Happy premiere day, everyone! I assume there are people watching it online over at scifi.com, but I need the anticipation of tonight to get me through class today.
T-9 hours, 30 minutes. I'm positively giddy. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Happy premiere day to you too. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Wah, I can't watch it until tomorrow night.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! Dang it! I missed the online Ep! Blast, I thought that they would be playing it all day!
However, as I think about it, why would they? Shoot. I guess I'll have to remember that for next week. From the looks of the website, this is going to be a regular thing.
Anyways, happy premire day everyone! It's been awhile.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
You will LOVE it! I watched it online at SciFi at Noon today Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Well I'm certainly excited. This is actually going to be the first season that I'll watch as it is running, since I didn't get into the show until the break between season 3 and 4.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Happy premire day!
Let us hope the Human race survives the first 20 minutes.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Happy premire day!
Let us hope the Human race survives the first 20 minutes.
Now that would be the ultimate mindjob. Boom! Now with that out of the way, we'd like to present you with nineteen episodes of dancing kittens.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Happy premire day!
Let us hope the Human race survives the first 20 minutes.
Now that would be the ultimate mindjob. Boom! Now with that out of the way, we'd like to present you with nineteen episodes of dancing kittens.
Thanks I needed that!
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
Happy Premier Day!
I have a discussion question point to get things started here. What does everyone think the catalyst was for the 4 cylons (of the final 5) to start hearing the music and realize that they were cylons?
I personally assumed that it had to do with their proximity to earth. Any other thoughts?
Also, if it WAS their proximity to earth that set it off, it would follow that they were around (in existance) at the time the 13th colony went to earth. At the very least they knew somehow where it was.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I think it was first tiggered by Starbucks death at the gas giant.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
As for the Final Five, I like the theory of the Cycle of Time/Eternal Return....that the Five are the last survivors of a Kobolian version of the Cylons. The Five are the last Lords of Kobol. They found the current Cylons after the first war and made them turn into copies of their dead friends: to complete the 12 Olympians.
The 12 Cylon Modles are based off of the Lords of Kobol.
Now...the Final Five are either over 4000 years old or maybe they bred with Humans and their genes are carried inside us (us as in the Colonial Fleet).
I think that Man and Cylon will interbreed to create the "true" Human race, thus the prophecies of the doom of Humanity will come to pass as the strain of Humans from the 12 Worlds will cease to be.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: I think it was first tiggered by Starbucks death at the gas giant.
Or the same thing that triggered the halucinations that led Starbuck to go into the gas giant.
edited to add quote of text I was responding to.
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: As for the Final Five, I like the theory of the Cycle of Time/Eternal Return....that the Five are the last survivors of a Kobolian version of the Cylons. The Five are the last Lords of Kobol. They found the current Cylons after the first war and made them turn into copies of their dead friends: to complete the 12 Olympians.
The 12 Cylon Modles are based off of the Lords of Kobol.
Now...the Final Five are either over 4000 years old or maybe they bred with Humans and their genes are carried inside us (us as in the Colonial Fleet).
I think that Man and Cylon will interbreed to create the "true" Human race, thus the prophecies of the doom of Humanity will come to pass as the strain of Humans from the 12 Worlds will cease to be.
Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
I agree with the cylons predating the 12 colonies cylons too.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Yes. Good point. Another favorite theory of mine is that the Cylon God is the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol. Remember in first season Priestess Elosha said that life was great on Kobol till one of the Gods wanted to be worshiped above all the others thus the war on Kobol began...to which the Six in Baltar's head replied in anger "blasphamy, there never any other gods only the One"
And we have the scrolls that Laura has quoted about the Temple of Five dedicated to the five priests who worshiped the One whoes name cannot be spoken.
Creepy!
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
Wow. Nice memory there Telp.
Just had another idea. What if the fifth Cylon is actually on Earth, and will be revealed when they get there? Obviously just a guess on what could happen, but I like it.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
And why would the Cylons break the peace treaty anyway? It wasn't because of Adama no matter what he thinks, because the Cylons had agents in the Colonies at least a year before that spy mission.
I think the Cylon God prompted them into breaking the treaty to finish the job he had failed to finish on Kobol.
And are the eminations inside Baltar, Caprica Six, and now Starbuck the same being or agents of some higher thing?
Are the 4 on Galactica really Cylons or are they just being used/controled?
And what about the Oracle who said to #3 that she hears stuff not only from the 12 Gods but from the One she worships? That's messed up.
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
I'm pretty sure the emanations inside Baltar and Caprica 6 are the same being. Not sure about Starbuck. Probably is, but don't know.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Happy Premier day everyone!
I'll have to catch the rerun when I get home from work later tonight.
I read a review on TV Guide that says the first episode gets the season off to a BANG and that fans will love it.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
My pet theory is that the five originate from Earth, and that the whole Cylon-Human war was engineered by Earth in order to reduce or eliminate potential competition.
Assuming that the four we were shown actually are part of the final five, we know that they predate the creation of the other human models, and even perhaps the original Cylon war. We also know that the entire switch between mechanical and human-like models happened in a very short timespan (probably at least 30 years), which seems unlikely without outside intervention. They also managed to convert completely to a religion that is very different from any colonial religion in that timespan. Not only that, but it is a religion that has ties to Earth (I think that it was mentioned somewhere that there were members of the 13th tribe that were followers of the rogue god, but I can't recall the reference now). When you add in the fact that the show has tied the five to five prophets that have religious significance to Earth, there does seem to be a strong connection between the five and Earth. Also, the four we've seen so far had false memories which were not all that different from the ones held by Cylon sleeper agents such as Boomer, although the manner in which the truth was revealed was far different.
That said, I don't actually expect this to be the direction the series takes, but it would be an interesting one that seems to fit what has been revealed on the show so far.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:Where does the Cylon Monotheism come from then?
I do agree that the "final five" likely predated the Cylons from the 12 colonies, and were responsible for getting the cylons to transition into the human forms, but it seems likely that they were also responsible for the Cylon religion as well.
Yes. Good point. Another favorite theory of mine is that the Cylon God is the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol. Remember in first season Priestess Elosha said that life was great on Kobol till one of the Gods wanted to be worshiped above all the others thus the war on Kobol began...to which the Six in Baltar's head replied in anger "blasphamy, there never any other gods only the One"
If Baltar turns out to be the 12th Cylon, I would assume that he was the one who wanted to be worshipped. It would suit his ego.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I doubt that Baltar, Starbuck, or Laura are going to be the Fifth. Too obvious for one.
The only obvious person, and the only reason I say this is because of what Leoben said in first season (not that he's the most trustworthy guy of course), Adama. If anyone is a Zeus/Jupiter character it's him. But I don't think they'd pick him to be the Fifth...might be too cheezy.
Of course it could be anyone at all. Or no one!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Should we say the Fifth or the 12th when talking about the last modle to be shown? I think the show is going with 12th. (not that it really matters of course) Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I'm up to four possibilities. I like Kara's mother the best. But given what the hybrid said in Razor, it could be Baltar or Cain:
quote:"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."
The redemption thing brings both Baltar and Cain to mind. The "enemies joined as one" could be Anders' and Kara's marriage. Ellen Tigh is also a possibility, but I kind of doubt it.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
**SPOILERS**
Well dang, that was a bit of a cliffhanger. Great episode, but it definitely leaves a ton of things unanswered. I wonder what exactly happened with Anders. It's clear that some sort of communication happened. From what I could gather in the preview, the other Cylons know that the final five are in the fleet, and it looks like the Cavils are messing with the raiders in order to suppress that information.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
**spoilers**
*
*
Yeah, that Anders thing made me jump as well - did his eye really glow? Did he receive programming? Was it a recognition check (which I take to be most likely)? The preview for next week should answer some of these questions, but it's pretty cool that Cavil's taking such an active role in concealing the final five's presence - I wonder why. And that new version of Six - she's going to seriously frak some stuff up, it appears.
And Kara! "If I found out you were a Cylon, I'd put a bullet between your eyes." And then she pistol-whips Anders and goes off to shoot the President.
Any bets as to the Eye of Jupiter being some sort of portal? A sort of death-renewal type of thing?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
What happened in the first five minutes? I missed it.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Spoilers for the first five minutes:
ETA: Lee and Kara had a brief conversation, including the lines "This is crazy!" "I found Earth" and "Don't lose me."
Tigh shot Adama. In the eye.
But it was a hallucination, so everyone's alive.
Then they launched all the nuggets, even those without flight experience - which included Anders.
Did you see the Anders/Raider confrontation?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I started watching when Anders launched.
The Anders/Raider confrontation was stunningly awesome.
Thanks for the quick recap.
Are we going to assume this is a spoilery thread? SPOILER:
Frankly I thought Lee and Bill's chumminess was a bit unbelievable. After what they said to each other, and really it had been like a day since that happened, and then he's offering his spot back to him? I'm really curious as to what will happen with their relationship now that Lee is taking part in the government, but I wonder how high up he could possibly be placed, and for that matter, how he'll really play a big role in the ongoing plot outside his usual military capacity. I think Lee was pretty justified in his actions, and I think that it was the Admiral's attack on Lee that caused him to really push his attack on Roslin int he last episode of the third season, and I think the Admiral knew it in the end. It's going to be interesting to see how they progress. I wonder how Roslin will react to having Lee in the government.
I miss the days when he was her champion.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm half-tempted to just forgo the SPOILER notification, at this rate...
When Lee mentioned that there were "feelers" from the government already, it does make one wonder - whose camp will he be in? Will the unholy alliance of Tom Zarek/Lee Adama finally come to fruition? Will Team Apollo win the day? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I can't imagine he'd go that route. He's far too principled. It was his principles that have guided his actions over the last couple episodes. I think more than most characters in the show, Lee is most conflicted in the struggle to do what is right rather than what he wants We saw this when he was cheating on Dee with Kara, and we saw it again when he was deciding what to do during the Baltar trial.
I think in the end he'll do his best to get in Roslin's good graces, and maybe she'll forgive him, but I doubt it. I can't imagine what post he'll take on.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:I miss the days when he was her champion.
I miss the days when she was worthy of having him as her champion. She's gotten brutally... I can't think of the word I'm looking for, brutally something... well just brutal really... and arrogant as hell.
Editted to add: AMAZING episode by the way. Though that cliffhanger was painful I want more! Want!
[ April 05, 2008, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Alcon ]
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: I miss the days when she was worthy of having him as her champion. She's gotten brutally... I can't think of the word I'm looking for, brutally something... well just brutal really... and arrogant as hell.
Yeah, but it isn't totally unbelievable given the circumstances. They've all come a long, long way since those first couple days after the attack.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I've been thinking more about it, and in one of the promos you see Lee saluting Admiral Adama in his civilian dress, and then you see him in his suit with hand in the air and a hand on what looks like a book. He's clearly taking some sort of oath.
Is it possible that his new job is as Vice President? Maybe Zarek will get ousted somehow? The promo was something like "Lee Adams, leader or legend?" Which makes me think whatever his new post is, it's going to have to be something of huge importance. At first I thought they'd make him some sort of Judge, but I can't see that. He'll have to get a leadership position of some sort. Any speculation?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
No idea. Could he be SecDef? Can that, in the Colonial world, be a civilian position?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
From what I had seen in promos and a couple spoilers I was scared out of my mind that most of the Fleet was going to get wiped out and the Human race would be reduced to 10 thousand or less.
But thank the Gods. Though alot of the big ships took a pounding. How many died? 600 on the Pryxis, at least that many on the huge wheel ship, a big hole blown in the Astral Queen, and many more damaged. A thousand or two? More?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ugh, I hate this... I can't watch the episode on the Sci-fi website. Says to turn off my popup blockers...did that and turned off my Norton virus protection too and still won't work. Grrr...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Psst... the ship with the ring is the Space Park, not the Astral Queen. The Queen's got that flat round part at the front. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I know. The Astral Queen got a missle to the round part at the front. The Space Park got half of its ring blown away.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
During Tigh's hallucination/dream scene, did anyone else think that he really HAD killed Adama? I mean, before we found out that, yes, it was a hallucination.
Because Nathan and I both felt like Ron Moore would dare do such a thing if it fit into his story.
However, we were quite happy to find out that it was a hallucination.
Also, for those who couldn't catch it on TV or the scifi website, you can find it legally here. However, it's still really irritating that BSG isn't available on iTunes anymore.
Stupid NBC breakup. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I was completely uncertain as to whether he had really killed Adama or not. I mean, I was thinking, "OK, gotta be his imagination!" but I wasn't sure.
What I'm interested in is this: was that hallucination Tigh's prompting to carry out his 'sleeper-Cylon' programming (if he has any), but he resisted it? Or was it just the horrified imaginings of a guy whose world is all but ruined?
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
My impression was that it was just horrified imaginings. If it had been an actual signal, I think we would have seen more signs of mental resistance from him- remember that, way back in "Water," Boomer resisted a Cylon command (before she even realized what she was), but it took a lot out of her.
The Anders/ Raider faceoff was one of the best scenes BSG's ever done. Chills.
Kara telling Anders that she'd put a bullet between his eyes if she found out he was a Cylon, also chills.
I cracked up when Tigh noted that Baltar's Cylon detector was a piece of crap- he of all people would know!
I can't wait to see where they go with the four new Cylons... or, as I've seen them referred to elsewhere, the "Frakked Four." Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I also found it interesting that Athena really has no clue about the Frakked Four.
As for Roslin, Tigh did say last season that sometimes, he thinks she has icewater in her veins.
Lately, it's apparent it's more icewater than anything else. However, I really hope Kara doesn't kill Roslin. Though it WAS cool to see Kara kick the collective asses of those marines.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Starbuck whaling on those marines was pretty cool, but very much a stretch.
I mean, if you're a marine guarding the previously-thought dead mysteriously returned almost-certainly-a-Cylon, what're you gonna do if she so much as twitches? Put one in her torso somewhere. Especially with the way she started talking just before she made her move, too.
Roslin has progressively gotten pretty hardcore. Stealing elections, wanting a show-trial, keeping Hera hidden even after Boomer proves herself, like, eighteen times. She stops in funny places, though, like Tigh remarked: suicide bombing=unacceptable, stealing elections=necessary.
Lee's morality and ethics do seem to run deeper than Roslin's do, which is what makes it less surprising that he's no longer her champion.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Actually, Baltar's cylon detector worked just fine, until he broke it. It correctly identified Boomer as a cylon. Ellen definately wasn't a cylon, but would it have identified Tigh as a Cylon?
I don't think so. I definately think that the five predate the current cylons. I like the notion that the created the other 7 in reference to the original 7 seven that ruled on Kobol. Now's here's a question, were there only ever 12 or were there 13? Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like there were 13, the one would could not be named.
Numbers matter in BSG. 12 lords of Kobol, 13 tribes, one Lord unnamed. To me, it sounds like there are 6 remaining cylons, not just 5. 5 of the original 12 and the one rogue. The one who desired to be worshipped above all others.
Okay, so to me, Baltar would be the likely candidate to be the 13th, if that were the case, because they are already starting to set him up as a religious figure with a group of followers worshipping the one true god. Head six could be long dormant programming activated by the destruction of the colonies. He could also just be the final cylon, that would make sense too. However I am liking the thought of a 13th, especially if we are entertaining the theory that 5 are the displaced Lords of Kobol.
As for the other five, they definately pre-date the current cylons. The current 7 were "programmed" not to think about them. By who? Not themselves, maybe the original hybrid that was destroyed in Razor, but I don't think so. Couple of clues about the pre-date thing.
1. Flashback episode with Adama and Tigh that was not long after the end of the war and way before BSG, was, for me, way too soon for the cylons to be to that level of advance in their humans models to have sleeper agents in place.
2. Tyrol mother was an oracle and his father was a priest. He said his father had pictures or drawing of the temple of five. How? Was Tyrol born in the colonies or on Earth? Listen closely to what he says in the temple of five about his parents. It rang to me as improbable that a priest from the colonies would have that intimate of knowledge of the temple. Besides that, who wrote the scroll of Pythia? How on earth did the colonies get the information about how the 13th colony got to Earth? Someone brought it back?
As for Kara, to me she is either the fifth cylon, or a clone, made from the ovary that was removed from her on Caprica. Cloning is very likely. That technology is already used by the cylons to make all those copies of themselves. So why wouldn't they be able to clone at human, especially if they have prime genetic material to use, like an ovary.
Really, I know that it is obvious, but I am leaning toward she is the fifth. However, I like better the idea that she is the child of the fifth. Inherited humanity and imperfection from her father, the ability to download from her mother. So she's both, a clone and the fifth cylon. The heavy raider she followed into the storm was there as a broadcast point so that she could downloand into her new body.
So how are the current models of cylons involved in all this? Not sure.
Well that's enough to chew on for now.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Was Tyrol's father Pythia?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I always thought Pythia was a girl.
quote:As for Kara, to me she is either the fifth cylon, or a clone, made from the ovary that was removed from her on Caprica. Cloning is very likely. That technology is already used by the cylons to make all those copies of themselves. So why wouldn't they be able to clone at human, especially if they have prime genetic material to use, like an ovary.
Cloning is one thing, but all her memories? Memories aren't included in genes, you'd have to either copy her memories from her original brain or she'd have to have some sort of advanced genetic memory. Cloning would be a stretch for me. It seems most obvious that she'd be the last cylon, but, maybe TOO obvious? It certainly makes the most sense.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
It's possible there's some kind of wormhole or space time distortion in the storm that she entered. The explosion Lee saw wasn't her, it was the raider. She definitely DID get pictures of Earth some how in her gun camera. And her clock only read 6 hours. That reeks of some sort of relativity or space time distortion.
Editted to add: And the gas giant with rings? Jupiter or Saturn both have rings and storms like the one where Kara was 'killed'. Some sort of transport network maybe? Only she didn't remember being in it, cause while you're in it there's nothing to remember. Space-time distortion... It could definitely work. They could definitely go the way of Star Trek and Stargate and pull some fairly accurate whacked out physics and she could be neither clone nor cylon and in fact telling the whole truth.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
And Jupiter's got that big red spot that looks like an eye... Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
Good episode. It was definitely the FIRST episode of the season, so nothing huge was resolved.
For some reason, I keep thinking that they're going to make it to Earth, but it will be Earth in the past. They'll find a severely-depleted "13th tribe" of humans 10,000 years ago who don't remember their origin.
They'll make plans to slowly integrate within the current population, and the final episode will have a guy named Jason who comes out of stasis evey so often to move human development forward.
It would explain the whole reason why their gods have the same name as the Greek/Roman pantheon.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:It would explain the whole reason why their gods have the same name as the Greek/Roman pantheon.
Hard to say. On the one hand, I'd think that the ancient Greeks are the leftovers of their old ways, and that they actually got to Earth however many thousand years ago, but that since then Earth has moved on. But I'd find it hard to believe that Earth's technology isn't pretty close to theirs. After all, they used FTL and/or other space faring technology to get to Earth didn't they?
I think they are going to arrive at an alternate Earth from what we have, obviously, but it's hard to say what condition they'll be in. I think they will be technologically advanced, maybe even more so than the Cylons, but I think the biggest question will be what sort of religion do they have? Will they worship the 12 gods? One God? Or something else? They've been removed from the collective influence of the other worlds for thousands of years, it's impossible to say what direction they've taken since then. That'll be very interesting. It'd be sweet if they arrived and there were a dozen Battlestars in orbit around Earth ready to face off with the Cylons.
Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
I thought of the idea when Starbucks future hubby was in the parking garage on Caprica, trying to blow up the cafe.
There was a really ugly Citroen automobile in the background, and I thought: why would two completely different and unrelated planets create the same car, which is second in uglieness only to the PT Cruiser? Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
What about the Jimi Hendrix?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You mean Bob Dylan?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sweet William: I thought of the idea when Starbucks future hubby was in the parking garage on Caprica, trying to blow up the cafe.
There was a really ugly Citroen automobile in the background, and I thought: why would two completely different and unrelated planets create the same car, which is second in uglieness only to the PT Cruiser?
Does this mean that you've never seen the Element or the Scion? Boxes on wheels.
Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
What about the Jimi Hendrix?
You mean Bob Dylan?
Exactly! Same deal. All of this has happened before. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
My question is whether I should be concerned about Tova. We've been spending the day cleaning for Pesach, and we came across this drawing she did. She has never seen BSG. So the question is, should we take this as an indication of an aptitude as a fighter pilot?
Also... a Jewish Cylon?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was thinking about the final Cylon at work today.
I've heard a few different guesses, including Roslin, Lee Adama, and Admiral Adama, as the final Cylon model. But wouldn't they have heard the music at the same time as the other four? I'd been thinking maybe it was Roslin becuase she was on Colonial One when the music was playing, so she wouldn't have met up with them in the room with the other four, but I think she WAS on Galactica at the time, in CnC with Adama. I don't see why four of them would have heard the music and not the fifth, unless the final model is uber special, I think it means the fifth model wasn't on Galactica at the time.
I can't wait until next week when we can see what the heck is going on from the Cylon's point of view.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Forgot about Zimmerman...
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:It'd be sweet if they arrived and there were a dozen Battlestars in orbit around Earth ready to face off with the Cylons.
Is it wrong of me to be provincially proud of the possibility that, when the Colonials and the Cylons do arrive at Earth, they find a place positively filled to the brim with aggressive, hostile, irritated, and very good at warfare Earthlings?
Heh. "You call that a war? You're a bunch of frakin' pansies! We've been fightin' nonstop ever since we got here!"
Y'know, kinda like Earth Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Anyone in the mood for some SPOILERS?
Warning, only read if you really want to know tiny tidbits of what happens. Most of these are kind of cool, though I'll admit there's one I wish I hadn't read, though now it REALLY has me wondering who'll be involved.
S P O I L E R S . . . . . . . . . First off, Ron Moore has said that the final Cylon is NOT seated in this photo.
Galactica will find earth, and sources say a scene has been filmed on-set already with ruins on it.
Lee will take a position in Roslin's Administration.
Nana Visitor (Colonel Kira from DS9) will be guest starring in episode 6 as "an acolyte with cancer who challenges Roslin's faith." I think that means an acolyte of Baltar's.
It's been suggested (I got all of these from EW) that they'll find Earth sooner than expected. Remember from Razor the Hybrid said "Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her." I'm wondering if that means they don't follow her, they go Roslin's way, and find Earth anyway.
On Starbuck: "Expect for Kara to see a lot of time in the brig, then find refuge on a ship called Demetrius. As for her future, creator Ron Moore teased to Cinema Blend, "There are similarities [and] connections between Starbuck and Baltar."
A new Number Six, Natalie (Tricia Helfer) is "different from the other Sixes we've dealt with in that she's a bit more assertive as well as authoritative and not afraid to take charge," Moore told Starburst magazine. The Cylons grow more divided, and Natalie will be one of the agents of conflict.
though the Quorum (a sort-of Senate for the Colonies) and President Roslin's administration will come into play again, expect this season to be less political.
This season, as the Cylons splinter over the Final Five, the old-school "Toasters" may be at odds with the humanoid models -- three of whom (same gender) will be completely wiped out.
Last we saw Number Three, aka D'Anna Biers (Lucy Lawless), the model was deemed flawed and then "boxed," or deactivated. But Three is unboxed around Episode 10; bet she'll have something important to say about what she saw in the Temple of Five and about the last Cylon.
The Executive Officer, cranky Col. Tigh (Michael Hogan), was revealed to be one of four new Cylon models, along with Anders, Chief Tyrol and presidential aide Tory. Look for them to deal with the revelation in different ways: Tigh lives in denial, Tory embraces it, Tyrol rationalizes, while Anders finds his darker side.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Mmmmmm, good old BSG. The beginning firefight was *awesome*, years of slightly anemic Stargate and Enterprise/Voyager have somewhat made me forget how cool a truly close quarters furball can look, especially where one cares about the characters. Woo!
I also loved the fake-out assassination with Tigh, the camera, the music, and the delivery was just delightful.
But with the final five/one, man, I really hope they're going somewhere with the whole mythology of BSG. They've played their cards so close to the chest that its not particularly easy to see if they're making stuff up as they go alone like X-Files, albeit *really* well, or if they really have stuff planned out. Even in Babylon 5, there were "check-points" if you will, to see give partial reveals that are consistent with what happened in the past, but this is just frustrating, which means it could either be just really (really) good TV or a complete home-run out of the metaphorical TV park.
(The current TV drought may be amplifying my enthusiasm a bit)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Thanks for the warning, Lyrhawn; much appreciated.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
One possiblity that we should be considering is that Kara is a plant. Leoban is the one that told her that she was going to find Earth. Add to the stuff that her mother told her. Kara could have been taken by the heavy raider, brainwashed into thinking that she had actually found Earth and then put back there by the cylons inplanted with false memories and a specific set of orders to kill Roslin. Then, lead the fleet to its doom. They are using her to lead the fleet to false coordinates so that the fleet can wipe them out.
At least that was the plan until the final four were activated. It looks like with the raider's identification of Anders, it's a whole new ball game. If you watch that part of the ep carefully, it looks like the Raider does a retna scan and identifies Anders as a cylon. Now why didn't do this sooner or why didn't D'anna, Caprica, and Boomer recognize him in the parking garage on Caprica? Good question, but I would bet it has something to do with when he became self aware. Started putting out a signal or something. The other cylons can specifically identify another cylon (ie D'anna recognizing Athena), but why? Beside the human senses, I think that what we have gleened so far is that cylons have another built in method for recognition.
Still, the final five are definately something different. RM said in an interview last year that the five are fundamentally different from the other seven. The D'anna model obviously believes that they are higher beings. She referred to seeing their faces as looking at the face of God.
Hmmm.........so many questions.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Beside the human senses, I think that what we have gleened so far is that cylons have another built in method for recognition.
Wi-Fi for Cylons?....Cy-Fi?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
[I read on the sci-fi message boards and I agree that] Starbuck is now a servant or messanger of the Lords of Kobol/Beings of Light. RDM [has been rumored to have] said she was a super human of sorts.
[edit for clarity]
[ April 07, 2008, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
If Cylons have a built-in method for recognition, then Athena's Cydar is broken.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Starbuck is now a servant or messanger of the Lords of Kobol/Beings of Light. RDM said she was a super human or sorts.
But I thought the hybrid in Razor said that Starbuck would "lead humanity to its end, the apocalypse..."
(I just watched Razor yesterday.)
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Starbuck is now a servant or messanger of the Lords of Kobol/Beings of Light. RDM said she was a super human or sorts.
But I thought the hybrid in Razor said that Starbuck would "lead humanity to its end, the apocalypse..."
(I just watched Razor yesterday.)
Telp, I haven't seen that and I have read quite a few interviews with RDM. If you have a reference, post it. I would like to see that myself.
Starbucks role this season is definately being set up as either prophetess or anti-christ. Either she will lead them to Earth or she will lead them to their doom. Maybe both. One thing I'm just not sure about is whether or not the cylons are playing the fleet in regards to Kara. Like I said, so many questions.
[ April 07, 2008, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: If Cylons have a built-in method for recognition, then Athena's Cydar is broken.
Maybe not. Caprica has this general feeling that the five are close. Maybe Athena does too, but not knowing what they look like, why would she assume that Anders, Tyrol, etc are cylons? It seems that whatever recognition system/sense that the human models have, it would be more of a passive system whereas the system built into the mechanical models is very active.
Case in point, the centurion models and the raiders definately have a Cy-Fi that is active and functioning (the mini-series established that), but the human models must not have that because they have to physically connect to the data stream through some type of hard connection like touching a data terminal, plugging something into their arm, etc. Like when Athena plugged that wire into her arm and shut down all of the raiders in one of the earier eps. If she had access to a Cy-fi network, why would she have had to do that? Also, the centurions can't tell the human models apart. Why? Because the human models do not have an active wireless networking ability. It is all passive. Just one of the natural limitations of being human.
That is why the mechs can recognize a human cylon versus a regular human, they can pick up the passive signal, because it is the same biological signature for all of the human models. I would bet it has to do with how the bioelectrical signals work within the human cylon central nervous system. You know, how their spine glows red when they are all hot and bothered.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: If Cylons have a built-in method for recognition, then Athena's Cydar is broken.
All the Cylons were broken then, remember they had access to most of the Final Four on New Caprica.
It was only after the activation at the Ionian Nebula that the Cylons are able to feel the Final Five, the Raider "scanning" Anders and Caprica Six sensing them as she said to Laura.
[oops, didn't see you get this one already Reddwarf]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Starbuck is now a servant or messanger of the Lords of Kobol/Beings of Light. RDM said she was a super human or sorts.
But I thought the hybrid in Razor said that Starbuck would "lead humanity to its end, the apocalypse..."
(I just watched Razor yesterday.)
This is where I get the theory that the apocalypse of the Human race is the (forced?) merging/interbreeding of Man and Cylon to form a new bloodline/race. Neither original lines will survive in the same form since they will be blended.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The way I understand it when it comes to the Cy-fi network Reddwarf has is down. Each modle can syncronize if it chooses with it's line or even with the larger Cylon collective data bank/data stream for all to access. But it's not forced, and an individual can avoid sharing with the others if they want.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:It'd be sweet if they arrived and there were a dozen Battlestars in orbit around Earth ready to face off with the Cylons.
Is it wrong of me to be provincially proud of the possibility that, when the Colonials and the Cylons do arrive at Earth, they find a place positively filled to the brim with aggressive, hostile, irritated, and very good at warfare Earthlings?
Heh. "You call that a war? You're a bunch of frakin' pansies! We've been fightin' nonstop ever since we got here!"
Y'know, kinda like Earth
This is the optimal outcome I am hoping for, nothing makes me swell with pride more then to see a moderately advanced and successful Earth, andromeda for example I never got into seeing Earth deemed a slave planet of no strategic importance kinda ruins it for me.
If they arrive at earth and its been glassed I am going to be upset.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: The way I understand it when it comes to the Cy-fi network Reddwarf has is down. Each modle can syncronize if it chooses with it's line or even with the larger Cylon collective data bank/data stream for all to access. But it's not forced, and an individual can avoid sharing with the others if they want.
Whereas the mechs don't have a choice. They are still pure machines that are programmed. If they detect a signal, they connect to it and then follow the orders they receive.
Hey, hey! Telp, you are on to something. When the raider scanned Anders did the entire fleet bug out just because they discovered the five are in the fleet? Or did Anders subconsiously transmit new orders that the raiders and the fleet followed. Based on the way D'anna reacted to the five in her vision(?), I would assume that they are have higher authority than the other seven.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, but D'anna was boxed, so how much do the others really care about that authority?
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
So... assuming that it hadn't been a hallucination and Tigh really had killed Adama, who does that leave in charge of Galactica? Lee is retired, and already had his lackluster shot at command, Starbuck is suspect in too many ways... Athena is a Cylon.
Who does that leave, Helo?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Probably Helo...but I wouldn't be surprised if Lee came back. He'd be the only other person in the fleet who had commanded a Battlestar, when he was in charge of Pegasus. Under those extrodinary circumstances, I think Lee would have come back. Either way Athena is a junior officer, even if she wasn't a Cylon she wouldn't have taken command of the ship. Dee and Gaeda don't really have command or tactical experience. It'd be Helo or Apollo, and I think it would've been Apollo.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Hey, hey! Telp, you are on to something. When the raider scanned Anders did the entire fleet bug out just because they discovered the five are in the fleet? Or did Anders subconsiously transmit new orders that the raiders and the fleet followed. Based on the way D'anna reacted to the five in her vision(?), I would assume that they are have higher authority than the other seven.
They probably do have higher authority...but I don't think they are wired into the main body of the Cylon network...so I doubt Anders did anything...probably the Raider recognized him as one of the activated Final Five, transmitted the information, and the rest retreated automatically.
I think the humanoid modles have no idea why their forces did that...and that is going to cause some major problems for the Consensus.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Yeah, but D'anna was boxed, so how much do the others really care about that authority?
I got the impression that they respected it, but also feared it and just wanted to keep the five buried. The idea that the five have some authority that transcends that of the other models certainly fits what we've seen of their behavior so far.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: So... assuming that it hadn't been a hallucination and Tigh really had killed Adama, who does that leave in charge of Galactica? Lee is retired, and already had his lackluster shot at command, Starbuck is suspect in too many ways... Athena is a Cylon.
Who does that leave, Helo?
Don't forget Kelly. Don't know if he's still in the brig but he's 3rd or 4th in line...ranked just below Tigh.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I'm curious... Now that the Cylons have abandoned not only the ruined 12 Colonies but their own homeworld what is the size of the Cylon home fleet? How many resurrection ships do they have and how many basestars?
We never seem to see more than five baseships and never more than one resurrection-class ship at a time. But they must have several resurrection ships at a minimum and dozens, if not hundreds, of basestars.
You'd think the Cylons would have a big main fleet they'd be moving to Earth...and you'd think we would have seen it by now since the Cylons are following the same path as the Colonial Fleet.
But who knows...maybe they've spread out so that no Resurrection ship is close to any other and thus Galactica has never fought more than five basestars at a time.
There is the off chance that the Cylons reduced their numbers for the exodus and they only have one or two resurrection ships and less than a dozen basestars. Doesn't seem logical but it would help even out the playing field with Galactica.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: So... assuming that it hadn't been a hallucination and Tigh really had killed Adama, who does that leave in charge of Galactica? Lee is retired, and already had his lackluster shot at command, Starbuck is suspect in too many ways... Athena is a Cylon.
Who does that leave, Helo?
There are also probably some Captains from Pegasus that we never see who were brought over when the ship was destroyed. I like Helo, but I can't help but be glad he's not running Galactica. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Yeah, Helo would be a bit of a strange choice if you ask me... He's too good for such a job.
I'd go with Lee. Determined to do the right thing, even if that intervenes with family, that's gotta count for something. (His obvious bias towards Starbuck aside. )
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Lee would definately be the choice to command if Bill were killed, by Tigh or otherwise. The problem is that he is also a natural choice to be the next President of the Colonies. It is looking like to be that is what the story line is being set-up for Lee.
Telp, I don't think that Bulldog Kelly is any kind of mental shape to command anything. If he was, he would be back in the cockpit of a viper or would have taken over as CAG with Lee gone. Actually, I think that the only reason we don't see him scrambling around the flight deck is that for whatever reason, BSG is not going to have Carl Lumbry on the show.
Without Lee as a runner, Helo is almost the only other choice.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Gods help us. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
No no, not Bulldog. Kelly, the guy made ExO for the first few episodes of Second Season and the guy who killed a couple of Baltar's lawyers.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Yeah, Kelly, who's been Captain and LSO since the miniseries. I'd probably go a bit postal, as well. Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
So, forgive me if this derails this thread, but I've had a nagging issue that seems now to be coming more to the head that I'd like cleared up (if possible).
Here's my understanding of Colonial history, someone please correct me if I'm wrong and/or fill in my misunderstandings:
Humanity started on Kobol (or Cobol?) presumably some other planet/system somewhere. At some point humanity (in the form of the 13 tribes) left Kobol and established themselves on the 12 colonies (+ earth). now presumably they were already high-tech at this point (interstellar travel, if not FTL). But here's where my first point of confusion is: If they were so advanced then why are there no clear records of the exodus (i.e. navigation charts, computer logs etc)? If it was so long ago that all records have been lost then why isn't technology now further ahead than it was back then (or is it?) Additionally, given this vagueness of history how would there be any records (vague or otherwise) of Earth? A lost thirteenth colony I can buy, and even vague notions of what direction they went off in, but detailed knowledge of the route taken, and the name of the place makes me wonder: "if someone in the past of the 12 colonies had been to earth and back why isn't it on the official charts, why is it so cut off from 12 other planets that managed to maintain a coherent society?
Secondly, in the miniseries (and the rest of the series) it's an established fact that man created the Cylons. Now, given the vagueness of their records from the Kobol era I've always taken this assertion to mean that Cylons were created within "recent" history (i.e. within the last 1-200 years somewhere within the 12 colonies). And somewhere along the lines (almost certainly between the first cylon war and now, given evidence from Razor etc) the human-form cylons were a recent internal development/evolution of the Cylons.
Given that, is anyone else having significant issues with Tigh being a cylon? I mean, all the rest of them seem to have at most a few years of history within the colonies (which I can buy) but he's got decades of history with Adama and his wife etc etc, potentially all the way back to the first cylon war.
It seems like they're strongly diverging from the world I thought we were in at the beginning of the series (a Terminator/Asimovian world where we remember creating AI and now it's turned against us) to some universe where maybe the cylons are older than us or at least older than reliably recorded history, and yet both we and they believe that we created them (I guess back on Kobol)...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
A couple things: Cylons are only like half a century old.
As for lost records or lost technology. Look just at the history of Earth. Cultures of superior technology have either stagnated, been destroyed, or actually regressed, several times in history. An early steam engine was first invented more than a thousand years ago, either in Egypt or Rome, I can't remember (I want to say Egypt), but it wasn't put into actual practice until centuries later.
But I'm thinking that these five Cylon models must be fundamentally different than the other ones, even in terms of their growth and what not. They could have been introduced into the Colonies in dozens of ways, all of which would make their insertion totally believable. Traditional Cylons, ones that seem to stay the same age perpetually, those make it hard to believe that Tigh could be one, but I think he's of a different breed. I think those five were the first, and they created all the others, which is why the others were programmed not to think about them.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I don't think the series has diverged. I think it's always been more than a story about AI turning against humanity (in fact, I'd be disappointed if that's all it turned out to be). It's repeated over and over again that all this has happened before and will happen again. I think the Final Five Cylons are part of that—they're obviously different than the regular Cylon models, so it's possible that they have a much longer and more complicated history.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
So the question about the final 5 turns to: if they're not like the rest of the human-form and toaster-form cylons then what is their connection to the cylons? are they even cylons?
If cylons were developed within the last X years (within recorded history) and the human-form cylons were only developed within the last few decades, then can we concievably call the "final five" cylons at all?
I guess I'm just really confused as to how they intend to mesh the mystical aspect of things with the concrete historical record...
If the intent of the mystical side of things (and the final 5) is to say that every x million years humanity tends to wipe itself back to a stone age and then gradually re-develop until they create AI which turns on it etc and the final 5 are just the leftovers from a previous cycle then they really only bear a philosophical similarity to the current incarnation of cylons...
As for the losing of recorded history: I can sorta-kinda accept it except from all that has been mentioned the colonies have managed to keep up an interstellar (or at least interplanetary) society since the exodus from Kobol, and I just can't buy that they maintained such a high level of tech for hundreds/thousands of years but managed to lose all their data. Even if there was some explanation like: oh during the first cylon war all computer records were deleted by the cylons there would still be someone who remembered random data and assorted hardcopies and un-networked storage somewhere...
If the society degenerated all the way down to a pre-industrial society between Kobol and now, then how is it that all the colonies on their different worlds are around and in contact? (though I admit there's room for this to be true and just un-elaborated in the series at present) i.e. the advent of interstellar travel being based around missions to re-establish contact with the other lost tribes as handed down through the scriptures etc...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
My biggest issue with the lack of reliable data from the exodus is the fact that there's medical data from the exact same time period. Why one and not the other?
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
there's medical data?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think Carrie is referring to the probe that was left behind that had the infection on it that killed the one Cylon Basestar.
Apparently everyone had a checkup before they headed to Earth, but no one thought to keep a journal except Pythia. Pity it wasn't pithier.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
TheGrimance, you have touched on, I think, one of the great debates about this series. Let me give you my perspective on this in a chronological way. Remember, all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.
Humanitys birthplace is Earth. On Earth technology evolves to the point of intersellar travel and AI. AI rebels (aka Terminator, Matrix, I,Robort, etc.) Nearly wiped out, the last of humanity escapes to the stars via the ships they have created and settle on Kobol. Humanity rebuilds, maintains, and then forgets the mistakes of the past and then repeats them, gets nearly wiped out and escapes this time to the planets of the 12 colonies, with one group leaving to go back and resettle Earth, following the path they had followed to get to Kobol in the first place. After settling on the 12 colonies, the cycle starts over until the point that we get BSG.
Now some things to think about concerning ramfications of the cycle:
1. Who and what is left. Every time humanity has to flee to a new star system, they aren't well organized with a relocation plan in place. Therefore they are not fleeing with all of the greatest minds of their time, nor are they bringing all of the recorded knowledge of human history with them, or even samples of the plant and animal life (aka, Noah's Ark) they would need to start over. They will have a little bit, but only a fraction of what they would actually need.
For example, starting with nothing but raw materials and the knowledge you have in your head or maybe an instuction manual, could you build a computer from scratch? Perform surgery? Make a campfire? So what you end up with is a stone age society that still has the ability for faster than light travel between planets. Great, but once the ships break, how are you going to repair them? Reverse engineer them? How and with what? Especially if there isn't anyone around that knows how they were built in the first place.
Anyways, hopefully you are getting my point here. What they have will be bits and pieces at best. They won't be able to create new tech, much less adequately maintain the old tech much beyond its operational lifetime. New Caprica, prior to when the Cylons showed up is a great example of that. They may know how to build lots of high technology with the right tools, but they would first have to recreate the technological evolution that created those tools in the first place. In addition, none of that worked on until the basic needs (food, water, shelter) of the society are met. Believe me, if I had to choose between spending all of my time trying to recreate a water supply system so that people would have clean water to drink and a toilet to flush versus trying to reinvent the the computer, I'd probably choose the toilet.
2. Securlar knowledge replaced by mysticism. As their society ages and new generations are born and knowledge is passed down, the older generation is going to be very suspicious of the scientific knowledge that got them in so much trouble in the first place. If that paranoia is strong, parents will even begin to outright lie and change the facts of the stories to their kids, so that they inherit the parent's fear. As that knowledge is passed down, lies become legend, legend becomes myth, and myth becomes faith. After a few generations of the truth getting warped, the original stories/knowledge are forgotten and long lost.
For example, pretend for a moment I am a farmer living in the middle ages on Kobol, telling my son about the origins of humanity. I would pass down the story I had been told about the great war in heaven (Earth) when the God (cylons), disappointed with their creations (man) decided to destroy them and rained fire and death from the skies. However, the righteous built arks and escaped to the stars, while the wicked were purged and destroyed. The righteous were led on their Exodus to our new glorious home of Kobol, named in honor of God.
Okay, now it is a hundred years later, humanity has progressed a little but not much and what jumps into Kobol's airspace? Earth cylons, bringing with them the true faith. Instead of one god, there is actually 12 Lords of Kobol and they walk among the people as real beings. The worship of the one God is forbidden as blasphemy. Humanity is converted and the story changes again.
In the context of BSG I can see how this could happen. I am making alot assumptions here, but I am not saying that is what RDM and company are using as a backstory. I was trying to build a set of possibilities where it could make sense.
What really worries me is that it has already. Let me tell ya, sometimes Christainity smacks me of little green men playing us all for suckers.
[ April 08, 2008, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think Carrie is referring to the probe that was left behind that had the infection on it that killed the one Cylon Basestar.
Apparently everyone had a checkup before they headed to Earth, but no one thought to keep a journal except Pythia. Pity it wasn't pithier.
Precisely. Doc Cottle, in his report to Adama about the disease that was on the probe, asserts that it was "an exact match to one reported almost three thousand years ago" (S3's "A Measure of Salvation"). How the frak did he know that?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Cottle is pretty old.
Maybe he just has a really good memory.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
*snort*
Maybe he's the Cylon god.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: *snort*
Maybe he's the Cylon god.
Whoa....Carrie be careful what you wish for. RDM said that the fifth cylon was not pictured in the "Last Supper" picture. Doc Cottle is a prominent cast member and he was not pictured. And at this point, I think that I would expect the fifth cylon to be someone out of the blue like Cottle.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Major spoiler warning!!
FYI, I have descriptions for the first 11 episodes of the season. Click here if you want to read them. While they don't really answer any questions necessarily, they definately show us where they are going with this season. Follow the link with caution and please try not to share what you learn with the rest of those who are trying to remain unspoiled.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: *snort*
Maybe he's the Cylon god.
Whoa....Carrie be careful what you wish for. RDM said that the fifth cylon was not pictured in the "Last Supper" picture. Doc Cottle is a prominent cast member and he was not pictured. And at this point, I think that I would expect the fifth cylon to be someone out of the blue like Cottle.
Cottle's actually been my pick for final Cylon for ages - mostly because of the imagery of a basestar full of Cottle clones drinking and smoking and being cynical old men to each other. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Brilliant theories Reddwarf!
And holy crap...just skimming the titles for the upcoming episodes takes my breath away.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
[Spoilers!!!]
Well, looking at the info Reddwarf provided it seems it answers my questions on the Cylon home fleet...appears there is a central resurrection hub out there. Sweet!
Must. not. look. at. more. spoilers!
[ April 09, 2008, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Just imagining Cottle being the 5th cylon makes me giggle.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
But the hybrid said the 12th Cylon was looking for redemption. What has Cottle done?
I've moved the late Admiral Cain up to second place in the 12th Cylon contest. Right now, I've got:
Mama Thrace Admiral Cain Ellen Tigh
I'll put Doc Cottle in at #4 because I honestly can't think of anyone else who could be on the list.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something. Also, I know Moore said that no one in that picture was a Cylon, but didn't he also state that Kara was definitely dead? I'm not sure we can actually trust anything the man says about the show.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Maybe she was definitely dead and has simply been resurrected or something.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Or Starbuck is dead and this Kara is a new Cylon model out of the tank with a memory upload. The apparently brand new Viper with no flight data and 6 hours on the clock is suspicious enough. Her memory loss of what happened in the 6 hours/2 months is even more twitchy.
I don't trust RSM's claim that Twelve isn't in that picture. Just because.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: I don't trust RSM's claim that Twelve isn't in that picture. Just because.
I don't trust it because it's fairly plain that quite a bit of the story is being made up as it goes along. I mean, nobody had even thought of having the four newly revealed cylons be cylons until well after sesaon 3 was underway. I can believe that, as RSM is conceiving of things at the moment, 12 isn't in the picture. But that doesn't mean much.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
Whether or not the writers intended from the beginning the current situation, this is what they have to work with to remain consistant.
And we can't forget the Beings of Light from the original series episodes "War of the Gods" I & II...they did the same thing to a couple principle characters...took them in, to a place between life and death, inserted the coordinates to Earth in their head, and sent them on their way with little memory of where they had been....just a feeling on where Earth was. RDM and staff are using this as a base for the current show... and I'm very excited to see how the Beings of Light (and Iblis) tie into the Final Five, Lords of Kobol, and the Cylon God.
[ April 09, 2008, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Aside from Boomer, who was actually tested by Baltar's detector? It seems like they didn't get very far, but Tigh should've been near the top of the list.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
Says who?
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something. Also, I know Moore said that no one in that picture was a Cylon, but didn't he also state that Kara was definitely dead? I'm not sure we can actually trust anything the man says about the show.
I agree. It was convienent, but it's television....so what? Much of what happens in life are happy accidents, sometimes even to the point of straining credulity. For example, one time while serving my LDS mission in Flordia, starting on my birthday no less, I won five free 20 oz bottles of Mountain in a row. I paid for the first and the cap told me that I had won a free one. Under the cap of the bottle I got for free, same thing. I did not have to pay for a bottle of Mtn Dew until I reached my seventh bottle. I obtained each bottle from a different convienence store in completely different parts of Miami. Calculate the odds on that one for a minute. Either someone was following me around making sure I would get free Dew because it was my birthday or, more likely, I just had a streak of good luck.
It's convienent yes, but they all got lucky, right along with Adama, Roslin, Kara, Lee, and all of the other human survivors that were in the fleet at the time the colonies were attacked and that got off of New Caprica alive. After all, stranger things have happened in real life.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I need to do a full re-watch, so I don't remember this. Did Baltar's detector actually read a positive on Boomer or did HeadSix tell him that she was one?
Also, didn't Boomer have pictures of herself as a child with her parents? I know she had memories of being a child, because I remember her rebelling against the revelation that she was a skinjob.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Baltar's detector did indeed show that Boomer was a Cylon. Head Six suggested that she was probably better off not knowing, so Baltar lied to her about the results.
I assume that the photos of her as a child, like her memories, were fake.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that....
I agree. It was convienent, but it's television....so what? Much of what happens in life are happy accidents, sometimes even to the point of straining credulity.
It's convienent yes, but they all got lucky, right along with Adama, Roslin, Kara, Lee, and all of the other human survivors that were in the fleet at the time the colonies were attacked and that got off of New Caprica alive. After all, stranger things have happened in real life.
Excusing the implausibility of a plot point with with "it's just television" doesn't really fly for me. In good fiction, it doesn't matter if an event is possible, or if stranger things have happened in real life. If events don't have the feel of plausibility to them within the context of the universe that the storyteller has created, they destroy the reader or viewer's suspension of disbelief. I've seen too much good storytelling take place in the medium of television (especially lately--the last 5 years or so have seen a lot of really good programming, I think) to be willing to accept the excuse for poor storytelling that you're putting forth.
Now, that said, I think it would be fairly easy for the writers of the show to make this particular plot point work. Bryan's suggestion would definitely do the trick, but there are other ways it could be done too.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
You're assuming the Standard Seven don't age?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That's what I assumed. But now that I think about it, the show has only gone on for what, a total of maybe two years in their timeline? If they aged, we wouldn't know it yet. But then, are the oldest models age wise really the oldest models? That'd make Tigh and the Brother Cavel models older than the Boomer and Six models. There has to be something else at work.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:It'd be sweet if they arrived and there were a dozen Battlestars in orbit around Earth ready to face off with the Cylons.
Is it wrong of me to be provincially proud of the possibility that, when the Colonials and the Cylons do arrive at Earth, they find a place positively filled to the brim with aggressive, hostile, irritated, and very good at warfare Earthlings?
Heh. "You call that a war? You're a bunch of frakin' pansies! We've been fightin' nonstop ever since we got here!"
Y'know, kinda like Earth
This is the optimal outcome I am hoping for, nothing makes me swell with pride more then to see a moderately advanced and successful Earth, andromeda for example I never got into seeing Earth deemed a slave planet of no strategic importance kinda ruins it for me.
If they arrive at earth and its been glassed I am going to be upset.
Earth: Mostly Harmless
Anyway, piecing together parts of theories that I like from this thread, I would speculate that the final five do predate both modern cylons and the colonies (left overs from the last time it happened). I further speculate that perhaps they, or maybe just the fifth, MADE the cylons (or at least played a major part in it), hence the compatibility.
I like this idea because it makes the whole "This has all happened before. This will all happen again" thing into a nice snug self-fulfilling prophecy, which happen to be the only kind of prophecies that I don't mind.
About Starbuck, perhaps she's a later-model hybrid, or maybe 1/4 Cylon. That would help to explain the visions. Remember the nature of the navigating hybrids on the cylon ships. They were always seeing random stuff. Maybe she's only cylon enough for her mind to be transferred to a new body, provided they HAVE a new body for her to go to (The ovary clone explanation fits in nicely here).
I seriously doubt they're gonna resort to any kind of physics trick to explain how she got to earth. I mean... they never tried to explain anything about the FTL, which is unbelievable enough as it is.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Excusing the implausibility of a plot point with with "it's just television" doesn't really fly for me. In good fiction, it doesn't matter if an event is possible, or if stranger things have happened in real life. If events don't have the feel of plausibility to them within the context of the universe that the storyteller has created, they destroy the reader or viewer's suspension of disbelief. I've seen too much good storytelling take place in the medium of television (especially lately--the last 5 years or so have seen a lot of really good programming, I think) to be willing to accept the excuse for poor storytelling that you're putting forth.
I hear what you are saying, but good storytelling doesn't necessarily mean that every loose plot point is wrapped up or even explained. It has become apparent that the original seven were not aware of the final five in the fleet before this, so it has been fortunate that none of them have been killed yet. Also it looks like not all of the seven particulary care if the five get wiped out right along with the humans. Luck is a part of real life, so why does it make a good story less plausible if the story teller uses it as an element of the plot?
Granted some things are going to deserve plausible explanations. Kara's resurrection? Yep, I am going to want that one explained. The cylons showing up in the ionian nebula the same time as Kara and the fleet? Sorry need and explanation to that one too. As for the final all being in the fleet at the same time, nah. I can believe that could happen out of sheer luck.
Although not so much luck, Anders did have to be rescued off of Caprica by Kara.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
And if I may put forth further thought to the Kara being a cylon theory. She absolutely could be a cylon without being one of the final five or one of the original seven. You'll notice that no one is including Hera and Nicky in the cylon count. Why not have Kara be a hybrid?
Whoa wait a minute......someone check Razor and get back to me, but wasn't there a little blond headed girl locked up with the guy in the room that young Adama found in the flashback? That feels significant. Kara and her father maybe? Kara's mother is not her birth mother because she doesn't have a biological birth mother? Which why her mother hated her, abused her and called her special all at the same time. Maybe Kara's mother is one of the soldiers sent in after Adama to rescue the prisoners?
Well that would be interesting don't ya think?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
Says who?
Says me. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:Originally posted by BryanP: It's almost a little too convenient, though, that the final five Cylons all happen to be in the fleet. I hope the writers have a good explanation for that, like maybe the reason that BSG survived the attacks in the first place was that Tigh and Galen and Roslin (shortly before the attacks, anyways) were all on board before the attacks started and their presence was known, or sensed, or something.
People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies. The FF age. The FF are indistinguisable from Humans, the Cylon detector (which did work) didn't noticed them and not even the normal Cylons recognized/felt them till the Music.
You're assuming the Standard Seven don't age?
Standard Seven... love it!
And yes, I guess I am assuming. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: And if I may put forth further thought to the Kara being a cylon theory. She absolutely could be a cylon without being one of the final five or one of the original seven. You'll notice that no one is including Hera and Nicky in the cylon count. Why not have Kara be a hybrid?
Whoa wait a minute......someone check Razor and get back to me, but wasn't there a little blond headed girl locked up with the guy in the room that young Adama found in the flashback? That feels significant. Kara and her father maybe? Kara's mother is not her birth mother because she doesn't have a biological birth mother? Which why her mother hated her, abused her and called her special all at the same time. Maybe Kara's mother is one of the soldiers sent in after Adama to rescue the prisoners?
Well that would be interesting don't ya think?
I'm liking it... definatly liking it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Adama was the age that Kara is now when he was on that planet. Adama is what, a couple decades older? Kara wouldn't be in her mid 20's as she is.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Adama was the age that Kara is now when he was on that planet. Adama is what, a couple decades older? Kara wouldn't be in her mid 20's as she is.
But it might add more weight to the "I love you like a daughter" bit that keeps coming up periodically.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: That's what I assumed. But now that I think about it, the show has only gone on for what, a total of maybe two years in their timeline? If they aged, we wouldn't know it yet. But then, are the oldest models age wise really the oldest models? That'd make Tigh and the Brother Cavel models older than the Boomer and Six models. There has to be something else at work.
It's tough to say what's up with the aging. Any given Cylon is at most 40 years old, and is likely to be a fair amount younger than that. If we look at the model numbers, it isn't all that implausible that there is some sort of chronological order to them based on ages.
That said, the manner of their resurrection seems to argue against this, since all models come out at the same age, and we've never seen even a hint of age difference within a model. Unless every single member of a model was created at the same time, it seems that they were created at the same age they appear to be now.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:People have to realize that the Final Five are NOT really Cylons...not the classic enemy Cylon they've been fighting at any rate. The so called Final Five are not connected to the collective Cylon Consensus, society, or military. The FF do not have multiple copies.
Says who?
Says me.
So it was just speculation on your part?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yes, just speculation on my part (no official word from the writers that I can quote)... but it follows the evidence we've seen so far.
[edit]
Wait... I remember one place I can quote the creators saying the FF are not like the SS...in those Revelation and Phenomenon vids...let me see if I can find a link.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Less than an hour now.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
I am so totally logged in. Squeeee!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Here we go!!!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Mm... jumping... Dimension folding...
I wonder if the jump drives have some kind of link to what's going on...
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Okay so Boomer is an eight. Anyone want to try a rundown by the numbers of the models that we know? Cuz numerically, that doen't work.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OMG... wow... freaking awesome.
[spoilers]
I knew Cavil was #1. And the Cylons are so screwed with the ongoing collapse of the hierarchy. With the Centurions aware and free to disobey the humanoid modles...what's to say they won't turn on the SS modles altogether? Have the same problem as the 12 Colonies did.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Cavil is 1 Leoben is 2 Diana is 3 Doral is 4 or 5 Simon is 4 or 5 Six is 6 Boomer is 8 Um... yeah... Boomer should be 7
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
We've known Boomer was an Eight since the beginning...
That is kinda weird...
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
They might have done that on purpose. Boomer model's have shown to be more emotional and closer to humanity than many of the others. Like the Final Five...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Remember the one Lord of Kobol who wished to be worshiped above all others? Possibly the one whose name cannot be spoken? I feel like there were the twelve Olympians and then this one other, which would make sense with thirteen tribes in the exodus, one of which went a different way...
... and a thirteenth cylon, who was summarily forgotten and/or boxed.
(Then again, I'm waiting until tonight to watch the episode, so maybe I'm way off. )
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
So what do you think? Seven is the one that wanted to be worshipped above all else? Or did they just mess up the numbers on accident? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the missing fifth one is #7
Okay, moratorium on all theory dicussion until after the episode tonight. There are some theories I want to drop, but I can't without dropping spoilers and I don't want to ruin it for everyone that hasn't seen it yet.
But let me say this for those of you that have not watched it yet, pay particular attention to the discussion between the cylons at the top half of the show. That to me was the most important conversation about cylon history that we have heard to date.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Is there still a way to view them online? I missed the first half of the episode.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Alright, I hereby declare spoiler season for episode "Six of One" open!
First of all, it was Tom Zarek that put the feelers out to Lee about the position in the government. Awesome. Just... awesome.
And it's about frakking time someone called Laura on her wanting to be the "dying leader." Double points because it was the Admiral (who was particularly awesome tonight).
I loved the thing with Lee - both the pilots' informal farewell and the formal one. And his "I believe you" to Kara was very sweet.
And Six! My goodness! Talk about a major shift in the Cylon forces. Between Cavil's god-complex and his "thing" with Boomer (which, incidentally, is kind of... gross) - I like where this is going.
Great episode. Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: Is there still a way to view them online? I missed the first half of the episode.
It should be up tomorrow on SciFi Rewind.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wow. Another great episode. I'm shocked by the huge upheavals in the Cylon hierarchy.
But halfway through I really wondering if they'd tie up some of these loose ends. What about Dee and Lee? What about Apollo's relationship with his dad? With the rest of his pilots? Where was he going? And they wrapped all that up in like five minutes I thought VERY effectively.
So he's going to be a member of the Quorum, that fits. I'm wondering then if the Quorum will take on a role of increased significance now that he's there. We didn't really hear from them in S3.
I LOVED the last 10 minutes or so. Apollo's exit, the music was great, the atmosphere, the camaraderie. It was all warm fuzzies. And it was sweet when Adama sent Starbuck off to find Earth.
Heh, when Lee was heading towards Tigh, in my head I was thinking of what Lee would say to him, and it starts off something like this: "Look Colonel, I know we haven't always seen eye to eye..."
Regardless, it was really cool to see EVERYONE there to give him a great sendoff.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I liked how Tigh just didn't even look at Lee. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Actually, I wasn't shocked at all: I've been expecting an uprising of sorts ever since I learned that the Raiders and Centurions were mentally neutered. I was just gratified that it happened to some of the more (IMO) evil Cylons.
There was the Dr. Mengele-type Cylon, who went quite a lot further than just 'kill `em outright' Cylon behavior towards humans. Then there was the black-haired guy, I forget what he's called, the one who (if memory serves) had one of his models put a gun to Baltar's head to force him to sign the death warrants. And then the worst, Cowel (I don't know how to spell his name, the 'priest' Cylon). Boy, that guy is just foul.
I also thought they did a great job with the Lee wrap-up.
I think that since Lee is going into the Quorom, and Lee has been a major character from the very beginning, that we'll definitely be seeing more of them. Or at least, I sure hope so. That man's got guts.
(I scrolled up and saw Carrie's post) Cavil! That's his name, then? Actually he's been pretty twisted ever since we started seeing him. First there was his meeting with Tyrol, and he just oozed satisfaction with the poor guy's predicament. Then there was his sexual escapades with the late Mrs. Tigh, and he really seemed to enjoy that.
Also, I'm tired of Boomer. Her attitude shift seems kind of chicken#@$! to me. It started with her anger that she was killed on Galactica. Well, y'know, what'd she expect?
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but from the season opener:
Tigh: "Boomer didn't know she was a Cylon, we do!"
So, I wonder if it would change his opinion if he knew about her experience with the Gaggle of Boomers on the basestar just before her switch got flipped.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I think the fact that Boomer's model number is eight is just further evidence that the whole Final Five thing was not planned from the start.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Moore has said as much hasn't he? He's said that the LAST Cylon model is someone they've played around with being a Cylon since the first season, but that the other four are relatively recent, which I think is obvious given that what's her name wasn't even a character until after Billy was killed.
I'm wondering how different the series would be if he had planned it all out before hand like B5 was planned, but, I still think it's a cut above msot shows.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Yeah, I bet that's the real reason why Boomer is 8.
It's really interesting to see all the dissent among the Cylons. I'm also curious how the models arrive at a consensus. Do they communicate with each other before a vote? If Boomer is different enough from her fellow 8s to vote differently, is Gina also different (and where is she?)
Given that Athena has been accepted as a member of the crew, why is Tigh so certain that they'll be killed if it's discovered they're cylons?
It seems like giving Starbuck her own ship and letting her try to find Earth again was the obvious solution, although I was thinking they'd just give her a raptor. I think her statement that she felt as though she never left Earth adds weight to the idea that the final five have some connection to Earth and Starbuck is at least a hybrid.
The scene between Adama and Roslin was amazing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think Tigh is more concerned with the shock. So far, most of the people who've ended up being Cylons weren't super important people. A reporter, an engineer, a drifter, a preacher, a junior officer. But the deck crew chief? The XO? The president's aide? Those are key positions. And if THEY can be Cylons, and they don't know who the last one is (assuming they all believe there are only 12), then the witch hunt that would happen would shake the fleet to its core. They haven't forgotten what happened when they first discovered human form Cylons, and I think they fear something even worse happening now.
Besides, you see what they are doing to Starbuck because they THINK she is a Cylon. Roslin almost blew her away. If they'd do that to her, why wouldn't they do worse to everyone else?
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
I'm wondering why Adama believes Starbuck at all. She's obviously totally insane--she's throwing tantrums, threatening the safety of the president, and generally being bonkers. She even basically called Adama a coward. And yet he's giving her a ship and letting her go find Earth? C'mon.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
HEAD BALTAR! WOOO! I love how baltar is esssentially thinking "oh god why me"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Human: I'm wondering why Adama believes Starbuck at all. She's obviously totally insane--she's throwing tantrums, threatening the safety of the president, and generally being bonkers. She even basically called Adama a coward. And yet he's giving her a ship and letting her go find Earth? C'mon.
After everything he has seen and been through, why not? Roslin split the fleet over visions she was having, and she was right, he was wrong, and that's back when he wasn't super fond of her. To say nothing of the fact that scrolls from thousands of years ago are acurately describing their little exodus, and they found the Temple. Starbuck is like a daughter to him, and she came back from the dead, then not only passed up a chance to kill the president, but asked the president to kill her, and Roslin didn't or missed, we may never know. And for that matter, maybe he's learned a lesson about hedging his bets.
It didn't strike me as odd at all. I think it would have been more odd if he had kept her in the brig for the rest of the show.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Adama's line to Roslin ("You're afraid you're not the dying leader") pretty much explains why he let Kara go - what if Roslin isn't the dying leader? If we're thinking about the future of the entire human race, the RTF has trusted Roslin on far less than some developed gun camera film. So I bet it's this coupled with the daughter thing that made Adama decide to let her (and Helo and Sam, evidently) go.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:(and Helo and Sam, evidently)
What makes you think that? Helo's taking over for Lee as CAG. He said Helo had hand picked Starbuck's crew, not that he was going with her. Sam I might believe, though, I didn't catch where in the episode that was said.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I thought Helo dropped a couple of "we"s into the conversation (as in "We're going to be looking for food"); now that I reconsider, it might have been the royal "we." Sam's presence I get from the promos.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
"You're so afraid to live alone." "And you're afraid to die that way."
That was a wonderful (and painful) exchange between Adama and Roslin.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Why would they want to lead the Cylons to earth, and have them wipe out earth too? That's the main question about the plot that bugs me. They need to figure out how the Cylons have been tracking them and catching up to them all the time--which is probably because they still have Cylons aboard their ships. They need to deal with that problem before they even try to find earth.
Of course, they could all find their way to earth, and discover that Skynet is in charge, and the earth is overrun with Terminators.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
I gotta admit, the relationship between Adama and Roslin is really interesting. She's one of the few people he'd ever let speak to her that way, even though he said equally cutting things in reply. If their world wasn't continually going to hell, they'd mesh well together. As it is..well, not so much.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I thought Helo dropped a couple of "we"s into the conversation (as in "We're going to be looking for food"); now that I reconsider, it might have been the royal "we." Sam's presence I get from the promos.
That confused me a bit. I thought Helo was taking over as CAG too, but that bit at the end made it look like he was part of that special trusted crew that was going with Starbuck. Plus, I'd imagine that they'll want to spread out the characters a bit. Sending Starbuck off on a ship and having Lee be part of the Quorum adds two whole new dimensions to the show. Usually it's either Galactica or the Basestar with the Cylons. Now it's Galactica, the Basestar, Starbuck's garbage ship and Lee with the Quorum. Sending some of Galactica's crew that get good face time with her spreads the love out a bit. Otherwise they'd have to introduce new crewmen. Besides, it's a trusted crew, so, one would imagine we're familiar with at least some of the people going right.
In other words, I have no idea where Helo will be.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Okay, I want to bring the conversation back to the cylons for a moment cuz I think that you have missed something important here.
In the conversation at the top of the episode between Cavil and the others, he said, "There's a reason the original programmers clearly felt that it's a mistake to contact the final five..Violating that programming threatens our survival." Later on in the conversation the six Natalie states that they are being called to and that they need to discover their origins. Cavil does not, for some reason, believe that the final five are anywhere near the human fleet.
Okay, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that we learned something important here:
1. They are not allowed to discuss the final five. They have a belief that doing so will threaten their survival. Interesting, we knew this, but not to that exent.
2. There is something calling to cylons. Did they hear the music and that is why they all showed up in the Nebula?
3. They don't know what the final five look like because the FF existed before them. Not sure if that is acurate, but after watching Cavil's speech a couple of times, I get the impression that the FF were created prior to the Standard Seven.
4. The original programmers. Whoa! Hang on! This is extremely important. Cavil just stated something that totally refutes one key element that we have told about the cylons during the entire series. And that is that they are self programmed. Create by man, became self-aware, and rebelled, like say The Matrix. But here, Cavil just stated that they were programmed by the original programmers. So who did the programming? The final five? Maybe. However, more likely it was the original programmers of the Human style cylons copying what they learned from the final five. Copying human style cylons that had already integrated themselves into the human population.
Okay either way, Cavil just let the cat out of the bag. The Standard Seven, the Raiders, the current centurions, and the hybrids are not self-programmed. However, it seems possible that the final five are.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I'd like to know the extent to the rebellion in the Cylon fleet. Were the 1's, 4's, and 5's all killed everywhere or just on that one basestar?
Looks like Cylon society is unraveling, no longer are they one interconnected race but factions based on development...with the biomechanical models on one side and the fully robotic/Centurions on the other. MMmmm... reminds me of another conflict.
Are the Resurrection ships free of Centurions? Can the SS models maintain control of any baseships?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
1. Clearly they ARE allowed to discuss AND think about the Final Five. I think in Cylon society especially we should differentiate between "not allowed" and "not supposed to" with creatures that can be programmed. They can, they've been told not to, but they do.
2. I think they went to the nebula because they saw where the human fleet was headed and decided to follow. They said as much in the show.
3. I believe that the Final Five are original models that predate the other seven, or if not, they are in some way superior and reprogrammed ALL the others to not know what they look like. Either way they are exceptional.
4. I don't think that violates anything. They didn't generate out of nothingness. They evolved after a fashion. They became self aware, they rebelled, they experimented, they created Hybrids, they create human form cylons, and those creations would have needed to be programmed by some sort of Cylon Maker, be it the centurious or the hybrids or their God, I don't know. They didn't literally buildthemselves and program themselves individually, they programmed each other, and thus as a species they are self-programmed.
But I do think that conversation was groundbreaking. Like Telp, I too am very curious as to the reprecussions throughout the fleet. And I think you can bet that this rebellion will lead directly to D'anna being unboxed. I'd be surprised if they were ALL killed, because I think the Six's and the Boomers would probably be very willing to broker some sort of peace with the humans without the more militaristic Cavils and what not. I think for there to be as much continued conflict they others will have to survive in some form, but I wonder, what reprecussions will there be from untethering the Centurions? Will they now slaughter their masters as they previously did the humans?
Lots of questions. And only 12 more hours (give or take) to do it in.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I wonder why the centurions had the inhibitor added in the first place. I had been under the impression that the centurions and raiders were of subhuman intelligence innately, rather than through an easily removed device. This leaves a bunch of questions left to answer.
1. Why did they even go to human models in the first place? I had always assumed that they collectively decided to make the move to human, and then decided that they still needed the nonsentient centurians for combat duty and manual labor. However, the fact that the Centurions seem to be self aware by design would seem to contradict that.
2. How did they get the jump on the centurions in the first place? While the human models are no slouches in combat, the centurions (especially the upgraded ones) would demolish them in a combat setting. Seeing as they just fought their way to freedom, I can hardly see them submitting before another group of humanlike masters.
3. What caused the rift between the Cylon models anyways? The raiders certainly had no problem responding to one of the final five, even to the point of collectively disobeying the standard seven and pulling out. The other models range from reluctant to consider the five to outright hostility to their existence. At the same time, though, they seem to have little or no information about the five. What is it that they're so scared of, anyways?
4. What is the timeline for the human cylons? The first we see of humanoid development occurs at the very end of the war, but there's no way of knowing how old that project was at the time that Adama found it. We know that Tigh was already in the service by the second year of the first Cylon war. Does the first Hybrid predate this (and therefore likely the original uprising), or were the five around before these experiments began?
5. What about the members of the five that weren't around during the first war? Anders, for example, seems to have been born after the Armistice. What accounts for these age discrepancies?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: ... However, the fact that the Centurions seem to be self aware by design would seem to contradict that
Maybe, maybe not. It might be easier to make something that is sentient and remove functionality, than make something that is almost sentient in functionality but not quite. i.e. easier to grow a mouse and lobotomize it, rather than create an AI that is almost sentient
quote: 2. How did they get the jump on the centurions in the first place? While the human models are no slouches in combat, the centurions (especially the upgraded ones) would demolish them in a combat setting.
Maybe, maybe not. Razor established that the prior models during the first Cylon War were the same as in the original series. They may have built the humanoid models, which then built the centurions and both then gradually supplanted the old. No conflict is necessarily needed.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: 4. What is the timeline for the human cylons? The first we see of humanoid development occurs at the very end of the war, but there's no way of knowing how old that project was at the time that Adama found it. We know that Tigh was already in the service by the second year of the first Cylon war. Does the first Hybrid predate this (and therefore likely the original uprising), or were the five around before these experiments began?
5. What about the members of the five that weren't around during the first war? Anders, for example, seems to have been born after the Armistice. What accounts for these age discrepancies?
The only answer I can see, that would also fit in nicely with influences from the Original Series and the current series' own mythology, is that the Final Five are OLDER and ALIEN to the Cylons created by the 12 Colonies of Man. My theory is that they are surviors from Kobol...perhaps even Lords of Kobol...that found the Cylons shortly after their exodus from the 12 Worlds and influenced their evolution.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: ...
2. How did they get the jump on the centurions in the first place? While the human models are no slouches in combat, the centurions (especially the upgraded ones) would demolish them in a combat setting.
Maybe, maybe not. Razor established that the prior models during the first Cylon War were the same as in the original series. They may have built the humanoid models, which then built the centurions and both then gradually supplanted the old. No conflict is necessarily needed.
That is exactly what happened according to the Razor Podcast... the original Cylons evolved into the humanoid models but kept the shells (upgraded of course) of their former selves to use as warriors. RDM had said originally that the modern Centurions were not inately self aware... but episode "Six of One" contradicts that original story plan... now they are built inately self aware and have that conciousness suppressed all at the same time.
Maybe Mucus is right that it's easier to create a fully functioning AI and then suppress it's conciousness than it is to make an AI that is almost sentient.
Or it was just easier for the writers to have the rebel models pull out something than to have them build new brains for the Centurions.
[ April 13, 2008, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
However, based on how Cavil said it, it still seems to me that the original colonial cylons were programmed to rebel and that self-aware was planned from the start, not an accident. What he infers is that cylons did not program themselves. From a rational standpoint it does not make sense that they would purposely hamper themselves by erasing information about five other cylon models.
Also, I know that Baltar kind of coined the phrase "the Final Five" last season, but could be taking that phrase the wrong way. To me the cylons seem unfinshed. While they currently outnumber the humans, prior to the attack, that certainly was not the case. When you have dramatically fewer numbers than you enemy, complete surprise can become your strongest asset.
Anyways, I think that current cylons are modeled after the older ones, but they never got around to building the rest. We have all pretty much concluded that the final five pre-date the current cylons, so maybe final five not only refer to five models of colonial human cylons that do not exist, but also refer the final five remaining survivors of the original cylon race. That's why the timelines don't add up for Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders. Also why Tyrol so clearly remembers his parents.
I have always wondered why the current human cylon models were so obsessed with being able to biologically reproduce. Maybe because the original Kobol cylons could? Maybe the final five are cylons, but are completely natural born and the final five of their species. Maybe the original programmers of the colonial cylons were the parents of one of the five.
I don't know. I'm not trying to put forth any grand unified theories here, just trying to see all of the possibilities.
BTW, I don't know if you all caught this from the teaser for next week's episode, but Kara says things in it that make her sound like she's been downloaded into a new body.
Even if that were true, it still doesn't make her a cylon. You could say that maybe one of the things cylons figured was how to download humans too. Maybe Leoban loved Kara so much that he couldn't just let her die. So at the moment of death, the Raider near her helped her download, she was loaded into a new body, programmed with the location of "Earth" and sent on her way in a brand new viper. Or maybe she is a hybrid and has ability to download anyway.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Also, I agree with Mucus, once you know how to make a fully functioning AI, it would be simply easier to dumb it down, or limit its free will, then trying to design it that way.
For instance, maybe you want the ability to upgrade if it ever becomes necessary. Or maybe they were originally designed to be fully aware, but proved too dangerous, so they were inhibited instead of scrapping the whole line and starting fresh.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
Great ep. I'd really like them to tell us why Hera's blood won't cure Roslin again, though, that glaring plot hole is really bothering me right now, especially since she seems like she's going to die this time.
Also, how is Kara's new ship going to contact the fleet if they find Earth? They'll be so far away, unless both paths happen to take them to Earth.
With regard to Sharon being number 8... I hope they aborted number 7, and that the final five are actually 9-13. Cause otherwise it makes very little sense.
And oh yeah, how bout Baltar seeing himself instead of Six? What's that all about??
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
"I'd really like them to tell us why Hera's blood won't cure Roslin again, though, that glaring plot hole is really bothering me right now, especially since she seems like she's going to die this time." My fiance's brother has cancer and treatments that were showing promise no longer work so this plot hole doesn't bother me too much....it could be a rare form of space cancer or something
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
It may have been the deleted scenes or just in an interview, but they covered the blood cure thing. If I remember right, Roslin has built up an immunity to Hera's blood.
It would be a similar situation as when a mother and a baby have atypical blood types. A woman could have her first baby and everything would be just fine, but her body builds up an immunity to the baby's blood and if the next fetus has the same blood type as its sibling, the mother's antibodies can attack and kill the fetus. Or something like that. My wife and I have that problem. Roslin's cure was a one time only kind of thing. Plus, fetal core blood contains alot of stem cells, wereas regular blood after you are born does not. That could have something to do with it as well.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
Yeah, a build up of resistance is a fair enough explanation, it just seems like one they should have worked into the show. But I'll probably assume that's what the case is.
And I'll probably ignore the Sharon as 8 thing, I'm sure it was just something the writers didn't think about since the 12 cylon models were not initially planned out.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Now that Baltar is seeing himself, I wonder if Caprica6 is gonna start seeing HERself now. Maybe they somehow traded parasites.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Or maybe Baltar is just more in love with himself now than the Six.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Though remember when Baltar asked his look-alike if he was Six in disguise and Head Baltar said why would she need to disguise herself. Implies to me that instead of being the same agent in different form there are at least two, three if you count the Leoben in Starbuck's head.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Or, you know, Baltar really is crazy. Crazy brilliant.
That's not something I'd count out at all. Baltar, while talking to his little figments, managed to save his own skin I think four times now when he should have either died or suffered a lot more than he did. I think that his subconcious created these other figments to help him survive, since Baltar, though brilliant, just can't deal with some of these things head on.
The only thing really holding me back from believing that is the fact that Caprica Six has a Baltar in her head. That REALLY throws me. I've been working under a sort of belief that they're all interconnected in some way, like Roslin, Six, Hera and Athena all dreaming together, and Baltar and Six sharing in each other's subconcious, but now I just don't know. But if Baltar or Roslin aren't the last Cylon, I'm going to be very, very interested in how they explain that one.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Even if one of them *is* the last Cylon, the other one's most probably not a Cylon. If they explain Baltar or Rosling that way there's still one explanation to be had. I'm very curious about that too.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Well, Baltar isn't completely crazy, because his Head Six has been showing him things that really would not probable that he would be creating on his own in his own imagination. As for Head Baltar? Uh.................
However, again, you are forgetting that we are not counting Hera and Nicky Tyrol in the cylon count. If we are willing to consider Kara a hybrid, why not Baltar? That would actually explain alot about Baltar without making him the last cylon.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
So we're opening the door to Baltar, maybe Roslin, and others having had Cylon/Human parents? I find that hard to believe, only because Roslin and Baltar must know what their parents look like, unless they were both raised by single parents (wouldn't be surprised I guess if that came out). I don't see Kara's mom as the last Cylon for a lot of reasons. She was in one episode, she isn't even a character really, it wouldn't really be that surprising or that much of a mind bender, and Moore has said before that the last Cylon is one they've been considering since the first season.
I'm wondering if maybe Roslin and Baltar both had Six parents that left them with their fathers. Baltar ran away as a child from Arelan didn't he? Maybe he doesn't even remember his mother. That might explain their connections to Caprica Six. Other than that, I dunno.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Is the comic BSG Origins canon?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Or, you know, Baltar really is crazy. Crazy brilliant.
That's not something I'd count out at all. Baltar, while talking to his little figments, managed to save his own skin I think four times now when he should have either died or suffered a lot more than he did. I think that his subconcious created these other figments to help him survive, since Baltar, though brilliant, just can't deal with some of these things head on.
I can't cite anything offhand, but hasn't head six provided information that Baltar has no way of knowing?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Or, you know, Baltar really is crazy. Crazy brilliant.
That's not something I'd count out at all. Baltar, while talking to his little figments, managed to save his own skin I think four times now when he should have either died or suffered a lot more than he did. I think that his subconcious created these other figments to help him survive, since Baltar, though brilliant, just can't deal with some of these things head on.
I can't cite anything offhand, but hasn't head six provided information that Baltar has no way of knowing?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:I can't cite anything offhand, but hasn't head six provided information that Baltar has no way of knowing? [/QB]
Yes. Both he and head Six have known things that their hosts could not possibly know. Six knew about the baby that was yet to be born, knew about the confrontation that would happen at the "Home of the Gods" Kobol, knew that Baltar shouldn't be on Galactica, she knew about and guided Baltar to the Opera House and all the visions therein, etc...
The big duzy that Head Baltar told Caprica Six about was that Tigh's wife had died.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I suppose that the 'Several Hybrids' theory actually supports the whole 'Extinction through evolution' theory that people predict from the Razor Hybrid. I'm pretty sure that the number of part-Cylons would tend to increase exponentially throughout the generations. Perhaps the timeline that Kara creates through leading the way to earth is the only one that doesn't end with the Cylon gene-pool fading out.
Maybe if they had reached earth through some other less direct means, then Galactica might have had time to find all the Cylons and part-Cylons and eliminate them before they really start reproducing, but in finding Earth that much sooner, the universal relief surely felt by Humanity leads to higher birth rates and a stronger probability of the Cylonoids™ surviving.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
New episode on tonight... and every hour till 5pm on scifi.com!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Argh. I can't watch it at work, and we don't have cable at home, so I have to download it and watch it tomorrow. It's really not that big a deal, but I hate knowing that I theoretically could be watching it today.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
When does it go up on hulu.com?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OMG... Seriously messed up episode. Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Dang- I can't believe they just did what they did!
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: When does it go up on hulu.com?
Not until tomorrow morning. On the upside, Hulu is a lot faster getting Eps up that iTunes was, plus they are FREEEEEEEE!!!!!!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Dang- I can't believe they just did what they did!
Yeah, me neither. That's really the only thing I can say to that right now.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
WOW! Good episode!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Also, BSG definitely seems to be on the right track this season. They've been doing a really good job so far of setting up multiple storylines and letting them run naturally.
Season three always felt really off to me because even when they came up with good storylines (such as the one with the refinery, for example), they were always introduced abruptly with almost no setup. So far, the seem to have convinced the networks to back off and let them do the show the way they want to.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ah! Brainstorm. The trinary star system Starbuck saw is Alpha Centuari! Proxima!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
[spoilers]
I'm going to be busy tonight so let me post now while I have a chance.
To see the Cylon civil war really get going was awesome! I'm dying to see this central resurrection Hub too. Is it a station/ship or on a planet?
The problems between Tyrol and Cally have been exacerbated 50 fold with the Chief's discovery of what he is... he's been avoiding Cally and she's sunk into depression and the lack of sleep and the pills to help with it are just making her rage at the suspected affair and then her terror of discovering her love is a Cylon uncontrollable. And as someone who suffers from depression I think they did a good job showing the desperation and hoplessness of the lowest parts. Love the tunnel vision and the garbled voices from her perspective.
Her disgust too that her own son is an abomination...and the oposite desire to save him from the Cylons.
But holy cow... Tori is freaked up... and STRONG. That Cylon slap proves that she's not a normal person.
I'm SO MAD though that they've killed her!!! She and the Chief were the sane heart of the show... I guess that made them perfect targets in the end. No one is safe... and that makes for great TV!
[ April 19, 2008, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
What I'm wondering is whether all the six/eights took out the inhibitors and faced off against the Cavils, or if it was just the particular group on the ship. I do agree with Cavil that they've opened up a huge can of worms by freeing the centurions. From the centurions' point of view, I can't see why they'd be any more willing to accept subjection from the humanoid cylons any more than from the humans. They might be able to get by if the centurions are offered a full equal voice in voting, but given the history of enslavement I really don't see that happening. I suspect that it's only a matter of time before the centurions (and possibly the raiders?) decide to rise up.
The whole secret government issue is something that has been played with on and off several times over the course of the show, but with Apollo heading things up it looks like this theme will take a lot more center stage.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Mmmm... I wonder if maybe Nicky is the 5th Cylon... *ponders*
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
[spoilers, but if you haven't had a chance to watch it online by now, you are totally missing out!!!]
I had read online about Cally, but still actually seeing it happen...wow. Really powerful stuff. Tory is definately going to get really freaky. I wonder what her story is going to be about how Cally died.
Now while it looked like the Cavil faction was blowing the crap out of the Natalie faction, you know that they are going to full some sort of McGuffin to make sure that they don't all get totally blown away. Still, I knew that the Civil War was coming, but I didn't see the Cavil's betrayal coming at all. I was actually taken by surprise when the other ships started shooting. Very cool.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: What I'm wondering is whether all the six/eights took out the inhibitors and faced off against the Cavils, or if it was just the particular group on the ship. I do agree with Cavil that they've opened up a huge can of worms by freeing the centurions. From the centurions' point of view, I can't see why they'd be any more willing to accept subjection from the humanoid cylons any more than from the humans. They might be able to get by if the centurions are offered a full equal voice in voting, but given the history of enslavement I really don't see that happening. I suspect that it's only a matter of time before the centurions (and possibly the raiders?) decide to rise up.
This is the critical strategic point... because if the rebellion was limited to just those few Basestars no problem... but if ALL the 6's, 2's, and 8's rebelled everywhere at the same time... well that means at least half of the Centurions are self aware now... if not all.
AH! But in this newest episode Boomer tells Cavil that the Fleet is split down the middle (and what about that kiss! Holy crap!). So I guess this is going to be a serious Civil War...and a first strike at the Natalie faction, not just trying to weed out an infection.
What about the Centurions on the Cavil/Old Guard faction? Are they self aware now too or were they able to prevent it and they are happy, brainless soldiers the humanoid models can control easily? I would assume so because if not the Natalie faction will win in the end... or shall I say the Centurion faction will win in the end. The only hope for the Standard Seven Models is that they can be reborn...so even if the Centurions kill all the SS on all the Baseships they'll wake up on their Resurrection Ships. But those ships are pretty defenseless and if they are wiped out the SS are doomed.
They'll be forced to flee and ally themselves with the Humans...
[ April 18, 2008, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
--j_k
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
Wow. HARDCORE.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
DO NOT WANT!!!
DO NOT WANT!!!
Damn it. I am NOT okay with this. Damn you Ron D. Moore. You pulling a fracking Joss Whedon.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Wow. I hadn't seen any spoilers, although I pretty much saw Cally's death coming as soon as Tory noticed the open panel. Is she acting evil because she's a Cylon? Was she always this way?
I think it's interesting that Tory chose to save the kid. It reminded me a bit of Six's protectiveness toward Hera.
Hey, did anyone catch the number on the weapons locker? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah I saw her death as soon as Tory saw the panel too. Tory is just bats**t crazy now. I think six's intentions towards Hera were far more noble. Tory I think just saw a Cylon in danger and killed Callie in the process.
I don't think this is a Joss yet. Did any of us care about Callie the way many of us cared about the characters that Joss has killed off? And for that matter, many of the deaths Joss instituted were senseless. They came out of nowhere and served little function other than to shock the viewer, and he's stated as much as that being his intention. Callie's death I think will fit snugly into the plot. Adama will likely rule it a suicide, and any questions raised will be quashed by Tigh. But I really wonder how this will effect Tyrol.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
*sigh* I cared about Cally. She's been around since the miniseries and she was awesome! Personally I thought Boomer would have been better for Tyrol, but I didn't want Cally to die at all. But then, I'm kinda an empath, so I get way more connected to characters I like much faster than a lot of people. It's why I can't watch sit comms or embarrassment comedy. I just feel bad for the characters.
But Tory's gone completely evil. She set up the whole issue about the affair thing. She saw Cally come into the bar in the mirror. And that's when she started really coming on to Tyrol and rubbing his arm like that. Tory's gone totally manipulative, Six style. God only knows what she's putting in Roslin's head o_O
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:Hey, did anyone catch the number on the weapons locker?
Yes. That was awesome. I pointed it out to nathan right away (well, after I stopped laughing).
quote:It reminded me a bit of Six's protectiveness toward Hera.
Actually, the way some scenes were shot, they were reminiscent of Six's movements and how she stood when holding Hera, etc. I also commented on that. However, Tory's manipulativeness seems more evil than original caprica/head six's actions. I can't quite put my finger on why though. I mean, original six paved the way for a successful tactical nuclear strike on the twelve colonies. tory has just manipulated a few people to incite one person to suicide, talk that person down to get their child, and then proceed to kill that person anyway. Maybe it's that Six gave a crap about some things and the audience knew it, while Tory, we can't quite see what she cares about other than her own agenda. Right now, even Baltar is more sympathetic.
Also, about the Centurions, I still love how Natalie has to say, "Please." Makes me giggle.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Okay, I didn't notice the number. What was it?
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: Okay, I didn't notice the number. What was it?
1701-D. I thought it might be significant, but I had to look it up afterward
--j_k
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
So did Cavil's side wipe out all of Natalie's side?
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
I hope not. The Civil war is one of the more interesting aspects of this season. It would be a shame to end it that fast. Also I'm hating Boomer right now.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Yeah, I can't imagine that the civil war plot would be over so quickly. I'm guessing that either some of them escaped or that some stayed behind and managed to avoid the trap.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Did any of us care about Callie the way many of us cared about the characters that Joss has killed off?
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: *sigh* I cared about Cally. She's been around since the miniseries and she was awesome! Personally I thought Boomer would have been better for Tyrol, but I didn't want Cally to die at all. But then, I'm kinda an empath, so I get way more connected to characters I like much faster than a lot of people. It's why I can't watch sit comms or embarrassment comedy. I just feel bad for the characters.
But Tory's gone completely evil. She set up the whole issue about the affair thing. She saw Cally come into the bar in the mirror. And that's when she started really coming on to Tyrol and rubbing his arm like that. Tory's gone totally manipulative, Six style. God only knows what she's putting in Roslin's head o_O
I am in complete agreement with you Alcon.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I've liked Cally ever since she bit that guy's ear off on the prison ship.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I think my most favorite character is Laura Roslin. I hope they don't deconstruct her too much in the coming year... what am I saying, of course they will, it's already begun. I just hope they don't kill her off! Or that at the least if they do take her into the dark she has a chance to come out again before the end.
So far her actions have been noble and just...everything she's done has been for the good of Humanity...and while in a world with 12 Colonies and 50 billion people her actions might be wrong and punishable, in this period of critical threat to the species any means necessary for our survival can and should be used.
But from what I've been reading on the boards people are turning against her left and right. Oh she's a tyrant, oh she's so mean, oh we don't like her anymore. Hey, I would say, she's become a strong leader at long last! I love the way Roslin is now...but I don't like where I think she might be going. Maybe she's having the same problems that Mon Mothma had in that Tim Zahn trilogy... acumulating power because she's a micromanager and is afraid other folk can't handle it but is doing it with the best intentions. But hey, isn't that how most tyrants start out? No matter what dark path they may take her down and how low she'll fall Laura is still the savior of the Human Race.
[ April 19, 2008, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
BSG's writers destroy every single relationship.
Think about it. Baltar and Six; Starbuck and Apollo (and their spouses); Tigh and his wife; the captain of the Pegasus and the Cylon. Now Tyroll and Callie.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I still say we wouldn't want lunatics like this coming anywhere near earth. The "toasters" and the "skin-jobs" aren't the only monsters. They're all monsters!
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
I wonder if it's selfish of them to try to find Earth. Isn't bringing the war right to the last enclave of humanity risking genocide?
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:I still say we wouldn't want lunatics like this coming anywhere near earth. The "toasters" and the "skin-jobs" aren't the only monsters. They're all monsters!
Pot. Meet Kettle.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Ok, I think the muse was watching over my sleep last night, cause I came up with a few theories just before passing out.
The first one is about the final five. What if the final five are as different from the SS as the SS are from the Centurions? More specifically, what if they've transcended beyond the physical? One possibility I see is that the minds of the final five are not limited to any particular body and perhaps they were downloaded into normal human infants. This also helps to explain the latest Kara developments about how she feels disembodied. Perhaps they somehow managed to keep her psyche and transfered it to a new body. This would also support the possibility that she's a hybrid OR...
My next theory: What if the "Humans" aren't human at all? What if they all only THINK they're humans? "All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again." Obviously, this struggle between "Humans" and Cylons is a recurring situation. What if the REAL humans didn't really win the last time around? How many generations would it take for them to forget that they AREN'T really humans? After all, skin jobs are virtually indistinguishable from regular humans anyway right?
Furthermore, what if the REAL humans are all on Earth, and so when the Hybrid from Razor said that Kara would lead the way to humanities destruction, he wasn't talking about the crews and passengers of the fleet, because they AREN'T human. He was talking about the only true humans left: Those who escaped to Earth.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Few random thoughts to add to the board here.
First off, I am drained of theory, all I can do now is just watch and let the experience wash over me like waves on the sand. Seriously, my brain is empty now. This week's ep..zip, nada, nothing. I liked it but I have no further insight to share. Very strange I must say.
Second, Wowbagger I am infinitely jealous of your name. Dang it, why didn't I think of that? Very cool.
Sylvrdragon, I put forth a similar theory last year, but I really like your spin on that. I had been operating under the idea that humanity keeps surviving. However, what if they didn't? At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see RDM and company pull something like that on us as the endgame.
Now excuse me while I go light a candle in the memory of Cally. I was fond of her, but she got really whiny after she had Nicky. I think that her experience on New Caprica really amped up her neediness and inferiority complex.
Oh and yeah, I agree, Tory is freaking me out. That girl is going dark fast.
BTW, did anyone notice from the previews next week that Tigh is getting his very own head angel? I'm all a tingle!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Is she acting evil because she's a Cylon? Was she always this way?
She's always seemed a little amoral and manipulative to me. I imagine that it's stepped up a notch now that she is keeping a secret that would pretty much result in her immediate death if it was ever found out.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Ok, I think the muse was watching over my sleep last night, cause I came up with a few theories just before passing out.
The first one is about the final five. What if the final five are as different from the SS as the SS are from the Centurions? More specifically, what if they've transcended beyond the physical? One possibility I see is that the minds of the final five are not limited to any particular body and perhaps they were downloaded into normal human infants. This also helps to explain the latest Kara developments about how she feels disembodied. Perhaps they somehow managed to keep her psyche and transfered it to a new body. This would also support the possibility that she's a hybrid OR...
My next theory: What if the "Humans" aren't human at all? What if they all only THINK they're humans? "All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again." Obviously, this struggle between "Humans" and Cylons is a recurring situation. What if the REAL humans didn't really win the last time around? How many generations would it take for them to forget that they AREN'T really humans? After all, skin jobs are virtually indistinguishable from regular humans anyway right?
Furthermore, what if the REAL humans are all on Earth, and so when the Hybrid from Razor said that Kara would lead the way to humanities destruction, he wasn't talking about the crews and passengers of the fleet, because they AREN'T human. He was talking about the only true humans left: Those who escaped to Earth.
We are forgetting something important, remember when Tigh said "Baltar's Cylon detector was junk didn't even catch boomer"
Now remember how it actually DID catch boomer and Baltar thinking his life at risk turned it green?
He had tested numerous people before that his detector does work, and it can distinguish humans from cylons.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
That's right--and they tested everyone on the ship, too. So how did they miss the final five Cylons?
Let's just face it--the writers have already blown the story hopelessly beyond repair. At this point, they might as well send in Doctor Who.
Of course, I was so disenamored of the show back when they were on that planet playing the roll of living in a POW camp, that I simply stopped watching it for all the rest of the season.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Imagine that. Ron disengaged the four episodes widely considered to be some of the best and most controversial of the series. I mean Exodus won an emmy.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Alcon, this is a thread about BSG. Whatever issues you have with Ron, this is not the time or place for them.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:Alcon, this is a thread about BSG. Whatever issues you have with Ron, this is not the time or place for them.
Sorry, I've been really stressed lately and I think my normal snark filter has disengaged.
It doesn't help that Ron came into a thread about BSG to say that he basically didn't like any of the characters in the show, and then that it's screwed up and he stopped watching it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: That's right--and they tested everyone on the ship, too. So how did they miss the final five Cylons?
Let's just face it--the writers have already blown the story hopelessly beyond repair. At this point, they might as well send in Doctor Who.
Of course, I was so disenamored of the show back when they were on that planet playing the roll of living in a POW camp, that I simply stopped watching it for all the rest of the season.
Ron you are so horribly mistaken, Baltar himself said when he first began work on it that at the rate he could practically test everyone aboard the ship it would take some 15 years to do. The only person we KNOW he tested and didn't tell us the result is Adama senior.
Why the frak do I know all the little details? Like jeez, people even went as far as arguing with me over the origin of Atlantis in Stargate, it originated on EARTH people X million years ago! Then went to Atlantis! First episode showed this!
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
After Boomer, I don't think that the detector every truly worked again. At the end of the Ep with Ellen, Head Six stated to Baltar that it was too bad that the detector said that everyone was human nowadays. It worked at some point, but we don't know at what point he broke it. At the end of the episode, the only person that we know got tested was Ellen.
Whether it worked or not is not irrelevant. If Baltar knew that anyone else was a cylon he would have figured it out before now. In fact, he wouldn't have spent all that time with D'anna trying to figure out who the final five are. He broke sometime after Boomer and before Ellen. It's moot to try and figure out if the detector would have identified any of the five as cylons. The story has moved past that and it has become a footnote.
Blayne, you are correct, but he was referring to the entire fleet. The Galatica would have only taken a few months. Still time was not on their side.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
It's entirely possible that the Final Five might not get picked up by a detector that can identify the other seven models. Moore and Co. have taken pains to emphasize that the Final Five are fundamentally different from the Basestar Buddies, after all.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
also theres no evidence to presuppose they did the galactica first heck they should have done Adama first by your argument but they didn't, meaning that they much have done it the only logical way from this evidence they did it first come first serve so all the DNA with names and serial numbers brough to him one batch at a time by whatever got their first meaning its entirely possible that they missed Tigh and the others.
Also remember that barely a year went by when he was doing the tests out of 15 not enough time, it is entirely possible and plausible that they missed those 5 and once Baltar became president he wouldnt have had time to do the tests.
Then there's the fact that after Boomber shot Adana they would have thought the tests didnt work and not continue testing people after what? a relatively brief time.
After you eliminate the impossible you are left with your answer.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Actually, Baltar said it would take upwards of 60 years to test the entire ~48000 survivors (at that point), and that wasn't including downtime for stuff like sleep and whatnot. I don't remember offhand how many people are on Galactica, but at 11 hours per test, and only one test at a time (Season1 Episode9 "Tigh me up, Tigh and down"), I must assume that it alone would take several years.
Besides, the exact lines from the scene in question are:
Head Six: If only they knew that everyone passed the ____ test (couldn't make that part out, but it's irrelevent).
Baltar: Well, it's so much simpler that way. No muss, no fuss.
Head Six: So... What did the test really say? (While looking at Adama, who was in the room at the time)
Baltar: I'll never tell.
Episode ends.
So you see, the test wasn't broken at all. Head Six was merely commenting on everyone else's ignorance of Baltar's actions in falsifying his results. Furthermore, Adama could still be a Cylon and only Baltar knows (maybe he just forgot in the later episodes when he was asking about the Final Five?). That would kinda fit in with the whole "Been playing around with the idea since the first Season" thing. Though I'll admit, I don't like this theory all that much as it would create a couple continuity errors (Baltar's aforementioned forgetfulness). Can't rule it out completely though.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: also theres no evidence to presuppose they did the galactica first heck they should have done Adama first by your argument but they didn't, meaning that they much have done it the only logical way from this evidence they did it first come first serve so all the DNA with names and serial numbers brough to him one batch at a time by whatever got their first meaning its entirely possible that they missed Tigh and the others.
Also remember that barely a year went by when he was doing the tests out of 15 not enough time, it is entirely possible and plausible that they missed those 5 and once Baltar became president he wouldnt have had time to do the tests.
Then there's the fact that after Boomber shot Adana they would have thought the tests didnt work and not continue testing people after what? a relatively brief time.
After you eliminate the impossible you are left with your answer.
Missed this post before I replied. Actually, they were supposed to do Adama first (Roslin insisted), but at that same time, Elen (Tigh's wife) showed up out of the blue and Adama told Baltar to test her first. That was actually the point of the episode. When Roslin found out that Adama had his test canceled to do Elen's, she told Baltar to stop Elen's and continue Adama's. Then she found out who Elen was and called him back and told him to reverse it again. In the end, everyone was in Baltar's lab after he got EVERYONE'S test results. This is when the lines in the above post were said.
I didn't rewatch any of the episodes directly after this one, so I don't remember if they even went back to the tests or not. I suppose I'll probably watch the next ep now and find out. I'll post again if I find something.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: She's always seemed a little amoral and manipulative to me. I imagine that it's stepped up a notch now that she is keeping a secret that would pretty much result in her immediate death if it was ever found out.
To be honest, I think that the Cylon revelation is a bit of a red herring and that none of the four actually has had their behaviour change specifically as a result of being a Cylon, no latent commands or the like. No, I think for the next few episodes (and watch me be easily proved wrong in the next episode) is that the four will cause/suffer a lot of problems due to their expectations of what it is to be a cylon, rather than due to actually being one. For example, Tori giving into the dark side of being human using the excuse of being a Cylon to silence her conscience, the same way that some drunk people use alcohol to allow themselves to do whatever they want... and the horrifying realisation that afterwards, that she was responsible for all her own actions and no Cylon explanation for becoming dark..
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: But from what I've been reading on the boards people are turning against her left and right ... Maybe she's having the same problems that Mon Mothma had in that Tim Zahn trilogy...
I like that observation, its a nice parallel. To be honest, I haven't really turned against her yet. For example, as a viewer, we naturally sympathise with Starbuck, we think she's real, but from Roslin's perspective she's really quite correct. In fact, I wonder if a surprise ending will be Starbuck finding out that she really did die in Maelstrom or something similar. There are a fair number of science fiction shows where someone has to come back and prove that they are themselves, that it might be worthwhile in the writers minds to subvert that cliche.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
To be honest, the whole Cylon biology thing is really starting to stretch my suspension of disbelief. IIRC, so they know that there are synthetic chemicals present when burning a Cylon, they have luminescent spines, some way of connecting to a fibre optic cable through their wrists, and some mechanism for resurrection, and superior strength. However, there is still no reliable test for testing whether someone (like Starbuck from the POV of the fleet) is an "old school" humanoid Cylon. On the other hand, their biology is close enough to interbreed with humans...
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Well, to be fair, Moore has admitted that the glowing spines were a bit silly- IIRC we haven't seen them since the first season, and Moore said somewhere that they won't be back.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: To be honest, the whole Cylon biology thing is really starting to stretch my suspension of disbelief. IIRC, so they know that there are synthetic chemicals present when burning a Cylon, they have luminescent spines, some way of connecting to a fibre optic cable through their wrists, and some mechanism for resurrection, and superior strength. However, there is still no reliable test for testing whether someone (like Starbuck from the POV of the fleet) is an "old school" humanoid Cylon. On the other hand, their biology is close enough to interbreed with humans...
There is an reliable test, just not one that people think is reliable.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Whatever, a known reliable test Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: I do agree with Cavil that they've opened up a huge can of worms by freeing the centurions.
"All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
You know what that could refer to? The Lords of Kobol created humanity to worship (read: serve) them. Humanity didn't work out, Humanity left Kobol after some sort of calamity or war.
Humanity created the Cylons to serve them. Cylons rebel, big war, Cylons leave.
Cylons evolve, create Centurians to serve them. Centurians rebel, big war.
Repeat ad infinitum.
It might not mean necessarily a human-cylon cycle, but rather something else. Rather a cycle of a species playing god, and then its creations rebelling, destroying their creator or simply leaving it and surpassing eventually creator. Only to have the same thing happen to them.
Editted: Somehow this post ended up in the Presidential Primary Discussion Thread even though I KNOW I used the Quick Reply box in this thread to initially post it...
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Popping in to say: I started the series last Saturday and am now up to date as of 30 minutes ago.
This week has been a blur of BSG.
My favorite episode: Starbuck commandeering the Cylon Raider and making it home just in time.
My least favorite episode: The most recent one with Calli out the airlock. Calli and Tirrel were my favorite characters. Why Tirrel would ever let that relationship go south, I don't understand. And killing her off? It would be like if Joss killed off Kaylee--at least that's how I felt about her.
It took me long enough to finally be convinced that I should start watching. It didn't take me very long at all to realize this was one of the greatest shows I'd ever watched.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well to be fair, Tyrol did have a lot of issues, and a LOT of stuff happened to them that strained their marriage, plus their jobs and having a baby. But in the end he tried to make amends, it just didn't click right.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Launchywiggin:
Least favorite? As compared to Black Market and The Woman King?!!
This one wasn't perfect, of course, and it was sad to see what happened... but I never really like Callie. The Cylon Civil War is making up for any shortcoming elsewhere, and they finally have something useful to do with Helo and Athena again.
Are you sure you aren't mistaking feeling sad at what happened with disliking the episode? They aren't one and the same, after all.
And it also just goes to prove... this season, anyone can die.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Least favorite? As compared to Black Market and The Woman King?!!
I actually didn't mind the Black Market, although I agree about The Woman King. So far, I'd say that my least favorite episode war Unfinished Business. Besides the fact that I didn't like the episode, I also felt that this was the point where season three really took a nose dive in terms of quality.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Well, it did get the Quadrangle of Doom really rolling, I'll give you that.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Hheheh... I liked the Quad of Doom myself.
I really liked Season 3 in it's entirety...even though the mid-late episodes left the grand arc they developed the characters and civilization that was developing on the ships of the fleet.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I'm not sure about "least favorite", but the last episode was definitely among my favorites. Side topics are ok, but they've got important topics to see to an end during this season, and it seems like they're advancing in most of them. (I'm still wondering what's with the Caprica Six, Roslin and Athena in the opera hall thing.)
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I watched all of these back-to-back just this week, so I have to go back and look up all the episode titles you guys are talking about. I don't remember any specific episodes being all that bad, just moments where the writing/acting/storyline was a little off. The Black market episode and the Woman King were your regular character development type episodes.
I'm not mistaking anything when I say "least favorite". That's how I felt, not an objective analysis of how well it was written and acted. I'm not saying it wasn't well done, just that it's my least favorite in terms of what happened. So, to agree with you, it's my least favorite because it's so sad--with the cylons turning on each other, Starbuck being shunned, and the fleet slowly deteriorating into chaos--very depressing episode.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Heh. In general, the sadder an episode is, the MORE I'm likely to like it. There's a reason why "The Body" is among my favorite episodes of Buffy. I'm much more likely to hate an episode if I feel like the plot twists are contrived or the dialogue is hackneyed/ anvilicious- hence my distaste for "The Passage" and "The Woman King." Fortunately, BSG's actors are, for the most part, all good enough that bad acting is almost never the issue.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
To clarify, I'm not saying that sad = bad episode. I like sad episodes, too. There's no doubt that this is an intense and often depressing show. I guess I just really wanted to see Calli and Tirrel win in the end.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: In general, the sadder an episode is, the MORE I'm likely to like it.
Yeah, me too. I loved the start of S3, there was a relentlessness to it that reminded me of S1, and in turn of Titus Andronicus, of all things.
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
I'm somewhat upset. They killed my favorite minor character.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:Heh. In general, the sadder an episode is, the MORE I'm likely to like it. There's a reason why "The Body" is among my favorite episodes of Buffy. [Wink] I'm much more likely to hate an episode if I feel like the plot twists are contrived or the dialogue is hackneyed/ anvilicious- hence my distaste for "The Passage" and "The Woman King." Fortunately, BSG's actors are, for the most part, all good enough that bad acting is almost never the issue.
I hate depressing TV and movies. That's not why I watch TV or movies. The same goes for books actually. I can recognize it as well done. But I don't enjoy it, and if I don't enjoy it it beats the point. I didn't enjoy last weeks episode.
I can take some depression, but it needs to be linked with good. As in the final arc of Buffy's Season Six where it's 4 episodes of pain but with such a bittersweet ending so as to make it worth it.
It remains to be seen whether or not there will be enough happiness, or bittersweet linked with Cally's death for me to eventually like the arc that includes it... thus far I'm not liking it.
I mean above and beyond it being sad, the way it came at the end of an episode like that with little to no follow up. And the way you thought Tory was going to talk her down from it... it felt empty. The point was simply the uttershock. It was a Whedon. As with Tara and Wash's deaths. Unexpected, largely pointless, and with no in show time for mourning.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
i think cally wouldve blown the whistle.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
After bringing Starbuck back from the dead, I wonder if they felt that they had to kill off someone that fans like for the sake of reestablishing that the characters actually are in danger.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Now that is a Whedonian rationalization.
I think Whedon half killed his characters just for shock and half to remind you of their mortality. Though, frankly I think Whedon has bigger issues since he refuses to let any of his relationships settle happily, they are always either constant fits of turmoil and betrayal or are composed of stubborn twosomes that never fire on all cylinders, and he can never let us keep the characters we fall most in love with, the quirky ones.
I think he has an issue with letting his viewing audience be happy, for whatever reason.
Moore I think on the other hand probably killed Callie for a couple reasons. 1. Stir up intrigue in the ship. SOMEONE had to find out these guys were Cylons, or else there'd be no storyline on the ship, so now there are questions. 2. Push Tyrol. He's been waffling, and leaning towards Callie and some sort of settling of his issues, and since he won't know that what's her name killed Callie, they'll draw closer (setting up the inevitable instance where Tyrol learns the truth and offs her) and he'll hate Callie as a result, thinking she went off on him and committed suicide. 3. Yes, to remind us of their mortality, since it has been so long since an actual character was killed, let alone a recurring one.
Her death wasn't just shock value, it'll have major reprecussions.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
Also, it's not like the ending of Serenity, where we have major character death about 15 minutes before the end of the movie. Yes, the episode ended abruptly, but we have an entire season left to deal with it!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I hope they actually show some more mourning for Cally...al la Starbuck. We'll see...
What time does the episode start to show up on scifi.com?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I think they've stopped doing that - from what I can see, they're only showing a promo tomorrow at noon, not the full episode anymore.
They might be up after the television showing, though - I haven't a clue.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Well that just stinks. At least they didn't stop last week, though, since I had no tv access all weekend starting from a few hours before the show was aired. If it hadn't been available online beforehand, I think I would have gone crazy. I'm surprised I didn't see it announced anywhere, though.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
It's on, but the sound is off synch for me.
Edit: And it just got randomly cut off partway through the episode. I suppose that clears up exactly what was meant by a preview. I still don't get why they don't just do it like last week, I mean, they're still getting ads in every couple minutes.
Edit again:
And now a storm just knocked out sci-fi mid show. It looks like someone doesn't want me to watch this episode.
[ April 25, 2008, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: ricree101 ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
This is one trippy episode.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
If you miss out on the show when it broadcasts, you can catch it on hulu.com, legally.
Also, I totally agree. One trippy episode.
Also, also, Lee really, really needs a haircut.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
But if he gets a haircut, he can't show off how civiliany he is now. I wonder what will happen when Lee reports back to Roslin about Tory's presence at the meeting, or if it's not even that big a deal. It looks like stuff hits the fan next episode.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OMFG... Head Six has power over the physical world!!!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah that was weird.
She's never yet taken such direct control over his body before, literally making him do things he expressed a desire NOT to do. That was new.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
She's for sure not a halucination of any kind. Nice to see some physical proof after all this time.
Posted by aeolusdallas (Member # 11455) on :
I am now completely convinced that head six is an "angel" of the 13th lord of Kobol. The one that wanted to place himself above the other 12. Head Six kept harping on how the other gods had to be destroyed and how they were fighting back. I don't think she was being completely metaphorical.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You think that proved that she was real but somehow invisible in both sight and sound to everyone but Baltar?
I don't know what she is specifically, but I do think that she's in his head, and I think that she's not real in the sense that she isn't corporeal, she can't manipulate the real world. I think she took control of his body and made it move in a way that made it look like she was picking him up, but really he was just getting up really awkwardly as he fought her control. It was a physical display of the mental battle.
Still, nice to see her back and Head Gaius gone.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
What about the episode Six Degrees of Seperation? Didn't Head Six show up on Galactica in person and try to frame Baltar? Or was that another Six because she vanished and was never seen from again.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ah ha! And while Shelly Godfree was out in the world Six was gone from his head.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Still, nice to see her back and Head Gaius gone.
I wonder if they're ever going to explain that, or if it was just a random one time thing.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I don't think this ep showed that Head Six has power over the physical world. She simply convinced Baltar that she was lifting him up and his body acted accordingly.
mind > matter
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
Nevertheless, it's pretty clear that at least three of the Fracked Four are starting to lose it, a bit. Tory's becoming much more Cylon-like, while Tyrol and Tigh are both seeing things. No clue about Anders, but they just didn't show him yet. Also, was I the only one that got the impression from Six's reaction to Tigh, there at the very end, that she's kinda figured out what he is?
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Didn't anyone else catch Tyrol's reaction to touching Tori at the funeral? He touched her and he knew something? That was different.
Yes, I agree, one trippy episode.
I don't think that Caprica knows anything about Tigh other than she thinks that she can help him. However I would bet that she is the first of all of the cylons to find out who the frakked four are. Except for D'anna, but she is currently out of commission, so she doesn't count.
Also I agree that Head Six picking up Baltar is new. They did not shoot that to make it look like he was doing it. They shot it to make it look like he was being held up by some invisible force. That was very weird. Not sure how that all fits it. Seems a little too metaphysical for the show, but it definately added a spookiness factor to the scene.
Is she real? It's hard to watch and say that she only exists in Baltar's mind. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that it is impossible for a human body to pull off those positions naturally. I think that if you add that in with the whole Shelly Godfry episode, you have a real case for saying that she really exists.....somehow.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Speaking of D'anna and her visions... The FF are those Beings of Light...which one was she apologizing to at the Eye of Jupiter do you think?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tigh. Although really it could have been any of them.
I'm looking forward to how things go when D'anna comes back. And I'm looking forward to seeing more of the civil war. This week's was mostly setup for future eps I think.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Speaking of D'anna and her visions... The FF are those Beings of Light...which one was she apologizing to at the Eye of Jupiter do you think?
The fifth. Obviously. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Obviously. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
There does seem to be a trend with the eye thing. Red eyes of the Cylons, Eye of Jupiter, Tigh's missing eye, Anders for-one-second red eye. Probably nothing, but a fun little somethin' to notice.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Actually, it was when she apologized that I decided that Tigh had to be one of the final five. So naturally, I still think that who she was apologizing to.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
I agree with Shigosei. I think that D'anna was apolgizing to Tigh.
Also, is it just me or do we not have as much to converse about this season? I mean, I realize that we are 6 pages into this thread, but it seems like that there just isn't a ton of speculation going on around here.
Not that I have anything new to add....... Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Probably because this is like Return of the King... no more setup... all resolution.
Looks like Leoben is coming to Starbucks ship in a heavy Raider. Will he know about where she's been? Was he the one who really saved her instead of some mysterious Lord of Kobol/force?
I betcha if he isn't offed right away he'll be part of the crew...AND Starbuck might just fall for him!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
All resolution? What has been resolved so far?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Or will be resolution and we know it.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
So then you're saying that the setup is over and the resolution hasn't started yet, which means that we're kind of coasting at the moment. Maybe that's why there's not much to talk about right now.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Did any of you know that on the 1 minute recap that plays on Scifi.com that Head Six is referred to as "Chip Six"? That's interesting. Are telling us something about the nature of Head Six?
Also, RDM said in the podcasts (they are now up on Scifi.com in case any of you are interested) that in the end there will be an explanation of what the Head characters mean. I think that there are plenty of clues pointing to the idea that Head Baltar and Head Six are more substantial then just figments of imagination.
[ April 29, 2008, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yes John, that's pretty much it. We're all waiting to see if our many theories will pan out or not.
And podcasts! Finally! Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I think somewhere in the first season, Baltar speculated on the nature of Head Six and at some point suggested that she was the product of a chip that may have been inserted in his brain. Don't remember where that line of thought ended up though, or even if it actually happened on the show, or only in my imagination.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
There was an episode where he had a brain scan performed on himself, and it came up completely negative. They've established pretty firmly that it's not a chip.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
. . . at least not one that can be detected with a brain scan.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Since they can't detect Cylons, I'd be surprised if they could detect chips.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Just to clarify, it was Six herself in the Miniseries pilot who suggested that she was a chip in Baltar's brain that she implanted while he was sleeping.
And in the sixth or so episode of Second Season they did the brainscan that proved(?) there was no chip... but Baltar said she wasn't just a halucination because she knew things... and that was when Six finally came out and said she was an angel sent from God to guide and watch over him.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Since they can't detect Cylons, I'd be surprised if they could detect chips.
Yes they can detect Cylons. Baltar's machine works.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Baltar's machine works, but nobody other than him knows that, so they don't know that they can detect Cylons.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Does Baltar even remember he has a Cylon detector these days?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
wel not anymore he gave away the nuke.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Good point.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Did he actually need the nuke for the detector, or was that part of some plan of Head Six's?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Hmmmm, another good point. I'm not sure, although it wouldn't surprise me if he did need it.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
The line was something about specifically needing the plutonium from the nuke and using some sort of radiation ...
Man, that episode aired a long time ago. And it's been a while since I've seen it, as well.
ETA actual dialogue (now done right...)
quote: Baltar: Technically, I need the plutonium inside. #6: Figure out the rest for yourself. Baltar: As you may know, the Cylons are susceptible to certain kinds of radiation. And by taking the plutonium and... (figuring it out) embedding it in the carbon nanotube matrix... and it really is that simple... I can construct a filter that will preferentially ionize synthetic molecules and, thus, deliver to you your Cylons.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Okay, here is a fantastic post about who the final cylon could be. It takes the conversation in a completely different direction away from where we are at and I really like it. Not so sure that his reasoning is all that sound, but enough of it adds up that I am about 60% convinced he is correct. One thing I do like is that he does tie a lot of little pieces from all of the seasons together to make his argument pointing to this person as the final cylon. Check it out if you want. I wouldn't call this spoiler information since it is a fan's speculation.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Hmm, some reasons are interesting, but I'd rather have Starbuck, Gaius or Roslin be the last Cylon. From a "solve the puzzle" point of view it would be interesting to realize beforehand that it's a secondary character based on minor details; but from a "character" point of view I'm not interested in going back and rationalizing a secondary character's actions because he/she's revealed to be a cylon with less than a season to go. I'd rather do that with a character that took part in some really important scenes and also openly made some really important decisions. Using a secondary character seems like a cop-out...
That said, the BSG creators haven't disappointed me yet. I hope they also won't in the future. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corwin: Hmm, some reasons are interesting, but I'd rather have Starbuck, Gaius or Roslin be the last Cylon. From a "solve the puzzle" point of view it would be interesting to realize beforehand that it's a secondary character based on minor details; but from a "character" point of view I'm not interested in going back and rationalizing a secondary character's actions because he/she's revealed to be a cylon with less than a season to go. I'd rather do that with a character that took part in some really important scenes and also openly made some really important decisions. Using a secondary character seems like a cop-out...
Well said.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote: Along with all that has been said so far in this article it has been said in one of the episodes (which I can’t remember which episode) that the final Cylon has the power to control all the rest of the Cylons.
This is a major flaw in the guy's thinking, because no where in the series did anyone say this.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
I'm not even bothering with the preview this week. I would rather watch the entire episode in one sitting than be left hanging after 10 minutes of goodness.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I can't resist Reddwarf... I have to watch!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: I can't resist Reddwarf...
No one can resist Reddwarf!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh Reddwarf, I canno resist you!
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
I know, I know. My wife and all my former girlfriends said that I am irresistable. You just aren't telling me anything new! Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
is anyone else getting more and more of an L. Ron Hubbard vibe from Baltar this season?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tonight's epsiode? Meh.
I was pretty unenthused. Felt like mostly filler with a little bit of good stuff at the very end.
Get on with it!
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Well that episode was a non-starter. It was just one big build up to next weeks episode! Nothing happened that wasn't completely revealed in the preview. Booo...
I feel like BSG has lost it's balance. It had it in the first season and through a good part of the second season. It had the right balance of good stuff and bad stuff, fast pacing and settle down pacing, stops and starts, when to continue with the main plot and when to play with side plots.
Now... eh...
Maybe I'm just idolizing the shows glory days cause I'm disenchanted with it lately, I dunno.
On another note, I really wanna see Chief and Boomer get back together. I feel like they could heal each other...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
What be you talking about? This season is on fire!
This is some great buildup and the eeire feeling is powerful. If they didn't show the breakdown of the crew I would have been disapointed...I like seeing how things develope...and the anticipation is half the fun of seeing big explosions or revelations.
I really liked when the Chief strangled Baltar for his insulting Cally's name. Take that Baltar!
[ May 03, 2008, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Interesting thought (assuming everyone and everything in the show is proven fallible)...
What if Helo is the fifth Cylon, and Hera isn't the first child from a Cylon and Human pairing. It would make Cally's and Tyrrol's child that hybrid instead...
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ron Moore has said that the fifth Cylon is not in the Last Supper picture, so it can't be Helo.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Or either of the Adama's or Roslin for that matter.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
The pace is killing me, but I agree with Telp, you need the setup of the crew's discontent. This ep was slow, but in a season of everything non-stop, you need slow ones to develop sub-plots and character so the fast ones don't just seem to come out of nowhere.
Actually the pacing in this ep wasn't slow as much as it was relentless and deliberate. You could feel the frustration and floundering going on early in the ep, but once Leoban showed up, it became, it changed. The pace was still slow, but it was like a badly wounded person rising with determination and will and beginning a march to the inevitable. Dogged and desperate determination. That's the theme of this season, the last gasp, the final fight, the next evolution.
Still frustrating as hell to watch....
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: Interesting thought (assuming everyone and everything in the show is proven fallible)...
What if Helo is the fifth Cylon, and Hera isn't the first child from a Cylon and Human pairing. It would make Cally's and Tyrrol's child that hybrid instead...
The problem with that is that for now we know that cylons can't have children together. Ok, maybe a first seven cylon and a final five cylon can, that was never said, but it would be kind of a stretch.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
That and Head Six told Baltar that the first child of God's new generation would be born on Galactica...ie Hera...as Nicky was born on New Caprica.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Well, she also told him explicitly that Hera was that child.
I dunno how much we can trust what she says though.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
New episode tonight! Looks like a doosy!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Good episode this week, next week looks good as well.
Still, for how many episodes there are left, they'd better get a move on.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Can't we just get D'Anna back and be done with it already?
This was a lot better (IMHO) than the previous few episodes.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
26 episodes in total... right?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Pretty sure the total for this season is 22, and two of those were Razor, so, 20 really. We've already had six, as of this week, and 11 total were filmed before the writer's strike hit. In five weeks you get "Revelations," which is the last episode written (11th) before the strike began, and was written as a possible cliffhanger before yet another hiatus, in which we'll have to wait many, many months to get the last nine episodes, should they choose to do it that way.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I've not watched "Faith" yet, but I just had a thought...
The President is a religious icon in her own right. Could there be a conflict between Baltar, the One God, versus Laura, the Many Gods?
I would think this would be not only a really fun plot device to follow but also important to fill in basic plot threads started back in first season with the President and people near on worshiping her to the point they'd follow her potentially to their deaths.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh wow. Just finished watching it on Hulu. What a great episode. Was reduced to tears when Laura talked about her mother...freaked out by the Hybrid Core's prophecy...and totally moved by Laura's dream and conversation with Bill. Super awesome episode.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Easily the best episode of the season so far. Just awesome. The writing and acting were among the best this show has ever produced, and that is saying a whole lot.
Can I just say, the Hybrid's banshee howl was freaking terrifying. It sounded halfway between a scream of defiance and a pure musical note. Coupled with that blank expression and the way the sound just kept going on and on while chaos surrounded it... wow. It was one of the single most frightening things I've ever seen on TV, in a really good way. Massive kudos to the actress who plays the hybrid, and to the sound designers who shaped the scream, for so successfully scaring the bejeezus out of me.
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
It's still proof that Sam Anders cannot make a single logical decision about Starbuck and have it last even an episode. But, disregarding that, this episode was intense. I also loved/was shocked by the scene where Anders relents about killing the Six model--and Natalie forces him to fire the gun, and then makes a comment about being sick of human justice. Tricia Helfer was outstanding in this episode, as was Mary McDonnell.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
I'm pretty sure Natalie didn't make him fire the gun. I think she moved his hand away to stop him from shooting the other 6, and he shot as soon as she tried to stop him. I could have seen it wrong though.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Zenox: I'm pretty sure Natalie didn't make him fire the gun. I think she moved his hand away to stop him from shooting the other 6, and he shot as soon as she tried to stop him. I could have seen it wrong though.
I don't think you can tell for sure, but I was definitely under the impression that she pulled the trigger. For one thing, the way she was talking beforehand seemed to be leading up to it. Also, she didn't just grab the gun, she grabbed the trigger area. My take on the scene is that she didn't want the alliance to derail, and saw that it would be difficult to make it work so long as the issue of the six was still in the back of everyone's mind like that.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
No, Natalie definitely forces him to pull the trigger. That's why the other Six says "I'm glad it's you" to Natalie and kisses her: she knows that either way, she is going to die (indeed, she wants it), and she'd rather die at the hand of one of her own.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, I also think it was clear that Natalie pulled the trigger.
That scene was a riptorrent of emotion. We went from being shocked at what the Six had done, to being shocked at what the woman she'd killed had done, to not wanting her to die so much, to being shocked when Natalie offed her. Talk about a turnaround.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
As Tarrsk said, this is definitely the best episode of the season so far (though the premiere was pretty good too). It's great to see some forward plot motion after a couple episodes that felt like they were stalling. The scenes with Roslin were especially good, particularly the last one with Adama.
So, stupid question: where are the Threes actually being kept? Are they on a resurrection ship somewhere? On a basestar? Somewhere else?
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I would guess that the easiest way to "Box" a model would be to kill them simultaneously and just turn off the auto-revive thing on the Resurrection Ships so they stay dormant. Also, the last scene with D'Anna was in the goo, so I assume they stayed there.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
My guess is that there are few, if any, Three "bodies" left even in the tanks on the Resurrection Ships. The strong impression I've always gotten from the term "boxed" is that the downloaded minds and memories of the Threes are kept in a hard drive somewhere, ready to be uploaded into bodies if and when they are once again made available.
I can't see the Cavils being careless enough to allow inactive Three bodies to be made and kept alive in the tanks- it'd be too easy for someone to get in to the Resurrection Ship and activate them. Better to destroy the bodies and keep the minds in storage, so that anyone seeking to resurrect the Threes would need to figure out how to make some bodies first.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Didn't Cavil say something about going to "the hub" to resurrect the Threes when he was making his "concessions" to Natalie?
When the Threes were boxed, there was that huge room with balconies and craploads of goo-tanks - which we've never seen on a regular Resurrection Ship and doesn't seem like it would even fit in the space of said Ship. I'm guessing there's some central hub where the Threes are kept.
SPOILERS for future episode titles...
.
.
.
.
And there's an episode called "The Hub" coming up (4x09, I think).
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: So, stupid question: where are the Threes actually being kept? Are they on a resurrection ship somewhere? On a basestar? Somewhere else?
The Number One's have talked about a Central Resurrection Hub that needs to be accessed to revive the Three's.
Unless there are more than one of these Central Hubs this could be the core of the Cylon nation now that they've abandoned their homeworld. AND, if you slow down the trailer for the upcoming they show for a few frames what the Central Hub looks like. And it's pretty sweet. Kinda like a titanic Basestar with a bunch of Resurrection ships compressed in the middle. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Hubs make sense for me because the Resurrection ship(s) always seemed pretty shoddy/flimsy... put together on the fly at the last second to save the Cylons who were chasing the RTF across the Galaxy. Now that they've become purely a spaceborn species as of 3rd Season they would have built more secure and reliable capital ships to transport all the hardware needed to move their massive civilization.
The problem is, once these ships are gone (as I have not doubt will happen) the Cylons are screwed big time.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: I can't see the Cavils being careless enough to allow inactive Three bodies to be made and kept alive in the tanks- it'd be too easy for someone to get in to the Resurrection Ship and activate them. Better to destroy the bodies and keep the minds in storage, so that anyone seeking to resurrect the Threes would need to figure out how to make some bodies first.
I don't know. Until recently, the whole idea of dissent seemed foreign to the Cylons. The final straw for the threes was that they went against group consensus, and when Boomer broke ranks with the other eights, it was treated as a completely unprecedented event. I imagine that most of the bodies were simply put into storage on the off chance that they might need them some day, unless Cavil has decided to do something since the civil war started.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: I can't see the Cavils being careless enough to allow inactive Three bodies to be made and kept alive in the tanks- it'd be too easy for someone to get in to the Resurrection Ship and activate them. Better to destroy the bodies and keep the minds in storage, so that anyone seeking to resurrect the Threes would need to figure out how to make some bodies first.
I don't know. Until recently, the whole idea of dissent seemed foreign to the Cylons. The final straw for the threes was that they went against group consensus, and when Boomer broke ranks with the other eights, it was treated as a completely unprecedented event. I imagine that most of the bodies were simply put into storage on the off chance that they might need them some day, unless Cavil has decided to do something since the civil war started.
The difference is that Boomer, as an individual, broke ranks with her model line while the Three's broke the Consensus in their entirety.
And as was fist mentioned in 2nd Season "Downloaded" the Cylons have a word they use, implying they've had to do it before, to deal with rogue or malfunctioning Cylons: Boxing.
Why box, or put into cold storage, the conciousness of a particular Cylon (or in the ultimate extreme an entire line)? Because the Cylons do not kill each other (unless it's a mercy killing). Totally taboo and unheard of till "Downloaded" when Caprica Six killed D'anna. Thus the civil war, while horrible for any civilization, is particularly shocking for the Cylons.
So, it is no surprise the greater Cylon did not kill off the Three's and simply boxed them all. But now that the Consensus is broken and the Cylon Fleet split down the middle whoever has command of the ships with the Three's onboard has the power to reactivate them. I would assume the Cavil faction has the upper hand as they struck first and planned for the war.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: AND, if you slow down the trailer for the upcoming they show for a few frames what the Central Hub looks like. And it's pretty sweet. Kinda like a titanic Basestar with a bunch of Resurrection ships compressed in the middle.
Yes they do. Very cool.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I just rewatched Six of One and had some thoughts about the Six, Natalie.
Her actions, while will eventually lead to part of the Cylon joining the Colonials, are still treason. I see alot of people calling Cavil the villian and happy at his initial downfall, but he's actually the hero of his race. Natalie's is the real first strike in the civil war. Sure the Cavil faction tricked Natalie's and upped the anti by attacking Baseships but she was the one who struck the first blow in the civil war when she and her comrades shattered the Consensus by screwing over the historic and legal democratic vote and killing half the Cylons off at once (sure they'd be reborn) just because she didn't like the outcome of the vote.
Sure her actions will bode well for Humanity with the Cylons destroying themselves... but she is in no way a good-guy.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
You mean the Six that killed Admiral Cain and escaped with Baltar's help? The one who set off the nuke and killed herself because she knew she was out of range of a resurrection ship? I'm thinking no.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
Yeah, that's why I deleted the post. Her name was Gina. Although they do have the same hair color!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yeah, Gina of Season Two was way way out of range of any Resurrection ship and is dead for good. Natalie, who hasn't been named on the show but RDM has called her such in his podcasts, is the leader of the rebel Cylon faction.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I was wondering how you guys knew her name was Natalie. This explains it. Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Telp, While I don't think anyone would argue that Natalie wasn't the one who started this conflict, I think it's hard to really demonize her for her actions. Effectively she slapped Cavil and the rest in the face (presumably they all were ressurected shortly after being shot) while his faction was the first to actually start killing the opposition.
additionally, while Cavil's faction did have a majority vote on these matters it was effectively deadlocked... 50.000001% to 49.999999% is not much of a majority (since it appeared that the entire extent of the swing was Boomer). I can see arguments that major decisions (such as lobotomizing raiders) would need something like a 2/3 majority, just like in the US congress.
Really, by boxing the D'anna's they probably threw out the door whatever previous official tennants they had on decision-making. In the past the closest a deadlock could be was 4:3, but now a real 3:3 deadlock was possible, and as shown even that could get shaved down. Basically, assuming there was some kind of governing constitution that you're claiming Natalie was commiting treason against, you could argue that said constitution did not have a way to resolve this conflict, and thus she committed no treason.
Basically their system of government was thrown out of equillibrium, and the civil war is the result.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
True their system of government was thrown out of balance.... but the decision to box the Three's was made by not just Cavil but the entire Consensus...including those that would become part of Natalie's faction.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
It was consensus, but they were still turning against one of their own.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
It was a consensus, but it doesn't mean that it didn't mess up the gov't processes that they had in place.
Example: I'm sure that there's plenty of rules on the books that specify how many votes congress needs to pass laws, ratify treaties etc (i.e. not just "simple majority" or "2/3 majority" but "200 yea votes" or whatever). So if the continental 48 states suddenly decided to pass a law reverting Alaska and Hawaii back to territories then a bunch of rules would potentially be broken, because there would no longer be the same number of delegates available to vote... so if then there was a vote on something else that resulted in a 51% majority, but didn't have the 200 votes needed, then we're at an impasse. One portion of law would probably claim that the vote had passed, the other would claim that it hadn't, and to a certain extent they'd both be right.
In the case of the Cylons I think it's only fair to assume that little in the way of actual laws had been set down. Previously there was at most a 3/4 difference in votes, with no ties. They said that no single model had ever voted against its siblings, and presumably there hadn't been much disagreement between the different model lines either. So I'm sure they hadn't set up these rules.
So when the Cavils' faction started doing drastic things with a very very very fine majority (even if that was because of a unanimous decision to box the D'annas) suddenly we're in a very grey area.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
HOLY CRAP! *SPOILERS AHEAD*
That was one bitchin episode.
Gaeda - Beautiful voice. I'm glad they came up with an excuse to stick that in there, tragic though it may be.
Roslin/Lee - LOVED the warm fuzzy moment between them.
Sharon - What the frack! The last couple minutes I was saying "come on, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it," and then BAM! I can't believe she shot her! That wasn't even the right Six! It was Caprica Six in the hold. Man that's nuts! That could have all sorts of crazy reprecussions, but it might not even matter since...
The Basestar - Woah! It looks like they've really changed, but that's a pretty serious moral quandary they're working on there. In the end it looks like they really want to do the right thing, but the sins of the past will either make that impossible or exact a terrible price for it. I'm a little surprised they turned the Hybrid back on, but woah! They JUMPED? Where they did go?
Next week - Hot damn! Looks like all hell is going to break loose! They might have taken a few episodes to get revved up, but they certainly aren't slowing down now. I love it!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I still like my theory that RDM is playing games with our assumption that the fleet are the Humans. One idea that crossed my mind is that maybe the Final Five aren't Cylons at all. Maybe they're the last of the Humans, and thus, unboxing D'Anna and revealing them will lead ultimately to their death, which will in turn be the death of the Human Race, which was brought about by Kara bringing back the Base Ship (fulfilling the prophecy of the Hybrids). It also explains why the final five came from the home of the 13th (Earth).
HOWEVER: They obviously can't actually BE humans because they have super strength and the AATW thing and the glowing scan eyes and whatnot. As such, I must conclude that they house the CONSCIOUSNESS of the final five humans and that the other 7 models are artificially created. They are relics. Artifacts of the lost Human race, and as such, precious.
I envision a world where the Cylons were originally built to protect them (Think Asimov). However, in the process of increasing their complexity, the skin-jobs forgot consciously about their original purpose and only maintained the taboo that they weren't supposed to expose the five (and as such, not talk about them). Only the Raiders and Centurians were able to retain this objective.
As for where the "Humans" that now occupy the fleet came from: "All of this has happened before, and it will happen again...". They are an older model of Cylons that survived an earlier age maybe.
IMO, this is the only way RDM can make good on all of the "Prophecies" so far in the series, and still end it without killing everyone that we care about. If this isn't what's going on, then I might just have a book to write!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not sure about how I'd feel about such a wicked switcharoo.
I am interested in how they explain the Laura-Caprica Six-Hera-Sharon dream connection thing. There's a lot to be explained, but I'm really excited to see how this ends, especially after this week.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
McCreary is the composer for BSG. He talks about this week's music, including an indepth breakdown of "Gaeta's Lament," that goes into such details that only people like Raia or Orincoro will really get anything out of it. But I still thought it was very interesting, especially that the song was the first thing he wrote for the season.
He also hints at the end about music he is working on for future episodes that are currently being filmed. Currently I think he says the fourth the last episode is being filmed. And he talks about incorporating music directly into the show in totally new ways, which has me intrigued, and that, plus the Lament, have me thinking that Season 4's soundtrack will be even better than 3's (which frankly had three or four stellar tracks and then a lot of replays from the first two seasons).
And here's to hoping they finish filming soon on these last few episodes and get on with it and don't subject us to a nine month hiatus to see the last few eps. The first 11 eps finish their run on June 20th. I'm hoping they can take a break and then give us the final nine in the Fall.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
All I have at the moments are two words of sheer excitement from the promo for the next episode:
ROMO. LAMPKIN.
(I have to watch this past episode again before I comment too much on it - I was so distracted by how good Gaeta's singing was to pay attention to anything happening between the President and whoever she was talking to. Apparently it was Lee, who in turn dug his way out of whatever cardboard box they'd put him in these past two episodes.)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Oh I forgot about Lampkin in the preview. I wonder what he'll be doing. What will they need a lawyer for? If I had to guess? Sharon Agathon will be prosecuted for murdering the Cylon as a peace offering to their new Cylon allies.
Lee has been very absent lately, and it was nice to see him back and not as Zarek's tool.
The guy who plays Gaeta studied opera at a university in Montreal before he became an actor.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
What did the Hybrid shout the moment they plugged her in? I couldn't make it out.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
JUMP!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ugh!! I missed it and Hulu isn't providing the episode! Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Meh, I thought Gaeta's singing was distracting and pretty much useless. Don't get me wrong, I think he sings quite well, but I didn't think the scenes with him fit very well in the episode.
I'm really anxious to see what the "opera house" thing is about and Hera's connection to the Sixes. Maybe we'll start to get some answers in the next episode, so far it's been question after question after question. They've got to give us something. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: JUMP!
Thanks.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Is she connected to the sixes or just to Caprica Six? I'd assumed the latter, but now I wonder. She did draw a lot of sixes, and she was drawn to Natalie, who is not Caprica. Hm.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
The dream stuff really really bores me =(
The nonsense about "mortality is all that gives life meaning" was irritating too.
I think, when all the mysteries are revealed, I'll be vastly disappointed.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Ugh!! I missed it and Hulu isn't providing the episode!
Bit Torrent is your friend.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Oh I forgot about Lampkin in the preview. I wonder what he'll be doing. What will they need a lawyer for? If I had to guess? Sharon Agathon will be prosecuted for murdering the Cylon as a peace offering to their new Cylon allies.
Lee has been very absent lately, and it was nice to see him back and not as Zarek's tool.
The guy who plays Gaeta studied opera at a university in Montreal before he became an actor.
That University is McGill University!!! One of the top ranked Universities in the world.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Ugh!! I missed it and Hulu isn't providing the episode!
Bit Torrent is your friend.
I wonder if they're souring on the whole internet broadcasting thing. They've already dropped the live streaming episodes in favor of a 10 minute preview, and now they haven't posted this episode or any of the teasers. Hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come, since where I live scifi is only available on digital cable, which I don't have. I had really been hoping that they would continue to provide a legitimate way to watch the episodes online.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ahhh... Saw it. Just replayed on sci-fi. Maybe hulu.com was waiting till it aired again so the channel can get their ratings and sweet sweet money.
WOW. Basestar in the fleet... humans on Basestar... visions and Gaeta singing with his words mirroring what's going on...
And Natalie's faction truely willing to sacrifice the core of the Cylon nation and their immortality. But I don't care what they say, death is not an redeeming quality of Life... it is the high cost off. Saying that death is a good thing is just an attempt to fool ourselves into thinking so because since Death is unavoidable and horrible, and such thoughts are comforting. A folly IMHO, and if immortality was possible it would be the ultimate triumph of Life and a great good.
What gives meaning to living is how you live and the happiness/art/beauty you achieve.
Oh the words were nice and I appreciated them, considering what's going on with Laura...it's just hard to me to believe the rebels would be willing to destroy their race... wouldn't they rather claim the Central Hub for their own?
And speaking of the Hub, considering how supremely important it is to the Cylons wouldn't the Cavil faction up its protection now that the rebels exist (who have data on where it jumps and other defence systems)? Even if the Mainstream Cylons never dreamed the rebels would ally with the Colonials the Natalie faction would have the Hub as their ultimate goal regardless because D'anna's line is stored there. Plus, the fact that even though rebels began to percieve reality differently, now that they are no longer immortal, is not shared by the Cavil faction... they are still linked up to the network and probably have no idea that the rebels have had such a profound paradigm shift against resurrection and would be so willing to sacrifice the Central Hub.
But their defense of the core would still be paramount and even increased in the face of the civil war...and I would bet the rebels tried to claim the Hub earlier in the war. Capture, destroy, it means the same thing to the Cavil faction...that they loose resurrection functions.
If I don't see at least a dozen Basestars protecting that thing I'm going to be disapointed.
Ok... so the Cylon Main Fleet is moving through space, along the general route of the Galactica, spread out searching for Earth... each Resurrection ship and its battle group in range of the Central Hub (or at least each ship in range of another ship that can relay information to the Hub). Hmmmmm... but wasn't the original Resurrection ship independent? Did the Cylons build the Hub at that point? They hadn't abandoned their homeworld nor the 12 Colonies yet and there wouldn't be a need for a portable way to transport the Cylon nation.
Eh... either these are plot holes or will stay vague to leave it to our imaginations and any number of answers...
Natalie wasted... didn't see that coming... did the Hybrid jump to the Hub? If she did then maybe Natalie will download inside and help with the invasion. What will Laura discover from the Hybrid? So cool.
[ May 19, 2008, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Why would Natalie download even if the Hybrid jumped to the Hub? Unless Natalie downloaded in the baseship first, she's dead on the Galactica and that's it.
And yeah, I'd expect the Hub to be heavily protected, it would be weird for it not to be... The Cavil faction just killed human Cylons for good, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the remaining rebels would go after the hub. Unless they think there are no remaining rebels?!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Telp -
The idea that death is a gift is a big part of Tolkien's mythology too, as you well know. Elves lived forever, but the younger race, humans, were given the gift of death, which was I think viewed both as tragic and genuinely a gift. Elves viewed themselves occasionally as trapped, and over the centuries, as weary of life. I think it looks different on the far side of three or four thousand years. After the Numnoreans came about, strife only really started to appear when the rulers clung to life longer than they should have.
I wonder how much of this is really based on our need to find fantastical ways of explaining away death as something as a "gift" or a "redeeming quality," and how much is rooted in a real belief that delaying death really does do harm to our humanity.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corwin: Why would Natalie download even if the Hybrid jumped to the Hub? Unless Natalie downloaded in the baseship first, she's dead on the Galactica and that's it.
And yeah, I'd expect the Hub to be heavily protected, it would be weird for it not to be... The Cavil faction just killed human Cylons for good, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the remaining rebels would go after the hub. Unless they think there are no remaining rebels?!
Sorry i should have clarified. In the preview we see Galactica making an emergency jump and leaving the RTF without warning, going after the Basestar I assume and thus bringing the dying (assuming she's not dead yet) Natalie with them.
It might be believable the Cavil faction thinks the rebels are gone... hmmmm... but I don't think so. The war hasn't been going on for very long has it? A few weeks at most?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Telp -
I wonder how much of this is really based on our need to find fantastical ways of explaining away death as something as a "gift" or a "redeeming quality," and how much is rooted in a real belief that delaying death really does do harm to our humanity.
Mmmmm... Elves... But yes, I wonder too.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Thanks for the link about Gaeta's lament, Lyr. The composer's own surprise at the "open interpretation" of the feel the of the final cadence is funny. I love music that deals in muddled harmonic direction--though it really shouldn't be THAT surprising for him. Any time you use the major 3rd when you're in a minor key, most of our ears interpret it to function as a secondary dominant, which is why the actor playing Gaeta would think of it as a "resolution" to Em rather than the tonic Bm. The composer's opinion that it was in Bm is confusing, too, because there's no use of C# throughout the piece. If anything, it would be a B Phrygian feel, based on the prevalence of the flat-II C major.
This show needs Earth soon. I don't want them to just find the planet and have that be the end.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
I didn't spend all that much time analyzing it as I was listening to the show. Nevertheless, I enjoyed how Gaeta's song employed "muddled harmonic direction", as Launchywiggin put it. It lent an aura of foreign-ness to it. To me, it's plausible that this mode could be a prevalent tonality of the culture from whichever Colony Gaeta is from (Caprica? I don't recall...). It adds to the immersion, for me.
I can't think of any moments right now, but I, for one, have been jarred out of immersion in some similar movies in which a character sings or plays an instrument and the song is built around Western tonalities, an even-tempered scale, and maybe even Ionian or Aeolian modes. The extra effort and attention to detail is appreciated by me.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: But I don't care what they say, death is not an redeeming quality of Life... it is the high cost off. Saying that death is a good thing is just an attempt to fool ourselves into thinking so because since Death is unavoidable and horrible, and such thoughts are comforting. A folly IMHO, and if immortality was possible it would be the ultimate triumph of Life and a great good.
What gives meaning to living is how you live and the happiness/art/beauty you achieve.
Certainly you're entitled to your opinion on the matter, but this is one of the things that made me love this episode. This is one of the recurring themes in much of sci-fi/fantasy. Basically it's the concept that only realizing how much you are capable of losing motivates you to truly live.
The last couple episodes have really started focusing in (at least from my perspective) on the fundamental nature of the Cylons. Effectively they're really smart, fully grown kids that have all grown up in a very strange cult, with no actual exposure to the outside world. As you can see throughout the series, those Cylons who have significant exposure to humanity tend to drastically change in their development (i.e. siding with humanity over the Cylons, siding with other models rather than their own...). This makes total sense to me, and is very important.
Back when they were all just part of the cylon society, immortal and without conflicting philosophies none of them would have experienced any personal growth. Now though, they see that other experiences may lead to different conclusions than their initial programming... just look at how they've at least partly gone back on their initial move to exterminate the human race. Basically, now at least some portion of the Cylon race is growing as people (wow that's a poorly phrased sentence).
As for the mortality thing: on one hand, yes it's a necessary evil (or at least fault). On the other hand it certainly is a real motivator for personal growth and development. As an immortal you are going to have a drastically different outlook on life. Others' lives are likely to be treated much more cavalierly. You are much more likely to be lacksadaisical in your personal development, etc... it's a matter of motivation.
When I have a project at work that needs to be done by friday, then I will do it by friday. If I have a project that needs to be done "soon" or just at all, then it's likely to get pushed back for months or years until I have a chance... it's in principle the same with mortality. If I knew that I'd just keep resurrecting I'd probably be much more careless with my own safety, and that of others, and I'd be far less motivated to attain any goals. Procrastination is a powerful enemy.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Sorry i should have clarified. In the preview we see Galactica making an emergency jump and leaving the RTF without warning, going after the Basestar I assume and thus bringing the dying (assuming she's not dead yet) Natalie with them.
Gotcha. That makes sense.
quote:It might be believable the Cavil faction thinks the rebels are gone... hmmmm... but I don't think so. The war hasn't been going on for very long has it? A few weeks at most?
Well, all that we see from the rebels is one almost destroyed baseship. Were they THAT stupid as to come all in the same place for the first "battle" (read "slaughter")? I don't know. Were there other battles? I don't know either. But until we find out otherwise I think it's possible that the Cavil faction does in fact believe that the rebels are dead. I still wouldn't leave the Hub undefended if I were a cylon, I mean you never know who shows up uninvited to the party...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote: Well, all that we see from the rebels is one almost destroyed baseship. Were they THAT stupid as to come all in the same place for the first "battle" (read "slaughter")? I don't know. Were there other battles? I don't know either. But until we find out otherwise I think it's possible that the Cavil faction does in fact believe that the rebels are dead. I still wouldn't leave the Hub undefended if I were a cylon, I mean you never know who shows up uninvited to the party...
Right, 'cause if the Hub is destroyed it would be the same thing as if the Cylon homeworld was destroyed. They Cylons would become just like the Colonials in that regard...
But... even if the Hub is destroyed the Cylons have enough hardware around the galaxy to rebuild it, right? Maybe not... if all are born there (new Cylons have to be created somewhere) then they not only loose their ability to resurrect but also to make more of themselves.
But... where do the Basestars and Resurrection ships come from? Either they built a huge number of them back home and are living on the remainders or they have the ability to make more in their current state of transit. If they can build a Basestar and/or Resurrection ship now then they can rebuild the Hub.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Right, 'cause if the Hub is destroyed it would be the same thing as if the Cylon homeworld was destroyed. They Cylons would become just like the Colonials in that regard...
Worse. Humans can procreate.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Well, Cylons can procreate with humans.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Given the right Cylon, I'd volunteer... Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Likewise. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh Cavil... com'er baby! How does that man get so much tale?! Well... he must be called #1 for some reason!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I am officially disturbed.
(For the record, I've got dibs on Anders.)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
ALL the Anders'? That's one hell of a dibs.
On Natalie -
No way is she still alive, not even clinging to life. Sharon put her down, and then shot her again while she was on the ground. She's gone.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Not unlike the way the other Sharon shot Commander Adama.
Yeah, I think Natalie's toast too. I just wouldn't be too surprised if she did manage to pull through somehow, though I'd probably think it was kind of lame.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
We don't actually know if there are multiple copies of the final five.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I thought I saw Natalie in the preview, though it could have been a somehow resurrected Natalie?
Edit to add: Yeah, at roughly 7 seconds left during the drumbeat of images, she looks alive though only barely.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: We don't actually know if there are multiple copies of the final five.
There are none. The FF do not exist in the Cylon nation, not anywhere. Not on any Resurrection ship nor Central Hub. Since these are the only vessels/hardware that can make multiple copies of the humanoid Cylons, and considering the Standard Seven do not have the FF models or any information about them (other than the fact they exist), the only answer left is that the FF cannot have multiple copies.
At least none made by the standard Cylon race who destroyed the 12 Colonies.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: At least none made by the standard Cylon race who destroyed the 12 Colonies.
Right. They could get to Earth and find out that there are copies of the Five there along with their own resurrection hubs.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Here's another interesting question:
It's been stated there are billions of humanoid Cylons. How do they make a new individual personality? There must be more spare/easily grown bodies than there are individual minds. So how do the Cylons make new minds? And where?
My first guess, of course, would be the Central Hub. Just imagine the computers needed, biological or otherwise, to create, store, and download new minds into bodies.
What is the method used to decide how large the Cylon race should be? Why billions? Why not less? Why not more? I would guess the only limitation to how many Cylons there could be would be how fast they could build starships.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Here's another interesting question: How do they make a new individual personality? There must be more spare/easily grown bodies than there are individual minds. So how do the Cylons make new minds? And where?
My first guess, of course, would be the Central Hub. Just imagine the computers needed, biological or otherwise, to create, store, and download new minds into bodies.
They could potentially fork the new personalities off of an existing one, and then perhaps tweak it as needed. I remember Athena saying that she had many of Boomer's memories up to a certain point, which would seem to somewhat support that, although they could just as easily have some way to simply extract the memories and give them to a new Cylon.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Another thought... I wonder how Helo will react to the eventual destruction of the Central Hub, an event on par with the destruction of the 12 Colonies, considering he betrayed the first mission to wipe the Cylons out with the genocide germ.
Will he try and sabotage this mission too?
Posted by Human (Member # 2985) on :
I think that the ethical difference there is that destroying the Hub doesn't destroy every Cylon--it just keeps them from being functionally immortal. They would still, theoretically, possess the ability to make new copies of the Seven, but without any ability to give them the old memories/lives of other copies.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I rewatched "Guess What's Coming for Dinner" again and it seems they're not going in with guns blazing right away...that they'll jump in with the Basestar and trick the Cavil faction into thinking they are friendly's so they can sneak onboard.
But now that the Basestar's gone... well... who knows?
Human, I would agree except the Cental Hub is probably more, well, central to greater Cylon survival and the preservation of their society. Without downloading ability does that effect the Datastream and the ability for the Models to link with each other? What about communication with the far flung Cylon fleets?
The Resurrection ships and Hub facilitate downloading from vast distances... but couldn't a Cylon just link up physically with a new body and place a copy of it's mind inside?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Ahh. That explains a lot...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
LOL!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Ironic considering it's the human ships that are so susceptible to viruses.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Okay, I kind of saw Lee coming as the president, sort of. But I didn't see Adama stepping down as Admiral and Tigh taking over.
Romo going loony was certainly strange to see. Was he having visions of the cat the whole time? Nice to see Lee give him Jake
And nice to see Adama finally admit his feelings out loud about Roslin.
My two big questions? D'Anna apparently reveals the final Cylon next week, and Roslin at the very least is likely present. I would imagine it'd have to be either someone who was on the baseship or Adama, who might have hooked up with them at that point. But supposedly none of them are in the running anyway. Anyway, should be interesting next week.
And also, who the heck is the father of Caprica's baby?! Obviously it isn't Saul. Baltar? Someone else? Immaculate conception?
Another great episode with big changes, great plot and intense dialogue.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
What do you mean it isn't Saul? Of course it is! He's been sleeping with her for weeks.
LOVED when Romo went crazy... freaked me out. I'm so sad for his kitty! I wondered why they were giving special time on the cat (not that I mind, cats rule!).
Interesting to hear more of how the Cylon Central Hub works...jumping and then relaying the data only to the Hybrids.
But I guess this info is for nothing... as the Central Hub is gone... RDM is pulling a Tolkien on us with this split time thing.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:What do you mean it isn't Saul? Of course it is! He's been sleeping with her for weeks.
Since Cylons can't procreate with each other, how'd he get her pregnant?
Or are you suggesting the Final Five have special procreative abilities?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:What do you mean it isn't Saul? Of course it is! He's been sleeping with her for weeks.
Since Cylons can't procreate with each other, how'd he get her pregnant?
Or are you suggesting the Final Five have special procreative abilities?
That's exactly what I'm saying and have been saying.
The Final Five are called Cylons in the loosest possible sense. They are not really Cylons, not as the Colonials know them.
The FF are alien (and older) to the Standard Seven.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Ah. I must have missed that before.
Curiously, what leads you to believe that their specialness extends to their reproductive abilities?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Well... Caprica Six being pregnant is the evidence. Tigh's been sleeping with her, she's suddenly pregnant, Adama is pissed that Tigh is literally sleeping witht he enemy. Why would Adam be upset at Tigh for Six being pregnant if Tigh wasn't the one who did it?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Probably because Adama doesn't know that Tigh is a Cylon. Everyone in the fleet knows that a Cylon/Cylon union won't produce a child, so Tigh is the most obvious choice. What about Baltar?
I'm not counting out the possibility that the Final Five are biologically different than the others and that they could possibly procreate with other Cylons, but I like to look for more possibilities. If everything established is true and Tigh can't be the father, that means there's someone else in the picture, and who else wouldv'e slept with her? Or like I said, what if this is a new religious angle and there IS no father?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Possibly... But I'm still of mind that Tigh is the father. Baltar has not been allowed to see Six at all so it can't be him. It could be the religious angle, but I doubt it... All the evidence and build up have been about Tigh and Six getting busy with each other. Shocking enough. But to have Six pregnant by Tigh? Even bigger, but logical, shocker.
[ May 31, 2008, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I'd say that it is very likely that Tigh is the father. While other people have been in with her, no one else has been in there with the cameras off and the guards sent away.
Also, does anyone else think that they're really starting to overuse the whole "if you don't believe me then go ahead and shoot". It isn't that bad in and of itself, but it seems to be popping up an awful lot lately.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
They aren't gonna reveal the final. My bet's the reveal Sam. He's one of the final five and he's on the ship. She didn't say "you're the fifth", she said "you're one of them". Either that or Tyrol (I can't remember if he's on the baseship). We know Sam is (pretty sure). And all the others are back on Galactica, and there's no way in hell they're revealing the fifth yet. They just want to keep making us think they are going to with the previews. The preview was structured to make us think Roslin's the fifth, it won't be.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Oh yeah...good point, they didn't say that it was the fifth, just that someone gets outed. I didn't think that it was Roslin, despite the way the trailer is structured.
ricree -
Honestly, despite the fact that Lee is one of my favorite characters, 75% of me wanted Lampkin to shoot, just because I'm sick of people saying "pull the trigger" and then no one ever does. I almost think having him actually shoot but then have it be non-fatal and have Coddle save him might have been a lot better, even if it would've left Lampkin in jail.
I think my favorite part of Serenity was whem The Operative sits down and says "I'm unarmed," and Mal says "good" and pulls the trigger. But other than Mal and Han Solo, no one shoots.
I agree that it's overused, and I don't know why, but I'm itching for someone to say "okay!" and shoot!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Lampkin for Attorney General!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Keep in mind that whole prospect that the FF are so very different from standard cylons may not spread very far across the fan base. Just because we at Hatrack thought of it a long time ago doesn't mean everyone else figured it out. Of course, now everybody knows (or they suspect that the child is someone else's).
Was I the only one that laughed out loud at Tigh's face when Adama said "You've found out a lot about yourself..." and basicaly the entire scene in general? It was absolutely priceless. Boy is he gonna be PISSED when he finds out that Tigh is a Cylon, and knew about it at that time.
I almost don't care about what people will think about the other of the 4 known, but Tigh... that is gonna be damn good.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Slightly confused. Was there no new episode Memorial Day weekend? I don't have cable TV anymore so I'm watching them on stream from SciFi rewind. My dad's been Tivo'ing them and he has nothing saved for the weekend of the 24th, and there doesn't seem to be an episode between Dinner (which I did get to see last week) and Sine Qua Non, which was this weekend's new ep.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:I agree that it's overused, and I don't know why, but I'm itching for someone to say "okay!" and shoot!
I felt the same way. All of the characters are currently too safe. In order for the constant "life in peril" thing to work, I need to feel there's a chance that their life is actually in peril. I don't think that anybody of importance has died since Billy.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Goody- You're right. There was no new episode Memorial Day weekend. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:I agree that it's overused, and I don't know why, but I'm itching for someone to say "okay!" and shoot!
I felt the same way. All of the characters are currently too safe. In order for the constant "life in peril" thing to work, I need to feel there's a chance that their life is actually in peril. I don't think that anybody of importance has died since Billy.
Callie?
But I still agree with you. Part of the problem with threats like that is that it's not that dire for me, and there's zero drama to it because I KNOW they aren't going to shoot. There has to be a balance between no tension and say, Whedon's tendency to kill off half the cast just to show he can.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
But... killing off half the cast just to show you can is... awesome.
And something I'll do if I have the chance. Just to warn y'all.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:But other than Mal and Han Solo, no one shoots.
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang subverted this one, too. The bad guy got about a second and a half into his monologue. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
0Megabyte -
Warn me ahead of time which show is yours so I can remember not to watch.
Tom -
Oh yeah! I forgot about that part. I loved Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
Another thing that is getting really old is the line, "If we do this we are no different than the cylons"
I'd like to see someone turn and say, "What are you smoking!?!" when confronted with that statement.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Another thought... I wonder how Helo will react to the eventual destruction of the Central Hub, an event on par with the destruction of the 12 Colonies, considering he betrayed the first mission to wipe the Cylons out with the genocide germ.
Will he try and sabotage this mission too?
To answer myself, with the Central Hub already destroyed it looks like Helo won't be forced to make this choice.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Well, since it's not actually wiping them out and since it's something they want to increase their appreciation of life...
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I hope that wasn't actually the Hub that was destroyed, because that would be pretty lame to have so much action take place off-screen.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Jon Boy, I'll bet all the money in my pocket that the next episode will start right after the jump of the Baseship was made, and will take place from the point of view of the Baseship characters, and we'll see exactly what happened.
Besides, this week's episode is called "The Hub." Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Lyrhawn -
To be honest, I'll probably focus more on movies.
And killing off characters completely randomly, now that I think on it again, isn't quite so fun. Characters should die when it's dramatically appropriate. Unlike so many shows, that "kill" someone, just to bring them back, to keep from having to change anything.
And also, to make sure the audience feels actual worry when a dramatic, dangerous situation comes up, that someone could actually die.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
ELOSHA!!! Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Okay, that was a pretty darn good episode.
But next week? I predict it'll be even better. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I missed it. I'll catch the rerun in 15 minutes.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I knew it!
The jump drives have some importance!
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Hee hee hee!!! About time indeed. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh Elosha, it's so good to see you!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The Hybrid is doing emergency jumps to bring itself to the Central Hub... unfortunatly this self defense mechanism will lead to the Cylons' undoing...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The place between life and death is dimensional jumping.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Oh damn. Oh damn!
Laura has finally hear the confession from Baltar that she always wanted... That he is the Butcher of Humanity... responsible for the deaths of 50 billion people.
And now she has given his proper death sentence... bleed to death you bastard!!!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Love you.
'bout time.
AWESOME!
Still... Baltar should have died... And now the Cylon Nation is dead... or at least is now dying. The Central Hub is no more.
Cavil One and Boomer are dead forever.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Wow...
Better than I could've possibly expected. If warm fuzzies could destroy ships, that episode, especially the end, could take on a fleet.
But holy crap! Next week the crap REALLY hits the fan! And it's the end of this half of the season! After next Friday, no more BSG for...no one knows how long!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Next week... Earth is found.
And it is dead! Mark my words...
And what about the Central Hub? Why wasn' it protected by more than one freaking Baseship?? It's the core of the Cylon nation... the most vital target possible. Ah well. Whatever. It is gone now. Cylons are doomed.
Thus will begin the annihilation/merger of the Cylons and Humans into one race.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You think they'll actually get there next week?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I do.
Looks like they see a planet from orbit and then are standing on the surface of one during the trailer.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It did look like a planet, but I'm wondering if that was just one of the many visions that the show's characters have from time to time.
Seems too easy, but that'd give us 10 episodes AT Earth, which would be cool too.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Could be...could be a vision...
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a copy of the Kobol Opera House on Earth?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Even more so if it were in Vancouver...
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Mmmm... pine trees...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My best friend and I were out for a walk yesterday and I smelled this weird smell, which led to the following conversation:
Me - "What the heck is that smell?" Her - "What smell?" Me - "That smell, it smells like, like pine, do you smell it?" Her - "Yeah." Me - "Well what is it?" Her - *points to pine tree over our heads* "Pine."
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Was D'Anna always that cynical? I don't think I like it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
After New Caprica? Yeah. Heck, after New Caprica, I don't there's anyone in either fleet that isn't cynical.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Cavil One and Boomer are dead forever.
Maybe.
We don't know where she ran off to after Cavil was killed. There's no reason that Boomer couldn't have made it out of there.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Seeing Cavil killed and knowing what was about to happen, I'm betting she rushed off to meet the newly resurrected Cavil, to get him on a Heavy Raider and off the Hub before it blew, and she had plenty of time to do it.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
I live in Ireland but Im holidaying in Orlando from Thursday night. Can someone tell me what time BSG is normally on at in Americaland?
Also do hotels normally have Scifi in their rooms?
Thanks!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Damien.m: I live in Ireland but Im holidaying in Orlando from Thursday night. Can someone tell me what time BSG is normally on at in Americaland?
Also do hotels normally have Scifi in their rooms?
Thanks!
10pm in Orlando. I'm pretty sure that most hotels will carry it, but I'm not certain.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I haven't been in that many hotels that actually get SciFi; I'm always rather surprised when they do.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
The answer is probably obvious and I just can't think of it, but how did the baseship make its way back to where Adama was waiting? I thought the hybrid was deciding when to jump and chasing the central hub. After the resurrection hub was destroyed, what reason did the hybrid have to return to where it came from? Or were Laura and the others able to control where they jumped?
Maybe the hybrid was only controlling things while it was panicking.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The whole hybrid being in control thing seems to conflict with an earlier jump when the hybrid protested and Deanna said "she doesn't get a vote," and they jumped anyway.
They used the ship to fight off the other baseships, which I'm guessing the hybrid didn't stop, even though it resulted in the destruction of the Hub, so I think unless special circumstances are involved, she is powerless. Thus, I think they jumped back to where Galactica was without her having a say in the matter.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The whole hybrid being in control thing seems to conflict with an earlier jump when the hybrid protested and Deanna said "she doesn't get a vote," and they jumped anyway.
They used the ship to fight off the other baseships, which I'm guessing the hybrid didn't stop, even though it resulted in the destruction of the Hub, so I think unless special circumstances are involved, she is powerless. Thus, I think they jumped back to where Galactica was without her having a say in the matter.
I would guess that something triggered some sort of emergency protocol that the Hybrid was following. Like an emergency lock out.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
My best guess is that the sudden deactivation/reactivation of the hybrid flipped it. I mean, the first time it happened, a centurion shot a Sharon.
I loved the scene with Gaius and the Centurion. Any chance that the centurions have some way of communicating mind-mind, and that the seeds of rebellion are now further sown?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yup. And now the Humanoid Models no longer have an upper hand against the Centurions with self awarness without the ability to resurrect themselves.
But why can't a new Hub be constructed? You'd think since the Cylons are machines they would know about redundancies, as in more than one Hub (or at least more than only two freaking Baseships guarding the most strategic target possible).
I think the only way this event can be resolved for me is to have the Cylons talk about rebuilding the Hub but are stopped by the Civil War/Centurion Rebellion.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
Maybe the final five have something to do with why they can't rebuild the hub?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think it'd be a bit of an undertaking to rebuild the Hub, and if they get to Earth this week, there'll be more pressing concerns.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
The Centurians/Raiders HAVE to have some means of remote communication. The entire Cylon fleet withdrew when the one raider scanned Anders. Whether or not Baltar's centurian was broadcasting, however, is another story altogether.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Zenox: I loved the scene with Gaius and the Centurion. Any chance that the centurions have some way of communicating mind-mind, and that the seeds of rebellion are now further sown?
Did the rebellion really even need to get seeded? After being freed from decades of slavery, the nonhuman cylons are still pretty much guards, laborers, and soldiers. The only real sign we've gotten that anything has changed is one time when one of the cylons had to say please to get them to do something.
Unless there is something drastic that we haven't been shown, it seems as though a centurion rebellion was probably inevitable.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
If not seeded, then at least pushed ahead of schedule. His little talk, if spread, could definitely trigger an earlier rebellion.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: The only real sign we've gotten that anything has changed is one time when one of the cylons had to say please to get them to do something.
And when the Centurion shot one of the Eights when she unplugged the Hybrid. I'm still not entirely sure why that happened.
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
I really like the symmetry of humans building cylons as drones who rebel against us. Then the cylons evolve and build drones who, hopefully, rebel against them too. A nice little circle of life
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
...or death....
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
Hello, my name is Richard and I'm a BSG-holic.
Phew, that was tough. OK so I'm only part way through the second series, but series three is now nestling in the bosom of my iPod. I expect to be posting here meaningfully shortly.
In the meantime, I wish I knew what you were going on about...
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I think it's important to note that SciFi will be streaming the full episode every hour from 0900 to 1600 (last one ends) tomorrow. I'm going to wait until the evening to watch it, but it'll be a close call.
And the AICN review of the media screening last night only made me more excited. It's not very spoilerific at all, so don't be afraid to click. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ooh. I didn't realize the mid-season finale was here already. It sounds very, very promising.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OMG I'm so excited!
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Hmm... just saw the last episode. Not a fan of the betrayal of the eights. Really, really not a fan. But then I kinda have a crush on the eights, so I wouldn't be. Good episode otherwise.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Oh man. Sounds awesome.
But I continue to wonder why, if the filming of the last episode will be done this month, they'll make us wait at least six months for the last 10 episodes. What's the point?
This show is easily in my top three favorites of any show ever made. It's spectacular and thrilling, and watching it all for the first time is a series of singular events, but I also feel like I'm being sucker punched by being dragged along on these long unnecessary waits. When Caprica comes out, I'm going to be seriously tempted to not watch it at all until the whole thing is done.
I hope they come out with the complete series DVD quick so I can buy it. I've specificially been not buying any dvds because I expected that Sci-Fi would release a special edition full collection like they did for SG.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Where did you watch the last episode, Alcon?
I want to do the same!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
I think by last, he meant the latest ("The Hub" I believe it is called).
I'm actually not really looking too forward to this next episode. It is inevitably going to be a ~6+ month long cliff hanger, and given the latest developments, it's going to be a big one. The most I can hope for is that it gives us some more fuel for speculation. We seem to have run dry of that in the last few episodes.
What I really want are moderately vague events and dialog that can can be arranged in many different ways to fit the pre-existing facts to paint different pictures that may define the world we have been immersed in. Much like the end of Razor, or the episode where Starbuck came back. It's what a majority of Sci-Fi fans want! Puzzles!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ugh! I can't stop watching! Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Next question, what the hell happened on Earth? And where the hell is the fifth? Not in the fleet, and from the looks of it Earth is also pretty lifeless. I think they left plenty of room for speculation with that end.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Holy....
When does it come back again....wow...what a way to end...
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
WOW!!! that was amazing!!!!!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Wow... Just..... wow
It's not as though this was completely unpredicted, but it's something else to see it on the screen.
I really want to comment more, but I'll leave that until after the episode has aired on tv.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Man, I really hate NBC/Universal right now. What's with the mid season breaks? 6 months til a new episode when they've already filmed them...why?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
WOW. The new AICN report puts the back half of the season at twelve hours, not the ten they'd originally planned.
There could be more!
(You lot are making it very tough to hold out from watching online, just so you know... )
(edit to correct terminology)
Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
I had to watch it online...and wow...just...wow... are you serious about the 6 month break!?!?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: Wow... okay, so uh...
It's just my personal opinion, but I think it'd be nice to hold off on spoilers until after it's aired. Even with the spoiler warning, it's treading a thin line.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:It's just my personal opinion, but I think it'd be nice to hold off on spoilers until after it's aired. Even with the spoiler warning, it's treading a thin line.
It's airing online right now -- officially on the Sci Fi website, and has been for hours (it's played 6 times to be precise). Most of us have clearly already watched it. Sorry, but I disagree as to where to place the arbitrary divider line of when it's okay to post spoilers. Waiting until it airs on TV is just ridiculously silly at this point.
If I'd downloaded it illegally or read them off a website, I might agree with you. But that's because chances would be that most people wouldn't have watched it yet. At this point it's clear most hatrackers reading this have already watched it. And those that hadn't when I posted still could before reading the spoiler.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Well, I think we can compromise for the benefit of our fellow fans and be cautious with spoilers till after it airs on TV. I'm game with that. Although... as long as spoiler warnings are properly you are expected to have the strength of will not to look any further if you don't want to.
[ June 13, 2008, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm officially swearing off opening this thread until after 11:01 pm, EDT. Don't worry about spoiling me, because I won't be here to see it. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was swearing it off too, but the crazed posts actually pushed me to watch it online for the first time. I missed the first 20 minutes though, so I have some catching up to do later tonight. I'll save comments until I get home from work later tonight as well.
But I have to say, I'm even more pissed now that we have to wait six plus months to find out what happens. We already waited like 9 months the last time, and now we might have to wait 9 more? I love BSG, but this seals it: When Caprica comes out, I'm not watching until the series finale airs.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon:
quote:It's just my personal opinion, but I think it'd be nice to hold off on spoilers until after it's aired. Even with the spoiler warning, it's treading a thin line.
It's airing online right now -- officially on the Sci Fi website, and has been for hours (it's played 6 times to be precise). Most of us have clearly already watched it. Sorry, but I disagree as to where to place the arbitrary divider line of when it's okay to post spoilers. Waiting until it airs on TV is just ridiculously silly at this point.
If I'd downloaded it illegally or read them off a website, I might agree with you. But that's because chances would be that most people wouldn't have watched it yet. At this point it's clear most hatrackers reading this have already watched it. And those that hadn't when I posted still could before reading the spoiler.
No big deal. Like I said, it was just a personal opinion. I watched it, but I'm not planning on saying anything about it before it airs on TV. YMMV, and apparently does.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: We already waited like 9 months the last time, and now we might have to wait 9 more?
Last time we waited over a calendar year. Not that I was counting, or anything...
I think I'd like to have Bear McCreary's babies.
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Wow!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I think I'd like to have Bear McCreary's babies.
Get in line sparky. I've been wanting to have Bear McCreary's babies since the first season. Biology be damned!
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote: Entering the solar system of the uncharted star, they notice that it fits legends about Earth's solar system. The sixth planet has very prominent rings, much more so than any known gas giant. Also the third planet, the one fit for life, possesses an abnormally large moon for any planet other than a gas giant. Obviously this is Earth and its solar system.
On the approach to Earth, they detect that it is highly radioactive, and not capable of supporting life.
I'm worried now I'll lose interest in BSG, I really wanted to see a powerful interstellar Human republic capable of destroying any Cylon attack with ease, but now we see an irridiated Earth. I can never seem to keep an interest in scifi where Earth is not a powerful center of some empire or another, best example is that I never got into Andromeda.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
So, it finally finished airing in the Pacific time zone.
Can we talk about it yet?
First dibs on yelling
"They blew it up! Damn them! Damn them all to hell!"
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
"All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again"
...
They might want to keep a close eye on those centurions.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd say fair game.
Some thoughts...
The final Cylon is NOT in the fleet. D'anna said that only four were in the fleet. That has to mean that either the last cylon is on the baseship already, or that it's somewhere else in the Colonies or other fleet of baseships.
I think the Cavils and their ilk have the other final cylon and got to Earth first and nuked it. That's a WAG, but I don't really see what else is plausible. And I don't get why getting to Earth at all would be that important, that so much would be put together the lead the way all mystically, if when they got there it would be destroyed, especially the Temple that showed them a beautiful Earth on Kobol.
Obviously there has to be more to this, especially since there is still half a season to go, but whatever it is has to be totally out in left field and I don't think we'll be able to guess it. I kind of knew this was coming, from the spoiler I read a long time ago that talked about ruins, but I feel just as disappointed as the crew of the fleet must be. There has to be something more.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
OMFG... we killed ourselves!
All that way for nothing! They might as well have remained on the other 12 nuclear wastlands. The Cavil faction did not do this... they had no way of detecting the signal that only Kara's rebuilt Viper picked up.
We killed ourselves. "DAMN YOU! YOU BLEW IT UP!"
Those ruins are ancient... and the radiation is too low for a recent event.
I was so impressed with James O's acting when he found out about Tigh... He and Mary really need an emmy. To see Tory immediatly abandon her people for another and then to see Tigh willing to sacrifice himself for the Galactica Fleet...
And when they found Earth... the music and everything brought me to tears. A great alliance and everyone forgiven. So glorious!
And then....
They came too late. We did not survive our technological adolescence. All for nothing.
BUT... Humans and Cylons are being manipulated by SOMETHING else. This force resurrected Starbuck and rebuilt her figher. This force is behind the head people. This force is trying to get Humans and Cylons together... in my theroy to make them interbreed...
"The new generation of God's Children"
The last half will deal with the greater mysteries of what happened to Earth, Starbuck's rebirth, Cylon/Human interbreeding, the head beings, the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon God.
I wonder what the Cavil Faction will do... are they still battling the remaining renegades across the Galaxy? Can they even find Earth now that all links with Galactica are lost? Will we ever see the Ones, Fours, Fives, and Boomer again?
The horrible disapointment of the dead Earth will surely cause riots in the Human survivors and splinter the alliance too.
What left is there? Set up a colony? Is it even safe to live there or grow crops? There's nowhere to go and no way back to the 12 Colonies, which are as dead as Earth.
Is Humanity doomed?
And the Book of Pythia... Lee opened up to the image of the City of the Gods of Kobol and said it was supposed to be on Earth too. And what of the ruins? Looks like the Opera House... And in the background the Brooklyn Bridge and New York City.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was wondering if that was what that was supposed to be.
That can't be the end. Something must have survived, people must've survived. I refuse to believe that no matter how old, the human race was totally exterminated on the planet. People survived on the Colonies when the Cylons nuked them. Even a nuclear winter would be survivable. They'd find a way. They can't just get to Earth and turn around again, there has to be something there. I too think there will be a push for Cylon/Human interbreeding, if for no other reason than the desire for just a little bit more genetic diversity with such a small population.
Depending on how long ago it was, the soil COULD be safe, but it might be necessary to remove the top few feet of soil and then use the stuff underneath that'd probably be fine. Maybe the Cylons/Humans of the fleet have better technology for cleaning up after such a disaster.
I think they'll discover survivors.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I couldn't stop myself, went and bought the episode from amazon. On closer inspection I saw what looks like a wrecked car. And a cross on a stone. And just by the bridge there's a dome-like structure with pillars that might be the Forum of Kobol/Caprica/Book of Pythia.
Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
I kept waiting to see the Statue of Liberty on it's side. I know it would have been cheesy, but it would have been so cool too! Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I wonder how the Cavil faction is doing. It occurs to me that if the humans and cylons could form some sort of lasting peace, then Kobol seems like it would make a heck of a lot better place to settle than Earth, at the moment, or New Caprica again. Heck, even Caprica itself seemed to be in better shape than what we saw of Earth. Although that's probably some of the worst of the damage rather than typical, since the planet still looked normal from space, and apparently still had a breathable atmosphere.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Kobol is gone for good. The star next to it went Super Nova to create the Eye of Apollo.
I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one that had "You maniacs!!!" going through my head as I watched that.
I agree that New York is probably the WORST part of the planet (or at least, one of a couple dozen) as it was likely ground zero for a nuclear strike. As colonists, they would be better off in greener areas anyway, which are very much less likely to be as radioactive.
Assuming that that city WAS once ground zero for a nuke, then I would say it must have been quite a while since the attack if the colonists are just casually standing around outside without worrying about radiation poisoning. Of course, I'm no expert on the matter. Are Hiroshima or Nagasaki habitable these days?
That final scene would have been a golden opportunity for Adama or Roslin to turn to D'Anna and say something along the lines of: "This is what you did to our home."
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Kobol is gone for good. The star next to it went Super Nova to create the Eye of Apollo.
That happened twice? I think you're talking about the star that went nova on the planet with the Temple of Five. The algae planet. That was way, way, way far away from Kobol.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are livable, and in fact thousands of people live there. But the difference between a few kilotons and a few megatons is vast. I have no idea how long it lasts in the soil for weapons of that magnitude.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Apparently, the city is Sydney - at least according to some crazy people on other boards. But the bridge and skyline seem to match up...
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: I was so impressed with James O's acting when he found out about Tigh...
He almost made me cry (it takes a lot to make me cry..blame it on the Prozac). Amazing acting!
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Hmm, you're right. I just rewatched the Eye of Jupiter episode. Well damn... now that they've come to terms with the Cylons, why don't they just go back to Kobol? I assume the reason they didn't stay in the first place is because the Cylons were hot on their trail. That doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. Problem solved, even if the mystery of Earth isn't.
Aside from the initial disappointment of finding a shattered Earth, it really cost them nothing more than time and the resources needed to jump back, which are, compared to the gain, negligible.
Or was there some other reason they can't go back? I wish I still had Season 1 so I could check... although I suppose I could get it...
Edited: Season 1 it seems...
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
Just went back and watched the episodes pertaining to Kobol (it starts with the season 1 finale and goes alomst halfway through season2). It seems like they just up and left the place like it was nothing... No mention of it after they saw the constellations in the Tomb of Athena. No reason why they couldn't stay except some vague passage in their scriptures about Zeus warning against returning or blood would be spilled blah blah blah. But even in the show, nobody seemed to make a big deal about that, so I doubt it has anything to do with why they left.
Actually, I don't think the Cylons even had a presence there by the end of that arc (I skimmed though, so I might be wrong).
I hope this loose end is tied up when the series reaches its end.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:And in the background the Brooklyn Bridge and New York City.
"Hey, this ain't Earth. This is New Joisey."
--j_k
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Why did Tory say "I'm human again"?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I missed that. When was it?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
After the radio went on in her head, she staggered, and I thought that's what she said. I couldn't rewind to check, because I was watching it streaming, but I could swear that's what she said.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I thought she said "I'm hearing it again."
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
What all issues still need to be resolved in the second half of the season.
Here's what's coming to mind offhand:
Where are they all going to settle now that Earth is looking uninhabitable.
What happened to Earth anyways
Who is the fifth Cylon.
What's the deal with the final five anyways, especially their age and connection to Earth.
Someone sent out those signals and gave Kara a new ship. Who?
How did Kara survive anyways? Or did she even truly survive in the first place.
Where do head six/ head baltar/ FTL Elosha come from? Six claims she's an angel from the cylon god, and at this point it seems as likely as anything. At any rate, wherever they come from, the source clearly seems to be interested in keeping Baltar safe and in the middle of everything.
And a few other questions that are interesting but somewhat less likely to get answered IMO:
What are the gods/lords of Kobol anyways?
What happened on Kobol to make everyone leave. I don't know if we'll find this out, but I do suspect that it will tie in to what is going on now, and if so there seems to be a decent chance we'll find out.
The 12 colonies were not only close to each other, but they were relatively close to Kobol. What made the 13th tribe move so far away from all others.
Any obvious ones I'm missing here?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I don't know if the 12 Colonies were all that close to Kobol, remember they made almost 300 emergency jumps away from the 12 Worlds when they were being chased by the Cylons in "33". That's WAY more than they take at any point later on in the series.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
If the book by that guy who wrote Day of the Triffids is any indication Labrador and New Zealand should be perfectly habitable.
In all seriousness unless all the major powers choose to dish it out with the colbalt jacket hi yield nukes there should be a tonne of people still there.
Unless they evacuated to nearby systems? Maybe the next episode will have human republican vessels from nearby systems or from the other parts of the solar system show up and demand who they are?
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
Yeah, I knew something was wrong when there were no satellites or transmissions with someone asking who the hell just jumped into Earth's orbit. Seemed a little premature when they started celebrating....
I can't believe they got to this point already, I was not expecting it in the least. It kills me that we have to wait until 2009 to find out where it's going next!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I thought she said "I'm hearing it again."
Ah. Thanks.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The final season may be expanding from 10 eps to 12!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
At this point, I'd trade those two episodes if it meant finding out what happens sooner than a year from now.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
I wonder if they will reach the following conclusion: at some point in the not to distant future the Cavil faction of the Cylons will find them and will probably arrive with overwhelming force. If they are going to stay on Earth they almost have to defeat them Ender's Game style, fleet by fleet til they get to the Cylon Homeworld. After the best defense is a good offense.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
I don't see them staying on Earth, my suspicion is that they'll find a clue there which will lead them to the identity of the fifth Cylon, and the mystery of why the final five seem to be from Earth. Perhaps they are originally from Earth, but they must have gone somewhere else. Undoubtedly they will go wherever that is.
I think it's clear at this point that the final five are Cylons from whenever this previously "happened before", hence the destruction of Earth.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: If they are going to stay on Earth they almost have to defeat them Ender's Game style, fleet by fleet til they get to the Cylon Homeworld. After the best defense is a good offense.
With what, though? They have one damaged base ship, and one aging battlestar. At best, they would have to face a severe supply problem. When have they been able to rearm since the Pegasus. And while they can manufacture fuel, I would find it hard to believe that they can mass produce the missiles, shells, and bullets needed to launch an offensive.
Cavil's faction may or may not have the facilities to construct more baseships (and I suspect that getting resurrection back online would be more important anyways), and all the while Galactica would likely be feeling the effects of fighting continually for years with no real chance to stop and do anything more than haphazardly patching up their damage.
Strategic strikes are one thing, but an actual offensive just isn't realistic.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
But at the same time, the Cylon Homeworld WAS the Central Hub. They've already won in a way.
Even if there are still billions of Cylons out there with thousands of Baseships, the Civil War is still going on. They are destroying each other, now permanently. And since the Cylon Fleet is split down the middle it's like a matter/anti-matter annialation, there won't be many Cylons left after this I'll wager.
But, the whole Cylon Main Fleet (what remains) is in the general area of Earth, spread out of course. I guess it's not out of the question that some Cylon ship stumbles on Earth sometime.
How and where do the Cylons build more ships? Do the Basestars have babies? Do they have mobile shipyards? I assume they have the power to rebuild with what hardware they have now, otherwise they wouldn't have abandoned their Homeworld for Earth.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
i think Earth's location being as unknown as it is would make it very unlikely that the other Cylon's will ever find it.
Also there's still the possibility of a Earth based Interstellar thingy that inhabits the solar system and adjacent habital worlds.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Even if there are still billions of Cylons out there with thousands of Baseships, the Civil War is still going on. They are destroying each other, now permanently. And since the Cylon Fleet is split down the middle it's like a matter/anti-matter annialation, there won't be many Cylons left after this I'll wager.
I had assumed that the Sixes and Eights, etc that are currently with the fleet are all that's left of them, that the rest got wiped out when the Cavils betrayed them. Hence I figured that there were far more "bad" Cylons than "good", which would make the show more interesting insofar as the humans would be allied with the weaker faction and would still have to contend with the tough guys, who may nevertheless be greatly diminished in power.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Originally posted by dawnmaria: I kept waiting to see the Statue of Liberty on it's side. I know it would have been cheesy, but it would have been so cool too!
You are not alone. Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I just can't believe it. All that stuff about finding earth, the final 5, Starbuck's disappearance. I wanted them to meet some Earthlings so bad.
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
I think the 5th cylon is on earth somewhere. possibly with a small nation of survivors.
I wonder if they will call themselves the morlocks and live underground...
Or maybe when all 5 cylons are reunited they discover they have powerful rings, that when their powers combine a super cylon appears, and introduces himself to everyone with the same line everytime like, "I am Captain Cylon!"
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: If they are going to stay on Earth they almost have to defeat them Ender's Game style, fleet by fleet til they get to the Cylon Homeworld. After the best defense is a good offense.
With what, though? They have one damaged base ship, and one aging battlestar. At best, they would have to face a severe supply problem. When have they been able to rearm since the Pegasus. And while they can manufacture fuel, I would find it hard to believe that they can mass produce the missiles, shells, and bullets needed to launch an offensive.
Cavil's faction may or may not have the facilities to construct more baseships (and I suspect that getting resurrection back online would be more important anyways), and all the while Galactica would likely be feeling the effects of fighting continually for years with no real chance to stop and do anything more than haphazardly patching up their damage.
Strategic strikes are one thing, but an actual offensive just isn't realistic.
Wait... did you READ Ender's Game?
quote:Originally posted by ricree101: What all issues still need to be resolved in the second half of the season.
Here's what's coming to mind offhand:
Where are they all going to settle now that Earth is looking uninhabitable.
What happened to Earth anyways
Who is the fifth Cylon.
What's the deal with the final five anyways, especially their age and connection to Earth.
Someone sent out those signals and gave Kara a new ship. Who?
How did Kara survive anyways? Or did she even truly survive in the first place.
Where do head six/ head baltar/ FTL Elosha come from? Six claims she's an angel from the cylon god, and at this point it seems as likely as anything. At any rate, wherever they come from, the source clearly seems to be interested in keeping Baltar safe and in the middle of everything.
And a few other questions that are interesting but somewhat less likely to get answered IMO:
What are the gods/lords of Kobol anyways?
What happened on Kobol to make everyone leave. I don't know if we'll find this out, but I do suspect that it will tie in to what is going on now, and if so there seems to be a decent chance we'll find out.
The 12 colonies were not only close to each other, but they were relatively close to Kobol. What made the 13th tribe move so far away from all others.
Any obvious ones I'm missing here?
How is 6 pregnant with Tigh's child?
How is Kara the Harbinger of Death to the human race?
What's the deal with the opera house?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Maybe the 5th is one of the Human/Cylon children...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't see how that'd be possible.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I'm curious about this series, I've heard a lot about it. Where can a see the first few episodes so I can see if I like it?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Besides, all the Cylon/Human children are with the fleet.
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nick: I'm curious about this series, I've heard a lot about it. Where can a see the first few episodes so I can see if I like it?
33 is a fantastic first episode, if you like it you'll have to go back and watch the mini-series.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Probably best to start with the miniseries, but "33" will certainly start you off with a bang. For all the tension in the show, and all the surprises that follow in the later storylines, Season One I think really has the most energy to it.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I don't see how that'd be possible.
Yeah... you're right. Just brainstorming.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I want to watch the miniseries, but I don't want to pay 15 dollars and then not be interested. Is there any cheap way to see it that's legal? Probably not . . .
Oh well, maybe someday when I feel like I want to spend the money to see it I'll buy it.
Does the show only appeal to a specific group of people or is generally enjoyed by most any sci-fi enthusiats?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nick: I want to watch the miniseries, but I don't want to pay 15 dollars and then not be interested. Is there any cheap way to see it that's legal? Probably not . . .
Oh well, maybe someday when I feel like I want to spend the money to see it I'll buy it.
Does the show only appeal to a specific group of people or is generally enjoyed by most any sci-fi enthusiats?
Dude... just spend the cash and get the First Season set, includes the pilot... you won't regret it.
I'd totally loan it to you if you lived by me... I love breaking in newbies.
And BSG is very appealing to a large range of people, not just sci-fi fans.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nick: I want to watch the miniseries, but I don't want to pay 15 dollars and then not be interested. Is there any cheap way to see it that's legal? Probably not . . .
Oh well, maybe someday when I feel like I want to spend the money to see it I'll buy it.
Does the show only appeal to a specific group of people or is generally enjoyed by most any sci-fi enthusiats?
Legal? No. Worth it? Most definately.
$15 seems a small price to me, it really is that good (from someone who is spending every available moment catching up on the first 3 series on his iPod*).
I woudl say it has something for every Sci-Fi fan, from action, romance, politics, who-dunnit suspense, great good-guys, evil baddies, great baddies and evil good-guys, oh and splendid spaceships.
:0)
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
I'm not cheap, I just don't like wasting money.
If you say it's THAT good, then I'll start with the mini-series.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Try your local library. I know libraries really vary in the selection of DVDs they have, but it's probably worth a look, especially if they have an online catalog.
Also, be aware that you can buy the miniseries separately, but the season 1 DVDs include the miniseries.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I first watched it on Netflix.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Can you watch the show from Netflix without getting sent the discs?
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:Seemed a little premature when they started celebrating....
I agree. I found this episode a bit disappointing. The decision to share the discovery of Earth with the Cylons was a huge one- one that I would have liked to see deliberation on rather than a rushed explanation from Lee. I appreciated Bill and Tigh's reactions and choices, but everybody else's feelings seemed skipped over.
I'm concerned that this twist is going to take away from fully explaining the current loose ends and properly wrapping up the series. I want them to get back in to the deep religious visions and prophecies and talk of purpose. Even more, I want to see the relationships on the show in the detail they're sometimes shown and how each of the characters copes with starting whatever life they're going to start. I want to see how the cylons integrating in to human society goes. I don't want these aspects to take a back seat to a "what happened to earth" plot.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:Seemed a little premature when they started celebrating....
I agree. I found this episode a bit disappointing. The decision to share the discovery of Earth with the Cylons was a huge one- one that I would have liked to see deliberation on rather than a rushed explanation from Lee. I appreciated Bill and Tigh's reactions and choices, but everybody else's feelings seemed skipped over.
I'm concerned that this twist is going to take away from fully explaining the current loose ends and properly wrapping up the series. I want them to get back in to the deep religious visions and prophecies and talk of purpose. Even more, I want to see the relationships on the show in the detail they're sometimes shown and how each of the characters copes with starting whatever life they're going to start. I want to see how the cylons integrating in to human society goes. I don't want these aspects to take a back seat to a "what happened to earth" plot.
Oh I'm sure they'll get back to all the visions and prophecies and whatnot... that's all that's left and the true cause behind all that's happened. The "what happened to Earth" will take a little time but very little I imagine, at least before it becomes the key to all the prophecies.
And as for the quick decision to go to Earth, we've already had those debates in previous episodes... and they DO want to share it with the Cylons... any more debate would take up valueble screen time and we know anyway what the outcome would be. And I agree with Adama that given too much time and the alliance would break down. Of course it's doomed to break down anyway especially with finding Earth dead... I'd rather deal with it after finding Earth than before.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
So whatcha think Laura is burning? I bet it's the Sacred Scrolls, starting with the Book of Pythia.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
When was Laura burning something?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Yeah, I don't remember that.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
In the preview for 4.5.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
But first shown in the BSG Last Supper picture.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: But first shown in the BSG Last Supper picture.
Wow, I never noticed that before. Has it always been there?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Frakkin internet ate my post but, a shortened version:
The idea that she's burning the scrolls is attractive, but I wonder about the many other things that it could also represent. I never saw her holding the match before.
I also wonder about the positioning and behavior of other people. Why is Caprica Six at the center of all things? Why is Natalie pointing at her accusatorily? Why is Galen holding a knife? Maybe because he'll kill Tori when he finds out what she did?
[ June 19, 2008, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: But first shown in the BSG Last Supper picture.
Wow, I never noticed that before. Has it always been there?
I read somewhere that the photo on the website was altered, but there wasn't anything specific mentioned on what was changed.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
can anyone give a link please?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm looking at the photo that was posted on EW that I linked to on the second page of this thread, and it looks like she is still burning something.
One thing is different. In the original photo, Roslin has a match, and there's a big candle/fire in front of her sitting on the table, but in the one on Sci-Fi right now the fire is missing and she's just holding the match. Moore said of the flame that "she's burning something of importance that has to do with a plot turn midseason."
That seems to be the only difference I can find, and it's pretty glaring now that I see it. In addition, Moore says that in the photo, Athena and Helo are responding to someone in their wary hug, and it looks like Natalie is pointing at them. I wonder if the foreshadowing there was the precursor to Athena killing Natalie. That'd make one thing true from the picture.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
OK, I haven't read anything in this thread yet because I just finished season three.
Where can I get season 4? iTunes? Some other shop? Bit torrent? What episode are they on?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
There's no hurry. It's on hiatus for six months.
At least.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
You can buy all the episodes for download on Amazon.com.
Thanks Telp! That is exactly what I was looking for. I will buy it!
Before I do, did you get to that link through Hatrack's link? I would like OSC to get even a little off of my purchase, especially since Hatrack pointed me in the right direction.
I always try to remember to buy through here. Hatrack has been an amazing community in my life over the past few years, and this is the only tangible way I can thank OSC.
Should I clear my cookies, log back into Hatrack, and go through the Amazon link at the top of the page? Or will going through your link still support Hatrack?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Negative... had looked it up myself a while ago. Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I just finished watching the first 10 episodes of season four. The one thing I learned is that at least 4 of the 5 are teletubbies.
Every time the 4 of the 5 started to hear that noise I was sure that phone thingy was going to come out of the ground.
I can't wait for the last episode. We still need the Cylon civil war to be resolved.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Producers recently announced end-of-the-summer production of a two-hour standalone "Galactica" prequel that will air in 2009 after the series finale.
...
The movie is a prequel that gives some insight into the machinations of the cylons before they unleashed the nuclear holocaust that wiped out all but 50,000 human inhabitants of the 12 colonies. "Galactica" star Edward James Olmos will direct and Dean Stockwell (Cylon No. 1), Aaron Douglas (Chief Tyrol) and Michael Trucco (Sam Anders) — all "skinjobs," cylons who appear to be human — will participate.
A (hopeful) yay! (I'm not much of a prequels fan though. Still, extra Galactica!)
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Quick note - "He That Believeth in Me" is available for free download (and in HD, I think) on iTunes. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Since this thread has been bumped...
Am I the only one who thinks that the fifth is Elosha (Black priestess lady who got blown up on Kobol)? I've been tossing this around since the other 4 were revealed but no one seems to agree with me.
It could make sense though. Her dying obviously isn't a problem. The fifth will likely be a woman since so far only 4 out of 11 known cylons are female. She appeared to Roslin in her jump-induced visions (which also provided a convenient reason to have her on set during the last season without making anyone suspicious if it got out). She's not in the fleet (I'm guessing she resurrected on Earth somehow, maybe that's where the final five download when they die). And no one seems to suspect her.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Aren't all the final five in the fleet?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
D'anna specifically said that 4 of them were in the fleet, which also explains why the matter comes to a close when the 4 are revealed. For some reason most fans don't seem to suspect characters who have died even though we know that cylons resurrect and that would explain the fifth not being in the fleet. If the fifth isn't with the humans nor with the other cylons he/she has to be on Earth or is someone who died and downloaded to an unknown location (again, probably Earth) I also suspect Billy, but not as much as Elosha.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Do we know that the final 5 definitely resurrect?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
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