The subject line pretty much says it all. Not that del Toro is nearly the unknown Peter Jackson was before helming LOTR, but it seems they are going with the same directorial strategy for these two movies.
Really didn't see this coming, for some I am sure there will be cheering, but I just don't know what to think.
[ February 06, 2008, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Del Toro's keeping busy... he's also doing Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Remind me why there's going to be TWO hobbit movies?
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I like most of the movies that Guillermo del Toro has done. But I'm not sure about this one. I'm interested to see how he approaches it.
Posted by Starsnuffer (Member # 8116) on :
So is the Hobbit going to be in Spanish? That just seems like it would be wrong.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Starsnuffer: So is the Hobbit going to be in Spanish? That just seems like it would be wrong.
Doesn't have to be... He's had a few in English: Blade II, Hellboy I and II, etc.
(EDIT: Brain output error corrected)
[ February 02, 2008, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Nighthawk ]
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk:
quote:Originally posted by Starsnuffer: So is the Hobbit going to be in Spanish? That just seems like it would be wrong.
Doesn't have to be... He's had a few in Spanish: Blade II, Hellboy I and II, etc.
Hellboy and Blade were in Spanish?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"So is the Hobbit going to be in Spanish? That just seems like it would be wrong."
True, Jackson's choice of filming in English rather than in the original Westron just about ruined the LotR movies.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
OK, so long as Peter Jackson is still executive producer.
quote:Originally posted by Starsnuffer: So is the Hobbit going to be in Spanish? That just seems like it would be wrong.
Doesn't have to be... He's had a few in Spanish: Blade II, Hellboy I and II, etc.
Hellboy and Blade were in Spanish?
Oops. English, I meant. ***sigh...***
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:the other will be a sequel about the 80-year gap between The Hobbit and The Fellowship of the Ring
That's such a ghastly idea.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:the other will be a sequel about the 80-year gap between The Hobbit and The Fellowship of the Ring
That's such a ghastly idea.
What exactly happened during that time...?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"That's such a ghastly idea."
I'm withholding judgement on that until I see it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm not. Because according to the timeline in the books, pretty much nothing happened in that time.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
Maybe Bilbo could develop a coke habit.
He could also be openly gay. There could be a gay Hobbit neighborhood, and...OK that sucks.
I'm out of ideas.
Thank God I'm not a writer.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Basically, between Hob and LoTR the Necrophilia--er Necromancer is discovered to be Sauron, who re-inhabits Mordor. One of the dwarves leads a colony into Moria and awakens the Balrog. Frodo is born and raised. Gollum leaves the Misty Mountains searching for Bilbo, is captured by Sauron and tortured in Mordor, then escapes via Shelob's tunnels. Aragorn and the rangers begin their watch of the Shire, their search for Gollum and their rebirth. Saramun goes from leading the White Council to betraying it.
But other than that, yeah, nothing happens.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Good summation, Dan. Except that almost all of that is covered in flashbacks and summations in the books and films.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You got some of the details wrong there Dan. The Necromancer is discovered to be Sauron during The Hobbit when the White Council drives him out of Dol Guldur. Gandalf sneaks into the pits and finds..err, I want to say Thrain, just after the last Dwarf ring was taken from him, and he gets the map and the key which he later gives to Thorin.
Balin leads the colony to Moria against the wishes of Dain, and they don't awaken the Balrog, he's already awake. They pop back in, hoping that all the orcs are gone and I guess also hoping that the Balrog was gone too, but he was still there, Durin's Bane, and Balin's Company was destroyed.
I can't remember the order in which Gollum is captured, he's either captured by Gollum and released via Shelob's cleft, and then captured by Aragorn, or the other way around. When he's captured by Aragorn he's sent to Thranduil's kingdom and kept captive in the mountain. But he escapes.
The problem with this narrative is that, like swaths of the Silmarillion, though stuff is happening, we really don't know what fills in the gaps, and other than that, there's not really a cohesive story, it's just little plot points really stretched out to explain what comes later.
Making that movie really IS a horribly idea, because inevitably, they will have to fudge a lot of it and make stuff up to smooth out the wrinkles, and it will far beyong the dramatic license that Jackson took.
They're better off doing one of the more complete stories, like the Narn.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I rather assume that Jackson and company will get to try their hand at crafting an original story in Tolkien's universe, so we'll get to see how good they are compared to Tolkien.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
quote: I can't remember the order in which Gollum is captured, he's either captured by Gollum and released via Shelob's cleft, and then captured by Aragorn, or the other way around. When he's captured by Aragorn he's sent to Thranduil's kingdom and kept captive in the mountain. But he escapes.
Well, if Viggo Mortensen's in it, I'll be seeing it. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: I rather assume that Jackson and company will get to try their hand at crafting an original story in Tolkien's universe, so we'll get to see how good they are compared to Tolkien.
I won't know, because I won't see it.
But either way, there is no comparison.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I already said I don't know what to think, but now I just don't know that I should think about any of this period. Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Because according to the timeline in the books, pretty much nothing happened in that time.
Hmmmm.... maybe nothing will happen in the movie, then. A Middle Earth version of Seinfeld perhaps?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I can see Bilbo asking Gandalf if he is "master of his domain".
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
He hopes for finalization of some of the plans by this Summer. He said it'll be a FIVE YEAR commitment to make the two movies, which will be filmed concurrently. Wow. Considering how much work was already done in the first two movies, I find that incredible, unless it means they're considering taking it in a different direction visually, which I think would be a big mistake.
Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson will be involved in the writing, which I think is a fantastically good decision. It looks like his involvement is more than just speculation at this point. I'm maybe starting to feel a bit better about The Hobbit. Though not necessarily for the sequel, which I'm holding out hope will end up being from the Silmarillion, and will tell the story of Turin. Come onnnnnn First Age!
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
He hopes for finalization of some of the plans by this Summer. He said it'll be a FIVE YEAR commitment to make the two movies, which will be filmed concurrently. Wow. Considering how much work was already done in the first two movies, I find that incredible, unless it means they're considering taking it in a different direction visually, which I think would be a big mistake.
Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson will be involved in the writing, which I think is a fantastically good decision. It looks like his involvement is more than just speculation at this point. I'm maybe starting to feel a bit better about The Hobbit. Though not necessarily for the sequel, which I'm holding out hope will end up being from the Silmarillion, and will tell the story of Turin. Come onnnnnn First Age!
While I concur that movies of the First Age would be spectacular, I think I would like to see a film adaptation of the epic of the Silmarils, though I grant that the complexity and breadth of that saga would require more than one movie to adequately tell. I most enjoy the stories of Beren & Luthien, the fall of Doriath (which ties closely into Turin's tale), and the journeys of Earendil (I know I left out an accent, but did I misspell it, too? If so, my apologies!). But the fight at the gates of Angband where Morgoth himself comes out to challenge a lone elf-prince (who was it, Finwe? Fingolfin? I forget...) is also an awe-inspiring imagine in my imagination.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
If they found a good enough writer, they could also probably make an interesting series about Aragorn's travels from around 2957 to 2980. However, the published books only really give a hint about what happens during those times, so a lot would have to be filled in by others. This would likely drive a lot of Tolkein fans absolutely nuts, but could definitely be interesting as long as it was done right.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Bando, Finwe was killed by Morgoth at the gates of Feanor's fortress, Formenos, I think. After he died, his three sons were left, I believe Feanor, Finarfin and Fingolfin. Finarfin ended up abandoning the march and returned to Tirion to become High King of the Noldor.
Fingolfin after the Dagor Bragollach charged on the gates of Angbad and smote the door with his sword, Ringil, and demanded Morgoth face him in single combat. It was the last time that Morgoth would leave Angbad until the Valar came to stop him at the end of the First Age. He wounded Morgoth seven or eight times, but eventually Morgoth struck him down with Grond (which was the name later used for the mighty battering ram used to break the doors of Minas Tirith at the Battle of the Pellennor Fields, described by Gandalf as "like the arm of the devil himself")
Frankly I'd love to see movie quality production put into LOTR as a miniseries or TV show. I think it would take half a dozen movies to tell the story appropriately. There's too much that happens too many years apart and too many stories to tell in even just a trilogy.
It's hard to pick a SINGLE image for me of the most impressive scene from the Sil, but, off the top of my head I think it's the Nirneath Arneodiad (Battle of Unnumbered Tears). I can see in my head the gleaming spears of Turgon, who came unlooked for upon opening the leaguer at Gondolin to the rescue of his kin.
And I can see at the end of the battle, Hurin standing with the rearguard to protect his escape from the battle, crying "Aule entuluva!" Day will come again! every time his axe struck down a troll, dozens of times until his axe literally melted from the blood of the trolls he'd slain, until he was finally captured and taken alive.
There are a lot of other moments like that, and I can remember being really sad and really angry the first times I read about the death of the various Noldorin Princes, especially Finrod, who is probably my favorite Tolkien character. Impressive and emotional maybe as some moments were in LOTR (think of the part in the movie with the lighting of the beacons or when Theoden was arranging his charge at the Pellennor), the Sil has a dozen moments just like that, and they'd all give you goosebumps on the big screen I think.
ricree -
I'm one of the Tokien fans that would absolutely throw a hissy fit if they tried to do that. If they can't find the info in even Chris Tolkien's Histories of Middle Earth, then it isn't there.
There is PLENTY of information that can be covered, they don't need to make anything up.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
And if they do it will probably suck, just like the additions of the Nazgul breaking Galdalf's staff but leaving him because of some horns, and like a Ringwraith seeing Frodo with the ring near Mordor.
Or leaving out the entire POINT of the story, the Scouring of the Shire, to put all that crap in.
[ April 04, 2008, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:And if they do it will probably suck, just like the additions of the Nazgul breaking Galdalf's staff but leaving him because of some horns
I didn't like them adding in the staff breaking, but that and the location of where it happened are the only things that were changed. In the book Gandalf goes down to the gate to meet the Witch King when the gate is first broken, the sacking of the first ring of the city never happened the way it was portrayed in the movie.
But in the book the Witch King's sword burns, he says something like "do you not know death when you see it? This is my hour." And then something about a cock crowed in the city, and a light that signals the dawn of a new morning, and horns, horns, horns, great horns of the north wildly blowing, how they echoed in the distance. And then he turns away to command the defense of the Morgul forces.
I don't really see the point in having him break the staff though.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
I'm glad they're using WETA, the old stages, New Zealand, and everything else from the originals to keep the same feel in the new ones. This really gets my hopes up, but this:
quote:with the story centering on Bilbo Baggins taking the Ring of Power from Gollum.
has me nervous. The taking of TOR from Gollum by Bilbo was a single chapter in the book, "Riddles in the Dark." It's maybe halfway through, and Gollum doesn't have any more than a few lines and then he's out of it for the rest of the book. He doesn't even come out of the Misty Mountains until sometime afterwards because he hates sunlight.
The center of the story is the journey to Lonely Mountain and the destruction of Smaug and the reestablishing of Dale and the Kingdom Under the Mountain. The finding of TOR, though it has huge meaning later on, is a relatively minor plot point in the book. I'd like to think I can trust del Toro and Jackson not too badly screw with that though. Still, has me worried.
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
Assuming Jackson has as much power as it sounds like he does, I think I can trust him to be very faithful to the book. I'm expecting a little more focus on/expansion of the Riddles in the Dark, but that's it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I hope they take out the Jar Jar like aspects of his character and make him a little darker.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Sir Ian McKellen talks about reprising his Oscar-nominated turn as Gandalf: Read about it here. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Serkis is supposedly all but confirmed for reprising the roll of Gollum I hear. He has the movie listed on his personal website.
Weta has spent a few million dollars upgrading their servers and adding computer power ahead of The Hobbit.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Not having either McKellan or Serkis on board would have been deal-breakers for me. I'm glad that Del Toro made sure to get both so early.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Not getting McKellan would've totally changed the movie.
Not getting Serkis would have been easily survivable. Gollum's role is small and he's CGI. He could literally phone it in.
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