This is topic Did anyone else here use to not be that great at reading when they first started? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
When I first started to read books I didn't understand anything that I was reading. I read the text and I got some things out of what I was reading but I really didn't understand what I was reading that well. It wasn't until I learned how to read carefully that I began to get the full enjoyment out of reading novels. Does anyone else have a similar experience? I wasn't a thorough reader until I read about 5 novels.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Seriously?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I think all stories depend on context as well as vocabulary for your understanding of them. That (well, and attention span) are why we start out reading very simple, three-words-a-page stories to little ones, then get more and more complex in the books we read them, as their ability to understand the story increases. I don't specifically remember experiencing what you did, but I have experienced reading a book at different stages in my life and, with increased context and perspective, getting more out of it each time. (Or, in a few cases, less.)
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:Does anyone else have a similar experience?
Yep. I still don't get most poetry. And for dense prose, I have to slow way down and talk myself through it, and ask myself questions like, "Okay, so what's going on here?" And start paragraphs over again. I've been reading for a while now. If it's something that matters, I figure that it's not race, and I should take the time to get it right, even if it takes me a while.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Graff, I have to ask: how old are you?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Why? Age confers neither knowlege nor wisdom.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I can't remember if I had trouble reading when I first started. I'm assuming I did. I'll have to call my mom and ask her.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
When I first started reading books I was...3? I understood Sesame Street and The Berenstein Bears. Not much else. Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Sure, I used to be bad at reading. But only because there seems to be a nerdy stigma attached to reading. See, I prefer to watch the same junk shows over and over when I could be reading a really good book.
Is that what you're looking for?
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
I couldn't read at all, really, until mid-way through second grade when a light clicked and suddenly I got it. By the end of the year I was testing at a fifth grade reading level. Prior to that I was recognizing some words via rote memorization, but wasn't able to connect them in a reasonable fashion.
Turns out I'm dyslexic, but wasn't diagnosed until college - as best I can tell, I don't read phonetically, or by letter recognition, but by recognizing the shape or general outline of whole words. I still mix up letters (especially m & b) when typing or writing longhand on occasion.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
I never had that experience... I always read books that were at my reading level and then gradually worked my way up to a higher level. Occasionally I stretched myself and read a book higher than my reading level, and then I would have trouble understanding things, but generally I could always understand what I was reading.
I'm also curious as to how old you are...(not in a condescending way, I just want to know.) Your post is strange because I think most people here have been reading since they learned how, and didn't exactly begin with novels.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Age confers neither knowledge nor wisdom.
It sure has for me.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
It's not the age, it's the experience. If you'd spent those years in a coma, do you think you'd have the same knowledge and/or wisdom?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I remember being in the library with a couple of my friends, probably in 4th or 5th grade, and pointing to the paperback racks in the YA section, and telling them, "I've read most of those." And I wasn't kidding.
I was the only kid in my 2nd grade class that got to check out books from the 3rd and 4th grade shelves at school. Not even the bossy girl got to do that, even though she begged the teacher.
But I don't have good reading comprehension. I have to concentrate and read slowly to even see all the words. I much prefer to glance at a paragraph and get the gist of it, then move on. If I have to study it I'll go through word by word and come up with all sorts of strange interpretations that never have anything to do with what everyone else is seeing in the text.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Col. Graff, you never read the same good book twice. Each time you read it, if it is a good book, its changed.
Well, you've changed. How you read and what you take from the story will change as you grow. Reading, and writing for that matter, if done well, is not the solitary experience some claim. It is a dialogue between what the writer has to say and what the reader is willing to hear. As you grow and mature in your reading skills and your life, what you are willing to work for out of that book grows, or changes, as well.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: It's not the age, it's the experience. If you'd spent those years in a coma, do you think you'd have the same knowledge and/or wisdom?
If I had spent that time doing anything other than what I did, I would not have the same knowledge and/or wisdom.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Sorry - same "amount" or even anything close to it.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: It's not the age, it's the experience. If you'd spent those years in a coma, do you think you'd have the same knowledge and/or wisdom?
But it does take time to translate all that experience into useful knowledge and wisdom. Evolving responsibilities temper past experiences as well. Seeing things from new perspectives. Changing hormones. Health issues. Being raised by your children, and raising them. Those come with age. I know I'm a much different reader than I was even in my 20s. Some stuff I had no patience for 10 or 15 years ago means a lot more to me now. Some stuff I enjoyed then I can hardly stand now. A lot of that change is due to experience--my whole life is much different than it was in my early and mid 20s. But some of it I know is due to aging and maturing, kind of like the way I like onions a lot more than I ever did as a child, but can barely stand to eat candy anymore.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Since nobody is suggesting that Graff was in a coma for years, I don't see how this line of questioning is really applicable to the question at hand.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Age confers neither knowledge nor wisdom.
It sure has for me.
I was going to say the same. It's a nice aphorism, but really, it's wrong in practical application.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Since nobody is suggesting that Graff was in a coma for years, I don't see how this line of questioning is really applicable to the question at hand.
The point is that age alone does not confer wisdom. Experiences, particularly varied experiences count for a lot. There's a reason why there's general ed requirements for most liberal arts colleges. There's a reason why traveling is important. There's a reason why going to different cultural events is important.
If you spend your life as a hermit in a small town in the middle of nowhere, and avoid interacting with others or reading much or even thinking (deeply) much, you aren't going to have as much knowledge or wisdom at the end of your life as many younger people have.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tara: I never had that experience... I always read books that were at my reading level and then gradually worked my way up to a higher level. Occasionally I stretched myself and read a book higher than my reading level, and then I would have trouble understanding things, but generally I could always understand what I was reading.
I think on Hatrack there is a slight tendency to make these proclamations about how we were all above our level, or bored in school, or that somehow the norms never applied to us in intellectual subjects like reading. It may actually be so- I have no way of knowing, but I think Hatrackers also toot their own horns a fair bit because they feel it's acceptable to do so, because so many people around here are very smart and understanding. I for one, did read above my grade level, but that is not to say that I understood what I was reading- I just thought that I would be smarter if I read more difficult books. In reality though, the books I really enjoyed and got through with comprehension were the ones aimed at my age range.
I would say the only advantage I gained in reading difficult books at a young age was some awareness of vocabulary and construction that was not being used in simpler books, which helped me ease into more difficult reading in my college years. I would ask my parents to explain concepts and words I didn't really need to know, but the habit became so ingrained, that today I compulsively look up every word I encounter. I got enough ahead of the curve with PSAT prep classes (which include a ton of vocabulary) to have a much easier time studying topics like literary criticism, where many other students had trouble just parsing the language of the texts. I also look up complex words I already know, if I am using them again, just to be sure that the meaning and the context are right. The biggest advantage though, really, was having parents with a high level of education who could actually engage with me on topics and words I encountered in the books. I also think I was motivated to impress them and live up to their expectations, which drove me to read more. That's obviously the most important factor- I had an environment as a child that valued reading and intellectual accomplishment.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Why? Age confers neither knowlege nor wisdom.
Are you serious?
Age isn't everything, but it is a reasonable question when talking about reading experiences. Not everyone matures at the same rate, but the brain operates differently as it matures, and THAT most DEFIANTLY does affect verbal skills and reading comprehention.
How many 4 year olds do higher level math? Age may not automatically grant wisdom or knowledge, but good luck getting either while going through puberty. Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Nope. I learned to read from Tolstoy in the original Russian. It's true that my parents though I was a little slow for a three-year-old, but a year of remedial Ibsen in Croatian translation got me up to speed.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Nope. I learned to read from Tolstoy in the original Russian.
Wow! How much did your parents have to pay him to tutor you?
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
tootletoottoottoot
I've always been a good reader, Colonel Graff, so I haven't had the experience you describe...but I've seen many students have that experience.
Just like most things people do for pleasure, there's a learning curve. Once you get to the point on the curve where the pleasure derived from reading exceeds the difficulty of reading the text--well, then you become a reader. The great thing is that the more you read the better you'll get at it, and the more enjoyable it'll get because you won't have to be aware of reading "carefully"--you'll just be reading. (Until you're reading something out of your comfort zone, like Irami described...then you'll have to go back to working at it for that particular text.)
And THIS is why (going back to your earlier thread about why people don't read) I get mildly annoyed when people who think of themselves as readers are even slightly dismissive of entire genres (romance novels & series books were the two that came up earlier). For someone to become a reader, they have to ENJOY the story so that it becomes pleasure rather than work. Many, many, many people become readers because of those two genres. Think of it as a gateway drug. Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Nope. I learned to read from Tolstoy in the original Russian.
Wow! How much did your parents have to pay him to tutor you?
Less than you'd think. Not many jobs available in Norway for people whose only ID is an internal passport from Czarist Russia, dated 1851.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Nope. I learned to read from Tolstoy in the original Russian.
Wow! How much did your parents have to pay him to tutor you?
Less than you'd think. Not many jobs available in Norway for people whose only ID is an internal passport from Czarist Russia, dated 1851.
::nods:: That makes sense. I understand that he tried to use a signed copy of of Anna Karenina as proof of identity for a while, but that it really didn't go very well for him.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: It's not the age, it's the experience. If you'd spent those years in a coma, do you think you'd have the same knowledge and/or wisdom?
...I'm sorry, it's neither.
What I have in mind when I say this is my very smart, very wise twenty-year old friend who was killed by a thirty-nine year old drunk driver who had been arrested for DWI multiple times and was driving without a license when he hit her on her bicycle on the sidewalk.
Some younger people distill wisdom from what life has given them early. And some older people aren't worth a damn thing no matter how old they get or how many experiences they have.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I strpngly disagree with you. I can't even begin to say how strongly, and the VAST majority of people have experiences that verify it...as do educators.
Experience doesn't always equal wisdom...we ALL know people who are proof of that....but I don't think many 2 year olds are very wise.
Experience and age are seasonings. If you cooking sucks spices will probably only make it worse. However, if it is average, seasoning can make it amazing.
I know a LOT of young, brilliant people. I don't thin it is coincidence that none of them are very wise. They simply haven't had the real life experiences to teach them the difference between intelligence and wisdom....or even the differences between book learning and on the job experience. Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
When i first started to read i couldn't understand what was going on and i wasn't to good at it either. It wasn't until my brother got sick of explaining what was going on in Final fantasy games that i took a real intrest in it, it took me some time though.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I started to read long before I remember anything. Apparently it was sometime after my first birthday. I have no recollection of what it was like not to be able to read since it happened so incredibly early.
blah blah blah. toot toot goes the horn.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I strpngly disagree with you. I can't even begin to say how strongly, and the VAST majority of people have experiences that verify it...as do educators.
Experience doesn't always equal wisdom...we ALL know people who are proof of that....but I don't think many 2 year olds are very wise.
Experience and age are seasonings. If you cooking sucks spices will probably only make it worse. However, if it is average, seasoning can make it amazing.
I know a LOT of young, brilliant people. I don't thin it is coincidence that none of them are very wise. They simply haven't had the real life experiences to teach them the difference between intelligence and wisdom....or even the differences between book learning and on the job experience.
A two year old doesn't have the capacity for resolving input. Neither does an eighty-year-old with advanced Alzheimer's. Their physical attributes deny them; that's not a good way of defining wisdom or its lack for the greater mass of humanity.
I will not deny that age and experience can play a role in the development of wisdom, but I must quite firmly state that there are twenty year olds who are wise, and eighty year olds who will never be, even if they live another eighty years. And that there may even be young people who become wise in very limiting circumstances, and older people who travel the world and meet a great variety of people and still be shallow and foolish on their deathbeds.
Likewise, there are twenty-somethings who are adept at using- not the way they've learned from books- but the way they approach problems to overcome new and unexpected challenges, and fifty-somethings who come upon new technology, new ideas, and new ways of doing things and simply balk.
If one lives long enough, there is, of course, a better chance that experiences will penetrate that give one the qualities describable as "wisdom".
But if you don't know any wise young people, I'm inclined to suggest that either you're hanging around with the wrong ones, or you're not seeing what you don't expect to see.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
A lot of kids have this problem. I think it just comes from jumping too high up too soon with little basis to stand on. Challenging yourself like this with anything you will require it takes more effort all at once, rather than coming "effortlessly".
Try reading any writing on a subject you do not understand. Reading at your normal speed, you will get very little out of the text. It's only with careful examination of the text that you will understand it.
That said, I think a lot of kids go through a lightbulb period with reading where they go from stumbling their way through books to reading fluently and understanding most of what they read. I think it's easier to make this lightbulb go on earlier in life, though, where the books are simpler and the demands are lower.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don;t hang wiht many of them....and we probably have a different definition of young.
I never said age was the only factor. But most of the "wisdom: younger people find pales in compareson to the wisdom of people with half a lifetime of experiences behind them.
If you don't see that, perhaps you need to find a better class of "older" people to hang with, or you need to reexamine the ones you know.
(We really seem to be disagreeing about a matter of degree rather than completely disagreeing. )
God knows I know quite a few people who haven't improved with age at all....but it is pretty hard for most young people (or people in general) to realize some of life's tougher lessons wihtout experiencing them first hand.
All other things being fairly even, age and experience DOES factor in fairly heavily. At least in my experience.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Specifically, with regards to this topic...a lot of kids have the technical skills to read at a higher level than their actual comprehention level. Just because they have mastered their grade level vocabulary doesn't mean they understand all the ramifications of the topic in question. They may miss the subtext, or take quotes out of context....just as two quick possibilities.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Kwea, out of curiosity, are you posting drunk or are you just not proof reading your posts for typographical mistakes? I am not trying to be disparaging, but it's funny that you chose this thread on literacy, of all things, to say "I strpngly disagree" and to write "wisdom: "wihtout" and "compareson."
Whenever I post drunk on Hatrack (not that often) I go over my posts for errors, but usually end up just rambling on about things.
Posted by Colonel Graff (Member # 11872) on :
Thanks for all of the advice. I guess what I read may have been a little bit too advanced for me. There have been times in my life where I have felt that since I read this book, or I read that other book, that I felt was complicated, that I could read any kind of book. I think the books that I had trouble with were outside my comfort zone... since I've started to read more seriously I've started to reflect on when how I was younger it took me months to read one book and how difficult it was for me to understand it.
Could it have been since I wasn't developed enough that I didn't understand the text, or that I did too inferring?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've always been good with reading and language. I was speaking in complete sentences before I was 15 months old, never had trouble reading, and had a college grade reading level before I got out of elementary school.
But I was way, way behind most of the other kids in math. That disparity never really went away until late in high school. On state level tests I'd always score in the 95+ percentile in English and reading, but below average in math. It wasn't until high school that my math scores leveled out around average. A couple of lights clicked on for me and I got some things that never made sense before. I assume that I'm probably well below the Hatrack average math intelligence level (call it the HAMIL for short). I haven't taken a math class since my junior year of high school, and don't plan on taking one ever again.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Did anyone else have trouble walking when they first started out? I used to fall down, all the time, and I couldn't get up very much speed. After a few days, though, I was fine.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Did anyone else have trouble walking when they first started out? I used to fall down, all the time, and I couldn't get up very much speed. After a few days, though, I was fine.
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Age may not automatically grant wisdom or knowledge, but good luck getting either while going through puberty. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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