[ April 03, 2008, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Patrick Stewart is just so hot!
And I love the mustache.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Shouldn't there be a comma in that title? I first read this as "Trek fans' too-tight uniforms" (which honestly is why I clicked that link) but it seems it should be "Trek fans, too-tight uniforms."
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I only -thought- I typed an "and" up there. Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Did they only wear that crazy suit for one season? I've only seen a handful of episodes, but I'm sure a few were from later seasons. What did the later uniforms look like?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by maui babe: Did they only wear that crazy suit for one season?
Well, the ultra-tight version resurfaced in the final episode, when Picard began visiting different periods in time.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
My roommate and I watched that final episode two nights ago. We're fighting through the last season of Babylon 5 (which has gotten measurably less enjoyable), and the last episode of Star Trek made me want to watch that whole series all over again!
And for the fun of it, a bunch of Patrick Stewart videos:
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I only -thought- I typed an "and" up there.
I believe the convention has become that you would not use a comma if the two: "star trek fans" and "uniforms," were related. With a comma after the "and," you denote that indeed, fans and uniforms are separate items of business.
What you've written here is not necessarily to be taken as linking the fans with wearing too-tight uniforms, however the sentence is more ambiguous. With a comma after the "and," you would clearly show that there is a distinction between two subjects.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The uber tight uniforms were only in the first season, maybe part of the second season. After that Picard either wore the new style, or the grey shirt with red jacket.
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I only -thought- I typed an "and" up there.
I believe the convention has become that you would not use a comma if the two: "star trek fans" and "uniforms," were related. With a comma after the "and," you denote that indeed, fans and uniforms are separate items of business.
What you've written here is not necessarily to be taken as linking the fans with wearing too-tight uniforms, however the sentence is more ambiguous. With a comma after the "and," you would clearly show that there is a distinction between two subjects.
Davidson's Law is a harsh thing.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The tight uniforms were worn for the first two seasons. The looser-fitting uniforms were worn from the third season onward.
Not that I'm a trek fan or anything. Not at all.
Also, I love that Stewart totally owned that reporter. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I believe the convention has become that you would not use a comma if the two: "star trek fans" and "uniforms," were related. With a comma after the "and," you denote that indeed, fans and uniforms are separate items of business.
What you've written here is not necessarily to be taken as linking the fans with wearing too-tight uniforms, however the sentence is more ambiguous. With a comma after the "and," you would clearly show that there is a distinction between two subjects.
I originally had nothing between the two, comma or "and", so I can understand how I confused kq. Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
"Product placement: unengage!"
Lyrhawn wins.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: After that Picard either wore the new style
And perfected the Picard Maneuver.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: After that Picard either wore the new style
And perfected the Picard Maneuver.
Which was followed shortly thereafter by the invention of the Picard Maneuver drinking game!
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Is the Picard Maneuver when he tugs his shirt?
If not, then I'm flummoxed.
[ April 03, 2008, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: The White Whale ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:Is the Picard Maneuver when he tugs his shirt?
Yes, yes it is.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: Is the Picard Maneuver when he tugs his shirt?
Yup.
"I guess you need classical training to deliver a line like that!" Posted by Humean316 (Member # 8175) on :
quote: Is the Picard Maneuver when he tugs his shirt?
Yes, but you also have to have a cup of Earl Grey Tea, hot.
So what is everyone's favorite Trek series? I love The Next Generation, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine, in that order, followed by Star Trek and Enterprise.
The Next Generation is seminal TV, and it ended much much better than it began, which says something when compared to shows like Buffy or The X-Files. Plus, that episode where Picard lives an entire life as a simple man on a distant plan with a family in only 20 minutes, may in fact be the greatest hour of tv I have ever seen.
It's up there with Two Cathedrals (The West Wing) and The Gift (Buffy).
BTW, Picard is better than Kirk... Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I like Enterprise it is also the only series I have seen 90% of.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
As for favorite episode, it had to be the Best of Both Worlds. That cliffhanger at the end of Part I was a killer.
Posted by Humean316 (Member # 8175) on :
Oh absolutely. Best of Both Worlds was great, but have you seen The Year of Hell? It was the two part episode on Voyager where the time ship began to change history in the Delta Quadrant, and Voyager came under constant attack. I think that two part episode is on par with Best of Both Worlds, both in scope and complete emotional resonance. It was absolutely brilliant.
Spoilers...
s
s
It ended with Janeway crashing Voyager into the time ship in order to destroy it, a Janeway who was scared from walking into a fire and the crew in escape pods on the way to the Alpha Quadrant. Great episode.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
"Year of Hell" was also part of that great epic tradition that Voyager really tried to follow with two part episodes. I remember being about 14 when this episode came out, and being absolutely riveted to every second of it. For me, Voyager and Deep space nine came at this time where tv shows can really have a powerful impact- and this was one that was done SO well. Brilliant.
It also honored the tradition of Voyager being under fire and shaking itself apart in every other episode. The great thing about the feel of the show, which is so different from the Enterprise on TNG, is that you really feel like Voyager is in constant physical danger, and it's like a submarine movie from the 1950s, with the people inside just gritting their teeth and hanging on for the ride.
With TNG, it was always some insidious force that the crew needed to figure out in order for them to find a way to defeat it- it was always sort of invisible. But with Voyager, the ship was getting torn up, twisted into new shapes, I think there are at least five episodes where the ship is just destroyed outright- in some alternate dimension, or a possible future, or whatever. That only happened once that I can think of on TNG- but even when the Enterprise-D was eventually destroyed, it was not a harrowing duel, but a cheap shot that did it- more invisible forces.
You have that, and Voyager being hijacked numerous times, by virtually every group they ever encountered- being assimilated, being turned into a holodeck, crashing in the 100th episode, and so on.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You just explained about 30% of why Voyager sucked.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I only -thought- I typed an "and" up there.
I believe the convention has become that you would not use a comma if the two: "star trek fans" and "uniforms," were related. With a comma after the "and," you denote that indeed, fans and uniforms are separate items of business.
What you've written here is not necessarily to be taken as linking the fans with wearing too-tight uniforms, however the sentence is more ambiguous. With a comma after the "and," you would clearly show that there is a distinction between two subjects.
um, wha?
-o-
Oh, and TNG all the way!
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Icarus, he saw the current title, not the one before ('...on Trek fans too-tight uniforms'). If it doesn't make sense it's because people were talking about different things.
-o-
Oh, and TNG all the way! Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You just explained about 30% of why Voyager sucked.
Yeah, cause there were so many better shows at the time....
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It and DS9 ran concurrently for a while. DS9 was a far better show, in my opinion, especially when compared to the early seasons of Voyager.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: DS9 was a far better show, in my opinion, especially when compared to the early seasons of Voyager.
We've had this argument before.
You're still wrong. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: It and DS9 ran concurrently for a while. DS9 was a far better show, in my opinion, especially when compared to the early seasons of Voyager.
You are correct, but it's unfair to compare a late season of one ST show to an early season of another. Don't you remember how much TNG and DS9 sucked at first?
That being said, Voyager wasn't nearly as bad as people now like to say. I think it's another manifestation of familiarity breeding contempt.
Although I will agree that Janeway was annoying as hell. She reminds me of Holden, in a way. Posted by Humean316 (Member # 8175) on :
quote: It and DS9 ran concurrently for a while. DS9 was a far better show, in my opinion, especially when compared to the early seasons of Voyager.
I'd put any episode of Voyager up against the first two seasons before the Dominion on Deep Space Nine, and I would bet that Voyager would win every time. Whether it was Kes or 7 of 9, I always thought Voyager tended to be better, simply because I think there is much more of that familial bond in the crew of Voyager. To me, thats what I love about TNG, the friendships and families on that ship were special, as were the friendships on Voyager, but on Deep Space Nine that familial relationship always felt forced, as if the writers were more interested in The Dominion than they were in the bond of the characters on DS9. And I am really a character guy, I value character much more than story.
Still, the Dominion War was absolutely a brilliant arc on DS9, and yet, I love Voyager just a little bit more.
Actually, I like TNG much more than both of them, but as I said, Year of Hell was just awesome.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
TNG, ST, DS9, Voyager (because of the annoyingness of Janeway), Enterprise
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I think the actual story arcs that DS9 had was a good addition to Trek in general. With TNG, most of the time what happened in one episode didn't affect any of the ones following (aside from two part episodes, and the episode "Family" in the fourth season since it connected to "The Best of Both Worlds").
While I didn't mind the episodic nature of TNG, I always wondered how someone could be tortured in one episode, and perfectly fine in the next episode.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian:
While I didn't mind the episodic nature of TNG, I always wondered how someone could be tortured in one episode, and perfectly fine in the next episode.
Come on, with how advanced their regenerative based medicine was of course they could heal any wounds from torture within a few hours if not a day.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: It and DS9 ran concurrently for a while. DS9 was a far better show, in my opinion, especially when compared to the early seasons of Voyager.
You are correct, but it's unfair to compare a late season of one ST show to an early season of another. Don't you remember how much TNG and DS9 sucked at first?
That is the familiar arc of all the series. IF Enterprise had continued into a few more seasons, I think the results would have been much better.
Part of that is just the nature of the shows, which were always the most ambitious format for creative television. Coming up with 24 new episodes every year of decent programming is an incredible challenge. I have no idea how they managed.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: That being said, Voyager wasn't nearly as bad as people now like to say. I think it's another manifestation of familiarity breeding contempt.
Then why didn't people feel similar contempt towards the end of TNG or DS9? Or are you saying that it was familiarity with Star Trek as a whole that bred contempt? There may be some truth to that—Voyager eventually succeeded in turning me off Star Trek altogether—but I still think the show was in many ways simply not as good as either TNG or DS9.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Although I will agree that Janeway was annoying as hell. She reminds me of Holden, in a way. [Wink]
Oh my stars. You're right.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Or are you saying that it was familiarity with Star Trek as a whole that bred contempt?
Got it in two.
quote:. . . but I still think the show was in many ways simply not as good as either TNG or DS9.
I agree.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: TNG, ST, DS9, Voyager (because of the annoyingness of Janeway), Enterprise
TNG, DS9, VGR, TOS, ENT
And it's close on those last two. Actually, it's close on those last three.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I think what Voyager lacked was compelling characters and realistic character development. You would think that after all their years and struggles in the gamma quadrant, there would be some significant evolution of the characters but there just wasn't.
If you watch TNG, the characters evolve with time. Despite the fact that there is no over arching story, Picard isn't the same character in season 4, that he was in season 3. Data evolves, Warf evolves.
Janeway isn't one bit different at the end of the series than she was at the beginning. Neither are Chikote, Tuvak, or really any of the main characters. I'm not sure whether to blame that on the writers or the actors.
Whatever the reason, there isn't a single character in Voyager I ever cared about. They could have killed anyone on the show at anytime and I wouldn't have been moved emotionally.
That isn't true for the TNG, DS9 or even the original series. I cared about those characters in a way that I never could in Voyager.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
How did the characters in TOS change?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Sorry but I don't think I could do the characters justice in a short post. Sit down sometime and watch a first season episode and then watch one from much later in the series. Picard and Data go through the most obvious character development.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
He asked about TOS.
Icky, Kirk changed very little over the three years (far more if we include the movies), but Spock changed quite a bit. McCoy less so but still noticeably.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I think what Voyager lacked was not necessarily good character development, but good character dynamics. I've talked about this before elsewhere, but I think most people's eyes glaze over whenever I bring up Peircian semiotics.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: I think what Voyager lacked was not necessarily good character development, but good character dynamics. I've talked about this before elsewhere, but I think most people's eyes glaze over whenever I bring up Peircian semiotics.
I agree totally with this.
In just about any situation you could use Tom Paris, Chakotay, and Harry Kim interchangeably. They are essentially the same man.
I would argue that 7 of 9 definitely went through some significant character development.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
The Doctor did as well, no one has mentioned what a good character he was.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Exactly. If there's one thing TNG did right that some of the post-DS9 Trek shows didn't do so well, it was create strongly defined, powerfully different characters.
(TNG had that problem at first for a number of reasons, but once Roddenberry stopped fiddling, that show improved greatly)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: . . . most people's eyes glaze over whenever I bring up Peircian semiotics.
I agree totally with this.
Oh, me too!
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I like Pierce's classification of signs, but yeah, that would go over my head pretty quickly. I would think an anthropologist would be all over that conversation, though.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Things Trek does badly: Technobabble solutions that, despite being incredibly useful, are never used again. Omnipotent entities. Ridiculous mysticism, especially involving stoic Native American types. Conspiracies among higher-ups that inexplicably have no lasting effect on the Federation. Time travel. Things that rejigger DNA or "accelerate" evolution. Comic relief. Economic scarcity. Sexual tension.
So, given that list of things Trek has always been bad at doing, do you have any idea why Voyager sucked? Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I'd add women to that list. [Edit to add: Post-Uhura] Trek women are just awful at being realistic women.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Things Trek does badly: Comic relief.
I think that Leonard Nimoy, Patrick Stewart, and Brent Spiner managed to escape that, as they are performers who seem to have a good sense of timing.
They were able to make me smile at the clunky groaners by the twinkle in their eyes and the inflection in their voices. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:Come on, with how advanced their regenerative based medicine was of course they could heal any wounds from torture within a few hours if not a day.
I suppose that'd include psychological healing as well.
quote:Picard and Data go through the most obvious character development.
I agree wholeheartedly. Both of them were very different people at the end of the series.
However, the movies became very much the "Picard and Data show" instead of the more ensemble story it had been before. I think this killed some of the TNG movies, especially Nemesis.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: However, the movies became very much the "Picard and Data show" instead of the more ensemble story it had been before. I think this killed some of the TNG movies, especially Nemesis.
If you think about it, the earlier movies were mostly the Kirk and Spock show, and they didn't suffer as much for it. McCoy was always second runner up in those stories, but they often worked well.
Of course, in TNG the relationship between Picard and Riker was not as interesting because Riker was always such a good commander himself- and yet he was never a foil for Picard. You always felt that they were never friends, whereas Data and Picard had a different kind of relationship, as did Picard and Worf– one of the greatest lines from any of the movies was "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand," between Worf and Picard.
Then there were was trek's worst lead character ever, Dr. Crusher. I don't know if it was the acting or the writing, but there is nothing much appealing about Crusher, and her relationship with Picard always seemed forced and boring. Wesley, as an extension of that character, was TNG's second worst idea. In fact Wesley Wheaton has written several interesting blogs about the failings of his character, and of himself as a young actor that were very insightful.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
TNG, DS9, TOS, VOY, ENT. Although I didn't see much of early Voyager or late Enterprise, so my opinions on those are less complete.
I'm sure part of my love for TNG was that it was my first Star Trek series, and I was still pretty young when it was over. However, repeat viewings (particularly of the later seasons) hold up well. I agree that a major failing of that series (particularly compared to DS9 or to other sci-fi series such as Stargate) is the highly episodic nature, where major events in one episode are ignored in subsequent episodes. On the other hand, of all the captains, Picard is the one who is most convincing to me both as a negotiator and as a military commander. Never underestimate the power of Shakespearean training
It's funny that the most interesting character on Voyager was supposed to be eye-candy. Seven of Nine (with the EMH as a close second) was the most complex person on that ship. Ironic that the Borg drone and the computer program proved to have the greatest capacity for personal growth. As a side note, anyone see the episode where Tuvok and Neelix got fused during a transporter accident? I liked Tuvix way more than either of his "parents." They should have kept him.
Come to think of it, it's always the outsider characters who are the most interesting and have the most change. Spock, Data, Worf, Odo, Seven of Nine, the EMH...let's face it: humans are boring!
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by AvidReader: I'd add women to that list. [Edit to add: Post-Uhura] Trek women are just awful at being realistic women.
Blame Kirk for that. I'm sure that once he became Admiral he had some say in the Federation recruiting process...
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Nah, he'd have hired pleasant women. Post TOS women act like funny shaped men if they want to have any sort of authority. Sure there's always a great excuse for it (she's a Borg, a Klingon, a Vulcan) but they're always emotionless and lacking in non-physical feminity.
I call it Star Trek syndrome when I see it in other shows.
Posted by talsmitde (Member # 9780) on :
Voyager tried to do some good characterization with Janeway, but, yeah, it came off stilted and forced--the characterizations of B'Lanna (sp?), the EMH, and Seven were far more interesting.
While DS9 is still far and away my favorite Trek series, I like Voyager a lot more now than I did as a young teenager when it first started.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I think that is actually a remnant of the older generation of feminists. In my experience with female scientists, those who had to fight every step tend to be much less feminine. I have had female profs list traits that are feminine that I should work on eliminating if I ever want my male colleagues to take me seriously. My generation, who have had classes and workplaces with nearly 1:1 gender ratio, laugh at this idea.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
So many smart people. Yet so wrong! Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
One thing I disliked about Janeway (and later, Seven of Nine) is that I often felt like she was portrayed as being too good at everything.
Picard relied heavily upon his bridge officers. He asked them questions and he utilized their skills and abilities. He didn't always know the way to solve situations. One got the feeling that he was an excellent captain precisely because he could use his people so well.
It's been many years since I watched Voyager, but I seem to remember Janeway running the show much more, in the sense that she frequently shoed in on other people's jobs and devised brilliant solutions to problems that the relevant officer hadn't thought of... be it using weapon systems or engineering or what-have-you. I always got the impression an entire crew of Janeways would have been more effective than the existing crew.
And all of that goes double for Seven.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I couldn't disagree more on Dr. Crusher. I think she was great.
In fact, the general derision heaped on Dr. Pulaski leads me to believe that many people would agree with me.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: I couldn't disagree more on Dr. Crusher. I think she was great.
Something I can agree with. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: I couldn't disagree more on Dr. Crusher. I think she was great.
In fact, the general derision heaped on Dr. Pulaski leads me to believe that many people would agree with me.
Just because Pulaski was awful doesn't mean that Crusher was great.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The problem with Doctor Crusher was that the main sub-plots they kept pushing for her mostly tied into Wesley Crusher...who (and Wil Wheaton agrees with this!) was an extremely annoying character.
Plus, she was often reduced to the role of the person who babbled while a scanner did stuff. Whee.
The few times they broke her out of this (such as when Data coaxed her into teaching him to dance, or when she keyed into the Enterprise repeating the same day over and over again), we got to see signs of a performer and character who could sparkle. But these occasions were rare.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: One thing I disliked about Janeway (and later, Seven of Nine) is that I often felt like she was portrayed as being too good at everything.
Except for the bits where she broke down, that is. I don't understand the claim made by others earlier that her character never developed. There was a period where she retreated from the job entirely... and then there's the finale, which I can only interpret as her finally snapping.
I know people like that.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
It may be the particulars of how I came to like TNG, Puffy. I remember thinking it was awful during that first season, when they were actually recycling TOS plots on occasion, and the chemistry wasn't there, and the uniforms were ridiculous, and I stopped watching the show. Then, a few years later, there was nothing else on, and I watched an episode, and it was, I think, the one that introduced the Borg, and I was blown away, and though, damn, someone here is writing real science fiction. (I know it's trendy to sneer at ST in SF circles, but humor me.) The next episode I chanced to watch was "Remember Me," which was a Crusher episode, and I also thought it was fantastic and very thoughtful. After that, the next time I tuned in, I caught "The Drumhead," which again knocked my socks off. At this point, I figured out that this had actually turned into a damn good show somewhere along the line, and it became appointment TV for me (something no show since the fourth or fifth season of X-Files has been). So when I think of Beverly Crusher, I think of that excellent episode she was in. It's pretty much my first impression of her.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I don't dislike Doctor Crusher. I'm just saying she was usually not used in a way that would play to the endearing, potentially cool things about the character.
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
Jiordi LaForge was the MacGuyver of space. Who knew he could use that Inverse Tachyon Pulse generation thingy just lying around to seal a subspace rift? Right at the last second too.
Any guy who can do ground breaking theoretical physics in his head to generate novel applications of technology on demand is my kind of guy.
Was Brent Spiner any kind of actor or was he just naturally suited to appear to be trying to behave like a human? He had some opportunities to test his acting chops playing Data's evil twin or whatnot, but I think those only worked because all he had to do is act like not-Data and it'd work due to sheer contrast.
I actually loved TNG. Amazingly cheesy at times, though. And hugely, comically anachronistic. They have perfect tactile holography - and when the ship is threatened all of the high ranking officers take elevators to the bridge and sit around without seatbelts facing a big movie screen, instead of being plugged into secure VR pods in separate parts of the ship with independent life support systems so they don't all die at once. And for fights the tactics are roughly similar to those used in 20th century naval vessels. Oh well, I'm sure a lot of those decisions were based on what they figured would be good TV instead of any kind of actual thinking about technology.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I like the VR pods idea quite a bit. And in a concession to making it work dramatically, they could have had them all enter a shared virtual space that would function as a bridge.
As for their combat tactics, yeah--pretty absurd.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Was Brent Spiner any kind of actor or was he just naturally suited to appear to be trying to behave like a human? He had some opportunities to test his acting chops playing Data's evil twin or whatnot, but I think those only worked because all he had to do is act like not-Data and it'd work due to sheer contrast.
I've heard several of the TNG cast comment that Brent Spiner was both extremely funny and a great actor.
You should note that he played three different characters in TNG (Data, Lor and Dr. Sung) plus a Dr. Sung ancestor in Voyager.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
He was great in Sunday in the Park With George and The Snark-Out Boys and the Avocado of Death. Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I watch Night Court reruns in the morning before work, and Spiner pops up occasionally as the patriarch of the Wheeler clan. They were a wonderful, down-on-their-luck bunch who were always at the mercies of fate. Spiner was hilarious. His timing and delivery were always spot on.
I don't know how he was on ST, but he's a good actor.
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
The doctor on voyager stole the show every time. He was absolutely the best charachter.
Over all I liked Voyager, however it became laughable that they destroyed the Radial Flyer (sp?)what seemed like every 3rd episode.
I also agree on the lack of charachter development. The episode where Paris got married was one of my favorites, but then it turned out to be one of the alternate versions of voyager, which was cool inits own right, but the next episode we were right back to the wooden Paris. I would have liked to see him get married for real, and see how that changed the dynamics on the starship. voyager never took enough risks with the over-all storyline arc.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: You should note that he played three different characters in TNG (Data, Lor and Dr. Sung) plus a Dr. Sung ancestor in Voyager. [/QB]
I think that was Enterprise, not Voyager.
That three episode arc wasn't bad, but to me, it made Data's creator look like a tragic fool.
His grandfather makes makes super strong, super smart super people, and of course they get super arrogant, and start killing people. Rather predictable.
So then Dr. Soong makes a super strong, super smart android, and it too gets super arrogant, and starts killing people. Now it's the grandson doing exactly what the father did, and Dr. Soong is not so much a genius who miscalculated some, but he's a fool who ignored his own famiy history and made exactly the same error his grandfather did, with the exact same predicatable, lethal results. Makes him a lot less sympathetic.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I think that was Enterprise, not Voyager.
Yup, That's what I meant.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:The episode where Paris got married was one of my favorites, but then it turned out to be one of the alternate versions of voyager, which was cool inits own right, but the next episode we were right back to the wooden Paris. I would have liked to see him get married for real, and see how that changed the dynamics on the starship. voyager never took enough risks with the over-all storyline arc.
Paris and Torres did get married for real and had a child. It didn't help.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: Sing Along
I will be Trekrolling people using this.
You have all been warned.
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:The episode where Paris got married was one of my favorites, but then it turned out to be one of the alternate versions of voyager, which was cool inits own right, but the next episode we were right back to the wooden Paris. I would have liked to see him get married for real, and see how that changed the dynamics on the starship. voyager never took enough risks with the over-all storyline arc.
Paris and Torres did get married for real and had a child. It didn't help.
wow, I really don't remember the last season very well. I forgot all about that.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
That's because there wasn't much worth remembering in the last season. They got home, but you don't need to see the show to know that. It's in the formula.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: He was great in Sunday in the Park With George
And Phenomenon. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: That's because there wasn't much worth remembering in the last season. They got home, but you don't need to see the show to know that. It's in the formula.
I know I saw the last episode where they got home but I absolutely can't remember what happened. I have some vague memory about their being two time lines in the show and something about 7 or 9 being killed in one of them.
Its rather odd because I remember the final episode of TNG in great detail.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
My memories of the Voyager finale:
Janeway comes back from the future with Borg-fighting technology. They retrofit the ship, fly through Borg space and blow up a lot of Borg ships, and find a transwarp conduit that takes them to the Alpha Quadrant. They kill the Borg Queen again. Also, Seven of Nine and Chakotay inexplicably hook up. The end.
In other words: flagrant deus ex machina, Janeway's biggest Prime Directive violations yet, and the only romantic match-up that could make Worf and Troi look like a good idea.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
It annoyed me *a lot*, there were any number of earlier points where Janeway could have gone back and with either the extremely advanced technology or fore-knowledge could have brought Voyager back home much earlier. It was so incredibly arbitrary. Bah!
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
If the finale had involved the future Janeway taking the advanced technology back the very beginning of the series so that Voyager returned within a few days of its original departure into the gamma quadrant wiping all the events from the series from the time line, it would have at least been a more interesting plot twist.
Posted by swbarnes2 (Member # 10225) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: If the finale had involved the future Janeway taking the advanced technology back the very beginning of the series so that Voyager returned within a few days of its original departure into the gamma quadrant wiping all the events from the series from the time line, it would have at least been a more interesting plot twist.
But that would have been kind of sad, because Voyager did do some good in the Delta Quadrant. At the very least, Seven would still be a Borg drone.
I thought it would have been cool if the crew had learned that the Delta Quadrant jumped to join the Federation once it expanded out there, or if they founded their own Federation, because they remembered those nice Federation people who helped them. (Yes, there are a lot of people who would have bad memories of Voyager too)
Voyager could have done a lot of cool things...like have crew members leave the ship, and new alien ones join the crew throughout the show, or had the crew find a balance between the rigid Federation rules and Maquis sensibilities. But they didn't.
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)