1. By his very nature, a character like the Flash doesn't work so well in a grim and gritty Dark Knight kind of take. Better suited to a brighter, funner Iron Man type tone. But it sounds like they plan to recast every DC hero in the Nolanverse mold. What works for Batman doesn't necessarily work for every character.
2. Oh, man. Please don't choose Mark Millar's Superman pitch. -Please- Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I don't really want to watch a gritty Flash. To me he is supposed to be a smarmy, cocky, but comedic kind of super hero.
I'm glad they took a dark emphasis on Batman. But I don't think coloring every hero with shades of black and trying to make us see lots of grey all the time will be good for movies.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The Flash is mostly about how super-speed is a really, really cool power. The Flash is the antithesis of Spider-Man...he revels in his powers, instead of being neurotic about the "great responsibility" thing.
Wonder Woman can be used for darker stories...but on the whole, she's a more hopeful, upbeat character. She's the greatest warrior on Earth, but she genuinely believes in peace, love, and understanding.
Green Lantern Hal Jordan can be used in both darker and brighter stories, but he's also innately a more upbeat character than Batman.
The better Superman stories can have scenes of intense darkness (see Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, For the Man Who Has Everything, Kingdom Come, Whatever Happened to Truth, Justice, and the American Way?, etc) but on the whole his stories then go for a positive, happy ending.
[ August 24, 2008, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
The key to a good Superman story is the understanding that Superman can do pretty much anything, so the drama must come from his lack of omniscience. Superman vs. an unknown killer, or Superman vs. a dread disease, are much more interesting than Superman vs. some strong guy who, to be beaten, requires that Superman try harder. The alternative is to keep depowering him, which is lame the second time it happens.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I kind of like the stories that demonstrate that if Superman ever did fully utilize his vast powers to their logical conclusion, he'd be far more monstrous than most of his foes.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Heck, even to their illogical conclusion. The guy can manufacture diamonds in his fists; how much self-control must it take to pick up an egg without breaking it? What's the difference between Clark Kent trying and failing to deliver a firm handshake and crushing someone's hand into dust?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That is what has always fascinated me about Superman. He has such powers; how much control it must take to live in a way that almost no one ever notices Clark Kent can do these things...
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Being dawk doesn't make a movie good. What makes a movie good is them taking every effort to make a movie that doesn't suck! That's the real thing that made Dark Knight so good. They worked hard on it. Not that folks who make Batman and Robin don't work hard, but they really need someone to prewatch these movies and say, NO, You will NOT use corny dialogue like that. Bad director! It's swarmy, stupid, corny, condescending with no respect for the audience, cut it out.
Now that would be an interesting Superman story. Him trying to control his incredible powers to live in an ordinary world. That's stuff I didn't even consider, and it would be interesting.
That's what made Dark Knight, and maybe the first 2 spiderman movies good. Balancing the superhero aspect with the aspect that has to be a regular person. Or in Bruce Wayne's case, has to pretend to be a spoiled lazy rich kid instead of masked vigilante Batman. They just did a good job on Dark Knight on so many levels, so many touches that just made me like it so much. Those are the sort of notes they should be taking and they should NOT do what Batman and Robin or Batman Forever or Superman 4 did.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
quote: Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.' DC properties. "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well.
The evil side of Superman? Are they serious?
I just want him to not be the Messiah or a creepy stalker next time around. And more of Lois's fiancee would be nice. I thought Marsden's character was more of a hero than Superman, really.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Reading the article, they're scrapping the planned Returns sequel and doing a complete reboot, similar to what Marvel Studios did with the Hulk.
I hope that like The Incredible Hulk, they get past the entire origin in a few minutes.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
There's gonna be a giant spider, I just know it...
I've always thought the best Superman was the one that stayed true to his roots. His adopted roots, the kind couple that raised him with unshakeable principles that lent direction to his life.
Singer obsessed on Supes being the last Kryptonian, horribly lonely, desperate for knowledge of his parents, and apparently utterly self-absorbed. You know what Bryan? We didn't care. Your deadbeat dad, world-abandoning Superman did not have the audience on his side.
Elliot S! Maggin wrote two Superman novels, using the all-powerful Superman even, and made them compelling (and Lisa has perked her ears forward by now) by establishing that whatever his abilities, Clark is a good man raised by good people. One quote:
"He knew that he was Kal-El of Krypton, the son of Jor-El, and possibly the finest specimen of humanity in the galaxy. He had broken the time barrier, he could speak every known language on Earth, living and dead. He had been born among the stars and could live among them now if he so chose. He had more knowledge in his mind and more diverse experience to his credit than any Earthman alive could ever aspire to."
Yet he stood at the deathbed of this elderly, generous man whose last Earthly concern was his adopted son's happiness. Superboy listened, because he believed Jonathan Kent to be wiser than he."
Superman is who he is not because he has powers, but because he cannot conceive of not helping others. He is the most powerful of all the heroes, but he treats everyone equally and honestly respects everyone he meets who isn't actually committing a crime. He's a good man.
Also? Let's have another bad guy. I love Hackman and Spacey, but out of five Superman movies Lex has been in four of them. Give the guy a rest, already.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Brainiac, Darkseid, Mongul, somebody other than Luthor.
Well...maybe not the Prankster or Toyman.
Elliot S! Maggin and Alan Moore wrote the definitive post-Silver Age Superman stories.
Heck, Maggin made Krypto's origin story into compelling stuff!
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I'll make it easy for Warner Brothers. I'll tell you how to make a great superhero movie.
- Find a director who loves the character.
- If the character has a long history, find a director who loves the version of the character most true to the core of the character.
- If the director tells you that he really wants to do something different with the character, toss him back and get another one.
- Once you have a director you trust, leave him alone.
- The director should find writers who share his love for the character.
- The writers need to tell the hero's story, but here's the thing: they should not try to cram in anything that violates the character or ignores the history entirely. They also should not give the fans what the fans want. Instead, they should give the fans more than the fans ever expected to get.
When you have a single person driving the project from love of the character and the character's story, you get Superman I and II, Batman Begins, X-Men I and II, Spider-Man I and II, Iron Man.
When the movie is made by committee or the single person doesn't understand what makes the hero great, you get Superman III, X-Men III, Spider-Man III, Daredevil.
When the single person wants to use the hero to express a personal issue or movie-making experiment, you get Superman IV, The Hulk, Superman Returns.
Fans do not go into the theater wanting to hate the movie. They want to be amazed. They want it to be better than they could have dreamed of. They'll forgive some changes (organic webshooters, anyone?) as long as they get a hero they recognize on the screen. The more they find themselves saying "But he wouldn't do that..." the less they will enjoy your movie. Simple as that.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I'll make it easy for Warner Brothers. I'll tell you how to make a great superhero movie.
Don't forget
- Get Brad Bird involved. The Incredibles one of the best super-hero team films ever made, and The Iron Giant is the finest Superman movie not actually starring Superman.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Heck, even to their illogical conclusion. The guy can manufacture diamonds in his fists; how much self-control must it take to pick up an egg without breaking it? What's the difference between Clark Kent trying and failing to deliver a firm handshake and crushing someone's hand into dust?
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: That is what has always fascinated me about Superman. He has such powers; how much control it must take to live in a way that almost no one ever notices Clark Kent can do these things...
That's why I love this scene so much.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Based on the premise that superheroes are real people grappling with their own problems, "Watchmen" is an apocalyptic vision of their world. Fox says it is seeking an injunction to enforce its copyright interest in the film.
Grr... Mfghhh... Would someone just... Take Rupert Murdoch and... [TOS] Give him a hug? [/TOS]
Someone in WB is not remembering their history very well. Remember the last time Flash tried to do Batman? The TV program? Right down to the "I'll make my logo out of the moon" thing?... That was painful.
My own contribution to the "how to do a superhero right" list would be: you're going to have a lot of action, you need to do the non-action scenes with the hand of a surgeon and the mind of an artist. You must be able to tell the audience a lot about a character in a short time without beating them over the head, insulting their intelligence, or wearying them with talky plot exposition. Pyro looking at the photos of Iceman's family in X-Men 2, or Bruce Wayne's "traffic accident" in Dark Knight, or Stark's one-liner in Iron Man when Pepper discovers him in the armor- these scenes are short, but they tell us more about the characters and their interrelations than any given half-hour of, say, The Fantastic Four.
Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: 2. Oh, man. Please don't choose Mark Millar's Superman pitch. -Please-
Do you mean Red Son?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
No. Red Son is an out-of-continuity graphic novel he wrote years ago. I'm talking about his wrong-headed, Michael Bay-esque pitch for a rebooted Superman film franchise. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: No. Red Son is an out-of-continuity graphic novel he wrote years ago. I'm talking about his wrong-headed, Michael Bay-esque pitch for a rebooted Superman film franchise.
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)