I've seen those books on the SF/Fantasy shelves for years and years, but I've never read any of them.
Are they any good? The online reviews seem to be very mixed, except for the Wikipedia article, which can't stop gushing about how great the books are. Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Overall, I liked them, but oh they do drag on quite a bit....
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
They are... mixed.
I have not read the entire series, but I've read a good 6 or more books worth so I think I'm allowed to remark upon them.
The writing is... mediocre. It's been a while since I read them, so it's possible they're even worse written than I recall. But, I recall the writing to be very mediocre, so hopefully my memory is fairly accurate.
The romance is resolved within the first book, so all the subsequent books mostly try to rip the main lovers apart and then eventually they get back together. Pretty meh.
The magic is interesting, but I got the feeling reading through that the author was basically just making up new wrinkles as he went along, and that little or none of it was planned out ahead of time in any meaningful way.
The later books begin to delve pretty heavily (and with a pretty heavy hand, too) into Objectivist philosophy. Being largely objectivist (little o) myself, this didn't really bother me immensely, but a lot of people get really turned off when it takes that turn.
One friend of mine likes to refer to it as "Ayn Rand does Fantasy" which is not inaccurate.
All in all it's just a sort of... eh... series. It's nothing special, but it's not really awful either. I read it when I was on a major fantasy kick, and I read A Game of Thrones shortly after, which completely blew every aspect of the Sword of Truth series away. Which probably contributes to me not remembering it in detail.
If you have a good amount of free time and enjoy fantasy novels, maybe you should take a crack at them. But I'm certainly not going to actually make a recommendation.
Oh, and one final word of warning: The first book, Wizard's First Rule, hits virtually every trite fantasy cliche in existence. But he essentially blows through his cliche quiver immediately, and the subsequent books are a little more original, if not any better written.
Posted by Fractal Fraggle (Member # 9803) on :
I second a lot of what Dan_Frank said about the books.
For me, it wasn't the Objectivist Philosophy itself that turned me off but the fact that it was so heavy-handed that (especially in later books) it took away from the plot and characters. In fact, I stopped reading the books because I couldn't bring myself to pay money for a book where I'd skip pages and pages at a time, just to get through the part where the main character is lecturing me, supposedly while lecturing the other characters, about Objectivism.
I considered checking out the remaining books from the library, just so I know what eventually happens in the series, but so far I keep finding better things to read. I guess that's not much of a recommendation.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I've read all the books except for the one that is currently in hardcover.
They are awful. They are the worst fantasy I have ever read. The only books I have read that are worse have been self-published. Goodkind is a very clumsy writer (which won't necessarily hurt a television series). As mentioned, at first he is very cliched. And it does feel very seat of the pants, given the way he introduces tropes and then leaves them behind, never mentioning them again. And then the Ayn Rand Lite stuff begins. But Goodkind is nowhere near as talented a writer as Rand (unbelievable as that may sound).
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
I was about to argue with Icarus when I remembered that Eragon was self-published.
Even still, I'm not sure it's the worst fantasy I've ever read. That's a pretty tall order. I remember a few enjoyable moments, while reading. It's definitely one of the worst written, however, no argument there. You could probably take pretty much any given passage in one of his novels, post it on here, and get any Hatrack poster to rewrite it and do a better job.
Even Blayne.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Icarus: *L* There's what, ten books or so?
First, at which point in the series did you find out they were awful and why did you continue? Second, at which point in the series did you find out they were the worst fantasy you've ever read (and why did you continue if applicable)? And what would you consider to be a masochist? Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
If he thinks they're all awful, he undoubtedly thinks the first one is awful. It's quite possibly the worst of the lot.
I don't know, sometimes it's fun to read awful books. You can still learn something from them.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I liked the first 3 or 4, but after that I was bored.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Are these the ones with the evil bondage women, or is that L.E. Modesitt Jr.?
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
if you insist on calling the Mord-Sith "evil bondage women", then yes. They are part of the Sword of Truth series.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
No, that's the one, MightyCow. Well, I can't speak for Modesitt, but Goodkind's got 'em.
I enjoyed the first few books, though I was probably way too young to be reading them (12 or 13 when I picked up Wizard's First Rule). Then they got sucky. Too many loose ends, too much Ayn Rand. It's possible to make a point without bludgeoning your readers.
I kept with them out of sheer dogged determination, though Naked Empire is possibly the worst book I've ever read. Now I'm waiting for the newest one in paperback, because I don't care that much.
I don't much care about a tv series, either.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I liked them, so whatever. Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
I've reads the first seven books and enjoyed them. Actually I've re-read the first book twice. This may just be because I'm not critical enough. I've never noticed the Objectivist propaganda which seems to be so obvious, but then again this may be because at the time I had not yet heard of Ayn Rand.
Currently I own a paperback version of the first book, a hardcover version of the fifth and a paperback edition of the ninth book (which I cannot read yet, because I have to find a copy of part 8 first).
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
If it's just the one book, it might be okay. I have a certain amount of respect for Raimi. But as I've said before, once I got the idea that every book was going to be "Richard is in danger of losing his freedom! And Kahlan is in danger of being sexually assaulted!" I lost all interest in the series.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
The first book actually stands on its own pretty well. If they kept it to just that one, it might be worth watching.
I'm not sure how they could re-write the series beyond book one and still have it air prime-time. Heck, I'm not even sure how they could re-write the first one enough.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
The first book 'stands on its own'... kind of... because it's full of almost as many trite fantasy stereotypes as Eragon.
Uh, Spoiler Warning. Sort of.
The land of magic is ruled by an evil lord. Long ago, one of the last good, powerful wizards vanished from said land.
A simple young woodsman lives a quiet life in a land without magic, and a wise old man is his closest mentor.
In a startling reveal, the wise old man and the old powerful wizard are one and the same! The wise old wizard gives the simple woodsman a magic sword.
Despite having never used a sword before, the simple woodsman slaughters many things with ease, even warriors who have dedicated their lives to training at battle.
In another startling reveal, the evil king is actually the simple woodsman's father! Le gasp!
Meh. The more I remember of this series, the more I'm inclined to agree with Icarus. Certainly, there were specific events within each novel that were exciting or fun to read, if you didn't think about them too hard. But that doesn't actually make them good books.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
So it's a Randian Shannara?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
That sounded like a description of the first Star Wars movie.
But the Objectivist thing has me intrigued. I'll have to read the series. Is it complete?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Puffy: I actually never read Shannara. Don't know how I missed it during my fantasy binge, but at this point in my life I doubt I'll go back for it.
Lisa: I believe the final book in the series is either out, or will be very soon.
Unlike most people, I think my favorite book is either 5 or 6, I forget which, in which the hero goes on a number of anti-communism and pro-free market tirades. Some of them are extremely heavy handed, but others I really enjoyed.
Edit: It does sound like the first Star Wars movie. I think someone on this very board has made a compelling argument comparing virtually every aspect of Eragon to Star Wars as well. Perhaps it's a rule of writing bad fantasy that you need to borrow from Star Wars as heavily as your editors will let you get away with.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
It's complete, Lisa. The most recent (and final) book was released in December. They run:
Wizard's First Rule (Enjoyable read) Stone of Tears (Still enjoyable) Blood of the Fold (Still enjoying, but wondering where the story is heading) Temple of the Winds (Weirded out, but readable..) Soul of the Fire (CRAP!) Faith of the Fallen (Good again! Hope! Could the series be back on track?!) The Pillars of Creation (Nope. Confusion followed by anger) Naked Empire (Ayn Rand Beats You Over the Head. Plot gone AWOL) Chainfire (Interesting, has potential) Phantom (Haven't made it through) Confessor (Haven't got yet)
Dan, I enjoyed book 6 too, and I think that's the one you're referring to. It had a story again that I cared about, and the Objectivism was heavy-handed but fit the plot. "Naked Empire" was where it really lost me. It felt like the story was just window dressing for ranting.
A cliched story can still be enjoyable. It might not be great literature, but it can be a good ride. That's pretty much how I see the first book. Old tropes, with new and interesting characters.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Icarus: *L* There's what, ten books or so?
First, at which point in the series did you find out they were awful and why did you continue? Second, at which point in the series did you find out they were the worst fantasy you've ever read (and why did you continue if applicable)? And what would you consider to be a masochist?
The first, the first, and OCD. Posted by Sergeant (Member # 8749) on :
I've read them all and I can't exactly say when the series jumped the shark for me but Pillars of Creation and beyond could have been put into one book. Like my mom likes to say about books, they would make good readers digest condensed books
The last was a bit better only in that it is over. The again I feel much the same about the Wheel of Time series.
Sergeant
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Oh, the Sword of Truth series!
I've read about this. Everything I've read makes me giggle immensely.
The chicken that wasn't a chicken... oh, man.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I had forgotten about the Evil Chicken!
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
I still don't remember the Evil Chicken. Remind me?
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
The Evil Chicken was the first appearence of some bodiless manifestation of evil. I can't recall the name of the spirit in question, but it appeared in the Mud People village, where Richard spotted it as acting different from normal chickens. Incredibly, the villagers and even Kahlan do not believe him immediately when he talks about "the chicken that isn't a chicken.." But eventually it displays its violent nature and another quest ensues.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I'm so glad I stopped reading that series after the third book.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I'm just glad that there's more people here backing up my take on the books... i.e. I had a couple friends who kept claiming these as god's gift to the fantasy genre, but about 70-100 pages into the first one I just had to stop in disgust of the writing (along with a couple other friends, though at least I only paid 2$ for it).
If anyone doesn't like Goodkind's writing, and wants to wallow in it, then look for his unofficial website and read his letters... just wow...
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I enjoyed the books. I don't think all of them were great. I was not a big fan of Soul of the Fire or Pillars of Creation.
However, Faith of the Fallen is one of my favorite books. I enjoyed seeing the impact that one person can have on a community.
The books aren't for everyone though. Goodkind is a big fan of Ayn Rand, and it really shows in the later books. If that would bother you, I wouldn't start reading them. Also, there is quite a bit of violence in the books.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
I had forgotten about the Evil Chicken!