyche!" They suck.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
And HORRIBLE AWFUL BLONDE CHICK ISN'T DEAD!
You thought she was? Honestly, what does her eye blinking mean to you?
Farewell. I knew I was being naive at the time, but I did hope...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: >>>Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
Not unless the antagonists ALSO have time powers (or have such broad reaching, manipulative deceptive designs that the main characters can't figure out what's going on at all. Intelligent good guy with time powers = bad guys cannot accomplish anything. Ever. At all. And antagonists with time powers = an entire show that's basically about nothing but time travel. We already had that for two (three?) seasons and the only way to shift the show's focus to something else is to drastically gimp the time travel capabilities.
You do have to tweak the antagonist to fit the protagonist. You can't have a time stopping hero go after simple thugs. But powerful heroes have long come with powerful villains and this is an accepted and, IMO, highly enjoyable dynamic. You start them with simpler villains as they get the hang of their power then, as they come into it, you give them increasingly greater challenges.
Instead, they gave him a nose bleed. I'm sorry, but watching Hiro get yanked around by the writers season after season isn't fun. Memory loss...loss of powers...regaining partial power...getting seizures...these types of gimmicks can work sparingly, but they have consumed all of Hiros' character and I'm fed up with them. They used similar ones on Peter as well, but they managed to find a livable compromise in his character. I actually think they've balanced Peter rather well. Even if they felt the need to eliminate time travel (which I could blame them for entirely), why can't they just give him his time stopping power and let good bad guys supply the rest?
Oh yeah, because they can't write.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Instead of going through this whole Sylar-as-Nathan rigamarole, which is doomed to fail, why didn't they just inject Nathan's corpse with Claire's blood? Seemed to work pretty well for HRG a season or two ago.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It only works once. It's like a spell.
Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
I hope they stop introducing new characters next season and just focus on the existing cast.
I really want the show to have a Batman-type character (someone who's highly intelligent and doesn't have super powers). For most of the show, Noah has filled this role, but they occasionally forgot to make him awesome. I was glad to see him getting his edge back at the end of this season.
As much as this season failed at the start, I liked the ending. Heck, I liked it more than the ending of season one (which was very lame IMO, they just kind of threw all the heroes together and then Nicki hits Sylar with a parking meter for no reason...).
If they manage to gain consistency in plot and characters, and they actually remember what happens in previous episodes, I think the next season will be good (or at least better).
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
And HORRIBLE AWFUL BLONDE CHICK ISN'T DEAD!
You thought she was? Honestly, what does her eye blinking mean to you?
And in Ask Ausiello today, there was this:
Question: You were right: The Heroes finale was fantastic. Any scoop on season 4? --Eric Ausiello: Tracy's whole revenge arc will serve as a centerpiece of next all's "Redemption" volume.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
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