I am still keeping up with the pregnancy thread, but now that my little girl is here, completely new non-pregnancy-related issues come up, so I thought I would create a new thread for those of us who have graduated from the pregnancy thread (for now, at least!).
Daddies, of course, are welcome, too. I know that it isn't only the mommies taking care of the new little ones.
I have a fairly minor question to start--how can you tell if your baby has diaper rash? Her bottom is red, but there's no rash. I think it's just from the heat of the diaper--it doesn't look serious. I did see some very tiny skin abrasions, although abrasion isn't the right word--it's more like the top layer of clear skin is off and the spot of skin is red and slightly shiny. Could that be from the wipes causing irritation? I've gone through three brands, so far. I'm working through the ones I got from my shower and the hospital.
I don't have any other questions right now. It took a lot of work, but we have pretty much figured out nursing. I'm feeding her on demand, and I think it's turning into a schedule. I'll have to start writing it down to see. Sometimes she wants to eat NOW and starts crying shaking her head and eating her fists so that I can't get her to latch on. I try to explain to her how that's counter productive, but she doesn't listen. But we're managing. I even managed to not supplement with formula, which is what her first and FORMER pediatrician had recommended. I'll probably post on that later.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good for your for trusting yourself and deciding the pediatrician wasn't a good fit. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
About the former pediatrician...
When baby left the hospital, her jaundice was in the high range, so they wanted her to be checked out by a pediatrician in two days. I didn't have a pediatrician yet (I know, bad me), so I made an appointment at an office that was on my insurance and on the list from the hospital.
It didn't help that the office was difficult to get to because of its location, that it was in an old house and not very professional looking, and that I had to climb stairs to get to the exam room. (I found out later I could have asked for a downstairs room, which I should have done because of my internal stitches and the heavy carseat.) This alone wouldn't have been enough for me to change doctors, after all, my primary doctor has his practice in an old house as well--although it's all one floor.
I wasn't impressed that the doctor didn't have a bilirubin checker (or decided not to use it), and she sent me to the hospital for a blood test. The results came back at 16.1. The doctor was concerned and said that katababy was right below the level at which the doctor would admit her to the hospital for treatment (17). She wanted us to do a home light treatment which would be delivered to our house. This all happened very fast, and we weren't given a complete picture of what this would entail and what our other options would be. The doctor said we'd either be provided with a light to put the baby under or a special blanket to put her on. If I had known what this really meant, I would have insisted on the blanket or admittance to the hospital. If I had a better pediatrician, we could have skipped the very unpleasant experience that was to follow altogether.
You see, I told the pediatrician that my milk had just come in that morning and that katababy had not had any of it yet. We had woken up late that morning after a tiring night, and I didn't have any time to feed her before rushing to the pediatrician appointment in 20 minutes. I had wondered how I would know that my milk came in, and when it did--there was NO question. The supply was abundant, to put it mildly. The doctor did not take this into account when deciding to take drastic measures to treat katababy's jaundice. She wanted me to supplement with formula for just one day, and insisted that this would not cause any problems with continuing breastfeeding later, despite all of the reading I've done to the contrary. Finally, she compromised and said I could nurse her first and then immediately supplement with formula. I agreed, but when I got home, I decided to nurse as much as possible and only supplement if I ran out of milk. I never did.
The light box that was delivered was MUCH more troublesome. It looks kind of like a mini tanning bed, with blue and white lights in the lid. The light could damage a newborn's eyes, so there were two ways to protect her eyes--supposedly. There was a thin sheet of paper that attached to the bed with velcro tabs so that it hung down at baby's neck. There was also an eye shield that you could attach to baby's head. Both of these systems were wholly inadequate for a flailing and crying newborn. My baby often needs to be swaddled to sleep, especially when she was so newly born, and lying on a hard light box with only a diaper was deeply traumatic for her. She screamed and cried and flailed and we were spending all of our time covering her eyes when the safeties failed. We cut an ace bandage to supplement the eye guard which wouldn't stay put and didn't actually cover her eyes completely. That didn't work. We tried securing it with a hat. We tried standing there and holding the shield in place. There were a lot of tears and flailing and yelling, and not all of it was from Katababy. It was traumatic for all of us.
In desperation, I called the doctor around 10:30 to ask what to do since we couldn't keep her on the light and protect her eyes at the same time. Remember, I thought this was serious and I was afraid that this jaundice could cause brain damage if left untreated, since that is what the doctor had told me. The doctor said to just do our best, and didn't offer any other sort of reassurance or options. We wondered if she had ever tried to use one of these boxes herself. Also, we scoffed at the delivery guy who claimed that most babies will sleep on the light because it is so warm. And yes, we tried putting her to sleep first--it didn't matter. The minute she was on the box, she was crying and flailing her little arms and legs wildly.
I wanted to give up before my husband wanted to. I had done some reading on jaundice that evening and we were fairly convinced that the jaundice would go away on its own now that Katababy was getting some actual milk and lots of it. But it's hard to go against a doctor's orders--not that we had much choice, with Katababy's behavior on the light. My husband had never met the pediatrician but already hated her because of her failure to take my milk supply into account and the ludicrous idea that new parents with no medical training or experience could manage to perform a medical procedure on a newborn. (The light box even said it was only to be used under the supervision of a doctor.) It was hard enough to deal with typical newborn problems as rookies. We got about 30 minutes under the light with much struggling (and I pray no permanent damage to her eyes), and I held her in front of the lights against me so that her back and legs were exposed to the light for another 30. My back was killing me because of the position I was in, so I was unable to do anymore. It was also still difficult to shield her eyes.
We finally gave up and decided to call a new pediatrician early in the morning and beg for a same-day appointment. I called my work and got two recommendations for another pediatrician and was able to see him that afternoon. I still took the baby for another blood test, though, as ordered by the old pediatrician. That doctor called me with the results, and even though her jaundice level had gone down from the high risk category to the low, still wanted us to do a few more hours on the light box. She could not seem to understand how impossible it really was. It was awkward, but I "broke up" with her on the phone, and she was nice about it, and wanted me to make sure to have Katababy see a doctor that day or the next.
My new pediatrician was very helpful, and said that he wouldn't have prescribed the same treatment at her jaundice level, but said that some pediatricians are more cautious. He acknowledged the role my milk supply had caused and was confident that Katababy would continue to improve without any extra treatment.
Anyway, I know that some parents probably have no problems with the light box, but we were less than impressed. And to find out later that the biliBLANKET is a blanket with lights within it that you can wrap up the baby in and hold her and feed her throughout treatment, we were upset that we weren't offered THAT. Even if the insurance wouldn't pay for it initially, when we had such problems, the doctor should have offered the blanket as an alternative. And the formula thing was just ridiculous. Unless you have good reason to believe that my breastmilk CAUSED the jaundice (which is possible, I know) or that my supply is too low, formula is not necessary.
Anyway... that was my long-winded account of why I changed doctors and how my efforts to exclusively nurse Katababy were almost ruined by bad doctoral advice.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
We used the biliBlanket for Inkling for a couple days. He was like a low-rider with the neon lights under the chassis.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Good for you!
As for the red bottom, that does sound like mild diaper rash. You could try using a washcloth and warm water on her bottom instead of wipes for a few days if you have an abundance of baby wash-cloths. We're using cloth diapers and wipes, so we keep a thermos of warm water and an empty plastic box from disposable wipes at the changing station. Drop a cloth wipe in the box, pour a little warm water on it and you're good to go. And be sure to give her bottom time to air out before you put a diaper back on, at least some of the time. Or "fan" her dry with the diaper before you put it on.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Eucerin is wonderful for diaper rash, too. Make sure she's really dry after you clean her, maybe let her just go diaper-less for a while (give her tummy time laying on a cloth diaper for instance) then slather on a THICK layer of Eucerin before putting a diaper on. I prefer it to the diaper cream 'cause you can get it SO thick (well, plus Emma's allergic to zinc so we can't have diaper cream in our house.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You were just given a light box? No nurse or tech came to set it up and help you get started?
We had a nurse there for at least 30 minutes getting us set up. And she called beforehand to tell us what we'd need (towels to roll up as bolsters, etc.). She put on the velcro that held the little eye shield, and she (or another nurse) came once a day to draw blood and make sure everything was ok.
Just saying "here, use this" is horrible!
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: I try to explain to her how that's counter productive, but she doesn't listen. But we're managing.
Babies have a bad habit of not listening. Every time Toshi got too tired and started screaming we tried to tell him that sleep was the antidote to being tired. He never seemed to listen.
He would also get so hungry he would cry instead of eat. Again, we tried to tell him to just eat but he never listened.
Sometimes I think babies are not all there.
quote: The light box that was delivered was MUCH more troublesome. It looks kind of like a mini tanning bed, with blue and white lights in the lid.
We used that for Toshi. We actually picked it up from the place on the way home from the hospital and set it up ourselves. It was very sad holding his little hand as he cried and sounded so frightened for the first few days. We never had a problem with the eye patches. He was only ever nursed.
I wish we would have known about the blanket.
Our first kid was hard. Our second is really easy. I think kids pick up on the anxiety of their parents and everything freaks you out with your first kid.
I know I was in a constant state of hyper alertness because I was scared Toshi would either break or die. We were always on edge. By the time we had Sachi, we became much more mellow parents who could asses real risks better and let her just be. Toshi was high strung. Sachi is uber mellow.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by lem: I wish we would have known about the blanket.
It's not nearly as effective, and so some doctors don't like to suggest it.
quote:Originally posted by lem: Toshi was high strung. Sachi is uber mellow.
Which could just be their inborn temperaments.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Great idea for a thread! I don't have any questions at the moment, but I'm sure I'll use it in the future. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I HATE biliblankets. The name is very misleading. They're NOT soft blankets that glow - they're hard, plastic mats. You can't wrap the baby up in them at all and they are extremely uncomfortable. Aerin was under a bililight and on a biliblanket (sometimes at the same time) because her jaundice was severe and took a long time to shake. The biliblanket had almost no effect on her bilirubin levels and it kept her from getting any good sleep. I don't know what kind of box they gave you, Katarain, but Aerin was just in her isolette with a big lamp over it. I can't imagine why they didn't just give you a lamp. Also, they should have given you shades (the nurses drew on the eyelashes). If they can makes shades for micropreemies, they should be able to make them for term babies.
Plain old Vaseline keeps Aerin from ever getting diaper rashes. I also an A&D/Vaseline combo on her face to prevent chapping in winter. She inherited my sensitive skin and that's the only thing that works.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
The description I read of biliblankets online said that you could wrap up the baby and feed and care for her as normal. That is misleading.
The biggest problem I think was the fact that Katababy's jaundice was not all that severe, and considering I hadn't started nursing her with REAL milk yet, it would most likely be self-correcting, as it was. I think the pediatrician should have considered that.
There was a delivery guy who showed my husband how to use the light box. He didn't come in the house (we didn't want him to). If I had known or thought of putting a blanket UNDER Katababy, the experience probably would have worked much better. I see that Aerin was laying on blankets that probably kept her in position better than laying on a hard plastic surface would have done.
As it was, there was no mention of using blankets or towels in the bed of the box.
I think I'm a pretty laidback first time parent, in general. Katababy is calm and seems to only cry when she has a reason.. hungry, sleepy, gassy, diaper needs changing.. so far, anyway.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Oh, and those are similar to the shades that we got, but without the bottom layer. With just the purple shade (ours wasn't purple, as if it matters), there is a big gap underneath that lets light in. If we had two layers, that probably would have worked.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It sounds like changing pediatricians was the best thing you could have done. (Especially if your first one wanted you to use formula instead of nursing just as your milk was starting to come in.)
John had jaundice and our doctor reccommended nursing as much as possible and putting him naked in a sunny window several times a day. Worked great. It also helped that I'd read a lot about the difference between normal newborn jaundice and the dangerous kind. So we were pretty relaxed about the whole thing, while keeping an eye out for the warning signs the doctor gave us.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Just got my maya wrap in the mail. It's in the washer. Can't wait to use it!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My kids always freak the doctors out because they look SO jaundiced. Really, they're just born very, very pale. When their levels are taken they are low-- Emma's was 8 on day 2, 5.5 on day 3, Bridey's was 10 on day 2, 7.9 on day 3, 6 on day 4, but they just LOOK really bad. Silly doctors. I try to explain but they never really listen to me.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Well, I am washing my maya wrap a second time because I was watching the DVD and near the end it says not to use fabric softener. That sort of information should be on the care label. I hope it will wash out well enough.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Sometimes not using fabric softener has to do with not damaging the fire retardant properties of the fabric. (I really wonder how much of a difference that makes if your kid is exposed to flame!)
I feel for you re: the light box experience. Had some tough times with our 2nd where he would have to be held down or strapped in for various procedures. It breaks your heart. However, I think it's not as bad for the kid as we tend to think. It's certainly not fun for them! but if they aren't being injured or otherwise subjected to a lot of pain, they aren't being harmed, esp. if they get a lot of cuddling and soft cooing the rest of the time. If you had to do more light box treatment then I would just advise you to hold the baby still, using firm pressure. (Once you've observed the amount of force a doctor or nurse will use to hold your infant still it kind of puts it in perspective.)
Triple Paste and Bag Balm work wonders on problem diaper rash, in my experience. ALWAYS dry the skin thoroughly before applying an ointment - otherwise it's probably counter productive. Baby powder works really well for some people to speed the drying and provide an extra layer of protection...just don't overdo it.
Congrats on the new baby Katarain.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Baby powder: use cornstarch, NOT talc. Talc is a lung irritant, and there just isn't that far from a baby's face to their diaper area to ensure no talc gets inhaled. Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
I'm getting quite irritated with my family doctor. Normally, I love her, but this is getting on my nerves.
Moose is doing wonderfully. He's meeting all his milestones, he's alert when he's awake, his color is good, he's growing in length and head circumference at an appropriate rate, he's wetting and dirtying an appropriate amount of diapers, and he nurses for a respectable amount of time at least 10 times (usually 15 or more) every 24 hours.
But, according to her, he's not gaining enough weight. I've been to her office (a 20 minute drive, plus getting self, baby, and 3 more kids dressed and out the door) once a week for the last month, with no end in sight.
To be fair, he's not gaining as much weight as most formula-fed babies do, and he's not gaining the "ounce a day" she'd like to see. But he IS gaining weight, just more slowly.
She's been telling me for three weeks in a row now to supplement with formula. I'm very, very unhappy about this. I don't believe his "slow weight gain" is anywhere near the realm of FTT, and he's not dehydrated at all, but she's making it sound like I'm starving his brain or something, and he's going to start looking really ill any second now.
I find this especially disturbing when she tells me that he looks "otherwise perfect" and even her nurse said he looked bigger yesterday than he did a week ago.
It's true that his arms and legs are skinny, but his fingers and toes have plumped up nicely and he's very strong. He can even push up to look around when he's on his tummy and stay that way for a couple of minutes at a time.
I think he's just a slow grower like Boo was at first, with a fast metabolism. I think he's great.
(Yes, I know I left out all the numbers.)
Question: when calculating weight gain, are you supposed to count from birth weight or lowest recorded weight?
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I've heard eating a lot of protein can make the milk a bit higher-gravity. But I should ask my wife, she's the expert.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boon: Question: when calculating weight gain, are you supposed to count from birth weight or lowest recorded weight?
Birth weight.
I would talk to a lactation consultant. Some pediatricians are more knowledgeable and supportive of nursing than others. This one clearly isn't.
As I've told you, Bridey did the same thing. She just burned all those calories real fast.
Now she's not-quite-23 months, she's almost as tall and almost as heavy as Ems-- and she STILL has skinny arms and legs. Nothing wrong with that!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boon: ...and he nurses for a respectable amount of time at least 10 times (usually 15 or more) every 24 hours.
I'm way impressed by this! James only nurses 7-8 times every 24 hours, and he barely nurses for a respectable amount of time (and sometimes doesn't). Well, how long is respectable? He goes about 8-10 minutes. I'm guessing it's not all that respectable.
He's growing though, so I'm not that worried. We'll see what the doctor says about it at his 2-month appointment in a couple weeks.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
He eats slowly, he's usually actively suckling about half the time he's on, and nurses for 20-30 minutes at a time. Sometimes he "power sucks" and gets through a feeding in ten minutes, but not often. (Baby Hoover )
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Monster ate 6 times a day for maximum 5 minutes a side (I switched her after 2 minutes to keep engorgement down).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Babies have very different feeding styles. My first was a "gourmet" and took 20-40 minutes to complete a feeding. My second was an "all-business" and was usually done in 15 (sometimes less). My third was sort of in-between. The usual indications are number of wet and dirty diapers per day, and whether they're gaining steadily.
Nursing very often is actually more likely to be a problem sign that a baby isn't getting enough, although it can just mean they like to nurse. But nursing fewer times per day -- if the baby is growing, pooping, and peeing -- is just a bonus. Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
That brings up a question, actually. James has no trouble making lots of wet diapers, but he's only been pooping 1-2 times a day lately, if that. Is that likely to be a problem?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's well within the norm once a baby is over 6 weeks, which yours is.
I'm a new mother, though my baby isn't a newborn. I have the same thing going on that some of you have described, that I worry a lot, and I'm afraid he's going to break, or I'm going to do something wrong. I want our home to be relaxed and fun, but you can't just make that happen by wanting it. Does anyone have any articles for me to read? I really should educate myself more about parenting.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I really haven't been following too closely, I guess, or maybe it's that I tend to stay away from the pregnancy thread. I had no idea that you were expecting. How old is your baby, Tatiana?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Tatiana recently adopted a teenager, and I hope that's been going well.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I guess that's what confused me, since this is the "mommies with new babies thread". My 17 year old would be mortified if I posted a question about his butt.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
But, to be fair, a 17 year old will be mortified by anything his mother does.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good thing newborns are more accommodating.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Tante, in no way, either literal or metaphorical, did I refer to my baby's butt. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Tatiana, why don't you start a "parenting teenagers" thread? The issues really aren't the same as with newborns. The difference in attention that needs to be paid to butts is a perfect example.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Kat - I'm so sorry you had such unpleasantness with the first pediatrician and jaundice, etc. When we were released from the hospital, the pediatrician that had seen her (the pediatrician I had picked out doesn't have hospital privileges there) had said Beanie was "mildly jaundiced" and suggested placing her in the sunshine a little each day once we got home (the window in our room faced another building so it was shaded all day long or I'd have done it before we were released). Three days later, when we saw her pediatrician and I asked him if she appeared less jaundiced, he laughed and said "she looks perfect". It's actually kind of neat - Beanie's pediatrician was my (and my brother's) pediatrician from the time I was about 6 (he was just starting his practice). We loved him, my parents loved him, and I've heard lots of other good reviews about him. Our first appointment, when he came in the room he immediately asked me who my mother was, and when I told him her name, he asked how she (and my brother were) - I'm amazed he remembered us. So far, we've been very happy with him, which is good since I have to drive about 30 miles to get to his office.
It's always fun to try to explain that chewing on fists get in the way of eating and that crying from tiredness prevents sleeping. I'm very excited that I finished making my ring sling for Beanie over the weekend! This will make going to the store and evening witching hour so much easier!
I have a question about teething. A couple weeks ago (at only 11 weeks), Beanie appeared to be starting to teeth (lots of drooling and chewing, difficulty sleeping, lots of fussiness from a non-fussy baby). I could see the tell-tale small white spots on her lower gums. After about a week and a half, during which she was also doing a growth spurt (boy was that fun - feeding her every hour at night on top of everything else), she seemed to settle down but without the tooth popping through. I can now see a white line under the gums. Do babies teeth sometimes start moving and then stop before surfacing?
Bridget was born with a corner of a tooth poking out-- actually exposed-- and it stayed just like that for about 3 months. Then it came almost to the surface the rest of the way, along with 3 other teeth, and stayed like THAT for another 2 weeks.
Baby teeth are weird. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Oh yes. John's lower laterals took months to finally break through from when we thought they'd started and the teething symptoms were on and off.
At 18 months he's finally got all of 'em except his 2 year molars and we're hoping for a bit of a break before those come in. Although I guess I wouldn't mind if they came a little early and we just got it all over with.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Heh, yeah I know my baby teeth were weird. They came in very late, but they refused to surrender their place in my mouth (the last few were extracted when I was 15 because they were interfering with the positioning of my permanent teeth). Now to just wait for her strange teeth to strike again! Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Good idea for a thread, Katarain! And good for you for switching pediatricians. It can be so hard to not follow a doctor's advice--case in point, when Nathaniel (6.5 weeks premature) was discharged we were instructed to give him two feedings a day of high-calorie formula (in addition to a vitamin, so we didn't need formula for the nutrients he missed out on on those last few weeks of gestation). I was careful to pump to keep up my supply, but what a huge pain it was. Plus the formula upset his tummy. Nathaniel was a good gainer all along, and ever since he's been off the formula (since his 2 month appointment) he's been gaining at approximately the same rate. I wish I'd asked if we could try exclusively nursing first, then supplement with formula if it looked like he needed the extra calories.
Actually, the pediatrician never said we could stop using the formula--she just suggested that instead of giving 3 oz of formula and then nursing if he wanted more, I should nurse first, then offer formula. Well, my supply has never been a problem, so when I'd offer the formula after nursing, he wouldn't take a single drop. I think it took me 2 days to stop offering.
Oh, and about the bililight--I think it all does depend on the baby. Nathaniel seemed to like being a little rotisserie chicken of a baby. Could be because he was a preemie, though, and didn't do much except for sleep for the first few weeks.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Nathaniel seemed to like being a little rotisserie chicken of a baby. Could be because he was a preemie, though, and didn't do much except for sleep for the first few weeks.
Mine did too, and she was only a week early. She did spend the first couple weeks sleeping, though.
The only one who was traumatized by seeing my baby like a little naked chicken in an oven was me. She was perfectly comfortable.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: . . . It can be so hard to not follow a doctor's advice . . .
Agreed.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
((Boon))
Kellymom has a great smilie--a smilie covering her ears and going "lalalalalalalalala."
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I wish I had a friend who used a maya wrap or another ring sling. I've tried putting the baby in it once, but it didn't go well. I am having trouble adjusting it. It was too tight around her and she just cried. The tail doesn't stay straight through the loops--the ends get turned under the middle.
I am not going to give up, since it's very important to me to be able to use the sling to carry the baby. I think she'll end up loving it if I can get it figured out, since she loves being carried and swaddled. (Although she kicks out of the swaddling eventually--every time.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The ends get turned under the middle? Huh? Can you explain in different words?
Have you watched the videos? Tried a different carry? I HATE the cradle carry but love a kangaroo carry with newborns.
One thing I did that helped was get a large teddy bear (or doll or whatever) and practice with that, first. When you're not dealing with a screaming, crying newborn, it's easier to figure out exactly what you're doing.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
The rails, or the sides of the fabric, aren't staying on either side of where the fabric is threaded through the rings. Maybe if I gather the tail at more than just the end before I thread it through the rings. The fabric isn't getting twisted, really, just it's hard to pull on either rail and not get the middle, too.
I was trying the cradle carry, but maybe she'd like the kangaroo. I carry her like that more often with my arms.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Eleven thirty to 6:38 AM.
I know you'll figure it out, Katarain. I'm just about to buy a sling of my own--I held off because I was worried about figuring out. But both the Snuggli I got as a gift and the Baby Bjorn someone loaned me hurt my back when I wear them longer than about 15 min.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Ooh, I thought of another question!
When is a good time to introduce a bottle? There have been several moments when I've really wanted to start pumping because I'm full and uncomfortable and Katababy refuses to wake up to feed. (When she's conked out, she's really conked out.) I haven't pumped yet, though, because so far, I seem to have the right amount of supply for her. I'm afraid that if I pump she'll be left hungry and I'll have to give her a bottle of the expressed milk. But I don't want to cause nipple confusion.
Eventually I'll want her to take a bottle or the breast so that her daddy can feed her when I can't be right there or if I'm at work.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
That's a nice long sleep, Liz. Congrats. How old is your baby?
I haven't been keeping track of how long she sleeps. My hubby and I keep odd hours when we're both not working. You never know if we're going to be up and about at 3AM or 3PM, so it doesn't really faze me if I'm up for a 2PM feeding. She does have some nice long stretches of sleep, though. She seems to sleep best when she's lying right next to one of us.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Go ahead and pump if you're feeling full, and stick it in the freezer to start building up a reserve. You're making milk all the time, so there will be milk for her when she wakes up. And it will help you when you are at the point of going back to work if you already have some stockpiled.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Eleven thirty to 6:38 AM.
Yay!
Kata, unless you are pumping shortly before feeding (which is not a good idea), your body will have NO problem producing enough milk. However, pumping to relieve discomfort can become a cycle, so unless you are trying to build up a stock of bottles in the freezer (which is a good idea, if you'll be working), be careful of that.
You can pump long before you're ready to give her a bottle -- breast milk keeps in the freezer for three months. I liked to use the plastic drop-in bags from the bottles as freezer containers. Once frozen, just twist-tie shut (and label with the date).
As far as a "best time to introduce a bottle," I've heard a whole gamut of opinions. IME, as long as nursing is well established, it doesn't matter much. My pediatrician liked 4-6 weeks; yours may have a different suggestion.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
He's 15 weeks actual age, 9 weeks corrected.
Let's see. Just going from memory, I think 6 weeks is recommended for introducing a bottle, as long as your breastfeeding relationship is well established by then.
All babies are different, but just so you know--Nathaniel had very little problem moving from bottle to breast as a newborn, but very recently we skipped a few days of giving him a bottle and when we went back to it he rejected it. Firmly. We've mostly fixed the problem by offering it twice a day (and not making a big deal of it if he doesn't want it--I just go ahead and nurse). It's not that important that he takes it...I won't be going back to work until he's 8.5 months old, and by then I hope he'll be able to drink from a cup...but it sure has been nice to be able to go out without him for more than an hour or so.
And just to clarify--I am NOT recommending starting a bottle/ pacifier early just because my son didn't really have a problem as a newborn. I don't think it's worth the risk of jeopardizing the breastfeeding relationship.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
I know exactly what you mean about the ring sling problem, Katarain. Here's how I fixed it:
Instead of bunching up the end to thread it, start with just the corner of the top rail and the corner of the bottom rail. Once they're through both rings, pull them at the same time away from each other to draw in the center fabric. This should help keep them straight and on the ends, and help eliminate some of the extra bunching I got in the center that made it slip loose a bit.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I found that folding it very neatly all the way down, threading it through, putting it on, and THEN spreading it worked for me. The folding "very neatly" part was essential.
Personally, Emma took a bottle at 2 months and refused it at 3; she did take a sippy cup at 4.5 months. Bridey never took any kind of bottle, ever, ever, ever, or cup, until she was a year old. Period. She loved pacis until 7 months then ditched them, but she would not take a bottle. She did sip water out of a regular glass at 6 months if you held it for her. So I didn't get to leave that one for more than an hour until she was 6 months and my mom would feed her a few sips of water and solid foods with extra water mixed in, I would nurse her right before we left and as soon as we got back. She could go three or four hours that way at that point. I think with the next one I'm not going to give a bottle at all, I'm just going to wait 3 or 4 months and then introduce a sippy cup.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
Katarain - I am so glad you switched pediatricians so quickly. You are a much smarter woman than I.
I went to the Idiot, as I like to call him, at the recommendation of my neighbor (with four kids, I figured she would know). At the first appointment he said, "Did you know your son's nose is flat because he is African American." Really, my son is African American, and his nose is flatter than mine, hmmm, I hadn't noticed. Then we had the following conversation.
"Would you like to have your son circumcised?" "He is already circumcised." (his birthmom had him snipped.) "African Americans don't circumcise their sons, do you want him circumcised?" He says with authority. "He is already circumcised." "It is a cultural thing, do you want him circumcised?" he asks, ignoring me. "Well, lets check him out, can you take off his diaper? Hmmm, he is already circumcised." He says.
Aaarggg.
Stupidly, I took my son back to see him. At this point my son's body was completely covered by a horrible rash. The nurse weighed my son and I left off the sleeper so the doctor could see the extent of the rash. The doctor walks in the room.
"Put on his clothes, it is cold in here!" "I just want you to look at his skin" "It's cold in here, you should not let him get this cold" "Please, just look at his skin, he has a horrible rash." "Put his clothes on then we can talk." I put the sleeper back on. The doctor then tells me, "Your son does not have a rash, he just has very dry skin. African Americans tend to have dry skin." "I know about African American skin because I had many foster siblings who were African American. This is not dry skin!" "It is dry skin, you are just panicing."
Me, in a lame attempt to take control of the situation. "Baby lotion does not work and seems to make things worse, so I have been using Eucerin and even that does not help."
He looks at me knowingly, "Well, that is your problem, Eucerin is for adults, keep using the baby lotion, it will help."
At this point I gave up, and after the appointment found another doctor. The next doctor walked in the room, took one look at my baby and said, "Wow, that is a really bad case of Eczema." He then gave us helpful tips and a prescription, and special formula for children with allergies.
I think my son was the first black person the Idiot had ever seen.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I hope you went to some of those "review the doctor" sites and told this story there.
Posted by School4ever (Member # 5575) on :
To be honest, until you said there were such just now, I did not know there were review the doctor sites.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, yes. Several. Might be worth doing.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
It sounds like the sobriquet is apt.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Tatiana, why don't you start a "parenting teenagers" thread? The issues really aren't the same as with newborns. The difference in attention that needs to be paid to butts is a perfect example.
Because from reading this thread, it seemed like many of the issues were the same.
He has trouble sleeping through the night, for instance. We have difficulties with doctors similar to those described above. He's sick and cranky sometimes. I get tired and I'm not always as patient as I'd like to be.
[ March 27, 2008, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Have you tried burping him? Or maybe he just needs a diaper change. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Please, oh please, if you decide to nurse, don't share that information.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Oooh, ooh! Tatiana's trying to equate her current situation with a teenager to parents with newborn children. The stretching and skewing inherent in the discussion should bring everyone out of the woodwork.
I think I need some popcorn.
Anyone want to start a "Tatiana leaves, like forver and stuff" again pool? I'm putting short odds on "Someone comes in with a reasonable, well thought-out post about how the situation is not even remotely the same and Tatiana refuses to listen to reason and leaves in a huff." Long odds on "Tatiana actually leaves forever this time."
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*frowns* I'm not sure that's helpful.
Clearly babies and 17-year-olds are not the same. That's been said, though. There's no need to try and goad someone into leaving.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Wow, the support and friendliness here is awesome! Primal Curve, do you have a new baby too?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
I'm not goading into leaving--just cracking wise.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Gyah! Not to turn into the police, but Tatiana, do you get that you that a near-adult is not the same as a baby? You don't have an infant, and equating the two makes it seem like you're either slow or passive-aggressively hostile to the people in this thread.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Tatiana, it might be a good idea to consider Dana's suggestion of a different thread for the difficulties of teenagers.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Or that she simply has no idea what having an actual newborn is like.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Wow, as a new mother I really do think the issues are very much the same. I had no idea that observation would generate any hostility or opposition. I'm puzzled. Is there some reason this thread is damaged or compromised by me asking questions about motherhood?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
My youngest is 8 months old. Even I would find it amiss to post in this thread about the problems I'm having. The world's of difference between a newborn and an 8 month old could fill volumes. The problems I'm having right now are regarding teething, learning to crawl, introducing new foods & sleeping through the night on his own. These issues are light years away for people with newborns.
Seriously, my sister, when she had her baby a couple of months ago, couldn't believe how big my son looked. Right now, they're like night and day in what they can do.
Now, if the gulf is so great between babies that are 6 months apart, think about the gulf between your "son" and a newborn. You're really wrong on this one and don't have a leg to stand on.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes. It is.
The issues with a newborn and the issues with a near-adult are not handled in the same manner.
Once again, start a thread for parenting teenagers to discuss what to do when a 17-year-old can't sleep. Nursing him and changing his diaper are inappropriate.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I'm puzzled. Is there some reason this thread is damaged or compromised by me asking questions about motherhood?
i don't particularly care about thread drift. I doubt most of the people here do either. It is the attitude inherent in "Wow, as a new mother I really do think the issues are very much the same" that has tripped warning flags for several people.
Your issues are not very much the same. They are very, very different. Not only do parents of newborns face issues that can't possibly come up in your situation, you face issues that can't possibly come up for the parents of newborns. There's quite simply very little overlap. Even in the areas where there is overlap (worries about adequacy, for example), the actual concrete solutions are likely to have almost nothing in common.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Wow, as a new mother I really do think the issues are very much the same.
If this is actually true, you have no business being a new mother.
A teenager and a newborn baby are incredibly different things. If you don't understand how this is true, you are not fit to act as a parent to either. Treating one like the other will lead to disasterous consequences. For example airing a teenagers issues without getting their okay is a gross violation of a teenagers privacy.
quote: I had no idea that observation would generate any hostility or opposition.
You're lying.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Okay, let me get this straight. It's wrong for me to post a question about a somewhat different but closely related subject in a thread? We don't do that on Hatrack? We stick strictly to the topic the original poster introduced, or face hostility and sarcastic put-downs? I didn't realize this.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Good grief, Mr. Squicky! You know what I was expecting better than me? You feel qualified to say I was lying about my own thoughts and to judge my fitness as a mother? That's crazy!
Actually I truly thought that I would find some friendship and help here. I seriously did. And I was offering mine as well.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
In the general case, no. In this specific case, you are very clearly in the wrong.
edit (kat was only agreeing with the top part): Several people have been very nice and restrained in pointing out what you should do, if you were actualy looking for help/discussion.
I'm with PC. Let's just hurry up the point where people's unwillingness to accept your delusions gets you to storm off.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It kills me to agree with Squicky, but you are wrong to pursue this line of conversation in this thread, Tatiana.
Start another thread. This one is inappropriate.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Okay, let me get this straight. It's wrong for me to post a question about a somewhat different but closely related subject in a thread? We don't do that on Hatrack? We stick strictly to the topic the original poster introduced, or face hostility and sarcastic put-downs? I didn't realize this.
No. It is your assertion that the issues are very much the same that is provoking most of the reaction.
You faced slight sarcasm from Jon Boy and Kate. Within those posts was information that would have made it clear what the issue is here. Maybe not the most productive way to clue you into something, but there was meaningful information you could have extracted from it. Both made the point succinctly and powerfully.
You also faced some other hostile posts that didn't provide such useful information and were likely out of bounds. Each of those posts was based on more than just your posts in this thread.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Actually I truly thought that I would find some friendship and help here. I seriously did. And I was offering mine as well.
What is inappropriate about that?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Remember how well it went for you last time you brought up your "adoption" of this guy? The reaction you're getting now is almost certainly influenced by what was said then.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You have been told what is inappropriate. Are you being slow or are you being passive-aggressive?
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
You mean I'm slow to see that there are a few people who are trying to make it clear that I'm unwelcome here? It's not that I don't see that. It's that I know they aren't hatrack. I've seen hatrack evolve over 12 years. It's bigger than that.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Anne Kate, equating the needs of a 17-year-old boy with those of a newborn baby is wrong. It means that either you don't understand the needs of either or else you think the whole thread is a big play-acting venues with everyone talking about their imaginary children. The first makes conversation impossible and the second is insulting.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Katie, so only things that are exactly equal are allowed to share the same threads? That's where I'm confused.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
You are not unwelcome here if you want to talk about babies. A 19 year old is NOT a baby. It doesn't matter how new he is to you, he is not a baby, and his issues are very different from a baby's issues. The fact that both of them involve sleep does not make them the same issue.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
So this thread is only about babies. Not about motherhood? And any stretching of the topic as stated in the title post is strictly forbidden?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
More passive-aggressiveness? It's been explained to you many, many times why equating a near-adult and a baby is inappropriate.
Try a different thread.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
An honest question. We've never limited topics to be only about what's mentioned in the original post. That's not hatrack's style at all. I have to think the slight stretching of the topic to new-motherhood in general, even of non-infants, is not what the problem is here at all.
I'm not equating a teenager and an infant. I was asking questions about motherhood. I think I dropped those, though.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes! Exactly! There are many reasons the posts are inappropriate. You are choosing to ignore the reasons that were told to you.
The suggestion to try a different thread is a polite way to set aside the amazing creepiness of equating a newborn's needs with a near-adult's.
It seems to be that you posting in this thread is a passive-aggressive way of seeking validation in your role as a mother. If that's your goal, I suggest being much more direct in your pursuit of that approval and accepting that you might not get it.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I'm not equating a teenager and an infant.
But you absolutely equated the issues associated with caring for the two.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Katie, I'm not equating newborns and adults. Whatever amazing creepiness is going on is not located here, and I don't see it at all still.
The topic of new-motherhood is entirely appropriate and apt to the situation.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Tatiana, I have a negative reaction to you posting as if you are a new mommy to a new baby.
By my definition, you are not, and he isn't. I'm not denigrating the idea that you CARE for him-- I allow that you do. But he's not a baby. He's a teenager. He's almost an adult. And you're not a mommy, Tatiana, not by my definition. You can be motherly, or even a Mom, or a mother-- but a 'mommy,' in my opinion, is the mother to a very young, dependent child.
Your point about thread drift is a good one, IMO; we shouldn't care about thread drift. That's what we keep telling n00bs.
You've got a history here on this subject, Tatiana. Many people have expressed reservations about your relationship with this boy. Those reservations are going to keep surfacing every time you bring up the subject. Especially if you insist that there's no difference between what biological parents, or long-term guardians, do and what you've done with "Sasha."
I don't mean to discourage you from posting about this kid's difficulties. Apparently, he needs lots of assistance, and if you're helping, more power to you. I hope this community can help you help him. That said, your insistence that he's a baby, and you're his mommy is really problematic for me, to the point that I doubt your trustworthiness on this topic.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Okay then, an honest answer.
I think that, rather than needing information about how to take care of things like breastfeeding and diaper rash (see most of the rest of the thread) you were using this thread to get acknowledgment that you, too, are a new mommy. Because of the situation, that is problematic. You seem to want the community to equate situations that are not equal.
Does that make sense?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You did equate the needs of the two as the same. You might as well have chimed in about the needs of your favorite doll.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:You might as well have chimed in about the needs of your favorite doll.
I think that goes a bit too far.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Actually, Tatiana even all other issues aside (and I would note that I haven't participated in the various adoption kerfluffles so hopefully I have some credibility here as an observer who genuinely likes all the personalities involved in this thread so far), I'd still have a problem with the stretching of the topic especially in the way you did it. Asking for good articles on the subject of parenting in this thread is a bit like meeting sushi-loving friends for dinner at a sushi bar and saying that the sushis looks okay, but that you've become really interested in gourmet food and can they take the time to run down some good resources for learning how to cook gourmet dinners. Productive participation in threads is all about give and take and having an understanding of the participants, the topic and the discourse markers (tone) that is driving the thread.
Not all topics have the same emotional valence and new motherhood -- the care of infants -- is one that is particularly loaded and intensely focused. And rightfully so. As has already been noted, infants are very different from other children in terms of their needs, fragility, relationship to the medical establishment, etc.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
I just want to use this TOPP to give mad props to the Moms who've stuck to breastfeeding when it was hard for them. Sometimes it's easy to give up and just use formula. Sticking to it is really great and stuff.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
I've got to go to a meeting. Be back next time I get computer time. Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
But those who aren't able to stick to it shouldn't feel bad either. Sometimes it just doesn't work even though it can be heartbreaking for the mother when it doesn't.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
No, you don't understand. You're using the fact of one set of disagreements (the adoption kerfluffles) to ignore a different set of disagreements.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
quote:You might as well have chimed in about the needs of your favorite doll.
I think that goes a bit too far.
Given Tatiana's refusal to acknowledge the potential problems with her relationship, I'm not at all sure that it does.
But it's been well hashed here and that hasn't worked yet.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Certainly. Though, I don't want to get into that topic too much as it can bring the LLL folks out of the woodwork.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: Given Tatiana's refusal to acknowledge the potential problems with her relationship, I'm not at all sure that it does.
But it's been well hashed here and that hasn't worked yet.
Unless I'm missing somewhere along the line that Sasha is not a real person, I don't think so. Whatever my opinion of Tatiana's reasons for adopting Sasha, I assume it's a fact that she apparently did adopt him.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: Whatever amazing creepiness is going on is not located here, and I don't see it at all still.
Hmm... Sorry, but I felt creepy reading your posts. Looking around it seems I am not the only one.
Edit: That is just my feedback which I am sure will be summarily dismissed.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: But, to be fair, a 17 year old will be mortified by anything his mother does.
Point, I wonder how mortified they would be if they found this thread in particular and the comparison between him and a baby.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
Why are y'all trying to persuade her on this issue? This quote, and others in this thread, highlights that getting Tatiana to budge even an inch is impossible.
It's not just that she's right despite reasonable concerns, she is so obviously right. You might as well try and convince KoM that religion rocks, Pix that big government is a good thing, or me that Superman is better than Batman. It's just not going to happen. She's either listened to everything that's been said about this and not budged, or (more likely IMO) ignored it.
Return the favor, folks!
Consider this my contribution to the effort to get her to storm out of these types of conversations in a huff, because that's simply what's going to happen here, and since it's a given, the sooner the better.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Quit piling on Tatiana!!
Her initial question in this thread may have been a diversion from the original topic but absolutely nothing that has been said in this thread warrants the out poring of vitriol against her thats happening.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Quit piling on Tatiana!!
Sorry Rabbit, but it's just creepy as hell given the context to refer to a grown man as a child who is 'sick and cranky'. It's creepy as hell to equate the issues of mothering a newborn and 'mothering' this guy.
It's also extremely difficult to believe Tatiana did not realize the reactions she was soliciting when she posted about those things.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Sorry Rabbit, but it's just creepy as hell given the context to refer to a grown man as a child who is 'sick and cranky'.
Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant. Based on that experience, there I think everyone here is over reacting and rudely mistreating Tatiana.
This is so obviously a carry over from the two scathing threads we had here denouncing he adoption of this young man. Denying it simply intellectually dishonest. People post things more off topic and far "creepier" than this in threads everyday without having half of hatrack's active members pile on them.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Based on that experience, there I think everyone here is over reacting and rudely mistreating Tatiana.
Everyone?
quote:Denying it simply intellectually dishonest.
Not as dishonest as your attempt to group and dismiss the opinion of many intelligent people who happen to disagree with you.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Awww...can we go back to talking about breast feeding and diaper rash? I'm expecting in about 8 weeks and wouldn't mind a thread to trade ideas on when the time comes. I somehow managed my first (now 2) but watch everything be completely different the second time!
Anyone cloth diapering? I started on my 2-year-old 2 months ago and am thinking of going ahead and doing it with my new one this May.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:People post things more off topic and far "creepier" than this in threads everyday without having half of hatrack's active members pile on them.
They don't often come back in and press the issue after the thread has moved on, though.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: This is so obviously a carry over from the two scathing threads we had here denouncing he adoption of this young man. Denying it simply intellectually dishonest.
Well, yeah, but if you don't like someone and disapprove of the way they conduct themselves, it's in no way wrong to let that color your other personal interactions with that person.
Posted by The Genuine (Member # 11446) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Tatiana, why don't you start a "parenting teenagers" thread? The issues really aren't the same as with newborns. The difference in attention that needs to be paid to butts is a perfect example.
We need a thread about teenagers' butts.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Dag, You are right, everyone was hyperbole.
As for the second part, I don't see that I dismissed anyones opinion solely because they disagree with me. Please point to where I have?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Awww...can we go back to talking about breast feeding and diaper rash? I'm expecting in about 8 weeks and wouldn't mind a thread to trade ideas on when the time comes. I somehow managed my first (now 2) but watch everything be completely different the second time!
Anyone cloth diapering? I started on my 2-year-old 2 months ago and am thinking of going ahead and doing it with my new one this May.
I know Boon does and I think dkw does. I've tried it but it's just not feasible in my situation right now. I sent about 1/3 of my stash to Boon.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We cloth diaper. John's been exclusively in cloth since he got home from the hospital, and Thing 2 will be as well.
We're really happy that since we already have everything we'll be spending no money on diapering Thing 2. Except maybe if we need cream, but we've only gone through 2 tubes of it in 18 months with John, so that's not a major expense.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:As for the second part, I don't see that I dismissed anyones opinion solely because they disagree with me. Please point to where I have?
I didn't say you did it solely because they disagree with you. The "disagree with you" was the identifying characteristic of the group being dismissed, not the cause of the dismissal. I'm not sure why you dismissed them.
But saying that the posts to which you object are carryover, rather than addressing any of the points actually made, is dismissal.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I'd just like to say that people who cloth diaper and use a service can't really recommend it to people who wouldn't use a service, either do to expense or because the feel having diapers trucked around somewhat defeats the environmental considerations.
But if your baby's butt can't tolerated whatever it is they put in disposables, I guess that's a different matter.
I'm also looking back and thinking about the fact that my oldest couldn't use a sling or a bouncy seat and wondering if that was related to the failure of the cloth diapers.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote: there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
Have you ever cared for infants for an extended period of time, Rabbit?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote: there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
Have you ever cared for infants for an extended period of time, Rabbit?
Yes.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
That's getting a bit personal, there, Scott.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
There isn't a diaper service within 100 miles of my house...I looked!
It'll cost me a bit to cloth diaper because I didn't start with #1. I didn't realize until a few months ago that gerber burp rags weren't actual cloth diapers.
I've been putting my son in pocket diapers (Fuzzi Bunz and Bum Genius mostly) and they're working great. I don't think they'd fit on a newborn though...the size small looks huge. A friend gave me some tiny covers (6-10 lbs) and I got a few prefolds. I'm not as happy about doing it that way, but once I got the bug I decided this was my contribution to the environment in 2008.
Costwise, I think I'll end up saving about $500 over the next 2 years, but as all the $ I'm spending is up front, it's kind of hurting right now.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
Such as?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
If the seriously ill adult is bedridden, incapable of feeding herself, and incontinent there are some marked similarities. I've done that.
A chronic medical condition but still able to handle personal hygeine and self-feed? Not seeing as many similarities.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
If someone had commented in this thread that they were a mommy with a new baby because they had just received a seriously ill adult into their care, I would be creeped right the heck out.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: That's getting a bit personal, there, Scott.
Who died and made you the thread Po-Po?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Anyone cloth diapering?
Absolutely! I'd recommend it to anyone with a washing machine. It's cheaper, it's usually gentler for the baby, it's environmentally friendly (except in drought areas), and you can always pick up a pack of disposables if you're traveling.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Jon Boy, Perhaps you haven't been following the story but Tatiana adopted this guy because he was critically ill.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Jon Boy is fully aware of the story. It's still creepy.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I have followed this, and I believe you completely missed my point. Even if he is literally wearing diapers and throwing up constantly, and can't even lift his head or roll over, it's seriously creepy to call him a new baby.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
quote:Originally posted by pooka: That's getting a bit personal, there, Scott.
Who died and made you the thread Po-Po?
I'm just trying some affirmative action meddling.
P.S.
quote:I'm a new mother, though my baby isn't a newborn. I have the same thing going on that some of you have described, that I worry a lot, and I'm afraid he's going to break, or I'm going to do something wrong.
I think the continued assertions that Tatiana said Sasha was like a baby are inaccurate. I should think everyone would be delighted to find she's overwhelmed and frustrated.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: Certainly. Though, I don't want to get into that topic too much as it can bring the LLL folks out of the woodwork.
Which folks?
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
It's either La Leche League or he misspelled KKK.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote:Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
Such as?
I'd be happy to answer your question but not in this thread. I think we should give it back to the new mommies.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
That wasn't the question I was asking, pooka.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Anyhow...
I found nursing nightgowns impossible to wear. I pumped every 3 hours, so I had to have something easy to open in the dark and half asleep. Well, I started out as a DD and went up to an F in my first trimester. You don't want to know where I ended up. The na-na holes in the nursing nighties were too small for me, even in the biggest size (which was like a tent everywhere else). The saleslady and my mother wouldn't believe me until I showed them. It's funny now, but it wasn't then. Fortunately, my cousin sent me a beautiful regular nightie that happened to button half way down and it was perfect. So I just bought a bunch of inexpensive regular nighties that buttoned.
Also, if anyone is pumping - your nursing bra can hold the cups so you can have your hands free. Just fasten the flaps over the cups (and adjust until you're comfortable). It doesn't stretch them very much and it's awesome to have your hands free.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I love nursing nightgowns-- but I do have to get them a size or two up or else the ones with the super-extra-long slits and pull it around sideways to use it. (Basically, I have to go by my top size, not my nightgown size-- I'm a medium nightgown, but an XL top 'cause of the bustage.) I only have two (actually one's a pj top) but I do have a lot of button-up nighties. When I'm nursing a baby in them I keep them unbuttoned except for the top button for ease of use in the middle of the night.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: I'd just like to say that people who cloth diaper and use a service can't really recommend it to people who wouldn't use a service
Uh huh. I'd just like to say that you're wrong. I've used a service and I've washed them myself. The majority of the issues were exactly the same.
quote:Originally posted by Mrs.M: Also, if anyone is pumping - your nursing bra can hold the cups so you can have your hands free. Just fasten the flaps over the cups (and adjust until you're comfortable). It doesn't stretch them very much and it's awesome to have your hands free.
Does not work with some brand of nursing bras, IME. But having only one hand free was never that big a deal for me, so maybe I didn't try all that hard.
I completely agree on the preference of button-down nighties rather than nursing ones. Much, much easier, and cheaper to boot.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
One of my friends used cloth diapers (I don't). Her baby (number three) was super sensitive to wet diapers. She felt like she was changing the diaper every few minutes so she switched to disposables. However, now that the baby is older, she is hoping to switch back to cloth diapers. My view on diapers is that every baby demands something different. If we don't want to be covered in poop, we have to use Luvs. I have tried pampers, huggies, store brands, etc. I can't deal with poop so, the cloth wouldn't work. If the diaper does leak, I have to immediately wash the soiled outfit or it will drive me crazy.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I love my nursing pajamas. The first pair I got has a wrap-style top that you just pull aside to nurse. The cleavage is a little dramatic for answering the door or wearing around the house when someone might see me through the living room window, though. So I got another couple pair that have a fake-front that lifts out of the way to access the gigantic nursing openings. Love em.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I use the button-up nighties. I didn't like mine at first, because since I also started off double-pumping the vee neck wasn't big enough to get both of the girls out at the same time...I didn't think it through, so I was surprised how well it worked for nursing. Baby only needs one at a time.
Nathaniel is wearing a frog wrist rattle and he's currently trying to see if he can cram the whole thing inside his mouth, having been unsuccessful thus far with fitting his fist in.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Nathaniel is wearing a frog wrist rattle and he's currently trying to see if he can cram the whole thing inside his mouth, having been unsuccessful thus far with fitting his fist in.
Usually having a frog in one's throat is a bad thing. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I'm going to do a bit more reading on pumping in the next couple of months, because I swear sometimes I must have been doing it wrong when I did it with my son. I do realize that occasional pumping with an exclusively nursed baby doesn't work all that well, but the pitiful drops...the lonely, pitiful drops I got!
I never could get the pump on right. Forget hands free, I just never felt, for lack of a better word, as if the pump were latched on right. I also felt like I had to push it up and into my massive, saggy breasts and maybe I was wrong about that, too, but if I didn't then I got nothing at all. I had to have just the right amount of pressure in just the right direction...something a bra couldn't give me, unfortunately.
I like nursing much better.
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: One of my friends used cloth diapers (I don't). Her baby (number three) was super sensitive to wet diapers. She felt like she was changing the diaper every few minutes so she switched to disposables. However, now that the baby is older, she is hoping to switch back to cloth diapers. My view on diapers is that every baby demands something different. If we don't want to be covered in poop, we have to use Luvs. I have tried pampers, huggies, store brands, etc. I can't deal with poop so, the cloth wouldn't work. If the diaper does leak, I have to immediately wash the soiled outfit or it will drive me crazy.
Every single brand of disposable diapers we tried on my son leaked when he was a newborn. We tried them all, too. None of them seemed to be able to hold poop until he was in size 3. We brought 3 extra outfits wherever we went, just to be on the safe side, and one time we did run out and had to have him in poopy clothes until he got home.
I hate poop. It was the biggest thing I had to get over to cloth diaper. Fortunately, I have it on good authority that breastfed poop doesn't need to be touched -- just thrown in the diaper pail no rinsing involved. I'm actually kind of hoping that these work better than disposables in small sizes because I never did have luck.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
We discovered that monster needed to wear diapers a size bigger then we would think. And despite being breastfed, her poop was extremely stinky. And she could shoot it across the room (we were changing a poopy diaper and she decided she wasn't done- the distance was pretty impressive. As I was standing there covered in poop, calling for my mom, she decided to impersonate a boy and she peed all over me- also managing impressive distance and height).
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Fortunately, I have it on good authority that breastfed poop doesn't need to be touched -- just thrown in the diaper pail no rinsing involved.
This is true. And when they start on solids I highly recommend the "Potty Pail" sprayer system. No touching, scraping, swirling, etc. You set the bucket on the toilet, hang the diaper in it, spray off the poop, and it goes right into the toilet to be flushed away.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I'm going to do a bit more reading on pumping in the next couple of months, because I swear sometimes I must have been doing it wrong when I did it with my son. I do realize that occasional pumping with an exclusively nursed baby doesn't work all that well, but the pitiful drops...the lonely, pitiful drops I got!
I never could get the pump on right. Forget hands free, I just never felt, for lack of a better word, as if the pump were latched on right.
Sounds like your pump wasn't a good fit for you in some way. I strongly recommend a chat with a lactation consultant.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: We discovered that monster needed to wear diapers a size bigger then we would think. And despite being breastfed, her poop was extremely stinky. And she could shoot it across the room (we were changing a poopy diaper and she decided she wasn't done- the distance was pretty impressive. As I was standing there covered in poop, calling for my mom, she decided to impersonate a boy and she peed all over me- also managing impressive distance and height).
Yeah, we've consistently had our son in a size bigger than he should be. Right now, he's 25 lbs and we have the biggest box of Huggies (27+) for his Kids' Day Out. Anything smaller explodes overnight and it's been that way all along.
I've never heard of projectile pooping. That's pretty impressive. I don't think the stinky nature of it has anything to do with the washing factor. It's just supposed to dissolve so easily that there's no need for a pre-rinse. May be a need to wash every day, though, so they don't stink up the room! I'm hoping this next baby's poops smell as nice as my son's. I could barely smell a thing until he started solids -- except for the time we put him on an iron supplement for a few days. Yuck! I'll never do that again.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw:
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Fortunately, I have it on good authority that breastfed poop doesn't need to be touched -- just thrown in the diaper pail no rinsing involved.
This is true. And when they start on solids I highly recommend the "Potty Pail" sprayer system. No touching, scraping, swirling, etc. You set the bucket on the toilet, hang the diaper in it, spray off the poop, and it goes right into the toilet to be flushed away.
Thanks! I'll check that out.
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I'm going to do a bit more reading on pumping in the next couple of months, because I swear sometimes I must have been doing it wrong when I did it with my son. I do realize that occasional pumping with an exclusively nursed baby doesn't work all that well, but the pitiful drops...the lonely, pitiful drops I got!
I never could get the pump on right. Forget hands free, I just never felt, for lack of a better word, as if the pump were latched on right.
Sounds like your pump wasn't a good fit for you in some way. I strongly recommend a chat with a lactation consultant.
I was thinking about doing that early this summer. I may have more need than before to have pumped milk available which is why I've been worried about it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, my kids are almost always in a size (or even two!) up from what they "should" be in weight. It's their long torsos and skinny legs and funny shapes...
Currently we have to buy size 7 diapers for Bridey. 7. She weighs about 30 lbs. But the 6s leak. They don't sell size 7 diapers in the bulk boxes around here, all they carry are the little tiny packages, which are something like $0.53/diaper ON SALE WITH COUPONS. So I have to buy them in bulk online, which brings them down to something like $0.42/diaper, still more than I want to pay. *sigh*
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
What is a diaper service? As someone with a 6 month old I would love to know.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
They pick up your bag of dirty cloth diapers and drop off a pile of clean cloth diapers.
It somewhat, but not entirely, negates the cost-saving factors of cloth.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Christine, what kind of pump were/are you using? That can make all the difference. Some women have much better luck with a hospital-grade pump. You can rent one from most hospitals and some pharmacies for about $60-70 per month. When you pump 8X per day, it's a necessity. Plus, it's tax-deductible.
I used a Medela Symphony. I liked it much better than the Lactina.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by lem: What is a diaper service? As someone with a 6 month old I would love to know.
This is the one I used to use. They deliver clean cloth diapers to you once or twice a week, and pick up your dirty ones. They usually provide diaper covers too, as well as a free diaper pail and deodorizing discs.
I used them for all three kids and was really happy with them. There may be a similar one in your area; try looking here.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Bridget is 30 pounds?! And in 7 diapers?! Good gracious! Poor Aerin is only 27 pounds and in size 4's.
Actually, feeding is a huge issue for us and it's the first time I've strongly disagreed with a medical professional. We went to a feeding program for an evaluation b/c of Aerin's feeding issues (she'll only eat smooth baby food and cereal). They told me that she's in danger of developing an eating disorder when she gets older, she needs to gain at least half a pound a month, and she needs weekly feeding therapy. There's a big gap in her weight and height percentiles (25th for weight, 75th for height).
Aerin has always been slow to gain weight and she has a lot of mouth issues due to her extreme prematurity. I don't think they took that enough into account. Also, no one looked in her mouth during the 3-hour eval. My pediatrician and the neonate we see at the developmental follow-up clinic are backing me up, but I can't shake the worry.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Mrs M, we had John's 18 month appointment today and he's 25% for weight and 75-90th for height. The doctor wasn't at all concerned, he just said he's tall and skinny.
John doesn't have eating issues, though -- he eats pretty much anything he's served. (And near-adult sized portions if it involves pasta.)
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I have no medical knowledge so just my own experience. Monster hasn't gained any weight for like 4 months and our doctor isn't concerned- she's 15 months old and almost 20 pounds (and in size 4s). Her height is much taller then her weight (similar to Aerin's) and she went from 75th percentile in weight down to 10th between 9 and 12 months. But she looks healthy so until we see something else negative, we don't worry.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, I had a developmental eval for Emma and freaked out. As I've watched her I realized that the doctor was WRONG. So much that I refused to schedule the follow-up. I think they see so many problems they tend to see them even when they're not there sometimes. Aerin may need some OT help, but I doubt they took, as you said, everything into account. I know the developmental specialist didn't for Emma.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(And yes, Bridey is 30 lbs.-- probably a bit more-- and 34 inches tall last we checked. She is almost the same size as Emma! I get asked all the time if they are twins, especially when they are in matching clothes. Bridey will be 2 next month and is in size 3T dresses and approaching that in shirts, the only reason she can still sometimes wear 2T pants is that she's skinny enough that some of the width is taken up in length. Emma is now in a 5, sometimes a 4T for the same reasons.)
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I'm going to do a bit more reading on pumping in the next couple of months, because I swear sometimes I must have been doing it wrong when I did it with my son. I do realize that occasional pumping with an exclusively nursed baby doesn't work all that well, but the pitiful drops...the lonely, pitiful drops I got!
I never could get the pump on right. Forget hands free, I just never felt, for lack of a better word, as if the pump were latched on right.
Sounds like your pump wasn't a good fit for you in some way. I strongly recommend a chat with a lactation consultant.
I agree with rivka. A La Leche League Leader might also be able to give you some tips.
Keep in mind that it's normal for most women to produce no more than drops when pumping occasionally while totally breastfeeding a baby. It takes practice and a regular pumping schedule to get pumping going - which you only need to do if you have a need for expressed milk on a regular basis.
Another thing to remember is that those standard size pump flanges do not work for all women at all times. A lactation consultant will be able to help you figure out if you need a larger or smaller one.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
You might want to have a speech therapist check Aerin out. I know they can help with feeding issues.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ela: Another thing to remember is that those standard size pump flanges do not work for all women at all times. A lactation consultant will be able to help you figure out if you need a larger or smaller one.
*nods vigorously* And help you get little inserts to improve the fit.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Hmm, the little inserts aren't used so much anymore. I haven't seen them in years. We just have different size flanges in our lactation office - larger than standard and smaller. But most women need to go up in sizing, not down, IME.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ela: Hmm, the little inserts aren't used so much anymore. I haven't seen them in years.
Heh. I'm obsolete! Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
If you're obsolete, I hate to think what I am. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Up to date, clearly. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
What a diplomat you are. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*twinkle* Except I really wasn't talking about age at all!
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I'm so happy the thread is back on topic. I was getting depressed that "my" thread was being spoiled by arguments. (I know, nobody really owns the threads they start, including me!)
I wanted to do cloth diapers, but I don't think we're going to. I haven't spent anything on diapers yet, though, just wipes. I have about a half a pack of Pampers and a few Huggies left from gifts I got. I like that the pampers has a mesh that seems to trap the poop, but I don't like that the mesh sticks to her bottom. I think I like the huggies best, so far, but they have leaked. I don't know whether to blame the diaper or me.
I tried some generics we got as a gift, but I stopped using them after nearly every one leaked.
I haven't tried Luvs yet. Nobody gave us any.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: *twinkle* Except I really wasn't talking about age at all!
I realized that. Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mrs.M: Christine, what kind of pump were/are you using? That can make all the difference. Some women have much better luck with a hospital-grade pump. You can rent one from most hospitals and some pharmacies for about $60-70 per month. When you pump 8X per day, it's a necessity. Plus, it's tax-deductible.
I used a Medela Symphony. I liked it much better than the Lactina.
I have a very good pump. It's a Medela Pump in Style. We rented a similar one for a month before purchasing it and they both worked about the same, which is to say not very well. I pretty much just chalked it all up to exclusive nursing not giving me much left over to pump, but it was still kind of depressing.
I wasn't aware that the tubing came in different sizes. I'm going to have to check that out because it seems a very likely answer. It would have been nice if the lactation consultant who sold us the darn thing in the first place would have mentioned it....
[ March 28, 2008, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Christine ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The pump-in-style is a great daily use pump -- it's the one I have and it was perfect for me -- but it's not a hospital-grade pump. I don't know what all the differences are, but you might try renting a hospital-grade and see if it works better for you.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I've used both the Symphony (hospital grade) and the Pump in Style Advanced. The horns, tubing, etc. are identical. Both have the "let down" feature where there's a stimulation cycle to promote letdown before it begins the normal cycle.
The main difference is that the Symphony is a LOT quieter and ime gentler. I found the PiS painful when I first switched, even on the very lowest setting. I'm more used to it now, but I can generally only tolerate a 10-12 min. session, whereas I would do 20 on the Symphony. Luckily, I can usually get 5-7 oz in 10 min.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Since I don't work outside the home, a hospital grade pump would probably be a poor use of money, especially since I already spent $200 on this one that I'm not sure I should have spent.
I contacted the company and they didn't have any brilliant words of wisdom on how to figure out which size I need. I'm going to do a bit more research...
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
They don't absorb leakage, they are supposed to stop it from happening in the first place. I think that seems like a better solution than the pads that slip and have to keep on being replaced. They are almost $20, though. If they work well, they'd be worth it, and less than disposable nursing pads.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I considered lilypadz as I leaked nonstop for nearly 6 months and needed pads pretty much until I weaned. I did not use them as I read a lot of reviews saying if you are well endowed they are uncomfortable and just don't work. The website said they have heard the complaints and are working to fix it, but I don't know if they ever did.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I've heard they don't work well for those of us with larger chests.
I hate disposables. I use cloth.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Don't get the gerber cloth ones though. I think it was Ameda that made the ones I liked. The gerber were too small and I leaked through them ridiculously fact (of course, as I said, I had a very good milk supply so my problems might not be universal).
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I have some Medela ones that I like, although I use them with some plainer ones behind them-- double layers work best for me. I got lucky and my mom had saved all of hers and gave them to me (like ten gazillion of them. She still occasionally finds more in the garage and gives them to me!)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(You can also make your own. I find that a layer of very thin fleece and a layer of prefold diaper-- recycled old ones are fine-- work well...)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I have such a large pile of laundry from leaking. I am a bit large, more so now that I'm nursing--so I wonder if they would work for me. I wonder if there's a money back guarantee or something.
Do the reusable nursing pads really work? I would think that I would fill them up so quickly that I would need a lot in order to keep up with the laundry.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I have found the cloth ones to be completely useless for me thus far. I like the Lansinoh disposables. I'd rather use cloth--cheaper, environmentally friendlier, more comfortable--but since every time I've used them I've soaked through the pad, my bra, and my shirt as soon as I nurse or have a let down, I've pretty much given up. Maybe I'll try doubling up--but not sometime when I'll be going out in public...
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
They really do, but you're right. You do have to change them more frequently than sposies, just like with diapers.
Fortunately, most of the major leakage issues seem to clear up in just a few short weeks. Instead of buying enough cloth nursing pads to last until I was ready to wash them, I just used folded up washcloths in my bras at home.
I found the Bravada(?) pads I have are very comfortable to wear but you can definitely see that I'm wearing them due to the bulky edges. Dr. Brown's pads are very comfortable and trim, but not so absorbent...so I use them between the terry Bravada ones and my bra. Problem solved: invisible absorbency.
I'm still having lots of issues with Moose's weight. The doctor is very upset with me for not doing what she said, and said Thursday that if he doesn't gain at least 4 ounces by Monday she wants to put him in the hospital.
She wants him on formula for the entire weekend, to monitor how much he's getting. I asked her to help me get a scale so I don't have to do that and she said that at this point breastfeeding hasn't worked out and that it wouldn't matter how much he was taking since there's no way to monitor the quality of my milk.
Meanwhile, I've realized that Moose is in pain. He still nurses frequently, but pulls off crying and arches his back the whole time (unless we're side lying, but I think he just doesn't get a big letdown that way so can take his time and swallow when he's ready to). He vastly prefers not to swallow anything warmer than refrigerator temperature. Poor baby has a sore throat. I think this thrush is causing most of our problems, and I'm doing everything I can to get rid of it, but at this point I'm getting desperate.
And my husband got mad at me tonight because I was sitting on the bed just holding the baby and crying when he came home from work. He says I should just give up on breastfeeding this one and let it go. He says it's causing too much stress and I need to be more available to him and the other kids; that our new routine is taking too much time and effort.
I say that breast milk is very, very important, and that our nursing relationship is in serious jeopardy. I say that it's not like he's the one making any effort toward the situation at all, and that if he can't be helpful, he needs to stay out of it. It's not like I"m doing this because I think it's fun. I say he's causing more stress by not being supportive.
Unfortunately, the stress of this situation is really getting to me. Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I'm sorry Boon.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
*hugs* That really stinks. Have you considered getting another pediatrician? I think you need someone who is more supportive and not so tied to the weight charts.
At the very least, you should get a second opinion. If that doctor backs up your doctor now, at least you'll know that there might actually be a problem with Moose getting enough nutrients.
If I had gone with my first pediatrician, my baby would probably be stuck on formula right now.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Have they checked out his tummy issues? I know that was tummy screaming I heard the other day.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I find it disturbing how often breastfeeding is deemed inadequate for a baby. I don't have any real statistics for this opinion, only what I've heard said by women who were told they couldn't breastfeed or who say that they didn't have enough milk. I'm not trying to say that they're all wrong, but it just seems that it seems to happen way too often to make any sense.
After all, isn't this supposed to be a natural function, and shouldn't problems be the exception, and a rare exception?
I wouldn't judge anyone who said they couldn't breastfeed--that's between them and their doctor and what do I know? But I feel like a lot of doctors are too quick to criticize breastfeeding and not to give it the respect it deserves--and are misinformed about the differences between formula-fed and breastfed babies.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Oh, we go for Katababy's 4-week appointment next week. I think I'll have to look up that chart someone posted up thread of weights for breastfed babies.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
She isn't being helpful in the least, other than to keep telling me to put him on formula.
Unfortunately, I now agree with her that he HAS to gain some weight. I'm not sure that her amount is reasonable, but he lost 4 ounces last week. He'd actually stopped pooping for three days, and then had a GIANT poo Thursday morning. Seriously, there had to be about a half a cup of peanut-butter poo. I think he just couldn't eat as much as normal 'cause his tummy was already fullish.
I just don't think formula should be the first choice of "treatment," considering all the factors.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Oh, Boon, I am so sorry. Are you able to get out to see a lactation consultant? Or can one come to your house?
"Quality" of your milk. Grrr. I'm sure it makes it worse that this is coming from a doctor you otherwise like.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
Unfortunately, an LC is out of the question, at least until next Friday. WIC loaned me a Lactina Select, but that's all they'll do for us until the sixth.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I won't say that problems should be rare, but problems that you can't get through should be rare, yes. Part of it, I think, is lack of support. The doctor, the family, the community, everyone have to be supportive for it to work the way it should for the majority of women. In most cases support is waaaay inadequate. I mean, think about it, in "olden days", most women would live with extended family around, so they could take over the care of the house and other children and meals and such while mama dealt with figuring out breastfeeding problems that might come up. Then, there's the availability thing-- if formula wasn't such a readily-available option (we have clean, cheap, easily-accessible water, most women can afford to buy formula even if it puts a strain on the budget, government programs will provide it for those who can't...), I think less women would use it. But because it's there to fall back on, it's often easier to fall back. And I'm not saying that's wrong-- especially because we deal with stresses (often working moms, etc.) that aren't always present in less-developed societies where formula would be less available. And again, without the extended support system. So for the emotional well-being of the family, sometimes it MAY be necessary to switch. But you're right. I think that a lot of the problems that could be got through in other circumstances, are not got through because of lack of support, information, and an easily-available second option.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
It kind of reminds me of an episode of House where they don't know why someone is sick, but they just start treating for something without verification.
How old is your baby, Boon?
And it was hard for me to defy my baby's first doctor about the formula feeding. If my baby was losing weight and I was in your situation, Boon, I know it would be very hard for me. So I feel for you. I wish you the very best, and I hope that you are able to find a doctor and a solution that works the best for your baby.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
EXACTLY. And if you've watched that show, you know that the treatments sometimes make things worse!
If they put babies on formula and then find out the problem is with the formula too, it can make things worse, not better.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
He'll be 7 weeks early Monday morning.
Right now, I'm syringe feeding him breast milk. I'm pumping like mad, trying desperately to keep up with demand. If I'm not getting enough to give him, then I'll give him some formula. He's getting my milk first, though!
If he hasn't at least regained what he lost last week by Monday... well... I prefer not to think about that.
I'd rather think about his big, huge, "Tommy Pickles" grins. Yep, he's been smiling (sometimes) for about a week and a half now, and it's such a joy to look down at him and see him just break out into a giant smile. Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
Oh, yeah...and I refuse to get up in the middle of the night to fetch milk from the fridge, when he likes side-lying just fine, so he'll be getting at least 24 ounces during our waking hours and then whatever he gets comfort nursing in bed.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Boon, that's how I felt when the pediatrician told me to give the baby formula. She had relented and said I could breastfeed first, but then to give the baby formula after each feeding. I had so much milk (it was the first day my milk came in, so I was positively bursting--haven't had so much since) that I let the baby fill up on breastmilk. Ooops! I guess I can't give the baby formula. She's not hungry anymore! (And I still have breastmilk on tap!)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Speaking of side-lying...that's how I primarily feed Katababy. Are there benefits to other feeding positions? I read that you can have problems if you only feed in one position, but I sometimes feed sitting up with her on my lap--probably at least once a day. Sometimes I even stand during feeding, but that's even rarer.
Side-lying is just so convenient for both of us, but if she's not getting enough milk in that position, then we'll have to make some changes.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm out of milk at the end of a feeding. I feel deflated (heh--it's really odd), but I can't remember what size I used to be, so I think "Is this all me or is there milk left in there?" She seems to get plenty enough to spit up, though!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I fed Ems side-lying most of the time, too, my favorite position! 'Specially with the cracked tailbone I had, ouch. We were fine. If you get engorged do change her around, though. But she'll get milk just fine, you'll adjust to what she needs and what you're used to.
And usually there's a bit left in there but yes, you can "empty out" somewhat at the end of a feeding-- but you fill right back up! And if she keeps sucking you'll make more as she sucks it out, too.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Boon -- I'm so sorry! I wish I had something helpful to add but I just really hope he gets those ounces back by Monday.
Quality of breast milk....grrrrr.....
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Speaking of side-lying...that's how I primarily feed Katababy. Are there benefits to other feeding positions? I read that you can have problems if you only feed in one position, but I sometimes feed sitting up with her on my lap--probably at least once a day. Sometimes I even stand during feeding, but that's even rarer.
Side-lying is just so convenient for both of us, but if she's not getting enough milk in that position, then we'll have to make some changes.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm out of milk at the end of a feeding. I feel deflated (heh--it's really odd), but I can't remember what size I used to be, so I think "Is this all me or is there milk left in there?" She seems to get plenty enough to spit up, though!
From what I understand, the benefits of using multiple positions is that more of your milk ducts are stimulated through the course of the day. Different milk ducts are stimulated when you lie on your side vs. when you sit upright.
I loved side-lying at night, but I usually preferred a sitting position during the day.
As for running out of milk -- you never truly run out of milk. Your body can always make more, but it's slower at the end of a feeding, fattier, and takes more work to get out. When a baby goes through a growth spurt (3 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months, 6 months approximate on all) they will want to nurse much more frequently, even past the point where you seem "empty" but they are getting something and they are also encouraging your breasts to produce more in the future to be ready for their growing needs.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
That's really good to know!
I've wondered sometimes, if she gets frustrated at not getting anything from me.
Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
My first son gave up on breastfeeding at 4 months old. No matter how much we nursed, he was just never ever satisfied and finally refused to do it anymore. I tried every supplement know to help lactation with no improvement. I was pumping regularly. No luck. I was devastated. But I also knew that breast milk wasn't the only good thing for my baby...having a happy mom was important, too. So all worked out, even if I didn't like how.
I was determined to make it work this time. On day 3 in the hospital, the on-call pediatrician told me to supplement because my baby had lost 10% of his body weight. (Who made up that stupid magical number, anyway? He was perfectly healthy in every other way. Not even jaundiced!) I cried and said "No way! That's the worst thing I could do when I'm trying to get my milk to come in." My milk didn't come in until day 5 (same as last time). They weren't even giving my body a chance to work. The milk did come in, and it was ok for a day or two. After that, no matter how much we nursed, it was never enough. Since supplements didn't work last time, I decided I would try Reglan (a stomach medication that has a byproduct of producing prolactin). It worked while I was on the medication, but my supply dropped after I weaned off. Life was HORRIBLE for us. My baby that was born happy and content was a (cute) grumpy mess! After 2 months, I was on the verge of supplementing, as *I* was a wreak. I couldn't be a mom in that state.
I decided to give Reglan one more try, since I really wanted breastfeeding to work. I took it for a week, then weaned off. This time I used it in conjunction with 3 teabags of mother milk tea, diluted in 3 liters of water that I drank every day for 2 weeks straight. It worked. My milk production increased, baby was satisfied and everyone was happy. It's 4 months later and I haven't had a problem since. Well, I do have problem in that he won't take pumped milk in a bottle, so I can't leave him for more than 2 hours!! But I'll take that problem any day.
Have you talked to the doctor about Reglan? I was opposed to it for baby #1, but I'm so grateful that I gave it a try for baby #2. Maybe it could help you, Boon?
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Boon - How awful. I really hope breastfeeding can work for you and I second the suggestion to seek a second opinion if your pediatrician is determined that you *have* to formula feed.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by divaesefani: (Who made up that stupid magical number, anyway? He was perfectly healthy in every other way. Not even jaundiced!)
The main concern at that point isn't just with bilirubin (which causes jaundice), but also with electrolytes. At 10% body weight loss of fluids, the risk of severe complications from the level of relative elevated sodium (hypernatremia) goes sharply up, e.g., brain shrinkage, seizures, brain bleeding, and brainstem herniation when rehydration is established that subsequently leads to death. These are the same forces at work that lead to the death from brainstem herniation of the woman who drank excessive amounts of water for a radio contest. Different specific mechanism, but the same issues were at play.
Unfortunately, the babies who are about to crash may be active, alert, and acting hungry. They don't always seem lethargic or irritable before the brain has acute and rapidly deteriorating problems. There are many case reports in the literature of newborns who were sent back home at 10% fluid loss because of a normal-appearing physical and neurological exam who then went on to have serious problems.
Of course, many babies don't have such problems and get through okay. It's just that there is a sharp increase in risk at that point, and when the physical exam is unreliable, the numbers are the best we have to rely on. Also, the rehydration generally needs to be done in a very controlled way because of the risk of brain being unable to avoid overswelling once the sodium has become concentrated enough.
---
I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you and your family! I wish lactation consultants were called in much more often and more quickly than they seemed to be. There are so many tricks and techniques to help mothers and babies get through that initial period of difficulty while still supporting breastfeeding.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Boon, I'm so sorry to learn of your difficulties with the physician and with getting the support you need at home. It sounds like a really horrid experience all around.
One thing I may be able to make a bit better -- when the physician was talking about the "quality of your milk," it may well have been a reference to those electrolyte levels, not to nutritious-ness in general. Breast milk can be very concentrated with regards to salts, and he/she may have been concerned about that part -- with formula or IV fluids, those salt levels are known and constant, and that gradual rehydration I mentioned above is just more controlled and doesn't happy so quickly or slowly as to put the baby at yet more risk. (But if this was the concern, it sounds like it surely could have been better communicated to you! )
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Thanks, CT. I was going to say something like that, but my post would have read, “My doctor said... [insert clumsy, layman summary of what you wrote].”
Boon, your situation is setting off a lot of alarm bells for me with regard to your pediatrician, but not for the reasons most of the other moms are listing.
First, is she treating the baby for the thrush? Your whole family needs to be tested and treated – it’s fairly contagious. It’s also usually pretty easy to treat.
Second, of course you can test the quality of breast milk. They did it all the time in the NICU. They can test it for thrush and yeast infections and check the fat and salt contents. They tested my breast milk pretty regularly because Aerin was slow to gain weight. I can’t imagine that a pediatrician wouldn’t want to test the breast milk of the mother of an infant with thrush.
Third, there are steps between exclusive breast milk and exclusive formula to help babies gain weight. You can add weight-gain formula to your breast milk and continue to feed the baby through a syringe. There’s also MCT oil, which is basically fat that you can add to the breast milk. That helped Aerin gain. I don’t know if it’s available outside of a hospital setting, though.
I feel compelled to say that while I feel that the breastfeeding relationship between a mother and baby is both wonderful and important, Failure to Thrive is very serious. I’ve seen many babies hospitalized with it and that’s never what anyone wants for a child. The baby would undergo testing and most likely have feeding tube inserted; in addition to whatever treatment he ended up requiring. Personally, I would try the in-between steps, and then formula, because I have had a baby in intensive care and I would want to do everything I could to avoid it. On the other hand, it can be a relief to be in a place where you can see any and every specialist in a short period of time and have a medical team devoted to your child.
And to be perfectly honest, I would probably switch pediatricians.
You are the baby are both in my prayers.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I'd agree with you on all points, Mrs. M, with the added comment that an accurate home-based test for breast milk characteristics may or may not be available (I don't know which), but it can be tested at hospital or laboratory.
What I found most pertinant is that the researchers found that [of the 23 infants] only about 1/2 the infants with worrisome hypernatremic dehydration had signs of dehydration on physical exam, and only about 1/3 had visible jaundice. They also found worrisome blood sodium levels in babies as low as 8% loss of birth weight, which is consistent with other data coming out internationally. The guidelines might be revised in the future.
Generally breast milk falls in a certain range of sodium levels, but this can vary throught the day and over several days to weeks. There are generally predictable patterns, but women whose babies had sodium problems have had their milk tested at 8 X the expected levels or more. Unfortunately, there wasn't any reliable way of telling whose milk might be very sodium-concentrated except by specifically testing the milk itself.
---
Edited to add:
Of note, though, just over 1/2 the tested milk was itself high in sodium -- for many of the mothers, their milk itself was in normal electrolyte ranges and still there was a high sodium level in the babies. In this series of case studies, though, there were many other risk factors that could have been identified with adequate prenatal and postnatal screening, but in some other cases, there were not.
[ March 29, 2008, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
Thanks for the info, CT. I'm glad to know the 10% number isn't just "made up." I just felt like they weren't giving my body a chance to make milk before all efforts were cut off. I'll keep your info in mind next time I give birth and make the best educated decision possible. Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
::sigh::
On the thrush: yeah, but only because I insist. She says it's "not apparent" but I've never actually seen her look into his mouth while it was open. It looks very mild on his tongue, but I understand it can be down his throat as well. I have no outward symptoms, but I can feel it in my breasts (especially the right one) and up into my right shoulder and neck during and after a feed or pump session. I also have the most raging vaginal yeast infection, which she swears is not related to either the thrush or the antibiotics I was on shortly before the birth.
So far we've been on nystatin (cream for me, drops for him, and they didn't seem to help at all), miconazole (for me), and I've been using APNO and grapefruit seed extract for a week and a half (couldn't find 1% gentian violet anywhere or I'd have used it, too), and added diflucan and probiotics for both of us Thursday. I'm finally starting to feel a bit more comfortable. I just pray this will cure us.
Michael and I are the only ones being treated. She has not offered testing for us, and I wasn't aware the rest of the family could get it since he's the only one nursing, ya know? Do I really need to have them all tested?
I'm fairly convinced at this point that we have a supply issue, compounded by pain on both our parts. From 4pm yesterday to 4pm today he ate 11 times, syringe fed the first ounce, then nurse, 1/2 ounce, nurse, 1/2 ounce, nurse, etc. During that timeframe he had 12 ounces of formula, 5.5 ounces of expressed breast milk, and spent an average of 15 minutes per session actually nursing. We do this every 2 hours (except at night, when we just nurse, so those total numbers are just from 4pm-midnight and 7am-4pm). Then I pump for the next feeding.
I was able to pump the most yesterday afternoon, but the amount I'm able to pump has been decreasing. I don't know why. I've only been able to get a teaspoon or so each session since noon today. I'm pumping for 15 to 20 minutes, about an hour after each feeding during our waking hours. I've tried changing the horn size, varying the speed, varying the suction, and I still get nothing.
Of course, the unused breast does nothing but drip the whole time he nurses, though. If I had about 3 more hands, I'd try pumping while he nurses, but I can't hold him and the boob and a horn and another boob all at once.
My nipples haven't been this sore ever.
During my spare 5 minutes at a time today, I made Moose a new fitted diaper from an old flannel shirt, an old t-shirt, and an old dishcloth. (And some new elastic. I'll add some new velcro when I can get to the store Monday.) I based the pattern on a size 1 disposable diaper, so it won't fit him for a long time, but It's So Darn CUTE and soft! Plaid flannel butt. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by divaesefani: Thanks for the info, CT. I'm glad to know the 10% number isn't just "made up." I just felt like they weren't giving my body a chance to make milk before all efforts were cut off. I'll keep your info in mind next time I give birth and make the best educated decision possible.
My son also lost 10% of his body weight in the first few days but my pediatrician never told me to supplement..he just kept telling me to nurse as often as possible. We did go in several times for weight and jaundice checks, though, and his weight started coming back up at the end of a week. I felt pretty good about the situation and about my doctor's treatment of it. He watched us closely while giving my body every chance to start working.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
In case anyone was wondering, we're doing okay. Moose regained the weight he lost plus a couple of ounces while taking the 12 ounces a day of formula, so definitely a supply issue.
I'm currently on diflucan, Claritin, prenatal vitamins, extra b complex, GSE, APNO, fenugreek, blessed thistle, flaxseed oil, and acidophilus probiotics. Whew. I also have one hundred and twenty 10mg tablets of Reglan, with one refill, but she didn't know what the dosage should be for stimulating milk supply (she wrote it for 1 every 6-8 hours as needed, and told me to take however much I thought prudent). How much were you taking divaestefani?
Right now my plan is to keep him on the 12 ounces of formula supplement (we rigged up a SNS out of a syringe and a butterfly needle tube with the needle part cut off) until at least next Monday and then start the Reglan and slowly try to wean back off the formula.
I've also backed off the pump for the time being. I'm only using it twice a day now, and am getting about an ounce per side again.
This is SO not fun. I'm looking forward to the day all this extra work is unnecessary. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was wondering about you, Boon! I'm glad the baby is gaining weight but I'm sorry you're having to go through all this trouble!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
That's such great news about the weight gain! I was also wondering how things were going with you. You are amazing! I don't know if I'd be able to endure that daily process.
I feel very blessed that James is a good little eater. (Speaking of that...James' two month appointment is tomorrow, and I can't wait to see how much he's grown!)
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yay Moose! I'd been wondering how things were going. I'm so glad he's gained weight, but I'm so sorry you're still having supply issues. I really hope things will increase quickly for you!!
Beanie is completely into her 3-6 month clothes. She's also been having lots of diaper explosions this week. I'm trying to figure out if it's a phase, or if she needs the next bigger size diapers (I hope that's not it since, of course, we still have about 2/3 of a Costco box of diapers in the current size). I'm also totally thrilled that I found a Rainforest jumperoo (we don't have a handy doorway for an in-the-door jumpers) for $30 on craigslist and she loves it! I'm working on transitioning her to the cradle, since she's getting too big for the bed co-sleeper. It's a little sad, but at least she'll still be close for nightly feedings.
Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boon: I also have one hundred and twenty 10mg tablets of Reglan, with one refill, but she didn't know what the dosage should be for stimulating milk supply (she wrote it for 1 every 6-8 hours as needed, and told me to take however much I thought prudent). How much were you taking divaestefani?
I was on 10mg 3 times a day. I was instructed by my lactation consultant to take it full force for a week and then slowly wean off. She said if you stop abruptly, so will your supply. Like I said previously, the first time I weaned off, my supply dropped, but the 2nd time it stayed strong. I used mother's milk tea the 2nd time, but it looks like you've got plenty of stimulating herbs to help the way the tea did for me. If you have questions about the Reglan, I'd find a lactation consultant, as my doctor wasn't sure the correct way to use it for BF either.
I'm glad Moose gained weight, and I hope you're able to wean off the formula. It looks like you've got a good plan of action! My prayers are with you.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: I was wondering about you, Boon! I'm glad the baby is gaining weight but I'm sorry you're having to go through all this trouble!
Ditto!
That's a lot of things you're taking! I hope they do the trick!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Wow. Nothing could have prepared me for the look on James' face when he got his 2-month shots today! I actually thought I was prepared because I knew it was going to be very sad from talking to other moms, but it was awful! I think the look on his face is plastered on my memory now. I thought I might cry a bit after it happened, but I didn't realize I'd burst into tears so quickly. If only there was a different way to administer immunizations!
In other news, he's happy and healthy! He's 12 lbs 12 oz now!
Unfortunately, that was most likely our last appointment with our wonderful pediatrician before we move. I'm not really looking forward to finding a new doctor in Portland because I'm afraid we won't be able to find anyone as good. It takes a lot for my husband to trust a doctor, and he really trusts our current doctor. I guess I'm just worrying about all the unknowns...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I was just talking about this with my mom last night... I think the nurses think my husband and I are unfeeling because we just say, "Yeah, she's gonna scream, how do you want me to hold her?" when we take our kids in for shots... It's not that. But I was raised by a nurse who treated ME that way, and he was a vet tech... We care but the shots are necessary. So we try to distract the kid, hold the kid down, get through it, and THEN worry about their comfort.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Shots are no fun! But yay for a healthy growing baby!
I felt so bad that Beanie screamed for her shots (and for the weighing too). Granted, she didn't start screaming until after the 2nd of 4 shots, but it broke my heart. I know that babies pick up on our moods, so I worked really hard not to be anxious or overly upset (I'm really proud of myself for not crying). I'm hoping that with some better planning on my part things will go better the end of this month (for her 4 month shots). She'd fallen asleep in the car on the way over (it's about a 45 minute drive to the doctor's office) and woke up hungry in the waiting room. I nursed her while waiting for the doctor, but since she'd just woken up, she didn't eat as much as she needed to, and realized shortly before shot time that she was still hungry (so that contributed to the screaming). This time, I'll leave earlier so when we get there I can get her all the way awake (maybe we can run next door to Sprouts for a few minutes before her appointment) and nurse her (in the car or the waiting room). I may also ask if I can hold her while they do the shots, since laying her flat on her back is pretty much guaranteed to make her cry on its own. I was able to get her calmed down after a couple minutes by nursing her and I'll probably do that again.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was able to nurse my son just as soon as they gave him the shots, which seemed to help a ton. It was hard to watch, but I know they're necessary and it's not like he remembers. I seem to recall him being extra sleepy for the rest of the day and then going back to his smiley self.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
kq, I'm with you, and probably because my mom was pretty matter-of-fact about them too.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
I think (hope?) I'll get tougher as I get more used to being a mom. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
My little one has only gotten a couple of heel sticks and a pku test. What with all of the controversy over vaccines, I'm not going to have her vaccinated--at least not while she's an infant. I saw Jenny McCarthy on Larry King last night, and she was talking about all of the mothers she's talked to whose kids had their shots, got a fever, and then stopped talking. It's not like they were saying that the vaccines themselves caused autism, but that certain children have conditions that make them high risk, and a fever or whatever reaction they can have to the vaccines can bring on autism. This, of course, is my lay persons summation. I realize it's more complicated than that. McCarthy, and the doctors who agreed with her, didn't have a problem with vaccines themselves, but with the schedule of vaccines and how it is not tailored to each specific child's needs.
I told my doctor I wasn't going to let her get vaccinated now, but that I was open to the possibility later on. My doctor didn't blink an eye--she wasn't judgmental or rude about it at all. She did mention that autism rates had gone up since thimerasol was taken out of the vaccines, but I don't believe that mercury is the only cause or trigger of autism. I also don't believe that autism is the only risk of vaccines.
I do, though, understand how important vaccines are to our civilization, and like McCarthy pointed out, hopefully the fact that so many parents are hesitant and resistant to vaccines now will make the CDC pay attention to concerns, admit connections, and to make changes.
On Larry King they also talked about a girl who got autism and the government admitted that vaccines were the culprit (or maybe just the trigger?) and were awarded a settlement from a fund meant specifically for damage done from vaccines. Her name was Hannah, I think, but don't quote me on it.
But about pain and needles... Katababy cried more the first time from having them hold her foot, restricting her movement, I think. Because the second time, she winced in her sleep from the needle prick, then she slept through the entire thing.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Katarain, she didn't have a PKU test, she had a newborn screening test. (Sorry, my mom worked Newborn Screening for years and it's a sensitive point that "it's not called a PKU test!")
I vaccinate on a schedule that feels right for me and my kids. Bridget was sick most of her first year, cold after cold after cold. It didn't feel right to get most of her vx done while that sick; I did the first few and stretched the others to times she was well. Then she got all caught up at 18 months when we had them give 7 vx (6 shots) at once... She didn't like it but it was done!
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Well, that's what the nurses called it. If they want us to use the right terminology, they need to too. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Katarain, she didn't have a PKU test, she had a newborn screening test.
Which tests for PKU, neh? Which would make it a PKU test, even if it's not officially called that.
None of the ways to measure iron level are officially called an anemia test (or an iron test), but that's what all of them are referred to colloquially.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes, I had a nurse that called it that in TX. I corrected her. She got a little irritated with me, I think more because I explained in detail what disorders the state of TX tested for, how long they had been testing for them, and signed the consent form without reading it...
(Here in CA, you don't have to sign a separate consent, you only have to sign something if you have a religious exemption. Which is very rare. Otherwise they just do it. But the nurses were a little surprised when I called to make sure that they were going to do it within the proper timeframe-- 24 to 48 hours after birth-- for Bridget...)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It tests for PKU and at least 3 other disorders in every state. It is not just a PKU test and the reason the Newborn Screening people don't like it called that is that the nurses who call it a PKU test aren't always fully informed on the other conditions and quite often aren't fully aware of proper procedures... It's part of an overall education issue. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(There was one Newborn Screening Coordinator who had a little rap she did when she went out doing training. *giggles*)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: It tests for PKU and at least 3 other disorders in every state.
Ah. That certainly is not something they ever made clear to us.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Somewhere out there are delayed vaccination schedules that people have thought through and it may be a good idea, if you're thinking of delaying, to look into it. I know that there are some diseases that it is very important to vaccinate against early whereas others can wait. (I'm not sure which is which because unless I have a sick baby, I'm going with my doctor's schedule.)
I also understand that the recent round of complaints is against the # of vaccines given at the same time and that they are just suggesting to spread them out.
Last time I checked (2 years ago when I had my son vaccinated) there was still no substantive link between vaccines and autism.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I certainly respect people's rights to choose a vaccination schedule that works for them. Personally, we chose to vaccinate on the traditional schedule both for my daughter's wellbeing and for my mother's (who is immune compromised and is prone to some of the diseases for which children are vaccinated).
There has been lots of anecdotal evidence to suggest a link between autism and vaccination, but no studies yet (that I am aware of). I think it is interesting that there has been a substantive link identified between autism and being premature. Autism is an interesting thing. I have wondered why it is so much more common now than it was 50 years ago. Environmental issues? Better screening? More trendy?
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Boon, I've been keeping up w/ y'all's progress and I'm glad things seem to be improving. Having to do all the prep work is stressful, but things will seem that much easier when you can let up a bit. I remember that each time just one of Aerin's meds was discontinued it felt like I had all this free time.
Okay, at the outset, this is a very touchy subject for me. I am the parent of an immuno-compromised child who has a preliminary diagnosis of autism. There is ZERO clinical evidence that vaccines cause autism. There has been extensive research and it's time to put that effort and money elsewhere. Jenny McCarthy is doing so much to hurt autistic children everywhere and I wish she would SHUT UP. She is an actress (and I use the term loosely) and a Playboy model who has NO MEDICAL TRAINING WHATSOEVER. Who cares that she talks to parents of autistic children all over the country? I talk to parents of premature babies all over the country - does that make me a neonatologist? There's also no evidence that diet or vitamins or gluten or whatever these parents are clinging to this year has any effect on these children. It's extremely frustrating for those of us who accept our children's disability to see the limited amount of resources being put into what is essentially grasping at straws. Aerin received all of her vaccinations on schedule (or as close as you can get with a preemie). She never had any significant reaction (red bump at injection site w/ chicken pox vac) to them and they saved her life. So all of this research and publicity is meaningless to her, as it is to the thousands of other children who could have benefitted from more money for therapy and early intervention.
There is not an autism epidemic. There are many reasons why more cases are being diagnosed, but it's not that there are more cases to diagnose. The clinical definition of autism has changed, screening has improved, and awareness of the condition has improved. There is actually a lot of over-diagnosing going on and it's doing a lot of damage.
Autism is a spectrum disorder. This means that children with any number and combination of traits that fall within the parameters will be diagnosed. Not all of these children have autism and, of the ones that do, none of them are alike. Aerin most likely has Asberger's, which is very different from a child with Pervasive Developmental Disorder, for example.
Finally, the link between autism and prematurity is deceiving. Often it is the reason behind the premature birth that is the cause or trigger. For example, there is a link between placenta previa (placenta covers the cervix) and autism and they're researching a link between toxemia and autism. Also, there is a link between advanced maternal age and autism and AMA mothers are more likely to deliver prematurely, as well.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*applauds*
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The latest studies I have seen on vaccines and autism show no link between vaccines and autism.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Mrs.M- I was trying to think how to make the points you did, but you did it so well. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Edited to add this, because I want to be very clear: I am convinced that everyone involved in the discussion here and elsewhere wants what is best for the children involved. That is wonderful and remarkable -- if only more disagreements were had because of such love and dedication!
---------------------------------
Can I adore and respect you more, Mrs.M? I think not.
Not only do the latest studies show no connection between vaccination and autism (as ketchupqueen noted above), but former studies have been discredited. This was in part due to the investigation into the (hidden) paid connection between the central researcher and families trying to sue because of their children's diagnoses.
When that came out, all of the 6 or 7 other researchers who had co-authored the reports on the research formerly withdrew their support and repudiated the findings.
Jenny McCarthy used to attribute her child's behavior characteristics to his being a "crystal child" with her his "Indigo Mom." She ran a website called www.IndigoMoms.com for awhile, but despite her very firm and sincere conviction about that explanation, it has been discarded. Zip, nada, no longer mentioned. I expect this current belief will follow eventually.
As Mrs.M says, she has no medical background, and she actually makes many flagrant errors in assessing what science is out there. I have no doubt of her love for her child and her dedication to him, but she is not the person to cite as a critical authority on any of this.
--------------------------------
Boon, I'm so happy things are going better for you and your little one. It sounds like you are strong and in charge -- awesome.
[ April 04, 2008, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Katababy is smiling now. She's just under six weeks.
It's soooo cute! Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
Moose is doing well, gaining well, and is down to 7-9 ounces of formula a day. Our doctor had my switch to Nutramigen because of some reflux-type symptoms, and I've cut out all dairy (not easy, let me tell you!) from my diet.
I still believe the thrush caused out problems to begin with. I think it hurt him so much to swallow that he avoided it as much as possible by not nursing effectively, bombing my milk supply and causing the weight loss.
I had to give the breast pump back before WIC would help me buy formula. Sad, I know. And they don't have (or even know about, most of them) supplemental nursing systems. Fortunately for me, the nutritionist at my local office is a very nice lady and is very dedicated to breastfeeding. She was given an SNS by a LC at the hospital when her now-seven-month-old was a newborn with a weak suck. She still had it and gave it to me last week.
I know there is a small risk with used breastfeeding supplies, but I know this woman, she knows she has no diseases, the unit has been sitting dry on her shelf for months, and I washed it with hot soapy water, rinsed with a mild bleach solution, rinsed it with tons more hot water, and boiled the sucker for ten minutes.
It's a lot easier to feed him when I don't have to refill the syringe so many times during a single feeding, breaking his suction to replace the tube. Now I can just fix the "bottle," tape the tube to one breast, latch him on and let him nurse. I wait until he starts getting fussy, like the flow has stopped, and then turn on the SNS and let him have 1 ounce. Then we switch to the other breast and do the same thing, but then he can have as much formula as it takes for him to be full. We do this 4 times a day, with regular nursing in between and all night. And like I said, he's down from 12 ounces to between 7 and 9, without me restricting his intake at all. WooHoooo!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's great, Boon. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Oh, Boon, that's terrific. I missed your first update, and I have really been thinking about you and Moose. I'm so happy to hear he's doing well! I can believe that cutting out dairy is hard, hard, hard...good for you for doing it.
Baby smiles are the best, aren't they, Katarain?
We've been vaccinating Nathaniel on schedule, so he had his 4 month appointment last Monday. I was dreading it, but he didn't cry as much for that one as he did the 2 month...he didn't even need me to nurse him afterwards. He was a little fussy for a couple of hours afterward, but that was it. Our last Synagis shot (RSV antibodies) for the season is tomorrow--he has no reactions or fussiness for that, but last time he cried and cried.
He was 14 lbs, 10 oz. at his 4 month appointment...we're so happy. (Birth weight was 5 lbs.) The doctor was very pleased with his developmental progress, too, and thought he might be caught up by his first birthday. (Preemies are generally expected to catch up to term babies by age 2.) And he's *long.* At 4 months, he's completely out of his 3-6 month clothes. The 6 month size fits perfectly, so we've been getting 9 month stuff for summer, hoping it'll last for May-September.
Let me preface what's next by saying that I naturally wish Nathaniel had been full term. Nonetheless, his being premature has helped me to be less anxious and more at peace with his developmental progress. Since preemies tend to meet developmental milestones closer to their corrected age, and sometimes later, it's so much easier for me to just be happy with where he is and what he can do, instead of worrying about where he should be and what he should be able to do.
I worry about lots of other things, of course. I panicked today because I thought he might have a cold, and that it was my fault for letting other people hold him on Friday, even though the people in question washed and sanitized their hands first. But it looks like he's OK after all.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Wonderful news, Boon!
We just got home from an apartment-hunting trip to Oregon over the weekend. James was amazing on the airplane! He slept most of the time. I think the apartment hunting wore him out quite a bit, but he was a trooper!
Now, I just have to worry through the next week or so that he's caught a bug from the recirculated air. Every time he sneezes I think, "Oh no! I got him sick!" He's a tough guy, though, so here's hoping!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
We had a first the night before last. James slept for ten hours! TEN! It was insane. (I was feeling rather engorged by the time he woke up. ) Last night was more normal, but guess what's normal? Seven and a half hours! We are definitely blessed. We're also definitely spoiled. (I'm sure future children will not be this easy.)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
We've had a few sleepless nights, but I really think cosleeping cuts down on them significantly.
Katababy wakes up in the middle of the night hungry, so I just pull her closer and feed her. We sleep tummy to tummy, with my arm around her for protection from rolling. It's very restful. We barely have to wake up. The most disturbance is when I turn us over so that she can feed on the other side. I'm getting unbalanced!
The hardest part is getting her to go to sleep in the first place, sometimes. I've had several nights when I finally get to sleep at 5 in the morning, but then we both sleep for 8+ hours, with a few feeding breaks.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The first time my oldest slept through the night (about 7-8 hours, IIRC), I woke up in a panic.
When I went into school that day, several people asked me what we up. I pretty much grinned like an idiot all day. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Katarain: co-sleeping was the best thing we ever did. I resisted for a while because I fell for that nonsense that if you don't teach a baby to sleep in their own crib from day one they never will...but I just couldn't handle going down the hall late at night. It felt like miles. The first time I just put him in bed with me was wonderful and after that I decided I just didn't care if he ever slept in his own crib. I was too tired. :=)
Then he moved out just fine at 5 months (when he started to crawl...didn't feel safe). I'm not even going to try to put this new one in a crib for a few months.
Granted, with my first I couldn't have co-slept for a few days in the first week because I tore a back muscle (pushing) and the doc put me on some strong sleep-inducing drugs that wouldn't have been safe.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
<~ has always co-slept with the babes.
Moose gained 5 ounces in seven days, making the doctor happy enough to let us bring him back in 4 weeks for a weight check instead of next week. That was getting really, really old. He's now up to 10lbs, 14oz, 23 1/2 inches long, and happy as can be.
He's also taking less formula. He took 4 ounces today, seven yesterday, and THREE the day before. So on average, not too bad.
Unfortunately, now I'm sicker than a sick dog. Sore throat, runny nose, sinus pressure. Ick. Hope he doesn't get it. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Feel better!
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
My little one slept for five hours in a row last night and I was thrilled! It was so nice to have uninterrupted sleep again. She is only 12 days old so I feel really lucky this morning. Plus the weather is gorgeous out and she looks adorable in her little sundress. I love good days Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Congratulations on all the sleep!
And congratulations on your new baby girl, theresa.
Nathaniel has started being pretty consistent about going 7-8 hours. I don't get that much uninterrupted sleep myself, because I'm too busy enjoying the first couple of hours after he goes down for the night. Like now, for example.
Boon, hope you feel better soon!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yay Boon! I'm so glad Moose is still doing well!
Congrats theresa!!
Congrats to everyone with babies that will sleep! I'm trying really hard not to be discouraged. Beanie had lots of issues with teething and growth spurts over the last 2 months, but now that those seem to be gone for now, she's not going back to sleeping well. Two months ago (when she was 2 months old), she would sleep 4-5 hours at a stretch at night, and nap for 1-2 hours at a time. During the icky times, she would only sleep about an hour at a time at night and usually nap for about 30 mins (occasionally taking a 1-2 hour nap). For a while she even wanted to get up between 4 and 5 am. Now she's only doing 1-2 hours at a time at night and she's still doing mostly half hour naps (with maybe one 1-2 hour nap a day at most). She is really restless at night too, rolling all around and kicking in her sleep. I've pretty much adjusted to sleeping so little at night and am remarkably functional, but she really does need to sleep longer.
She's too big for the co-sleeper, so she sleeps at night in a cradle that is up against my side of the bed. I start her bedtime routine at 7pm and she is almost always asleep between 7:30 and 8. The only luck I really have for getting her to nap is putting her in her swing (that I have to leave running while she sleeps or she wakes up).
Does anyone have any ideas? If she doesn't make some progress this week, I'll talk to her doctor about it at her 4 month check-up next week.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Have you tried a bouncer with a vibrating setting? James sometimes naps pretty soundly in his vibrating bouncer.
You probably wouldn't like my suggestion for the nighttime sleeping, because James doesn't sleep in our room. It helps me a lot that I can't hear every tiny little noise James makes in the night. I'm sure he wakes up occasionally in the night, but I don't hear him until he actually fully wakes up because he's hungry (lately that's been after 7-8 hours or more). Also, my doctor told me that at around four months it can actually help a baby to understand about sleeping through the night if you let them cry it out. (She said before four months they are usually too young to figure out how to calm themselves down.) It sounds harsh, but a friend of mine swears by it. Her son sleeps ten hours in the night now, and it only took a couple nights for him to figure it out.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
For an alternate opinion, I don't want my kids to "understand" that if they wake up scared or lonely and call for mommy and daddy they'll be ignored. Not when they're 4 months, not when they're 4 years, not when they're 14. Heck, if they wake up after a nightmare at 44 and need to talk to someone I hope they'll know they can call me. Fortunately, we lucked into a doctor that is compatable with our philosophy on this one, because any doctor that suggested ignoring a crying baby would immediately cease to be my or my child's doctor.
It isn't unusual for a 4 month old to wake up frequently. Some don't, but lots do. If it's really a problem for you -- if you can't function because of it -- then you need to make changes, but otherwise it really isn't something you need to "fix." It's just part of nighttime parenting.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
So far, she's only fallen asleep in her bouncer once. She doesn't seem to particularly like the vibrate function, so that usually stays off. She loves to be in there with the top part (it's an aquarium bouncer) because she loves to kick the fish.
At the moment, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of crying it out. I don't mind letting her whine a little bit, but I'm not comfortable letting her cry. I may change my mind later, but right now I'm not ready for it. I guess my concern with her current sleeping arrangement is that it seems like she has regressed and I don't know why. If she'd been sleeping like this all along, it wouldn't really be an issue for me.
There is an odd thing that she's done several times recently (maybe once a week). She will literally start screaming in her sleep. She normally wakes up very happy, but in these cases it almost seems like she's still asleep (her eyes are closed and and she doesn't really respond to me). It can take me several (maybe 5) minutes to get her to calm down, during which time she's screaming her little lungs out. She really doesn't cry much at all, so this screaming is disconcerting. I can't figure out if she's hurting or having a nightmare or what. Has anyone else's baby done this kind of thing?
In fun cuteness, the last week or so she's been learning to stick her tongue out and loves getting kisses.
[ April 21, 2008, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Just to clarify, I don't let my son cry it out at night. My doctor was just offering information to us because I asked a question about it. She was not even suggesting we do it.
Also, the friend I have that used this method is a very caring mother. I was not suggesting neglecting your baby. Trying to help your child get a good night's sleep (meaning solid chunks of time...more than just an hour or two at a time) is important--not only for the health of the parents, but for the health of the child. And this method is a viable one.
I'm really struggling right now because I don't want to start an argument. Maybe I should have refrained from posting, but I feel like I was misunderstood. Just like any caring mother, I also want my child to know that I will be there when he needs comfort in the night at any age. However, I also need to teach him the difference between night and day--for his health and development.
Edit: I was formulating this post for a long time (I'm slow. ) Ludosti posted while I was writing this.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
((hansenj)) Certainly you're a caring mother who loves your son! I highly doubt that dkw would suggest otherwise! I know there is a lot of controversy between "crying it out" and other methods of helping your child sleep (I forget what's it's termed) and I certainly didn't want to start an argument. I'm just looking for suggestions in the hopes of finding something to try. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
hansenj, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you are not a caring mother. (edit: and I'm sorry that I was not more clear on that in my lst post.) I'm also sure that most parents who use cry-it-out methods honestly think they are doing the best thing for their kids. I happen to think they're wrong, (and I'm sure they think I am too!) but I don't think that means they aren't loving parents. So I don't think I misunderstood you. I just disagree with the idea that letting babies cry teaches them anything they need to know. I think that comforting them back to sleep is different enough than daytime play to sufficently teach the difference between night and day. But I don't think you shouldn't have posted your opinion, unless you think that someone disagreeing with you is unbearable, (in which case you probably shouldn't be on internet forums at all. ).
ludosti, changes in sleep patterns are also normal. Teeething, growth spurts, working on new milestones like rolling over, crawling, etc., all affect babies' sleep. Even folks who use a sleep training method usually find that they have to re-do it when something changes.
The screaming while not-really-awake thing might be night terrors. They scare the heck out of parents, but older kids who have them don't seem to remember them in the morning, so hopefully babies don't either. Nursing worked the best for me to calm John when he had them. The other time he woke up yelling was his one and only ear infection, but with that he actually woke up -- with the night terrors he still seemed to be asleep, even if he opened his eyes.
[ April 21, 2008, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I have had a child who would not sleep without crying. Even in our bed. We did CIO with her and that is the only thing that worked. I do not appreciate being told I am wrong for that.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I did and do apologize for not phrasing my statement more politely. I will not apologize for disagreeing with you. I think you're wrong. You think I'm wrong. I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:But I don't think you shouldn't have posted your opinion, unless you think that someone disagreeing with you is unbearable, (in which case you probably shouldn't be on internet forums at all. [Wink] ).
So true.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
OK, here's a new question (though somewhat related to sleeping).
As I have mentioned, James has been sleeping very well as of late ( !). However, as a result of this, he has been having fewer feedings during the day. I am under the impression that he should have 8-10 feedings per day, and he is now getting six or seven (sometimes eight). Is this likely to be a problem? I don't have a scale at home, so he hasn't been weighed since his two-month appointment, but it seems like he's growing. And he seems content most of the time, although he has been fussier than usual in the last couple days. James is now 11 weeks old, so still very young. When, typically, are feedings supposed to slow down like this?
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I read an interesting blog article that talked about how some babies cry to release tension, while for other babies, crying builds tension. The first type can (needs to?) cry or fuss to sleep. Even if the parent is right there soothing, etc., the baby needs to cry. For the second type, crying will only lead to sleeping after the baby is completely exhausted, so CIO is pretty ineffective.
I don't know if it's true or not, but it helped me understand why some people swear by CIO. If their baby is programmed to need to release tension that way, then crying to sleep not only would work, it would actually help the baby to sleep.
I don't like for Nathaniel to cry alone. If I've done everything I can and he's still crying, I rock him or pat him or bounce him or nurse him or whatever I can do to let him know I'm there. I'm quite aware, though, that I'm very lucky in that this rarely happens with him.
ludosti, one thing I've read is that at 4 months babies start being very distractible during daytime nursing sessions because so much is going on that they're suddenly interested in. Nighttime is dark and boring--the perfect time to catch up on all those calories they missed when they were more interested in other things. I know our least successful nursing sessions are the ones when Daddy is around. I've also found that I *need* to read or watch TV when nursing. If I'm looking at him, he'll want to pull off and start "talking" to me. It's very cute, but I want him to eat!
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I was just reading The Nursing Mother's Companion for that very question, hansenj. It said a baby who sleeps all night should nurse at least seven times a day.
Also, how many wet diapers is he having? According to kellymom (don't have time to look up the link right now, sorry), that's the way to tell if a baby is getting enough. I think the number is 5-6 very wet diapers a day.
[ April 22, 2008, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Liz B ]
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I think every child is different and that what works with one kid may not work with another. For example, my baby won't drink milk unless it has strawberry quik in it. People gave me lots of suggestions to get her to drink regular milk and they did not work. I tried very, very hard to get her to drink regular milk and with this specific child, it is either strawberry milk or no milk. When other parents tell me I am wrong and if I just did x, she would drink milk just fine, it is extremely frustrating. And I am sure that for other children, x would work perfectly. But unless you have actually raised my child, telling me my solution is wrong is upsetting.
As far as number of feedings, mine was almost always at 5-6 a day, 5-10 minutes per session. She was gaining weight and had lots of wet diapers so my doctor was fine with that.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Your little one sounds a lot like Lego was at that age, ludosti. I tried everything to get him to sleep better (and take longer naps, but that was a lower priority). I finally, finally broke his habit of waking 3-4 times per night when he was about 18 months old by doing the cry-it-out method. I hated every moment of those first few days. Now, when he wakes, I do go in and check on him because I am confident there's something that needs to be taken care of. But I am equally sure that his frequent night wakings were a "trained" behavior—he kept doing it because he was getting what he wanted from me. Not all babies fall into this category, of course, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't try the cry-it-out thing again before my baby reached 12 months, and only as a last resort even then.
You might want to look into Dr. Sears' advice on eliminating frequent night wakings. It ultimately didn't really work for me, but it might for you, and I thought it seemed "kinder" than a lot of the other advice out there on this topic. One thing he said was that frequent feeders—and babies who are consistently nursed as a first resort for comfort as well as for nourishment—tend to wake more often at night.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: For an alternate opinion, I don't want my kids to "understand" that if they wake up scared or lonely and call for mommy and daddy they'll be ignored.
I know this has already been addressed, but this is such an incredibly twisted misstatement of "ferberizing" (or "CIO" or whatever it's being called this week) that I am stunned, amazed, and disappointed.
It is perfectly possible to disagree with other parents' methods without demonizing them.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:You think I'm wrong.
I think you're wrong for thinking I'm wrong. I don't think you're wrong for deciding that it's not a solution that works for your family-- which is what you seem to be deciding about my decision.
quote:It is perfectly possible to disagree with other parents' methods without demonizing them.
Indeed.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
1) It was not a description of "ferberizing" or any other method. It was my reaction to the specific doctors statement that leaving a baby to cry will help them "understand" sleeping. I disagreed. Still do. If you (pl) call that demonizing, I'm sorry, but I disagree with that characterization too. I don't think demons are "loving, considerate parents who are doing what they think is best for their babies," which I believe are the words I used in my earlier post.
2) I have absolutely no idea what "works" for anyone else's baby, and have made no statements or judgements to that effect. My belief that not responding to a baby's cries at night is wrong has nothing to do with effectiveness or lack thereof.
3) There are lots of people on Hatrack who I think are wrong about a lot of things, but still consider friends. I believe the feeling is mutual in most cases. There are differences of opinon where I don't consider people with opinions opposite mine to be wrong -- for example, I loathe green peppers, but don't consider people who like them wrong. This doesnt' fall into that category. This is closer to "if you voted for George Bush, I think you made the wrong decision." Doesn't mean I can't like you or respect your opinions on other issues, does mean I think you're wrong on this one.
4) I'm trying to find a way out of this mess without it sounding like "Fine I just won't say anything more" in a huff. I can't. And honestly, I don't want to. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear, if my posts are being misunderstood. To the extent that it's not a misunderstanding but a straight disagreement I would be sorry to lose friendship over it, but apparently not sorry enough to not give my opinion in a discussion of the subject. I wouldn have been sorry if hansenj decided not to post her thoughts because there would be disagreement, and I feel the same way about mine.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
If it's okay, I'd like to talk about the cry-it-out method and what I thought of it. I do think there was something Lego needed to learn: that he was capable of going back to sleep without help when he stirred in the night and nothing was wrong. It's an essential life skill, and it was important for him to learn both for his health and well-being and for mine. Once we taught that skill, I was able to soften my approach. Now he knows that when something is wrong, he can call for me and I will come. He also knows how to go back to sleep when something wakes him and nothing is wrong.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Brinestone, that very closely describes my experience with the method as well.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
If my baby wakes up at night and I go to her, she cries louder and harder and longer. My presence is not welcome. If I don't come, she usually stops crying within a minute. I didn't set out to use CIO, it just was the only option. But, there are different cries. Last night, for example, she was clearly crying because of teething. That I can deal with and giving her tylenol and rubbing her back helps her. She's a bit older so it is a little easier to distinguish her cries, but even when she was little, there were cries that I ignored and cries I didn't at night.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I'm cosleeping, so when my baby wakes up in the middle of the night, I'm right there for her. However, I have noticed that sometimes she stirs without wanting to feed and if I wait a little while without bothering her, she'll settle down and go right back to sleep. And sometimes she flails her little arms in her sleep, and it will help if I hold her arm down gently to keep her from flailing and sometimes she doesn't need the help. And eventually she'll want to eat, so I let her.
I suppose that if she were sleeping by herself that those times that I don't try to bother her when she stirs are the times that she would put herself back to sleep. And come to think of it, when she's sleeping during the day, that's exactly what she does--until she needs something.
I'll admit that I have had an aversion to the cry it out method, but I think that's because of a general misconception of what it really is and how it is properly done. Some parents might try the cry it out method and think that it means they have to ignore every cry for way too long of a time period. But on another forum where this has come up, people who know took the time to explain what it really is and how it's done and it is much less objectionable to me now. And while I would never consider it for my infant, I can foresee it being necessary for my daughter when she gets much older. Others, of course, would have different needs and experiences.
ETA: And I will say that wanting to instill a sense of security in my daughter, that she knows I am there for her, is extremely important to me, and a large reason why the "cry it out" method, at least the perception it gives from the name alone, is so negative in my eyes. It would take a very extreme set of circumstances for me to ever consider trying it, even with its correct definition and method. That's simply how I feel, and I don't want to deny that feeling. I'd rather hold her forever if that's what she needs.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Aerin slept through the night at 2 months adjusted. It was something I really worked at. Her schedule was grueling - between the medications, marathon feedings, doctor's appointments, etc., I was a wreck. I knew that I needed to get 6 hours of sleep per day to be able to deal with it. Mostly, though, good sleep is vital for micropreemies. Letting her cry was never an option for me. Even if I wanted to (which I didn't), she would alarm if she cried for too long or got too upset.
Here's how I did it. First, I didn't use a nightlight. When it was shluffy night-night time (i.e. bedtime), Aerin's room was completely dark. I have excellent night vision (probably because I have very light eyes and large pupils), so I could see fine and it made a huge difference. Second, I bought an iHome and put 16 hours of soft music on a playlist. I would rock Aerin until she got sleepy, then put her in the bassinet. It had a vibrate feature that she loved.
I never gave up. Once we were in her room, that was it. We stayed there until she was asleep (or well on her way). I think that taught her that when we're in her room and it's dark and there's music, it's sleepy time.
Now, there were a couple of things that moms of term babies cannot do that helped me. I put Aerin to sleep on her stomach. She was on an apnea monitor, so I could do this safely. They had frequently kept her on her stomach in the NICU and PCN (because she breathed so much better in that position), so she was used to it. Additionally, Aerin was already on a schedule when she came home from the hospital, so we just modified that slightly.
Aerin also never went through any stage where she stopped sleeping through the night. Our routine now is great - I rock her for 3-6 songs, put her in the crib, cover her with her blanket, and that's it.
I'm sure part of it, too, is just luck. Aerin likes to sleep (like her momma ).
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
One thing I'm sure I'll have to work on is getting her onto a schedule. We've pretty much fallen into one, but we're a household of laissez-faire schedules. We sleep when we want or need to. We like shopping, working, or playing in the middle of the night. She has fit perfectly into our family, so far, with sleepless nights sometimes where she sleeps all day, and nights when she sleeps all night and well, she usually sleeps a lot during the day no matter what. Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: If it's okay, I'd like to talk about the cry-it-out method and what I thought of it. I do think there was something Lego needed to learn: that he was capable of going back to sleep without help when he stirred in the night and nothing was wrong. It's an essential life skill, and it was important for him to learn both for his health and well-being and for mine. Once we taught that skill, I was able to soften my approach. Now he knows that when something is wrong, he can call for me and I will come. He also knows how to go back to sleep when something wakes him and nothing is wrong.
Ruth said exactly what I wanted to say. Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Oh, and about my feeding frequency question. I'm glad to hear that the Nursing Mother's Companion says that seven is an ok number. Also, I change James with every feeding, and the diapers are usually very wet. Thanks for the info!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Thanks for the tons of ideas! I should be more diligent with making sure she's eating enough during the day so her waking at night is not so much from a need to eat (though obviously she's not old enough that she should go all night without eating). Then I can be more comfortable waiting longer to respond to her restlessness (though I'm uncomfortable letting her cry at this time). She seems to me to be the type of baby who gets more and more agitated by crying. She is very mellow and rarely cries (she certainly expresses displeasure but that sounds different than crying), so when she cries something is wrong that needs addressing.
Last night she mostly slept in 2 hours chunks and as already had a 2 hour nap today, so perhaps I just need to be more patient while she works things out on her own.
Edit: left out an important negative
[ April 23, 2008, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
We have a night time pattern and part of it is pushing on a gloworm, which lights up and sings to her. Sometimes in the middle of the night, we'll wake up, here baby whimper and then hear the gloworm start to sing and baby stops whimpering. I think she started hitting the gloworm herself at maybe 9 months (so a bit older then yours), but we started the routine earlier.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
When our son was almost 6 months, we taught him to self-soothe by putting him down drowsy but awake and then going back in every 3 minutes to pat his back, shush him, and basically reassure him that we were still there. The point wasn't to get him to sleep through the night -- it was to get him to fall asleep without my breast. It was a hard night, but after that sleep just got so much better. He didn't need my breast to go back to sleep every time he started to drift out of sleep in the middle of the night. He also napped better. (If he got hysterical during this process, we went in and picked him up 3 minutes or not.) The 3 minute intervals were perfect -- just long enough to let him work on sleeping by himself but not so long that he felt abandoned. Or at least, I very much hope that was the case. I wanted him to know mommy and daddy are always there but the answer to what you want is no. I'm sure he didn't quite grasp it like that, but he did learn to fall asleep on his own after one night of it and he continued to make his needs known -- night or day.
I guess I'm a moderate on the sleep thing. I agree with dkw that babies need to know that mommy and daddy are there for them. I also agree with those who say sleep is very important for the entire family, including the baby.
For the record, I wouldn't personally do the middle ground approach I used before about 5 or 6 months. Before that age a baby may not even have mastered object permanence -- which means they don't know you exist if you leave the room. (Many developmental checklists call this "looking for dropped objects.")
My only problem with strict CIO methods are that I sometimes see them being used on very young babies (like newborns) to force them onto a schedule that is convenient for the parent rather than to meet the needs of the baby.
On the flip side, my only problem with strict attachment parenting is that I sometimes see toddlers who still can't sleep because their parents never did make this a priority.
But extremes of anything can be a problem. Which is why I'm a die-hard moderate. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Christine, I think that makes a lot of sense, and is a perfect compromise. I would have no problem whatsoever with using that method myself.
Posted by roxy (Member # 3416) on :
Wow! I've been gone for a while. Baby Taylor was born back in November. He's been sleeping in his own room now for almost a month! I always thought he'd have such a hard time with it, but I think the problem was with me I didn't want to be without my little boy. The first time I tried putting him down he slept for eight hours straight Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's great. Welcome back, and congrats!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Congrats roxy!!
Beanie had her 4 month check-up yesterday. Things went much more smoothly with my extra planning. Doc says she looks great - she's up to almost 14 lbs and is just over 24" long. He suggested seeing if she'll sleep longer at night if we put her cradle in her room. I'll probably give it a try starting this weekend and see how things work over the next week or so. I'm not ready to let her cry (and he never suggested that), but I know that I can wake up and be to her room quickly so she won't. Too bad her teeth are moving again so she's more unhappy.
I have kind of a weird carseat issue. I have one of the Graco snugride carseats in the center backseat of a 2004 Camry (no LATCH in the center seat). It was inspected before we brought her home, so it's supposedly installed properly. I didn't seem to have any issues with it until a couple weeks ago. The problem I'm seeing is that her seat seems to tilt slightly to one side. One time, pulling into our driveway it even shifted to be at about a 45 angle. I've checked and re-checked it a couple times since then, but it still seems to tip slightly (though I haven't seen any more scary 45 degree tips). It's like the upwards pull from the shoulder portion of the seatbelt, combined with the slipperiness of plastic on the velour seat surface and her weight, is making it tip (the base seems to sit nice and flat on its own). Even though the belt reel itself locks, I've installed the "I" clip, since the buckle can slide freely along the belt. Does anyone know what I am doing wrong? There's no place in the town where I live that I can take it to have someone else check it again. I'm willing to drive the 30 miles or so to get it checked again somewhere else if it comes down to it, but I'm hoping there's a simple solution that I've overlooked.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It details types of seatbelts, and proper locking clip usage. Even if you don't need a locking clip, using one may be the solution to tilting. See if any of the tips on that page help.
Another solution you may consider is going ahead and switching to a convertible car seat; a different distribution of her weight with the different seat may help. And at 4 months many babies are outgrowing or close to outgrowing the SnugRide by height anyway (it's outgrown when the top of the head is less than 1 inch from the top of the shell.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I am so enjoying having my baby home, btw. I keep meaning to post pictures but the time holding her is so precious after two days of not being able to hold her except to feed her, and two nights away from her! I don't even want to put her down!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
If Vana is still around here she's a carseat safety tech.
Another carseat issue -- be sure and pull out all the padding every now and then and check to see if the belts are worn. We took our cushions off to clean underneath after an episode of stomach flu (five episodes of vomitting in the 90 minutes it took to get to our destination, yuck) and found that the belt was torn almost a third of the way through, as if it had been rubbing on something or caught on something. We couldn't figure out what it could have been rubbing on, but the company sent us new belts and we check them occaisionally now. The seat was only 6 months old.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The BabyCenter Car Safety Board is also frequented by techs who are happy to help; if you post pictures there they will even give you their suggestions on adjustments you can make to get a better install.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Thanks for the link kq (and I'm so glad you're getting lots of snuggle time with Maggie)! It has an example of the same thing that's happening and suggests using the locking clip without activating the seat belt retractor lock to fix the problem. As soon as she takes her nap I'll go out and adjust her seat! I'll check the belts also (good suggestion dkw).
She's still got several (about 4-5) inches to go until being too tall (she's still small enough for the straps in the lowest position also) for the carseat. So, I've still got a little while until I need a new seat, but I should probably start looking. Does anyone have any recommendations for good convertible seats?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes!
Please consider a HWH (higher weight harnessing) convertible! We have Radians and love them! The Radian 65 is $200 and lasts most kids in the harness until age 6 or 7 (some later.) It harnesses to 65 lbs. (There is also the Radian 80, which goes to 80 lbs., but you only need that if you have a very chunky kid or if you like the patterns available better-- which is why we have it for Bridey-- because she likes PINK. But it's more expensive, and like I said, most kids will outgrow even the 65 by height around or before the time they hit the weight limit.)
The Britax HWH convertibles are also good choices. Very expensive, though.
Then there's the Evenflo Triumph Advanced, which many parents love, harnesses to 50 lbs., has an infinite harness adjuster so the straps are ALWAYS at the perfect height (and can even be used for multiple kids without rethreading) and is only about $150.
Oh, and there's a new one, the TrueFit, that has some nifty features, but it's JUST released so while some people are saying "love it", there's not enough experiences out there to know.
Now, if you'd prefer lower cost points, the Cosco Scenara is about $40, and we LOVED it for extended rear-facing with Bridey. It goes RF to 35 lbs, same as more expensive convertibles, and works well for most kids until at least age 2 RF. It is outgrown fairly quickly forward facing because of the lower top harness slots, but it can RF a good long time and then you can get something like the Nautilus (which is FF only but harnesses to 65 lbs., then converts to a good high-back THEN low-back booster, and is only $150. So between the two seats you'd only be spending a total of less than $200 and that would get you to the end of car seat days!)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
In my state, we have to keep a child in the booster seat until 8 years or 80 lbs so we went with a convertible that went up to 100 lbs just so we were covered. It's a Safety First and is working just fine for us in its forward facing car seat capacity. The Britex were just too expensive for me, although I understand they are very good.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The 3-in-1s can be great rear-facing-- most go to at least 33 lbs.-- but forward-facing the problem with them is that they are often outgrown (harness-wise) before the child is really ready for a booster (experts say not before 6 for a booster is ideal, because of the way hips develop, but at least 5 means most kids are ready and able to sit correctly in a booster-- which must be done ALL THE TIME for a booster to be safe-- though of course some kids may be ready earlier, 4 years old is the absolute earliest that a booster is recommended) and sometimes outgrown by height before the 40 lb. weight limit is even reached (since the top setting on most of them cannot be used as a harness slot, only in booster mode, they mostly have pretty low slots, really.) The 100 lb. limit is decent for a booster-- but the 40 lb. harness limit could definitely be improved upon.
That said, it can be EXCELLENT for extended rear-facing, as I said.
(I've been doing a LOT of research on seats. Can you tell?)
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Okay, so I'm not a mommy with a new baby. But I've been taking care of a six-month-old this week for a friend--her day care provider is on vacation. He is just so gosh-darned adorable that I had to post something about it! Right now he's gurgling, cooing and enjoying his feet. He's been teething but you'd hardly know it he's so good-natured and mellow. Well, you know it by the drooling. He's a bib an hour kinda boy.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Awww!
We don't even bother with bibs for drooling, though-- I tend to just take of the shirt and wipe them down periodically when they drool!
Maggie is having a sleepy day. I keep looking at her little feet and they are SO LONG! That ultrasound we had back in Dec. when we saw the huge feet sure played out! I'm glad I didn't bother buying newborn socks; she fits perfectly in the 0-9 month socks I got! Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Can anyone suggest one of those soft teethers that you can put in the fridge that isn't made in china?
With all of the lead scares, I'm not keen on giving my baby something to put in her mouth made in china.
ETA: Made in china but tested for lead and other toxins would be okay.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Quite honestly, I don't know. But I'll tell you what the best thing was for our kids-- get a baby washcloth, fold it into a little rectangle, get it wet, wring it out so it's damp, not completely wet, and freeze it. It's soft when frozen still, but very cold, and quite chew-able. (Of course don't leave them alone with it.)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Thanks
Katababy isn't teething yet, I just want to be prepared.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, that's a good thing!
My kids never liked the gel teethers much, but they loved the washcloths. I just kept a couple in the freezer at all times. The other thing they liked was mesh fresh food feeders with frozen cantaloupe or other fruit in it. That makes a huge sticky mess when the juice runs down their face, though. Thinking about it, frozen banana might be a better choice-- still a sticky mess but not quite as juicy. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We also did the slices of frozen fruit, once John was eating solids. But his very favoite teether was this one from discovery toys. It's made in Italy. It was a gift and I thought it was the most ridiculous looking thing I'd ever seen (and Bob thought it was a dog toy) but John just loved it. He's started pulling it out of the drawer and chomping on it every now and then again -- I think he might be started to get his second year molars.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Beanie likes when we refrigerate her pacifier (those blue ones like they give you in the hospital). She sometimes like the washcloth like kq describes and she loves the RazBerry teether, which we also keep in the fridge (and occasionally pop it in the freezer for a few minutes). I'm planning to get some of those mesh bag feeders here soon. A friend of mine said they work just as well with ice cubes (if a bit messy), since (for allergy reasons) we're holding off on introducing foods for at least 4 more months (8, if we can do it).
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
How do you know whether you should give your baby a pacifier?
I've had moments when I think she might be using me as a pacifier, but it's not for long, and then she usually just drops off to sleep. Sometimes she sucks on her fingers/fist, and sometimes she even manages to suck her thumb. But that's usually only when she's hungry and there's no nipple around yet.
She's a very happy baby without it, but I wonder sometimes if she might be soothed by it when she isn't actually hungry.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Whether you should or not is one of those fairly personal decisions and can be hotly debated. For me, I didn't mind giving her something. Having the comfort seems to make a difference when she's going to sleep (which is hard for her when she's teething and is where the refrigerated pacifier comes in). I can tell immediately when she's switching from eating to comfort mode on me. She also enjoys sticking her fingers, thumb, and or fist in her mouth.
If you think she's happy without it, she probably is, though if you want to try one, I think that is fine too. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
If she eats until she throws up and still wants to suck, she probably needs a paci. That's my rule of thumb. If she's happy with her fist I'd say there's no reason to give a paci. Emma only needed a paci for a few weeks until she managed to get the fist in the mouth on a regular basis. Bridget used a paci for about 7 months before she gave it up (and when they give them up I make them all disappear!)
Maggie is a BIG sucker. We use the RazBaby Keep-it-Kleen pacis, which we picked up on sale to see if they would work, and we are LOVING them.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
hmm.. katababy spits up a lot. I wonder if that's why. She tends to get a lot of gas, too.
I figure that it's better to use a pacifier than to let the child get addicted to sucking their thumb. You can take a pacifier away, you can't take away the thumb.. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
See, I'm the opposite. I think a thumb is better than a paci because the thumb lets them self-soothe without having to have anything on hand; if they get dependent on the paci, heaven forbid they all get lost or are in the wash at the same time... I don't see stopping thumb sucking as a big priority issue, Bridget did it and has mostly stopped on her own, without us ever saying anything about it.
That's why all parents are different. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Sophie never sucked at all; Haley was interested in her own thumb from about 3 months to about 7 months, but then gave it up.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Well, that's something to consider as well, kq. I haven't made up my mind, which probably means katababy will decide for me. It's definitely not something I feel strongly about either way.
On another note, my aunt sent me the most beautiful quilt. It's the first one I've ever had, although I suppose technically it's Katababy's, but it's up to me to take care of it until she's all grown. It's pink and yellow with cool designs and holly-hobby like girls in the squares. I absolutely love it!
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
N-derdog is 15 days old (he'd b e two days old if he had come on his due date), and we've had all sorts of fun with breastfeeding. At this point the LLL-recommended lactation consultant recommends we go to pumping almost exclusively for a little while, which has raised mom's spirits. The little one has no problems getting food (and hasn't all along), and is really (so far) all we could hope for. He cries, sleeps, eats and needs changing, but there is nothing of the extraordinary. It seems like he gives us 2 3-4 hour stretches of sleep every other night. We won't ever complain about that, considering the stories we hear/read.
I may be a dad, but he's a beautiful kid that I can't stop smooching.
I go back to work for a partial week on Monday, and it's going to be hard to leave him.
-Bok
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Congrats!!! I can't wait to see pictures!! I hope the breastfeeding works out eventually! I'm so glad she has a good lactation consultant to help out! Because of the timing of Beanie's birth, there weren't any at the hospital while I was there. I was in absolute agony for the first couple weeks and was almost ready to give up before my mom found me a lifesaver. I'm sorry you have to go back to work on Monday. It's wonderful that you got to be with him for the first couple weeks! I'm trying hard not to be jealous of your sleep and the time you got to spend with your little one (my hubby had to go back to work about a week after we came home) - I'll just be super happy for you two instead!
I moved Beanie's cradle into her room on Friday. I was a silly blubbering wreck after putting her to bed, but she did fine with the switch (though when I first started putting her to bed, she looked around with this look on her face like "this isn't where I go to bed!"). She's still only sleeping in mostly 2 hour chunks (and waking up around 5am), but I'm sure it'll get better. The fun upside of having her in her room is that dad looks in on her more now (he stays up later than I do, so several times when I've heard her crying, I go in to find dad with her). At least she's taken a few hour long naps the past few days - it's almost impossible for me to get any extra sleep (or anything else done) when she only naps for 30 minutes.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie slept from 10:30 until almost 5:30 last night. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Woohoo!!! That is so awesome!! (and I'm, again, so jealous )
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
My son wouldn't even take a pacifier so it may the choice easy. He used my breasts as a paci for a few months but outgrew that. He never sucked his fingers.
I think if I had to choose, I'd rather a baby suck a thumb or finger than a paci. Most kids will stop sucking their fingers on their own if you leave them alone and meanwhile, it's theirs to control and to give up when they are ready. With the paci, you have the early problems of them falling out and needing to be reinserted through the night. As time goes on, there seems to be a lot of temptation to misuse them. I've seen toddlers with pacis in their mouths all the time -- playtime...anytime. It's harder to play with a thumb in your mouth.
But like I said, my first didn't even give me the option so it was kind of a moot point. I'm sure there's something this baby could do that would make me decide to try her on a paci but I don't know what it is yet. Comfort nursing doesn't really bother me that much.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I had a really heavy supply so if she sucked, there was food. She didn't like that, so she wouldn't comfort nurse, but she really wanted to suck. Of course, weaning her off the pacifier is probably not going to be all that easy.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Maybe, maybe not. I had one who suddenly gave up the pacifier at 4 months for no apparent reason, one who gave it up gradually by the time he was about 10 months (with some encouragement from us), and one who never much liked one to begin with.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
scholarette, that's exactly how Bridey was. She gave up the paci on her own at 7 1/2 or so months. At that point she switched to her thumb, but she gave up the thumb for the most part by 1 1/2, although if she's VERY tired or hurt she'll still suck it occasionally. (I still bite mine, I know how she feels...)
Emma was a comfort nurser anyway. If that meant she ate so much she threw up, that was that.
Maggie seems to be the same way as Emma was.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
What's the deal with "using [me] as a pacifier"? I hear people talk about that a lot like it's the worst thing ever (other places), but is there really anything that bad about it? Baby K took a pacifier for about two days before rejecting it (hates bottles too) and now likes sucking her fingers and thumb and what I suppose you would call comfort nursing as well. If it doesn't bother me, is it still an Absolute Bad Thing? I suppose there could be some medical/developmental reason it's bad, but I can't think of any. And why do people get upset about it?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It can be physically uncomfortable for some women, and others may find it emotionally uncomfortable -- or simply awkward -- to have the baby attached all the time.
Lissande: It's really all down to how the mom feels about it. Honestly, there is no developmental reason for a baby or even a toddler not to comfort nurse. I tend to lean towards attachment-style parenting in my choices and in my opinion, there's no way to spoil a young baby. Any amount of touching, comfort, etc. that they want is good and healthy and teaches them that mommy is there for them.
On the other hand, I've heard of babies with such an overwhelmingly strong need to suck that you can't get up and go to the bathroom so....you just kind of got to weigh your needs and the baby's needs. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Thanks, rivka and Christine. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some vital piece of information. I've read or heard comments here and there all treating it as an obvious bad thing (my mom: "You have to put a stop to that") and I was always left wondering why it should be that harmful, if K and I are both happy. It's not like she is attached all the time, anyway. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, the nurse in the hospital told me, "Don't let her fall asleep nursing!" I just smiled and said, "Okay."
I mean, it's one thing if she's falling asleep before she gets nutritive milk. It's quite another if she sucks 7 minutes, falls asleep, and wants to comfort nurse for a few minutes.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My memory of the first few weeks of nursing is OWWWW! Even if my baby had wanted comfort nursing, I could not have handled the pain. Within 24 hours of having her, I had horrible cracked and bleeding nipples. I had to ice them before every feeding in order to keep the pain down. And based on every nurse and lactation consultant, I was in the right position- though Bin was playing with her tongue.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Yeah, for me it's about being able to get up and do things like use the bathroom. And sometimes she gnaws more than sucks for food, and that hurts. I don't mind a lot, I'm really all for attachment parenting. If she needs it, she can have it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
*cannot count the times she's gone to the bathroom while nursing a baby or toddler*
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
You are more adept than I. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It helps to wear skirts.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Amen.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Also, you must master the one-handed hand wash.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Granted, I've worn my sleeping baby (in her sling) to run to the bathroom and that worked ok. But I can't quite imagine trying to nurse at the same time. Color me impressed!
I also lean towards attachment parenting, and while I don't have a problem with nursing for comfort, I don't want to be her only source of comfort. She also sometimes gets weird when she's falling asleep at night. Shortly after switching from eating to comfort nursing, she often gets really wiggly and pinchy and so it just works better for both of us if I pop her off, give her her pacifier (all that wiggling usually stops immediately), and lay her down.
In happy news, Beanie did a 3.5 hour sleep stretch this morning (granted she woke up every hour for the first few hours of the night). Too bad she decided to be up at 4:30. I'd woken up at 4 and realized she'd been asleep since 12:30, so I went and peeked in at her to make sure she hadn't stopped breathing or anything (paranoia, I know). So, of course, as I'm just drifting off again, she starts making noise. When she started to cry I tried feeding her and putting her back to bed, but she was convinced that it was time to get up (I gave up trying to get her to go back to sleep after 45 minutes). She was also wonderful for grandma today (this was the first time I'd left her at grandma's house, though she'd spent time with grandma at our house before and time with me at grandma's house) while I went for a doctor's appointment! She went for almost an hour and a half with no whining or crying or anything! It may seem silly, but she's been pretty clingy lately, so I was worried she'd scream the whole time I was gone. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie is two weeks old today! And her umbilical stump fell off. Both a happy occasion (no more being careful of it) and a sad one (she's not so tiny anymore! I think she's grown about 1/2 an inch, too, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's gained at least 1/2 a lb. past her birth weight, and she LOST half a lb. off it before leaving the hospital... Her head is definitely bigger than it was.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I have a Harmony Medela pump, and I bought some extra bottles that fit it made by Lansinoh.
I don't have any nipples that fit those bottles, though, and Medela doesn't seem to carry any. There weren't any Lansinoh nipples where I bought the bottles, either. I have a playtex drop-in's bottle with one nipple (it's supposed to be like mother) that is too big. I can use that bottle until I get some smaller nipples.
So any suggestions for where I can get nipples to fit those bottles? It took me less than 10 minutes to pump 5 ounces on one side (the other side didn't pump well at all)... so does that mean I should get a fast, medium, or slow flow?
I want my baby to prefer the breast, and after 10 weeks of establishing good nursing, her doctor says that there won't be any nipple confusion. I would be very upset if she suddenly would only take the bottle. That's only to be used when I'm not available. I can work mostly from home, but I'm going to start going in to the office for a couple of hours a few times a week. So when I'm home, I'm going to nurse as usual.
Any suggestions?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I like variable flow nipples, if available. But if you want baby to have to work for the milk, get slow flow.
Having looked at the bottles, they come with collars that look like they should fit most standard nipples. I'd buy a few kinds and see which ones fit.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Some of my kids nursed for comfort. Constant snacking isn't so much of a problem, but I draw the line when I become a chew toy.
Our #5 kid, Moose, teethed early and started chewing. He weaned that day.
I prefer binkies to fingers--you can't sterilize fingers.
Beyond orthodontic concerns, I'm not sure why it's so important to get kids OFF binkies/fingers by a certain age.
I was a hardliner about no binkies/fingers after 1 year old with my first two, and it seems like once you take away one crutch, they just find another.
For instance, my oldest daughter (sucks her fingers) is 6, very bright, but STILL sucks her fingers. Nagging doesn't work.
My oldest was weaned off binkies and bottles, but took to stealing my underwear and dragging it around the house.
I'd rather have the embarrassment of my toddler with a constant pacifier, than my toddler dragging my most colorful and silky underthings *ahem* through the house when company's over.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I cure biting by immediate removal of the child, saying "No" sternly, placing them on the floor or somewhere else safe, and walking away for a minute. It has never taken more than a day for them to learn not to bite me.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
I tried that. That worked with my daughters; two of them nursed past 12 months without biting me.
And I tried that several times when Moose had teeth only on the bottom.
After telling him no and placing him on the floor, he would promptly throw a fit and fall in it, heartbroken at my rejection of him.
Then he'd refuse to nurse for 24-36 hours, crying in hunger and then crying harder when Mean Mommy would try to get him to nurse. DH and I would go back and forth on whether we should take him back off of rice cereal--should we let him be hungry, so he would nurse sooner, or feed him, so he gets at least some calories?
Finally, after 24-36 hours, he would relent and deign to nurse again. I'd present my engorged self, he'd latch....and immediately bite me again.
This last time he bit me, he had opposing teeth, bit down, and then scraped back like he was cleaning the last scraps of steak from a shish kebab.
I had to pry his jaws apart to release my (bleeding) nipple from his mouth.
I've nursed all five of my kids-so-far, and have come to expect that nursing for me is usually a somewhat painful process, but it was becoming bad enough with Moose that my milk wasn't letting down.
So....on to bottles. *sigh* And I so wanted that LLL trophy. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ouch. He sounds like a character.
My oldest was stubborn, but thankfully food was everything to her. She never rejected the breast, even when REALLY MAD, for more than six hours before she'd have a marathon nursing session because I was so cruel as to try to starve her. Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Heee!
Yeah, I have one like that.
I had to wean THAT one at six months, though, because I was pregnant with her little sister.
She vastly preferred Avent bottles with Daddy to nursing with Mommy.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My eater didn't wean until 3 months after I got pregnant with her sister. I guess it didn't bother her much until then, or she was ready to wean anyway (she was 19 months.)
But when she did wean herself all of a sudden the pregnancy symptoms I hadn't been feeling hit full-force (thankfully only for a week or two until the first trimester was over.) It was like the nursing hormones masked the preg. hormones. Except the heartburn, that is. And the yeast infection that was the reason I finally tested.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Nursing hormones have not masked any pregnancy hormones for me, sadly.
<--- 33 weeks pregnant and nursing a 19 month old.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I weaned before I tried to get pregnant again. I know lots of women who have overlapped successfully, but I didn't want to deal with it. Besides, my son was 18 months when I started trying for my second and that seemed good enough. Some fanatics got on me once for not letting him self wean and started quoting the WHO guidelines at me. I don't understand people sometimes...
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
I tried to overlap--my older two daughters are 15 months apart, and I tried the first trimester pregnant with dd#2 while nursing dd#1.
It didn't go well for us. If anything, my nausea was exaggerated. My maternal caloric needs had doubled, but I wasn't getting much food down.
And with my history of pre-term L&D....
But then I am also one of those people who doesn't lose weight while nursing (I pack it on like a sumo wrestler) and for whom nursing never really feels good, no matter what I do. And despite my stubborn chubbiness, my milk supply is always scanty, and with a few kids I've simply run out.
Despite all that, conception is easy for me (I've been pregnant part of every calendar year since 1999) so I just count my blessings, including the blessings of formula and bottles.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I lose weight pretty well for the first three months, then plateau, then I lose more the first few months after the first year.
And yeah, we didn't TRY to overlap there; kid no. two is when we decided that my husband must have super-sperm.
(Um, don't tell KPC I wrote that. He'd turn pink. Or purple.)
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Oh, yes--the guys in my husband's family are renowned for their super-sperm.
My SIL and I both had three "goalies on the ice" when we got pregnant with her #1 and my #2. (NONE of my 7 pregnancies have been planned; yes, I've tried most nonpermanent BC methods out there)
And, of course, all the kids look just like my husband's family as well. Like cookie cutters. For baby pictures, I may as well take one baby, and change their outfit and background several times. It's all the same anyway.
I'll be interested to see if getting older makes a difference. I'm 28 and DH is 34; maybe it'll slow down.
We always say the only really reliable form of BC we've found is pregnancy. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That sounds an awful lot like me.
And we like the same tv shows. And music tastes seem similar, too.
Sure you're not me?
Oh, wait-- you have more kids, and still have time to write. Never mind, you're definitely not me. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I couldn't imagine not being able to plan my pregnancies! That would be so stressful...I'm such a planner. I've been fortunate in that both my pregnancies happened when I wanted and right away -- no fertility problems at all. Most birth control methods seem to work, although I hate the pill and refuse to use it anymore. We've decided to use fertility awareness from here on out which I admit to not feeling confident about even though we used it for 10 months between babies and it worked great -- plus I knew when I ovulated when I did get pregnant. I think the method would be less stressful if I wanted more kids, but I think I'm done. I'm just not sure enough that I'm done to take permanent steps. I mean, I'm only 30...that's a lot of years to change my mind! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Christine, how do you feel about IUDs? I mean, it wasn't for ME-- my body expelled one and tried to expel the next until I gave in and took it out-- but I've heard nothing but good of IUDs from most women I talk about this stuff with.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: That sounds an awful lot like me.
And we like the same tv shows. And music tastes seem similar, too.
Sure you're not me?
Oh, wait-- you have more kids, and still have time to write. Never mind, you're definitely not me.
And it sounds like you're skinnier.
I have time to write because I steal it. The question is, can I write and still clean the house several times a day, homeschool the kids, work out, and sleep more than 4 hours?
Eh, not really.
And since other people get their stuff published, stuff eerily similar to the stuff I am writing, it's debatable whether there is even a point to me writing, since it already got published, by someone else.
I suppose it would be nice to plan pregnancies. I have no idea what it's like to TTC. I'll just be going along and all of a sudden fall asleep while doing dishes, then wake up puking. (Lovely)
And, not that you asked I have some friends who swear by the IUD.
I imagine I would only swear AT it. With my history of getting pregnant despite BC (usually more than one kind at a time),
I figured it was like the swimming pool risks vs. trampoline risks--that is, one usually gets hurt more often on a trampoline, but one dies more often in a pool.
So, chances might be lower for the IUD failing, but if they did, the consequences would be more severe--instead of just being pregnant, I'd have to be pregnant and fear miscarriage or birth defects.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Rather--risk of non-lethal injury is greater on a trampoline. Risk of lethal injury is greater in a pool.
You can't "die more often", unless you're a cat with nine lives.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've thought about the IUD, but it's still a hormonal method with hormones similar to those in the pill. They're more localized, so maybe they wouldn't be as bad, but the worst thing about the pill (TMI warning) is that it killed my sex drive and I'm afraid the IUD would do the same. It also made my periods heavier and more painful.
It's not off the table, but then again neither is the third child so... Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The IUD I had (ParaGard) is not hormonal. It's also called "the copper IUD."
Thanks for the info, KCQ. I was not aware of that possibility. I'll definitely check it out.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You're welcome. It's also good for 10 years instead of just 5 like Mirena. And IIRC it's cheaper (if you pay for it out of pocket like I did.)
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
It might also depend on what type of pill you were on - many are estrogen + progesterone, while Mirena (and the Shot) are progesterone only.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Cool (about the copper IUD)! I may have to talk to my doctor about that. I can't take traditional bc pills (because they raise my cholesterol really high) and using NuvaRing led to cervical inflammation (which would show up on my pap smears). For now I'm on the progesterone pills since I'm breastfeeding, but that will change when she weans (which will hopefully not happen until the end of the year).
Now going in a totally different direction - it looks like we'll be making a trip in late July (when she's about 7 months old). What can you all tell me about flying with a baby and traveling with one? I'm kind of overwhelmed by the whole idea at the moment... Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
7 months is a pretty easy time to travel. You aren't breastfeeding as often, but not feeding enough solid foods to make it a real hassle, either. Bring a sling or carrier, quite helpful in the airport. If you bring a stroller just use an umbrella stroller, the big ones are a hassle to get through the x-ray machine. If she's out of the infant carrier by then a travel bag for the convertible is helpful. Do definitely consider buying her her own seat on the plane, it's much safer (and half price.) If not bring the seat anyway and if they have an open seat they'll rearrange things and give you the seat to let you use it. If not, gate-check it. I'll try to think of more...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, and I flew last year with a three-year-old and a fourteen-month-old, by myself, layovers both ways, and it really wasn't that bad. I think part of it is definitely the kids' personalities-- they're good little travellers, always have been (runs in the family.)
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah the feeding will be the easy part. To avoid food allergies, we're planning to exclusively breastfeed for at least 8 months (maybe a year, if we can swing it). I'll definitely be bringing her sling. Good point about the stroller. I'll have to see about the seat on the plane for her... it would be great if we can afford it. We'd probably have to buy one for her to have her own, since pretty much every time we've gone, the flights have been packed. Once I know for sure where we'll be staying (hotel, relatives, etc.) I'll be able to obsess about things like where she'll sleep, etc. Out of curiosity, how do you keep their ears from getting plugged during take-off and landing?
I'm reassured that the kid's personalities play a big part - she's normally a very happy, easygoing girl. I'm also glad that we won't have to do a super long flight - we'll be flying from Phoenix to (most likely) Seattle, which iirc is about 3 hours.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Out of curiosity, how do you keep their ears from getting plugged during take-off and landing?
Breastfeed her during these times.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Or, if it's not a good time for a feeding or you're awkward about feeding (I still haven't gotten it down enough to do it in public), you can give the baby a pacifier or bottle. Anything to make sure she's sucking during take off and landing.
My husband and I took James on the plane when he was just over two months, and he slept most of the way. The worst part was worrying afterward that I had exposed him to so many germs. He didn't get sick, though. *relief*
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
We're going to have to fly to the States (from Australia) when the baby is 6 weeks old or so (presuming he/she is born around the due date).
Not really looking forward to it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Actually, 6 weeks is a really easy time for travel. They're small enough to make diaper changes in your lap a cinch, they don't need food packed at all if you're breastfeeding, and they sleep most of the time anyway...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Plus they're still little enough for the bulkhead-attached bassinet, if you can get a bulkhead row.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Yeah the feeding will be the easy part. To avoid food allergies, we're planning to exclusively breastfeed for at least 8 months (maybe a year, if we can swing it).
That's great! Breastfeeding for as long as you can has so many benefits.
There can be problems with iron-deficiency anemia with exclusive breast- or formula-feeding after 6 months, and your wee one may be highly interested in the foods mom and dad are eating. Starting on safe finger foods seems to be part of normal development, practicing holding and mouthing, etc. -- so I'd encourage you not to hem yourself into a commitment in advance before you see how things are going at 6 months.
But I'm sure you will have regular well-child medical visits through then, and y'all will decide what is best for your baby.
Congratulations, and have a good flight. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'll make sure to have a pacifier (or bottle - lately when I've tried to encourage her to drink water for fever and in preparation for water drinking during the Phoenix summer, she's had no interest at all) and myself handy (I've not had any issues breastfeeding in public, but she's a really fast eater) for take-offs and landing
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: There can be problems with iron-deficiency anemia with exclusive breast- or formula-feeding after 6 months, and your wee one may be highly interested in the foods mom and dad are eating. Starting on safe finger foods seems to be part of normal development, practicing holding and mouthing, etc. -- so I'd encourage you not to hem yourself into a commitment in advance before you see how things are going at 6 months.
I know that when we introduce foods will largely depend on her, so I know I need to be flexible. When I talked with her doctor about the food allergy issue (I have a lot of food allergies, which is why I'm concerned about it) last month, he said that the longer we can wait to start introducing her to other foods, the less likely allergies are. I'll ask him about the anemia issue though - I was not aware of it. Do you know if increasing my iron intake would help with that? That reminds me, I should call my allergist and ask what he recommends in terms of the order in which to introduce foods. At his recommendation, I have been avoiding some of the common trigger foods while I'm breastfeeding, but I know there are a whole host of ideas about when to introduce different things to children with a family history of food allergies.
Another silly travel question - if we need to stay in a hotel, do they have anything for her to sleep in or do we need to bring/buy a pack and play type thing?
In fun, happy things, she rolled onto her belly while awake on her own last week (she's been rolling back to sides for months now, but only rolled onto her belly while sleeping at night). She still hates tummy time, but we can at least do it for about 5 minutes before she gets angry. She's also really started to use her signing. I'd been using the sign for "eat" for the couple months, and she's been using it (her version uses both hands) more and more often when she's hungry (yesterday she used it almost every time). I think we're also finally starting to make progress with sleeping at night. Last night she had two 4-hour chunks of sleep! It's been a lot of "2 steps forward, 1 step back", but if she can keep going like she did last night, I'll be very happy. Now I feel like we can start working on the "napping for only 30 mins at a time" issue. And hopefully her little lower teeth will finally pop through - they're really close.
[ May 20, 2008, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Not to be a damper, but our pediatrician has said that 6 weeks is the peak of the fussiness/colic cycle (we're at 4 weeks, and he's already being a pain, though YMMV, obviously). That's something to accommodate for, especially on such a long flight (AU -> US), I would think.
-Bok
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Do you know if increasing my iron intake would help with that? That reminds me, I should call my allergist and ask what he recommends in terms of the order in which to introduce foods. At his recommendation, I have been avoiding some of the common trigger foods while I'm breastfeeding, but I know there are a whole host of ideas about when to introduce different things to children with a family history of food allergies.
Oh, I'd totally defer to any licensed MDs professionally involved with the care of your family. I just wanted you to be aware of possible concerns in advance so that you could get specific advice in advance.
Let me know what they say, okay?
[edited for formatting]
[ May 20, 2008, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
((CT)) You are totally awesome! I really appreciate knowing about the anemia issue, since I'd never heard about it. I'll let you know what the various doctors (her ped and my allergist) say so you can add their knowledge and advice to yours. Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
New issue with James: Yesterday he decided it would be fun to roll onto his tummy every time we laid him down. It's funny to watch because he'll be happy for a little while and then cry when he's tired of being on his tummy. It's good because he's getting more tummy time, but he can't seem to figure out how to roll back over onto his back. The problem is, he did the same thing when I put him to bed last night. Every time I went to check on him, he'd be on his tummy. I know it's common for older babies to start sleeping on their tummies, but James isn't even four months old yet. And it worries me because he seems to be kinda stuck there once he rolls over. Is it ok for him to sleep on his tummy? Is there anything I should do to keep him from rolling over when I put him to bed? Should I just focus on trying to help him learn how to roll back over?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
ludosti: YMMV, of course, but I have always been told NOT to give the baby water, at all, before 6 months, and then only a small amount; better to breastfeed more if it's hot. I'd talk to your ped about that, for sure.
And I've always found fussiness to be much better by 6 weeks; it's peaked at 3 to 4 for us. But we've never had a colicky baby, either.
As for where to sleep, YMMV there, too. I've found several hotels to have safe and clean cribs available (ranging from free to $12/night), but found several others to have none, an inadequate supply, or the cribs were not safe when I checked them.
We often bring the pack and play, but we are thinking (since we travel so much) of getting a different type of travel bed/crib, especially since Bridey is still in a crib right now. Like the PeaPod. (They're on clearance at albeebaby.com and sale at babycenter.com right now, I haven't checked prices anywhere else...)
hansenj, my peds have always said continue to put baby on his back when he learns to roll over, but don't stress about it. You can use a positioner if you want, but at that point some babies can roll out of it, actually.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Her doctor is the one that told me about the water. Since it gets so hot here, he said that if we spend time outside she should have 4-6 oz. of water in addition to nursing.
We have one of those close and secure sleepers, but I'm not at all sure she'll still fit in it. I'll have to check her in it from time to time to see... Once I know where we'll be, I'll start making phone calls and can figure out what options we'll have for sleeping.
Good luck with the flipping baby, hansen! I'd probably focus on teaching him how to roll over. I've heard that once they can roll themselves over, it's not worth obsessing over *making* them sleep on their backs, but you may want to ask your doctor, since he is so young.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
I called our old pediatrician (don't have one yet here in Oregon), and she said to use a positioner for a month or two since he's so young still. I hope he doesn't roll out of it!
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
And I've always found fussiness to be much better by 6 weeks; it's peaked at 3 to 4 for us. But we've never had a colicky baby, either.
* Sees that little-Bok is 4 weeks and 4 days old now (though he was 2 weeks before his due date) *
You give me hope.
EDIT: I don't know if it is colic either. All I know is that 3-4 times a day, he is inconsolable for 30 minutes to an hour (occasionally more) with gas that he can't seem to pass. At night it messes with his feeding/sleep schedule. He'll feed at night for about 5 minutes a side, fall asleep, and then the moment you move him he is crying again.
Not fun.
-Bok
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
And yeah, I'm definitely going to encourage him to roll back over. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: EDIT: I don't know if it is colic either. All I know is that 3-4 times a day, he is inconsolable for 30 minutes to an hour (occasionally more) with gas that he can't seem to pass. At night it messes with his feeding/sleep schedule. He'll feed at night for about 5 minutes a side, fall asleep, and then the moment you move him he is crying again. Not fun.
We had issues for the first month or 2 like that with Beanie. We found that Mylicon really seemed to help her. We'd give it to her at almost every feeding when she was really having problems. You might want to ask your doctor about it and see what s/he would recommend.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Bok: have you tried Gripe Water?
quote:Her doctor is the one that told me about the water. Since it gets so hot here, he said that if we spend time outside she should have 4-6 oz. of water in addition to nursing.
Our pediatrician thinks it part of the natural fussiness cycle, and while he mentioned Mylicon, he said that it doesn't usually help. We'll be trying it anyway.
The problem isn't at feedings, it's usually between, and last up to and/or into feedings. Particularly at night, he feeds weakly, falls asleep fast, and isn't easy to wake... Until you put him back in the cradle, and then 5-10 minutes later he is screaming (gas screaming, he isn't giving feeding cues for the most part, he's textbook as far as cues are normally).
What is Gripe Water?
-Bok
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Rivka and KQ - yes, I hope that will be the case (the relative ease). We'll definitely be requesting a bulkhead bassinet.
Bok - let's hope the baby isn't too fussy!
It's a family wedding, and my husband is the best man, so there's not much option about timing unfortunately. We will make sure we get excellent travel insurance in case we can't go though.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Gripe water is a preparation with ginger, fennel, and other herbal ingredients. It does kind of the same thing as Mylicon-- designed to break up the bubbles, you can also use corn syrup or sugar water to do the same thing-- but the herbal ingredients are designed to soothe the tummy as well. Ask your ped if it's okay, of course, but mine have all been fine with it. Drugstores, Babies R Us, and other stores carry it, or you can get it online; there are several brands, one of which at least is organic. I've never needed to use it, my kids do fine with sugar water (although strangely Mylicon doesn't seem to do much) but I've heard it's a miracle worker for really fussy tummied babies.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(If you prefer home remedies, my peds have also okayed a home-made infusion of ginger sweetened with sugar to do the same thing.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Just wanted to pop in and say that I had my baby on Saturday!
Celeste Abigail was born at 5:50 p.m. and weighed in at 5 lb 14 oz, 18.75" long. She is perfectly healthy and soooooo tiny. Even the size NB clothes we have for her are almost too big. We actually had to go out and buy premie size diapers.
Things are going pretty smoothly -- she nurses like a pro already. I was more confident the second time around but I think it also has to do with her -- she just opened up wide the very first time and latched beautifully.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That is tiny! Glad all is well!
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
The water studies listed only go up to 105.8F. Isn't ludosti in Phoenix which goes up to like 120F? Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Congrats Christine!! I'm so glad she's so healthy and that things are going so smoothly so far!
Thanks for the article kq! I did notice that they didn't test at Phoenix temperatures - for example, it was 109F today and during the summer it is often in the 1teens for weeks on end and doesn't get down much below 100 even at night (how can it be hotter here than in India?!). Since we're rarely out and about when it's hot (I don't want to be out in that anyway), I figure the issue is one that we won't face often. I'd thought it would probably be the best way to introduce her to drinking from a cup as she gets older, so I was glad to see that mentioned in a couple places. It is good to know that I don't *have* to give her water, but is something that I can reserve for special circumstances. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Exactly.
I have occasionally given water to a child who was no longer EBF-- like taking some cereal, etc.-- no more than a few ounces, and only when out on a really hot day. What I have found is the times I need to give it are times when the baby is so hot that she gets lethargic and falls asleep every time she tries to nurse-- in those circumstances, I give water.
But since I usually start my kids on solids before 6 months, it's not like they're EBF any more, either, which can contribute-- once they start solids they are more prone to need a little extra liquid now and then, I think.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Oh, and yes, if I give water or half-strength juice, it is ALWAYS from a cup, not a bottle-- my kids aren't much for bottles anyway.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Oh, and Phoenix is hot for sure, but at least it's a dry heat! So it sears you instead of steaming you! )
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My baby was not good about breast feeding so when it was really hot, we would give her water (she sweats a lot). One thing that is kinda annoying now though- we would use a straw (put finger on to hold in and then let it drip on her). Since then she has learned to use a straw properly, but she still trys to drink the way we did it before she had figured straws out.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I've wondered about the water thing when we're out and about and my mouth gets dry and sticky enough that I need water. I wonder if I should be giving something to Katababy, too. I don't nurse her until we get home, usually, because she doesn't usually ask. But I think, if I am thirsty and my mouth is dry, what about her??
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
If it's hot enough that I get thirsty and am sweating, or if I notice the baby sweating, I always offer the breast. If she doesn't want it fine, but more often than not when they're sweating the babies seem to appreciate a quick nursing break.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Congrats, Christine. She sounds perfect and sweet.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Congratulations, Christine!! I was just checking in here to see if anyone had any news about your new arrival. Hooray for a healthy baby!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Congratulations, Christine! Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Yay, Christine! I hope she continues to be a good baby for you.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Congrats, Christine. My first was just about that size. You'll be amazed in a few months by how huge she has gotten!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Congratulations!
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Congratulations Christine! Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I saw this article on CNN and thought of all you guys...
We took Maggie in to Indy with us today. She slept through pretty much the whole thing (she whined for milk once or twice but that was it.) It was so nice to see a movie in a theater! (We left the older kiddos with my mom.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, and the little stinker smiled for the first time-- for my mom. She did it repeatedly. I saw it over her shoulder-- until Maggie saw me. Then she stopped and refused to smile any more! Brat!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by cmc: I saw this article on CNN and thought of all you guys...
Yikes! Why hasn't that come up on my daily FDA warnings email?
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Mazel tov, Christine!
kq, Aerin learns things after her dad shows her once, that I've been trying to teach her for weeks. I feel your pain. She also ate Nilla Wafers from my mother, which she wouldn't from me.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
kq -- you're braver than me to take a newborn to the theatre! I'm so frustrated because it's been a long time since there was a movie I actually wanted to go to the theatre to see but Indiana Jones on the big screen is right at the top of my list -- and I wouldn't mind seeing Prince Caspian there either. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
This is probably a silly question, but (when flying in the US) will I need to show any sort of ID for my infant? Also, since we are not going to be able to afford a seat for her, should I get a Baby B'air for her?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You probably should bring along her birth certificate, but check with your airline as to what is required.
As for the Baby B'air, some airlines won't allow it at all, and some babies will refuse to wear it. I'm not convinced it does anything, personally.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'm convinced-- we hit turbulence while I was asleep with Emma in my lap, suddenly, with no warning. She was about 10 months. She went off my lap-- but not on the floor, since she was restrained by the Baby B'air.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, and I've never had an airline say anything about it.
I've never had ID checked for a baby, either, but they do say to bring a birth certificate.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
My understanding is that baby restraint harnesses are not allowed during take-off and landing, because in an on or near-the-ground accident it's actually safer for the baby to fall off the parent's lap than to be slammed between the parent's torso and lap when the parent is thrown forward. Since there are no shoulder belts on planes.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, they for sure aren't allowed during takeoff and landing. I don't know about "safer" either way.
But the turbulence thing for sure provides peace of mind.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
On another forum, flying with babies came up and some posters were adamant that babies should be in their own car seat during flying. Among examples was a very sad one of a baby being killed because a piece of luggage flew through the cabin and hit the baby, who was in his mother's arms. If the baby is in a rear-facing baby seat, there's a lot more coverage and safety from flying luggage. Others pointed out that during turbulence, the baby can actually fly through the air and hit others. The Baby B'air can protect against the second, but not the first.
I don't fly, but if I did, I'd buy a second seat.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I don't fly, but if I did, I'd buy a second seat.
For someone flying internationally, that is not always financially feasible.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
If the seat next to you happens to be empty, the airlines will let you have it for a carseat for free. The problem with this is that it seems like every flight I have been on is booked solid. My baby is a toddler now, so still qualifies for free on my lap, but I cannot imagine keeping her on my lap for 3 hours. She is too wiggly now.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
We had a seat for our little one (flying at 4 and 5 months) but were required to take her out of the carseat and hold her on my lap with a specially designed baby seatbelt that hooked onto the regular seatbelt. I initially had her in her seat but on both flights they made me hold her - making the extra seat essentially useless, except for the extra two bags allowed. Might want to check with your airline before committing.
ETA: Baby on lap was required only for takeoff and landing I think, but on a two-hour flight there wasn't much point putting her in the seat only to take her out again almost right away.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Lissande, was it a domestic flight? Because that's not been true on any of the flights I was on, all approved car seats are approved for takeoff and landing.
I've been on flights where they rearranged people to let us have baby in an empty seat. But that's getting less and less likely as they cut flights and overschedule them more and more. Do always bring a seat just in case, but if you want baby to have her own seat, buy it.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
We decided not to go to Pittsburgh (among other reasons, the baby will not be immunised at that stage).
So we don't have to worry about flying all that way with a very young infant. Which is a relief, I have to say.
Posted by Rodger Brown (Member # 11476) on :
OK so ill break into this thread with good news for my wife and I. We are now expecting our first baby. Its been a long road to conception so I'm yelling from the roof tops.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
ketchupqueen - no, it was EU. Haven't flown to US yet.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Congrats, Rodger. If you'd like to you can share it on the pregnancy thread, too. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Mazel tov, Rodger! I've had a bumpy road to conception myself, so I can relate.
Anyone have recommendations for double strollers? I think I'd prefer one where one is in front and one is in back to a side-by-side one. I'm looking at the Graco Quattro Tour Duo.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I thought that too, at first, Mrs. M. And indeed, the first few months the tandem was fine. Then they got older and it got heavier. And pretty soon they were old enough that whichever was in the back was messing with the one in front.
Then I got my Maclaren Twin. And I fell in love.
This time I have just started with a Maclaren to begin with. (I even got a new one to replace the second-hand, beginning-to-freeze-up one I had-- it's about 10 years old and was not stored properly before I got it, but it still served me well for a full year and a half. So I expect several kids' usage out of a brand new one. Plus the new one comes with accessories-- infant insert, cold-weather boots, rain cover-- and has a better recline, so the newborn can use it right away if I want her to.)
I adore it. And I got it for $250 on eBay (incl. shipping), last year's model, and not much more expensive than a Graco or something. I suppose the one real advantage was the "travel system" aspect, but we are not using an infant seat at all this time around so that advantage doesn't apply.
I think I posted on this subject in another forum; let me see if I can find my post there and copy-paste it here.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ya know what, I'm just going to e-mail you the link, it's too long.
I have star ratings on my other post; because of the new Maclaren I have, with fuller recline and infant insert, I would now update my Maclaren to 5 out of 5 stars. And I mention Bridey pulling down on the shade, it is indeed very hard for her to mess with it on the new one, so that problem is solved.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
E-mail sent. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Congrats Rodger (and the Mrs)!!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I need some suggestions for coaxing Beanie to take Tylenol. She's still teething on and off (for 3 months now) and sometimes the pain is enough to interfere with her sleep or she'll get one of those low-grade teething fevers (like 99.8F underarm). But, she HATES Tylenol and will spit most/all of it out when I try to give it to her. I've tried mixing it with breastmilk (she's exclusively breastfed) but that only worked the first time. I've tried breaking up the dose into smaller squirts from the dropper (hoping to get less of it spit out at me). I've tried distracting her (with someone else playing with her) while giving it to her. I just don't know what else to try. Yesterday, for example, she was running a fever and really unhappy. My husband helped me try to give her a dose but that just made the crying escalate to screaming (she was pissed at the world). She screamed for 30-45 minutes (the first time she's ever done that), making herself throw up a couple times and breaking our hearts as we tried everything we could think of to help her calm down and cool down (since the screaming only made her warmer).
Oh - and does anyone else's baby get a hot head (but not a fever per se, the rest of her is just fine, it's only her head that's hot) when they're teething?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
How old is she? Sometimes, you can get babies to swallow by blowing gently on their face.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Does she take a pacifier? James used to spit out tylenol, so we would squeeze it into the back of his cheek and put the pacifier in as fast as we could so that he would suck and then swallow. It worked pretty well. Otherwise, I've heard of people gently squeezing the cheeks together a little bit to encourage a baby to close their mouth and swallow. That one doesn't work on James, though.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Cradle her head in the crook of your elbow and use the hand on that side to pull out the corner of her mouth with your index or middle finger. Then drop the medicine a little at a time into the cheek pocket. Keep your finger in place until she swallows. The tension will keep her from spitting.
I've also read the suggestion to ask for chewable tablets instead of drops and crush them and make a stiff paste with a little water. Harder to spit out.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, I just restrain the limbs (sometimes by swaddling), flip the head back, and squirt all at once into the back of the throat, then hold the mouth until they swallow.
I'm mean.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Scott - She's about 5.5 months old.
I'll try blowing in her face (she actually likes that a lot) and the pacifier. I've tried using my fingers and haven't had much luck (it's amazing how well her little tongue can block everything off), but I'll try keeping it there and see if I can keep her from spitting. I've even tried the mean method - that's what I did yesterday - she just vomited it up about 30 seconds later. I picked up a different flavor at the store today, so I can try that too.
It's just so hard, because I can't explain to her that even though the medicine is awful, she needs it to feel better. I'm hoping her fever won't reappear today (she's been having them in the afternoon/night for the last couple days), but she's starting to feel warm to me. After her nap I'll check her temp and maybe get to put some of these ideas to use this afternoon.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Have you been using other methods to reduce the fever?
Undress her.
Give tepid (not cold, not hot, body temp.) baths, as often as necessary.
Place cool, wet washcloths on her forehead and wrists.
Feed her "milksicles"-- frozen breastmilk (you can freeze it in an ice cube tray and then place the cubes in a mesh fresh food feeder.
Those things often help bring body temp down better than tylenol. (Also, tylenol does not bring my eldest daughter's fever down at all, ever. I have to use ibuprofen for that.)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Had you considered using the rectal form of the medicine?
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I've done most of the other methods for cooling her down. The milksicles are a great idea! I'll occasionally give her half of a small ice cube (half filling the trays designed for making ice cubes to fit in water bottles) in a food feeder and she has fun playing with and chewing on it.
The rectal form is a good idea too for having on hand when I have to make sure she gets the full dose. I'll talk to her doctor when we go in for her 6 month checkup in a couple weeks.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You don't need a scrip for it, you can get it over the counter at your local pharmacy. Just ask, they keep it in the fridge in the back. Ask for "acetaminophen suppositories, infant dosage."
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Sometimes it goes by the name "Fever-all," sometimes it's generic. I've seen it stocked at several WalMarts.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Oh cool! I'll definitely pick some up!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I bet if you call your local pharmacy, they will either have some or will be able to point you in the right direction without a wasted trip.
Good luck!
---
Edited to add: WalMart is far from my first preference, but I've had to direct families in the middle of the night to get some, and there are so many of those that are open 24hrs. Still, most other places should have it, too.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah, I live out in the boondocks. We have 2 pharmacies in town and the 2 grocery stores have pharmacies and that's about it. Of course, none of them are open 24 hours, which isn't fun (the closest 24 hour pharmacy is about 25 miles away). It's kind of sad that, as much as I dislike Walmart, I'm sort of looking forward to when they open the one here that's currently under construction (I'm really hoping it will have long hours or be open 24 hours).
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I need some alternative feeding recommendations. This month I have to be at work 4 hours a day, and next month I have to be there 8 hours a day. My husband is taking care of our daughter, but she is having real difficulty taking the bottle. I didn't start her on one early, so she doesn't know how to properly drink. I've tried several brands, and we've had the best luck with the Gerber Nuk. But it's not good enough, and she gets very frustrated. She's wanting to nurse about every 2 hours or more lately, too.
She's about 3 1/2 months old and is very well established at breast feeding and drinks very quickly at the breast. We rarely have a feeding over 10-15 minutes.
What other feeding methods would you recommend? I looked up baby finger feeders, but the two that came up in google aren't available anymore--I don't know why. I think that would have been a good solution. She sucks on my finger, so I don't think she'd have any problem drinking like that.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Sippy cup.
I gave my daughter a sippy starting at 3 1/2 months when she refused the bottle and it worked great for her. She liked the hard top but some kids like the soft top Nuby ones. By five months she held it herself. (Of course my second wouldn't take anything until almost 12 months; I just tried not to leave her but when I had to and she couldn't just go without, my mom would syringe feed her when she wasn't in the mood to drink from a "big girl" open cup my mom held for her. But by then, she was eating enough food that my mom could usually just sneak extra liquid into the food.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Also, a lot of kids who stubbornly won't drink will eat frozen liquids by the time they are 5 months old or so.)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Seriously? I thought she was too young for a sippy cup--that surely would be the easiest thing.
I'm going to the supermarket, I think I'll pick one up. Might as well try it--and if she doesn't like it, she will eventually.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Mine learned to use a sippy cup (with help -- they couldn't hold it properly) at about 3-4 months too.
The one Emma started on was the Gerber "trainer cup"-- two handles, slightly "cushioned" but rigid spout, 4 oz. capacity, with valve.
And yeah, she loved drinking from a cup like us (when I wasn't around, or if I gave her something other than breastmilk, anyway.) She liked to sit on a lap and have it tipped gently into her mouth a little at a time, she got the hang of it really fast.
A lot of moms who EBF but want baby to be able to eat for someone in an emergency introduce a cup as young as 2 months to avoid nipple confusion. You do have a lot more spills, but it totally pays off when they're six months old and drinking by themselves from a sippy cup, and your ped tells you to get them off the bottle by one year old and you say, "Oh, she already takes a sippy cup" very smugly. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Does anyone else have serious problems burping a baby? I often feel like I'm lacking some sort of basic skill. My babies just won't burp when I pat their backs. I can sometimes get other methods to work, but even then, not all the time. Also, when Duplo's asleep, nothing I do can get his burps out. But the minute I put him down, he starts to cry because they're making him uncomfortable.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Beanie has never burped well for me. When she was tiny it was a running joke that if I handed her to anyone else she burped just fine. The best luck I have getting her to burp is bouncing her on my leg. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I can pat Katababy's back for quite a while and then a few well placed pats from daddy brings up the burps. I think he's just lucky, though, because she's done some pretty big burps for me, too.
I think it might help to have some pressure on her tummy when I burp her, although it doesn't always work. If I've nursed her while laying down, sometimes I'm too lazy to sit up, so I'll place her tummy over my side and pat her back. She likes looking around from that vantage point. Even if she doesn't burp, the position seems to give her some relief.
But yeah, sometimes it takes forever for her to burp--I usually give up too soon and lay her down for a few minutes. When she gets fussy again, I'll try to burp her once again and then she usually burps more readily. Come to think of it, laying her down in the middle probably stirs up the gas just enough to dislodge it.
(I really need to figure out the lying/laying thing--it's eluded me far too long.)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Her daddy, though... he takes burping and gas relief to an art form. He'll turn and twist her every which way to help gas bubbles travel through her system--one way or the other.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I will definitely try the "tummy over my side" position when lying down. Pressure on the tummy seemed to help Lego but just tends to make Duplo mad and tense. I do have luck with tiny bounces, whether he's sitting on my leg, sitting on my stomach, or being held.
Katarain:
The quick answer is that lay is transitive and lie is intransitive. Which means that if you're doing it to something, it's lay. So you lay your head on the pillow when you lie (nothing) down. You would lay down a baby, but the baby would lie down. There's a similar division between sit and set. But in practical informal use, you're pretty safe with using lay all the time.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Oooh. I know intransitive and transitive! I wonder why I didn't know that before. I must have missed that part of the explanation. Being that I was an English teacher (still am, I suppose, just not in practice), that's one I should have known. But despite what people may think, being certified to teach English doesn't mean you know all grammar. I do, however, understand parts of speech--so transitive and intransitive are the magic words. Thanks!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't have the burping touch. All my kids pretty quickly got to the point where I hand the baby over to her father, and she burps as she goes or when she sees him... Yeah, I think they're just stubborn. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
He spits up! His brother never did that. People used to ask me why they never saw me with a burp rag and I said I never needed one because my baby never spits up.
So far we've managed to miss getting my nice clean shirt messy by urping straight down my clevage. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah, Beanie has spit down my cleavage on a couple of occasions (quite the feat, since I don't have much cleavage). It's definitely an interesting sensation... I don't know that I've ever known a baby that didn't spit up, so it sounds like you got lucky. Too bad Charles spoiled the lucky streak! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
My mom had five spitters. So I wasn't surprised that all of mine spit too. As long as he doesn't get any distance, it's not a medical issue.
It's a laundry issue. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
No distance with the spitting. He gets great distance with pooping, though. Bob was changing him on the edge of our bed and he managed to cross the gap and hit John's bed. Leaving a light splatter trail across our sheets and the floor, of course.
I will be glad when the barage of houseguests is over and we have the room with the changing table available at night again.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
One of the nurses who came when my oldest was under bililights called those "atomic poops". I had to remember to keep the door right next to the changing table closed -- much easier to clean than a diffuse mess in the entire room on the other side . . .
Good luck!
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: No distance with the spitting. He gets great distance with pooping, though. Bob was changing him on the edge of our bed and he managed to cross the gap and hit John's bed. Leaving a light splatter trail across our sheets and the floor, of course.
I will be glad when the barage of houseguests is over and we have the room with the changing table available at night again.
Oh, what I have to look forward to.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
My little baby has cut two teeth within a week! He's such a trooper. The only hint it was happening was the drooling and gnawing. No fever or unusual fussiness!
I'm loving this age a lot. He's discovering things and figuring out how to get around. And still smiling ALL THE TIME. Oh, and he's gone back to sleeping through the night! I feel very blessed.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
So he's at three teeth already? Cool!
He is indeed a remarkably calm and happy baby. (I'll spare you the theory of what this means about his adolescence. )
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Nathaniel has finally *stopped* spitting. (Still toothless, although the drooling and gnawing is unabated. It's been going on for four months now, though, so we stopped holding our breath a while ago.)
He's back up at night, too. He slept really well from 4-5 months, then hit the 6 month growth spurt and is still apparently spurting. *shrug* It's really not so bad...nothing like what ludosti was going through with Beanie. (Hope that's gotten better, btw!) He goes down for the night at around 8:30, wakes up twice (usually 12:30 and 4ish...if I'm lucky, he'll skip the first one), nurses both times, and generally goes right back to sleep when his tummy is full. He might nurse again at around 5 or 6, but then sleeps till 9 or so.
I decided when he went back to waking that I needed to keep things in perspective. We've had a few bad nights when we can't get him back to sleep. Compared to that, getting up for 25 minutes in the middle of the night isn't so bad--especially considering that I usually doze while nursing him.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
rivka- No, just two. He got the second one on Thursday, which was less than a week after the first (last Friday).
And I'm choosing to ignore your inferences on what his adolescence is going to be like. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie is a smiler now. And a talker. She talks (coos, aahs, etc.) more than both my other girls at two months put together. I asked my mom if this is a portent of things to come. She said, "It was with you..." Oh, dear.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by hansenj: rivka- No, just two. He got the second one on Thursday, which was less than a week after the first (last Friday).
Ah! That makes more sense.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Eliza learned how to roll over last night. She was so excited. I heard her talking instead of fussing like she usually does when she wakes up. I went to check on her and she looked up with me with these big eyes and just looked so proud of herself. I was so proud of her. She has been trying so hard for the last few weeks and getting so frustrated. It was great to see her accomplish it! She has now rolled over twice more today. She is growing up fast.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Congrats to Eliza!
How old is she?
My husband swears that the little bugaboo has rolled over 3 times, but I have yet to see it. She's practically 5 months, and I guess a little behind.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Eliza will be 4 months on August 6th. I don't think she is really behind. My baby book said it is a 4-6 month skill so your little one is right in that range still. Ellie was just a bit early. She is big for her age though and I think that may be part of it. She is in the 95% for height and weight. I'm not sure how she got those genes. Her daddy and I are both 5 foot 6.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
KataBaby is off the charts in height and weight--big baby! I'm glad to know that it's a 4-6 month skill--I was afraid she should have been rolling over months ago.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yay for rolling over babies!!
Beanie has been perfecting sitting up lately. She's getting pretty good, but still tips over from time to time. I'm trying to teach her that tipping over is funny, rather than tragic, but sometimes she gets scared and cries anyway.
We got home from our big trip yesterday and she was a real trooper for the whole week! We didn't have any poo explosions on the plane (thank goodness!) and she even behaved really well for the family photos (which were scheduled 15 minutes before her usual bedtime), the wedding (on a day when her mouth hurt and she didn't nap well), and both plane trips. Everyone commented on what a good and sweet little baby she was. She woke up a lot during the nights, but I don't blame her - I don't sleep well when I'm not in my own bed either. Now that we're home, hopefully she'll start sleeping better at night. I'd felt bad that when we were finally getting the hang of taking good naps, we were going to mess it all up with the traveling, but she did better than I expected. We had fun introducing her to her cousins, dogs, the ocean (even though it was cold, she loved sticking her hands and feet in), and grass.
[ July 24, 2008, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I've heard that walkers are bad for babies--is this true? My doctor recommended getting an exersaucer (a playstation) for my baby, but I forgot to ask her about walkers. I heard that they mess with the baby's legs--but I don't know why an exersaucer would be any better.
She also recommended one of those jumpers you put in the doorways--I heard those can be bad, too! (Can cause shaken baby syndrome. I asked the doctor if those could shake her brain, and the doctor said no.)
What do ya'll think?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Walkers are dangerous -- babies can turn them over, and get to things you don't expect. And if you have stairs, absolutely forget about them.
Excersaucers and the like are less of an issue -- the base is weighted, and the baby can't actually go anywhere, so less likely to get into something that would otherwise be out of reach.
I never bothered with an excersaucer, but my kids all loved the doorway jumpers. I would absolutely NEVER let a kid play in one unattended, though.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Can a baby who can jump actually shake himself hard enough to get shaken baby syndrome? That sounds a bit far-fetched to me. They don't jump high or fast enough to hurt themselves. They just bounce a bit.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I have read about studies that show that walkers delay walking and leg muscle development, but I think they are disputed. More important is the falling down the stairs issue.
We're on vacation this week (well, Bob's at work, the kids and I are on vacation). The Disney employees are oogling my baby. We're taking lots of pictures so that when he wants to go to DisneyWorld when he's older we can tell him he's already been. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: They don't jump high or fast enough to hurt themselves. They just bounce a bit.
You never saw my son go at it. But yeah, shaken-baby seems hard to believe.
quote:Originally posted by dkw: I have read about studies that show that walkers delay walking and leg muscle development, but I think they are disputed. More important is the falling down the stairs issue.
Or even just managing to flip over without the aid of any stairs -- something my next-oldest sib managed, much to my mother's astonishment.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Thanks for the input. Now I just have to decide on a playstation/exersaucer type thing.
She doesn't really have any other place to sit, so this is what the doctor suggested.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Ellie loves her rainforest jumperoo. She will play in it about two to three times a day for about 20 minutes at a time. She does a good job of manipulating the toys and is starting to get into jumping more. She is almost four months.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My mom says she has seen cases of hyperextension from jumpers and exersaucers, both, but only in kids who are in them for way more than the amount of time they should be.
I love our Exersaucer; it's a hand-me-down "vintage" one with NO toys. It is just a tray with a revolving seat on a base (three height adjustable.) We LOVE it because if we want to we can put toys on it, or we can just have snacks, or even a "time out" cool-down spot for non-walking early tantrumers who have overstimulated a bit too much. If you can get your hands on one with NO toys or extra "stuff", I do highly recommend it (but they don't make them any more, at least not the Exersaucer brand, at least not that I've been able to find.)
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
*bumpity bump*
Nathaniel has an Exersaucer, a Jumperoo, AND a doorway jumper. (Only one of which we got, and we got it used.) It's not quite as ridiculous as it sounds...we live in a 3-floor townhouse, so we have one on each floor. Exersaucer in the basement so I can do laundry, Jumperoo in the kitchen so we can cook/ clean up, and jumperoo upstairs so we can check email/ make the bed.
He spends most of his time on the floor, though, rolling around and trying to crawl. He's late with sitting...he can prop himself up and is working on balancing without propping. (He's just now 8 months, 6.5 corrected.) I expect he'll get it in the next week or so.
I'm not worried, though, because my amazing baby is waving hello and bye-bye and clapping his hands. It's the cutest thing...he's SO pleased with himself that he can clap.
/brag
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Aww! I can't wait for Ellie to learn to clap and wave. We have been doing bye bye for her but she is completely oblivious so far. I am pretty sure she started teething. She has a little red bump on her bottom gum. She use to be a great sleeper. She has been sleeping through the night since about 4 weeks. Last night she was up 3 times. She has been up 2-3 times all week. Plus her 3 hour nap is now about 1 hour and her 2 hour nap is about 45 minutes. She is so cranky! Any suggestions. She refuses to take teethers for me.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
We have all three too. I got an exersaucer for her to use upstairs while I'm sewing and a Rainforest jumperoo for downstairs while I'm cooking. Craigslist is great for finding good deals. She's been using those since she was about 3 months old and loves them. Grandma got her a doorway jumper when we were visiting last month, so we now have one of those too.
I'm so jealous of the waving and clapping! Beanie has been concentrating on sitting up and can sit up unassisted with very little tipping over now. She still hates being on her belly for long so I'm wondering if she's going to be one of those babies that doesn't crawl until right before they walk. She has lots of fun sitting on the floor with her basket of toys and taking everything out to play with it (and then play with the basket too). She's also started handing me her toys over the last couple weeks. It's very cute.
I'm sorry Ellie has started teething. It's not fun at all (Beanie is still teething off and on with nothing to show for it yet). Beanie loves those mesh feeder bags with a small ice cube in it. She also likes chewing on a washcloth (with the corner wet and frozen), one of my knuckles, or a refrigerated RazBerry or pacifier (she loves sticking it in her mouth sideways and then ripping it out). She hasn't appreciated the normal teething rings until recently.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie is almost big enough for the Exersaucer. Guess I should wash it!
Maggie is starting to copy my signs when I make them ("milk", "eat", and "sleep" are the ones I'm starting with; soon I'll introduce "more", "wet", "dirty", "change", and "bath.")
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I ended up with a swing, a jumper and an exersaucer. My mom gave me the swing, my friends the jumper and I bought the exersaucer (on sale). I took the jumper into my work for when she was with me there and left the saucer and swing at home. She loved the exersaucer, the jumper is hard to say because she didn't like coming ino work with me and was crabby no matter what we did. The swing became a rocking chair and she really likes that, but she wasn't that interested in the swing as a swing.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'm not sure whether to be very proud or rather scared.
[ August 14, 2008, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: ketchupqueen ]
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
both? Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Not really sure where to post this so I'll put it here. My uncle and his partner had their twins yesterday. I am asking for prayers, good thoughts, good vibes, healthy air hugs and kisses, whatever good stuff you believe in be sent on to them if you've got some to spare.
If memory serves correctly, she's almost three weeks beyond me so that would put the babies at 29 weeks and a few days. Two girls - 2.9 (i think that one's right) and 3.7 lbs. That's all that we know right now because Patrick just called one of my other Uncles to tell him and went back to the NICU.
I know he doesn't post here or anything, but I figured with how awesome this community is there'd probably be some good energy sent their way if I asked for it.
Thanks.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good luck to the whole family. That's pretty big for 29 weeks, I think.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
cmc, those are great weights. I'm sure they seem very small, but consider that Aerin weighed 1.75 pounds when she was born at 26 weeks and she's a healthy toddler now. I will keep them in my prayers.
If you or any of your family has any questions, please email me. My address is in my profile.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I actually just talked with Pat not too long ago and it was actually 3.1 and 3.7... They're definitely big for how old they are so that's a good thing.
I guess they're getting help breathing and are on feeding tubes, but they're generally good. They were able to get one of the shots in to boost their lung development and she kept them in for 12 hrs after that. They were hoping to be able to get 2 doses in, but she was already 6cm dilated and I guess the doc wanted to get them out (they did a c-section).
So far everything's good, though. There's nothing WRONG with the girls, they're just little and need to develop some.
Oh, and they're still baby a and baby b because they were going for a surprise on the sexes and hadn't finished talking names yet!
edit: So - someone's looking out for these girls... Just talked with Laurie and apparently they scored 8.0 and 9.9 on their Apgars and are now breathing on their own... Let's hope things keep going in this direction...
[ August 21, 2008, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: cmc ]
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
That's good news cmc - I hope things keep improving for the babies.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Duplo is not yet three months old and weighs somewhere around 15 lbs., according to our bathroom scale. Oy.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by cmc: Just talked with Laurie and apparently they scored 8.0 and 9.9 on their Apgars and are now breathing on their own... Let's hope things keep going in this direction...
Anything APGAR-wise with 8s and 9s is good for any baby, much less premature ones. Fantastic!
The APGARs are whole numbers, usually scored at 1 minute and 5 minutes of life -- sometimes a third time at 10 min -- and what they probably received was something like 8-and-? and 9-and-9. That is how they are usually reported.
It's interesting stuff, although I worry a little about people whose baby has a low first number. The APGARs only speak to those first few minutes of life, and there isn't any predictive value for longterm outcomes. So getting high early is great (!), and it means they perked up right away, but if anyone here has or had a baby with low initial APGARs (as often happens with C-sections), please don't think that means anything in and of itself in terms of the future for the baby.
Parenting Weekly has a great little article on APGAR scoring that also gives a breakdown of the actual scale numbers.
Anyway, good for the babies, cmc! That is so fantastic.
[ August 22, 2008, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
cmc - Yay for the twins doing so well! It sounds like they are doing fantastic! I was very happy that Beanie had 8-9 on her APGARs (she was a c-section and full term).
Brinestone - That's how much Beanie weighed 2 months ago (at 6 months). You've got a big guy there!
I'm trying hard not to rip my hair out. Beanie is obviously having some problems (I'm wondering if she's finally cutting the teeth that have been bothering her for 6 months) and at night will spend several hours waking up every 20-30 mins. She's also been really grumpy and not napping well during the day either. I just can't figure out what to do to help her and it's really frustrating. Coupled with me being so tired, I'm having a hard week. Yesterday though, she reminded me why I love being home with her (because I was starting to forget). She was chewing on her plastic keys and took them out of her mouth and put them up to my mouth. I pretended to chew on them for a few seconds before letting her take them back. She did that several times over the next few minutes. It made me a little teary over my sweet little girl. Silly girl still has no interest in crawling (and gets really mad during tummy time) but she loves standing up against the couch arm.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
*non-mommy pokes head in*
One of the most memorable moments for us with our first son was when he did a double-pretend: he pretended the picture of some food on the outside of the package was real, and he pretended to feed pieces to me and my wife in between his own pretend bites. It was the first act of pretending that we were aware of...plus it was really kind of touching that he was sharing. I do believe he was around 8 or 9 months of age, too. So I can relate, ludosti!
*ducks out*
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: She was chewing on her plastic keys and took them out of her mouth and put them up to my mouth. I pretended to chew on them for a few seconds before letting her take them back. She did that several times over the next few minutes. It made me a little teary over my sweet little girl.
In case you had owies, too.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah that was my thought - "Since chewing on keys makes my mouth feel better, I should give them to mommy so her mouth can feel better too!"
I love it when kids share! It's so cute. She's been handing us her toys for the last week or 2 but sharing her keys to chew on was different.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
My kids like sharing Oreos, once they've made them safe for adult consumption by licking out the white filling.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My daughter's first pretend that we noticed was feeding the dog. She would run over to his bag, pretend to grab food (it was closed so she couldn't get actual food) and then run to the dog and give it to him. Poor doggy looked so disappointed. Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Well - the girls have names... Olivia Rose and Grace Elaine. They're both doing really well... Still nothing wrong with them, they just need to keep growing. One of the girls is getting a little help breathing again, but there are no problems. Also - one girl (not sure which one, didn't ask) has a slight heart murmur but the docs said it could fix itself and they'll check her again before she goes home... Also - they were both 16 inches long. I feel like they were HUGE for just 29 weeks...
It's pretty sweet that they're doing so well. : )
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
What beautiful names! I'm glad they're doing so well.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Don't know if anyone's interested, but figured I'd give a little update...
So - Olivia's the bigger girl. Pat and Laurie got to hold her for a while today and they were pretty psyched. I guess both girls sometimes forget to breathe, so they've got an IV with something in it that helps them remember... Also both girls have lost the 10% they expected them to lose so now is the time where they hopefully start to gain some 'good weight' back. I guess it's a good thing that they lose the weight because a lot of it is fluid and it can be taxing on their organs. Both girls are taking breast milk and also getting supplemental food straight into their belly. They're hoping to gradually increase the breast milk and decrease the other...
So - as for their neurological scans, I don't know much about how it works but I guess there's a scale of 0-4, with 4 being the worst. The scale has something to do with the flow of blood to their brains (ftr - this is nowhere near technical - this is me trying to reiterate what pat told me). Grace was at a 0, which is awesome and which the Drs and Nurses were a little surprised at. Olivia's at a 2... this means that they'll monitor her. I guess if it gets to a 3, then she's got to have surgery. Fingers crossed...
All in all, though, they're doing really well. Oh - and Olivia seems to have blondish hair, while Grace has got black hair... That's about all I've got for now. : )
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'm so glad to hear they're doing well! I hope Olivia will continue to improve and get to 0 like her sister.
Poor Beanie really isn't sleeping well and I'm a mess. The last couple nights she's gotten worse and hasn't slept longer than an hour pretty much all night. I really wish I knew what the problem is and how to fix it (as much for my benefit as for hers).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
ludosti, how old is she? Have you ruled out: teething, ear infection, change of environment (much hotter or colder than usual, changed location of crib/bassinet, changed schedule), allergic response to something new (in your diet, in her diet, shampoo, detergent, lotion)?
cmc, that's wonderful that they're doing so well! And clearly they're already distinct individuals, which is pretty cool.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Right there with you, ludosti. Nathaniel had been a pretty good sleeper until the past couple of weeks (he'd wake to nurse once or twice but sleep for solid 3 to 5 hour blocks in between).
It seems like it is/ was teething, and since it coincides with me going back to work, I think it's also related to that.
What has helped a LOT is co-sleeping. While I would prefer for him to be in his own bed--I sleep better when he's sleeping there--if he's not going to sleep there, then I sleep better when he's sleeping with me. If that makes any sense. Anyway, right now that is what is working for us. I will worry later about getting him back out of our bed.
cmc, I haven't commented before but I have been sending prayers and well-wishes the way of the twins.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
She's 8 months old. There haven't been any changes of any kind and I'm pretty sure it's not an ear infection. She's been teething on and off since she was 2 months old, so I suspect that's what it is, but she's never been this badly affected before. I'm actually hoping maybe she's getting ready to cut her teeth since things have been so much worse this time. I've been trying things like Tylenol and Orajel (that have helped at night in the past), and while they work well during the day, they're not helping at night at all. At least last night she slept in mostly one hour stretches and would go back to sleep quickly for me, so things were a little bit better.
This weekend I was thinking about going back to co-sleeping, but things would have to be a little different and I haven't figured out the logistics. For her first few months she slept in a little co-sleeper in our bed, but since my husband is a very heavy sleeper (and she's too big for it), we can't really do that again. In the middle of the night I did consider putting her in a giant round chair we have in our room (with all the pillows removed, of course) and I would sleep on the open side (so she couldn't roll anywhere), but I didn't try it yet.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If she's 8 months old, she could be wanting more in the way of solid foods. If that seems like it might be part of it, try discussing with your pediatrician what you can add. Cereal is popular as a way to help babies fill up their tummies.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
She seems like she's almost ready for solids. I'm planning to talk to the pediatrician and my allergist about what things to introduce first.
She had been doing really well up until about a week ago. She'd normally only wake up twice at night. I think a lot of her current waking up at night is because of discomfort. Last night, for example, she'd wake up and start crying, but would drop off if I held her for a couple minutes. She also would want to nurse, even if she wasn't hungry, so I think a lot of it is a comfort issue. I just wish I knew how to get rid of whatever is bothering her.
[ August 25, 2008, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
James started having trouble sleeping around five months. I started giving him 4 tablespoons of rice cereal once a day (at the pediatrician's recommendation), and he started sleeping through the night. It doesn't work like that for everyone, but it could definitely help!
Now he's almost seven months old and we've been introducing other solids with great success (something new every five to seven days) and I've increased the rice cereal feedings to twice a day. I've also increased the amount I give him at those feedings. I'm also nursing every 3-4 hours during the day. Not every baby needs as many solids as James, but he's so active that he seems to burn all his calories as fast as I can get them into him! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Heh. Neither of mine would eat rice cereal (or any cereal) for more than a couple of days, unless it was mixed with something else. Bridey wouldn't even eat it at all the first two times we gave it to her, she spit it out.
Her first food she actually ate ended up being mashed bananas.
I'm thinking of starting Maggie on something other than cereal, too, and just sneaking it in like I did with the other kids. (I used it quite often with Bridey to thicken her Stage 1 foods because neither kid liked them pureed that fine, they wanted some texture for their food, thanks much.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Not that she's quite ready to eat yet. I have some criteria for when I let my kids have food that she hasn't quite met yet. My list goes:
-At least 4 months old but preferably closer to 6-- she's about 4 months now -Has doubled birth weight-- almost there, we'll see at 4 month checkup -Shows interest in solids-- very much there -Sits unassisted in a chair (not using towels or whatever to prop baby up) or at least sits well in Exersaucer-- she's not quite there either but we're washing off the Exersaucer to try her in it soon!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'll have to keep in mind the idea about mashed bananas. Given the reactions Beanie has had to flavored medication (and even trying to get her to try water out of a sippie cup), getting her to try foods will be interesting. I've been waiting for her to express interest, which she has just recently begun doing. I'd also hoped to make it to 8 months before that interest kicked in, so it looks like things are falling into place. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
When John got too big for the co-sleeper we got a bedrail and he slept between me and the bedrail.
There were nights during the horrible teething phase when he was latched on most of the night. It was hideous for me, but it really did seem to help him and just when I got to the point that I couldn't stand it any longer the teeth popped through and he went back to sleeping longer. So, if it is teething, just keep reminding yourself that it will end.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
When you guys are talking about co-sleepers, do you mean something like this one (a separate little cot that sits next to the bed with one open side) or this (a little bed that goes in the main bed)?
I'm starting to think about what we will do for our one at the beginning. We had thought a bassinet, but maybe something more attached to our bed would work better.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
We had a little bouncer that monster slept in. We moved it into our bed between my husband and I for a while. Then we shifted it to the floor, then a little further away, and then she moved into her bassinet and finally to a crib.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We have the Arm's Reach mini, from the company that you linked. Honestly, it was most often used to hold stuff and as a nighttime changing table. It also makes a good bedrail, since I rarely actually put the kid back in it after nursing. John did sleep in it better after we added a little padding to the cardboard mattress though -- not a lot, just one layer of the batting that is used to make playpen mattresses.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
My husband picked up one of these - the kind that goes in the bed. It was wonderful for our situation. I had to stay downstairs for a couple weeks (and our bedrooms are upstairs), so she could sleep with me (on the couch) and then when I could go upstairs again her bed could go up there with us. When she got too big for it (at about 2.5 or 3 months) we moved her into a cradle (the same one my brother and I slept in when we were little) and kept it at my side of the bed. She only recently moved out of it into her crib (about a month ago). I've heard great things about the Arm's Reach co-sleepers and had thought about getting one. I probably would have gotten one if we hadn't had the cradle.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
ludosti, I would strongly recommend against co-sleeping on a chair. There is a much great risk of SUDI (Sudden Unexplained Death of Infant) in infants who slept with their parents on couches or couch-like chairs. As I understand it, the risk is that the child will either suffocate against the back or arm of the couch or may become wedged between the seat and the back or arm. There is also the risk of having the baby's head too close to the arm or back, which would cause him to breathe recirculated air. One of the public health officials who spoke at a March of Dimes board meeting told us that they're going to give "couch death" its own designation because it's a growing problem. I think a bedrail of some sort or a co-sleeper is a much safer option.
A friend of mine got a twin mattress and put it against the wall in her baby's room and co-slept like that whenever the baby needed her. In the interest of full disclosure, I do have to say that her daughter is now 4 and has never slept through the night and won't sleep on her own (which may or may not have to do with the co-sleeping).
One Step Ahead has a neat-looking teether that is like a binky for the back teeth. The Teethifier Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah, I held off because I knew that sleep deprivation can cloud judgment. Good to know I wasn't far off.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie sleeps in our bed without anything. I don't worry about her falling out because she sleeps on my arm all night... If she wiggles I wake up and hold her tighter instinctively.
Of course, this is my third baby. I'm a lot more laid-back about these things...
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
BTW, I think I might have mentioned this before, but we always gave Aerin her meds from a syringe. A lot of the preemies like the sensation of having something squirted into their mouths. Who knows why?
cmc, they're giving the babies caffine to remind them to breathe. Aerin was on that for a long, long time. Don't worry, it won't affect them like it would a term baby and they'll be off it by the time they get to term age. I'm not sure what they're getting in their feeding tubes. Aerin only ever got breastmilk and MCT oil (which is basically fat, because she was very slow to gain weight).
Your family should prepare for a roller coaster ride. That's really the best way to describe the NICU experience. A preemie's condition can change so much from one minute to the next. Remember that they're much tougher than they look. Please let us know how they're doing whenever you get the chance. They're in my prayers.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Thanks for all the well wishes!!!
Does this work? I'm new to the YouTube thang... Video of the Girls... Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*sniffle*
Yeah, it works. Great music choice.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Awwww!!! I was even listening to that album earlier this morning - weird!
Well, as if the sleeping problems aren't enough, I now suspect Beanie is getting sick. She woke up this morning with a goopy eye and has had a runny nose all morning. Her eye looks fine, but they're both weepy today. She's acting like her normal self and doesn't have a fever, which is good. Now I can't decide if I should call her doctor or not. She's never been sick before and I don't want to be one of those parents that freaks out about every little thing. Bah! Maybe I'll wait and see how she does today and if she gets worse I can call them tomorrow.
[ August 27, 2008, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Well, her eyelid was a little red this morning so I called the doctor's office. They were able to get me right in (I just had time to get ready and drive there in time for the appointment). The good news is that is cold is very mild (no ear problems, no throat problems, no lung problems), which is what I was expecting/hoping for. The bad news is she does have pinkeye (where did she get that?!), but at least it is also very mild, so she may only need a couple days of eye drops (which is good because I'm not looking forward to trying to do eye drops).
Now if she would just sleep! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Jeff got pinkeye when Emma was a baby. The doc who treated him asked if anyone in the family had a cold. (Yep, Emma and me.) He said that some germs that cause cold-type symptoms can cause pinkeye if they get in the eye. Jeff had been rubbing his eyes because he was tired (a bad habit he still has sometimes) without washing his hands after touching other parts of his face, or our faces. So...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Oh, and interestingly enough, the last time I told this story was when a friend who had newborn twins was telling me that her husband had a swollen oozing eye and I said, "It sounds like conjunctivitis" and she said, "But where would he get that???")
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Interesting! When she rubbed her eyes she must have transferred something to her eye, causing the pinkeye. She does quite a bit of eye rubbing because, unfortunately, it's her first indication that she's tired. At least she's still happy today, in spite of her stuffy/runny nose. Our first dose of eye drops went ok, now to see how quickly she learns to anticipate it...
It's cute - today she's grabbing my hand to put things in it. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Oh, man. Nursing strikes are horrible. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ugh. Good luck.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ouchies.
Hope it ends soon!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
>_<
Ow. Hope it's a short one!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Not so much ow. I'm expressing milk and getting it into him, but he refuses to nurse. Of course, I go through about an hour of screaming before resorting to expressing because I want him to nurse. I'm 90% sure it's because he's teething. One bottom tooth is through, and the other one is close behind.
The crying (his) and feelings of helplessness and rejection are the worst. It's so hard to see your baby hungry and upset but not be able to do what needs to be done because he won't let me.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*hug*
Poor baby. Poor mommy!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
While we're on the topic of expressing milk, why do so many people recommend pumps over hand expressing? My hand pump hardly got any milk, it didn't do well at getting a letdown, it made a bit of a mess, and it was uncomfortable. It's a little weird milking myself like a cow, but it works a whole lot better, at least in my experience. Was I using the pump wrong? Am I unusually good at hand expressing? Or is it just a matter of women being weirded out by handling their own breasts this way?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I've never tried a hand pump, but with a double electric I can pump 8 oz of milk in less than ten minutes while reading a book. I've hand expressed a few times (when I didn't have the pump), and it's not nearly so efficient.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It may be that you have unusually shaped breasts, letdown, etc.
Electric pumps are generally much more efficient than hand pumps. I found that the way pumps, either hand or electric, even medical-grade, stimulated my breasts caused mastitis every time I tried, while I can safely express by hand, but it is very time consuming, even though I make LOTS of milk and get more by hand expressing than many women I know do by pumping.
I've been feeding Maggie cereal lately (we skipped rice and went straight to "oatmeal and bananas" cereal-- her first food was bananas) and she likes it better with milk, so most nights I just squirt it straight into the bowl of cereal, by hand. I am guessing many women would feel weird/like a cow doing this, but for me, I don't really have another option, unless I want to express into storage bags, then dump from there to the bowl, or whatever, which seems like it would be a big waste of dishes and milk...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
My mother can (well, could, given that my youngest sib is in college ) express neatly and her aim is great. So she only ever used a pump when she was pumping for a milk bank. She could express a 4 oz. bottle in a matter of minutes.
I am more endowed and more of a klutz than my mom. When I tried to express, I ended up wet, sticky, and frustrated. A good pump, however, was wonderful -- both the good electric (a Medella) and even a good hand pump (and "good" for me, after quite a bit of experimentation, meant a simple straight-cylinder pump).
(And mind, my mother tried to teach me how to express properly. I just couldn't do it. Not without making a huge mess, anyway. )
I guess the moral of the story is: every woman's breasts -- and hands -- are different. What works for one may not work for another. Also, even a really good hand pump is not nearly as efficient as a moderately good electric pump.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I'll take that one step further -- your breasts can even be different for different babies! I could barely squeeze a drop with hand or pump when nursing my first. Now, with my second, I have bags and bags of emergency milk in the freezer and when I keep up with it, can get 4-6 ounces in a single pumping session.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I'l update my earlier post because I set a personal record this morning -- 8oz in 5 minutes. And it was still coming fast, but I stopped because that was more than I'll need for today.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Quick update on the twins, just in case anyone was wondering...
They're both about 4 and a half pounds, being bottle fed and breathing 100% on their own. Still no new news on their neurological state, the docs say that that'll be something that gets found out as they get older and develop more. They're in the area of the NICU that's one step away from being out the door - so we're all pretty happy about it.
I got to hold them a couple of weekends back - they're SOOOO tiny!!! Olivia was totally alert, though, and kept looking up at me and when nurses would walk by she'd track them. I don't claim to know anything about premies, but for some reason that made me feel good... When I was singing to her, the baby in my belly started moving around and literally kicking her in the butt. I told Olivia she needed to hurry up and get stronger, otherwise her cousin was going to be kicking her butt forever... ; )
Thanks to everyone who thought good thoughts for them and said prayers... They're working.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Nathaniel is a tad over 5 months, and has decided to wake up at 12:30 every night, and then off and on the rest of the night. Before this change, he was known to sleep 8+ hours straight, essentially from birth (I know, we're very lucky parents).
We haven't introduced solids yet because 1) Mom isn't quite ready to let go of her little boy, and 2) He is occassionally getting very constipated on formula (he's been weaned for a month or two because lack of estrogen was causing Mom not to heal well from the birth).
Could it be a "I'm ready for real food" thing? He's a big boy (75th for weight, off the charts for length), could that exacerbate it? We still have been feeding him at the normal nighttime feed, and just calming him the other wakeups.
-Bok
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It could be the "ready for mushy food" (it's not real food, that comes later ), but it could also be several other things, including an ear infection. I would call the pediatrician for a chat.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Babies go through a lot of changes between 3 and 6 months, and sometimes moms think this means they are ready for baby food but I tend to think that most aren't ready. Keep in mind that when they first get baby food, it's not for nutrition or to fill them up -- that's what breast milk or formula is for -- it's to practice. They won't get enough substance to matter for a few months, so the signs of readiness should really have more to do with baby's ability to eat, feed themselves, and their interest level.
My daughter is 4 months old and was sleeping 6-8 hours through the night until about a month ago, when she started teething. Now she's up a lot at night. It's very frustrating. We're working on moving her to her own crib this week to see if it helps. (Well, that and she's started to scoot so I don't feel safe having her in my bed anymore.)
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: It could be the "ready for mushy food" (it's not real food, that comes later ), but it could also be several other things, including an ear infection. I would call the pediatrician for a chat.
I thought of that, but he's fine during the day. I guess I'll talk it over with Mom tonight.
-Bok
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I had one kid whose only symptom when he had an ear infection was trouble sleeping. No ear rubbing, no fever, no real crankiness. This was also the child who just sat there when another kid bit him -- he was pretty stoic. (At 11, he is way whinier! )
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Of course, considering that research has now shown that the wait-and-see approach is prudent in most ear infections in young children, you might not need to do anything yet even if he has one...
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Our doctor prefers the "wait and see" approach for ear infections, but he does reccommend tylenol and/or motrin if it's keeping the kid from sleeping or if there are other signals that they're in pain.
Our old doctor, I should say. I really need to find a doctor in this state . . . we moved when Charles was 2 weeks old and we're a month overdue for his 2 month check up, missed my 6 week check up, and now it's time for John's 2 year check up and I still haven't found a new doctor. Bad mommy!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Of course, considering that research has now shown that the wait-and-see approach is prudent in most ear infections in young children
I was under the impression that was debated, but given that my youngest is 9, I could be out of date.
Regardless, it's a good idea to figure out what's going on, even if it then means doing nothing.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That's true.
And yeah, there was a big huge study done in the UK and it's pretty well accepted, at least by all the peds at the clinic I take Maggie to and the ped the Ems and Bridey see at Kaiser, and the peds my mom works with. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
A single study, no matter how huge, is not usually enough to change standard practice. Pretty sure many pediatricians I know still consider antibiotics the standard of care.
Googling is providing answers all along the range, as I would expect. Most are suggesting antibiotics in children under 2 if the infection is definite, and I don't think I've ever had a kid over that age with an ear infection. Internal, anyway. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, one ped cited five different studies to me-- but that was the hugest and most recent.
My ped prescribes for kids under 6 months with a definite infection, kids under 1 year who spike a fever over 101 with a confirmed infection or in whom it persists more than 3 days in, and older kids it persists more than a week in.
I still get ear infections. As well as chronic OME (swimmer's ear.) Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I had one kid whose only symptom when he had an ear infection was trouble sleeping. No ear rubbing, no fever, no real crankiness. This was also the child who just sat there when another kid bit him -- he was pretty stoic. (At 11, he is way whinier! )
My son's only symptom was his ear drum bursting. Several times. He never rubbed, slept fine, no fever, no sickness, no crankiness. He seems to have a very high tolerance for pain.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Or it just didn't hurt. Apparently that's possible. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
As long as we (were) talking about pumping...
Nathaniel's 9 month appointment was yesterday and his pediatrician was not happy with his weight gain. (He gained 2.5 lbs from 4 months to 6 months and only 1 lb. from 6 to 9.) I had been sending 8 oz to daycare (which I could pump in one session) along with 2 meals of solids. He nurses at 7:45 AM and 4:15 PM. She now wants me to send 16 oz plus 2 meals of solids, which just seems like a lot. I pumped 3x today at work and got...8 oz. (Well, maybe 8.25 oz.) Really what she wants me to do is supplement with formula, while I would like that to be a last resort.
Ugh. Well, I'm pumping away. In the meantime for this week I'm focusing on adding at least one nursing session while we're home. I'm also not feeding a 3rd meal of solids (she wants me to, but she also wants him to get more breastmilk, which seems like a contradiction. I suspect that eating solids at 6:30ish would actually keep him from nursing as much at 8, right before bed.)
I don't really know what to think. I haven't been back at work all that long (4 weeks), so it seems like the problem (if there is one) must have started sooner. In any case, it made me very grumpy to be told that my supply had clearly diminished, the baby was hungry, he needed to be eating infant cereal twice a day and three meals of solids a day to include meats, yogurt, cheese, eggs, Cheerios, pancakes with syrup, and butter and cheese sauce on everything plus snacks plus at least 32 oz. of breastmilk which meant 16 oz. while I'm at work and if I can't pump that much then add formula.
At least we agreed that he doesn't need juice.
As for all of the solid foods she wants me to start, like, yesterday: Nathaniel was 6 weeks premature, so his gestational age is only 8 months. I was waiting until the PEDIATRICIAN APPOINTMENT to ask about starting the solids you usually wait until 9 months to start: dairy, meats, and eggs.
So I'm torn. I have no problem with replacing low-calorie solids like fruits and vegetables with higher-calorie dairy/ meats...but I'm also going to go slowly, especially with dairy. And pancakes? Are you kidding me? He doesn't even have a pincer grasp yet. He just mastered sitting up independently maybe 3 weeks ago.
I have no problem with deliberately nursing more. Nathaniel doesn't really "ask" that often any more...I'm happy to offer every 1.5-2 hours instead of every 3 or so.
I have no problem with the pediatrician being concerned about his weight gain. I'm concerned myself.
I just really hated that the first thing out of her mouth was "formula." With a baby over 6 months, aren't there really other options to try first?
OK, vent over.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
First of all, the majority of the benefits of formula have accrued by the age of 6 months. So if that's your concern, don't worry. If it were me, I'd try to avoid formula if possible and increase my supply, but if that's going to be very difficult, I would consider the formula option.
By the time my kids were that age, if they were away from me all day, I was leaving two of the big bottles -- 7-8 ounces apiece. I phased in solids a bit more slowly than what you're describing, but if you're having trouble getting your supply up, increasing solids are another option.
Is there any way you and he can spend all or most of the coming weekend in bed, nursing as often as possible? That's the only way I ever found to get my supply up when it was low (after I or the baby had had a bad cold, for example).
And supply can drop pretty quickly. The 4 weeks you've been working would be plenty of time.
Good luck!
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Liz, I know how frustrating the weight issue is with a preemie. Aerin is barely in the 25th percentile at age 3 and it drives me crazy, even though she's otherwise perfectly healthy.
Are you generally happy with your pediatrician? If you're reluctant to take her advice, maybe you'd be better off seeing someone else. My ped practice includes a former neonatologist and a pediatrician who's been seeing preemies for more than 10 years and I find they understand preemie issues much better than other peds. The pancakes with syrup really throws me - I've never heard of a doctor recommending that. I was told to avoid eggs because of the possibility of food allergies (as well as strawberries and several other foods - I have the list around here somewhere). I was also told to introduce foods one at a time at approximately 1-week intervals. Of course, every baby is different and Aerin had major reflux and is a very picky eater.
I have to say that formula does put weight on preemies faster than breastmilk alone. They started supplementing my breastmilk with formula when Aerin was in the PICU with pneumonia and she gained MUCH faster than she had before.
Preemie feeding and weight issues are NOT the same as term-baby feeding and weight issues. There comes a time when you have to weigh the benefits of exclusive breastmilk with the dangers of slow weight gain. This is much more serious in a preemie than in a term baby. If your doctor is concerned enough to suggest quickly introducing a high-calorie, high fat diet, it suggests that she feels his slow weight gain is a serious problem. I have to say that I find it concerning, too. If I were you, I would supplement with formula. I don't see why you can't mix it with your breastmilk, though - that's what we did with Aerin. Aerin did much better on Similac NeoSure than on the Enfamil EnfaCare.
A lot of preemie moms have problems with supply. I had to pump for 45 minutes just to get 8 ounces. I tried blessed thisle and fenugreek, but Reglan ultimately helped me much more.
Do y'all have a developmental follow-up clinic or something similar? If so, you can always call them for ideas and advice. You can even call the NICU and see what they think.
Best of luck - you'll be in my prayers.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Of course, you're also at the point where many breastfed babies have a slowdown in weight gain.
Is she using the breastfed babies growth chart, or the formula fed babies growth chart? There is a difference.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: That's true.
And yeah, there was a big huge study done in the UK and it's pretty well accepted, at least by all the peds at the clinic I take Maggie to and the ped the Ems and Bridey see at Kaiser, and the peds my mom works with.
The methods and generalizability of that sudy have been negatively critiqued in the evidence-based literature. One of the problems with that study -- and it's abig problem -- is that the dosing of the antibiotic in the intervention group was markedly less than is the standard in the States (about 3X less, IIRC, and I may not). A different dosing may have shown a greater difference between the control and intervention groups.
That being said, I think there is good reason not to automatically give antibiotics to every ear infection. There are good guidelines put out by the APA regarding using age and severity as guiding factors in the decision.
I'm also a big fan of topical anesthetic for eardrums, provided it is prescribed judiciously and (very important!) used effectively.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The topical anesthetic can be a BIG help.
That's what I usually get when I get an ear infection. Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My baby was breastfed, but not a preemie, so there might be differences. At 9 months, she just stopped gaining weight. For about 6 months, she was 19 pounds 4 ounces. She went from like 75/50 percentile to 10th. My dr was not at all concerned. She seemed healthy and active, like she was getting enough food, she just was using all of it to crawl and walk. The great thing was that she stayed in one clothing size for like 6 months, instead of the 3 they are listed at.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
So, PETA is trying to get companies to use breast milk in their products. Somehow, this does not seem at all feasible to me. Or something most customers would want.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Liz -- I don't know how the premature aspect changes things, but it is very normal for breast fed babies to slow down their weight gain between 6 and 12 months.
And the other thing is that you have to look at more than just numbers when determining if weight gain is a problem. Babies don't always follow charts. They can't read. It's more important that they are healthy and developing properly than that the number on a scale says any particular thing.
Anecdote: My son only put on 12 ounces between 4 and 6 months, dropping him to the floor of the percentile charts. I was concerned, but my doctor was not. After I thought about it, I realized there wasn't any reason to be -- whatever his weight he was eating as much as he chose and he was healthy. So why mess with that?
I would definitely send formula to daycare if he seems to want more than the 8 ounces you are sending. But if that's all he wants, then I'm not even sure how you would feed it to him.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
So, PETA is trying to get companies to use breast milk in their products. Somehow, this does not seem at all feasible to me. Or something most customers would want.
Wow. Just wow.
For the record, I've considered experimenting with my own pumped milk in cooking...just out of curiosity. I can't say I would buy products made out of human breast milk, though. I know how much work it takes to pump every ounce and am not sure how it would work, anyway.
Posted by Minerva (Member # 2991) on :
I once took a cheese-making class in which one of the participants wanted to make yogurt with her own milk.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Jon Boy is squicked out that I've even tasted my own milk. This is one of the weirdest ideas I've ever read about. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It looks more like an attention-grabber than a serious suggestion to me. They're also using the "no, breast-milk is for babies" reaction to make the point that cows' milk is for baby cows. And probably plan to use the "ick" reaction to point out that cow milk is cow breast milk.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
It won't work...they'll get people's attention and a huge ICK factor but no one will link it to cow's milk or the baby cows.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I have no problem with drinking breast milk in theory. But given that any "donor" might be sick, a smoker, etc., I think I'll pass.
Too bad, though. Breast milk is parve (neither meat nor dairy). Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Thanks so much for the support, everyone!
quote:Is there any way you and he can spend all or most of the coming weekend in bed, nursing as often as possible? That's the only way I ever found to get my supply up when it was low (after I or the baby had had a bad cold, for example).
And supply can drop pretty quickly. The 4 weeks you've been working would be plenty of time.
Thank you so much for the super-quick response, rivka. I didn't have a chance to post again last night, but I read this and was like--duh. Nursing vacation! I can't do it all weekend, but I can pretty much from Friday afternoon to Sunday after lunch. I'm not sure how happy he'll be with spending the day in bed (don't think he'll put up with it, actually) but no reason we can't hang out together in the basement, resting and playing and nursing all day.
And I had forgotten how quickly supply can drop. I haven't had even a shred of a supply problem, even early on with the pump, so it's just not something I thought much about. The good thing is that my supply seems to be increasing pretty quickly. I pumped almost 11 oz. today in 2 sessions. If I can consistently get it up to 12 I'll be happy.
quote: Preemie feeding and weight issues are NOT the same as term-baby feeding and weight issues. There comes a time when you have to weigh the benefits of exclusive breastmilk with the dangers of slow weight gain.
Mrs. M., that is exactly the perspective I needed. He's been doing so well for so long that I sort of forgot about that. I don't think he's in any kind of a danger zone at this point--and the pediatrician was clear that she wasn't worried, just concerned, if that makes sense--but it's important to keep a clear head about what's really important.
quote:Are you generally happy with your pediatrician?
Overall, yes. She's not my favorite doctor at the practice, but she's good. I just thought some of the advice this time was contradictory (OK, weird), and I was frustrated that her immediate solution was supplementing with formula.
quote: Of course, you're also at the point where many breastfed babies have a slowdown in weight gain.
Is she using the breastfed babies growth chart, or the formula fed babies growth chart? There is a difference.
She even mentioned that this is when babies often "find" their percentile, moving from (say) 50th to 10th. It really was a weird appointment--she was all, "don't worry, but change everything right NOW."
As for the chart, she's using the CDC chart which is a representative sample--both formula & breast fed babies--which doesn't reflect the typical curve for breast fed babies...BUT he's fallen off the curve for breast-fed, too, although not by as much. That's why I'm concerned.
Christine and scholarette, it helped to hear about your kids' weight gain patterns. The thing is, Nathaniel is cheerful and happy and meeting developmental milestones. He's behind on some, but is still doing awfully well for a preemie, and he's ahead on others.
Still, it won't hurt to send some extra milk. If I'm pumping 12 oz (which I think I'll be able to do consistently by next week) and he drinks all of that, then if I can't pump more I'll send an extra 4 oz. of formula for the sitter to offer AFTER he's had all of the breastmilk and solids.
And as for breastmilk in ice cream...well, that would solve my problem for Nathaniel, wouldn't it? High calorie, high fat, AND baby milk all in one. Maybe they would make a mushy jarred banana flavor.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I have actually made "milksicles" when my babies are sick or teething, with frozen breastmilk, with or without mashed fruit added.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Nursing vacation! I can't do it all weekend, but I can pretty much from Friday afternoon to Sunday after lunch. I'm not sure how happy he'll be with spending the day in bed (don't think he'll put up with it, actually) but no reason we can't hang out together in the basement, resting and playing and nursing all day.
I was dealing with younger babies when I had temporary supply issues, but bed isn't the key ingredient. Especially if you're already seeing such a dramatic increase in supply, I bet that'll help a lot.
And hey, if you have extra, you can just make ice cream. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I would never actually do it, but I will admit to wondering about making cheese/butter/yogurt out of breastmilk. I also wondered if breastmilk counts as an animal product (I am a mammal, but am not being exploited to produce the milk - where does that fall?) or if my fruit-and-veg only baby was actually a vegan before I gave her meat and cheese.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I'm pretty sure Duplo has reflux. Bad reflux. I've read about "happy spitters" and assumed he was one, but the truth is, there are days when he just erupts all day long in huge amounts. He refuses to nurse, he sometimes vomits more than an hour after eating, he soaks whole outfits, and he cries in pain. I thought it was something I was eating, so I've tried lots of elimination diets. I've eliminated chocolate, dairy, and, just recently everything on the potentially bad list. That means that for three days, I haven't eaten onions, green pepper, broccoli, cabbage, chocolate, dairy, citrus, cinnamon, curry, garlic, cayenne pepper, or chili powder. He still spit up some, but it was greatly reduced. Today I added dairy back in because I was pretty sure that wasn't it (since I'd tried it before). Today he's having a really bad day. I'm not sure if that's because of the dairy or because I had some cherry apple juice yesterday . . . was it too acidic? Was it the barbecued beef brisket I had for dinner last night? (I'm not sure what was in the sauce.)
Ugh. The thing is, I'm getting to the point where I realize that if it is something I'm eating, it's not just one thing. And if I have to go off, say, dairy and onions or dairy and spicy foods or whatever, I will have virtually nothing left to make for dinner.
At what point do you go to the doctor and ask for a prescription for antacids? Has anyone here had to do that?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, in the very least, I'd go to the doctor.
I'd bring a log of when he is spitting, how much, how much he's had to eat.
I'd ask how his weight is.
My ped doesn't prescribe for reflux unless it's resulting in weight problems or extreme discomfort (crying all the time) and other things (i.e., positioning and diet, etc.) have already failed.
It sounds like you've done the second part, trying other things, and so if it's really causing extreme problems, it might be time to try a medication. So I'd at least go in and talk about it!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
His weight is fine, mostly, I think, because he started off big and nurses a lot. So despite the spitting, he is still 70th percentile or something.
And he's generally a mellow baby, so when he cries, I know it's because he's really hurting. Some days he cries for an hour or more before nursing or sleeping. I'm not sure if that's excessive, though.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I'd definitely go to the doctor. I get the impression from the mom's group I'm in that a lot of babies get reflux meds for what seems like a lot less than what you're describing. Poor baby! (And poor mama, too!)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If he weren't way too old, I'd worry about pyloric stenosis. Since his age rules that out, it sure sounds like reflux to this layperson! Definitely go see the pediatrician.
quote:Poor baby! (And poor mama, too!)
Amen.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It sounds a lot like what Charles was doing before I cut dairy. He'd cry inconsolably for almost 2 hours, wouldn't nurse, wouldn't sleep. Then he'd projectile vomit more volume than I thought could possibly be in him. Then he'd take a deep breath and spit out even more. Then he'd be calm and nurse to sleep. It got to the point that this was happening every day, late afternoon or early evening. I thought I was going to go crazy. I was going to take him to the doctor when Ela suggested the dairy idea, and it's made a world of difference.
He still spits up more often than John did (which was pretty much never) but the horrible crying periods are gone and he only has a major spit-up maybe once or twice a week. And even those aren't "how the heck were you storing that much liquid in that little body?!?" events.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
From what I've read, if reflux is diet related (and it isn't always...it wasn't for me), it is dairy and soy that are to blame. There isn't any real evidence linking any other food to reflux problems (according to "The Happiest Baby on the Block", which I recommend). The thing about dairy and soy is that they are hidden in things and if you have a really sensitive baby you may need to search for hidden dairy. I found out the other day from a woman whose daughter was diagnosed with a severe dairy allergy (sickness triggered) that many packaged lunch meats have dairy in them! Soy is a cheap filler used in so many things it would make your head spin.
I would definitely see a doctor if the reflux is severe. My DD had some reflux but it wasn't severe. I tried the dairy elimination (a little half-heartedly...I didn't cut out hidden dairy) and saw no improvement. I asked the doctor about it and he said since she wasn't having any health problems he didn't want to medicate and that if it didn't improve by about 3 months, to call him. You know what? Magically, at about 3 months, it improved! There really is a lot of truth to babies growing out of this. In fact, even if the dairy and soy elimination diet works for you, I would recommend testing those foods after a few months to see if your baby can tolerate them. Many women find their babies outgrow it. By breast feeding you are giving your baby the best chance of not having those allergies later on. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Well, he's almost four months old now, so I'm not sure when he'll grow out of it. I guess I'll go back off dairy now that I've had a response from going back on it and see what happens.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good luck.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Good luck.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Brinestone: It took my neighbor's daughter 8 months to outgrow it. Her son is almost a year old and may have a permanent dairy allergy, most unfortunately. You never can tell. I've heard as early as 3 months and as late as never.
Good lucK!
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Aerin was a champion refluxer. I had no clean clothes for months. At different points, she was on Reglan, Pepcid, and Zantac. They all helped. It's important to keep in mind that the meds won't stop the reflux, they'll just keep it from burning as it comes up.
It really helped to feed Aerin upright, particularly in her Bumbo seat. We kept her upright for 30 minutes after eating.
Her overall digestion improved when we switched from cow milk to rice milk (soy milk was a disaster), fwiw.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Double post from Sakeriver:
I have a breastfeeding question. James is eight months old, and aside from introducing him to solids in recent months, he has been exclusively breastfed (no formula). For the past few months, though, when I nurse him he often pushes against my chest with all his strength at the same time as he sucks. It prevents him from getting a good latch (and it's quite painful for me!). It has become a bigger problem in recent weeks because he's growing, getting stronger, and for some reason is doing it at basically every feeding. It turns our nursing sessions into mini wrestling matches as I struggle to keep him from pushing my breast away at the same time as sucking on it. He gets mad and refuses to keep nursing when I stop him from doing it. As a result he's only eating for 3-5 minutes per side. Could it be an issue with my "equipment"? Can any of you think of anything that could be causing him to do this? Or is he just weird? Any ideas to keep him from doing it? He's an extremely active and incredibly strong little guy. Our nursing sessions are anything but peaceful. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Some babies do that. Maggie likes to. I have found that giving her a toy to hold and pushing against it while she pushes seems to satisfy whatever pushing need she has (often she's trying to move her bowels as she eats when she does it the worst.) Or sometimes I give her a blanket or something and play tug-of-war instead. Or ditto with just my finger.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Sometimes my finger works, but lately it seems he's figured out that trick. I'm going to try a toy or blanket, though. We'll see how that goes!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Not sure how large it is, but I liked the discussion of how this fits in with all 3 of the main theories about SIDS prevention.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Fascinating!
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
If I couldn't see and feel Katababy's two bottom front teeth, I'd never know she was teething. She's been slightly more fussy lately, but that's not saying much. When she is bothered, holding her, feeding her, burping her, or changing her is what she wants, so she stops fussing when she gets one of those things. Since it's the two front teeth, I'm expecting that the back teeth will hurt more.
I have a frozen washcloth standing by.
The doctor said I could start solids at 6 months, but we just haven't gotten around to it. Katababy is 7 months now. I think she's doing okay. I have to tell her not to bite sometimes, because if she's not very hungry when she nurses, sometimes she bites instead of eating. But she's pretty good about not repeating the biting during a session.
Is it normal for her to jerk her leg sometimes? her daddy thinks maybe it's been hurting her or something. The motion does look a bit involuntary.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Everyone has involuntary leg jerks sometimes. (See: myoclonic jerk. )
They can happen while falling asleep, or if the muscle suddenly contracts (or stops contracting), which happens to just about everyone sometimes as a neuron misfires or for many other reasons. It can be a leg or other limb or the whole body.
Unless it's happening an awful lot and is accompanied by other neurological symptoms, I wouldn't worry, though if it persists in the absence of other problems you could mention it at the next checkup.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I saw the fan study. We were thinking of installing a ceiling fan in the nursery anyway. Now we're thinking harder.
Soooo....long shot here but does anyone have any advice for getting my baby to sleep longer than 2 hours at a stretch? She's 4 and a half months now, was sleeping 6+ hours at a stretch at 3 months, and actually wasn't sleeping this badly in her first month of life. I don't know what's waking her up. She does sleep with a pacifier, something I never wanted to get into for a variety of reasons and I'm wondering if she wakes up when she realizes she doesn't have it in her mouth anymore. She may also be teething, of course, but she may have been teething for at least 2 months and will probably be teething for the next 2 years. At any rate, teething rings, numbing meds, and tylenol don't seem to make a difference.
At about 6 months we taught our son to self sooth (he needed the breast rather than the pacifier to put himself to sleep) and I was wanting to wait that long with this new baby as well but getting up 5 times a night is insane and I'm very tempted to try sleep training earlier with her but would definitely be open to gentler suggestions. (I would let her cry for 3 minutes at a time before going in and patting/reassuring her.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Have you read The Happiest Baby on the Block? I never have but I hear they have suggestions for scheduling pretty much from birth on that some parents love.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've read it twice, actually. The book is about soothing techniques for newborns, mostly in line with attachment parenting principles, and it is pretty much anti-scheduling. And if you want to get right down to it, my baby already is on a schedule. She put herself on it. I'm kind of anti-scheduling myself, but this baby thrives on routine. She takes 3 relatively consistent naps a day, goes down at the same time at night, and wakes up at about the same time in the morning. But she also wakes up every 2 hours and that's the one thing I am struggling with. I don't understand why she can't sleep for at least 4 hours at a time at her age.I wouldn't even be tempted to do anything if she slept for 3-4 hours at a stretch at night.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My baby woke up when she lost her pacifier. I got to the point where I could hear her pop it out and would wake up, put it back in (she was kinda in our bed at that point) and fall back asleep. At around 6 months, she went to her own room and figured out how to soothe herself.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:But she also wakes up every 2 hours and that's the one thing I am struggling with. I don't understand why she can't sleep for at least 4 hours at a time at her age.
This is something that tends to be just the way kids are born, IMO. My second slept six hours a night almost from birth and was really attuned to day-night changes. My oldest was a screamer before sleeping from birth and slept more fitfully. This one does NOT sleep for more than 2 hours without waking at least momentarily (and she's now five months old, more actually.)
I didn't sleep unless I was held or in the car. Period. Until I was 1 1/2. And I still have extreme difficulty falling asleep much of the time, and sleep fitfully, often for no more than 3 hours at a time...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I would believe she's just that way but she slept better the first week at home than she does now. The day we brought her home from the hospital she woke every 3-4 hours. She steadily worked it back to 6-8 hours at a stretch by 3 months old. Now she's at 2 hours.
Plus, she's not giving me anything to work with here. I'd have her in bed with me where I could tend to her quickly and go right back to sleep without really waking up but she kicks, claws, grunts, and we both wake each other up. It's not like our night wakings are fun bonding experiences. She's never liked comfort nursing or even cuddling. I would have loved to keep her in bed with me longer than this, actually. Sigh...maybe my issue is more than just night waking. I haven't honestly figured out how to be this baby's mom. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*hug*
Have you asked the pediatrician for suggestions, and had the possibility of an ear infection or the like checked out?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Hmmmm...I didn't think about that. My son got a few ear infections, a little later than this but still. Definitely worth checking out!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Does she have reflux?
I ask because that seems similar to what my second did when she wasn't breathing well because of massive congestion caused by reflux. The main sign that she had it was that she would wake every time we put her to sleep grunting, arching, and kicking.
Judicious use of the bulb syringe and saline spray and putting her down on her tummy (she also had a small chin and large tongue, and when on her back it was falling back and blocking her airway, and she couldn't breathe through her nose because of the congestion) to get her to sleep. Then she slept really really well. (It took my mom to notice that, though...)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
She does arch her back a lot, too. I thought she had a little bit of silent reflux for a while but she stopped hiccuping/belching so much and I thought she outgrew it. Maybe she didn't....she did roll over 2 weeks ago and ever since won't sleep on her back. I know we have a great big thing of saline spray around here somewhere...I'll try that after her nap and tonight to see what happens. Thanks for the idea!
Posted by Whitney (Member # 6174) on :
Have you heard of The Wonder Weeks by Hetty Vanderijt and Frans Plooij? They say that there are 8 developmental leaps that occur in a specific order in the first year of a child's life - usually occurring at specific weeks. One of the weeks is at 4 months and 1 week.
The 'wonder week' is usually accompanied by unusual fussiness and/or problems sleeping, because the baby is spending so much time trying to figure out the developmental leap. Once the leap has been made, the fussy/sleep issues resolve on their own.
I didn't discover the book until my oldest was past a year, so I haven't had a chance to track it with my own eyes, but I intend to pay attention with my 2nd.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow, long-time lurker, first-time poster! Hiya, Whitney. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
My first three thoughts were:
1) Does she have reflux? 2) Is she sleeping in the same room as you? 3) Is she on a schedule of any kind?
Since 1 and 3 have been addressed, I'll ask #2. Lego slept horribly at the same age you're describing, so I slept on the floor in his room. He was too wiggly to cosleep comfortably by that age, but I also didn't want to walk too much back and forth all night. But one night I decided to try sleeping just outside his door instead. He slept much better after I left the room. I wonder if my presence was rousing him or if I snore or something. It sounds like you're not cosleeping anymore, but it made me wonder where her bed was.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
On an unrelated note, I got a prescription to help with Duplo's reflux. I gave him his first dose before nursing him this morning, and while he's still spitting up, he was considerably less fussy. We'll see if it works even at his predictable fussy time in the evening. *crosses fingers*
Posted by Whitney (Member # 6174) on :
Hey, rivka. Thanks!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good luck, Brinestone!
Whitney, now that you've posted a couple times, is this just the beginning, or are you more likely to fade back into lurkerdom? Posted by Whitney (Member # 6174) on :
I'll probably fade back into lurkerdom.
The only reason I signed up before is because I was close to posting in 2004, but decided against it.
I'll probably show up again when I have a response to a question that I don't see anyone else mentioning.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Welcome (sort of) Whitney! Welcome to posting, anyhow.
Hugs to you, Christine. I don't have any constructive suggestions...or at least nothing you haven't already tried. I have noticed that Nathaniel has bad weeks every few months. He was sleeping through the night pretty consistently at just around 3 months, but started waking again at the end of his 4th month and now a full night is pretty rare. It seems like the developmental milestones have been pretty constant since then...and when he's not trying to learn to roll over/ sit up/ creep etc., he's teething.
Nathaniel does sleep better when we cosleep--I'm sorry that's not working with your baby girl. Isn't grunting a symptom of reflux?
I know you know this, but you *are* right now figuring out how to be the momma that this baby needs. *hug*
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I don't really have any constructive suggestions for you Christine, but I know how tough sleeping problems are. I think we are just now coming to the end of the horrible problems we've had for almost 2 months now (I honestly don't think I had more than about an hour and a half of uninterrupted sleep during that time and became a total zombie). I hope you will be able to find a good solution!
It really is a good thing babies are so dang cute!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Whitney: I'll probably fade back into lurkerdom.
Fair enough. But now we know you're listening . . .
ludosti, it's simple evolution. The babies that weren't cute got left on mountaintops. It's similar to my theory of why colic doesn't kick in until the baby is a few weeks old. The ones who shrieked like that from birth got left on mountaintops too (really far ones!), but by the time you get to 3-4 weeks old, you've bonded (and the neighbors have noticed the kid ), so it's too late.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My dad extends that to smiling. He says for most babies social smiling comes on right as the parents are sleep deprived enough to abandon the baby to get some sleep. At that point, they smile, and the parents go nuts for them all over again.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Quick update... Grace is HOME!!! : ) Olivia failed her apnea test - so they'll re-hook her up to the super sensitive monitor next Sunday and if she's good for 24 hrs, they'll send her home!!! WOOHOOO!!!!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Hi, folks! Congratulations new mommies and daddies!
I know I've been gone awhile, and although I am not sure that this posting is appropriate to the current thread topic, I thought that it would be fitting to post here upon my return.
We brought home our bundle of joy 10 weeks ago. Calista was 7 lbs on the dot, 20 inches long, and 10 days late. She's up to 11 lbs 8 oz and has been eating voraciously! Things are just now getting back to some semblance of working order again around here.
Edit to Add: Good to be back.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hiya, Pretty Flower! Welcome back, and congrats. Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Thank you very much, Rivka! Both for the congratulations and also for remembering me after so long. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Day 5 on the generic Tagamet. Not only is Duplo crying much less, I swear he's spitting up less too. Maybe it's just that I've been off dairy longer. Anyway, now that the screaming, refusing to nurse, and tension is gone from my baby, it's kind of fun to find out who he really is underneath all that. Turns out he likes to growl/roar, he can "scoot" and turn on his back by pushing off with his legs (and he gets around pretty well that way), and he really enjoys the rough way that Lego plays with him. Also, he's crazy about green beans.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Question for experienced moms out there... what has been your experience regarding introducing solids? Katababy is over 7 months, and we haven't started solids yet. We were going to introduce rice cereal at 6 months, but never got around to it.
Now I'm reading that it may be a good thing to delay solids, so I'm happy.
Did any of you delay solids? How long? What did you start your baby on?
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Another question... when are babies ready for solids you have to chew? I was going to start her out with mushy foods, but what about cheerios and other things you have to bite and chew? How many teeth does she have to have? How does she know she has to chew it and how do I prevent her trying to swallow foods whole?
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I don't qualify as an experienced mom, but we delayed solids for Beanie and just introduced them about 2 weeks ago (at 9 months). She still doesn't have any teeth yet, so I started with rice cereal. She took to it immediately. I still haven't really figured out how much to give her, but that's ok. We tried a little bit of carrots a few days ago, and she didn't really thrill to them (but I think it was the texture), so I'm adding them to the rice for a few days and we'll try something else new in a little while. My pediatrician recommended starting with rice cereal, carrots, squash, peas, before moving to fruits like bananas and peaches.
Beanie seems to have developing in leaps and bounds. She started crawling about a month ago, and has been cruising around against the couch the last week or so. Yesterday, she started pulling herself up to standing on her own, so it seems like she'll be walking her soon. We also have had great luck with sleeping this week, so I am thrilled. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You'll find that even mushy foods, they try to "chew" as they learn how to eat them. When they have a "pincer grip" (can pick things up with thumb and forefinger) they are generally ready for Cheerios and the like (if they have been introduced to those ingredients.) Gerber makes "puffs" that dissolve when sucked on (of course some of them have strawberry, which they're not supposed to have until one year, so you have to be careful. I've always found it really stupid that Gerber makes so many things with dairy and strawberry and other things that many kids aren't fed for a year!) Before I introduce finger foods I usually put steamed veggies or soft fruits in a mesh food feeder bag and let them learn to get it in their mouths, they like that.
I like to start with bananas, then introduce ceral mixed with bananas (none of my kids would ever eat plain cereal.) If rice is tolerated I move on to oats because none of them like rice cereal much. (This time around I just went ahead and bought the oatmeal with bananas cereal, Maggie seems to like it.) Then carrots, sweet potatoes, apples, then meats and green veggies. (I don't use bottled green veggies, I steam and grind fresh or they don't like them.)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
We did mashed bananas first with John at six months. By then he was already staring at whatever we were eating and had been playing with spoons for weeks, so we were pretty sure he was ready. And was he ever -- I started with four slices of banana mashed with a little breast milk and he gobbled it up and asked for more. I think I stopped him at half a banana that first day and by the end of the week he was eating a whole one for lunch every day. We followed up with baked pears (bake 'em whole, skin & core 'em and mush with a fork) then either avacodo or brown rice cereal, I don't remember which. We never used any "official" baby foods -- the rice cereal was ground brown rice from the natural foods section at the grocery store and everything else was fresh fruits or veggies that I cooked and/or mashed myself.
Once he had the pincher grip down I did a lot of roasted root veggies cut into short french-fry shaped pieces. He loved those.
Edit: he also accidentally got ahold of some wasabi at around 8-9 months and loved it. So when he stopped eating his mashed squash I put taco sauce in it and it was a hit. At 2 he's still an adventurous eater -- he likes mac&cheese and other "kid food" but he'll mostly eat whatever we're eating and I don't think he's ever refused to at least try a bite of something new, except when he's crazy-tired or otherwise upset.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Every baby is ready at a different age. I've heard of moms purposefully delaying solids for like 12 months but there is no evidence of benefit to doing this. (I haven't found any evidence that it hurts, either, so don't feel rushed.) There is evidence that waiting 6 months helps with allergies, so that much is good. After that, IMO, it's just another "all babies are different" thing. Some are ready at 6 months (heck, some are showing very clear signs before that), and some aren't ready until 9 or 10 months.
You kind of know when they're ready...they are keenly interested in food, trying to grab it, sitting up well, able to transfer food from the front to the back of the mouth (they are born with a tongue thrust reflex which pushes food out and this should go away typically between 4 and 6 months). There are other indicators people talk about that I'm not as convinced by...such as a specific age or weight.
With my son, he grabbed a handful of rice off my husband's dinner plate at 4 months old, put it in his mouth, and pronounce, "Mmmmm." I decided he was ready.
My daughter is almost 5 months and while she watches everything we do, including eat, I don't think she's really ready yet and I don't think she's especially interested in food any more than anything else we do, So we're waiting.
When we start her, I've recently decided to skip the purees. I think it was a waste of time and money. All food offered before about 12 months is really just for practice anyway, so it's not like you need them to be eating certain foods or in any certain order (although you'll get lots of opinions on this). Breast milk and formula have all the nutrition they really need. So I'm just going to offer her age-appropriate textured and finger foods when she seems ready for them. This is similar to a new approach to feeding solids called baby-led weaning. That approach emphasizes self-feeding more than I think I will. I'll probably end up giving her soft foods like mashed potatoes off my finger at about 6 months.
They can probably handle something like cheerios when they master the pincer grasp. Basically, if they can feed it to themselves, it's probably ok. Of course, you should never leave a baby unattended while eating.
Oh, and if you ask 100 people, you'll get 100 answers. Going into it the second time around, my philosophy is to relax and go with the flow. It's not that big a deal and definitely not an exact science!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The first time John had a chunk of food that I didn't smoosh with a fork was at a Mother's Day buffet, so he'd have been not quite 8 months old. He'd finished the bowls of food I'd brought for him, so I picked him up and went to get a piece of banana from the dessert table (there was a chocolate fountain with bananas and strawberries on wooden skewers). On the way back to the table he leaned over, grabbed the banana off my plate, yanked out the skewer and stuffed the 2" piece of banana in his mouth.
Edit: and of course Grandma got a picture. He was pretty pleased with himself.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, Maggie grabbed sticky rice at the Korean BBQ place we went to last month. I just watched to make sure she didn't choke, she gummed it up just fine! (Sticky rice of course is cooked softer than other rice, almost like rice porridge.)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
But how can anyone gum cheerios? Those things are pretty firm.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Not after you gum 'em for a minute. They soak up saliva like tiny sponges, and then they're mushy! And sticky! And, according to most babies I've known, yummy!
Brinestone, I'm glad Duplo's doing so much better! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
They do. And they have a hole in the middle-- so they dissolve even faster. More surface area.
My mom says for some of their craniofacial patients with oral problems they recommend Fruit Loops instead because they dissolve even faster. Not recommended for non-special-needs babies, though, unless you want them to develop a serious sweet tooth!!!
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Well that's neat. Good to know.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Update: For some wonderful but completely unkown reason, Celeste slept for 6 hours and then for 4 hours!!!!! After that, she wanted to be up at 6 in the morning but hey, I'll take what I can get. I didn't even do anything.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Hooray!
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I'm glad to hear that all the babies are doing well!
A word on the Gerber puffs - they have wheat flour which can disagree with some babies. Aerin loved them, but they made her reflux much worse. The apple wheels were fine and she really loved those. We also gave her Fruity Cheerios as a special treat and she loved those. They're a bit less junky than the really sugar-y cereals.
BTW, Aerin didn't get her first tooth until she was over a year old and we gave her Cheerios well before that, on the advice of her doctor.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes, the apple wheels are my favorite.
Don't Cheerios have wheat in them too? Smaller amounts but there. I think that's one of the foods I've used to introduce small amounts of wheat.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Why are we so afraid of wheat, out of curiosity?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Gluten allergies. --
Nathaniel started on the rice cereal this weekend (he is just shy of 6 months). Very soupy and in formula.... And he HATED it. He'd never had a temper tantrum before this (he was always "upset" before, but this was clearly "mad").
Mommy called me today saying making it a bit thicker, and in water, produced a happy baby that ate 3/4s of a bowl (about 3oz of liquid plus the cereal).
Every baby is different.
-Bok
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I understand, but is giving wheat at a certain age supposed to cause them or are we afraid that the reaction is going to be severe or are we just talking generally about babies we've already determined have gluten allergies?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Some studies seem to show that early exposure increases the risk of allergies. Others not. So it's a matter of how cautious you want to be, family history of allergies, etc.
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Speaking of food allergies, we've been battling one of our own over here.
When baby c was er..um...a bit more fresh out of the oven we had this mysterious rash that popped up on her face/neck that made these nasty little sores. We were told to treat them with a small amount of the liquid children's benedryl and to use aquaphor on the sores to get them to heal. They eventually went away. We were never really sure what had caused them, since they didn't seem to be baby acne and didn't act like eczema.
Fast forward to this weekend, when she was at her Grandparents for a couple of hours. We had given them some frozen, pumped breastmilk for when they want to watch her. She got hungry so they fed her. Last night we got her home and we are back to sores on her face.
Ugh.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Both of the twins are home!!! I'll be back in here in a few weeks... ; )
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Yay for the twins! Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Baby Photos!
(These are the same as the ones posted at sake)
For those who don't read the pregnancy thread, Tobias James Eaton, born Monday afternoon. Very happy first time Mum & Dad. Just born - in theatre.
Look at all that hair!! What a cutie! You look great too - good job!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
My little girl is 6 months old and still barely has any hair!
COngrats on the newcomer. Don't do what I did the week after my son was born and host Thanksgiving. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
So cute!!!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Oh, and as she's in Australia, hosting Thanksgiving is not likely. )
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
That's good, then. It really was a lousy idea. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'll say! I would probably have taken everyone out to a restaurant.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Eliza learned how to clap today and it is the most adorable thing ever! I never thought about teaching her to clap and then today I was clapping when she did something and she looked at my hands and then clapped hers. We have since spent most of the day clapping hands and saying Yea! Of course, now, if I don't say yea for her when she claps her hands, she gets angry. But it is oh so adorable.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Haley has recently become obsessed with: 1) Playing in the snow. She will bring my shoes to me, dragging them by the laces, then point to the window and say, "Walk? Owside walk? Brrr! Snah!" The "brrr snah" bit refers to the snow.
2) Brushing her teeth. She'll brush them four or five times a day, and if we're not around she'll climb onto the lid of the toilet to reach the sink (and her toothbrush). She can't reach her toothpaste, though, so she'll come to us -- often bringing our toothbrushes, too, distributing them to the rest of the family like the opposite of the Tooth Fairy -- and wail "Teef! Teef! Uppie!" until we pick her up and help her retrieve the tube of paste from the shelf.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Here's an unsolicited tip to help everyone through the cold weather. Aerin's face tends to get very chapped in the winter. I tried everything (not hyperbole - you wouldn't believe what I spent on lotions and cremes). What finally worked is so simple that I felt like a jerk for not trying it first. First, a layer of A+D Original Ointment (NOT the cream). Then a layer of Vaseline. That's it. I put it on Aerin every night and her skin's been perfect ever since. Her nose didn't even get chapped when she got a cold.
We also use Vaseline to prevent diaper rash. It's the only thing that works. Aerin did have eczema on her arms and legs that was resistant to everything (even the prescription our pediatrician gave us and A+D and Vaseline), but she seems to have outgrown it.
Has anyone tried the new Medela Freestyle pump? I've heard it's almost as good as a hospital grade pump, but not from anyone I know personally.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I've heard it's good but considering my history I'm not gonna try it.
We use Eucerin plus Vaseline on Bridey, she gets chapped hands in the cold, too.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Nathaniel came home one year ago today. It's hard to believe that this active, crawling, happy one-year-old was that teeny 5 pounder just a year ago. (We weighed him on Christmas last year using a postal scale and a shoebox.)
He's such a funny little boy. He's constantly pulling up on things and getting stuck, and his favorite thing to do is climb the stairs (with one of us right behind him).
He's going through another period of being clingy, and I have to admit I like all of the extra cuddles. I like being A-star-number-one-favorite Mama.
I know Beanie's birthday is coming up soon, too--happy birthday!
*** Nope, I haven't tried the Freestyle, but I'm listening carefully for any answers you get. I am NOT a fan of my PIS--it works fine but it's not gentle enough. (I miss the Symphony!) If we have another baby (funny how the NICU trauma memory has faded!), I'm thinking about either getting a Freestyle if I hear better things, or else renting a hospital-grade for when I go back to work. I'd keep the old PIS at home and leave the hospital-grade at work. (If we *do* have another one, I'd really like to have another long maternity leave. I didn't go back till Nathaniel was 8 months, which meant only 4 months of intensive pumping. Renting for that amount of time is approximately comparable to buying a pump.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
We're getting a humidifier installed today. The whole family is in desperate need of moisture in our skin. My 3-year-old keeps saying his nose hurts because it's all dry and cracked in there. The pediatrician recommended saline spray in his nose but Drake didn't think that was such a good idea. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Christine, should there be some kind of delay in the installation, you can also try doing several loads of laundry and hanging things up around the house to airdry. This works wonders for us. (or at least, it did, before we moved to the Pacific Northwest & the glories of rain forest climate made the point moot)
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I am looking for some advice on sippy cups. Ellie is almost 9 months old and does pretty well with her sippy cup. She likes to drink water out of it and occasionally some watered down juice which she absolutely loves. The problem comes in putting formula in her cup. She just won't drink it. She gets really angry. I know she knows how to use it because she does fine with water in her cup. Her pediatrician wants us to wean her to the cup by 1 so I really would like to get her to drink more formula from it. Any suggsestions?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Question: When you feed her from a bottle, do you hold her?
My guess is that she's got an emotional connection to that method of feeding, especially if you hold her, but probably even if you don't. It's a comfort to her. When you remove something like that, something that a person (or child or baby) counts on, it's best to replace it with something else.
And I do think it's great to continue to hold a baby when you feed them because that bond is so important -- more important, IMHO, than having her off the bottle by her first birthday on the nose.
If you even waited until she was one, and then started offering regular milk in a sippy, and then gradually cut one bottle feeding each day, it might be a nice, gentle way to wean. You would want to replace that cuddle time with other cuddle time and perhaps introduce a lovey -- a blanket or doll or something that can be a comfort to replace the bottle.
Just a few thoughts. That's pretty much how I weaned from the breast, although I wasn't in any hurry and in fact went to about 17 months. (I'm thinking of going even longer this time around.) But the principle is still the same. When I was ready to wean, I offered him regular milk in a cup and cut back one nursing session per day every 3-4 weeks until we were done. Every 2 weeks would probably be a very good, gentle approach.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I do always hold her when I feed her a bottle. Good point. I never really thought that it was the cuddle that could be the problem. I will try giving her a snuggle with the cup and see if that helps some. She has lots of loveys but none that she has grown attatched to. Does that usually happen by now or is it something she might develop later? Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely give it a try.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I wouldn't worry about it much -- 3 months is a long time in terms of infant development. Think of what she can do now compared to when she was 6 months old!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I think some kids just don't get attached to one specific object. I tried to help Lego "bond" with a blanket, and then later with a bear. No dice. He sleeps with a different stuffed animal every night now. His cousin, on the other hand, used to freak out of anyone but her or her parents so much as touched her blanket.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Duplo used to be a pretty good sleeper, but now he's up every three hours or less every night. He's over six months old. Everyone says the first six weeks are the worst for sleep, but that wasn't true for him. He'd do a four-hour stretch, followed by two three-hour stretches, so two wakings total each night. And he'd eat and go right back to sleep. What he's doing now is worse. He goes to bed at a different time each night, sometimes wakes in the night thinking it's morning and won't go back to sleep for an hour or more, and thinks he needs to nurse far too often.
I suspect he's growing aware of his desire for my company, even at night. He seems to sleep better when he's in bed with me, but I try not to do that too often because eventually I want him in his own room.
And I really don't know how to get him to have a consistent bedtime. His naps are consistent, which is the funny thing. But sometimes he takes a third nap in the early evening, and sometimes he doesn't. Maybe we're just in a transitional period, but I'm sick of it. I want my sleep back.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Eliza did the same thing at just over 6 months. It was right before she really mastered sitting and standing by herself. My pediatrician said that at that age babies sometimes will not want to sleep when they are trying to work out a new skill and excited about it. The good news is a bit before 8 months she started to be a great sleeper again and had learned a bunch of new skills. Hang in there!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: Everyone says . . .
I've learned not to pay attention to Everyone. That guy has no idea what he's talking about. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Nathaniel had pretty predictable sleep patterns until he started teething and I went back to work--which happened at the same time when he was about 8.5 months old (about 7 months adjusted). We had about 3 weeks of terrible sleep where he nursed pretty much all night, and woke up about 4-8 times between when I put him down at night and when I went to bed. And then another 4-8 times between 11 and when it was time to get up.
Those weeks were NOT fun.
What saved me (since I was back at work and needed to be somewhat functional) was starting to co-sleep. Up until then he'd been in his own crib in our room.
Especially in the last month or so, he's started to sleep much longer at a time (he usually goes from about 8:30 or 9 to 5 or so), and we're thinking about trying to get him back into his own bed. We'll see--in the end what is most important to me is my sleep...and if he sleeps I sleep, and since at 5 I just nurse him back to sleep without waking up myself...well, this is what works for us for now.
About a consistent bedtime...Nathaniel sometimes gets in another early evening nap, but it doesn't usually affect when he falls asleep. We start the bedtime routine between 7:45 and 8:15 (bath, brush teeth, jammies, books, nurse with lullabies playing), which means he's asleep between 8:30 and 9:00 most nights. So anyway, with our baby, the consistent bedtime comes from us starting the routine on time, not on his naps. (Just like everything else, I'm sure it doesn't work on all of them!)
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
theresa51282 - we went cold turkey with our bottles when Aerin was about a year because she was a micropreemie and has a malformed palate. I thought she'd flip out and refuse to drink, but she got over it in about 2 days. She also has never had a comfort object. I didn't either - lots of kids don't.
Thankfully, sleeping has never been a problem for us. Aerin slept through the night at 2 months adjusted. I'm sure a significant part of it is that she is a naturally good sleeper. She does like to sleep and gets very annoyed if you wake her up (wonder where she gets that). She was also a very late teether and had an easy time of it. She's also so active that she wears herself out.
Still, there were some things I did that I think helped. First, we had a very consistent naptime and bedtime schedule. She never had more than 2 naps per day and we started her bedtime routine at 7:00 p.m. exactly. I rocked her until she was very drowsy and then put her down. I always kept her room very dark - no nightlights of any kind. I also had an iHome and put 16 hours of soft music on. I experimented a lot. I was desperate because she was such a high-maintenance baby that I just HAD to get some sleep. You never know what will work, so keep trying.
I really hope the twins are good sleepers.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Liz, the NICU experience really does fade for almost everyone - most of the NICU parents I've spoken to feel that way. It's like a blur for Andrew and me. The first homecoming anniversary is such a milestone. We've actually made our homecoming day into a family holiday of sorts. We just go out to supper, but that's a big deal for us. Be prepared for people to give you some stunned or obnoxious looks and comments when you tell them that you're trying again (or that you've succeeded).
Happy Homecoming! It's not only a milestone, but it's an accomplishment for you and Baby Nathaniel. I am so, so happy for you.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Be prepared for people to give you some stunned or obnoxious looks and comments when you tell them that you're trying again (or that you've succeeded).
You know, I've never understood this. I totally get that all the time (well, did when I was pregnant) and still get comments on having 3 kids. (Just 3! I've never thought 3 was a "large family" but apparently it is to many people.)
To me, the only response when someone (who is in a stable adult relationship) says they are pregnant is "congratulations" unless they tell you that they are upset about it. Sure, circumstances might not be ideal for whatever reason-- but that doesn't mean the baby won't be loved and cared for (at least in the cases of people I know) and "Are you NUTS?" is not the right way to respond to someone being happy about having another baby.
Sorry, I've had a lot of comments lately and I'm getting a little sick of it. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Yep, there's something about 3 kids. Everyone I know with 3 or more has gotten those same comments. Apparently, a ton of women get tubals after #3, so maybe that's it. I never thought of 3 as a "big" family, either. I get the "Are you going to keep going until you get a boy?" questions and comments. That's a pretty personal question and vaguely insulting in a way.
And when you tell people you're having twins, they all say the same thing, "You're going to have your hands full." Thanks, that's super helpful. I also get a lot of, "At least you're not having 6 like Jon & Kate Plus 8." Also extremely helpful and comforting. Every twin mom I know has warned me to steel myself for the "double trouble" comments. I have to keep reminding myself that everyone means well.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Thanks, Mrs. M. We didn't do anything special, but it was still a special day.
You know, I actually get the opposite kind of comment: "Ready to start thinking about #2?" Clearly "THEY" (cf "Everyone") think(s) the perfect family is 2 kids, one of each flavor.
And you're right, Mrs. M. They all mean well, just like the ladies who like to tell horror stories about pregnancy and labor, and all the people who ask if the baby is sleeping through the night yet. It's just part of the acceptable cultural conversation.
Obviously, though, some parts are less acceptable ("funny" comments about having a large family, for example).
I can't imagine having a large family *for myself*. It's not what I grew up with, none of my close friends had more than 2 siblings, and I've never hoped for a lot of kids. But...the difference is that I *can* imagine that someone else might want something (gasp) different from me.
Funny how that works...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Exactly! Though I can't imagine myself being "done" at 2 or 3-- I've ALWAYS wanted a lot of kids-- I can totally see that some families are complete and happy with 1, 2, or 3 kids. But, not everyone is the same! I have even gotten snide comments about "overpopulating the earth" and "we believe in replacement, not going until we can't support them all." Wow! How is that okay? (Not to mention, we are very environmentally conscious, and probably consume less than most families with 1 or 2 kids in our communities do.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Clearly "THEY" (cf "Everyone") think(s) the perfect family is 2 kids, one of each flavor.
Well, I don't know about "they" or "everyone" but personally I'm thrilled with my 2 kids, one boy and one girl. And I think it's perfect.
Then again, I have one sibling, a brother, and so that's what I'm used to. Also, I'm easily overstimulated so probably more than 2 kids would be hard for me.
I don't pretend to assume that what is perfect for me is perfect for "everyone" though.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: "we believe in replacement, not going until we can't support them all."
I know a few people who automatically question whether anyone with more than 2-3 kids can support them. Pretty judgmental.
It's not as common, but there is a flipside. I have gotten people questioning my decision to "only have 2 kids." It's like, "You're not the one who has to raise them." One person even went so far as to tell me that I shouldn't use birth control because God wouldn't give me any more kids than I could handle. I informed her that I knew he wouldn't, which was why he'd given me birth control.
People need to mind their own business.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes. They really, really do.
I do get the opportunity to make some really mean and evil cracks, though. Like your "that's why He gave me birth control," I am prone to saying things that leave people with sour or stunned looks on their faces. Some of my favorites, in response to "Don't you know what causes that?":
"Yes, and we really enjoy it. I especially like it when my husband..." *trail off as they look shocked*
"Yeah, but we don't have enough bathrooms to use separate toilets."
"Didn't anyone ever explain that to you? Okay, so when a man and a woman love each other very much, and they want to have a baby..."
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Toby is 7 weeks old today. How time flies! I miss my little newborn sleepy boy (and I know, he's not really *that* old yet), but it is so cool seeing him become more and more engaged with us and the world.
Maggie has just started this past week standing alone (without holding onto anything.) We managed to get a few of her doing it at our portrait session Saturday.
I think all our babies are adorable, of course. In fact, I think most babies are adorable, not just ours. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Imogen, I love that first picture of Toby!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Super cute pictures!!! I love Toby's face as he's sitting up in bed!
I can't believe Maggies is standing already! It seems like just yesterday that she arrived!
I'm amazed that my tiny little girl is already a year old! She celebrated her birthday by taking her first few unassisted steps for me. A week later her first tooth finally appeared and today her second one is peeking through. She's having lots of fun cruising around and has done a lot more unassisted steps (as well as hanging onto our fingers and walking around the house with us) - she even walked about 3-4 feet last week. She's waving unprompted now and loves when we cheer "Yay!" for her - she'll stop what she's doing and clap. She's still not much for talking, but she'll answer questions by shaking her head. She's fallen down to the bottom of the height/weight charts, but her doctor assured me that she's perfectly healthy and not to worry (but a little tiny part of me does worry).
Here she is with her birthday cake. I was able to snap a picture of her sleeping last week, which I haven't been able to do in a really long time.
[fixed the sleeping pictures]
[ January 13, 2009, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The birthday picture is cute. The sleeping picture is not working. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Oops! got it fixed! And it's really cute, she's clutching her wubanub in her hand - you can see it sticking out here and there. Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Very cute! 1 is so big...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Awwww.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
When did these babies get so big?! Jessica is 1? What a pretty girl - those curls are so sweet. Toby is gigantic and very handsome. I'm tearing up a little.
And I swear I saw a doll that looks exactly like Maggie. I'm trying to find the picture. It's uncanny.
We had our first joint feeding session today! It went really well. We used the My Brest Friend and it worked perfectly. It took us a while to get both babies to stay latched, but then they settled down and ate. It was so fantastic to feed both of them at once - they're usually hungry at the same time and I have to take one off before she's done and it's so upsetting for everyone. I hope we can do this from now on.
This was a big day of firsts - I got both of them into the Baby K'tan. They're sleeping in in right now, as I type! It is also the most comfortable sling I've ever worn, by far. I cannot recommend it enough. Camille hung out in it alone and she loves it. Leni only likes being in it with her sister for some reason.
My quality of life just improved by leaps and bounds!
[ August 11, 2014, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Hatrack River ]
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Yay! Glad to hear Mrs M. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Isn't babywearing GREAT?
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Ugh, I could never do it. Probably I never had the right sling. I was always afraid either the baby's head was at the wrong angle, or they were going to suffocate. I do wish I had shopped around more and found a solution for me.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It really helps to have one you like. I heart my ring slings so much. They're the only ones I feel secure with, pouch slings make me so nervous. And the one I like best is Solarveil, it's mesh so I never worry about breathing and such through it. I do have a mei tai I like for older babies (a friend made for me.) I abhored my Snugli. I have some backpacking carrier from Kelty and one from some hiking store that I like pretty well for hikes (but wouldn't use for anything less.)
It has come to my attention that what I thought was laziness/cheapness/make-my-life-easiness is actually "crunchiness." At least according to some people.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
<3 my ring slings, too. All these babies are so beautiful.
The Moose is now walking. Okay, so he just started last week so he's more "stand up, wobble a lot, manage to shift one foot at a time forward 3 or 5 times and fall down" -ing, but he's getting there. Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
My baby didn't want to be worn. She was one of those babies crawling by 6 months (though she could scootch herself across the room by 3 months- kinda like an inchworm), walking by 9. She almost never wanted to cuddle. And breastfeeding was like a chore for her- she would do it because she was hungry, but she wasn't going to spend any extra time about it and would wait until she was starving to eat. Though, to be honest, her daddy probably could have worn her.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I had my maya wrap, and I thought the material was way too heavy and warm. I found it very difficult to place the material just right, too. When Katababy gets older, I expect I'll use it for side and back carries a lot.
But what I was surprised about was how much I liked my infantino front2back carrier. It's a structured soft carrier and is very comfortable. And it's not difficult to put on or to put her in it, like the maya wrap is.
I'm thinking of getting a mei tei style one for back carries, like a catbird or hawk something or other.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I'm so glad you have a sling you like for the twins MrsM! I love my slings too. I'm cheap and have made my own. Beanie loves them (in fact, I think the lighter-weight one has become her lovey - she's been dragging it all around the house with her for the last week or so).
Since a lot of you moms have carriers, I have a question for you. Beanie certainly isn't very big (she was only 18.5 lbs at her 12 month checkup), but using a sling for her for an extended period of time (like say an hour or two for long walks around the neighborhood) is starting to hurt my back, so I've been thinking of making a mei tai style carrier (she's heavy enough that the wrap I have doesn't work well either - she seems to slip down too low regardless of how tight I make it). I've been hoping I can find someone in my area who has one I can just try for a few minutes to see how she and I like it, but in case I can't, does a mei tai seem like a good way to go? I really can't afford to buy one (but I have tons of fabric), which is why I'm planning to make one, but I'd be disappointed to get it all done, and still have the same problem.
kq - I've learned I'm way "crunchy"-er than I'd ever thought too. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I like the look of this one. It makes me want to go hiking with the baby.
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: My baby didn't want to be worn. She was one of those babies crawling by 6 months (though she could scootch herself across the room by 3 months- kinda like an inchworm), walking by 9. She almost never wanted to cuddle. And breastfeeding was like a chore for her- she would do it because she was hungry, but she wasn't going to spend any extra time about it and would wait until she was starving to eat. Though, to be honest, her daddy probably could have worn her.
This sounds like my girl!
Actually, my first baby would have loved to have been warn if I'd had the right sling. I ended up holding him constantly. I guess when you just have one that works about as well anyway. He was an early crawler/walker, so I'm not sure those are related, but he sure did like to linger at the breast and cuddle!
Then I got a ring sling when I was pregnant with my daughter and she hated it. I could maybe use it for 5 minutes but mostly she didn't want to be held. She didn't want to nurse for very long or cuddle. It was depressing, actually. The good news is that as she's getting older, she's nursing longer, at least when she's tired. I think I had an oversupply at first and it's settled down so that she doesn't choke on it now. Still not a cuddle bug. (That's what I call my son...don't know why.)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I love my MayaWrap. I nursed Charles all over Disney World in it when he was five weeks old and I can still use it to carry John on my hip and he's almost 2 1/2.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Duplo is crawling! I still can't believe it. He looks impossibly small doing it.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Mrs. M, I don't think I've said this yet--but CONGRATULATIONS! They're gorgeous and your whole family looks so happy. I'm sure you'll be giving us updates on how Aerin is settling into her new role as big sister. And I love the My Brest Friend, too--in fact, I still use it sometimes w/ my 13 month old.
My sling experience:
*Infantino sling carrier was terrible. I used it once and clearly it was a bad idea--looked like it was blocking his airway.
*Snugli used once, when Nathaniel was 7 lbs.--the lowest recommended weight. Still hurt my back to carry him in that torture device.
*Baby Bjorn (borrowed from a friend) was a bit better. I could wear him for about 15 min. before my back hurt, anyway. He seemed to like it, though.
*Finally, when he was about 4 months old, I followed Space Opera's recommendation and got an adjustable cotton pouch from Kangaroo Korner. It's been great! I never really wore him around the house, much--since he's the only baby around, I could pretty much sit and hold him as much as he wanted/ needed. But it's been perfect for shopping anywhere the stroller won't really work--used bookstores, flea markets, anyplace small. I haven't used it in about a month, but he still loved it then, when he was a bit over a year. I wore him tummy-to-tummy and he fell right asleep.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yay Duplo!
Charles has pushed himself up into the crawling position a few times, but I think it'll be awhile before he goes anywhere with it.
And he won't look small when he does -- he passed twenty pounds just before he turned six months. I hate to think what he must be up to by now.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Whoa. Nathaniel just hit 20 lbs. this past week.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
And Duplo's almost 8 months old and around 18 lbs.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yeah, Charles is a moose. I'm glad we got the higher weight limit infant carrier/carseat, because when it's below zero it's nice to be able to get him all snug in it and carry him out to the car, but I will be very, very glad when it warms up and we switch him to an installed seat. He's really too heavy to lug around in the bucket seat.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie was 22 lbs. at her 6 month checkup.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Wow! I'm trying really hard not to feel like it's bad that Beanie is so little. I know when I was a baby I was tall and skinny, and I know her doctor is not at all concerned about her, but sometimes mommy guilt/worry overcomes reason.
And I can't believe my little baby is now a toddler! She's really getting into walking and walks about as much as she crawls now. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Good thing there's such a wide range of normal. I wish my doctor were a bit more relaxed about Nathaniel's weight. He's a great doctor, though--which I *really* know now, since Nathaniel is just getting over pneumonia & RSV. So if he keeps wanting weight checks, well, I'll just put up with it.
Nathaniel is not walking yet, but maybe soon. He's certainly crawling and cruising like a champ.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I love that Bin is little. She is 2 and still wearing 12-18 month clothes. Since the under 2 clothes seems to be what everyone gives you, it is nice to have those last a good long time.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I thought Celeste was big -- she was 16.5 lbs at 6 months. Of course, compared to my son, she's enormous. He's 3 and still only 28 lbs. I guess I just have small babies...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
To be fair, Bridey was 17 lbs at a year.
And Emma hit 33 at about 2 years old and has yo-yoed between 33 and 37 (depending on how recently she ate, mostly) for the last 3 years, while she grew about a foot...
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
Our kids are all small. Mooselet is 7 1/2 and under 50 lbs. Superstation turned 5 in November and is 39 lbs (still in a car seat, not booster!). Squoose will be 3 next month and is ~28 lbs (he stepped off the scale before we finished weighing him last week).
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Thanks for the reassurance! Whenever I start to think too much about it, I remind myself that everyone is different and that I should enjoy the fun of her not growing out of her clothes every 2 months.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Which is no guarantee for the future. My kids were all low on the weight charts as babies/toddlers. Tall, though, even then -- but nothing like now, when my son needs new pants for the third time this year.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
*nods* My kids tend to go through periods of not growing much, and periods of eating everything in sight, going through 2 gallons of milk a week, and outgrowing 2 sizes of clothing in a month or two.
quote:Superstation turned 5 in November and is 39 lbs (still in a car seat, not booster!)
That makes me so happy. Of course, there are seats that have taller top slots and will harness him to 65, which would make me even happier. He could make it to 6 or 7 when his iliac crest is fused and a booster would fit him better. Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: He could make it to 6 or 7 when his iliac crest is fused
I'm confused about what you mean by this. The iliac crest typically beings ossifying at around age 12-13 for girls and 14-15 for boys and fuses to the ilium at some point between 15 and 23 years of age. Do you mean some other part of the pelvis?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
As a 23 year old, I don't want to ride in a carseat (there was a state senator trying to pass a law here that would require anyone under 90 pounds to do so, it failed).
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan:
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: He could make it to 6 or 7 when his iliac crest is fused
I'm confused about what you mean by this. The iliac crest typically beings ossifying at around age 12-13 for girls and 14-15 for boys and fuses to the ilium at some point between 15 and 23 years of age. Do you mean some other part of the pelvis?
No, it's in pieces completely until between 6 and 7, there's a pic somewhere of the bones at different ages. I mean, it's possible that the people who do the training have the wrong bone. But that's what I've heard it called. It doesn't ossify until you're an adult, but it's not completely separate and is strong enough to help keep a child from "submarining" or sliding down under the belt in a crash, leading to seatbelt syndrome (massive internal injuries due to the soft tissue and organs in the abdomen slamming into the seatbelt.)
Of note, some booster seats have features that help prevent this by acting as a "false hip." But many seats do not fit children under 6 or 7 correctly.
Age, height, and seatbelt fit in an individual car are much more important than weight in how a belt fits and whether a booster is needed. My oldest is very slim and tall and will probably outgrow the need for a booster before she hits 90 lbs. But there are some adults who might benefit from one; someone posted on one of my carseat boards asking if there was an age limit because her 4'8" sister-in-law was in a crash and sustained massive internal injuries due to poor seatbelt fit. She is buying a backless booster seat with a wide seat and her sister-in-law will start using a booster and pedal extenders when she completes her physical therapy (she also had broken bones) and is able to drive again.
And some vehicle belts don't fit almost anyone correctly. I'm average-sized but I am uncomfortable with the way the belt hits me in my almost-step-mother's Rav4 and could probably benefit from a backless booster in that car. I've met very few people who have driven/ridden in that car and say that the belt fit them correctly and comfortably.
[ January 27, 2009, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: ketchupqueen ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I think Maggie misses Jeff. She signed "more" at me, but I tried to feed her and she shook her head. I asked, "More what? More play? More food? More na-na?" She said, "Abba! Abba!" while signing "More." I think I need to teach her to sign "want!"
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I think Maggie misses Jeff. She signed "more" at me, but I tried to feed her and she shook her head. I asked, "More what? More play? More food? More na-na?" She said, "Abba! Abba!" while signing "More." I think I need to teach her to sign "want!"
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan:
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: He could make it to 6 or 7 when his iliac crest is fused
I'm confused about what you mean by this. The iliac crest typically beings ossifying at around age 12-13 for girls and 14-15 for boys and fuses to the ilium at some point between 15 and 23 years of age. Do you mean some other part of the pelvis?
No, it's in pieces completely until between 6 and 7, there's a pic somewhere of the bones at different ages. I mean, it's possible that the people who do the training have the wrong bone. But that's what I've heard it called. It doesn't ossify until you're an adult, but it's not completely separate and is strong enough to help keep a child from "submarining" or sliding down under the belt in a crash, leading to seatbelt syndrome (massive internal injuries due to the soft tissue and organs in the abdomen slamming into the seatbelt.)
Which are you saying is in pieces, the iliac crest or the entire pelvis? The pelvis is in at least two pieces until 11 to 14 years for girls and 14 to 17 years for boys when the ilium fuses to the ischiopubis. I don't know if the iliac crest is in separate pieces when it's cartilaginous or even when the cartilaginous form appears, but it's not going to be fused to the ilium until at least age 15. The only mention of something occurring between 6 and 7 in the two juvenile osteology books I'm using for reference is this: "It is said that the pubic organs descend fully into the pelvic cavity by 6 years of age and presumably this reflects the time at which the complex has grown sufficiently in all diameters to allow complete descent." I can definitely see that protecting the internal organs in a crash.
I want to make clear that I'm not questioning your knowledge of car seat safety. I'm just questioning the iliac crest part.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Okay. I should have said "contiguous" instead of "fused." I don't know where I got the word fused but it stuck in my head. Anyway, there's a gap that eventually closes around 6 or 7 and makes the hips better able to hold a belt and prevent submarining. Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
KQ, since this has come up, there's something I've been meaning to ask you. My son is 6 (like, nearly 7), but he's tiny. He's just under 40 pounds. He's still in his booster seat with the 5-point harness, but I'm not sure whether to take off the harness and switch him to the belt-booster yet. He's tall enough, but doesn't weigh enough (the seat supposedly works with the harness up to 40 pounds). What is the danger in using the harness longer? Or is there a benefit to keeping him IN the harness even though he's taller than your average toddler?
Does this even make sense?
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
How often do your babies fall? I feel like maybe I let Ellie fall too often. It seems like almost everyday she topples over at least once. She is a pretty good sitter but sometimes she just decides to let herself fall over in pursuit of some toy. I don't know what to do to prevent this from happening. I don't want to sit with her constantly because I have things to get done but really because I want her to be able to play with her toys on the floor for ten minutes while I am doing something. I guess I just worry. She never seems worse for wear after I pick her up and we do have pretty thick carpet.
Sorry that turned into a bit of a ramble. I just wonder if other people's babies do the same thing.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If you have thick carpet and it doesn't seem to upset her much, I wouldn't worry about it.
If you have a Boppy or similar, you can use that to help prop her up. Although it may not do much if she's doing this as a deliberate method of locomotion. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
theresa, I totally know what you mean. From the time baby K was learning to sit up to when she mastered walking (and, ok, sometimes still [14 months]) I wondered if I was a bad mother for letting her fall too often and how many times you can hit your head before it starts to impact your intelligence... I think it's just part of the process though. She doesn't seem unusually unintelligent for a one-year-old, at least Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hey, I dropped my oldest on her head when she was a baby (she actually had x-rays because of it)!
If it cost her any IQ points, we still haven't noticed 'em. She's 14 now.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I'm trying hard not to have weight envy. We have weight checks. Again. The twins had their 2-week appt. today and neither one has reached her birth weight. Camille now needs a supplement for 1/2 her feedings. Leni is gaining the smallest amount you can gain and not need a supplement. Why are all my babies so small? Andrew and I were huge babies and we're both average weight (well, I will be again someday). Andrew is 6'5'' for goodness sake! Why are my babies not chunks? I'm convinced that I have to have a singleton term boy to finally get a properly chubby baby.
I've accepted that the twins will just get banged up. Between clonking each other accidentally and a rambunctious older sister, they're going to get some boo-boos. I was much more nervous with Aerin.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
theresa, our kids fall all the time. Babies are tough. They have to be since they fall all the time!
Jenna, I'm going to move the q to the car seat question thread since we're derailing again.
[ January 27, 2009, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: ketchupqueen ]
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Thnaks for the reassurance. I know in my head she's ok but when she falls for the umpteenth time it is hard not to feel like you are doing something wrong.
Mrs. M I had the opposite. My little one was off the chart for height and weight for the first 5 months and my husband and I are both 5'6" and both weigh less than 150 lbs. I am not sure where are chunky tall baby came from. Our doctor kept trying to get us to wait longer in between feedings. It never really worked though and eventually she just started to come back towards a more average percentage as she got older. I hope the extra supplements help put a little extra chunk on.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hey, I dropped my oldest on her head when she was a baby (she actually had x-rays because of it)!
If it cost her any IQ points, we still haven't noticed 'em. She's 14 now.
My mom reminds me that I fell out of the car as an infant. (KQ it was pre-car seat) It was winter, and I was wrapped up a big blanket, laying on the front seat. Mom took a left turn a little too fast, the door flew open, I flew out, hit the road and started to unroll. By the time she got stopped, the blanket was unrolled accross the road and I was in the snow bank at the curb. I've never missed any IQ points eather.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Oh my goodness.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Exactly my reaction.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You do not know what that story did to me. *shudders*
Posted by Pegasus (Member # 10464) on :
When my wife was a young kid she opened the car door and fell out in the middle of a busy 4 lane street. A stranger picked her up out of the path of a large truck.
Not before seatbelts, just before responsible & aware parents.
Course, that implies that her parents became responsible & aware. Which is debatable.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Camille is now refusing to latch in the football position, which means that I can't feed both girls at once. Not good since they both get hungry at the same time. I have many coping strategies, but it would be much better if they ate together. They're also starting to want snacks between their insanely long meals. I'm getting a little haggard - I've lost almost 50 pounds since having them. I have a call in to the lactation nurse.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Mrs. M, I think it's great your breastfeeding them both right now. But don't risk your health, okay?
It's okay to supplement twins. A lot of mothers I know who have breastfed twins have a schedule of which baby gets the breast and which gets the bottle, at rotating feedings.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Kq is right, but also remember that when exclusively breastfeeding even just one baby there are days, every time they hit a growth spurt, when it seems like all they do is eat. It ups your supply, gets them through the growth spurt, and then they settle down again.
John had those days like clockwork at 2 weeks, 6 weeks, two months, four months . . . they always seemed to hit on a Friday and we called them feeding frenzy Fridays. Charles has been a little less predictable, but he has them too. There'll be a period of at least 12 hours where I'm lucky to get a bathroom break because the kid is latched on every waking minute and barely sleeps.
Also there are other tandem positions that work for infants and don't require the football hold. Have you tried a modified cradle hold with their bodies angled out slightly and crossed at the legs?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Mrs. M, I hope your babies start gaining that weight soon! And you, too. I recommend a big can of nuts. You can grab a handful every time you feed the babies and it has lots of calories in it for very little effort.
Do you have anyone taking care of you right now? When I had my baby, a bunch of people dropped off meals. It was very helpful.
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Squee! Calista has figured out that backwards is a valid direction of locomotion! She's been crawling around backwards for the last two days.
Mrs. M-I feel for you. Calista is 6 months now and is hitting a growth spurt. That means that if I'm not offering it up every 2 hours, night and day, she lets me know. If that's the way that one breastfeeding baby is, I can't imagine two!
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
What about latching Camille first in cross-cradle on the MBF pillow and then having someone else help you latch Leni in football hold?
There were times with Nathaniel early on that I spent pretty much the whole day on the couch.
Good luck!
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
So far, they vastly prefer to eat alone. Last night I tried everything I could think of (including y'all's suggestions - thank you ) to no avail. I think Camille has nipple confusion - she's a much weaker nurser and will root frantically when my na-na is in her mouth. I have to hold it just right for her to suck. They're also using my na-nas as pacifiers, which I wouldn't have a problem with except I can't let one do that while the other one is screaming in hunger.
They're so much better at eating during the daytime. I'm sure my level of alertness has a lot to do with it, but it's a really big difference.
Leni (pronounced "Lay-nee" btw) absolutely won't take a bottle at all. I tried yesterday just to see and she refused and looked at me like I was nuts.
Posted by Minerva (Member # 2991) on :
You might also try feeding Camille from a small cup.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I used to use a medicine dropper to feed supplements to avoid nipple confusion. My son didn't like it much but it got him fed and motivated him to get to business on the breast! Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
It was very difficult to get Nathaniel to nurse at night for about the first two weeks he was home. Definite preference for the faster flow of the bottle. I prepped two 4-oz night time bottles every night (LOTS of extra breastmilk from when he was in NICU, so no problems there), tried to nurse every time he woke up, he wouldn't latch, we fed the bottle, then I pumped.
I think it made a difference that he was already *really* hungry by the time he had woken up and cried enough to wake me. During the day I watched his cues & tried to get started nursing before he was frantic. Maybe that's part of what's going on with your girls, too?
Is your husband able to help much at night?
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
It's just me at night - Andrew needs sleep to work.
I'm going to talk to my pediatrician and the lactation nurse first thing tomorrow because I just nursed for more than 8 hours with just bathroom breaks, plus one break for Aerin's bedtime routine. I don't know if I can keep that up. I pumped after hour 6, but Leni started to cry before I even got 2 ounces. I'm pretty sore and nauseous. I just hope this is normal for twins and that they pass their weight check on Tuesday.
My mother is leaving a week from today, but we'll be getting a mother's helper so I can get some rest during the day.
Of course tomorrow is the first time I'm taking Aerin to school with the twins, so we can't sleep in.
At least my Steelers won. Go Steelers! They win every time I have a baby, so I told Andrew that we have to have at least 2 more. But one at a time.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I second syringe or dropper feeding, or trying a cup. Just remember that you don't feed a cup the same way you do a bottle (Bridget always tried to give Maggie a cup like a bottle and it just doesn't work. )
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
With both my babies, I told my husband to go to sleep because he needed to get up and go to work and his response was that I had important work the next day too.
As it happens, he does a lot better than I do on just a few hours of sleep. I think if it were just me I'd have to hire a nanny.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
They ended up sleeping through the night. Whoo hoo! I think they were as exhausted as I was. They haven't been quite so hungry today, though the day isn't over. We got Aerin to school without any problems and I even took the twins to Staples. Of course, I haven't been able to finish a meal in less than 3 sittings, but that's the life of a twin momma.
I don't mind doing nights by myself and Andrew can't function at all without adequate sleep. I wouldn't even trust him to drive if he got up with me. I can go for months and be just fine, so it works out okay. He's very helpful during his waking hours.
It's interesting how different the twins are. Camille loves the bottle and would probably happily give up nursing for it, though she is getting better and better. And she loves Mylicon. Leni refuses bottles and is a fantastic nurser and hates Mylicon.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Yay!
That was always my experience with the feeding frenzies -- eat like crazy, then sleep like a log and then return to something approaching normal. I have a hard time remembering that in the middle of the eat like crazy part, though.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Mrs. M, that's great. Though I have to say that I would probably pump on one side while Leni eats, and give Camille the milk in bottles, just to make my life easier, if they went on another "feeding frenzy" as dkw puts it!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Wow, eight hour nursing session! That's intense! You are amazing, Mrs. M.
James had his 12 month check up today. Stats:
20 lbs. 2 oz (12th percentile) 29 inches (24th percentile) 47.5 cm head (80th percentile)
Yep. Still a little guy with a big head! The doctor was happy with his growth and loved his personality (he's really a social little guy!). And I was happy to see that he reached 20 pounds. I thought he'd been feeling heavier lately!
I can't believe he's already a year old!
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Thanks for the support, y'all. I've looked up a ton of stuff online and it all boils down to, "Nursing twins stinks and there's nothing you can do to make it easier, but do it anyway." It made me feel so much better to hear from mommas I know and love.
The twins passed their weight checks! Leni is 6 pounds, 8.5 ounces and Camille is 6 pounds, 1.5 ounces. Leni has finally surpassed her birth weight and Camille only has 1.5 ounces to go. We're excused from weight checks for the time being.
quote:I have a hard time remembering that in the middle of the eat like crazy part, though.
Tell me about it. The twins mostly sleep through the night, but I completely forget that on the rare bad night we have.
kq, I don't think Leni would eat if I pumped at the same time. We're just at a point where I can watch t.v. with the sound off while I nurse them. Thank goodness for my iPod, because I can only sing so much and sometimes my voice stimulates them too much.
hansenj, happy birthday to Baby James! I saw his pictures on Facebook and what a sparkplug! He just looks like the cutest, happiest little guy. And big heads hold big brains, so good for him.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I'm always so jealous of people whose babies sleep through the night early on. At eight months, Duplo is still not doing it. Lego didn't until I made him learn at 18 months. *sigh*
I'm glad for your sake that you're at least getting decent sleep, though, Mrs.M. I can't imagine caring for twins while sleep deprived.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
At 28 months, John sleeps through the night if he starts the night in our bed. If he starts the night in his own bed he often wakes up and crawls in with us sometime between 1 and 3 and immediately goes back to sleep. We make sure to leave his step stool at the foot of the bed so he can get up by himself. I'm all about the lazy nighttime parenting -- he's welcome anytime, but I don't want to have to sit up to pull him in. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I second the lazy night-time parenting. I wouldn't've felt comfortable cosleeping with Nathaniel when he was teeny--but now!! It is wonderful!!! He still wakes up at least once a night, I'd say--usually around 5 AM--but the truth is I'm not positive about that. I've said more than once to my husband: "Hey! I think he slept through the night last night...oh, wait. Hm. Maybe not. I'm not sure."
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Mrs. M, I never thought of that because I don't really "pump"; I put a cup under the na-na while the kid is on the other one and let the milk fill it up... I guess that would be really distracting. Too bad though.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I am rather amazed by Maggie's attention span. She will sit still and listen happily to a whole (or almost a whole-- sometimes she makes it just to the last page) Boynton board book before she grabs the book to eat it and wave it in the air. She loves books. She loves stories. Of course the attention span also shows up when you are trying to distract her with a toy you want her to have instead of the dangerous/fragile thing she's got...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Co-sleeping didn't work as well for me with Celeste as it did with Drake -- she started kicking and flailing after about 3 months! It was great before that but by about 4 months I had to kick her out and now I'm just sooo tired. I'm ready to let her CIO all night long but my husband doesn't think she's read because she's not a good self soother. She does rather remind me of myself in terms of anxiety. Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
((Christine)) I know that must be so hard for your whole family. (especially you!)
As for books--Nathaniel loves them. He has favorites. He will listen to The Foot Book by Dr. Seuss as many times as we are willing to read it. He used to sometimes like looking at pictures and turning pages, but now we are required to always read, too. If I don't get started reading a page fast enough, he'll turn around & look at me & say "Bap."
Daddy thinks it's funny to deliberately read the wrong thing (for example, in the animal book, instead of reading "Bear. Bee," he'll say, "Potato. Ostrich."
Nathaniel won't turn the page until Daddy reads the right words. If Daddy keeps it up, he gets scolded with a "Bap."
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Mrs.M - I'm so glad to hear the twins are doing well! I'm so impressed that you're nursing both of them. That's awesome!
((Christine)) Sleeping problems really are awful. I hope you're able to find something that works for you.
Beanie started waking up a lot at night again a couple weeks ago. She's slowly reducing the number of times she wakes up (we're down to about 4 times a night), which is good because I'm so tired (and being sick makes me even more tired).
She's always loved books. Her favorite thing is to just turn the pages. She's obsessed with opening and closing (books, doors, cabinets, tupperware, plastic easter eggs, etc.). Edit: Just this afternoon she was sitting reading a book to herself. I was holding the book as she flipped pages and said "A yeah, a yeah" to herself.
I'm having lots of fun with my budding "big helper". Her favorite thing lately has been helping me push the laundry basket around when I do laundry. She'll look up at me while she's pushing and grin. She also loves carrying things around for me. It's so precious.
[ February 04, 2009, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
So, Maggie woke up sick this morning. She's had a fever all day and she's refusing food, even bread (her favorite.) She actually took the bread, looked at it, and threw it. Instead, she has been nursing non-stop (and I kid you not) for the past 9 hours. She nurses on one side for about 10 minutes, takes a 1 minute breather, switches to the other side. If I take her off for a minute and lay her down (to change her diaper, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, try to care for her sisters...) she screams. It's heartbreaking. So today has been a tv day; the older two are watching PBS and I am on the computer while the baby nurses. And nurses. And nurses. And I think my nipples are going to fall off.
I know she's doing what her body needs to stay healthy but it's starting to wear on me. I took a nap with her and she nursed all through the 2 hour nap. I think we're ordering dinner in tonight because I can't even make the kids sandwiches at this rate.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Awww, poor Maggie! I hope she feels better soon.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, she screamed but I HAD to eat. We had dinner delivered and I just let her scream while I scarfed it down. What else could I do? All I'd had today was a French pastry at noon and a few cups of water. I couldn't keep it up. Now she's back on me and I'm drinking my huge extra-large horchata and feeling somewhat better. I sure hope she gets over it soon though.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
So, um, Maggie introduced herself to dairy... twice in 2 days... and now chocolate, too...
Yesterday she grabbed Bridey's pizza, and took a bite.
Today, she grabbed her chocolate milk and started chugging it down while my back was turned.
This is the problem of having the baby "eat with the family" when you have a two year old who is not always attentive to her food and/or thinks it's funny when her sister tries to eat it.
I think I'm going to give in and let her have dairy. (Not milk, obviously, but cheese and yogurt and such.)
I've never allowed it before just before 12 months, but she seems to be a fairly non-allergic child (hasn't reacted to anything yet, unlike her sisters) and I'm inclined to think it will make my life easier, and my ped is okay with it after 9 months (she's almost 10 months now.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Is Maggie feeling better?
There are a lot of different opinions on when non-milk dairy is ok, anyway. (I've never seen anything but 1 year for milk itself.) I went with 8 months for both of my kids. I was following a book to the letter for my son and that's what it said. With Celeste I've been following her lead and doing more table foods from the start but 8 months still seemed right. I'm not doing a lot of dairy, though because it's more filling and seems to encourage faster weaning than I'd like, but introducing it really does open the door to letting the baby eat a lot of the foods we eat.
I'm actually following a completely different plan with Celeste and liking it much better. I started her on table foods, skipped the purees entirely, and just let her explore the foods at her own pace. Now she's eating all kinds of things -- last night she had pizza with spinach and pine nuts. Loved it!
She and I have been splitting an avocado for lunch for weeks now. I'd never had avocado (except in guacamole) but it seemed like a great first food because it's so soft and mashable. Now I'm putting avocado in everything -- salad, sandwiches, pizza...mmmmm....I'm obsessed. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My kids eat avocado early, great stuff.
Because of a family history (a big one) of severe allergies and asthma, we tend to introduce foods very, very slowly to our kids (although I go easy on the purees and let them have table foods from early on, they like that, but I keep the ingredients limited.) I want to make darned sure that if they're allergic to something I know what it is, and I give plenty of time to find out between foods.
Maggie is feeling somewhat better. she's still a bit warm now and then, and sleeping a bit more than usual, but after 2 days of non-stop nursing and lethargic behavior, she had a NASTY smelling green diaper, and shortly her fever broke, plummeting from 102 after the Tylenol to about 99. So I guess she really did do what her body needed. She's still not eating as MUCH solid food as she has been, and nursing more, but she's doing better, energy-wise.
I think this is the first time one of my babies has ever gotten sick and GAINED weight. She nursed so much she gained a pound in 2 days. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
My mother left today and we don't have a mother's helper lined up yet and I'm on the verge of freaking out. Tomorrow is my first day alone with all 3 girls and I don't know how I'm going to do it. Obviously I will, but I just can't stand to let the twins cry at all and I think I'm going to have to a little because Aerin needs to eat and get dressed and go to school.
They still won't eat at the same time. I think Leni would, but Camille is still a much weaker nurser and absolutely refuses. She's getting better, but still. I'm worried that they've gotten so used to eating alone that they won't ever eat together. That would be okay if they would let me put them down. They're going through this phase and it's killing me. Leni will go in the sling, but Camille hardly ever will. I can't think of a good solution and I'm not looking forward to the next few weeks.
Our honeymoon period is definitely over.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
!!!
That really ended up in the WRONG thread!!!
[ February 08, 2009, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by pepperuda (Member # 1573) on :
Congratulations to all the mothers on board. And congratulations to Mrs. M on the twins. My husband prays for twins with every pregnancy. I haven't been here for a long while. I'm really supposed to be working on my master's while my husband takes the day off with the kids, but I just finished retyping half of a 25 page document that I lost and I'm taking a break.
I have been recently thinking of switching my 10 month old son to whole milk. We just found out that we are pregnant with our third and it seems to be getting harder to nurse, but he won't take formula, so it was good to hear that it might be ok. Our pediatrician really sticks to the one year mark.
As for books, my two year old loves them and always has as far as I can remember except for the couple of months at about one when she thought it was fun to bend the board books backwards until they broke. She reads constantly, quotes them, and tells the stories to her dolls. She remembers quotes from library books we read 6 months ago. I am constantly amazed by her. Currently we really like the Fancy Nancy books but it changes weekly.
Her little brother on the other hand is only interested in closing the books and eating them, which causes Alexa no end of frustration.
Condolences to all those with children with sleeping problems. Sleep deprivation is the pits. I don't expect to sleep through the night for another 10-20 years. Alexa had sleep apnea and woke up hourly until we had her tonsils and adnoid removed at 18 months. Hyrum doesn't sleep much better (waking about every two hours), but he gets to sleep with us because I am just too dang tired to do anything else and he doesn't kick nearly as much as his sister. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a middle of the night party with all the other mothers who are also up in the middle of the night, but I would never dare phone anyone on the chance that they are actually sleeping.
Ok ok. back to work. Carry on.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Whole milk before 12 months is a bad idea. Other dairy (cheese, yogurt) is less problematic.
Try a different brand of formula if nursing won't work for you anymore.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
What rivka said.
It's not just the potential allergy problems...it's also that whole milk doesn't have the nutrients infants need prior to 12 months.
(Oh, and welcome back!)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
More than that, whole milk in more than very small quantities puts too much strain on baby kidneys.
And yes, welcome back! And good luck on the masters'!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
If you have to wean, one thing you can do is to mix formula and breast milk ... start with mostly breast milk and then slowly tip the balance to formula. This has worked for a few women I've talked to.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, there's no way I'd give whole milk to a kid under one. Especially since my kids can't drink whole milk, it gives them tummy aches. I've never had a kid who consented to take anything with more than 2% fat. They get that from me...
When I say "dairy" in reference to what I will give my under-1 child, I mean "bread and baby foods with dairy ingredients, yogurt, cheese, etc." Posted by pepperuda (Member # 1573) on :
Blushes. Hey thanks. I'm sorry I misunderstood. I guess it's easier to hear what you want to hear when you want an easy solution. I'm glad I checked back before I gave him anything. We'll keep trying.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good luck!
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
My daughter loves the Wiggles CD that my mother gave her for Christmas. She laughs, claps and dances to the music. The problem you say... Its driving me nuts at this point. Anyone have suggestions for something in a similar vein she might like. I don't actually mind the Wiggles, its just the repetition of one CD over and over that drives me crazy. So it can be similar in style just with different songs.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The Wiggles have about ten gazillion CDs. I like Here Comes the Big Red Car best of all their albums I've heard.
You might try Raffi, too. I've always thought, since we started listening to the Wiggles, that they are this generation's Raffi. My kids love both The Wiggles and Raffi.
Oh, and They Might Be Giants have some awesome kids' albums too.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Here comes the big red car is what we currently have. I just ordered her a couple more Wiggles cds but I would like more variety too. I love TMBGs but Ellie doesn't get into them the way she does with the Wiggles. I'll have to give some Raffi a try. I always thought of Raffi as more quiet music. Maybe I haven't tried the right Raffi.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
May I suggest Rhapsody? My kids love it because I can find them just about anything they want to listen to. We have a "To Go" subscription, for about $17/mo. we can load music on our mp3 players for the car, the park, whatever as well as listening at home from the computer. I think we get something like 4 computers and 3 devices (mp3 players) authorized on our account for that price.
Raffi sings a mix of original, silly songs and traditional songs, as The Wiggles do; they both are very kid-centered and kids love them. That's why I have always felt they were similar. They have the same "feel" to their music.
Raffi sings lots of non "quiet" songs. Try "Little Red Wagon," "Brown Girl In the Ring," "Down By the Bay," "Joshua Giraffe," "Something in My Shoe," and "Yellow Submarine." Those are my kids' favorites he does (well, besides "Baby Beluga" of course) and always get them dancing.
And speaking of "Yellow Submarine" and dancing, have you tried her on The Beatles? I have met very few toddlers who don't dance to The Beatles. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Sandra Boynton and a whole host of musicians put together a CD called Dog Train that's actually quite good, and Lego likes it too. Wee Sing Silly Songs (and other Wee Sing albums) were a favorite of mine when I was little. And for an little-known Canadian goodie, try Fred Penner.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
One of our favorite preschool songs was the song from the Beatles Yellow Submarine Album with the counting and alphabet and then climbing into bed. No wonder I'm so messed up.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You mean "All Together Now?"
"One two three four, can I have a little more? Five six seven eight nine ten, I love you!"
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
quote:My husband prays for twins with every pregnancy.
Mine prays for a singleton. Another set of twins (or more) is one of our greatest fears. And our doctors'.
What about rice milk instead of dairy? We didn't give it to Aerin until she was well over a year old, but it might be okay. Aerin is lactose intolerant and soy milk doesn't agree with her, so rice milk has been perfect for us. Obviously, everyone should ask your own doctor before trying, but it might work.
We have a lot of childrens' music, but my kids mostly listen to what I listen to anyway. Aerin's favorite dance songs are I Wanna Be Sedated by The Ramones and Sinnerman by Nina Simone. She also loves Johnny Cash. The CD that quiets all the girls in the car is Celtic Women. Works like a charm every time, but Andrew and I are so very sick of it.
The babies are one month old and will be 4 weeks old on Monday (they were born on 1/12, which was 4 Mondays ago). They're starting to look around more and make the cutest noises. They have very different personalities already and look nothing alike. I'm going to try to get out with them more, but their feeding schedule is killing me.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Thanks for all the music recommendations. I will have to give them a try. Maybe I will look for a cd for Valentine's day for Eliza. She does like the Beatles when it comes on the computer. I might have to look into picking up another Beatles Cd. Has anyone used the next step formula? I wasn't planning on using it and my pedi said that whole milk was fine at 1. However, I just got three medium sized cans in the mail as free samples. I am trying to decide if it is worth it to use them up. I am sure that is exactly what Enfamil wants me to do so I am hooked. I am worried it would start a habit and make it harder to transition to whole milk. But I also feel guilty about just throwing it out. Anyone have any experience on this one?
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Anybody hear about the latest peanut research, suggesting it may be a good idea to introduce peanuts earlier?
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I saw the results of the study in Parents magazine but they didn't mention the scope of the study. My pedi was still recommending not giving peanut butter but I am considering it. We don't have any food allergies on either side of our family. I may have to read more on the study.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was already planning to start PB when the baby is 1. That's when I started my son. My pediatrician says 3 and I think that's nuts. We don't even have any history of allergies.
I found an article about the study and it looked a bit inconclusive, to be honest. I'd say for those really worried about peanut butter allergies, not to jump to conclusions and that more study is needed.
The article mentioned that they recommend no peanuts while pregnant or nursing? Pfft! Not even.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Anybody hear about the latest peanut research, suggesting it may be a good idea to introduce peanuts earlier?
Yes I read the recent report. It looks like waiting longer to introduce peanut actually increases the chances of developing peanut allegies. It also appears that food allergies are being significantly overdiagnosed.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I did peanut butter at one. I didn't realize I was doing anything "wrong." My doctor said at one year, we could feed her anything, so we have.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I was told no tree nuts until 2 and no honey until 3. Everything else was ok at 1. Sometimes it drives me crazy how every doctor has a different answer.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
Our pediatrician told us our child was allergic to cow's milk, because he had persistent diarrhea when we let him have it. However he had no reaction to cheese or yogurt. We kept him on soy milk for over a year. Occasionally we'd try him back on cow's milk and it always resulted in diarrhea and terrible diaper rashes.
Finally one day I asked myself if he might just have a problem with the lactose. I bought a jug of Lactaid milk and he had no reaction to it. So we kept him on Lactaid for quite some time (we gave him the chewable tablets and then let him drink regular milk). Occasionally we'd try stopping the lactaid and he'd still have problems. But one day we tried milk without lactaid and he was fine, and has been since. I don't understand the causes of lactose intolerance well enough to understand what happened. I'm just glad he seems to be producing his own lactase now.
And I'm a little miffed that the pediatrician diagnosed an allergy when it seems actually to have been lactose intolerance.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I have stayed away from peanuts throughout pregnancy and nursing. I missed peanut butter something awful, then I found Sunbutter (from sunflower seeds) and almond butter, and all (most) of my peanut butter cravings are satisfied. I do miss butterfingers and reese's peanut butter cups, though.
The study said that the children in Britain who got peanuts much later were 10 times more likely to be allergic than kids in Israel who started eating peanuts from 8-14 months. (That's how I understood it, anyway.)
Since Katababy is nearly 1 year, I'm considering starting her on peanut butter in a few months. Not right away because she has had very few solid foods so far, so I'd like her to try other foods first.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Israeli kids are probably not getting peanut butter or actual peanuts at that age. They're mostly getting a horrible processed snack called Bamba -- full of saturated and trans fats, and loaded with sodium. (It is viewed as being healthy, because it's "all natural". )
Considering that peanut allergies appear to be less common among Ashkenazi Jews (and guess what the majority of Israelis are?) than the general Caucasian population, I think the study is utter hokum.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Oh wow. Really? That's a very irresponsible study!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
(I assume we're talking about the study my brother cited to me this summer. If not, I withdraw my objections.)
Hmm. One thing I didn't know was that both the populations were Jewish. That does remove one of my primary objections.
I still think Bamba is horrible stuff. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I only heard about it today--I don't know how old it is.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
So, Maggie went to sleep without me last night. (I didn't sleep.) She had to, poor kid, since I was in the PICU with Emma (who apparently has a UTI, which I didn't find out until her fever spiked from 99 to 103.5 and she had a febrile seizure. Yeah... Not fun.)
All I can say is OUCH. I am used to her nursing every few hours all night long and most of the morning too. I didn't see her for 16 hours. This morning I got desparate and one of the nurses got me a pumping kit and let me use the pump by the NICU to pump and dump. I felt really bad dumping 12 ounces (in 8 minutes! And I haven't pumped at all this baby-- I probably went slower than I would have if I had been used to it-- I just pumped enough to still be full but not UNCOMFORTABLY full) down the drain next to a NICU. But they have a lengthy pre-qualification process for donors, and they might not need milk from babies as old as mine anyway, and my baby won't drink expressed milk, and I don't personally know anyone who needs milk, so, down the drain it went.
So now I'm hoping that since I only pumped enough to not get too uncomfortable, and after the baby HADN'T been nursing when she usually WOULD be, I won't get mastitis. I've gotten some clogs today but none that couldn't be massaged away while the baby nursed so far. *crosses fingers*
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
...and she just cried herself to sleep while I took a bath. I am beginning to feel like she doesn't need me now. I know that's irrational since I should be ECSTATIC if she starts sleeping through the night... Except I'm not. Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Glad that Emma is ok. And I hope the milk sorts out ok.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
aww poor Emma. I hope she feels better.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Disclaimer: I have no intention of stopping nursing the twins.
That being said, I hate breastfeeding. It STINKS. I hate everything about it and I'm not at all convinced it's as fantastic as everyone swears it is. My babies are always hungry - shouldn't they be good enough at this to be satisfied for more than an hour? I feel so angry and betrayed by all the stupid educational material that make nursing sound so wonderful. It's not. It's so uncomfortable. Everything hurts, not just my na-nas. I have to wear a giant twin nursing pillow, which is fine, but I wear it so much that my neck and back are killing me.
It's like being back on bedrest - I'm trapped on the couch. And by the way, the literature is dead wrong - bottle feeding is much, much easier. I've done both and bottle feeding is the best. The baby is actually satisfied and everyone can get more than 2 hours of sleep. The baby gains weight much faster and is happier. And breastfeeding does not make babies less gassy at all. Bottle feeding rocks. And those super-helpful websites are just filled with such useful information. Like, take a nursing vacation - take the baby to bed for 2-3 days and just nurse. Wow, that's so realistic.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I imagine that those who say breastfeeding is awesome have only breastfed one baby at a time--I know that's me. And I did have times where I felt that feeding the baby was all I did. When Katababy was littler, she'd often go through stages when she wanted to eat nearly constantly. It's just that she was growing and needed fuel. Now if I were feeding TWO babies?? I imagine it would have been much, much harder.
I didn't always enjoy it, except for knowing that I was doing something good for my baby. I didn't have it as bad as you, but I have had my share of bad soreness. I think that the memory of it fades, because I have to really think about it and then I remember how uncomfortable it could be!
Now that Katababy is one (on Monday!), I'm still breastfeeding all the time. She eats some table food, but she gets all of her nutrition from me. And she has teeth. 4 on the top, 4 on the bottom. It was really tough getting through her biting stage. I had to train her not to bite. OW did that hurt! (She still bites sometimes, but it's not so bad, and it's only when she's distracted.)
But my point is, that it may get better for you, as you "toughen up," so to speak. I'm not nearly as sensitive as I used to be.
Hang in there. You're doing something extraordinary, in many ways. The obvious one is how good it is for your babies, but what I really mean is--you're nursing twins!! It sure as heck is going to be hard, and we mothers with only singletons won't really be able to understand how tough it is. But we can sympathize!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I think your experience varies by person. My breastfeeding experiences have been mostly wonderful. (Except after being away from Maggie for a week, that was rough.) But I know a woman who has pain every. single. time. she nurses the baby, every single SINGLE time EVER. She still does it for a year per baby but that is her limit and she puts the baby on a schedule. I would too, if it hurt that much!
Hopefully yours will not be that rotten an experience.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Breastfeeding experiences do vary greatly from mother to mother, and nursing twins is definitely much harder than nursing one. That said, it seems to me it shouldn't be as hard as what you are going through. Please contact a lactation consultant -- they may be able to make some suggestions that make the experience more pleasant for you.
Good luck!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
*hugs*
Can you try nursing in different chairs? I have a hard time getting proper back support nursing on a couch, and if you can get some relief for the back and neck pain it might help. You'd need a pretty big armchair to nurse twins, though. Maybe more pillows around you? In my most comfortable positions for tandem nursing the boys I was almost buried in pillows -- supporting me, supporting them -- you're spending a significant chunk of time doing this, you don't want it putting strain on your back and neck.
In fact, I almost forgot, we bought one of those read-in-bed pillows with arms. Not one of the cheap ones that are just stuffed but a good one with back support and an adjustable headrest. That helped a lot for the first couple months.
There are some crummy things about nursing that you're just stuck with -- you're attached to the babies all the time, you might feel all touched out, you are ALWAYS the "go-to" parent no matter how much your husband and/or friends and relatives are helping. But the physical pain parts should be fixable.
Cheers to you! You're feeding babies, and that's wonderful, even though it sucks.
(I have to wonder about the people that put out the educational materials you get though. They seem to have very romanticized views about both pregnancy and nursing. Who's writing this stuff?)
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
(((Mrs M))))
Have you tried feeding in your sling? I find it's helpful just to take some of Toby's weight, so my arms/back don't get too sore. I think it would only work for one baby at a time though.
quote: you are ALWAYS the "go-to" parent no matter how much your husband and/or friends and relatives are helping
I find this one irritating. Just sometimes, I want a break! (Pumping helps here though.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Thought this was an appropriate place to post that the AAP is catching up to "best practice" in their car seat recommendations. They just released a new position statement that children should rear face to at least 2 years (or the limits of their seats). Their old recommendation was "children may forward face at a minimum of 1 year and 20 lbs., but it is best to rear-face to the limits of the seat." This is much more strongly worded and acknowledges that rear-facing is 5 times safer through age two (it's four times safer through age 3, but most kids won't make it that far by weight/height-- unless Graco comes through with that 40 lb. rear-facing convertible we've been hearing rumors of...)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Mrs. M., My sister had a very similar experience breast feeding her twins. She could never get her twins to tandem feed successfully so she was always feeding one of them, or pumping so she'd have milk for a bottle if they both needed to be fed at the same time. By the time they reached 6 months, both twins got so they wouldn't breast feed anymore because the bottle was so much easier. Her experience and yours seem fairly typical. Breast feeding twins just sucks.
From everything I've heard, tandem feeding twins and tandem feeding a new born and a toddler are two completely different experiences. Enough so that advice from Mom's that are breast feeding a baby and a toddler is just frustrating to Mom's of twins.
No matter what breast feeding fanatics say, not all babies thrive on their mother's milk and not all mother's are able to produce enough nutrition for one baby, let alone two. If your twins are always hungry and aren't gaining enough weight, you may simply be unable to produce enough food for the two of them. Don't give up on breast feeding, but it's not a sin to supplement.
Oh, and I should add that the advice my sister got from the lactation consultant was worse the useless. What she got was a guilt trip, a bunch of literature on the importance for breast feeding for a minimum of two years and absolutely nothing useful for the specific problems she was facing.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Mrs. M -- how are things going now? I missed your post last month but I know that a lot of women think BF sucks big time early on and start to enjoy it later. I know that was my experience with my first baby in particular. He never left my breast and if he'd been double -- yikes! It took me almost 3 months but I did learn to love to BF him.
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Thought this was an appropriate place to post that the AAP is catching up to "best practice" in their car seat recommendations. They just released a new position statement that children should rear face to at least 2 years (or the limits of their seats). Their old recommendation was "children may forward face at a minimum of 1 year and 20 lbs., but it is best to rear-face to the limits of the seat." This is much more strongly worded and acknowledges that rear-facing is 5 times safer through age two (it's four times safer through age 3, but most kids won't make it that far by weight/height-- unless Graco comes through with that 40 lb. rear-facing convertible we've been hearing rumors of...)
I've heard this before but next month my daughter gets the flip! The seat only goes up to 22 pounds anyway and I'm not buying another rear-facing one. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
What a difference a month makes. We have some new challenges, but things have gotten easier overall. I'm still nursing exclusively. Both babies absolutely refuse bottles and have started rejecting binkies about 1/2 the time. I'm going to return the pump - it's just gathering dust at this point. They are finally, finally eating together, which is great. Of course, they've taken it to the extreme and won't nurse by themselves anymore. It's weird and inconvenient, since I don't (and can't) tandem nurse in public. I feed them right before we leave the house and don't go anywhere we can't come back from in less time than their next feeding.
They're growing well enough that we don't need weight checks anymore. They're too tall for NB sizes, but they still swim in the 0-3 months sizes. Leni loves to nurse and will nurse in her sleep. Camille has gotten a lot better, but still prefers sleeping to eating. Not surprisingly, Leni is more than a pound heavier! We call her the Hulk. Of course, since she's one of my babies, that doesn't even put her in the 25th percentile. The staff at my pediatricians' office is excited that they're even on the chart at all. Aerin wasn't until she was about 14 months.
I'm physically drained, which is getting old fast. I've finally stopped losing weight, but it's a pain to get the calories in. My back and neck are still hurting and I'm starting to get blinding shoulder pains.
We're all getting 5-hour stretches of sleep every night and that has greatly improved everyone's quality of life.
It's so nice to be able to vent to people who not only understand what I'm going throught, but who are lovingly supportive. It makes all the difference in the world.
BTW, both babies started smiling, which is AWESOME.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I'm glad things are going better Mrs M.
Toby is growing so fast - he's rolling around now, and quite competent at making his way from one side of the room to the other. He's also discovered his feet, which he loves to grab while I'm changing him. Makes it a challenge to see if I can whip the dirty nappy off before he gets his feet in it and then grabs them...
A smile. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Mrs. M, that's wonderful and I'm glad to hear it!
imogen, he is sooooo adorable.
Christine, I am sorry to hear that. I would urge you to read the Kyle David Miller Foundation page on rear-facing and Joel's Journey, about a child who could have been rear-facing and was injured because he was not, before you make a decision to forward-face a 22 lb. child. There are convertible seats available that will rear-face to 35 lbs. and then should last you long enough forward-facing to get to a safe booster age, for under $200. If you still decide to forward-face, it's legal at one year, and of course your decision. I hope you are never in a crash anyway, I've been in enough that I'm beginning to think I'm cursed. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Honestly, it's not the money. We're not that tight. It's the behavior! Both of my babies were sick of facing the back wall well before their first birthdays. My son was worse since he didn't even have a sibling to play with -- he wanted to turn around as early as 6 months and driving with him became a chore...especially since he wasn't legal to flip around until 14 months! (He was just under 19 lbs on his first birthday.) Celeste lasted longer, but in the past month she has started to get fed up with her view. She's very fussy on car trips unless my son is actively playing with her. She practically jumps into my arms when I go to get her out. (Of course, I could be misinterpreting her behavior and it could be general dissatisfaction with being in a car, but my son got a lot better in the car the moment we put him in a forward-facing seat so I'm biased.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Mrs M. - I'm so glad to hear that! 25th percentile seems pretty big to me, too. My son spent most of the first two years of his life around the 5th-10th percentiles. My 25th percentile daughter looks practically chubby to me! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Christine, when mine were babies, they made mats and such that could be hung over the seatback (so right in front of a rear-facing child). Not sure if it would keep an 18-month-old from objecting to being rear-facing, but it helped with a 9-month-old.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
We got the go-ahead (finally) to flip Nathaniel at his 15-month appointment, but fortunately for us he is easygoing and perfectly happy to be rear-facing, so we'll keep him that way for at least a few more months, I'd say.
Mrs. M., I am SO happy to hear that the twins are tandeming for you...and that you're sleeping. I have thought about you and those babies often over the last month.
Nathaniel has had cold after cold since January. (And "cold" is putting it mildly: pneumonia, RSV, bronchitis, and an ear infection.) I'm praying that now that it's April he'll be able to go longer than 2 weeks without being on antibiotics. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Christine, I can tell you from both experience and talking to other moms that this is something that many, many kids go through at around that age (any time between 9 and 19 months.) Here's the consensus from talking to them-- it's normal and it happens whether they're rear- or forward-facing. Sometimes the change is enough of a distraction that they stop complaining-- but usually within the time the distraction wears off they would have outgrown/got over it anyway.
Can I ask you to try an experiment before you decide to turn her, and see if it helps?
Is she still in an infant carrier? If so, you can try switching her to a convertible seat, installed more upright than for a newborn. If she's in a convertible, is it installed at the full 45 degree angle? If so, will you try installing it more upright (up to a 30 degree angle, measured from a vertical line perpendicular to the ground, with most seats-- 35 if you have a True Fit, but that's the only exception I know of.) This sitting more upright provides a better view, is completely safe (actually safer for older babies than a full 45 degree recline) and provides enough of a change that most kids will be distracted like they would if you flipped them.
It's just something that you might try before you decide to turn around, considering that rear-facing is something you don't want to have to do too soon! A lot of parents have found it helps a bunch.
If the convertible is already upright, the car play mat (a soft one) like rivka suggested might be another thing to try before giving up.
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
We have teeth! They're finally here! Two of them, all of a sudden, after months of teething!
Yay!
Now we have to worry about teaching her not to bite Mommy at mealtime! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That... and she'll probably start cutting the next two in about a week.
Seriously, though, I've found that the pain right before the teeth break through is usually the worst; they learn pretty quickly not to bite if you take away their food every time they do!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
John bit occaisionally until he was about a year old. I put him down every time, and he'd stop until the next tooth started coming in. I remember when he quit entirely, because it was one of the first multi-word sentence conversations we had. He asked to nurse, I said, "You want to nurse?" and he said, "Nurse. Bite? Done!" And he never bit again after that.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
Can I ask you to try an experiment before you decide to turn her, and see if it helps?
Is she still in an infant carrier? If so, you can try switching her to a convertible seat, installed more upright than for a newborn. If she's in a convertible, is it installed at the full 45 degree angle? If so, will you try installing it more upright (up to a 30 degree angle, measured from a vertical line perpendicular to the ground, with most seats-- 35 if you have a True Fit, but that's the only exception I know of.) This sitting more upright provides a better view, is completely safe (actually safer for older babies than a full 45 degree recline) and provides enough of a change that most kids will be distracted like they would if you flipped them.
Actually, we just got our new car seats in the mail today -- we got a pair of matching Graco Nautiluses for the kids. Celeste can't sit in one yet because it isn't a rear-facing seat, but she's really too long for the infant carrier so I got them early and was going to hand her down my son's Safety 1st car seat (which rear faces to 40 lbs, so if I decide to keep her that way, we're set) and put him in one of the new Gracos.
Aside from the behavior, I'm worried about the length. My son is only 28 lbs, so by the weight restrictions he could still be rear facing but his knees would be at his chin. That's not a concern for Celeste yet, but I was just remembering that when we did flip our son at 14 or 15 months, his legs were pretty cramped back there.
I'll play it by ear. If she likes the new car seat, I may leave her in it for a few months.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The Safety 1st 3-in-1 only rear-faces to 35 (or 33, depending on when it was made-- check the side label) lbs., just so you know. There is no seat currently on the U.S. market that rear-faces to more. The 40 lbs. is the forward-facing weight limit.
My kids have always found ways to be comfortable. You can tell older kids to try crossing their legs, though many figure it out on their own. Most kids bend their legs, throw them off the sides of the seat (what Maggie does) or put them up on the seat back.
Here's a photo gallery of older kids RF so you can see all the things they do with their legs. I've always wondered if they're comfortable but then I observe the way they sit when they play-- they really seem to do things that adults can't! And luckily, it's not a safety concern.
If RF doesn't work for you the good news is that the Nautilus does tend to fit kids at the lower end of the height/weight requirements pretty well.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
That's one thing I always wondered - where rear-facing older kids put their legs. Beanie is tiny (she just had her 15 month checkup and is under 20lbs/30" still) and is just getting to the point where her feet can touch the back of the seat, so I had wondered what she was going to do as she grew. I figured she would throw them off the side (she tends to do that already sometimes) and I'm glad to know there's not a safety concern about stuff like that. I'm glad she's never been unhappy about being rear facing. I figure part of that is that we have a sedan, so she can easily out the back window (and the sides of course) and isn't just staring at a seat back the whole time, the other part being that she's just a happy person in general.
I can't believe Toby is so big already! I'm so glad to hear that the twins are doing so well! I'm so in awe of you, Mrs. M, for nursing them!
I can't believe my little baby is so grown up already. She loves helping me, is practically running, and says Mama, Dada, Yeah (and signs "more"). She's sleeping well at night again finally (usually only waking up once during her 11 hour night). We're still nursing, but she's getting more into eating finger foods - her favorite right now is Cheerios (she can eat more Cheerios in one sitting than I can possibly imagine fitting in her tiny stomach). I'm really loving being a mom - not that I didn't before, but she's really getting fun!
[ April 04, 2009, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Thanks, y'all. We've been hit by one bug after another. The babies aren't even 3 months and they're on their 3rd cold! Aerin keeps bringing them home from preschool.
Liz B, that's rough. We haven't needed antibiotics or even doctor visits, so I can imagine how grueling it's been for you. Summer is coming!
I bought a Weego carrier so I can hold both of them at once for extended periods of time. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
ludosti, I can't believe she's that big, either! And her helping looks like it actually helps. So cute! Aerin is also a Cheerios nut - a lot of the smaller ones seem to be.
Here's video of Camille's first smile. I got one of Leni smiling, too, but it's not up yet.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Those babies are soooo precious!
Maggie got her first shoes this weekend. Stride Rite. Didn't fit in the Payless ones, she's got my fat-up-top feet. Size 5 Wide. We got these (in white) for Easter (and thereafter church) and these (in white/pink) for everyday/play shoes (basically anywhere but inside at home that she might be walking that is not a dressy place.) The second pair was on sale for $30 and also they had a buy one, get one half off promotion, so the second pair was only $15. We did pay full price for the first pair, though. *wince* KPC was not too thrilled that I managed to spend $70 on shoes that will be outgrown in less than 3 months, probably, but what can I do? She's wanting to walk everywhere now and Stride Rite is really all that will fit the fat-top feet, at least that I've found.
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: That... and she'll probably start cutting the next two in about a week.
Seriously, though, I've found that the pain right before the teeth break through is usually the worst; they learn pretty quickly not to bite if you take away their food every time they do!
I haven't had a bite yet, but am dreading it a bit. I've heard to take it away once she starts, but I've been doing that when she gets rough, so maybe she just hasn't had the chance to?
I'm going to miss toothless baby grins! Luckily we had family portraits done right before they were gone!
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I was consistent with firmly taking it away from the first time she clamped her toothless gums down, but that didn't stop her going through a major biting phase at about 9-10 months (about the time she got teeth on bottom AND top and learned about pincer action...). After the first time she drew blood it took 1-2 weeks of very strict nursing rules (i.e. you bite me and I take it - and myself, when possible - away for an hour, not a minute) for her to learn. Now at 16 months she has only bitten me once or twice since then and never hard.
All of this is to say, I hope all of your children are faster learners than mine. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Sounds less like a slow learner, and more like a stubborn rules-tester.
I've got some of those too. They just find other ways to demonstrate this tendency post-weaning.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
She is also that. Surely she gets it from her father...
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Such a beautiful little smile, Mrs M!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lissande: She is also that. Surely she gets it from her father...
You keep telling yourself that. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Mrs. M - Camille and Leni are so beautiful - that smile is just precious! Let us know how the Weego works out. It looks like such a great idea.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Thanks! They're such smiley girls. It's so funny when they smile at the same time. The other day Camille smiled at Leni - it was beyond precious. They really love each other.
Lissande, ouch! I'm really dreading teething. Aerin didn't get teeth until well over a year, but who knows with the twins.
Tummy time is an utter failure at our house. Camille sobs until I can't stand it and pick her up (less than a minute). Leni just rolls herself onto her back. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
That sounds a lot like tummy time was for us. Usually after 1-2 minutes she was done. I can think of only 1 or 2 times when she was happy for more than 5 minutes. I hated making her miserable so I didn't do it often and was happy that she turned out fine. The funny thing is that she loves sleeping on her tummy and has ever since she could roll that direction.
I'm glad we haven't had too many issues with biting so far (hopefully I'm not jinxing myself since her top teeth will be in any day now). I always hate having to set her down and basically ignore her for a minute after she's bitten me. She wails like I've abandoned her and it just breaks my heart into a million tiny pieces.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I hear so often about babies who hate tummy time. Apparently my children were freaks; both loved it almost from day one.
Posted by luv2bfishin (Member # 12021) on :
Hi all! Grandpa here, and putting in my 2 cents on the rear facing discussion.
Some of you may have seen the blogs I posted last September 2008 regarding my grandson, Joel. He was 18 mos / 33lbs and front facing. Pretty big, sturdy boy huh? he was in the back seat, when in a front impact collision. Joel, in his FF car seat, broke his neck. The EMT's removed him ,car seat and all, and transported him.
My opinion is this: if you want your child to have a view....pray they're not staring at the ceiling of an intensive care unit for a month, wearing a halo, unable to move! They don't know what's best for them. YOU make the decision for them. If you want to increase their odds of severe injury in a crash by 5.32 times, then let them have their way, and turn them forward.
If you're worried about leg discomfort or a broken leg from rear facing, think about this. Broken leg or broken neck? You can choose.
The links on Joel's website show that ERF has far more benefits than FF. Take some time and READ THEM.
As Joel layed in the pediatric intensive care for 21 days, in a self induced coma so he wouldn't move after they fused his neck, I kept thinking about how he would come to my house and drive me crazy running around. And now he was still. Very still. Totally quiet.... lifeless. 21 days.....And I prayed every day that he would make it through this horrific accident, to come to my house and drive me crazy again.
Had his spinal card stretched just a 1/4 of an inch, he could have been dead!! or possibly totally paralyzed. Just a 1/4 of an inch between life and death. Think about it.
What kid's want, and what is best for them,are two very different things. These decisions remain to be determined by the parents. This isn't something you can get a second chance with.
On another note, the AAP NEWS realease did not say that AAP has changed their policy statement. Just that they acknowledge that RF to 2 yrs old is better. I emailed AAP after this statement was released in AAP News, and they responded that their (AAP) policy has not changed . If you'd like, you can email AAP to see for yourself.
Safe travels to you all.........
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Emma used to roll to her back, too. Bridey always loved tummy time. Maggie was okay with it-- as long as she took it on my lap!
Grandpa, I totally respect you and your story, and have interacted with you on car-seat.org before. But I need to let you know, your tone in your last post was not in line with what is the norm in our community here on Hatrack, especially in a support thread for parents with new babies.
We have a car seat question thread, where perhaps that tone would be more appropriate, but in this thread it was a little out of place.
Yes, the AAP has been recommending RF to the limits for years. But adding acknowledgement of how much safer it is until 2 is an important concrete step in the right direction. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
That may be the first completely altruistic public-service spam I've ever seen. Interesting.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Eliza turned 1 this week. I never thought I would be the mom who was sad my baby was growing up. It always felt like that was the point and what they were suppose to do. But now that it was my baby, I totally felt the twinge of sadness that she'll never be a baby again.
She had a great time at her party! She is almost walking on her own; talks up a storm and has all sorts of fun tricks she can do. She is visiting grandparents next week and then after that it is time to get rid of her last two bottle feedings and formula!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Duplo used to be so good at going to sleep without help. I would rock him or nurse him until he was drowsy, put him in his crib with a pacifier, and he would just go to sleep without crying. In fact, this was his preferred way of falling asleep. If I tried to be involved more than that (just because it's fun to rock a baby to sleep sometimes), he'd just get frustrated.
But one day he decided he didn't like the pacifier anymore. He wouldn't take it at all. After that, I cannot get him to sleep without nursing. Even then, I sometimes have trouble. And he's been waking up a lot at night. Since he doesn't know how to fall back to sleep alone anymore, he'll just cry and cry unless I step in (which I almost always do now). *sigh*
How do I get him feeling safe and comfy in his own bed without the pacifier?
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Ellie likes to pet her one of those blankies that has a stuffed animal on them and are really soft. It seems to help her fall asleep. She also does well with this turtle that plays music and has fish that swim in its tummy. She'll watch that until she falls asleep. The kids in my preschool class also did well with some back patting. Although that would involve you in there with Duplo so that might not be what you want.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
How old is he?
Both my kids needed different methods, so my first bid of general advice is that you know your own baby best and you'll have to experiment to see what works.
My second bit of general advice is that sleep training works best if you stick with it. When you stop and change course midway through, it's confusing and creates worse problems.
More specifically, the things I did:
With my son, I put him down drowsy but awake and went it every 3 minutes so long as he was awake, to rub his back and shush him. I played tag team with my husband. If he got hysterical I would pick him up until he calmed a bit, but I would not nurse him and I would continue to put him down awake. This took nearly 3 hours the first round. You continue to do this for every nap time and night waking. So round 2, middle of the night, I fed him, changed him (so he would be awake when I put him down), and put him down. Took 30 minutes. After a day or two, he would usually only fuss for a few minutes before going to sleep. I would not go in for fussing.
My daughter was not comforted at all by our presence in the room -- it made things much worse! The interesting thing about her is that she won't even nurse to sleep. Never have. So with her, I put her down when she was tired (always put them down at the first sign of being tired, never wait until they are too tired) and then I walked away for 15 minutes at a time. After 15 minutes, I would feed her again and put her back down. This worked for her, though it took much longer and was a struggle for many months.
I did straight CIO with both my babies at about 9 months to eliminate night wakings entirely. My first cried for 20 minutes and never woke up again. My daughter cried for hours for many nights and still occasionally wakes for a few minutes.
Good luck! Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
He's 10.5 months old.
I'm at a hard place because he's the kind to get totally hysterical the minute you put him in his crib and continue crying at the top of his lungs until he is picked up, whether or not I am in the room. The minute you pick him up, he's happy.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That's an age when a lot of stuff is changing in their awareness of the world.
I hate to say it but maybe he needs you there right now, at least until he gets through this phase.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
We've had lots of sleeping issues with Beanie (her best period was from 9-12 months and she's finally been doing better at night again in the last couple weeks). It is so hard to figure out how to help them sleep. One thing that we have that she really likes is the Fisher Price Seahorse. She loves music and the light is soft enough to be nice and not jarring. And I think it's just adorable (plus it was inexpensive - you can get them for $10-14 at places like Target or ToysRUs or Amazon). Good luck finding something that works for Duplo!
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
I hate to say it but maybe he needs you there right now, at least until he gets through this phase.
I've been kind of thinking the same thing. He does seem to be going through his separation-anxiety phase.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah. I'd let your knowledge of your baby and your instincts guide you on this one.
No matter what people say, staying with him for a few months is not going to cause him irreparable harm. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Well, let me just put another spin on this and ask:
1. How is he sleeping? 2. How are you sleeping?
If you are both ok with the current sleeping arrangements, then I don't see any harm in continuing the way you have been. If this is basically a few middle of the night cuddles that you are both enjoying, then that sounds great -- at least for now.
Personally, I couldn't survive it. I was becoming a bit of a terror for the interruptions in my sleep. Neither one of my children would have had any problems continuing to night wake for a few more months, but they might have needed a new mom.
On the other side of this, I've known babies whose sleep is so poor that they are in real need of some help. These babies are overtired, get cranky a lot....there's a book on sleep called "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" that puts it in perspective and if you haven't read it, I recommend checking it out of the library and at least skimming it a bit. It has a lot of good advice, including the bit about putting babies to bed when they are first getting tired as opposed to waiting until they are overtired.
It is my opinion that sooner or later, a child needs to learn to fall asleep without mommy, and that hysterical babies can become hysterical children. I have a friend who is working through problems with her 3-year-old right now. He refuses to nap and he is getting only about 9 hours of sleep overnight. He is frightened of not being near her and will not even accept quiet time on his own. If she tries to leave him, he gets so upset he throws up. I don't know all the details, but I have a feeling that this problem developed over time. I know she still rocks him to sleep.
Anyway, I didn't find that a little bit of hysterical crying hurt my second child. My first wasn't prone to hysterical crying. I don't think that meant he needed me less, I just think he wasn't as loud.
[ April 10, 2009, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Christine ]
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I've had four kids and had to go through the cry-it-out with each of them to a greater or lesser extent. With the first one we did it at about 9 months, but with each one the age got older and older because a) I didn't want the baby to keep the other children awake and b) with more children I got less opportunity to sleep, so I was reluctant to go through the days of crying. But eventually it had to be done with each one of them.
I started by cutting out the nursing at night and just rocking them when they woke up. When they were used to not feeding I could switch to not getting them out of bed. I wasn't very good at just letting them cry alone, so with more than one of them, instead of leaving the room and only coming back every ten minutes, I would actually sit on the floor next to the crib. Sometimes I would put my hand through the bars of the crib where I could rub their back, but I wouldn't get them out and I wouldn't feed them. They would cry and throw fits but I was there to know that they were okay. Sooner or later they would get tired and lay down and go to sleep. With some of them it took over an hour at first - but the time got shorter and after a couple days I could leave for a few minutes and then come back, and then after a few more days I could leave and they would fall asleep in ten minutes or so before I came back.
It's grueling, but eventually I got to the point with each one of them that I needed them to sleep through the night in their own bed, and I had to just go through with it. I had to really commit to it though. Can't start one day and then give up the next; they won't learn anything that way.
I really think at this age it's more for mom than for baby, but yeah, eventually every child has to sleep on their own. I've had friends who never knew when to make the switch and were still having their 7-year-olds come into their bed at night. I had one friend who said that the only night of uninterrupted sleep she got was when she went into the hospital to have her next child. <shudder> I'm too grumpy for that.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Jenna, I have trouble letting them cry alone too. I can definitely see myself using your method, though. That way I can be sure my baby knows I love him, that I'm not far away, but also that he needs to go to sleep without nursing. I also relate to the idea that my kids need a new mom. I cannot imagine never having a full night's sleep unless I was in the hospital. I never sleep through the night there anyway; the nurses wake me up for vitals every four hours.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: I cannot imagine never having a full night's sleep unless I was in the hospital. I never sleep through the night there anyway; the nurses wake me up for vitals every four hours.
Seriously? Were you high risk for something? I can’t imagine the hospital I gave birth at doing that. Not like I got a full night’s sleep anyway, since I was nursing a newborn, but they certainly never woke me up to check anything.
On the sleeping thing, I think that going to sleep on your own and sleeping through the night are developmental stages, just like eating solids and potty training. Kids do have to learn to sleep on their own. They also have to learn to eat with silverware and use the toilet for elimination. But, like potty training, they can be forced to do it before they’re developmentally ready and it takes a lot more work that way. John nightweaned with no tears just after his 2nd birthday and started sleeping through the night soon after. I understand that some parents might not want to/be able to do two years of night nursing, but IME the oft-repeated chestnut “do it now or it just gets harder” is not true. He was ready, and it was easy.
However, I occasionally crawled into bed with my parents if I woke up before they did until well into my teens. I hope my kids will too.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It's more aimed at co-sleepers who feel the need to "night wean" and get 7 hours of sleep a night, but I think it's worth a read by anyone for some of the ideas he puts forth. You don't have to agree with him but I think they are worth consideration.
I had one kid (Emma) who just plain had to cry it out. Had to. She still has a lot of anxieties at night time, she's a night-worrier, like me. As an infant if she didn't cry, whether in her crib or in my arms, she wouldn't sleep. She just needed that outlet.
Bridget always wanted her own space to sleep. Once she outgrew the bassinet she went down in her crib, no problems, and has ever since. She's 3 in a few weeks and actually still in the crib (though in a few weeks we'll be trying moving to a big bed, both her and Emma.)
Maggie has always slept with us and still is. She does have problems at night and nurses all the time while sleeping. So far it's not a problem but I can see doing the night-weaning in about half a year if she's still nursing at night to the extent where I'm getting this little sleep.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've actually read that article before.
Co-sleeping really changes the sleeping through the night dynamic quite a lot. For those who can do it, you can sleep through night nursing (or just barely wake up). Co-sleeping actually saved my life with my first baby because I was so exhausted and with Celeste we just started in bed together. (My parents freaked out that I was going to roll on her...why do I tell them these things?)
Anyway, while it lasted, co-sleeping allowed me to sleep through night time feedings and get some much needed sleep. But my babies were early crawlers (Drake before he was even 5 months old and Celeste right at 5 months) and when they were mobile, I did not feel comfortable having them in bed with me. I know others manage somehow, but I was terrified they would crawl out of bed and hurt themselves. In fact, Celeste did crawl out of bed and hurt herself (not permanently).
So at 5 months the babymoon was over and I had to go down the hall 2-3 times a night to take care of their needs. That's when the need (for me...I totally admit it was for me) to get them to sleep through the night manifested and I took steps to make it happen.
I do continue to bring Celeste into bed with me first thing in the morning to nurse and I did this with my son until he weaned at 17 months. On Saturday and Sunday mornings when my husband and I are feeling lazy, we'll have the whole family in there with us. It's kind of nice. I don't have any plans to stop in the foreseeable future and don't think it's a problem.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't use covers but I know some of you nursing mamas like covers. If you want one free, only pay shipping ($7.95), go to the "UdderCovers" website and put in code "onefree" for a free cover, no other purchase required. Last I checked they still had pink and baby blue in stock of the covers eligible for this promotion. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Seriously? Were you high risk for something? I can’t imagine the hospital I gave birth at doing that. Not like I got a full night’s sleep anyway, since I was nursing a newborn, but they certainly never woke me up to check anything.
After giving birth to Duplo, I had a slight fever for a few hours, so they continued to check it until my temperature had been normal for . . . 8 hours? I think so. And they checked Duplo regularly too because he was so big; I think they assumed there must be something wonky with his blood sugar. There wasn't. With Lego, neither of us was at risk at all, as far as I know, but I remember them waking me at night for something. This is the major reason why I only stayed one night at the hospital after I had Duplo.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I had each of my kids in different hospitals. At the first one, people came in and out all night long for the stupidest things. I nearly ripped the head off of some girl who looked young enough to be a volunteer when she came in at 4 a.m. to ask me if I wanted water. I was having trouble getting comfortable as it was on their miserable bed. The weird thing was, I complained of terrible back spasms that brought me back to the ER the day after I was released but they didn't seem to care about that.
So I went to a new hospital. There really are night and day differences between hospitals. I would say without hesitation that the hospital matters more than the doctor you pick to deliver. The second hospital had jacuzzi tubs and queen size beds. The nurses were fantastic, especially the one who was with me during labor (even if she was trying to convince me to go natural when I didn't want to). They came in at 11:00 and didn't come in again until 7:00 unless I rang the little bell. They also had actual knowledge of breastfeeding, though by that time I didn't need it. Would have been nice at the first hospital. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The hospital I delivered Emma at came in every 3 hours on the dot to do vitals and nag me to feed the baby (didn't need nagging; she ate every 1 1/2 hours!)
The hospital I've had the other two at only comes in during the night if you have a problem or are high-risk for complications (I lost a LOT of blood with Bridget, they were worried about my BP and checked it every 4 hours until it came back up. With Maggie, they didn't come in from 10 at night until 8 in the morning unless I called for something.)
I still had more than my fill of hospital between the three of them, and am going to ask to go home the same day if possible, or maybe after one night, next time.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I had one night after Toby, but my experience was like yours dkw - no checking through the night.
I know the nurses did come in, but I was asleep. Tony was awake (we had a private room, with a sofa bed he could stay on), and they left me my pain medication for when I woke up.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Wow, Christine. Queen beds and jacuzzi tubs? Now I want to move there and get pregnant again just so I can experience giving birth there.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I know! I don't want to have another baby and knew it when I had Celeste, but after that hospital stay I was tempted. Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I had a jacuzzi tub in the delivery room and used it during labor. It was lovely.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
They were in every hour after Aerin was born, but that was because of the whole nearly dying thing. They came about every 4 hours after I had the twins, which was fine b/c I was awake anyway. I think it's standard procedure for C-Sections.
I am very blessed to have good sleepers. Aerin slept through the night at 2 months in her crib and has ever since. I'm worried about transitioning her out of the crib, which I hope to do before she goes back to preschool in the fall. She has to come home for naptime now because she just won't lie down if she's not in her crib. We're going to try this summer.
The twins are pretty good sleepers. Right now we have an decent arrangement. They sleep somewhere (Pack N Play, bouncey, crib, or bassinet - depending on the night) until about 4 a.m. Then we all just fall back to sleep together until it's time to get up for the day - them on the nursing pillow with me on the sofa or loveseat. It's not ideal, but it's not forever. All the moms in my twin group agree that twins sleep better than singletons because they have each other. My girls have never slept apart and I'm not separating them until they ask me to.
Swaddling makes a HUGE difference - the twins love it and Aerin did, too. I keep music or white noise on all night and I keep the room pitch black - no night lights at all. We make sure the half hour before bedtime is very calm - no t.v. or roughhousing, etc. We've always had a very consistent routine and I think that's key. Everyone has to figure out what works for them, but these things have worked really well for me.
kq - thanks for the code! I got mine in pink. I have a Hooter Hider, but I can always use an extra. Actually, I have to use a receiving blanket in addition to the cover when I'm nursing both of them at once. We have our first out-of-town trip in 2 weeks and the new cover will come in very handy.
More video of the twins: here and here. Camille is on the left and Leni is on the right. They're 3 months old today.
I always try to watch my accent because someone once told me that I sound like a redneck on video, so now I am super self-conscious. I know I sound silly cooing at the babies, but that doesn't bother me for some reason.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Ugh - I've not been having much fun this weekend. Beanie is sick (for the second time in her life). I took her in on Friday (after a couple days of fever on and off that spiked to 101.6 and scared me) and she had some sort of throat infection. She hated the exam so much we decided not to torture her with a throat culture and go ahead with antibiotics. She seems to be feeling a lot better after a couple days of antibiotics and ibuprofen, but her waking up 5-10 times at night has been hard on me. To add to the misery of a sick child, I seem to have pinched my sciatic nerve (just before it branches, so both legs hurt too) in my sleep Friday night and I'm only semi-functional. And to add to the pity party our water heater died sometime yesterday. Not wanting to pay up the wazoo for a plumber on a holiday we're holding off until tomorrow, but having to boil water if we want it hot gets old fast. At least Beanie loved her tiny Easter egg hunt in the living room (with 4 plastic eggs and 4 little stuffed animals hid conspicuously). /pity party
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
After a VERY long day talking to doctors and lab techs and basically doing all the same stupid stuff we did three weeks ago, Duplo finally was referred out of the student health center to a pediatrician in town.
The doctor looked in his ears and, like the other doctors, found lots of wax there. So (drumroll, please), he cleaned it out and found that his eardrums were a little pink and didn't "wiggle like they should." He thought Duplo had a moderate ear infection and prescribed amoxicillin.
I was a little dubious because several doctors at the aforementioned student health center had mentioned that his ears looked a little pink over the past few months and done nothing about it. But I figured that since nothing else seemed to be helping, and he did seem miserable, I'd try the antibiotics.
Two days into the round of amoxicillin, he's sleeping longer periods at night. He's falling asleep on his own again. He's always been a happy baby, but now he's almost too happy, if you know what I mean.
Months I've been living with a baby who had suddenly stopped sleeping well. I wonder now if he's had a little ear infection all this time. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I'm sorry your little guy had to suffer but glad he's feeling better now. It seems like the most obvious thing in the world to diagnose, but I've heard of other people having trouble getting their kids' ear infections properly diagnosed. Finding the right pediatrician is huge.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Yeah. Unfortunately, because my husband is in school, our hands are somewhat tied. We have to use the student health center unless referred outside it.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
First steps!!!!
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Congrats, Brinestone! That's got to feel so great! I'm sure that working on the ear infections helped Duplo get his balance so he could get those first steps in. It's so exciting to get to this stage!
As it is, we're looking at possibly having first steps in the next month or so-baby c is letting go of the furniture and 'testing' standing. We're already cruising furniture at an alarming rate and trying to (unsuccessfully) climb up on things.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Congratulations!
Maggie figured out running today-- on the bed. She ran right off the edge! (Luckily she landed in a pile of laundry...) She copies EVERYTHING the rest of us do. She was trying to help build the older girls' beds the other day and was correctly matching pieces by shape and color! (Emma and Bridey have been sleeping in their beds, in their room, for a few days now, btw. ) My mom says we should blindfold her for a few days so we can get a little rest from her picking up new skills, words, and tricks.
I can't believe Maggie will be one on Friday. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I have a new nephew.
And a new nephew.
And a new niece.
Not triplets -- three SILs, three babies. In one week.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
WOW!!! Congratulations to them, and you! (I thought triplets at first, lol!)
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Holy cow. I bet they'll be close. It's fun to have cousins your age.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by BelladonnaOrchid: Congrats, Brinestone! That's got to feel so great! I'm sure that working on the ear infections helped Duplo get his balance so he could get those first steps in. It's so exciting to get to this stage!
As it is, we're looking at possibly having first steps in the next month or so-baby c is letting go of the furniture and 'testing' standing. We're already cruising furniture at an alarming rate and trying to (unsuccessfully) climb up on things.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I've given up trying to predict when Celeste would walk. She was crawling at 5 months so I figured she'd be an early walker, like my son. At 7, 8 months she was cruising like a pro, so right on target. At 9 months, she was able to stand alone if she didn't notice she was doing it. At 10 months, she started doing it on purpose. Now, at 11 months, we're still waiting...she did a sort of sideways shuffle while standing the other day, but I'm not holding my breath. She'll walk when she's ready and in the meantime, she gets into plenty of trouble on her knees!
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I have a new nephew.
And a new nephew.
And a new niece.
Not triplets -- three SILs, three babies. In one week.
Wow, that may be stranger than actual triplet! Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I thought my family's string of three girls in six months was good. One week shows true planning and dedication. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
COngrats, Rivka!
Christine, my sister babysits for a little boy who is just barely at the taking a step and falling down stage and he is 18 months old. To be fair, my sister hasn't been sitting for him very long and he has made a lot of progress since she's had him.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: Holy cow. I bet they'll be close. It's fun to have cousins your age.
The two boys will be -- they're relatively near each other, in Israel. But their cousin is in Ohio.
There's actually another new cousin. One of my SILs has a new nephew (I think it was a boy!) this week too. Not related to me, exactly. But close enough.
quote:Originally posted by Lissande: I thought my family's string of three girls in six months was good. One week shows true planning and dedication.
Heh. The due dates were actually farther apart. But this is how it all worked out. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I can't believe my baby is one. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Happy birthday!
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I've given up trying to predict when Celeste would walk. She was crawling at 5 months so I figured she'd be an early walker, like my son. At 7, 8 months she was cruising like a pro, so right on target. At 9 months, she was able to stand alone if she didn't notice she was doing it. At 10 months, she started doing it on purpose. Now, at 11 months, we're still waiting...
This is us almost exactly. Crawling at 5-6 months, pulling to stand and cruising at 7-8 months, and standing alone for a few seconds at 10-11 months. He took his first unassisted steps at 12 months, but they were basically a fluke. James is now almost 15 months old, and crawling is still his primary mode of transportation. He takes a few steps at a time, but mostly only at home. Walking must not seem like an improvement to him from crawling. He's probably all, "Hey! I don't fall down when I crawl!" He's making progress, but it's very sloooooow progress.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Celeste turned 1 yesterday.
At the party, people kept saying they couldn't believe she was a year old already. After a while, I said, "Am I the only one who can believe it?" I mean, it's been about a year...time is still passing at approximately the normal rate for me. I don't know, it's a common sentiment and it seemed like the sort of thing I was supposed to agree with, but I just don't. She's exactly as old as she's supposed to be and I'm happy for the steady, gradual progress she makes.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Other people's kids always grow much faster than your own. I'm sure this is documented somewhere or other.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't know, the older my kids get the faster time seems to pass for me. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Christine, time flies when it's someone else's life. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I actually agree with you too, ketchupqueen, but what I was getting at is what rivka said. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Yeah, I guess it would seem fast if I only saw a baby once a month or so.
On a different note....and possibly not belonging in this thread but I'm going crazy here and I would love some parenting advice for my 3_1/2-year-old.
Not that I have a lot of experience since he's my first, but Drake seems like a bit of an odd child. He's in pre-school on an IEP for speech delays, which seems to be helping. Six months ago, when he turned 3, he was speaking rarely and in mostly one or two word sentences. Now he's speaking far more often and in 4-5 word sentences. So communication is getting better, but he's still 3.
We've been basically trying the "Love and Logic" approach with our kids. It's hard to do all the time, but we don't spank, we aim for natural or logical consequences, and we give choices. The trouble is, more often than not when I give my son a choice his answer is, "No, don't want it."
He gets in these patterns of unstoppable no's that I can't fathom. You could ask him if he wants ice cream or a million dollars (and we have) and he'll just keep saying no. I really don't think he's listening.
But it's getting worse than that...and this is the part where I'm going to struggle to bring in as many relevant details as possible...he's moody, he's often tired though he sleeps plenty, he does not transition from activity to activity very well at all, he's obsessively clean and quiet. And I mean it's really weird. He gets very upset if he drops a bit of food on the table and freaks out if he drops it on himself. He can't stand any noise and is always asking, "What's that noise?" even about things that aren't making a lot of noise or that he hears all the time, like the dishwasher. He's frankly rude to me and asks me to stop talking and especially to stop singing. I know I don't have the best singing voice in the world but I really don't think that's the issue. It seems to upset him more than that.
Meals are awful. I've been extremely consistent with meals from day one because I was determined not to have a picky eater. I say when, where, and what. He says how much. i don't force him to eat (I tried that for the space of a month or two about a year ago at the urging of a friend who makes her kids take a bite per year of age but that blew up in my face.) I do make him come to the table, though. This makes him so upset. "Don't want it." (repeating several times) or "Can't like it." (repeat). He doesn't eat much. I think he'd be perfectly happy not to eat at all some days which is his choice but what I can't understand is why he's still giving me such a hard time about coming to the table, even before he knows what's for dinner. I could be serving ice cream for dinner and he'd never know it because he's too busy throwing a fit.
When he does come to the table, he sits there and mopes until we're just about done eating, and then he decides to start eating. This is particularly a problem at breakfast time because there isn't much time before he has to get on the bus for school. This morning (and many other mornings) I had to pull him away from the table in the middle of eating because the bus had come.
He also likes to be by himself a lot. Even on Sunday, when we had some friends over for Celeste's birthday, he played with them for a little while then went up to his room to play alone.
He's not a bad kid or anything. He can be a sweetheart, but I just don't get what's going on in his head sometimes. And he wants to cuddle so much lately. That's the only one I do understand...he absolutely hates the attention his little sister is getting even though I don't think she gets all that much attention.
Wow, this has gone on for a while. Sorry for the novel. I guess I just needed to vent. I've got to figure out some new strategy here because what I'm doing isn't working. I'm just not sure if he needs more discipline (like taking away toys or something) or if there's something I'm not understanding about his personality. I know this is normally something a person gets much later, but sometimes I swear he's got an early form of OCD...the mess, the noise, the hand washing. Or maybe this is jsut him being 3.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The noise and food bits make me think sensory issues. Have you seen the book The Highly Sensitive Child? It's got a checklist that might help you figure out what's going on.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I've heard of that book before, but from someone whose child had pretty different symptoms so it didn't register. (Her daughter didn't seem to register pain in normal ways.) I just asked my husband to grab a copy from the library so I can take a look tonight. THanks.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
And now that the nursling is asleep and I'm not typing one-handed, here are a few other thoughts.
First, I've seen Love & Logic presented and implemented several different ways, so this might not be relevant to you, but don't expect a 3 year old to respond logically. You can still be logical and consistant, but don't expect him to be. His brain isn't capable of that yet, and it isn't something you can discipline into him. (In the short term, I mean. In the long term, consistency in discipline will pay off.)
Second, we've had some luck using the contrariness to our advantage with choices. Example: "Would you like to walk to the changing table or be carried?" "I don't want my diaper changed." "Okay, carried." "No! I wanna walk!" or "Do you want to wear the tiger shirt or the dinosaur shirt? -no answer- "Okay, the dinosaur shirt." "No! No! I want the tiger shirt!!!" It doesn't always work, but we've avoided several melt-downs that way.
The speech delay must be very frustrating for your little guy. Two and three year olds have such strong opinions about how things should be, not being able to express them would be tough. Tough for you and your husband too, of course. *hugs*
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
dkw- that is totally my 2 year old (the which shirt do you want? No shirt, fine this one, no I want the blue one!!). Mine also gets mad when I sing to her.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
My own little one is only 13 months but before I had her, I worked as a teacher in a 2-3 classroom. We used the consicious discipline approach which is similar to love and logic. I found the natural consequences worked well. I don't have a ton of training working with special needs children but what you are describing sounds a bit like a sensory perception issue which seemed common in the preschool age.
I did have some suggestions on the behavior and food issues. On choices, it was really common for the kids to get a case of the no's. Our remedy to this was to offer the choice, would you like milk or water. Then if I got neither or no answer I would offer again Would you like milk or water and add if you decide not to chose thats ok. I would be happy to chose for you. All while being pleasant. If still no choice is given, I would say I see you decided you didn't want to chose today. I'll get you some water. If after I poured the water I got but I wanted milk. I would say. I'm sorry you wanted milk. I didn't know because you didn't tell me. So now we are having water. If next time you want milk, you should tell me. Any additional wailing complaining was met with a calm. Perhaps next time you can make a different choice. In general the kids started to make their choices clear if they knew that we would stick with our choices after they refused to pick.
One of the things conscious discipine does is a safe or quiet spot. It is different than time out in that there is no enforced time on the spot and it isn't there to act like a punishment but to give kids the time to find their composure and communicate. For example, if you want to go to the store and your child refuses to put on his shoes and a showdown with tears ect is occuring. You would say I see you are having a hard time getting ready to go to the store and get your shoes on. Is there anything I can do to help you? If the child is still having a hard time. Tell them perhaps they need to sit in the quiet/safe spot. Equip this spot so that the child has things that can help him calm down such as a favorite blanket, or squeezy stress ball. After the crying is a bit less hysterical you can go to the child and talk about the problem. This worked wonders with a lot of kids. I will say for some kids it did not work at all and only escalated the problem. You have to figure out what works for what kid. It sounds like your son though might do well having a safe quiet space to go to work out frustrations.
Another suggestion I have for dealing with the dinner table frustrations is using a five minute warning. Before a meal or activity is through, give a five minute warning. Say you have five minutes left and then we are going to clean up and read a story. Then when there is one minute left you can give a one minute reminder. Then when the time is done the activity ends. Any complaining is met with, I gave you the five minute warning, now it is time to be done. It can also help if you let the child give the five minute warning. This is especialy disarming if you remind them that they have already given the five minute warning. Specifically with food, we would occasionally let five minutes become longer without letting the kids in on it if the five minute warning seemed to inspire eating. If this is the case for you consider giving a longer ten minute warning before the five minute warning to see if you can get more eating in. We did what you are doing in regards to you don't have to eat but you do have to sit at the table. Unless there is a nutritional problem, kids usually can be pretty good self regulators of what they eat as long as they are offered healthy options. One other word on the five minute warning. It also helps to place clocks or timers around. This takes some of the childs blame off of you. Say I'm sorry you don't want to be done playing with playdoh but the timer/clock says its nap time or lunch time. We can make a plan to play again later. It is much harder for a chid to argue with a clock than a person.
Kids this age can really get frustrated easily. One of the things I have noticed with some parents is that they tend to see things from their own perspective and not see how it really is frustrating for the child that they can't wear the dino shirt for the 10th day in a row. I really tried to be sympthetic without being a pushover. Be on their side. I know you wanted to wear the dino shirt and I wish you could but its dirty. Maybe you can make a plan to wear it tomorrow after it is washed. Goes over much better than you wore that shirt ten times already you are not wearing it again!
Sorry this turned into a novel. I hope something helps. Preschool can be a tough age even without a child with speech issues.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I want to stress at the outset that I am not a professional. That being said, it sounds to me, Christine, that your son might be somewhere on the autism spectrum. These are the things that made me think that:
quote:...he does not transition from activity to activity very well at all, he's obsessively clean and quiet. And I mean it's really weird. He gets very upset if he drops a bit of food on the table and freaks out if he drops it on himself. He can't stand any noise and is always asking, "What's that noise?" even about things that aren't making a lot of noise or that he hears all the time, like the dishwasher. He's frankly rude to me and asks me to stop talking and especially to stop singing. I know I don't have the best singing voice in the world but I really don't think that's the issue. It seems to upset him more than that.
He also likes to be by himself a lot.
These are all very typical behaviors for children on the spectrum. You mentioned that he has an IEP for speech delays, so I'm assuming that he's been evaluated. I would get him evaluated again, either by the county or privately (or both). He's obviously very, very high-functioning if he is on the spectrum, but this does sound to me like more than just speech delays and toddlerhood.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
theresa51282: I don't mind the novel. The five-minute warning is definitely something I should do, and I like the idea of a quiet spot. Time out is absolutely useless for him. He won't come out, actually.
Mrs. M: That's not the first time someone has brought up that possibility and the biggest reason I am resisting is because he socializes fine...at school he's got a couple of friends and the teachers say they play together well. He does like to go up to his room when he comes home, though. When other kids are here, he does great for an hour or so, then he wants some time alone.
I actually wouldn't mind getting him fully evaluated by someone, but I'm not sure who. I tried to do this back in January through a local Children's Hospital but they ended up basically doing another speech evaluation which we didn't need. I must not have asked for the right thing. The trouble is that when you call looking for a screening, they want to know what's wrong, and if I knew what was wrong I wouldn't need the screening. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
quote:the biggest reason I am resisting is because he socializes fine...at school he's got a couple of friends and the teachers say they play together well.
This is a huge misconception about ASD (autism spectrum disorder). Many kids with ASD are friendly, happy, social kids. The director of our county won't give Aerin an autism diagnosis because she's happy, social, makes appropriate eye contact, responds to her name, etc. We've gotten the ASD diagnosis from the Kluge Center at UVA, though, and we pretty much agree with it.
I like ASD as a classification, rather than autism, because every single child diagnosed with autism is vastly different.
It's so hard getting the proper diagnosis for young children. We actually have 4 diagnoses for Aerin and have recently had a 5th suggested to us. We don't care about the diagnosis, but we care about getting the proper services for Aerin. We're extremely happy with what we're getting through the county and we're starting private consulting with a new program this summer.
I would tell the testers that you think your son might have developmental delays. That will get you seen, but it's vague enough not to influence them. The only reason I would pursue a diagnosis is to get you on the path to receiving services that will help your son.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I think Celeste is trying to wean. She refused to nurse before bed last night and before her nap today. Since her first birthday, or more specifically since I started offering her whole milk, she's gone from 6-7 times a day to 3-4...in the space or 3 weeks! I really didn't expect this, even though I knew she was never as attached to nursing as my son was...she's too antsy, but still. I'm tempted to stop giving her cow's milk but she really likes it. I think to her nursing was always more about food than comfort and now that she sees an alternative she's all over it. I was perfectly prepared to nurse her for 2 years and really expected to go at least 18 months. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Hopefully you can develop other ways to bond with her (providing the comfort you both need) if she's weaning herself.
I'm kind of torn about weaning myself. I really want for Beanie to wean herself when she's ready, and I'm still prepared to keep nursing her until he's at least 2 (she's almost 18 months now), but there is a little part of me that's tired of nursing (and I feel guilty about that). She's nursing probably about 6 times a day still (usually for comfort) and sometimes it just wears on me and I feel horrible for sometimes not wanting to nurse her.
Anyone have any suggestions for encouraging her to eat things from utensils? For the last 3-4 months she's insisted on eating everything with her fingers, which usually works fine (cleaning her off after pasta and tomato sauce is the most obnoxious), but she screams bloody murder and cries if I offer her something from a spoon or fork, even if it's something that she likes. Should I just forget about utensils or should I keep trying?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Celeste doesn't use utensils either, but she manages to get plenty of food in her. I offer, and she'll kind of play with it, but she's just not ready yet. It kind of surprised me, because my son was using a spoon by 11 months. I figure if she's eating, though, there's no reason to push. She sees us using a spoon/fork and will want to do that when she's ready.
I weaned my son at 17 months, mostly just because I didn't want to anymore (also because I wanted to get pregnant again). Sometimes I feel guilty about that but other times I think, Why? Nursing is good for as long as both mom and baby are into it. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Should I just forget about utensils or should I keep trying?
At that age, I'd definitely drop it for a while. Whenever possible, avoid power struggles over food. And 2 or even 3 is plenty old enough to learn to use utensils.
Does she drink from a cup, sipper or otherwise?
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yeah I try really hard not to struggle with her over food, which of course means that some days all she eats is Cheerios, but her food tastes are pretty varied so I'm not worried about her not getting a balanced diet. I just can't figure out how to get her to eat things like yogurt or applesauce (that she loved when she was in the spoon phase). Maybe I should make popsicles out of them?
She's been drinking from a straw cup for quite a while now (since she was maybe 10 months old or so) and will drink from a regular cup when I hold it for her (she's learning how to help hold it, but she's not quite ready to wield it on her own). She loves getting to have a drink of whatever I have in my cup (milk, juice, smoothie, etc.), even when she doesn't want to drink the same thing from her cup.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Yeah I try really hard not to struggle with her over food, which of course means that some days all she eats is Cheerios, but her food tastes are pretty varied so I'm not worried about her not getting a balanced diet. I just can't figure out how to get her to eat things like yogurt or applesauce (that she loved when she was in the spoon phase). Maybe I should make popsicles out of them?
As far as things that require spoons like yogurt and oatmeal -- I'm sure she'll come around. Celeste fists that stuff. Talk about a mes!
Here's my philosophy: I do not make any attempt to get my kids to eat any specific food. I say when, where, and what -- the kids say how much. At each full meal, I pick foods from at least 4 of the 5 food groups, including 1 food that is a "safe" food (something they are likely to want to eat). Then I put it all in front of them and let them eat, or not eat, as they see fit. No substitutions.
My son actually manages to be a fussy easter despite this. I've been calling him picky but I realized recently that's not true -- he really just doesn't like food much at all. Weird. Especially since he came out of my DNA. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: Yeah I try really hard not to struggle with her over food, which of course means that some days all she eats is Cheerios, but her food tastes are pretty varied so I'm not worried about her not getting a balanced diet. I just can't figure out how to get her to eat things like yogurt or applesauce (that she loved when she was in the spoon phase). Maybe I should make popsicles out of them?
She's been drinking from a straw cup for quite a while now (since she was maybe 10 months old or so) and will drink from a regular cup when I hold it for her (she's learning how to help hold it, but she's not quite ready to wield it on her own). She loves getting to have a drink of whatever I have in my cup (milk, juice, smoothie, etc.), even when she doesn't want to drink the same thing from her cup.
Mini-popsicles sound like a great idea. I recommend using an ice cube tray. And if she will take milk from a cup regularly, she may reduce the times per day she wants to nurse. IME, that can help with the I-want-to-nurse-her-but-I'm-so-tired-of-this feeling.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Here's my philosophy: I do not make any attempt to get my kids to eat any specific food. I say when, where, and what -- the kids say how much. At each full meal, I pick foods from at least 4 of the 5 food groups, including 1 food that is a "safe" food (something they are likely to want to eat). Then I put it all in front of them and let them eat, or not eat, as they see fit. No substitutions.
Good plan. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Maggie has decided I'm her favorite teething toy. I discourage her in this when she's awake, but now she's taken to doing it while asleep.
Ouch. 'Nuff said.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I've been meaning to buy some Dan Zanes for a while and this seems a good place to start! I'm listening to it now, it's great. Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Ellie finally took three steps today. She repeated this feat about 7 times. I am so thrilled and proud. Even though I didn't admit it, I was getting nervous that she wasn't walking yet. She'll be 15 months next week. In other positive news, her pedi says she is way ahead in her verbal abilities. She is up to around 50 words and says 2-3 word phrases. I am so proud of my little one.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Nathaniel finally started walking at 16.5 months and really got good at it about two weeks later (17 months).
Life has changed quite a bit since then.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Nathaniel finally started walking .
Life has changed quite a bit since then.
QFT
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
quote:Originally posted by theresa51282: Ellie finally took three steps today. She is up to around 50 words and says 2-3 word phrases.
Yay! You now have what my mom calls a "walkie talkie". Her verbal skills sound fabulous! I'm a little jealous.
Beanie has great motor skills (she started walking at 12 months and pretty much runs now at 18), but doesn't seem to feel like talking. She says mama, dada, uhoh, and hi regularly. She'll occasionally say buba (bubbles), byebye, peas (please), and bo (one of our cats) and she babbles quite a bit. I know her hearing and comprehension is fine, because she follows instructions really well. She does some signing (she uses "more" a lot) and a lot of gesturing, so usually we can understand each other without much of a problem. I'm thinking it's more likely that she doesn't want to talk than that there's some sort of problem. I hope...
[Edit] She's still stuck in finger food mode, but at least she is pretty adventurous in her eating (she really likes mushrooms, black olives, and roasted garlic triscut). She's drinking more milk now too, which is nice (still only about 1/2 a cup on a good day, but it's better than nothing).
[ June 25, 2009, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti:
quote:Originally posted by theresa51282: Ellie finally took three steps today. She is up to around 50 words and says 2-3 word phrases.
Yay! You now have what my mom calls a "walkie talkie". Her verbal skills sound fabulous! I'm a little jealous.
Beanie has great motor skills (she started walking at 12 months and pretty much runs now at 18), but doesn't seem to feel like talking. She says mama, dada, uhoh, and hi regularly. She'll occasionally say buba (bubbles), byebye, peas (please), and bo (one of our cats) and she babbles quite a bit. I know her hearing and comprehension is fine, because she follows instructions really well. She does some signing (she uses "more" a lot) and a lot of gesturing, so usually we can understand each other without much of a problem. I'm thinking it's more likely that she doesn't want to talk than that there's some sort of problem. I hope...
[Edit] She's still stuck in finger food mode, but at least she is pretty adventurous in her eating (she really likes mushrooms, black olives, and roasted garlic triscut). She's drinking more milk now too, which is nice (still only about 1/2 a cup on a good day, but it's better than nothing).
There is such a huge range of verbal skills at this age so they really only focus on receptive language at this point. If they're understanding, they're ok, and they'll get the rest on their own schedule. I understand 18 - 24 months is a typical time for a language explosion, which is another reason you won't often find people in a rush to diagnose a speech problem until closer to 2.
I'm pretty thrilled with my daughter's babbling and repetition attempts right now (13 months). It's better than my son was doing at this age. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
One of my brothers didn't start talking until he was three. Why should he -- he was understood perfectly well without doing so!
He's still the least talkative of my sibs. And the most profound when he does speak. Mayne Beanie is a deep thinker!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: There is such a huge range of verbal skills at this age so they really only focus on receptive language at this point. If they're understanding, they're ok, and they'll get the rest on their own schedule. I understand 18 - 24 months is a typical time for a language explosion, which is another reason you won't often find people in a rush to diagnose a speech problem until closer to 2. [/QB]
That's neat to know about the 18-24 month language explosion. It's so fascinating to observe first-hand how humans develop and it's not surprising that there is a large range of "normal". It really is fun how well she understands us and the world around her. It's so fun to have her do simple tasks for me - put the sock in the drawer (in the other room), get your shoes (and she'll get a matching pair), put your book away, etc. She knows that drawers and doors are supposed to be kept close and will close any she finds that are open (even if I'm trying to get things out).
quote:Originally posted by rivka: One of my brothers didn't start talking until he was three. Why should he -- he was understood perfectly well without doing so!
He's still the least talkative of my sibs. And the most profound when he does speak. Mayne Beanie is a deep thinker!
That's like what my mom says "She can be understood fine without talking, so maybe she doesn't feel the need to talk". She's a very happy and content person, so I can understand her being content with her communication as it is. I just love hearing her little voice - it's so cute! Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
ludosti- mine didn't talk much until like 27 months. And then she exploded and talks more then all the other kids her age. Huge vocab, good sentence structure and like 7-8 words in her sentences. We are constantly amazed because she went from nothing to everything almost over night. She babbled non stop up until then. Of course, the fact that her male cousin is 8 months younger and said more than her made it that much worse. He mimics people- you say "say X" and he'll say it. No clue what it means, but he'll say it. Bin on the other hand will never say a word just because you asked her to. When she says a word, she has processed it into her vocab and it has meaning.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
You definetly shouldn't worry about verbal skills based on Ellie. She is ahead of the curve in that department. Her dr. only looks for a few words, babbling,a dn some comprehension at 18 months. I think some kids just focus more on different things. I am convinced that her gross motor skills are a bit behind mostly because it is just not what interests her. She would rather be reading a book with me or talking to me about all the things she sees. I can relate though to the comparisons and worries. I was stressed about the lack of walking and dreading telling her dr. that she still wasn't walking at her 15 month appointment. She still hasn't walked excatly but at least she is taking steps.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by theresa51282: I think some kids just focus more on different things.
I think this is very true and important for parents to keep in mind.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
That is so true! It is so interesting how different kids are even when very young. I was watching a friend's kids today (one is the same age as Beanie) and was really struck by how totally different they were (though they agreed that one of them crying required that the other one to cry too). It also made me very glad I didn't have twins. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
So just after her first birthday, Celeste dropped 2 nursing sessions in a week and this past week, she dropped 2 more. We're down to 2 (or at least have been for the last 2 days) -- first thing in the morning and after nap. She dropped before nap and before bed. If I try to nurse her then she'll twist her body and head away. I'm so sad. I am not ready for her to be done. I'd mentally prepared myself to nurse her for up to 2 years, which I often wish I'd done with my son (I weaned him at 17 months). But now she's acting as though she's done. I suppose if she is I should just respect that but it is making me unbelievably sad. Among other things, she will be my last baby so this is it.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
It is so hard watching them grow up so fast! The great part is that every day we get to see all the new things they are learning and the people they are growing into.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
So we are down to 1 bottle (evening) a day. Everything else is in sippies now (Nathaniel is 14.5 months).
He walks, runs, can walk backward, and can spin around, which was cute today when he did it while dancing, and fell down dizzy (he was walking at 10.5 months, it was clearly his main mission after birth). He's not great at climbing yet, despite his size (he's around 34", but can't manage to get up on the couch yet). This probably because we don't have stairs in our apartment.
He's also talking a little now! He still uses 'mama" and "ba" for multiple things, of course. He says "boof!" whenever a doglike animal is around, and he's been working on his F's so he can say fan. He sometimes says "bur" for bird. He started saying "ap-uh" for apple today, but it may be a transient thing, since he was good at telling us what a sheep says (elongated "baaa") until recently, and now he won't tell us
His comprehension has jumped even in the last month though. He can point out to you (with varying rates of success) where is ears, nose, mouth, hands, tummy, and feet are.
This age makes the first 6 months or so totally worth it
-Bok
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I've also noticed in the last few weeks he is much more interested in looking at books/having us read them. He's been such a kinetic baby that he'd never sit still for a book longer than 10 seconds, but now he brings them over to us, an flips the pages while we read and point things out to him.
-Bok
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I'm having a problem, and I need some help!!
A couple of weeks ago, my daughter bit me while I was trying to nurse her. I don't remember the circumstances at the time, but typically she doesn't bite me anymore. When she did, I would stop her from nursing and tell her she must not want to nurse. She would usually cry for the nipple again either right away or after a few minutes and when I would relent, she would eat without biting. So, I thought we were past the biting stage, but for some reason she bit me and bit me good. I think it was just an accident. After that, it started to hurt to nurse from that breast. I noticed a bright red dot on the end of the nipple once and then two at another time, which I thought might be scabs, so I figured she drew blood.
There are no more spots anymore. Now when she starts to nurse it hurts initially and then she establishes her latch and it doesn't hurt while she's eating--much. Afterwards, though, it has been aching and hurting a lot on and off.
She's 16 months, but is still nursing a lot, because she was pretty much exclusively breast feeding for the first 12 months (I did introduce solid foods). I am increasing her solid food intake as much as I can, but she'll eat a small amount and then basically just pick at it, throwing some on the floor and then randomly eat some.
My husband says that I nursed her for longer than most moms, so the rest is just gravy, so if it is hurting me, maybe it's time to wean her. But I don't want to stop nursing her. It is one of my favorite things. I love nursing. There really is a special bond that I feel with my baby when I nurse her and I want to make it at *least* two years. Ideally, I'd like to continue to nurse her until 3 or 4, like at nighttimes.
But I feel like whatever injury I have from her bite is not getting a chance to heal because I can't stop nursing long enough for it to heal. I guess it is getting better. It didn't hurt nearly as long this last time, but then she didn't nurse quite as long either.
So my question is... is there something I can do to stop the pain and keep nursing? (As far as I'm concerned, I will put up with it forever, although it is quite painful.)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
John bit me once hard enough that my nipple had internal bleeding -- it bled when he nursed for the next day or so. I think I nursed him less often on that side for about 24 hours -- maybe twice in a row on the other side for every once on the side he bit. It healed just fine.
It didn't hurt for as long as you describe, though, so my experience may not be helpful.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
I had a hard time when I started nursing with pain and bleeding. I would ice my nipples before I let her latch on and that helped a lot. I know that lactation consultants say that is a big no-no because it decreases flow and stuff, but that was not a problem for me.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
You could try not nursing much from that side for a day. If the pump doesn't hurt, you could even try not nursing at all from that side and just pump it to keep from getting engorged.
You could also try applying heat. For most sore/damaged nipples, cold is a bad idea.
I don't blame you for not wanting to stop yet. I don't see nursing past a year as gravy just because most women don't do it. They have nothing to do with it...just me and the baby. (Who, btw, suddenly decided to nurse 5 times today....maybe she just can't make up her mind what she wants!)
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
It wasn't as painful today. I discovered that if I let her nurse while I'm on my back (her favorite position) it allows her to turn her head back and forth and to pull off while stretching the nipple (ow!), so if it's starting to hurt, I'll lay on my side and let her eat that way. I think it's healing.
I wonder, do babies still get our immunities when we continue to nurse past 6 months? I heard somewhere that our immunities are passed on in the first 6 months, and I was wondering if that's because of the way our bodies work or because they don't expect women to continue nursing past 6 months.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I think it has more to do with the fact that by about 6 months, the baby's immune system has become more functional.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
No, it is not at all true. As long as a baby nurses, he continues to get the benefits of mom's immune system. Now, a lot has been accomplished in the first few months of life, but anytime we get hit with something new our bodies will learn to fight it and then, in turn, help our nursing babies to fight it. It takes at least 2 and as many as 7 years for a child's immune system to mature and until that time nursing is a wonderful benefit to them in terms of health and wellness, not to mention nutrition and bonding. Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Toby has his first tooth.
He hasn't bit me yet though.
He has developed a very irritating habit of pinching when he's nursing though - particularly for his first feed when I nurse him lying down in bed, and I'm topless. He goes for the nipple he's not latched onto. Ouch!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Babies still get their mother's antibodies as long as they nurse. Usually after a year, breastmilk is no longer their main source of nourishment, but it is still, but like Christine said, one of the main reasons for extended nursing is the antibodies (along with the bonding experience).
Hopefully the change of nursing position will give your nipple a chance to heal!
Ugh, baby pinching is awful! Hopefully you can break him of that habit quickly. I still hate that Beanie will somehow always manage to find my nipples to use as her hand holds when she loses her balance or lunges at me.
Beanie has her first ear infection. Not bad that she's 18 months old and it's only the second time she's been sick. I felt so bad that I had no idea, though. I hadn't seen any indications that her ears were hurting. I took her in because she'd been running a fever for a day and a half (only controllable by alternating between ibuprofen and acetaminophen) but with no other symptoms (last time that happened she had a throat infection). She had even been sleeping better at night than normal (which is really weird). Today was her first day of no fever since Wednesday, so the antibiotics must have kicked in. She has been so good and hasn't even fought taking her medicine, even though she doesn't like it (she waves "bye bye" at the dropper in between each squirt).
Bonus - in the pool pic Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I've said this elsewhere, but Duplo just weaned himself in the last week. I have some guesses as to why: he got sick on Monday, and he's cutting his bicuspids all at once. Still, even after he got better the next day, he refused to nurse. I gave him tylenol to help with the teething pain, and he just would not do it. And frankly, I'd been trying to reduce his dependence on me (previously we'd been doing about six times a day) so Jon Boy and I could go on a mini vacation this week.
Anyway, after a few days of pumping and feeding him that plus whole milk and lots of solids, he started sleeping through the night. One night he did 8.5 hours. Most nights he's been doing at least 5.5 to 6 with one waking and then about 5 more. It's funny to think that a week or two ago I was desperately trying him to go a whole 4 hours in a row.
Every sleep book I've read assures parents that hunger has nothing to do with night waking past a certain age, but I always felt that when my babies wake at night, they're starving. And it's just too suspicious that Duplo would immediately start sleeping much better after weaning.
My guess is that I produce either relatively low-fat milk, or else not very much milk, so that my babies get hungry often and thus "snack" all day. But since they're eating so often, they're not very hungry for solids or whole milk and don't eat very well until they wean. But since they're not ultimately getting enough calories, they have to nurse all night to catch up.
I may be totally wrong. Still, I'm enjoying getting more shut-eye this week. Also, I stopped pumping Friday evening. Duplo's done nursing, period. The first few days were very bittersweet for me, since he's still only 13 months. But he's happy with it, so I guess so am I.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Yay for more sleep, Brinestone. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
quote:Originally posted by imogen: He has developed a very irritating habit of pinching when he's nursing though - particularly for his first feed when I nurse him lying down in bed, and I'm topless. He goes for the nipple he's not latched onto. Ouch!
WHY do they do that? I am always covering that nipple so she won't use it as a security blanket.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Brinestone -- when I am wake in the middle of the night, I am often hungry. It's been hours since I ate. For babies, it is more pronounced because they have smaller tummies...and nothing, not breast milk, formula, whole milk, or pizza, will sit in their tummy all night. The thing is that most of the time I can put myself back to sleep before this really registers. It is my belief that babies wake out of habit and can't go back to sleep without their crutch and for nursing babies, that is often the breast. It sounds to me as if your baby has learned to fall asleep without it, which is nice. That's when my son learned to sleep well at night -- not when I weaned but when I refused to nurse him to sleep and made him learn to sleep on his own. He continued to nurse for almost a year after that. (I did the no nursing to sleep at 6 months.)
Anyway, congrats on the sleep and for nursing for so long!
[ July 06, 2009, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Christine ]
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
So how long can I post in this thread do you think? She may be 20 months old, but she's still my baby!!
Anyway, I could really use some practical advice on how to teach and interact with her. Helping a toddler develop and grow is not as intuitive as I thought it would be.
This is where my daughter is now: As she has been growing, she has learned, mastered, and forgotten several things.
We would say "Arms up!" "Arms down!" and she would put her arms up or down. She doesn't do that anymore. She learned how to wave, never really mastered it, and she doesn't try to do it anymore.
She used to say Mama a lot, Dada occasionally and a few other words, but she doesn't anymore. She babbles a lot, and occasionally her babble sounds like she may be trying to make words. We try to notice whenever that happens so we can give meaning to her babble, hoping that it will help develop her language skills. But when I ask her "Can you say...", she doesn't try to imitate me.
She has a sort of grunt hum that she makes when she is eating, whether it is mealtime or even if she's munching on a cracker. When she's excited about something, she'll wave her arms vigorously.
She recognizes patterns, at least in speech. I'll say One! Two! Three! and then I'll tickle her or kiss her or pick her up and fly her around the room, whatever, and she really enjoys the anticipation--she knows that something fun is coming after the 1 2 3 count.
Even though she doesn't do a lot of the gestures that she used to, she still has an amazing memory. Usually, I give her food on her tray and she'll eat from that. Several months ago, I put her food in a bowl with a suction cup on the bottom. It didn't take her long to figure out how to release the suction and inspect the bowl, dumping the food out. So, I went back to the tray method. I wasn't sure how she released the suction, but it looks like she was just randomly pulling and pushing on it, which worked. Well, yesterday, I gave her the food in her bowl again. After she finished eating, she wanted to move the bowl. She inspected the rubber ring closely, and found the little tab that releases the suction (which was on the opposite side of the bowl, so it was hidden) and pushed it gently, like an expert, releasing the bowl. I was quite impressed.
She also learned to "blub blub" early on. I would put my finger to my lips to make the funny sound (you know where you move your finger up and down over your lips and it makes a blub blub sound?), and then I would do it to her and make the sound for her. She loved that, and it didn't take her long to figure out how to do it on her own. Well, for a while, she would do it a lot, and then it was like she forgot it, and she didn't do it for about a month. Then, out of the blue one day, she started doing it again. She doesn't do it much now, but she knows what it is.
She loves peekaboo. She'll hide her face, wait for us to wonder where she is, and then she'll put whatever is hiding her face down and giggle. She hasn't forgotten that.
She'll walk over to her daddy and put her arms up for him to pick her up. She responds in the same way when I put my arms down to pick her up and say "Up up up!"
Sometimes, it's very hard to get her to make eye contact or to respond when we're talking to her. But not always. She does make eye contact, just not always when we want her to. Sometimes, she's trying to look around us at a commercial on TV. We try to turn off the commercials whenever we're watching something. She'll ignore the TV most of the time when we're watching grown up shows, but she will immediately look at the TV when commercials come on.
She is just starting to learn to color. She has a toy with a screen she can scribble on with a magnetic pen. She is pretty good at scribbling--that took a while. She still very occasionally tries to draw with the wrong end of the pen. As for regular coloring, she will sometimes scribble with whatever I've given her. Since she is more interested in eating crayons, I usually give her colored pencils. She'll try to lightly color with them, half the time with the wrong side of the pencil--but mostly, she just loves to throw everything around her on the floor. I know that's typical toddler behavior, so I try to ignore it mostly. But I can't help feeling that she should be coloring more by now. Maybe it's too soon for that. Oh, and I do sit there with her and color so that she can see me doing it.
She doesn't really play with toys. She likes to hold the toys and walk around with them, and drop them all over the floor. Also, if it is an electronic toy, she loves to push the buttons and listen to it make sounds. She's got button pushing mastered! (So much so that I asked my relatives to get her toys that require her interaction but that aren't electronic.) I try to show her how to play with toys because the pediatrician told me at her last appointment that I can play next to her at this age, to show her how, but that she wouldn't really play *with* me, yet. This is where I can really use some help. I don't know how to demonstrate playing. I can go vroom vroom with a car and I can stack blocks, but I am at a loss as to what else I can do.
She loves to sit and look at books, whether we're reading to them, or whether she's looking at them by herself. When we're reading to her, she turns the pages for us. She doesn't really pay attention to the story yet, which I think is probably normal. She seems to recognize words that we write sometimes, from a few of her baby videos. Her daddy wrote some of the more common words from her videos on a piece of paper once, and she loved that piece of paper. She would sit and just look and look at those words.
Speaking of videos, we know that she has watched entirely too much television. Our situation has been less than ideal, as much as it pains us. My husband is chronically ill, so is very limited in how much childcare he can provide. He will sit with her and look through books, and read with her, and show her how to play the xylophone and play with cars, stack blocks, etc. He's unable to do that as much as he'd like, but it does happen. I'm trying to hold down a full-time job--most of the time that I'm working away from home, she's asleep. Which means she goes to bed late, sleeps late, and I get anywhere from 2-6 hours a sleep and then go to work. When daddy is up to it, he will watch her for an hour or two if she wakes up before I come home. If he's not, I go home immediately. (My job is very understanding and flexible.)
When I'm home, I'm usually splitting time between household chores, cooking, and putting in a few hours doing work at home things for my job. So, I would often put on a video for her or turn on PBS. I hated doing it, but really didn't see an alternative. That's over now. I feel like the TV is affecting her adversely, and I am hoping that any problems it has caused with her attention are fixable. It's tough, but I have decided to do whatever it takes to help her.
I have an appointment with her doctor in two weeks to get her evaluated for developmental delays. I know that there are a few things with her behavior and with forgetting things that she has mastered which are red flags--or if not red, at least pink. I would like to start working with her now to help her develop so that she doesn't end up being behind her peers.
So, to get to my question... what sorts of things can I do with her to help her learn and develop new skills? How do you play with a 20 month old like my daughter? What can I do? What exercises can I do? What activities can I try? I made some homemade play dough (flour, oatmeal, and water). I tried to show her how to play with it, rolling it into balls, stacking them, pressing her hand into it to make a print. She ate a few pieces, dropped a few pieces on the floor, and when I would tell her not to put them on the floor and put my hand out, she started pulling off little pieces and placing them in my hand. I would then press them together into a little ball. She liked that for a little while. (And then she got fussy, cause she wanted a nap.)
I need ideas. I need thoughts from you other mothers and child experts (and novices) out there. Lately, in between trying different activities (like the playdough and coloring) with her, I basically let her run around the room exploring, holding her toys, shaking things that rattle, and getting into the box of papers I'm slowly trying to shred and sort. (She loves to pull the papers out and place them all over the floor. Which reminds me, after watching me sort papers, she started looking at each piece of paper before putting it on the floor, imitating me, I think.) I also will play music and dance around with her some. She loves music.
I just don't know what sorts of things I can do with her that will help her developmentally.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
To summarize what has been bothering me:
She not talking. (My mom said I didn't talk until 2, which makes me feel a little better, but not much.)
She doesn't use gestures to communicate--much. She doesn't wave or point at things she wants.
She doesn't always make eye contact or respond to us.
She waves her arms when she's excited (it's kind of like she waves her whole body, like if she's sitting, her legs are involved in the wave). This wouldn't concern me if it hadn't been listed on a list of early warning signs for developmental delays and autism.
She grunts/hums when she eats.
She doesn't really "play" on her own, or even with us.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Have you spoken with your pediatrician about your concerns?
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I did at her last appointment, and the doctor said that we could wait until her 2 year appointment to evaluate her if she's not talking by then. It has been bothering me a lot lately, especially when I read a list of early signs of autism in Toddlers. She doesn't do all of the things mentioned, but enough that it concerns me. So I called her pediatrician and made an appointment in two weeks for her to be evaluated. It's just that I want to do whatever I can with her now to help her develop. I figure it can't hurt. I just don't know what sorts of things to do.
Posted by scholarette (Member # 11540) on :
Katarain, I wish I could give you some good advice, but it is so hard to say anything with kids. My daughter did some of the behaviors you mention, we talked to our doctor and as she has gotten older, things are getting better. We did get a hearing test because the doctor was concerned, and the specialist said that you wouldn't believe how many kids come in because they completely ignore their parents. Mine essentially went from babbling to full sentences, so while I was very worried when her vocab was so limited, now, not so concerned. But it is pretty variable, so talk to doctor about this stuff.
Interacting with not yet 2 year olds is hard and beyond what you are doing, I can't think of much. Right now, with my 3 year old, I am not allowed to touch her toys, but she wants me to play with her. So, I bring my computer over and sit next to her and she is happy.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Well, hearing that you had some similar concerns and things are okay now does help! I have hope. See, to me, she is such a bright and amazing child, so I try to look at her behavior objectively--I don't want to miss something because I'm too wrapped up in thinking that everything she does is perfect. When I read the list of early warning signs for autism, I was dismayed that she exhibits some of those behaviors. I want her to have the earliest intervention possible.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
I have a 19 month old so I can relate to how challenging it can be to "play" with them at this age. She also is not into toys right now. She does exactly what you say your daughter does. She loves to carry them around and take them out of the toybox but doesn't really want to play with them. I think it is developmentally appropriate at this age. My pediatrician wasn't at all concerned. One thing that helped me was setting goals for myself. I tell myself that I will play toys with her or color with her for say 20 minutes without any adult distractions. This kept me sane knowing that it wasn't forever and really helped me fully engage Eliza.
Reading your list of things you do, the thing that struck me was that it didn't talk a lot about experiences outside the house. Eliza loves to do things out and about. She actually loves to run errands and things like that. We live in a big city so we do lots of museums, zoos, parks, and children's groups. They are great learning opportunities and really help her develop skills. She can talk about almost all of those experiences. When she went to the zoo last time, she learned to say several new animals and also what sounds they made. At the museums, we do the science centers and things like that. She is much more interested in stacking the giant blocks there than her normal blocks at home. All of the activities allow her to see what the other kids are doing as well.
I taught preschool before I had my daughter. One of the biggest contributors I saw to delays in kids was parents who underestimated their kids abilities. Its important to make sure your expectations are reasonable but not too low. So if you know she can use a word to ask for say milk, make her use her word. Any attempt is ok. If it isn't perfect no need to worry. Its just important that she learns that she needs to communicate.
It sounds like you are really trying and that seeing the dr. will at least ease some of your concerns. 18 months to 2 years is when language is really suppose to explode so you never know when she might just start talking up a storm.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
She doesn't get out much, that's true. When I do take her out, it's walking around outside or going to a park. There isn't much to DO. Where I used to live, there were a lot of great places like you mention. I wonder if there's anything like that here.
I must admit, though, that I'm pretty scared to take her out because of flu season. She touches everything, and then touches her face before I get a chance to clean her hands off. I'm afraid of her getting sick.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I'll work on getting her out more, even if it's just to run errands.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
It's really tough at this age because there is so much variety between kids.
Beanie is about the same age as your daughter (her birthday is the end of next month). I have been a little paranoid lately about her 2 year check-up, since the PA we saw for her 18 month check-up was a little concerned about her not talking much. I wasn't too worried, since she's always communicated well, even without speaking much, but I was worried that she was worried, if that makes sense. One thing you can try doing that I've been doing is to make an actual list of the words she uses or has used, even if she doesn't use them much now (the PA said sometimes they'll use a word once or a few times and then not use it for a long time, but that's ok). In only a few days I'm up over 40 words already (not including the words she signs and the animal noises she does), so I'm feeling better about that now (and can have some concrete information for when they ask about her vocabulary). How much do you guys talk to her? I feel a little strange sometimes, but I basically narrate my entire day to her (talk to her in the car, at the store, everywhere). When we're watching tv shows I talk about what's happening and ask her questions ("where's the flower?", "what does kipper say?", etc). Now that she's talking more, I try to encourage it by asking her questions and sometimes playing dumb (within reason) until she says what she wants.
We do mostly unstructured play like you guys do (there's toys available for her to play with and she plays with stuff as she wants). She wasn't too interested in coloring until very recently (the last few days she has been LOVING coloring). She goes through phases of liking to play with certain things, but has always liked books (like your daughter). She has always hummed (mmmmm) while eating too.
I try to take her somewhere (often it's just errands, but she gets excited to go to the post office or to the grocery store too) several times a week. Even walking to the mailbox in the afternoon is fun for her. When the weather is cooler here, I try to take her for a walk every day or two (but I haven't been able to do that for the last couple weeks because I've been sick). We try to go to the park once or twice a week (on our own or with the church play group).
I don't know if any of that helps you at all, but I hope the doctor will be able to help you more and you will be able to find some new things to try with her. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Stacking blocks for her to knock over is good. Even after my kidlets started building things with blocks they still loved to knock other people's towers over. Dumping things out of a box/basket and putting them back in. Stirring water in a bowl with a big spoon or whisk while you cook.
I wouldn't worry about the coloring. I remember that my first didn't have any interest in it until he was 2. He liked other people to draw things for him, but he either couldn't or wouldn't press hard enough to draw anything himself.
Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
Anyone have any good ideas for indoor play activities for a 20 month old. I am looking for projects/activities that I could set up that might entertain and especially some that might get out some energy. With our weather stuck in the in between stage between snow and rain everything is wet so outside play is mostly out. I am starting to feel a little stir crazy and I know she is too. I don't want to keep turning on a movie everyday but I she isn't that interested in most of her toys. Coloring so far is also not a hint. Anyone have anthing fun their kids liked?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Splashing in the sink. Also stiring and "measuring" rice or dried beans. They're easier to clean up than letting the kid scoop flour or sugar and not too expensive if they end up on the floor.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Beanie always has fun when we would dance together to music and when I "chase" her or play peekaboo around the furniture. She also has fun playing with our plastic storage containers. They're all in a cabinet at floor level (the only one we didn't put a latch on) and has had lots of fun taking them out and playing with them (stacking them up, stirring in them, taking off lids on the easy ones). I love the measuring beans idea - I'm going to have to break out some of my old beans for her to play with.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I admit that Celeste and I have been watching a little TV every day too. It's just so easy.
I also try to turn on some music and dance every day.
Cooking projects -- toddlers love stirring and some are adventurous enough to try cracking eggs (make sure to have them crack them into an empty bowl).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Also stiring and "measuring" rice or dried beans.
Double-yes to this. We got a huge bin of dried beans of various sizes (from tiny lentils and split peas to huge kidney and garbanzos), and found that both our kids loved "digging" in the bin for "treasures" we'd hidden there, running their hands through them, or even wading through it in their bare feet.
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Could be because he was a preemie, though, and didn't do much except for sleep for the first few weeks. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I say he's causing more stress by not being supportive.![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
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Yeah, Beanie has spit down my cleavage on a couple of occasions (quite the feat, since I don't have much cleavage). It's definitely an interesting sensation... I don't know that I've ever known a baby that didn't spit up, so it sounds like you got lucky. Too bad Charles spoiled the lucky streak! ![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
Maggie started singing tonight. Not tuneless baby singing. Actual song singing.![[Monkeys]](graemlins/monkeys.gif)
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