Some time ago, I accidentally signed up for various GOP spam mailings, and they faithfully send them to me every few hours (despite my having unsubscribed a few times). Very rarely something catches my eye before I delete them, and so I came across this story of the No-Cussing Club started by then-fourteen-year-old McKay Hatch at his junior high because he was bothered by all the "vulgarity" around him and because his friends "didn't even realize they were [cussing]."
Apparently, he went on lots of talk shows to promote his No-Cussing Club, and his site ( No Cussing) claims to have members in all fifty states as well as internationally. You can take the No-Cussing Pledge, or pre-order the book.
However, it appears the this kid has received death threats because of his club ( ABC ) and advertises himself as "The most cyberbullied kid in the world!"
Now, I really don't find the death-threats to be appropriate, but for some reason, I find the website to be rather distasteful (aside from the fact that it's garishly ugly). It seems to be full of Christian sentiments in a sort of coded form, which strikes me as dishonest.
Also, the word "cussing" used repeatedly just seems really grade-school.
And I can't help but feel like this child was bothered by something his parents told him was bad and then manipulated into feeling like it was his "mission."
Personally, I don't see anything actually wrong with swearing, as they're just some words that are judged by society to be "bad" and that we are trained to have emotionally charged reactions to. It's a good idea to use moderation, but swearing off a whole category of words seems excessive.
It also bothers me that the prevalence of swearing is implied to be some form of hostility to Christians, as is hostility to this child's "mission."
Any thoughts?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
I don't swear and I find that kid and his mission really annoying.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
But The Chastity League is way super!
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I think it's a bit pathetic, and he and his members are setting themsleves up to be ridiculed. Not that there's anything wrong to not swearing, but I don't my patites in a wad if my kids spill an occaisional bad word out of frustration, either. The fact that McKay looks just like a young Kirk Cameron adds to the weird.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
quote: "I want to stop cussing. But its hard to quit cold turkey. Do you have any suggestions of other words I can use?"
We have responded to thousands of e-mails like this.
While the goal is to control our anger and our tongues, we understand that sometimes you have to take small steps to reach a goal. So we've compiled a list of over 100 substitutes into an Ebook for you or that special someone you know.
Um... OK. I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"? Granted, the scatological element is absent, but the purpose of the exclamation remains the same. In fact, I'd probably argue that shouting "Oh Pickles!" mars the word "Pickle" by using it in such an absurd and illogical way.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
They need to link to the Shakespearean Insult Generator.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:"Um... OK. I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"? Granted, the scatological element is absent, but the purpose of the exclamation remains the same.
Indeed. It's always amusing when people curse frequently with substitute words. Some of them seem to use their chosen substitutes more frequently, and with more relish, than any cussers I've known. The overall effect can be that they are far more vulgar and obnoxious in their locution than they'd be if they occasionally said a naughty word.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:member's only page
I don't care if you "cuss", I just want you to do it in proper grammar.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi:
quote:member's only page
I don't care if you "cuss", I just want you to do it in proper grammar.
To whom were you addressing that ****ing comment?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
That's the spirit.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
But if we can't have cussing how can my friends comment on my "****ing" genius?
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
quote:Originally posted by T:man: But if we can't have cussing how can my friends comment on my "****ing" genius?
Something tells me it doesn't come up anyway.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"?
It's really not. Part of was makes cussing cussing is the fact that it's crude, profane, coarse, edgy, or otherwise offensive to some degree. "Pickles" just ain't.
[ January 30, 2009, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
quote:Originally posted by Godric 2.0: Um... OK. I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"? Granted, the scatological element is absent, but the purpose of the exclamation remains the same. In fact, I'd probably argue that shouting "Oh Pickles!" mars the word "Pickle" by using it in such an absurd and illogical way.
I was going to say this. I didn't look very hard, but I couldn't find anywhere on that site where he clearly defines what "cussing" is.
Is it flippant use of a word? Is it a certain set of words, no matter how they are used? Or is it some other definition?
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"?
It's really not. Part of was makes cussing cussing is the fact that it's crude, profane, coarse, edgy, or otherwise offensive to some degree. "Pickles" just ain't.
Clearly you haven't met my type of pickles. *waggles eyebrows*
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue:
quote:Originally posted by T:man: But if we can't have cussing how can my friends comment on my "****ing" genius?
Something tells me it doesn't come up anyway.
Actually its an old joke, getting kinda annoying...
(goes along with "hes 543 years old" joke...)
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
My friends and I used to have contests to see who could go the longest without swearing. Invariably, when someone slipped, they would say, "I didn't know we started yet." After that, we started saying, "Okay, starting now." Eventually, before starting we would feel the need to get all our swearing out of the way first. We would all then scream long, loud streams of obscenities before saying, "Staring now." We eventually realized this was encouraging swearing instead of discouraging it, so we stopped playing the game.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:And I can't help but feel like this child was bothered by something his parents told him was bad and then manipulated into feeling like it was his "mission."
I think the problem is that this website and the idea in general seems like something adults would set up. Even though it is advertised as started by the kid, it seems as if adults are pulling the strings.
You could have a website and a club like that thought up purely by kids, but I'd think it would look a lot different - less like propoganda. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if more authentic clubs like that already exist as facebook groups.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
This made me snort and giggle:
quote: "McKay's story of the No Cussing Club is one of courage. It's an inspiration to us all to never give up and to stand up for what you believe in." - Rudy Ruettiger, former football player for Notre Dame, from the movie "Rudy"
I'm just imagining that scene from the Simpsons, when Rudy shows up to go on the trip with the other guys, and Homer says: "go away Rudy, you're too small!" And Rudy says, "what I lack in size and agility I make up for in... obnoxiousness!" as he falls by the wayside behind the bus.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
I didn't do any more than look at his website, but I did read the ABC news article. I think it's a shame that people are harassing this kid. You don't like the site or the mission, then don't go there -- what's the problem?
quote: It seems to be full of Christian sentiments in a sort of coded form, which strikes me as dishonest.
Like what? (Like I said, I didn't read the site. It is ugly.) But I have a hard time seeing where dishonesty comes in; if the kid's a Christian and that's what informs his sense of mission, it's going to show in the things he says and does. Does that mean he's dishonest of he doesn't come out and say "don't swear for Jesus," but tries to take a more universal stand?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
It's a little weird to invite bullying by boasting about being the most cyberbullied kid. He claims to have received death threats, but who wants to make money off of that?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
[Removed link. --PJ]
[ January 31, 2009, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I did read the site, and I don't see anything about Christianity, coded or otherwise. And I tend to be pretty aware of language that people use to try to sneak religion in under the radar. The site doesn't use the word "mission," that was used in the news story, and even there it isn't clearly used in the religious sense.
The site is definitely ugly, though.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by T:man: Wow this is wierd[/URL]
That is really screwed up. Whistled. Please remove the link.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Ditoo, T:man. Doesn't your middle school have some activities for you to be doing?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I looked around the site, and I have to say it's just got a vaguely pathetic quality about it. The way our world works, this kid will probably grow up to be a porn actor or a social worker- there's no telling.
The porn actor thing comes from Ralphy (of a Christmas Story) getting into pornography in his adult life. Strange.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
The website itself is terribly designed. I could do a better job easily. That said, I am a web designer =).
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Ralphie didn't get into porn, his friend did.
It is a pretty ugly site. The worst part is how it's trying to connect with young people with things like "Ya Wanna Hang with Us? Don't Cuss!" and "So What's All The Fussin' About Cussin'?" Really pathetic.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Forgetting about the website for a second, the fact that a group of middle school students decided on their own to make that sort of effort to stop cussing is pretty admirable. It would be nice if other students around the country would be willing to risk their popularity enough to make similar decisions.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Sounds like a bad site. On the other hand, it's definitely true that swearing a blue streak sounds bad, and should be avoided. I associate it either with young kids who are learning how, and going through that period of reveling in the power of language, or else with working class men, who at least almost all try hard (with an occasional slip) to clean up their language around ladies. I really appreciate that they do that. I think it shows respect, and it shows that they are gentlemen.
To me, swearing profusely is a marker for a certain lack of gentility or consideration. I think those who refrain from swearing show that they're perhaps a little more sensitive and polite as people. I don't think it speaks well of you as a person if you can't speak without peppering your language with coarse and vulgar epithets, you know? Intelligent well-educated people need not resort to such ends in order to express themselves.
Like I said, the site may be bad, but the underlying idea is sound, in my opinion. Swearing lowers you.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Um... OK. I'm no linguist, but isn't shouting "Oh Pickles!" really the same thing as "Oh s***!"? Granted, the scatological element is absent, but the purpose of the exclamation remains the same. In fact, I'd probably argue that shouting "Oh Pickles!" mars the word "Pickle" by using it in such an absurd and illogical way.
I'm a linguist, and I'd say that they're definitely not the same thing. What gives taboo words their potency is not merely the literal meaning (the locution) or the intent behind the utterance (the illocution), but the reaction generated in others who hear the utterance (the perlocution). Steven Pinker, a psychologist at Harvard, has a really great chapter in taboo words in his book The Stuff of Thought. I highly recommend it (though it is, of course, chock full of some pretty offensive language).
Posted by Vyrus (Member # 10525) on :
I really do appreciate a middle school student trying to do something he believes in. It may be a small gesture, but it's a smart one. I just wish they didn't have to be so darn obnoxious about it.
Like for instance when they said this:
Terrible Time at Target
One of our members went Christmas shopping at a local Target store with his two young daughters, 5 and 7 years old. As they entered the store, the man could hardly believe what he saw. There was another family entering the store in front of them; a father, mother and their daughter (about 4 years old). The father was wearing a black T-shirt with 4 large, white letters printed shoulder-to-shoulder on the back; F_ _ _! Yes, the “F” word!
Guess he was just exercising his “freedom of speech”?
Uh...yeah...actually, he was. I personally wouldn't express "vulgarity" this openly, but this man most certainly has the right to do so.
I do think, however, that people should use discretion, such as appropriateness of the circumstances. For instance, every other word of this post is not "Pickles", because to do so would be highly unnecessary and not befitting of the situation.
And, I'm sorry, but that is a TERRIBLY ugly website-my eyes are still burning.
So, on a random note, just what is a mammering toad-spotted bum-bailey?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
When I was a kid in Christian school, there was a big deal made about cussing. I didn't cuss. (Not for years and years, until my husband goaded me into the occasional "mouth-filling oath.") In any case, the kids came up with code words to use in place of curse words. The only one i remember now was "soufflé" which was a substitute for the s word.
It was kind of gross.
Anyway, one day I was frustrated in class, and I said, "Darn it! I'm never going to get this right."
The teacher said, "Olivet! Watch your language! That is just as bad as saying the other."
This was patently untrue, in my experience, so I said, "No, it isn't. If someone says 'darn' you say, 'that's as bad as the other' but if someone says 'damn' they get sent to the principal's office."
She said, "Go to the Principal's office."
I considered it a moral victory.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:I really do appreciate a middle school student trying to do something he believes in. It may be a small gesture, but it's a smart one. I just wish they didn't have to be so darn obnoxious about it.
Like for instance when they said this:
Terrible Time at Target
One of our members went Christmas shopping at a local Target store with his two young daughters, 5 and 7 years old. As they entered the store, the man could hardly believe what he saw. There was another family entering the store in front of them; a father, mother and their daughter (about 4 years old). The father was wearing a black T-shirt with 4 large, white letters printed shoulder-to-shoulder on the back; F_ _ _! Yes, the “F” word!
Guess he was just exercising his “freedom of speech”?
How is complaining about a guy wearing a big curse word on his shirt (with his kids around) obnoxious? I'd say that's an entirely appropriate complaint to make...
Freedom of speech applies to the law - meaning that the government can't come in and prohibit your speech. "Freedom of speech" doesn't mean that you can go around saying whatever you want to expect other people to turn a blind eye. If you say highly offensive stuff, or put it on your T-shirt, you can expect people to be upset with you.
Posted by Vyrus (Member # 10525) on :
In the context, that complaint was appropriate. But they have so many others that are exaggerations. And they phrased the last sentence in such a way, quotation marks included, it was almost as if they were implying that he shouldn't be allowed to express his "freedom of speech". That is obnoxious.
People should absolutely teach their children tact, couth, etc.
But at the point where you think their should be interference if people take their expression too far-at that point you're wrong.
I heavily believe in freedom of speech, even in the most literal context. I also think anyone who takes it past a socially acceptable point should accept the implications that come along with it, as what this man did was inappropriate situationally.
Perhaps it was a hyperbole on their part, and I read too far into it, but I don't think so.
I've always had this theory that I'm a conspiracist.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Yes, my reaction to kids I'm with if they witness or mention others being nasty or uncouth is to say something to the effect of, "Yes, I see that. That's really ugly, isn't it? I'm so glad we don't act that way, aren't you?"
In other words, you can't prevent other people from doing vulgar things if they choose to, but thank goodness we're not like that.
If you try to teach a child to monitor and correct everyone in the world's taste or morals, they'll have to give it up, because it's impossible to do. It's plenty hard enough for each of us to manage our own, I think.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: When I was a kid in Christian school, there was a big deal made about cussing. I didn't cuss. (Not for years and years, until my husband goaded me into the occasional "mouth-filling oath.") In any case, the kids came up with code words to use in place of curse words. The only one i remember now was "soufflé" which was a substitute for the s word.
It was kind of gross.
Anyway, one day I was frustrated in class, and I said, "Darn it! I'm never going to get this right."
The teacher said, "Olivet! Watch your language! That is just as bad as saying the other."
This was patently untrue, in my experience, so I said, "No, it isn't. If someone says 'darn' you say, 'that's as bad as the other' but if someone says 'damn' they get sent to the principal's office."
She said, "Go to the Principal's office."
I considered it a moral victory.
I really, really hope my kids are this awesome.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: F_ _ _! Yes, the “F” word!
I can never understand why people who are against swearing use ----, **** or 'the - word' as euphemisms, simply because my mind automatically translates these to the real word. So I hear it in my head anyway. Pointless.
It reminds me of Battlestar's 'frak' or Father Ted where they usually used the Irish translation of swear words (one letter difference). It translates to the same thing, but gets by the censors.
And of course, then you have to decide what is actually profanity, and in what context. A very polite American cousin of mine surprised my mother the other day by referring to his kids affectionately as 'little buggers'. The author Bill Bryson has some anecdotes in his book 'Mother Tongue' about a dinner party where he mentioned his wife's 'fanny' in front of English guests. A lot of people use foreign words (non-shocking out of cultural context) not realising how this can come across to someone from that cultural background. I remember hearing the odd 'merde' and 'bloody' on Star Trek once or twice when I was little and being surprised that that usually squeaky clean 80s TV show had been able to go there. To six-year-old me, those were shocking words.
Personally, I don't swear much but I don't care if other people do. In much the way I don't smoke, but don't mind smokers. In the context of extreme anger, misery or frustration, I find such words can be extremely powerful, so I save them for those times - for when there is no other word that will do. Although I have been known to use some really filthy Latin insults on occasion. On the basis that nearly everyone who would be shocked is guaranteed to have been dead for at least 1500 years.
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