This is topic Cringe worthy answer to a question, and the state of education in our country in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
Besides the sad state of intellect among women and girls who compete in these pageants(this can be a whole conversation in and of itself) and what we consider important to being a pageant winner, the statistic itself is also pretty astounding.
1/5th of americans have no idea where america is? I mean, is this willful ignorance? I don't even know who to blame for this. How do you not know where our country is? It's not that hard to find. I can only imagine how ignorant we are of the geographic location of other countries.
Maybe we should start playing Risk in the geography classroom.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I don't think it's fair to judge the girl based on her performance on this question. She got lost. It happens, especially when people are really nervous.
It seemed to me that she had certain topics that she wanted to hit in her answer and couldn't figure out how to do so with the question asked.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
What polls are these anyways? I know that there are a lot of people who are bad at geography, I have an extremely hard time believing that the problem is that bad.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
i agree that people can freeze up under pressure, and these girls aren't given any time to formulate a response to what I'll admit isn't the kind of question i normally have an answer to sitting at the ready. But really, what does the answer to that question have to do with any countries besides our own?
I mean, how hard would it have been to say something along the lines of, "i don't know, that's an alarming statistic, we probably need to put more emphasis on geography in our education and think of ways to make the information stick in the heads of the children learning it."
regardless, the statistic itself is the scarier part of all this. I just felt the need to post the answer as well, given how awful it was.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
As I've said to the half-dozen emails on this subject in the last two days, I've gotten far dumber answers to simpler questions from people in real life.
And it's not as if these beauty pageant answers are ever real deep.
I think the whole thing is way overblown.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote: Lauren Caitlin Upton may not have won Miss Teen USA but she may be the smartest adolescent in America.
Hard to believe, what with the 18-year-old's brain-dead moment on You Tube – more than seven million hits, if you count the parodies – as she stumbled in the skill-testing portion of last Friday's pageant.
...
By the time this has run through its full news, blog and late-night comedy cycle, more people will have seen this clip than have watched all the beauty pageants on U.S. TV in the past year. She'll be a superstar.
What's more, Upton has already entered the inevitable "redemption" phase of the process, with talk show appearances and high-fives from network TV hosts.
...
Upton inadvertently won by being dumb or, at best, struck dumb.
That's because, if she were smart – but not shrewd – she would have used the platform to pronounce on the sad state of U.S. public education, perhaps even President George W. Bush's No Child Left Behind program.
That would have earned her cheers from some progressives – who would also have trashed her for being in a bimbo contest. But she also would have been Dixie Chicked by the right-wing radio talk show hosts and Fox News types. So, damned if she did, damned if she didn't.
Now, she's just another not-so-dumb blonde waiting to sign the endorsement deals – for Maybelline or even map companies.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: I don't think it's fair to judge the girl based on her performance on this question. She got lost. It happens, especially when people are really nervous.
It seemed to me that she had certain topics that she wanted to hit in her answer and couldn't figure out how to do so with the question asked.
^^ What he said.
As for 1/5 Americans (I wonder what age group sample they used.) being unable...etc, that's ridiculous to me. Risk in geography class is a rockin idea.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
seriously, we'd have no problem with geography after that. Though it might lead to a distorted perception of world politics!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Maybe the rest of the country's teens are brain dead but our own Miss Colorado sure sounded sharp.
represen'
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: As for 1/5 Americans (I wonder what age group sample they used.) being unable...etc, that's ridiculous to me. Risk in geography class is a rockin idea.
Well, it could be accurate if 1/5 of Americans are 7 and under...
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
it would've been really funny if the contestant had broken into a tirade about the legitimacy of polls and statistics and the methods used to obtain them.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: it would've been really funny if the contestant had broken into a tirade about the legitimacy of polls and statistics and the methods used to obtain them.
She would have gotten my vote. Or if she had contrasted it with how many Chinese people can ONLY identify their own country on a map and have trouble identifying anything else.
Or if she had said, "Well to be honest, since world domination is our aim, it seems kinda pointless to talk about where we are now when one day the world will just be one big country called America."
Seriously though, Miss America pageants should have a comedic test of some sort. Humor is such an integral part of our culture I don't think Miss America should be able to just avoid being intentionally funny in some way. They already have a talent show. "So what's your favorite joke?" Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My favorite parts were her constantly saying "as such" and referring to Americans as "U.S. Americans."
But I give her a break, she was probably extremely nervous. And once she joins with Rand McNally to solve the critical absence of cartographic tools for home use in this country, we'll all be set.
Besides, she's very quickly become, or is going to be, famous, and she also happens to be extremely beautiful, so I don't think she'll suffer that much.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Because 1/5th of Americans are babies...
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I think at one point she says "As some", but I swear it sounded like she was starting to say "Osama". Hahaha.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
1/5 of the country sounds about right. When you add up the number of people who
1. drop out of school 2. never went to school 3. are below the poverty line 4. "don't have maps"
1/5 sounds about right. I'm lucky to have grown up in a middle-class white american family. It's easy to understand how a disenfranchised inner-city kid might only understand survival.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
I feel bad for the poor girl. Can you imagine how she must feel right now?
But still, that was the best she could come up with?? I have a feeling that her coaches hammered into her that she should say something about helping other countries and making a better future, regardless of what the question actually asked. Being under so much pressure, she obviously wasn't able to improvise very well, and could only go with what she had practiced. That's my take on it anyway.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
The 1 in 5 statistic is completely bogus. According to a recent study by National Geographic, 94 percent of Americans can find the US on a map (go to page 26).
And people can talk about how her mangled answer was just a matter of being put on the spot in front of all those cameras and whatnot, it seems pretty clear to me that she's pretty inarticulate to begin with. She slurred a lot of her words, and she generates some strange constructions, like "US Americans," "the Iraq," and "like such as." The last one is especially strange. It's a jarring pleonasm I've never heard before, and she seems to stick it in where it makes absolutely no sense.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
Sean Hannity wanted her to say it's because the teachers' unions aren't allowing school districts to do what's necessary to teach kids.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I really wasn't surprised to learn that some of the contestants in a teen beauty pageant aren't fantastic public speakers.
Not surprisingly, they all have way above average looks.
I wonder if there's some selection bias involved.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:I don't think it's fair to judge the girl based on her performance on this question. She got lost. It happens, especially when people are really nervous.
I agree with this. She clearly simply messed up. Her answer wasn't one of idiocy but just being really nervous, misunderstanding what she heard... etc.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Maybe she meant to say "us Americans"? Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I could easily picture the construction 'like such as' developing in high schools across the country, where it would basically always replace 'as in'. Not that it's not grindingly awkward, though.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
My favorite comment so far has been from Peter David:
quote:And it WAS a tough question, because in thirty seconds she had to try and come up with an answer that was fundamentally upbeat and positive because, hey, that's what beauty pagents are all about. If someone asked me that question and I had to come up with an off-the-cuff response, it would be this...
"One fifth? I'm surprised it's that low. On the quiz show "Power of Ten" it was recently revealed that twenty-five percent of surveyed Americans believed that the inventor of the diesel engine was Vin Diesel. The fact is that obesity is not the number one health problem in this country, it's stupidity. A lot of Americans are stupid. Bone dry stupid. Stupid as a box of rocks. They were born stupid, they were stupid in school, and they became stupid grown-ups. And there's enough of them out there to have a considerable impact on this country, because morons are running for high office and morons are voting for them and putting them in there. Americans are oblivious to the rest of the world, and if that were not the case, then maybe our leaders might have listened when the rest of the world said, 'Stay the hell out of Iraq, you morons.' Many Americans have a fundamental arrogance that stems from a basic lack of intellectual curiosity. They don't read. They don't learn. They don't think. They tune out with television or computer games or Ipods and obsess about what Lindsay or Britney or whatever other troubled pop tart is up to rather than caring about things that really matter.
Our educational system needs to be overhauled beyond the test-centric mandates of No Child Left Behind. If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; teach him how to fish and he will feed himself for ever. Students need to be taught HOW to think, not WHAT to think. More money needs to be spent on programs for kids who are already gifted so that those gifts can be fully realized and brought to fruition. We need to remember that the arts enrich a civilization; that science and scientific thinking is not the enemy; that it is more important to care for poor people over here than blow up poor people in other countries.
The fact that one fifth of Americans can't find the country on the map pales beside the likelihood that one fifth of Americans probably couldn't find their own asses with both hands and a flashlight. And that stupidity is going to continue to be a hallmark of our country until we work together to remedy the situation from the top down."
Not an easy thing to sound upbeat about in thirty seconds, is it.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I could easily picture the construction 'like such as' developing in high schools across the country, where it would basically always replace 'as in'. Not that it's not grindingly awkward, though.
Totally unrelated to this thread, but you know what really irritates me? When I say "Have a good day" to someone and they respond "You also."
You ALSO?! How can you say that without feeling like a complete doofus?! It doesn't even roll comfortably off the tongue. Honestly...You ALSO?!
[/rant]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Chris, that was awesome. Not only was it from one of my favorite writers, it put into words my objection to the clip. The poor woman was clearly trying NOT to say "Because they're idiots, obviously!"
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
To nitpick, Jon Boy, the (albeit completely pulled out of thin air) statistic isn't technically refuted by the National Geographic survey which only polled young Americans age 18-24, not all Americans, like the original 1/5th claim.
I haven't been able to find the polls to support the 1/5 claim, yet though.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
I blame this on two things -
First the deplorable state of education, I blame on Multiple-Choice Questions. No need to think or understand, just pick A, B, C, or D. Even if you don't know the answer you've got a 25% chance of getting it right.
Now multiple choice questions have always existed, they do have a valid place in testing, but now days school tests are dominated by them. Even in classes that would have previously never considered using them.
As to the answer of this specific contestant, I think to some extent they all have stock answers like - I want to bring peace to the world, feed the hungry, and give every one a fluffy bunny. Usually the 'stock' answers contain the words 'America', 'Children', and 'Africa'.
Under pressure of the contest, contestants sit down and calculate their answers in advance even if they don't know the questions. When they are stumped by a question, it's always safe to fall back on the key concepts, phrases, and words. I think she managed to squeeze them all in.
Plus, what could she really say that wouldn't make her look bad. 'Well, Americans are idiot'? 'We've got the worst education system in the world'? 'It's because of Bush's All Children Left Behind policies'? It was a tough question, one for which an honest answer would likely have alienated her audience. Consequently she gave a nondescript answer filled with keywords and key concepts that every contestant tries to work into their responses.
All in all, I'm not at all surprised.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I thought my grade school education was all right. Fewer sexual advances between young couples in the hall would've been nice, but that's another thread.
Hobbes Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
She kind of sidestepped the question.
With a little more polish, she has a promising future in politics.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I don't think it's really fair to expect a good answer from an 18 year old on stage when the entire country's education system can't come up with one.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I don't think most people understand how deeply evil that question was.
Upton competing to see who could appeal most broadly to an American audience, as judged by some cabal. In front of national television and a large audience, she was basically asked, "Americans are kind of dumb. Why do you think this is?" Sure, they dressed up the question by referring to some poll that I haven't been able to find. Even newspaper articles haven't referenced this poll. Editorials have been talking about "the fact that 1/5 of Americans can't locate the US" as though it actually IS a fact just because Aimee Teegarden used the phrase "recent polls have shown." If we don't expect trained journalists to think to check this stuff, why should we expect a teenager to do it on the fly?
Here was Upton's dilemma: she was obliged to answer the question, but in doing so, she would be implicitly agreeing that Americans are dumb. Maybe she even thought to question the statistic, but that might have seemed a bit too much like calling the pageant organizers liars.
Instead, she watched herself babble inanities for 30 seconds, and she must have known how bad it sounded. There were bright lights, TV cameras, official judges, a studio audience, AND Mario Lopez's gorgeous ass, all blinding her. They asked her a question, which, besides containing false information, was one mother of a damned-if-you-do. And then, like 18-year-olds (and the rest of us) do occasionally, she babbled. God, what an idiot.
[/rant]
On that note, the Senate Subcommittee on Foreign Relations has just subpoenaed you. Apparently they have some questions regarding whether or not you still beat your wife/children/dog.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: As to the answer of this specific contestant, I think to some extent they all have stock answers like - I want to bring peace to the world, feed the hungry, and give every one a fluffy bunny.
I personally think giving everyone a fluffy bunny would be a great start in feeding the hungry. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:
Tonight! On the Colbert Report.
"I give this country's education system an A, which s good because thats the only letter young Americans know"
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: To nitpick, Jon Boy, the (albeit completely pulled out of thin air) statistic isn't technically refuted by the National Geographic survey which only polled young Americans age 18-24, not all Americans, like the original 1/5th claim.
I haven't been able to find the polls to support the 1/5 claim, yet though.
Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed. The "one in five" claim still reeks of bogosity, of course.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Juxtapose> Excellent point. When you think about it, she actually jumped on the grenade of stupidity to save the country. When posed the question "Are about half of Americans stupid" (whatever, I don't know fractions) she loudly proclaimed, "No, just me!"
What a patriot. :smileywavingamericanflag:
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: The poor woman was clearly trying NOT to say "Because they're idiots, obviously!"
Really? I thought the only thing that was clear about her answer was that she had no idea what she was saying.
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
Bless her heart, it was an absolutely terrible question. Besides being wrong, it's a lame, contrived question with no polite answer.
"Americans are stupid. Explain why."
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
I live in Miami, Florida. Most people might here don't know where America is, even though they can see it from here.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I think you guys are being way too generous. Sure, it was an unfair question. Most people would not have had an idea of what to say to a question like that without any time to think. She was young, and in front of tons of people and cameras and all that. I understand. But seriously, I think Jon Boy has it right:
quote:I thought the only thing that was clear about her answer was that she had no idea what she was saying.
I don't think it's too hard to see the difference between what she said, and what any semi-intelligent person would have said in the same situation, regardless of the difficulty or unfairness of the question.
[ August 31, 2007, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Juxtapose> Excellent point.
Agreed. Juxtapose is greater than the excellent point he just made. Shame on anyone who thinks otherwise.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I can't believe that statistic. Even dumb people get the Weather Channel.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I must be beyond dumb then, because I don't.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Me neither.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Who watches the weather channel?!!1!1
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Who watches the weather channel?!!1!1
*raises hand*
Granted, only when there's hurricanes threatening, but I do watch it if there are significant weather events happening.
Still the point does hold, one can assume that most people have seen their local news channels and seen weather systems moving across maps of the US - I do find it pretty incredible that 1/5 of Americans wouldn't find the US on a world map.
Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
Mark Twain (or somebody) said, “There are lies; damn lies, and statistics.“
And George Carlin said, “Think about how stupid the average person is; now realize half of them are dumber than that.”
And the guy who invented Despair, Inc. said, “None of us is as dumb as all of us.”
I’m not sure why I thought of these quotes, but there they are for what they may be worth. Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
Oops, on further reflection I can see how that third quote can be taken wrong. So I meant it the other way. I didn’t mean it as any reflection on the folks posting on this thread. What I meant was that when the producers and sponsors of these pageants get together to plan these things they ought to have the following poster prominently displayed for all to see:
I’m still trying to figure out what George Carlin said.
[ September 01, 2007, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: Samuel Bush ]
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
I think george carlin meant median not average.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:posted by Strider: I don't think it's too hard to see the difference between what she said, and what any semi-intelligent person would have said in the same situation, regardless of the difficulty or unfairness of the question.
I think you're drastically underestimating exactly how much stress that situation could put someone under.
It took me months of preparation to get to the point where I could deliver a passable impromptu speech in front of three people. And that was with one minute of prep time before delivery. Now scale up that equation several orders of magnitude. As opposed to, say, scaling it down several orders to get to the point where someone can write up a semi-witty quip on an anonymous forum with all the time in the world.
EDIT - I should add that I wasn't pointing at Strider, or anyone in particular, with that last sentence.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I've actually been on both ends of the spectrum. I used to be quite comfortable with giving speeches and dramatic performances. I was the news anchor of our school broadcast, I got As on all my oral assignments. When 8th grade ran its' course, my self esteem however was beat into tatters by a group of kids bent on feeding their insecurities with my suffering. All my "friends" deserted me, and several even joined this group. They got me fired from the news program as many of my former friends were on it and it became clear to the teacher that they would rather hurt me then work with me on the news. 8th grade remains to this day the worst year of my life.
Two years later I still didn't fully realize how much that had effected me, until I was finally called upon to give a presentation in front of the class. As I commenced, and simply assumed the confidence and comfort of public speaking would still be there. I was shocked to find that I stammered on words, and mixed up simplistic sentence structures in my head, with the odd arrangements still being uttered.
It took a rhetoric class, drama classes, and some wonderful friends to get me back to where I used to be.
Now I have no idea where this girl is coming from in terms of her intellectual and speech craft. But her answer falls well within the realms of what intelligent people might state given the right circumstances. She should have just stopped, taken a deep breath, accepted the docked points for losing continuity and tried again. But she opted to just keep going and try to wrap it all together later. and her plan just did not pan out.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Who watches the weather channel?!!1!1
*sigh* I love the Weather Channel. I used to fall asleep watching it during tornado season, while wearing my shoes. I was marginally more neurotic back then.
At any rate, I was kinda joking. But look at how much ignorance is blamed on poverty-stricken kids being forced to sit in their apartment and watch TV all day because the streets aren't safe in their neighborhood. You'd think at some point they'd see the local weather.
But, if you've ever seen this image of the United States, you'll never forget what it looks like again.
edit: fixd
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
quote:Editorials have been talking about "the fact that 1/5 of Americans can't locate the US" as though it actually IS a fact just because Aimee Teegarden used the phrase "recent polls have shown." If we don't expect trained journalists to think to check this stuff, why should we expect a teenager to do it on the fly?
Whoa! This is off-subject, but Aimee Teegarden? She's my cousin!
Guess that stint in Friday Night Lights is paying off for her.
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