I'm slow in catching on to new things sometimes. Like in this case.
There was an article in the New York Times in 2006 about No Knead Bread. Instead of kneading the bread, it sits for 12-18 hours, and apparently, that's enough for the gluten in the flour to do its trick.
The idea of a no-knead bread is really appealing to me for one reasons - my problem joints. I have problems with my hands, shoulders, and back, and a no knead recipe would be a beautiful solution, especially since bread making machines don't exist here.
So, my question is... Has anyone here done this, and if so, what's your experience been?
As well, I don't have a Dutch oven. I don't have cast iron. I haven't seen cast iron here, and what I have seen here that closely resembles a Dutch oven is a not-very-thick-at-all pot. Really, heavy pots are not something that exists here. So, that's out. So's a pizza stone, which is one variation I've seen on the many many many blog entries on no-knead bread. (Although, it's conceivable I could find a clay tile and cure it for cooking purposes, but I'd first have to make sure it's lead-free and otherwise suitable for cooking. But that's for another day.)
Right now, I want to use what I have - keep costs down, especially until I know how well this is going to work. So I'm thinking about using either a glass loaf pan or metal cake pans (two loaves side by side, for example) or even a clay pot that my buffalo milk curd comes in (I'd have to cure the clay pot first, but I already know how to do that, so not a problem.) So if any of you have used this method, have you used baking stuff similar to what I'm thinking about using? How'd it turn out?
(And I can't get started on this until tomorrow anyway - no fresh yeast in the house. )
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Why don't bread machines exist there?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I'd have to guess that there just isn't enough of a market. A lot of things don't exist here. I had to get my stick blender in Singapore - those aren't here, either. Can't get a marble rolling pin here, and marble mortar & pestles are available in one store only, which caters to the rich and the foreign - and are severely overpriced, even by North American standards.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I think I might have to try that no-knead recipe out...
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
There's no need for no-knead bread.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
The real question is, why isn't buffalo milk and curd readily available here? Buffalo milk makes an infinitely superior mozzarella/etc.
A dutch oven is a stewpot with a lid, or a pan with a lid, or a ____ with a lid. As long as the handle won't burn, you can use it as a dutch oven. Useta cook bread/cake/etc on hike-out&campouts in an extremely lightweight aluminum dutch oven / stewpot.
And yes, you can cook bread in clay pots. All ya hafta do is find a lid to put on it, if it doesn't come with one. Make sure that the lid does not fit tight / cannot be sealed tight by the heating&cooking process. If the lid seals tight, the pot will explode. Assuming the pot is made from non-toxic clay, otherwise the only real problem with clay pots is that bread/etc can stick on the surface, which can be fixed by liberally spreading ghee or vegetable shortening or similar edible grease onto the interior before cooking.
The only reason the recipes mention cast iron is cuz it's so heavy&thick that it spreads heat well by the time the interior is hot enough to cook anything. Could put any thick cast iron griddle or plate between the cookwear and the heat source to accomplish the same thing. Or pizza stone or brick or etc. The point of pizza stones is that they store heat well and release it slowly. It's the heat absorbtion&buffering between the cooking surface and the heat source (electric element or flame or etc) which is the desired characteristic (prevention of scorching&burning), and not some other physical (or mystical) property intrinsic to the stone itself. Putting any comparably thick&heavy flat stone(s) or brick(s) between the heat source and the cookwear (pan, pot, etc) will accomplish the same thing. You can put the cookwear directly on top of whatever you use as the heat buffering"stone".
Even in SriLanka, it should be fairly simple to find stores/markets carrying cooking stones, porous bricks, porous thick clay"griddle"s, etc that are specificly chosen/made for use on open flame or in ovens.
Gotta be careful in choosing only cuz some stones will explode when heated. Not a chemical explosion, but rather a steam explosion because of the water absorption&release properties intrinsic to particular rock types. Or a stress explosion because heating will expand the material in a manner as to cause explosively-sudden failure of the microscopic structure. And of course, as you mentioned, you have to be careful that the stone/brick/etc isn't toxic. Do not use anything that's been painted or glazed. Too often the paint or glaze will contain lead, which will leach lead out into water or moist food, which will outgas toxic lead fumes when heated. In Bangladesh, I'd be worried about arsenic cuz deep soils contain high arsenic levels, and so does water pumped out of deep wells.
[ March 30, 2008, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Water buffalo curd also (mostly) tastes great and has a great texture. Except when it doesn't, and then it's just rank...
aspectre, that's what I'm talking about - pots here really are not suitable for oven use. Handles are almost always plastic and will melt, for one thing. We can get small casserole dishes, but decent pots? Nope. That's why I've been thinking of the clay pots.
The other thing is that, if you check out the link to the recipe, it specifically calls for a heavy pot because the hot is to be pre-heated in the oven at a fairly high temperature for twenty minutes before the bread dough is put in it. That won't work with aluminum or other light pots or even clay pots. Which is why the questions.
Using clay pots for cooking here is traditional, and a couple of years ago, my mother in law bought a couple of clay pots for that specific reason. She cured them, using freshly shredded coconut, and cooking them over the fire (stovetop), and then used them for making curries. The theory is that the curries taste better. These particular pots aren't suitable for bread since they curve in near the top, hence me thinking of using my water buffalo curd pots, since those go straight up.
In a Google search, I learned that clay pots are used in making challah bread, and this site has brief, but easy, instructions on curing a clay pot. Different method than my mother in law used, but same basic idea.
Anyway, we're going grocery shopping today, so I'll pick up some yeast and give this a try and see how it goes. I'll report in with my results if anyone's interested.
I'm still interested in hearing if anyone else has done this and how it's worked out for you. Goody Scrivener, please let me know how this works for you. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: In a Google search, I learned that clay pots are used in making challah bread
Actually, someone has decided to make challah in a flowerpot. It's certainly not a traditional method. (Unless they're trying to go back to the days of earthenware pans. )
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
If you use it for bread, it stops being a flower pot and become a flour pot.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Rivka, true. I didn't know if it was an effort to go back to old methods or what, so thanks for clarification.
Tante, I'm just going to ignore you. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: I didn't know if it was an effort to go back to old methods or what
At a guess, it's someone being clever and creative.
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: Tante, I'm just going to ignore you.
Good luck with that. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Alton Brown made casseroles and smoked pork in flower pots. It's really good for slow cooking, he says.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I believe that. I have a much harder time believing it does anything all that marvelous for bread.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I'll give it a try and let you know. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Also, my sunset bread book (my bread-making bible) had a bunch of batter breads, one of which you rise and bake in a coffee can. If I could find my sunset bread book I'll try to get you the recipe.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Tante: I'm so jealous I didn't say that.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Don't feel bad, honey. We can't all be as incredibly awesome as I am.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Batter breads, eh? That sounds interesting. Sure, sarcasticmuppet, that'd be great. If they have any that are specifically for rice flours, say, that'd be even better. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
I think the only real difference between rice flour and wheat flour is the utter lack of gluten, so (I think) yeast breads won't do so well, since the gluten formation is so important to the final product. But I remember Alton Brown doing some kind of quickbread with...barley flour, or some other flour that doesn't have gluten. The good news is that these type of breads are stirred, not kneaded.
my book has information on all different kinds of flours, I'm just hoping it'll stop hiding from me so I can share them with you.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yup, utter lack of gluten. That's why it's a good bread for a lot of celiacs. Me, I'm not a celiac, but I'd still like to use grains other than just wheat, which, well, is limiting. We can get white flour and atta flour. Atta is a whole wheat flour, but it's a harder wheat with a much lower gluten content than North American wheat flours, so it won't rise as much and is better for flat breads. Anyway...
You know, I was thinking I haven't heard of poured breads before, but then I think about banana bread and zuchini bread, and those are poured, so I guess I have. Still, I'm looking forward to having my horizons expanded, sarcasticmuppet.
And I think I might have to see if Alton Brown has anything on his website. Thanks for the tip. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You live in the land of naan. I'd think they have some kind of clay tile surface for baking that on... Unless they just slap it in the side of a tandoori. What do they use for naan around there?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Do they eat idli in Sri Lanka? They are a wonderful steamed sour dough rice bread. They are quite easy to make and definitely no kneading required but you need an idli steamer and some sort of blender (unless you can get the pre ground idli rice).
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Frying pans, kq. No, seriously. But I am going to enlist my mother in law's help in getting a baking tile. She already thinks I'm kinda nuts, but she's also realized that some of my nuttiness pays off.
Rabbit, yes. It's mostly a South Indian thing, but since there are Tamils here, it is made & eaten here. I took a look at your wiki link, and yeah, idli steamers can be bought at the local department store - we can also get everything we need for string hoppers and other such things. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if there was some sort of prepared idli meal type of thing. We can get roasted rice flour, unroasted rice flour, steamed rice flour... Chickpea flour, mung bean flour, kurukkan flour, undulu flour (whatever that is), and a few other things I don't recognize.
Hmm. Now I'm going to have to investigate idli, of course, which was your intention all along... *squints*
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Well, here's what I've learned... The ulundu flour I mentioned above is also used in making idli. Ulundu is a black dal which is white when the outer casing is taken off. So, I guess that's another type of flour I'm going to have to try out one of these days.
I did round one of curing my clay pot in the oven (it started life as a water buffalo curd container) since I was also making Dwarf Bread Pudding.
The Dwarf Bread Pudding... Ah, but that's a longer story, and involves my first attempt at the no-knead recipe and letting the "bread" rise longer than I should have - 22 hours total. The air bubbles had exploded by the time I checked on it in the morning. So it was now very soupy and reminiscent of pancake dough. So I added more flour - like a couple of cups - and kneaded it, defeating the purpose of a no-knead recipe - and let it rise again, which it did. Then baked it and, voila! Dwarf bread. Hard as a rock and the best thing for long quests with a wizard, a swordsman, a prince in disguise, and an archer.
But the Dwarf Bread Pudding turned out great. Even Fahim, who named the Dwarf Bread, says so.
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