• Wait until after the credits are done. There's one more scene...
• I'd rank this as a better "first film in a potential series" than either X-Men or Spider-Man...and this is coming for someone who isn't a very big Iron Man fan.

quote:

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Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
Just got back from an one of the "day early" screenings.

I'll post in-depth thoughts later, but for now:

• Wait until after the credits are done. There's one more scene...
• I'd rank this as a better "first film in a potential series" than either X-Men or Spider-Man...and this is coming for someone who isn't a very big Iron Man fan.

---

Can't wait! Maybe I can see it tomorrow with the guys...
 

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Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'll be seeing it Saturday, come hell or high water...

... or an extended stay at the comic book store, especially since it is Free Comic Book Day.
 

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Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I just spoiled myself for the scene at the end of the movie - and I cannot wait to see it. So cool!
 

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Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
 
Awesome movie, I love Stark's attitude. Was he like that in the comics? (I'll admit I've never read a single comic book in my life, all my knowledge is second-hand)

I do wish there were some more terrorist hunting scenes.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
He has been like that in the comics, depending on who was writing him.

I had the feeling he wasn't specifically hunting terrorists. More like stopping the assault and ruining the weapons.
 

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Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
 
Well, I meant hunting terrorists that had his weapons.
 

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Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Okay, I caved and saw it today. I only have one word:

AMAZING.

(About seven people stayed through the credits, and that scene - when the eyepatch is revealed - got more applause from so few of us than any other point during the movie. )
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
The earliest days of the Iron Man comic were rabidly anti-communist...many (if not most) of his earliest villains were of that stripe.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
The last scene you're referring to, Carrie, was hysterically funny to me precisely because so many people in the theater today stayed to see it, just in case. And I get the feeling many, many of them were not actually comic book readers, because the first thing I heard, whispered from someone behind me, was "is that Morpheus?"

On the way out of the theater, several people were whispering to each other -- after hearing the shouting, spontaneous nerdgasm enjoyed by those of us who got the reference -- "Who's Nick Fury? What's an Avenger?"

One guy was trying to explain it to his girlfriend. "Well, there's a lot of weird continuity, but Iron Man is kind of, like, the leader of the Avengers and the leader of SHIELD nowadays, but the Avengers don't actually work directly for SHIELD, necessarily, but..."

----------

Spider-Man and Iron Man have always been my two favorite Marvel characters (which is part of why Civil War was so painful for me, and why Card's decision to depict the young Tony Stark as a bio-engineered, superpowered mutant instead of just a human super-genius was so grating). I'd say Toby Maguire did an okay job of capturing Peter Parker; Downey, however, managed to absolutely embody Stark.
 

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Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 
This is simple the best Superhero movie i have ever seen, i just got back.

Ok, is anyone out there that i can go into comic book mode with? ok, here i go anyway.*just so you know, no spoilers will be spared.*

OK first off i thought that taking the ten rings as a terrioist group was awesome, since most people would think that mandarin on a power trip would make a stupid movie. I was wondering the whole time though if that guy was mandarin(i mean the leader of terrorists) or if just some guy.

Next, i thought that the man playing in what i see as the sentiant armor, was almost a let down, then i realised no one would buy the A.I. bit. Yet i also thought the "unmaned flight speach" was a clue in to the fact that the sentiant armor was coming! But, maybe they took that out once they started filming.

Also, i can't beilive i didn't catch on to the S.H.I.E.L.D. quicker, also Nick Fury at the end was awesome(although i thought samuel jackson playing him was stupid, i was hoping for Dusin Hoffman personally, scoff at me all you want.) I can't wait for an Avengers movie. but if Cap, Vision, Thor, or Hawkeye are missing i will be dissappointed.

Oh yeah, my friend thought Stan lee really was Hugh Hefner... nub.

[ May 02, 2008, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Xann. ]
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Fuller thoughts:

• Downey was the perfect Tony Stark.
• I loved that there were plenty of references to the Mandarin, even though we never actually got to see him. "The Ten Rings" indeed. Set-up for movie #2.
• The banter between Downey and Paltrow was perfect...and a vast improvement over the relationship Stark and Potts had in the Silver Age.
• Nice tease about eventually having War Machine turn up.
• The secret-but-everyone-knew-about-it Nick Fury cameo was great. The promise of the Avengers movie was even better. Here's hoping Cap and Thor's films come out soon.
• I liked that there was more focus on character than on action. What used to be the defining trait of a Marvel super-hero comic was what happened in the character's non-costumed civilian life was just as important as any of the action stuff. Something the actual Marvel Comics of today should remember.
• The action we did get was SO very sweet.
• Really, the only thing that didn't work for me was having Bridges as Stane/Iron Monger. He seemed like he was from a less...cool movie. This is not a knock against Bridges, just that I feel he was wrong for the role.

quote:

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Originally posted by TomDavidson:
And I get the feeling many, many of them were not actually comic book readers, because the first thing I heard, whispered from someone behind me, was "is that Morpheus?"

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quote:

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Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Norse gods don't belong in the Marvel universe; they're DC-worthy, full of SHAZAM!

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So go back to 1962 and tell Stan Lee and Jack Kirby to go do something scathingly realistic...like another giant monster comic! Or perhaps another appearance by Paste Pot Pete.

(Not even the Walt Simonson run? C'mon now!)
 

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Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Puffy Treat:

[*]Nice tease about eventually having War Machine turn up.
[/list]

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Where did you see that?
Was it the "next time" that starks friends said? or did you find another time?
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Yes, when Rhodey was looking at the silver armor...a reference to both his time in the suit, and his wearing of the silver and black War Machine armor.
 

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Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 
well, i wonder how that might play out in a sequel, if i remember right, mandarin turned one of starks suits intelligence( or am i wrong)that was the sentient armor and he(probably will be they!) fought it, but what about when the armor gives stark his mechanical heart so he could live.

oh, and ten bucks says the sequel will adress stark being an alchohaulic.
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
"because the first thing I heard, whispered from someone behind me, was "is that Morpheus?""

In my movie, as soon as that scene was done, a big black guy stood up, threw his popcorn on the floor, and said "Nick Fury is not black!!! I love Samuel L Jackson...but Nick Fury is not black!!", kicked his popcorn, and stormed out of the theater.

That was the best superhero movie by far, IMO. I wasn't bored for a second.
 

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Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
 
Ultimate Nick Fury was actually based on Samuel L. Jackson...


Edit: Oh, and Xann, stop cheating... wikipedia: "The film's stars have signed on for two sequels, the story of which Favreau has planned to depict Stark's alcoholism, Rhodes becoming War Machine, and the introduction of the villainous Mandarin. Downey also cameos as Stark in the upcoming The Incredible Hulk."
 

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Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
 
I went into this movie with absolutely no knowledge of the Iron Man story (hence, I was one of the ones who didn't get the significance of the post-credits scene - though I knew it was significant from the reactions of people around me)

I almost didn't go see it, because I kept thinking: "This is going to be as stupid and lame as Transformers" (I am part of that .0001% of the population that didn't think Transformers was the height of cinematic and artistic brilliance).

But I went, and the movie exceeded my hopes and expectations in every way. I loved it.
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Transformers is light years behind what Iron Man is. They're both summertime popcorn flicks, but I didn't leave Iron Man feeling annoyed at Anthony Anderson.
 

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Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by JonHecht:
Ultimate Nick Fury was actually based on Samuel L. Jackson...


Edit: Oh, and Xann, stop cheating... wikipedia: "The film's stars have signed on for two sequels, the story of which Favreau has planned to depict Stark's alcoholism, Rhodes becoming War Machine, and the introduction of the villainous Mandarin. Downey also cameos as Stark in the upcoming The Incredible Hulk."

---

hahahah i didn't cheat, but wow, i say that proves i'm quite the comic book nerd.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Only things that stood out for me, none of them enough to take me out of the movie at all:

The soundtrack was kind of forgettable. No Marvel movie has had a theme song that took on its own life a la Superman, and this one just faded into the background for me.

I don't care how much padding the suit had, when the Mark I hit the dune Stark should have been pulped. I'd rather have seen him hit the downward slope of the dune with a trajectory somewhat kinder than straight down.

When Stark is flying a respectable fraction of the speed of sound and suddenly deploys flaps to kill momentum, shouldn't all of his internal organs squished against his ribcage? Obviously pilots can do this sort of thing but rarely so drastically, and they have major amounts of padding.

I was a little let down after Stark told Rhodey to try and keep up, and then we don't see Rhodey again till the very end. I was expecting him, at some point in the fight, to catch up.

For someone running a major corporation, we don't see many people around unless there's a need for a crowd scene. Minor thing.

Even though the script called for it, it seemed a little hokey to put the Iron Monger development in the power supply building we'd already seen. Good thing Stane dragged Tony there for a heart-to-heart earlier, huh, so we'd know what it was.

And hey, why is a massive power supply with easily deactivated fail safes in the freaking glass-fronted lobby?

But that's about it, really.
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 
Yeah, I did think Rhodey was under-utilized. At least they hinted he'd be doing bigger and better things next time around. (May, 2010 if things go as planned!)

Marvel Universe physics. He was protected by a cushion of Pym particals, unstable molecules, and Kirby dots!

Downey's eyes should win an Oscar. His expressions alone make Stark a much deeper character than he would be otherwise.

Since no one's mentioned it, Stan Lee's cameo as a certain playboy got a huge laugh from the audience.
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Was there ever a good Iron Man cartoon like they used to have for Spider-Man and the X-Men?
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 

quote:

---

No Marvel movie has had a theme song that took on its own life a la Superman, and this one just faded into the background for me.

---

I like the Spiderman theme. I like it so much, I was disturbed by the Iron Man theme because they were so similar, but for the way a cadence resolved. They all kind of sound like the Siegfried theme to me, which is fine, because I think Wagner got it right.

The ending was just right. In a world where people hide controversial actions, for fear of personal or political fallout, it's good to have Stark say, "I am Iron Man." That move, I think, takes as much courage as putting on the suit.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Second viewing, few more things:

Turns out he didn't tell Rhodey "Try and keep up," although I'm pretty sure I saw that in one of the trailers so I must have gotten them mixed up. He says "Keep the airspace clear." And Rhodey does.

When Stark is confronting Stane on the steps at the benefit the reporter seems to appear and disappear behind him.

When Stark puts the arc generator in his chest, he turns it to the right to lock it. When Stane paralyzes him, he turns it to the right to remove it. And then puts it in the Iron Monger suit and, again, turns it to the right. Apparently Stark Industries has perfected the "righty-tighty righty-loosey" technology.

Stark would definitely have been pulped in several instances of very hard landings.

There's also a weird feeling of time passage that seems to bounce around for me. He seems to get to and from Afghanistan awfully quickly, and so does Stane. No problem with the time making his suits, but the Iron Monger crew seems to have whomped their prototype up in a day or so. And it was amazing how they managed to figure out how to seat and accomodate a power supply they didn't actually have handy.

Fortunately Stane managed to learn how to use his suit immediately. He must play a lot of video games.

Again, lax security and control over the big arc generator. No guards? No security staff? I can understand leaving the big glowy thing out in the open for public relations, but wouldn't the control panels be hidden or on a different, privately accessible level?

That said... I love this movie. Even better the second time around.

[ May 03, 2008, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
He says "try to keep up" earlier, in another context.

-------

The two things that got me, Chris:

1) As you mentioned, the hard landings.
2) As you mentioned, the perfectly-designed socket for the new-model miniaturized Arc Reactor, which they didn't actually have in any form.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
To add to the questions: why was there no man inside with Stark when he built the first armor? How stupid do you have to be to let a man have access to all kinds of military stuff, with the knowledge to build anything possible or impossible, then step outside the room and glance from time to time: "Is it ready yet?"

Anyway, it was a good movie, not as great as you all made me expect though.
 

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Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Bridges:

And hey, why is a massive power supply with easily deactivated fail safes in the freaking glass-fronted lobby?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corwin:
To add to the questions: why was there no man inside with Stark when he built the first armor?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
That move, I think, takes as much courage as putting on the suit.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by TomDavidson:
2) As you mentioned, the perfectly-designed socket for the new-model miniaturized Arc Reactor, which they didn't actually have in any form.

---

Actually, there was a hole for the miniaturized arc reactor in the original armor, which Stane had for analysis. Also, they had the video of when Yinsid (Yensid?? Disney spelled backwards?) put the original arc reactor in Stark.

Stane, knowing he was going to steal the miniaturized arc reactor from Stark, would have told the techs to make the hole identical so he could install it after he stole it.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
The hole, sure. The socket? The coupling?
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Marvel was hoping for a respectable $60 million for the opening weekend. Most forecasters predicted $80-85 million, on the strength of the reviews.

$101 million.

$104 million if you include the Thursday night showings. $204 million if you include overseas ticket sales. 2nd best non-sequel three-day weekend of all time. 10th biggest opening ever, for any movie.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was a success.
 

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Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
 
A great opening, plus the word of mouth will probably keep it strong for a good long while.
 

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Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
 
Saw it yesterday. Loved it. One thing to add--I didn't expect to be laughing as much as I was. RDJ is hilarious.
 

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Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 

quote:

---

Saw it yesterday. Loved it. One thing to add--I didn't expect to be laughing as much as I was. RDJ is hilarious.

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quote:

---

the snarking at the robotic arm

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quote:

---

Tony getting sprayed by the robot arm

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This one was in a trailer, I'm pretty sure.
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
I really enjoyed the movie.
 

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Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
You see him getting sprayed once, without the context of the first spray or his comments to Dummy the rest of the time. You're stretching, bud. I went to see it with a group of 20 guys, and we all laughed a LOT, not just at the 3 jokes in the trailers. I wonder if I can see it again tonight...
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I saw it on Saturday. I saw zero trailers for it, never read the comic book, and saw it with another girl.

I liked it, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't great.

Things I liked:
1. Robert Downey Jr. was fantastic. I adored the title character, and he did a great job with his performance. Good job casting there. He made the movie.
2. Gwyneth Paltrow was fine. Things I liked was that when she was the trusted employee, she was very convincing and very sweet. The knickknack that saved the day was inspired.
3. Suit was awesome - both the rough one and the schmancy one.
4. Final press conference. I fully support him telling everybody he was Iron Man. This is probably part of RDJ's thing, but still - good job in the script.
5. I liked Rhodey. He was great, and I wish we could have seen him more.

Things I didn't like:
1. I knew the bad guy was the bad guy from his first appearance on the screen. Worst of all was the reveal to Stark. Stark doesn't figure it out, it isn't a moment of betrayal, it wasn't a good moment in the script - the bad guy just decided to tell him. For no discernable reason. Without doing anything to protect himself from what Stark would do next. LAME.
2. Speaking of, and then they build a suit in a day? That exactly matches what Stark did? From the remains of the first suit found in the sand? Oh, whatever. DId they even think about that part of the story?
3. The fight between the robots. Unbelievably, Transformers did this better. I was so crazy bored when two mythical suits pretended there was something at stake. I didn't care emotionally about the confrontation because of the blown reveal scene earlier, so this part just DRAGGED.
4. All the setups for the next film. I get that they planned for a sequal, but the lame climax of this movie felt like they should have said To Be Continued at the end of it. You can have movies in a series still have a structure within themselves.
5. Pepper Pots as romantic character. She's an uberconfident and compentent woman until Stark asks her to dance, and then all of a sudden she turns into a 15-year-old who's never been on a date before. It was jarring. What happened to that woman we saw before? Did he spike her drink? Because that would at least provide an explanation for her behavior, and it would give him layers. Evil layers.

I'm glad I went, but the last half of the movie let that amazing cast and suit and effects crew down. Bad director! Bad!
 

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Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 

quote:

---

1. I knew the bad guy was the bad guy from his first appearance on the screen. Worst of all was the reveal to Stark. Stark doesn't figure it out, it isn't a moment of betrayal, it wasn't a good moment in the script - the bad guy just decided to tell him. For no discernable reason. Without doing anything to protect himself from what Stark would do next. LAME.

---

quote:

---

I felt that Pepper was indeed uber-confident in her ability to perform her job,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by katharina:
1. I knew the bad guy was the bad guy from his first appearance on the screen.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dagonee:
I thought they really flubbed the scene where she goes back to the office. She should have walked in like she owned the place and shown no nervousness when Stain showed up. She's Tony Stark's assistant and she wields his authority with ease.

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quote:

---

When Obadiah Stane entered Tony Stark's office, Potts had just finished playing a video that implicated Stane in a conspiracy to murder Stark. His first words were, "What are we going to do about this?" Potts had no way of knowing just how much Stane had heard. Given the circumstances, I'd say she reacted as well as anyone could have.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dagonee:
As Tony's assistant, she's had to run around Stain for years.

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quote:

---

More glaring was her being nervous as she went into the office, though.

---

quote:

---

I think she reacted better than most people would have, but I still think she should have been cooler. As Tony's assistant, she's had to run around Stain for years.

---

In hindsight, yeah, I wish Pepper had acquitted herself better. At the time though, it was a pretty effective way of making Stane more terrifying. And let's not forget, she did accomplish her primary goals of obtaining the incriminating evidence, and getting herself out.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Excellent movie. I know less about Iron Man than any of the recent adaptation movies, but I really liked it, and thought the progression from blueprint to full on Iron Man was fairly smooth considering the time constraints.

I've missed RDJ. He's a great actor. Looking forward to the sequels.
 

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Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 
Ie seemed to me that Pepper was never had all that much formal ocntact with Stane, she ran Starks life, she wasn't even efilliated with his company. Otherwise, wouldn't she know exactly where his office was and already have a key?
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I thought that was Stane's office that she went into? Why would Stane keep his plot to kill Stark on Stark's computer? And why would Stane be suspicious if she's on her boss' computer?
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Tony's office. Stane made a comment about how Tony always keeps the good stuff in his office. I think what Pepper did was sneak into the mainframe, the server, not files on the computer's harddrive.
 

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Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
 
What do the other Marvel heroes think about Tony's new movie?

--Enigmatic
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Yep. It's pretty clearly supposed to be a private network share, not a "ghost drive." What's bizarre about that is that it's incredibly stupid of Stane to put these files on a share, even a private one, that's owned and operated by the technical genius who wrote the operating system -- with the obvious expectation of privacy.

I like to think the screenwriters are smarter than that, and that Stane actually has his personal files on an encrypted folder on his own laptop -- and that Tony's little program simply hacked into Stane's laptop over the corporate LAN and grabbed the items with the tightest security.

What's actually more surprising is that Tony's little USBkey-based search program only popped up a relatively small number of directories. While I can imagine that it went through and selected only those files to which his normal account would not have access (on the assumption that Stane would have put the confidential stuff in just such a directory), I think Stane's pretty clearly the kind of guy who can't avoid either a) creating forty thousand little directories with names like "Important Stuff - 02/20/08" that contain one file and/or b) having one big "private" directory that contains six hundred files, half of which are actually multiple versions of the same file and all of which are named something like "Document 1 - Rev."
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Then how come Stane was suspicious as soon as he walked into the room? He did say something as soon as he walked in that suggested he knew what she was doing.

And why would Stane keep that on the server instead of his own personal computer?

Edit: I posted this before I saw Tom's post,even though my post was 6 minutes after. It was sitting on my screen for a while.
 

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Posted by Ido (Member # 9206) on :
 
Can anyone confirm that when Stark first puts on his mark II armor in the assembly line (the red/gold one), a star of david can be seen at the core of the arc reactor in his chest?

I don't know if I was imagining it, or whether it was really there.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

---

Then how come Stane was suspicious as soon as he walked into the room? He did say something as soon as he walked in that suggested he knew what she was doing.

---

He says something like "Now what are we going to do about this, eh?"

We the audience -- and Pepper -- are supposed to interpret this as typical villain gloating: "Ha! I caught you! Let me be civil for a while before I kill you." But as the scene progresses, it becomes obvious that while he's curious (even suspicious) about her presence there, he doesn't actually know she's doing anything sneaky. In fact, I think at one point he's contemplating sleazily making her a "job" offer.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
At that point, didn't Stane already tell Stark that he was the one trying to freeze him out of the process? And hadn't Stark been working from home for weeks? Why wouldn't Stane be a little curious or suspicious that Stark's personal assistant was in his office at the computer when Stane had just told Stark what he was up to and knew that Stark didn't approve?

Makes sense to me.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
BTW, anyone want to start a pool that predicts War Machine flying high above the Earth in the next movie without encountering icing problems?
 

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Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
 
Well, why would he? As a pilot, Rhodes would be well aware of such difficulties, wouldn't he?
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ido:
Can anyone confirm that when Stark first puts on his mark II armor in the assembly line (the red/gold one), a star of david can be seen at the core of the arc reactor in his chest?

I don't know if I was imagining it, or whether it was really there.

---

I didn't see that.

Welcome to Hatrack.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Somehow, explaining Pepper Pots acting like a 15-year-old who has never been on a date by saying that on the inside, this beautiful, intelligent 30-something woman has the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old who has never been on a date does not make it better.

They danced one dance! They barely swayed! Why was she freaking out? If they did a Mr.-and-Mrs.-Smith-style tango I could understand, but that junior high shuffle wouldn't scandalize my grandmother. Unless Stark was not wearing pants, Pepper was over-reacting in an enormous way. And then he just stands there while she tries to kiss him. The whole scene was awkward and strange.

However, the scene where she put in the new power thing in his chest was excellent.

I'm going back to the drugged idea.

I did like the payoff - where she turns him down for leaving her on the balcony alone. That's exactly what I was thinking when he was marching away from the party.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by katharina:
I did like the payoff - where she turns him down for leaving her on the balcony alone. That's exactly what I was thinking when he was marching away from the party.

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Yeap, me too. That seemed the true her.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
stark has the reputation of sleeping with women he just met.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
And? He didn't just meet Pepper, they've known each other for a long while. She knows how he treats other women and if she thinks he's going to treat her like that I expect she'd be more careful, not more immature.
 

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Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
I thought her response made perfect sense, not because she had "the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old," but because he was her boss, and had been for many years. They had a very well-established dynamic up to that point, one in which they both felt comfortable. Pepper did clearly have something of a long-time crush on Tony, but it was one that she had long since learned to suppress (or least keep hidden).

Now, all of a sudden, Tony finds himself becoming interested in her, and that abruptly shifts the dynamic for both of them. I think it's important that it's not just Pepper who reacts awkwardly- Tony himself is nothing like his usual suave self during both the dance and talk on the balcony. They're good friends entering uncharted waters together, and it seemed perfectly natural to me that neither one of them would really know how to deal with it.

In short: to Pepper Potts, Tony Stark isn't just any guy. And to Tony Stark, Pepper Potts isn't just any woman. They're friends and confidantes with a long history, not to mention what has always been an unequal power dynamic due to their respective jobs. The possibility of a romantic relationship would naturally throw them for a loop.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I think that's what they were going for. The execution doesn't reflect it, however.

A nervous woman is not the same as a nervous girl.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Sorry, that scene worked for me.

She's been with him for years. She's never seen him act anything but casual and predatory with women. And I'm sure she decided right off that she wasn't going to be one of those women, that she was going to make him accept her on her own terms. But I'll bet she's had thoughts about what it would be like, and from the scenes in the beginning of the movie they've been playing a coy little flirting game for some time now.

Apparently Stark has always kept it behind a line. So when he crossed the line without warning, especially after Pepper has had what must have been a traumatic three months, it didn't surprise me at all that she reacted the way she did. She pulled herself together afterwards, but for that one moment we saw her blindsided by something she's told herself she can't have.

It worked for me.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Let me add some emphasis there. For three months she thought he was dead. And the last time she saw him she was haranguing him to go.

And then he came back. And he was different. And he was focused on something. And the way he was acting around her was different, new, scary. And he hadn't resumed his tomcatting ways. And she was off-guard and surprised when he showed up and changed their relationship.

(Also - grown, confident, secure people never act like nervous kids in the right situation? Really?)

I think that one of the things that made this movie so good was that we saw everyone in it break away from their comfortable masks a little. Tony broke his playboy mask enough to become a hero. Pepper broke her all-business enough to reveal something deeper. Rhodey unbent enough to appreciate Tony's methods. Stane just kinda broke. But everyone changed, even if it was only temporarily.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I know what they were going for, but they didn't accomplish it. The script and the words were fine, but the scene is strange and its a combination of Paltrow and the direction. Downey was fine, but he was also largely inert.

I have a good parallel - Mr. and Mrs. Smith did the scene excellently. Two adults, long relationship, and something is changing. They managed to be nervous around each other without giggling like an idiot or suddenly acting like they were at a junior high dance.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 

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Originally posted by katharina:
Downey was fine, but he was also largely inert.

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And, oh! "I thought it would be bigger." WHY?? Stark's suit is his size. Why did she think it would be bigger?

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Originally posted by Xavier:

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And, oh! "I thought it would be bigger." WHY?? Stark's suit is his size. Why did she think it would be bigger?

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Because she knows Stane. He probably drives a Hummer.

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It makes her an emptier character to just be the voice of whatever the writers or fans want to express at any given moment.

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I wouldn't feel too bad for Pepper until you're done mourning Rhodey. It's a terrible burden, playing Dr. Watson.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
The scene worked for me too.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Clearly they got their audience right. Don't worry, men! Express an interest and that cool, collected, beautiful blonde will turn into a giggling pile of mush before your eyes!

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*sigh* That was probably rude. Sorry.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Wow. How could you possibly think that might be rude?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Mostly because every objection I've said has been met with "It was totally real! Women really act like that when they like someone!"
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I think it's true enough that certainly some women act like that, even the ones that are otherwise "strong" and "composed." It's hard for me to say whether this particular take on this particular fictional character is accurate, though.
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Accurate for the postSilverAge Marvel.
The SilverAge died when MaryJane was retconned into a whimpering idiot who always knew PeterParker was SpiderMan, who was always in love with Spiderman (and PeterParker, though probably secondarily). Then came the era of pure unadulterated authorial misogyny for nearly all of the major female supporting characters and all of the superheroines.
Sales tanked.
 

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Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 

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Originally posted by katharina:
Clearly they got their audience right. Don't worry, men! Express an interest and that cool, collected, beautiful blonde will turn into a giggling pile of mush before your eyes!

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*sigh* That was probably rude. Sorry.

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Maybe y'all find a 30-year-old woman acting like a naive idiot believable.

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I found it believable, especially from a control-freak like I'm sure Potts would have to be to clean up after Stark for those years. You can't control another's heart, and that truism has felled many a micro-manager.
 

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Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
aside: It warmed my heart to see Rifftrax as the ad at the bottom of this page.

Katie, I look at it like this: The cliche we were supposed to expect in that scene (they dance, they go outside alone, share an intimate kiss, and so on) didn't quite happen. They are 'real' people who sometimes do things out of, uh, 'character' for their normal selves. We don't get to see what happens to Potts and Stark, how they handle it as Tony gets pulled away right after.
 

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Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
 

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Like paralyzing him while stealing the battery that's keeping Tony's heart alive?

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What's actually more surprising is that Tony's little USB key-based search program only popped up a relatively small number of directories.

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These days I have been playing with a lot of USB drives--particularly for Moka5. I was sure when she left that the computer was going to make that little noise when you pull out a thumb drive without ejecting it.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
unless it had no speakers turned on?

Also Stane is the kind of villain that to me seems like he doesnt like doing dirty deeds with his own hands, it was one thing to nab his PSU he couldnt leave it to chance to others, but popping him in the head would raise questions and have too much risk.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
The speakers were on. We had just heard it do some really fantastic audio, in fact, with real-time language translation and everything. Maybe, since Stark wrote the OS, he set it up so you can remove USB keys all you like without actually alarming the system in any way. Although you'd think he'd consider the "Download 100% Completed" alert to be completely unnecessary.
 

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Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
 
Perhaps the Translate command (it's not a button, Potts actually types out "Translate" and presto!) is actually a command to pull a different audio track that was made for Stane's benefit, since Stane and Raza used English in their meet. That would explain the Middle Eastern accent of the voice providing said translation. Although, it's anyone's guess why Stane would keep such incriminating evidence on the network share.
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
"When villains have the upper hand, why don't they ever just finish the job? Seriously...he just took his heart and walked away? Why not pop him in the head?"

Haven't you ever seen Austin Powers? True villains always give the hero a chance to survive.
 

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Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
 
I certainly enjoyed the movie. There were a few strange moments that could have been more realistic, but nothing I saw as a deal breaker.

I was hoping that the grand finale explosion would end with the awesome electrical charge shot into the sky. I was disappointed when a traditional mammoth fireball followed it up.

Aside from all of the things mentioned about the "Pepper sneaks into the office and downloads secrets" scene, I was annoyed they used the "files transfer really slow" cliche to create suspense. I guess they had to do something, but seriously, I've seen that little progress bar used to create suspense way too many times in my life, and they already used it once earlier in this movie.

I would just like Hollywood to never, ever use the progress bar as a means to create suspense, ever again. Is that too much to ask?
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 

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Originally posted by lem:
These days I have been playing with a lot of USB drives--particularly for Moka5. I was sure when she left that the computer was going to make that little noise when you pull out a thumb drive without ejecting it.

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Hehe, me too. I was really wondering how she'd pull that off.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 

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"When villains have the upper hand, why don't they ever just finish the job? Seriously...he just took his heart and walked away? Why not pop him in the head?"

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Well, seriously, because if he offed the hero, the movie would end there. Realism is something to aim for, but if the bad guy offed the hero every time he had the chance to, most of our stories would end with executed heroes and victorius bad guys, and I doubt the realism would comfort us that much. I guess they could have left the scene out entirely if that would've made you feel better. But frankly I didn't mind it. I think the idea that the big bad is sadistic and arrogant enough to think that he doesn't have to finish off the hero, that he can let him suffer, and that he's already won is pretty plausible.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
Meh, I'm used to bad guys not finishing the job. Looks stupid and at least part of the movies doing it could be modified in order to avoid it without losing anything. I guess it's just easier this way. I'm also used to good guys not finishing the job because of some stupid "sympathy" that will only get them in trouble right after that scene. "Hmm, he wants to kill me, but he's not such a bad guy after all. Let's see what happens if I let him go. Maybe he'll have a change of heart." Uhm, yeah, sure.

:"Shadow Puppets" spoilers:


That why I loved the last scene between Bean and Achilles in "Shadow Puppets". Bean does what needs to be done, no fussing about it.
 

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Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
 
I didn't think the decision not to put a bullet in him was unreasonable - we've sort of accustomed ourselves to the idea that all bad guys are comfortable with offing someone at a moments' notice, when in fact most bad guys would rather have someone else do their dirty work, or find some way to not do it face-to-face.

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but didn't whatsizname paralyze the terrorist, then walk out of the tent and have it all blown up?

It's kind of like Joseph's brothers - they're too squeamish to kill him outright, so they decide they're going to leave him to die in a pit.
 

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Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
 
I have a question about Tony Stark's wholeheart battery. What is it?

Does it act as a power source to pump the heart or just as a power source for a magnet to keep shrapnel from going deeper?

I thought it was just a power source for a magnet, but what's-her-name took out the magnet. Also, if it is just a magnet, why does he get week when it is off but strong when it is on? If it turns off and the shrapnel goes deeper into his body, turning the magnet back on doesn't undo the damage.

If it acts as a heart pump, turning it off or taking it out would kill him pretty quickly.

Plus, don't we have good heart surgeons in America? I don't remember the comic book well enough to remember what that glowing thing on his chest was and the movie left me confused.
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
lem: look at my hands wave and you won't be worried about these concerns any more... <waves hands about wildly>

but yeah, all I got as an explanation in the movie was the electromagnet keeping shrapnel from moving further, but after that they seem to keep acting like it's more of a pacemaker type thing (though they don't actually explain that, just act like it)
 

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Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
 

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That why I loved the last scene between Bean and Achilles in "Shadow Puppets". Bean does what needs to be done, no fussing about it.

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I did too, Corwin.

See also, The Operative in Serenity.
 

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Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
 
Speaking of nit picking. If the terrorists already had a business relationship with Stark's partner and they were hired to kill Stark, why did they need him to make the weapon?

Weren't they already making back room deals?
 

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Posted by Lord Solar Macharius (Member # 7775) on :
 
When they found out they were hired to take out Stark (and not some lesser schlub), they decided that they weren't being paid enough. So while they were negotiating more money, they decided to put him to work. Bonus!
 

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Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
 
The Jericho missile had just been unveiled and, presumably, was not in mass production yet. They wanted to be the first people to get one.

When we see them with Jericho missiles later, a significant amount of time has passed. Now, we can assume, they're in production and on the open market.
 

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Posted by manji (Member # 11600) on :
 
OSC's opinion on Iron Man:

http://greensboro.rhinotimes.com/Articles-i-2008-05-08-178477.112113_Iron_Man_Womens_Socks_and_TinyURL.html
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
I agree with pretty much everything OSC wrote, except that I've never read the comics so I didn't understand quite everything he wrote about.

I just got back, BTW. Saw it tonight.

I do agree the scene after the credits if not worth waiting for is you've never read the comics and have no idea who Nick Fury is or Shield. (In fact, just so you guys can have a laugh, I was trying to figure out the acronym and thought the last word in the list was Association or something, and figured it was called SHIELA - then wondered why the spelling was off.)

At any rate, I did enjoy the movie. My husband, not so much but it's not really a favorite genre of his.

I agree that Downey, Jr. was great in his role. I liked Paltrow. I didn't have a problem with the scene that kat had a problem with. She repeated several times that she worked with all those people. What was bothering her, I think, was that people would construe that she was now sleeping with Stark. As someone who wanted to be accepted on her own terms, as a competent woman - that would bother her. She didn't want to be just another one of Tony's conquests that would need her clothes dry cleaned and a car waiting to take her wherever she wanted to go. And, a potential romance would certainly jeopardize the relationship she had with him - which she treasured, as evident by the "You're all I have too, you know" comment.

She didn't want to risk losing what she had, and she didn't want people to think she was just another Maxim model for Stark. I got it, and it worked for me.

I totally agree with OSC about the brief scene in the jeep with the airmen. That was well handled, and the actors did a fantastic job.
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
It was hilarious and exciting.

I'm not sure what was going through Pepper's mind in the almost kiss scene. One thing I did notice was she was leaning and he wasn't. She was trying to see if he wanted to meet her halfway, and he didn't (because he didn't want to be taking advantage?), and she was having to process the significance of this by the microsecond. I mean, he'd asked her to dance. Who's idea was it to go outside? I don't remember. I know she asks for a drink.

Keep in mind he was in terra incognito for starting a sincere relationship. I read it as mutual awkwardness, or a two-way failure.

My husband commented on the non-mutant appeal as we drove home, but both Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are billionaires. I know most people don't think of money as a mutation, but I'm not so sure it isn't.

[ May 10, 2008, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
 

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Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 

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which is part of why Civil War was so painful for me, and why Card's decision to depict the young Tony Stark as a bio-engineered, superpowered mutant instead of just a human super-genius was so grating

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Clearly they got their audience right. Don't worry, men! Express an interest and that cool, collected, beautiful blonde will turn into a giggling pile of mush before your eyes!

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Maybe y'all find a 30-year-old woman acting like a naive idiot believable. I didn't, and it was one of the weakest parts of the movie

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Thirty-year-old people never act like children? The circles you run in must be filled with formidable, together people...i think i'd be terrified to meet them! She tries very hard not to babble in the scene, and compose herself, and explains that it's not just HIM that is making her nervous, but the scenario. She even asks him to get her a drink, to get him away from her, so she can get a grip.

I thought Chris' summation was the best -- either the character development in this movie was good or it was shoddy, and if it was Good then they naturally took into account what she'd been through with his disappearance and his subsequent 180 with the weapons development AND with how he interacted with her. I'm leaning on the side of good
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I liked the scene, but then again I am just another guy....what would I know.




There are a ton of reasons that a person would be flustered, and most of them have nothing to do with the sex of the person involved. I have personally acted even more flustered than that at times when I was not expecting a romantic comment or action and one happened.

I could see why someone would be worried about what others think about their relationship with their boss in that situation, perhaps BECAUSE of the fact that she is competent and deserves everything she has because of her intelligence, candor and professionalism....and she doesn't want people to take her lightly or think she slept her way to the top.

Particularly when her boss is a notable womanizer...and she may be having real feelings for him.


Or maybe I am just clueless because I am a guy.


I also loved the scene where she told him what was what at the end.....it was good to see her put him in an awkward place for a change.


But I didn't like his announcing his identity right away. It seemed a little out of place for me, but I guess that is because I had always though that he had kept it a secret, at least for a long while.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I thought he kept it a secret for awhile too. Lots of denials, and that Iron Man was actually his bodyguard or somesuch.
 

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Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
I liked it, it was perfectly in-character- at least as defined in the movie. I've never read the comic book, so I have no idea how it played out there. I figure that Stark's thoughts went something like this...

In head: "Oh, I should probably keep it a secret... that is, after all, what superheroes do, right? They have alter egos. Safety in secrecy and all that. Hmm... ah, screw it, I like the attention, and I can't keep a straight face through this crap anyway."

Out loud: "I am Iron Man."
 

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Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
 

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Originally posted by pooka:
microsecond. I mean, he'd asked her to dance
My husband commented on the non-mutant appeal as we drove home, but both Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are billionaires. I know most people don't think of money as a mutation, but I'm not so sure it isn't.

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One plausibility stretcher that no one mentioned before, and was the biggest for me other than the hard impacts that merely stunned Stark: Tony's got some incredible AI running, capable of sarcasm and interpreting his tone of voice, but not of securing his household or warning him of intruders. Both the capabilities of the AI and the severe gaps in its functionality are a stretch for me.

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