Here's the skinny: Joss and Eliza are working together on a new hour-long drama. Joss is executive producer and head writer, and Eliza is co-producer and playing the lead role. "Out of Gas" writer (and "Wonderfalls" creator) Tim Minear has already announced his involvement as well, presumably as a writer. The premise sounds really damn cool:
quote:Echo (Eliza Dushku) [is] a young woman who is literally everybody's fantasy. She is one of a group of men and women who can be imprinted with personality packages, including memories, skills, language—even muscle memory—for different assignments. The assignments can be romantic, adventurous, outlandish, uplifting, sexual and/or very illegal. When not imprinted with a personality package, Echo and the others are basically mind-wiped, living like children in a futuristic dorm/lab dubbed the Dollhouse, with no memory of their assignments—or of much else. The show revolves around the childlike Echo's burgeoning self-awareness, and her desire to know who she was before, a desire that begins to seep into her various imprinted personalities and puts her in danger both in the field and in the closely monitored confines of the Dollhouse.
Sadly, the same pitfalls that killed Firefly are back in spades: complex premise that is difficult to encapsulate in a one-sentence tagline, and it's on Fox. Nonetheless, I am totally psyched, and hopeful that this time Joss can get the audience he deserves.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
I was just about to make this thread.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
O_O
Joss, Minear and a girl way, way hotter than Summer Glau?
This may persuade me to actually watch TV again.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
Also, I thought Whedon announced that he wouldn't work with Fox anymore. What gives?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Maybe they intend to kill it and market the DVDs and merchandising. Whedon may have discovered a whole new business model that Fox is now willing to exploit.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Aaaah!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Looks like they are aiming for a mid-season replacement role for this show, which is some fast work. But it all depends on the strike.
I'll be interested in seeing what the show looks like and who else is cast in it, it looks like it has a lot of potential for both success and failure.
And I have to wonder if like most of Whedon's stuff it'll have that particular brand of comedy in it, because this doesn't really sound like an appropriate venue for it. Actually, this sort of sounds like Dark Angel in a way.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
It would appear that the management responsible for the cancellation of Firefly/Futurama got the boot, probably the only reason Fox could convince Whedon to work with them again. That and plus the seven episode commitment.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
I can't imagine why he'd want to work with Fox again.
I know if I ever get into the biz, I'll never work for Fox. Ever. Even if I become famous and well desired, I'd just say to them "No! You cancelled all my favorite shows! You spit on art and crap on quality at every opportunity? Why should I give you the pearls of my mind, you swine?"
Or something along those lines. Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
The word on the street is that Joss has always maintained a good relationship with 20th Century Fox (the development/ production end of Fox, who are responsible for backing Buffy and Angel as well as Firefly), and as the trailer for the new Futurama DVD movie suggests, the moron squad over at Fox (the television network) who got Firefly killed in the first place have since been replaced by a team more amenable to Joss's iconoclastic style of showrunning. That's the scuttlebutt, at least. We'll see how accurate that assessment is in coming months.
Posted by The Flying Dracula Hair (Member # 10155) on :
Superior!
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Joss Whedon is never going to make a series which isn't basically about a very special girl, is he?
I'm just so glad he's coming back to TV writing - the world just hasn't been the same without a Whedon show these last three years.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Also, the deal was with Elisha, FOX wanted a new show with her as star and producer. She talked to Joss about ideas and ended up bringing him in, and then Tim Minear (who also has a production deal with FOX) jumped on. From the TV Guide interview:
"Actually, hypnotized, Whedon counters. 'Eliza was wearing a hat with a big spiraling wheel on it, and she kept saying, 'Look into the wheel. You want to make television. You want it to be about me… ' It sounds hokey, but it really worked.'"
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
Woo! Made my day and it's only 7:20 in the morning.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I can't imagine why he'd want to work with Fox again.
I know if I ever get into the biz, I'll never work for Fox. Ever. Even if I become famous and well desired, I'd just say to them "No! You cancelled all my favorite shows! You spit on art and crap on quality at every opportunity? Why should I give you the pearls of my mind, you swine?"
*slides steamer trunk full of money under the table...*
"Uh... You were saying?"
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm going to really enjoy both episodes of this show.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm going to go ahead and start the online petition to Bring Back Dollhouse! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
:: laugh ::
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Awesome!
quote:Joss Whedon is never going to make a series which isn't basically about a very special girl, is he?
No more than OSC is ever going to do a major work that isn't about a very intelligent 11-year-old at its core.
That's okay. There is a lot of room for greatness in both premises.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part and any number of novels on Card's, but I'll admit that I feel a little frustration when I feel like an artist has a tendency to explore the same ground obsessively. Octavia Butler is another that I feel had a tendency to do this. Her books are brilliant, and she had really interesting things to say, but to a certain degree I felt like she was covering the same ground from one novel to another(with the Parable books being a notable exception to this).
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
What ground would you say that is for Butler, Noemon?
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I am loving this thread as much as I am loving the announcement.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part and any number of novels on Card's, but I'll admit that I feel a little frustration when I feel like an artist has a tendency to explore the same ground obsessively.
For the love of all that is holy, do not read more than one Pat Conroy book, then.
He's a good writer, but I think he basically does a find and replace on character names and town names, rearranges some chapters, and then sends the thing off to his publisher.
Also, he could write a shopping list and it would run 60 single-spaced pages.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Also, he could write a shopping list and it would run 60 single-spaced pages.
Heck, I could do that.
Can I get published now?
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Yeah, but that's different. You're just greedy.
And probably.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Yippie!
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
This news SO makes my day! A new Joss TV show!
mph: Octavia Butler seems to have a thing for a compulsion toward exotic sexual behavior. ie: "I don't want to boink the alien, but I feel so drawn to it."
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: What ground would you say that is for Butler, Noemon?
Well, there is what I've come to think of as the Lilith Character, who appears in her work as often as incredibly special, precocious children do in Card's work (which is to say, often but not always). She also has a tendency to explore the nuances of the "victim/victimizer" relationship and the level of complicity that the victim may have in such relationships. Actually, though, "victim" isn't really the right word. I'm groping for a better term, and not coming up with it. powerless/powerful? controlled/controller? It's an interesting issue, and certainly one worth thinking about, but by Fledgling I felt a little exaspirated that she didn't seem to really be covering new ground.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That makes sense, Noemon, but the Parable novels, with the hyperempathy, rising indentured servitude to corporations, and slavery of the protagonist in book two seem to cover a lot of the same ground as well.
Why do you feel that they're an exception?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Pixiest -- that's certainly present in some of her stories, but it doesn't seem as all-pervasive in her works as the themes Noemon mentioned.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's interesting, Porter; I hadn't thought about those elements as fitting in with that general theme. I don't remember the Parable books as well as I do her other stuff, since I've read each of them once, when they were first published (they're raw enough reads that they were almost physically painful for me to read, kind of like some of James Morrow's stuff), so it's possible that my memory of them is off, but with both the hyperempathy and the slavery, there isn't really much of a level of complicity on the part of the protagonist, is there? The one is a condition that she's saddled with, and the other is something imposed on her. Also, the hyperempathy thing is one sided, right? The person she's experiencing it with doesn't get anything more from the relationship with her than they would from the same set of interactions from anybody else, do they? And in the slavery situation, it's not really presented as a lopsided but still on some level symbiotic relationship between oppresser and oppressed, is it?
[edited to correct James Morrow's name. For some reason I always want to call him William]
[ November 01, 2007, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
You make good points about the hyperempathy and the slavery of the commune in book 2. They don't really fit all that well.
The indentured servitude in the books fits better and has some of those specific themes. People are essentially selling themselves into slavery to a corporation. It's very much a 2-sided relationship -- the people are fed and protected from the outside anarchy, while the corporation gets almost free labor.
Of course, not all of the slavery is 2-sided in that manner, but that aspect is there.
And with the protagonist's slavery, it does examine questions concerning complicity/collaboration with the enemy/slavery.
Those issues aren't central themes in the Parable stories like they are in Xenogenesis, Kindered, or Blood Child, but they're there. Even as she's covering new ground with these stories, she isn't wandering far. Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: way, way hotter than Summer Glau?
I think Eliza is awesome... I even watch Jay and Silent Bob sometimes just to see her in the pleather jumpsuit...
But I can no longer resist the urge to say that no one is "way, way" hotter than Summer.
nuh-uh.
hotter? maybe...
but not "way, way"
that is all...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Gina Torres, Morena Baccarain, and Jewel Staite are all three way, way hotter than Summer Glau.
Gina Torres is quite possibly the most beautiful actress alive.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: way, way hotter than Summer Glau?
I think Eliza is awesome... I even watch Jay and Silent Bob sometimes just to see her in the pleather jumpsuit...
But I can no longer resist the urge to say that no one is "way, way" hotter than Summer.
nuh-uh.
hotter? maybe...
but not "way, way"
that is all...
I'm sorry, Jim-Me, but we can no longer be friends. I'm going to need my grill tools back.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Gina Torres is quite possibly the most beautiful actress alive.
I have never loved you as much as I do right now.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Having met Summer, I can attest to her unbelievable hotness. Also, she's a sweet person, which just adds to the temperature.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
All the girls on the show are gorgeous, no doubt. Gina Torres might be my pick for most beautiful as well.
But Summer has a grace and vulnerabilty that is... unique. I would put a few above her, but "way" above-- there just isn't that much room at the top.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: The indentured servitude in the books fits better and has some of those specific themes. People are essentially selling themselves into slavery to a corporation. It's very much a 2-sided relationship -- the people are fed and protected from the outside anarchy, while the corporation gets almost free labor.
Interesting. It's precisely the indentured servitude that I remember least well from the books, unfortunately. I really ought to reread the Parable books, I suppose. Interesting that she explores this idea from an institutional angle in these books.
quote:And with the protagonist's slavery, it does examine questions concerning complicity/collaboration with the enemy/slavery.
Really? Man, it really is time for a reread.
quote:Those issues aren't central themes in the Parable stories like they are in Xenogenesis, Kindered, or Blood Child
And Fledgling, and the Patternist series.
quote:Even as she's covering new ground with these stories, she isn't wandering far.
Nicely said. I'm sure you're right; I wish I could remember the Parable books better than I do.
[ November 01, 2007, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, and yeah, Scott's right on the money with regard to Gina Torres, in my opinion.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
You're all crazy. From least hottest to most hottest it goes thusly:
Gina Torres Morena Baccarain Jewel Staite
Summer Glau
Notice the jump it takes to get from Jewel to Summer? Enough said.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
I think Summer is lovely and graceful and beautiful, but she isn't hot.
Gina Torres is breathtaking. As the men kept repeating over and over on the commentaries, "She's a goddess."
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I would think that there's a clear divide between the Kaylee/River camp and the Inara/Zoe camp. They're two completely different types of women.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
So are the hot women only limited to those that were on Firefly?
Is that why Eliza isn't on your lists; she's not worthy?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I would think that there's a clear divide between the Kaylee/River camp and the Inara/Zoe camp. They're two completely different types of women.
If I were to group them, it would be Zoe/Kaylee vs. Inara/River.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Really?
I'd say that Zoe and Inara are the most conventionally beautiful, while Kaylee and River are both not particularly attractive compared to regular women, but have an allure that overcomes their physical handicap.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Zoe and Inara are both powerful, forceful personalities and Kaylee and River are both more submissive (or, in River's case, damaged). They would naturally attract a guy who likes typical gender roles (as a protector, for instance), while Zoe/Inara would attract guys who are drawn to strong-willed women.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I would think that there's a clear divide between the Kaylee/River camp and the Inara/Zoe camp. They're two completely different types of women.
If I were to group them, it would be Zoe/Kaylee vs. Inara/River.
That's interesting. What do you see them as having in common that would make you pair them that way?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Wait, are we unfairly rating them as their characters, or unfairly rating them as the actresses?
Summer is not River. Jewel is not Kaylee. There are certainly elements of the actresses in the characters, but the women themselves are much, much more than what they portray.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Wait, are we unfairly rating them as their characters, or unfairly rating them as the actresses?
Yes
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part
Oh, please. Angel was all about Cordelia and Fred.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I find both Zoe and Kaylee more attractive than either River or Inara.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I don't know about that. I'm probably as far from a gender role traditionalist as you'll find, and I'm squarely on the Kaylee and River side of the fence. "Submissive" isn't exactly the word I'd use, either. I wouldn't consider Kaylee "submissive," certainly. And River is more "damaged" than "submissive." And when she gets past the damage, she becomes what folks call "bad ass."
Anyway. "Dollhouse." Yay!
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Both Kaylee and River act in more stereotypical feminine ways.
Kaylee is afraid of guns and Captain Mal wouldn't have it any other way. River is constantly being protected by her brother.
Zoe and Inara do the saving, not the being-saved.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
I was unfairly rating them as actresses, although I think if you asked Jewel and Summer they would agree that my ratings were fair and unbiased. Assuming they didn't object to the entire process and beat me up.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:River is more "damaged" than "submissive." And when she gets past the damage, she becomes what folks call "bad ass."
No way - she's got a great...
er, was that out loud?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: No way - she's got a great...
Q. F. T. Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Just to throw a spanner into the works, I have yet a different take. Inara and River are both gracile. However, Inara is mature and gracile while River is immature and gracile. Kaylee is the metaphorical girl next door, not particularly gracile and immature as well.
Arguably, Zoe is far and away the most mature. She's also well, a big woman. (compared to the rest at least). She's kind of a class unto herself.
Since I'm Asian and young (or immature, depending on your perspective), I'd naturally be pre-disposed toward the more gracile and more immature women in the group. Zoe would take a huge penalty under this kind of scheme ... so I was a bit surprised (although I should not have been) by the slant towards Zoe on this board.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:River is constantly being protected by her brother.
Except for that time when she killed three guys in three seconds. And then there was the time when she, you know, killed an entire army of Reavers with her bare hands and feet. Could Simon do either of those things? "Pffshaw*, didn't think so.
Also, she can (maybe) kill you with her brain.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Yeah - except for that time. Two unexpected 90-second sequences do not counterbalance 18 episodes and most of a movie of being protected by Simon.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:River is more "damaged" than "submissive." And when she gets past the damage, she becomes what folks call "bad ass."
No way - she's got a great...
er, was that out loud?
Hah, touche. I admit that River/ Summer didn't do much for me until "Serenity." Between her bad (er, good) assitude and newfound appreciation for, ah, less dowdy outfits, there was some serious re-evaluation happening in my head.
Re: Javert Hugo- Kaylee and River do a fair amount of saving themselves. It's Kaylee's prowess in the engine room that keeps the Serenity crew's collective keisters in the air more than once, and River not only does some buttkickin' in the movie, but also defeats the series' best antagonist in a battle of wits. They're strong women just like all of Joss's other female characters; they just show it differently.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
First, the Reaver scene was hardly unexpected. Second, Simon tried to protect her from a lot of things, most of the time she did her own thing anyway. She's strange and reclusive, not submissive.
Edit: She's also smarter than anyone on the ship, and super sarcastic as well. Both of which I likes.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
I'm not saying they are weak - they are Joss characters, of course they are not.
They are, however, much more likely to relate to the men on the ship in a stereotypical "feminine" manner than either Zoe or Inara (when she's off the job).
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Faith (Dushku) never impressed me-- she was too typical bad girl. I'm just not interested in Arrogant/Broken women, I guess.
Buffy was much more attractive. Buffy had soul; Faith was just spicy frosting.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm rating the characters. I don't know the actresses (having never seen even one of them in any single other venture).
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Avatar300: She's strange and reclusive, not submissive.
Agreed.
But I was speaking of Summer, not River, mostly. I am very impressed with her physically. The fight work in Serenity was very well done and took a ton of physical talent. Her ballet background also showed beautifully there. I am also quite impressed with the way she handled the multiple facets of River's character-- she shows a depth, understanding, and sensitivity that most "action heroes" lack and it was an excellent performance (which leaves me wondering why she hasn't gotten signed on to do more other things).
At any rate, yeah, I think she's hot. If you guys don't that's ok... more for me
edit to add: For not dissimilar reasons, Zoe is the most attractive *character* to me-- competence is hot and Zoe *is* competence personified.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
Jim-Me, I agree with everything you said about Summer Glau. She is the reason I'll be watching "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" come January.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Faith (Dushku) never impressed me-- she was too typical bad girl. I'm just not interested in Arrogant/Broken women, I guess.
Buffy was much more attractive. Buffy had soul; Faith was just spicy frosting.
Blasphemy.
It was all about Willow.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part
Oh, please. Angel was all about Cordelia and Fred.
Really? I never really got into the show, and just saw the first couple of discs of the first season (and scattered episodes here and there that just happened to be on), so I'll freely admit that that was largely an assumption on my part.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part
Oh, please. Angel was all about Cordelia and Fred.
Really? I never really got into the show, and just saw the first couple of discs of the first season (and scattered episodes here and there that just happened to be on), so I'll freely admit that that was largely an assumption on my part.
Not really. Angel was an ensemble show with Angel the center-piece much in the same way Buffy was the center of her little Scoobie gang. Although perhaps Buffy was a little more dominant amongst her crew than Angel amongst his.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I didn't know you had a thing for midgets, Pixiest!
But I'm not sure what Willow had to do with the Buffyverse...I'm not seeing the connection.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
*pats scott on the head, gives him a cookie and tells him to run along and play*
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Faith (Dushku) never impressed me-- she was too typical bad girl. I'm just not interested in Arrogant/Broken women, I guess.
Buffy was much more attractive. Buffy had soul; Faith was just spicy frosting.
Blasphemy.
It was all about Willow.
Faith. Definitely Faith. I 'bout died when she did the shower scene in Angel.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:forgoes cookie, eats Pixiest's hand:
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: There are exceptions, of course--Angel on Whedon's part
Oh, please. Angel was all about Cordelia and Fred.
Really? I never really got into the show, and just saw the first couple of discs of the first season (and scattered episodes here and there that just happened to be on), so I'll freely admit that that was largely an assumption on my part.
I was kind of kidding. Angel was only about Cordelia and Fred (and Faith and Justine and even Illyria) as far as I was concerned. And Gwen (Electro Girl). And Eve. And Lilah. They had some great women on that show.
Although just to break the stereotype a bit, my very favoritest character on Angel was Lindsay. I almost went to a con just to hear him sing.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Do you mean Lorne?
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
No, Lorne wasn't the only singer on "Angel." Christian Kane sang on his last episode in Season 2 (the one in which Lindsay gets the evil hand)- at Lorne's bar, actually, strumming an acoustic guitar and singing a folksy ballad. I'm pretty sure it's the only time we see someone sing at the bar who isn't singing karoake. IRL, Kane is the lead singer of an alt country band. He's quite good.
If you include Spike, then there were three fantastic male singers on "Angel" during its fifth season. They should've pulled a "Once More With Feeling" there, too.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Nope. Christian Kane played Lindsey McDonald, an attorney at Crane, Poole and Schmidt. Er, I mean Wolfram and Hart.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Uh... what Tarrsk said.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: :forgoes cookie, eats Pixiest's hand:
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: :forgoes cookie, eats Pixiest's hand:
Don't be a babie, Pixiest! You know that'll only stimulate his appetite!
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
*steals Noemon's hand at attches it to her stump of a left arm*
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
::tries desperately not to cry while eyeing Scott nervously::
::fails::
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
*pats noemon on the head with his own hand*
pobrecito...
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
Somebody mentioned over at the imdb boards that Whedon has a tendency to think that his shows are beyond marketing, and therefore proceeds to give them cutesy titles that aren't necessarily appealing to the crucial 18-36 male audience. For instance, "Firefly." Now compare that title to "Battlestar Galactica." The latter title indicates space action in a way that "Firefly" never could.
"Dollhouse" is yet another cutesy title from Whedon that might might not make the show immediately appealing to certain demographics.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Agreed, the_Somalian. "Dollhouse" still makes me not want to watch it instinctively, and I know what it's about and DO want to watch it. Maybe it's creative, in an in-joke sort of way, but if I saw it on my cable box and didn't know what it was, there's now way I'd give it a look.
Heck, when it comes out I may have forgotten what it is and will probably miss the first season wondering when the new Whedon show is coming out Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I'm hoping Joss follows his pre-Firefly convention and renames the show "Echo," myself. It's short, evocative, and doesn't have the same "Mattel presents: Barbie, the sitcom" feel to it. Not that I expect him to, but from a marketing standpoint, at least, it'd be the smart thing to do. Which is not the same thing as what would be the right thing to do thematically, which is what Joss does best- and what he tends to do even if his marketing folks are screaming bloody murder. See also: "Serenity."
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
See, when I think of Dollhouse, I think of Todd Solondz, which makes me even more excited for the show than I am already.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
I like it because it reminds me of the Henry Ibsen play.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I hope it doesn't involve any Bratz Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I think Dollhouse is a great title. People kvetched about Buffy, too, and they were wrong.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
quote:People kvetched about Buffy, too, and they were wrong.
I don't know. I believe I've had a harder time selling the greatness of Buffy to my friends than I'd have had if it came with a less campy title.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tristan:
quote:People kvetched about Buffy, too, and they were wrong.
I don't know. I believe I've had a harder time selling the greatness of Buffy to my friends than I'd have had if it came with a less campy title.
The title and the premise have kept me from watching Buffy, to this day, probably to my loss.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I think Dollhouse is a great title. People kvetched about Buffy, too, and they were wrong.
Not the same. For one, the title wasn't 'Buffy'. It was 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer'. That's a much better, much more interesting, and much more accurate title than 'Firefly' or 'Dollhouse'.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
People kvetched about Buffy precisely because it was called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." The network actually tried changing it to just "Buffy" several times, but Joss rejected the idea. Again, Joss chooses his titles with great care, and strictly for their thematic value, not for any perceived marketability. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" needed the full title because it encapsulated the show's foundation (both ironically and seriously) in campy horror flicks. Simply titling it "Buffy" would not have that effect.
Unfortunately, the thought behind the full title only really makes sense if you actually watch the show. Newcomers (myself included for a long time) can't tell initially whether the title is meant seriously or not, and veer away because they don't want to watch a campy horror show about vampires. And yes, in doing so, they miss out on some of the best-written television ever produced. But I think it's understandable... especially considering that the advertisements for the show made it seem like 90210 with fangs. Again, the title makes thematic sense. And once you start watching the show, you grow to love it. But it's undeniably crappy from a marketing standpoint.
I suspect the same will be true of "Dollhouse." I actually do like the title as well, and like BtVS, it makes thematic sense based on what we know of the show's plot and setting: the characters are little more than toys to be played with, and put away in the dollhouse when they aren't needed. It's like Toy Story, if Buzz and Woody were brainwashed and stuffed back into their toychest with no chance of escape whenever Andy was done playing. But to someone unfamiliar with Joss and/or the show itself, the first thing that comes to mind is not "intriguing science fiction series with potential for killer drama," but "Barbie and Ken's Love Shack."
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
Dollhouse made me think freaky horror movie. But I may be weird. I think I would be more excited about the show if it wasn't Eliza Dushku. She just doesn't seem that deep of an actress.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I'd like it better if it were titled "Dollhouse: Eliza Dushku Kicking Butt in Sexy Clothes" Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholar: Dollhouse made me think freaky horror movie. But I may be weird. I think I would be more excited about the show if it wasn't Eliza Dushku. She just doesn't seem that deep of an actress.
Wow. I'd consider Eliza one of the best actresses to have appeared on Buffy and Angel, and that's saying quite a lot. Her performance in the Angel episode "Sanctuary" gives me chills every time, particularly the final shot.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
I am trying to remember what I saw her on that made me not like her. On Angel, I liked her.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: I like it because it reminds me of the Henry Ibsen play.
I think you mean Henrik Ibsen.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest:
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Faith (Dushku) never impressed me-- she was too typical bad girl. I'm just not interested in Arrogant/Broken women, I guess.
Buffy was much more attractive. Buffy had soul; Faith was just spicy frosting.
Blasphemy.
It was all about Willow.
Faith. Definitely Faith. I 'bout died when she did the shower scene in Angel.
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