We've had threads on bizarre Deathly Hallows theory and we've had ones about buying the book and waiting for the book.
But what is your Deathly Hallows theory?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I want them in print just so I can gloat, or pout.
Tonks dies but Lupin doesn't, Snape is good but dies saving Harry, Neville becomes a teacher at Hogwarts. I have more and will add before the book comes out.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Regulus Black is alive and will meet up with Harry, and Harry will think it's Sirius for a moment but will quickly put that theory to rest as RAB is nothing like Sirius.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
In a long complex twisting and turning of events, Harry will be possessed by Voldemort, but unknown to Harry, he also has the power of possession, and will turn the possession around. It will then be Harry possessing Voldemort.
Harry will then quickly drag Voldemort behind the Veil. As fate would have it, it turns out if you go behind the Veil while possessing someone, it constitutes 'special circumstances', and the individuals in question do not die and are not trapped behind the Veil, AS LONG AS they stay join by possession.
Once Harry realizes this, he will transfer his possession to Sirius, who is also behind the Veil under 'special circumstances', and the two of them will return from behind the Veil leaving Voldemort behind to rot.
You heard it here first. (probably)
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
Harry Potter is actually Satan.
wait... thats not a new one...
shucks, those fundamentalists get me every time.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Harry Potter will not die. That's the first thing. I'm actually kind of surprised that anyone seriously thinks, after reading the first six books, that Rowling would kill Harry.
Snape's deal was that he was in love with Lily Evans. That's why he turned to Dumbledore; out of regret for passing the prophecy on to Voldemort and getting Lily killed. That's also why he hates Harry so much. It isn't just that he looks like James (though that's part of it). But Lily died to save Harry, and that infuriates Snape. He's transfered some of his guilt for her death into blaming Harry for it.
Dumbledore will rise like a phoenix.
And yes, RAB is Regulus Black.
Snape will be one of the two deaths Rowling promised in the final book, and he'll die heroically. The other death will be Neville, and he'll die heroically as well.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I could see a Deatheater attack on Privet drive and Harry decides to save his family. (which would be helped on if Hermione and Ron are there). They go into hiding at Grimmauld place. I think Harry will find out about what RAB (who is Regulus Black) knows- either from him or from his writings or something in Grimmauld place. Petunia will then explain what she knows and then Harry will go to the wedding and then to Godric's Hollow and be all morose and hope to kill Voldemort even more.
After a while Harry will be in the middle of destroying a horcrux when he will be nearly killed by Deatheater(s), but Snape will apparate in and help Harry escape- whether he's seen or not is beyond me.
Snape will then explain everything to Harry- that was between him and Dumbledore. He will then teach Harry occlumency and nonverbal spellcasting.
During the final battle I think Snape will die and either Hermione or Hagrid will die. Peter Pettigrew will somehow save Harry's life- and in the final climactic moment Harry will kill Voldemort but in the process he'll have to sacrifice himself.
Actually I don't think that's very likely (except RAB being Regulus Black and Peter Pettigrew will help Harry in some way)
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Any of you read the hacker post? (if there was a thread on this already, I didn't see it). Wondering what you thought of it if you did.
FG
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Any of you read the hacker post? (if there was a thread on this already, I didn't see it). Wondering what you thought of it if you did.
FG
I couldn't find the post on the page it stated it was to be found on.
edit: Found it, I'm calling it bunk, even if he did indeed hack it, his synopsis of the book makes no sense.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I read a synopsis- I think it's complete crap. It seemed really quite stupid.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Any of you read the hacker post? (if there was a thread on this already, I didn't see it). Wondering what you thought of it if you did.
I read it. It was stupid.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Lisa and all others, I really don't think Rowling promised two deaths and I'm getting sick of the articles that have said she did. The way I read it (and I know at least some others did as well) she killed two people who were not going to die in her outline back when she wrote book 1. She also kept one person alive who she was going to kill back in book 1. I don't think Snape would be someone that changed in that number of years. Lupin vs Tonks could be.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
This just occurred to me.
What if one of the final horcruxes is Moody's eye?
No reason for it, but I would find it amusing.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
Ever since Wormtail got his silver hand I've thought that it would be used to kill a werewolf. I don't think that it will be Lupin. I think Wormtail will switch sides once again and will kill Fenrir Greyback to defend Harry.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Oh yeah, and I also hope that the two misfits of the DA get together at some point, Neville and Luna. That's just make me smile.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Regulus Black is dead. The horcrux was destroyed by the Radio Advertising Bureau*. End of story.
*yep, they're that powerful.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
You know why Harry's not going to die? Because JK Rowling is constantly reminding us that he might. Every time someone says, Will Harry end up with [insert name]? she says, You're assuming I won't kill him! all light-hearted. She's not killing him. There's no way. I would lay any amount of money on it.
However, I am hoping that Percy redeems himself and dies nobly.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I predict some Weasley deaths.
Draco Malfoy will follow Snape's example and reform.
I'm with Fyfe regarding Harry's survival chances.
In keeping with Rowling's views on death and acceptance, Sirius is good and gone forever. The mirror might come back and be useful for something, but I will be disappointed if any connection is made with Sirius.
Snape is going to die. Considering Rowling's feelings for the character, I think he's going to get a great, dramatic send-off.
I don't know about Lupin. I can see him making it out alive, but it would be weird to leave him as the single surviving Marauder (Pettigrew is SOO gone!)
I see a good future for Neville.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Snape and Harry will die. She has to kill Harry to prove she really isn't going to continue the series.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I dunno, I don't think Harry will die. I think, despite it all, she's the "happy ending" type.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I bet (or maybe would just like to see) the war will spill over so that the human nations take notice and join in.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
There'll be a crossover with the Buffy Season Eight comic book, and Willow and Ginny will wind up together.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Willow is more Luna's type.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Just imagine what laser-guided missles would do to some of the different areas- I bet they could hurt Voldy's lair. The wizards so underestimate the muggles I could see all muggles just killing them all.
Probably make some sort of genetic anomaly that the scientists would find and then make a virus that attacks those genes.
I should spread that rumor around on mugglenet or one of those sites- Haha.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Harry will die, or it will be lame.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Harry will die, or it will be lame.
Ditto.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Why would that make it lame? It's too depressing beyond words for a solid good guy to die and evil to win. I hope she doesn't go the route of that director of the movie Dancer in the Dark. He goes out of his way to make his movies end as depressing as humanly possible. Why is that necessary? But, I also hope she doesn't take the opposite route which is straining to make the ending too happy and sunny. A story that is dark, intense and full of the good stuf that makes the stories appealing with a believable ending is what I want. I think the Muggle world will find out about the wizards and that Harry will live, but it will be a painful journey to that end.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I agree. I couldn't imagine evil triumphing. It would be dark and very out of sync in regards to how the other books have ended.
I expect Harry to make it out alive and for Voldemort and his followers to be defeated. But I don't think this means a super-happy, lame ending. There will certainly be alot of loss and carnage because that's how life is sometimes and Rowling is not one to shy away from heavy issues like death and grief.
I think it'll be a bittersweet ending.
I used to think that Rowling would let Harry live but finish off everyone close to him (as seems to be the pattern with his parents, then Sirius, and now Dumbledore.) But that's WAY too depressing to leave him all alone like that. However, I still worry that Ron won't make it out alive. I'm re-reading the books now and its reminding me how much I love Ron's character. I think I'll cry for days if he doesn't make it. Though, it'll be just as bad to see him lose family because with that many Weasleys in the world, they can't all survive.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I never said Voldy would win- just that Harry will die. I think in the final act of killing Voldemort Harry will sacrifice himself.
I think she'd kill off Hermione before Ron.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Hermione and Ron are both going to make it. Ginny too. Don't worry.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
I'm in the camp that is thoroughly convinced Harry will NOT die. I also agree with several of the theories people have mentioned here. I'm a little worried that Hagrid might die. I think Lupin will die by the hand of Pettigrew (solo, what is your reasoning that Pettigrew would ever change sides? I don't see any support for that). I think the trio (Harry, Ron, and Hermione) will all be alive at the end. And I'm with those who believe that Snape is good and will die a heroic death saving Harry.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I am not sure how she is going to work in the love trump card Dumbledore kept talking about. I guess it will have something to do with the “there is no greater love than to lay down your life for someone else” concept. Self preservation is at the core of Voldermort’s character, so he may be vulnerable to self sacrifice. It's something that would not easy come to mind for him because he would assume everyone else thinks similarly.
My prediction is someone will lay down their life to save Harry. Snape seems like the most likely candidate. I also agree Harry will not get out unscathed. Someone close to him will also die in the battle, Ron or Ginny. I think Rowling’s will want to also make the point that evil is not defeated without paying a price.
Not that Harry has been unscathed to this point, His parents, Godfather, and Mentor have all died, but the lose of Ron, Herminie or Ginny would really be on different level. He never really got to spend too much time any of the previously deceased, but the others have been his best friends for 6-7 years.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
*waves hand mysteriously*
It was all the dream of a young man with a snowglobe in his hands.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Harry and Ron and Hermoine apparate into London, where they meet J.K. Rowling.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Ron and Hemoine survive, get married. Ginny and Harry Survive and are a couple. Hagrid survives and wins the admiration of the Russian Giant. All Wesley's survive with the possible exception of one of the twins. Neville proves himself a first rate Auror, but does not survive. (the books are full of people making sacrifices for Harry. Neville, the ultimate underdog hero will be no exception). Snape dies gloriously, and quite heroically. Voldemort dies. Malfoy will betray his father and join the good sides.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Harry and Ron and Hermoine apparate into London, where they meet J.K. Rowling.
...and then travel to Maine and run into Stephen King.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Harry will wake up and discover it was all a dream...
---
Snape will die heroically. Neville won't die though, she'll want to show us how he'll become successful in some job or another. Probably something to do with Herbology. Ron might die. That'll be a real shocker. Dumbledore won't come back but he'll provide some kind of beyond-the-grave help. Harry definitely won't die. Hermione will become a teacher at Hogwarts. Harry might eventually become Headmaster if she shows us that far ahead.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
That's French Giant.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I predict that Harry and Ginny will get back together. Some disagree with me, including Mugglenet, but many of those saying this relationship will not be are overlooking some important things:
The thing Harry has the Voldemort has not is the ability to love. *****
Well, really, that's the most important thing. Other than that, I can't help but notice how carefully she's built this relationship over the years. She made sure not to get them together until Ginny and Harry were properly mature and Ginny ha gotten over her schoolgirl's crush. I also note that Ginny is a powerful witch in her own right and would be an asset to Harry. I don't see her slipping away in the last book and I think if they both live through it, the feelings they still have for one another (they broke up because Harry ha to go after Voldemort -- not because he didn't like her) will reignite.
###
I think one of the great things Rowling has done is to leave me unsure of whether or not Harry will die. I honestly think she could kill him. BUT, I don't think she will. I could be wrong, but I'll go on record saying he'll live and it's in part because she doesn't need to kill him to prove anything -- the fear that he might die is enough.
###
I think Snape was loyal to Dumbledore for a time but turned back to Voldemort in the sixth book. I make no guesses as to how this will play out in the seventh book, although there will definitely be a confrontation between Harry and Snape and Snape will almost certainly die. He might even die saving Harry's life because whatever made him loyal to Dumbledore in the first place still exists somewhere in his two-faced heart.
###
Predicted deaths (and I agree, Rowlin said 2 MORE would die...I have a feeling there will be much slaughter)
1. Voldemort (duh) 2. Snape 3. Mad Eye Moody 4. Neville (heroically) 5. at least one Weasley (hopefully not Ginny)
###
I think Harry will become the new (and permanent) Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher.
Posted by MoonRabbit (Member # 3652) on :
My crazy predictions:
1. Harry's Aunt Violet (or whatever her name is) will come out of the closet as a witch, and will admit that her son Dudley is actually half house-elf. She kept Harry under the stairs because it reminded her of her one true love.
2. Draco, not Harry is the one talked about in the prophecy; "the mark upon him" is the death eater tattoo, not the scar of Harry's head. Dumbledore knew this and spent the past seven years convincing Voldemort and all his followers that it was Harry, to make sure Voldemort would ignore Draco.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
quote:(solo, what is your reasoning that Pettigrew would ever change sides? I don't see any support for that).
Originally from PoA (Pg 427 in my book):
quote:"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... And I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter..... This is magic at its deepest, its most imprenetrable... But trust me.... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
That's a pretty big section for Rowling to drop a hint- about half a page. At least. That's my reasoning.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
Fyfe
Hermione and Ron are both going to make it. Ginny too. ...
So... er... the next book is X rate then is it?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Surprised no one beat me to it.
In case you don't get it, it's a play on words. Hermoine and Ron are both going to make it.
I never said I was deep.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shawshank:
quote:(solo, what is your reasoning that Pettigrew would ever change sides? I don't see any support for that).
Originally from PoA (Pg 427 in my book):
quote:"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... And I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter..... This is magic at its deepest, its most imprenetrable... But trust me.... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
That's a pretty big section for Rowling to drop a hint- about half a page. At least. That's my reasoning.
It already happened, though. When they resurrected Voldemort, Pettigrew just slashed Harry's arm for the blood, rather than his neck.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by MoonRabbit: 1. Harry's Aunt Violet (or whatever her name is) will come out of the closet as a witch,
Petunia as a witch isn't crazy at all.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Shawshank:
quote:(solo, what is your reasoning that Pettigrew would ever change sides? I don't see any support for that).
Originally from PoA (Pg 427 in my book):
quote:"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... And I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter..... This is magic at its deepest, its most imprenetrable... But trust me.... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
That's a pretty big section for Rowling to drop a hint- about half a page. At least. That's my reasoning.
It already happened, though. When they resurrected Voldemort, Pettigrew just slashed Harry's arm for the blood, rather than his neck.
I disagree. Although not explicitly said, I imagine that Wormtail was ordered not to kill Harry to get his blood. Voldemort duelling Harry in front of his Death Eaters seemed too well planned.
It looks like Dumbledore is suggesting a magical bond...though I could be wrong. If it is magical, I think the question would be, what would happen if Wormtail tried to slit Harry's throat? Having a life-debt isn't as perfect a protection as the one Harry had against Voldy, because Wormtail was able to cut him. But what if he is unable to kill him?
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... And I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter..... This is magic at its deepest, its most imprenetrable... But trust me.... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
A friend of mine reminded me of this part last night. I can picture something happening where Pettigrew makes up his life debt to Harry at a crucial moment in Deathly Hallows, but I still don't think he'll ever "switch sides." He's too cowardly.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Voldemort's whole plan in GoF was to be resurrected and then kill Harry in the duel. If Pettigrew killed him- I think Voldemort would have killed Pettigrew.
I don't know what event(s) will transpire for Pettigrew to repay his life-debt. But the point is made over and over again that Peter is really repulsed by Voldy.
I don't think he'll choose to switch sides and be spy like Snape- but I could see in the heat of battle getting confused, changing his mind, and saves Harry- maybe by killing someone like Fenrir.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Originally posted by hansenj:
quote:"Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt.... When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... And I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter..... This is magic at its deepest, its most imprenetrable... But trust me.... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
A friend of mine reminded me of this part last night. I can picture something happening where Pettigrew makes up his life debt to Harry at a crucial moment in Deathly Hallows, but I still don't think he'll ever "switch sides." He's too cowardly.
The crucial moment switch is more what I meant. I think Pettigrew will die either during or right after this moment. I don't think he will switch sides in the sense of working with the good guys directly, only momentarily (as Fenrir is about to kill Harry or something along those lines).
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Huh. Interesting! Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
There is no seventh book. With the money Rowling's saved from her previous books and what she's already gotten from presales, she'll be able to disappear forever having pulled off the greatest scam in the 21st century.
Seriously, though, these are excellent predictions. I don't really know what to think. I don't think Harry's going to die, though.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I just read an interesting theory on maybe Florean Fortescue is a descendant of Ravenclaw. It seems to be based around the fact that one of the headmasters in DD's room name is also Fortescue.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
There's a blog that claims to possibly have scans of two pages from Deathly Hallows. I strongly doubt that they are real, but in case they are:
Rowling's a better writer than that. It reads like fan fiction. Plus, bad commas.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I think I might believe the top one but not the bottom one. I'm not saying I actually think it is, but I think there is a possibility. And if not that bottom "scan" was a good job on the hoaxsters part.
Posted by Uindy (Member # 9743) on :
Intresting. I don't think that the scan is real. JK Rowling would be having a fit right now if it was.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Look at it - there's no way that isn't wish-fulfillment fan fiction. One page chock full of exposition describing the fate of Snape, Snape's motives, Harry's feelings about him, all in banal, badly-written language?
quote: "It hurts anyway, though," he sobbed. "That's perfectly fine." "It's weird but I feel guilty. I feel guilty that I never listened to him or I never took him seriously in a good way."
Really? Guilty that he never listened to Snape? Guilty that he never took Snape seriously? Is this referring to an entirely different series? Harry and Snape's relationship has a great deal of nuance, but Snape telling Harry things that Harry refuses to seriously consider is NOT one of the wrinkles. How could anyway think that's Rowling? Besides the bad grammar, she should be insulted that people would even consider it possible that she'd give Harry such cliched dialogue.
Also, who the heck is Rimilus? There is no Rimilus in the Potterverse - my guess is someone meant it to be Remus Lupin, but didn't even get the name right. There is a Regulus Black, but Harry wouldn't be having this kind of conversation with R.A.B.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Again, I don't really think it is real, but I do think it's possible. Rimilus could be the mysterious RAB who isn't Regulus. We don't know, and I'm not ready to rule it out or believe it.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by MoonRabbit: 1. Harry's Aunt Violet (or whatever her name is) will come out of the closet as a witch,
Petunia as a witch isn't crazy at all.
Not crazy but alas, already debunked by JK Rowling herself -- a long time ago. It was actually a theory of mine from the very first book when she had her jealous explosion. (BTW, it's Petunia.)
I have been wondering if Dudley will show some magic powers, though. I remember Rowling saying that one character who had not shown magic powers before would, in a very unusual situation, do magic. I've been thinking it's either Dudley (because, after all, he's tied to the same bloodline as Harry) or Filch (whose been trying for years).
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
She said late in life, not just past 11. I don't think it will be Dudley, I think it will be Filch, Figg, or a new charecter.
I can't find where JK debunked that Petunia is a Witch, she has said she's not a Squib. I think she might be an actual witch with skills who either didn't go to hogwarts at all, didn't go for long, or went and didn't tell her husband.
Posted by heifertipper (Member # 10612) on :
I don't remember her debunking the witch theory, I definately remember her saying Petunia wasn't a squib. I am not sure why people thought she was a squib since she is not from a magical family to begin with. Her not being able to do magic would just make her a muggle. I think it would make sense if she was a witch who was expelled like Hagrid, and got her magic taken away. It would explain why she is so bitter about the magical world and why she hates Harry so much.
I agree with everyone who believes Snape will go out heroically by saving Harry. I think this will probably be one of the biggest scenes in the book. Snape is good or J.K. has been misleading us horribly.
I think at least one of the Weasly's will die, perhaps Percy will die redeeming himself.
I also think Kreacher has one of the Horcrux's hidden in his stash of crap, given to him by Regelus.
I like the idea of Wormtail using his silver hand to kill Greyback but it could also get Lupin. Though J.K. did elude to the idea that he could come in handy in the future, and killing Lupin does not benefit Harry.
I do not think she will kill Harry, but I think she would kill him before she would kill Ron or Hermione. The spoilers by the hacker are a load, his grammar is bad and if he wanted us to believe him he should have posted an excerpt. Who gave him publicity anyway? How can you sell a Horcrux? I was under the impression that only a really powerful wizard could create them and you can't mass market soul splitting.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Apparently Keith Olbermann had a theory today that is thought out using the rules and structure of drama and rules of business.
quote: Harry's scar is a horcrux. As Harry prepares to kill himself to make Voldemort mortal, Snape appears and tells him that there's a way to get rid of the horcrux and still survive; however, he must give up his magical powers.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Heifertipper, I think the people who think Petunia is a squib think she is lying that her family is not magical, and they were.
And where do you get the selling of the horcrux, I read both of those pages and can't find it. But I think it might mean that someone sold the finished horcrux, like someone sold the real RAB locket later.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Posted by heifertipper (Member # 10612) on :
breyerchic04,
Sorry I should have been more specific. The Horcrux selling theory comes from that spoiler guy (Gabriel) who has been running rampant on the Internet for the last couple of days. He said that Book 7 ends with Draco selling Horcrux's. I'm not sure I should post what else he said since there is a miniscule chance it could be true.
So you mean selling Voldemort's horcrux's? I took it to mean he was actually selling the product, like the twins sell jokes. But it could definately mean things like the locket.
Was there ever a hint that Lily was a full blood wizard? If she was, why would she lie. It would have saved her a lot of grief at school. I doubt Snape was the only one who called her a mudblood.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Oh, I hadn't even looked at the spoiler guy's stuff, just saw the scans linked here. That doesn't sound good. But yes I mean selling Voldemort's horcrux's, which is a bit more possible, I once read a theory that the one order member (the one who sold the shotty cauldrons) sold the locket out of Sirius's house.
I had forgotten that Snape called Lilly a mudblood, that kind of blows that theory. If that wouldnt' have happened I would have believed that most people who didn't know her homelife thought she was a muggleborn because they didn't know her and she had no witch siblings (you know that still is possible, that Snape assumed Mudblood). It still is possible Petunia was kicked out of hogwarts.
Posted by heifertipper (Member # 10612) on :
Now that you mention it, do we even know anything at all about Lilly's or James' families? I can't remember anything specific. I think we know more about Neville's family tree. It is possible Snape assumed, but I guess if I were Lily and I wasn't a mudblood, I would have definately put an end to that rumor. Nobody likes to be called names, especially in school, and I doubt she would have stood for it if it wasn't true.
Yeah if you actually see the spoiler don't waste your time reading it. It is crap and will just make you angry.
I wonder what would be the point of selling Voldemorts Horcrux's after he is dead? Nostalgia? Then again people buy Brad Pitt's leftovers so that is not such a big stretch.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
As I reread the Half-Blood Prince,and Dumbledore was showing Harry about Voldemort's childhood, I could see Harry feeling a bit sorry for Voldemort. I wonder if that has something to do with Harry's ability to love comnpared to Voldemort's inability. Maybe Harry is able to reach deep down inside himself and find a love for the "child that was" inside Voldemort and that somehow leads to Voldemort's redemption (ala Star Wars's redeption of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader).
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: She said late in life, not just past 11. I don't think it will be Dudley, I think it will be Filch, Figg, or a new charecter.
I can't find where JK debunked that Petunia is a Witch, she has said she's not a Squib. I think she might be an actual witch with skills who either didn't go to hogwarts at all, didn't go for long, or went and didn't tell her husband.
From JK Rowling's own web site (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/rumours_view.cfm?id=37):
quote:Section: Rumours Aunt Petunia will start exhibiting magical tendencies
No, she won't. Aunt Petunia has never performed magic, nor will she ever be able to do so.
As for the "late in life" thing -- we've had this discussion here before. Late in life can be a relative thing. Most wizards begin exhibiting magical powers at a very young age -- well before they go to Hogwarts. Harry did things when he was scared and angry as a very small child. Compared to that, 17 is pretty late in life. Still, there are lots of candidates, not just Dudley, so we will just have to see. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
No, I don't think I can explain it. Well, maybe a little, but I don't expect it to be convincing to anybody who disagrees with me.
Rowling could prove me wrong. It's not like I've decided that it is a cop-out if he gets to live happily-ever-after.
It's a prediction. I predict that after all the hints that Harry's and Voldemort's lives are inextrictably linked, that Harry must die in order to defeat Voldemort, if at the end she changes the apparent rules so that it's not necessary, it will feel cheap and unsatisfying.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: That is the only way I can imagine for Harry to survive and it not to be a lame cop-out -- he has to completely and permanently lose all magical powers.
Could you please explain this? Why would Harry living happily ever after, powers and all, be a cop-out?
No, I don't think I can explain it. Well, maybe a little, but I don't expect it to be convincing to anybody who disagrees with me.
Rowling could prove me wrong. It's not like I've decided that it is a cop-out if he gets to live happily-ever-after.
It's a prediction. I predict that after all the hints that Harry's and Voldemort's lives are inextrictably linked, that Harry must die in order to defeat Voldemort, if at the end she changes the apparent rules so that it's not necessary, it will feel cheap and unsatisfying.
I don't entirely disagree with you, because I definitely think Rowling has set us up for the possibility that Harry will die. I don't think she's made a rule about it yet, though. She says Harry defeats Voldemort through love and I'm still not clear on how that will play out. I'm also still not clear on how him losing his magic powers would have anything to do with..well, anything. I guess what I'm hearing you say is that Harry won't just be able to dance through this last book with no long-term consequences and I totally hear you on that. I'm just not sure that giving up his magic powers is quite the right fit for this sacrifice.
I think the cop-out would be that Harry gets through this unscathed. At the least, he will have to lose someone he cares about deeply. I'm not convinced that Ron or Hermoine will come through this unscathed. That may well be the sacrifice he pays for this. Or something else.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I'm just not sure that giving up his magic powers is quite the right fit for this sacrifice.
Yeah, I think you're right. But I think it needs to be something of that degree.
Imagine if Harry lost his powers and had to live as a muggle -- it would be almost worse than dying. His only happiness has come from his magical life. Being forced back into the muggle world would be a fate worse than death for Harry.
I don't think that losing a beloved friend rises to that level of loss.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think better of Harry (and of his friends and the wizarding world in general) than that.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Better than what?
I'm saying that losing a beloved friend would not, should not be a fate worse than death for Harry. Otherwise, I'd be really disappointed in him.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
But losing a beloved friend IS a fate worse than death... It's agonizingly painful. It would be devastating for him to lose all of his parental figures and the most supportive friends he's ever had...
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I think Porter was comparing the lose of ONE friend to the lose of all his powers.
Yes killing off everyone Harry knows and cares about would be pretty much similar to killing Harry himself.
I think Porter is merely pointing out that he made all these friends and new family by virtue of his magic powers. If he lost all his powers most of that world he has come to love would be closed to him forever.
Think the occasional official visit that Fudge makes to the Prime Minister of England. That is close to what Harry would be limited to if he lost all his powers and returned to the Muggle world. It's a reasonable argument to say that such a fate would be worse then death for Harry.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My point is that I think better of his friends and the wizarding world than to imagine that they would cut off all contact with him if he became a Squib. Filch has no powers and he lives at Hogwarts. Why is Harry being shoved out in the cold and the whole wizarding world - including the Weasleys - pretending to never know him? It's not only unlikely, it defies logic and the story as it is told so far.
Also, I think better of Harry than to imagine that he is more attached to his wand than to Ron or Hermione, and that he'd prefer one of them dieing over no longer being able to do magic.
Not only that, but it goes all against the whole theme of the series - that the most powerful magic is love.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Do you think Harry could just live at the Weasleys home and do nothing because he has no powers?
I'm not saying the would avoid him or ignore him, but things would be VERY different. Actually it would be a very Roald Dahlish if Harry loses his powers but his friends continue to visit him frequently in disguise.
Nobody is saying Harry would PREFER to keep his powers over say Ron and Hermione living. But do you think Harry could never get over the loss of say Hermione? Could he get over the loss of losing all his powers which have become a core of his identity? I think the later for Harry would be more difficult then the former, and that does not make Harry a bad person considering his background and past history.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Right -Raold Dahlish, not Rowling. That's only plausible if the story is written by a completely different writer with a completely different style and completely different body of work.
Why would they have to be in disguise to visit them? Hagrid isn't allowed to do magic, and he's not exiled to Muggledom. It's not only implausible story-wise, it doesn't fit with the rules of the wizarding world as we know it.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Hagrid can't just hang out in the muggle world, he would raise more then a few eye brows.
Look I'm not even arguing that its assumed Harry will lose his powers. I'm simply saying that losing them would be a fate possibly worse then death IMO. Without powers Harry simply does not have the same intimacy with the world of wizardry that he currently enjoys. He certainly could not teach at hogwarts without powers.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm saying that the projected consequences of Harry losing his powers do not match the story so far, the rules of the wizarding world, or any precedent set by Rowling.
Hagrid teaches at Hogwarts without powers. Trelawney teaches at Hogwarts and her only qualification is unreliable and unknown to herself. Professor Binn teaches at Hogwarts and he's dead.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I don't mean that losing his powers would necessarily be a fate worse than death, but it could be contrived to be so. I agree that it doesn't really match up with what we've seen so far, but I think a plausible reason could be created.
My real point is that, given all the foreboding hints that Harry must die to defeat Voldemort, anything easier than death will seem too easy.
BTW, I'm going through the books again. I've only read each one of them once before.
I'm astounded at how much fun the first book was. I thoroughly enjoyed myself reading it.
I'm just afraid that reading all seven in a row will feel like watching the movie Groundhog Day multiple times in a row. We'll see.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Hagrid teaches at Hogwarts without powers. Trelawney teaches at Hogwarts and her only qualification is unreliable and unknown to herself. Professor Binn teaches at Hogwarts and he's dead.
Hagrid has magical powers. He used magic several times when he went to pick up Harry at the beginning of book 1. In fact, he said that the reason he was so excited to go get Harry is that he was permitted to use magic while doing so.
Trelawney, at the very least, is a witch.
Are there any examples of ghosts using magical powers (besides, of course, walking around and talking while being dead)?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think you're reading things in our posts that aren't there.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I know Hagrid has them, but he isn't supposed. He is officially not supposed to, but still, he is officially employed at and teaches at Hogwarts.
Trelawney is a witch. But she teaches divination, and she's crappy at it.
Nope. Not that I'm aware of.
The problem with the theory is:
1) There is no precedent - no one has become a Squib after having had magic. Ordered to not practice it, yes, but lost the ability? No.
2) What reason or cause would there be to lose powers? It isn't like a spleen and isn't that easy to lose or gain - the prevelance of Squibs proves that and if it was that easy to take away, someone would have tried it on Voldemort. It hasn't been set up and it isn't possible within the rules of the world. You might as well say that in order to defeat Voldemort, Harry must enlist the help of space aliens.
3) Even if the losing powers thing was possible, the subsequent isolation makes no sense - plenty of non-magical people participate in the wizarding world.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
Well choices that involve the lives of thousands of other humans would only be difficult to make if a huge amount of self sacrifice was involved in the choice.
If right did not prevail by overcoming extraordinary adversity it would seem kinda stupid that evil *almost* never prevails in books.
edited to add the "almost" qualifier.
[ June 26, 2007, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:The problem with the theory is:
I don't think anybody here actually holds that theory.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm with those that say a happy ending will feel very unsatisfying. If that makes me someone with a dark worldview, then I guess I'm not very surprised. I love Shakespearean tragedies after all.
I haven't kept up with the rumor mill or read any of Rowling's responses, so this may be out of date, but I have always wondered if Neville wasn't going to be the one who really destroyed Voldemort - dying in the process, of course because that fits with my love of dark, tragic endings. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Belle: Killing the last scarred, yet good remnant of the Longbottom family seems beyond even Rowling's willingness to harm her characters.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
Well choices that involve the lives of thousands of other humans would only be difficult to make if a huge amount of self sacrifice was involved in the choice.
If right did not prevail by overcoming extraordinary adversity it would seem kinda stupid that evil *almost* never prevails in books.
edited to add the "almost" qualifier.
Exactly!
This isn't a happily ever after tale. It's been steadily growing in darkness and terror. While I even expect the last book to have comic relief, I do not expect the light-hearted, fun read that was the first book. This isn't a carefree romp through a series of challenges to outwit Voldemort at the end. Wit and cunning won't defeat Voldemort. Neither will power. Even Dumbledore, witty and powerful, never defeated him.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Too many people have died already for it to be a happy ending, even if the core all survive.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Well spoken, BB and Christine.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yeah, I'm with m_p_h. It would be incredibly unsatisfying for me, if every core character survives without undergoing something incredibly painful. I don't expect the Weasley clan to survive intact, one or more of the brothers or Ginny needs to die. Hermione should lose something dear to her, since we don't know her family well, maybe it would be her and Ron getting split apart.
Harry has lost two mentors and father-figures, so his loss is going to be extreme, either his power, his life, or something else that tears him up.
Ginny dying fulfills the tragedy for both Harry and Ron, and maybe if in Ron's grief he turns away from Hermione and she loses him, that would work.
And no, I'm not a sadist, it's just in the tradition of great heroic epic stories, there has to be great loss and sacrifice or it just doesn't mean anything. All this build up for seven books will be pointless if it ends in some stupid, happy-bunny just tell voldemort you love him and all will be well type of ending.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I just had this thought, how exactly is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort? The only killing spell we know of requires hate to use, and as far as I am concerned that option is not on the table for Harry the champion of love.
Does that mean then that Harry will outwit Voldemort into getting himself killed?
I guess there is still the option of Harry allowing himself to die so that Voldemort is rendered killable. I am not sure I like either possibility.
Is there another way?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
The prophecy says, "Neither can live while the other survives." It does not explicitly say that Harry has to kill Voldemort or vice versa. That leaves other possibilities, although I'm not sure exactly what they are.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Some of you have a very dark worldview. As though tragedy is the only thing that gives life meaning. <shudder>
True... What gives life meaning is... well, love... and good things like that. The books have a lot of that in it too. All the characters are already scared in their own way, even Snape is. The whole series equals love, loss, betrayal from the very beginning, even under all the happy candy coated stuff in the beginning because it was seen through the eyes of an innocent optimistic child.
quote: Yeah, I'm with m_p_h. It would be incredibly unsatisfying for me, if every core character survives without undergoing something incredibly painful. I don't expect the Weasley clan to survive intact, one or more of the brothers or Ginny needs to die. Hermione should lose something dear to her, since we don't know her family well, maybe it would be her and Ron getting split apart.
Harry has lost two mentors and father-figures, so his loss is going to be extreme, either his power, his life, or something else that tears him up.
Ginny dying fulfills the tragedy for both Harry and Ron, and maybe if in Ron's grief he turns away from Hermione and she loses him, that would work.
And no, I'm not a sadist, it's just in the tradition of great heroic epic stories, there has to be great loss and sacrifice or it just doesn't mean anything. All this build up for seven books will be pointless if it ends in some stupid, happy-bunny just tell voldemort you love him and all will be well type of ending.
Just OUCH! Hope is like cream and sugar in coffee. I got to have some of it, otherwise there's no point to drinking that black bitter stuff. I don't think I want all is happy and good McDonald's Milkshake, but i sure as heck don't want to sit and read 784 pages of pure utter heartrenching agony! There's got to be a middle ground between the two! Don't you guys like Harry? He's such a nice guy. I don't want him to be destroyed. He's already been traumatized for life from losing his parents, his godfather, his mentor, must he lose his love, his friends, his powers and everything that makes him him? He doesn't deserve that, Voldermort does, as Voldermort is the one that is evil here! gah! Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Too many people have died already for it to be a happy ending, even if the core all survive.
Exactly. There's been sacrifice and grief aplenty already.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
It can't require less, by definition. You're looking at the sacrifices that've already been made as things that happened and are over. All of them have led to the eventual end of this story, and if no other losses were to happen at all, those which already have will still exist.
The idea that they have to match and exceed everything that's already happened seems a little creepy, is all.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
And all they've been able to do is slow Voldemort down.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
The idea that they have to match and exceed everything that's already happened seems a little creepy, is all.
True, the next book will already be hellish for the trio. They have to find the remaining Horcruxes and judging by the state of Dumbledore's arm and him later in book Six that will not be easy.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yeah, if it's something simple, and easy and cheap, then all those deaths will be for nothing. All the readers will say "Well, gee, why didn't they do that in the beginning?"
I do like Harry. I've read every book, I've pre-ordered this one, and I enjoy Rowling's writing. It's just that I think the ending, the destruction of Voldmort has got to be costly precisely because of all the sacrifices so far. Those have to be meaningful, and there has to be a cost.
Frodo paid a high cost for his victory. So did Ender. Harry will too, I think. I believe the story so far calls for it. I don't think "Well look what he's suffered so far" cuts it, either. I think more is required, otherwise the victory is not as great.
Of course, Rowling may write a happy bunny ending. If so, I'll be disappointed but it sounds like many of her other fans won't be. Either way, she'll still be the big winner, because we'll all still have bought the book. I don't think my disappointment will keep her from cashing her check. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Another thought -- think of how hard it's been, and how much as been sacrificed to slow down Voldemort so far. For his defeat to require less not only wouldn't make sense, it would feel like cheating.
It can't require less, by definition. You're looking at the sacrifices that've already been made as things that happened and are over. All of them have led to the eventual end of this story, and if no other losses were to happen at all, those which already have will still exist.
The idea that they have to match and exceed everything that's already happened seems a little creepy, is all.
I'd agree if we were talking about real life. Life is not governed by poetic justice. But do you agree that if in book 7 Harry and Co trounce all over Voldemort, Ron and Hermione hook up, Harry and Ginny get together and start birthing babies, Tonks and Remus get together, and the Dursleys decide that they have been wrong about Harry all along and ask for his forgiveness which he promptly gives, that something would feel amiss?
I don't think anyone wishes Harry any ill will. But as a reader I would feel robbed if Harry has already sacrificed all he will be required to sacrifice in order to vanquish Voldemort. Heck if Voldemort slips on some stairs and breaks his neck and bleeds to death in the first chapter I really doubt Harry would not be upset that Voldemort had been defeated so anticlimactically. I'm sure he'd think, "Something about that just does not seem right."
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: Yeah, if it's something simple, and easy and cheap, then all those deaths will be for nothing. All the readers will say "Well, gee, why didn't they do that in the beginning?"
Things are cumulative. And no one is talking about "simple and easy", but if the only thing that isn't cheap is horrible suffering and grief and anguish, then yes, I'm hoping for that sort of cheap. Because I don't think that's cheap at all.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The idea that they have to match and exceed everything that's already happened seems a little creepy, is all.
I'd agree if we were talking about real life. Life is not governed by poetic justice. But do you agree that if in book 7 Harry and Co trounce all over Voldemort, Ron and Hermione hook up, Harry and Ginny get together and start birthing babies, Tonks and Remus get together, and the Dursleys decide that they have been wrong about Harry all along and ask for his forgiveness which he promptly gives, that something would feel amiss?
I think that's a false dichotomy. It's not either "kill Voldemort while whistling a happy tune" or "barely defeat Voldemort while enduring the worst pain and suffering a person can survive".
It can be a major challenge, with difficult choices and pain involved, but without ripping people apart and spitting on the charred remains.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I don't think Harry will lose his powers- but there is some precedent for it actually.
HBP Chapter 12 (pg 262 in my book):
[Dumbledore is talking about Merope, Voldemort's mother]
quote: "But it is my belief- I am guessing again, but I am sure I am right- that when her husband abandoned her, Merope stopped using magic. I do not think that she wanted to be a witch any longer. Of course, it is also possible that her unequited love and the attendant despair sapped her of her powers; that can happen.
I don't think Harry will lose his powers- but it can be seen that the possibility isn't without previous mention. I think either Ron and Hermione will die. Maybe Ginny. Of course that's if Harry doesn't die. I have a feeling he will- and then I don't know who'd die.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:It can be a major challenge, with difficult choices and pain involved, but without ripping people apart and spitting on the charred remains.
OK fair enough. Do you have the time to posit one, perhaps two ways in which Harry would be subjected to difficult choices and pain without death being involved? We already discussed the lose of his magical powers.
edit: and remember these challenges cannot simply be repeats of obstacles he overcame in previous books.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:without ripping people apart and spitting on the charred remains.
Yet again, that is not a fair characterization of what other people are saying.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Belle: Yeah, if it's something simple, and easy and cheap, then all those deaths will be for nothing. All the readers will say "Well, gee, why didn't they do that in the beginning?"
Things are cumulative. And no one is talking about "simple and easy", but if the only thing that isn't cheap is horrible suffering and grief and anguish, then yes, I'm hoping for that sort of cheap. Because I don't think that's cheap at all.
Yes, they are a bit. Harry has already endured much -- the loss of his mother, father, a father-figure, and a mentor. None of this has been easy for him. I'm not sure that what happens in the last book has to outdo all of that, but it definitely has to take into account that many older, wise, and more powerful wizards have already died in this fight and that Harry can't just be the one to happen to get off a killing curse.
In a way, you can't outdo all that cumulative damage in one fell swoop. Even Harry's death wouldn't outdo all the rest because he's just one person, however much we have come to love him.
I don't know that there needs to be a disagreement here...Harry has endured much, sacrificed much, and yet in the last book there will be more and he will lose more.
Three and a half weeks! I'm starting a countdown. BTW, I'm doing a self-imposed media blackout until I finish the book so no one can filter any spoilers through. Since my husband will be reading this aloud to me, this means no TV, radio, or internet for maybe half a week. (That's how long the last one took.)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I'm not sure that what happens in the last book has to outdo all of that
Yeah, I think you're right.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I think I like the theory that the wizarding world will become well known and no longer a secret better than Harry will no longer be able to do magic. It just sits better with me.
Christine, I'm also doing a media blackout until I finish the book, though hopefully I can have it done by the end of Sunday.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Since my husband will be reading this aloud to me, this means no TV, radio, or internet for maybe half a week. (That's how long the last one took.)
My wife and I read it out loud as well. We got Half-Blood Prince on the Saturday morning and were finished it by Tuesday night (and I worked all day on the Monday and Tuesday). I think Order of the Phoenix took us about 5 days.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Something just occurred to me. I'm rereading the series, on OotP, and it just popped into my head. Hagrid is sent to get the giants. They discuss trying to get the goblins on their side.
What about the house elves?
Think about it. One elf, Dobby, was strong enough to throw Lucius Malfoy across a room and cause him to retreat. Somehow their magic is strong enough (or different enough from wizard magic) that they have the ability to apparate inside Hogwarts.
What would an army of house elves...say, from the Hogwarts' kitchen and loyal to the school...do if convinced to unleash their powers against the Deatheaters?
Just a thought.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The problem seems to be one of House Elf mind-set. Even Dobby tends to lapse into his old submissive self-punishing mode from time to time.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
True. But what would happen if they were confronted with an all out attack on the school? The elves, I imagine, are ultimately loyal to the school, the headmaster/mistress and the students. If they witnessed them being attacked, I think the elves would defend them.
So, maybe not an house-elf army. But definitely great potential for defense.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Remember Dobby's speech when he first met Harry in CoS? About how the house elves were treated terribly during Voldemort's reign- and Harry stopped that. So apparently what they normally endure is nothing compared to what they go through when You-Know-Who is in charge. That might also give them motive to fight back?
I'd still think a Death Eater attempt on Privet Drive on Harry's 17th birthday would be quite interesting.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Especially if a Muggle Born Death Eater decides to just shoot Harry, instead of cast a spell. Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Shooting Harry?
Seems too...simple.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'll be satisfied with a happy ending. I think Harry has paid his due.
Thing about Frodo is (whoever brought him up before), he largely got his happy ending. His quest was fulfilled, he was celebrated as one of the greatest heroes of any age of Middle Earth, and all he really lost was a finger. The Shire was rebuilt, and then he got to go to Valinor and be with the Elves, who he really longed to be with all along. Frodo got his happy ending, but at a high cost of personal self sacrifice. I'd be okay with this story ending much as LOTR did. Great destruction, the death of major characters that we loved (Theoden, Gandalf (who later came back), but still keep the core group (the Hobbits/The trio in HP) alive, but older and wiser, to enjoy the fruits of their labors.
I think there will be a lot of heart wrenching deaths in this last book, but I still hope that the three kids survive, and Ginny too. I want to see them live to enjoy the fruits of their labors as well. They've already endured so much pain and sacrifice as it is, how much more does anyone think is really necessary before it's enough?
If it all ends happily ever after, I'll be quite content. And if Harry or one of the trio are killed off, I'll be frankly maybe a little disappointed that after all that effort they still failed to pull it off in the end.
I don't mind tradgedies, as I consider the ending of Ender's Game to be, a bittersweet victory. But at the same time, I love heroic victories, even at a cost of personal sacrifice, such as LOTR.
I think Harry will still lose people close to him. At least one of the Weasley's will die I think, and I could see Hagrid dying in an attempt to deflect a spell away from Harry, maybe thinking his Giantness will save him, or maybe knowing full well the consequences of his actions. I think losing someome like Hagrid would almost be as bad as losing Sirius or Dumbledore.
I think there's only three or four real candidates for a character who has never done magic: Filch, Petunia, Dudley or the chick who lives across the street from the Dursleys, the Squib who used to babysit Harry. Can anyone even think of any other non-magic user characters that have been mentioned more than once?
Seeing some good theories on this thread though, it'll be interesting to see if any come true.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think there's only three or four real candidates for a character who has never done magic: Filch, Petunia, Dudley or the chick who lives across the street from the Dursleys, the Squib who used to babysit Harry. Can anyone even think of any other non-magic user characters that have been mentioned more than once?
Don't make me go back to JK Rowling's rumor page and REpost the part where Petunia Dursley never has and never will do magic. She's not the one.
The candidates include:
1. Vernon 2. Dudley 3. Filch 4. Mrs. Fig 5. A random muggle we haven't seen yet.
I don't think 5 is likely because that would be terribly uninteresting. I don't think Vernon is likely because he's just too set in his ways and I can't even imagine him trying to do magic. I don't think Mrs. Fig is likely because she has been such a minor character until now and so her finally getting to do magic would still be kind of ho hum.
Filch is definitely a possibility. He's lived around magic and has been trying to do magic his entire life. On the other hand, he's been living around magic and trying to do magic his entire life. I think that would make it a bit odd if he finally succeeded now. I guess he could be more frightened or more in need of it than ever before.
My top pick is Dudley Dursley. He's a muggle, but there is clearly magic in his bloodline. He's also in a position where he probably never even tried to do magic before. I also imagine (although it is not explicitly in the story) that much like Petunia/Lily, he is a bit jealous of Harry, deep down inside. Finally, I think it would be very dramatic and ironic if it were Dudley, more so than any other character, because of the way his parents have treated Harry. Drama and irony make good stories, so if it were me, I'd definitely make it Dudley.
Of course, it's not me, so I'm leaving room that it might also be Filch.
Anything else would be disappointing. (Well, except Vernon -- he would just be surprising.)
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I kind of want to see Voldermort suffer instead... I reckon it hurts to split your soul 7 ways, but not nearly enough.
Posted by Uindy (Member # 9743) on :
Dudley doing magic that would be intresting. Dudley is afrid of magic. The shock of him being able to do it would kill him.
What about Hagrid's brother Garwip(sp?). Can giants do magic? That would be an intresting twist. I'm not sure how that would be worked in the plot though.
I think that it will be Filch or Mrs. Fig.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pretty sure giants can't do magic, but they are VERY resistant to it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Especially if a Muggle Born Death Eater decides to just shoot Harry, instead of cast a spell.
In regards to killing wizards using muggle methods, here's a quote from book 1:
quote:"CAR CRASH!" roared Hagrid, jumping up so angrily that the Dursleys scuttled back to their corner. "How could a car crash kill Lily an' James Potter?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
It could be that Hagrid meant in the case of a car crash, James & Lily would've realized "Hey, our car's gonna crash" and apparated away or something.
I'm not sure that would apply to being shot in the back. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: It could be that Hagrid meant in the case of a car crash, James & Lily would've realized "Hey, our car's gonna crash" and apparated away or something.
I'm not sure that would apply to being shot in the back.
Within the Potterverse it would pretty easy for Rowling to say, "Oh hey here's a spell that shields muggle bullets" Or else make bullet wounds easy to treat.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Thing about Frodo is (whoever brought him up before), he largely got his happy ending.
I disagree. Frodo wanted to go home. He loved the Shire and longed to return to that life. He couldn't. He never got to go home again. That is he didn't get to stay home, which is almost worse, he came back to the Shire but learned he couldn't stay. I don't call that a happy ending for Frodo.
He got a peaceful end, by being allowed to die pain free with the elves, but that does not mean it was the end he wanted, and that doesn't make it happy. Aragorn, by and large, got a happy ending - he got the kingdom, he got the girl. But not Frodo.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:It could be that Hagrid meant in the case of a car crash, James & Lily would've realized "Hey, our car's gonna crash" and apparated away or something.
In that case, the answer to Hagrid's question would be a simple "by happening so suddenly that they didn't have a chance to do anything about it."
Of course, expecting that level of internal consistency may be a mistake.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I disagree. Frodo wanted to go home. He loved the Shire and longed to return to that life. He couldn't. He never got to go home again. I don't call that a happy ending for Frodo.
I agree. He was just too broken and damaged by the ring to get the happy ending he wanted. It was very sad.
At least Samwise was able to get that happy ending, but that didn't really make up for it.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Hagrid's never really been the most logical or reliable source of info in the Potterverse to begin with. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Within the Potterverse it would pretty easy for Rowling to say, "Oh hey here's a spell that shields muggle bullets" Or else make bullet wounds easy to treat.
Oh, I have no doubt there are such things, I just think the Wizard or Witch would still need advance warning that a Muggle instead of Magical method of killing was going to be used.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
For anyone who is curious what JK Rowling has said or not said. No true spoilers since I'm sure more than this has been said in this thread. Debunked Rumors Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
In general, I'd place a higher level of reliability on Hagrid's statements about what that world is like world than reader's speculations or expressions of what they want to happen. Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Seems to me that Harry defeating Voldemort would be a horcrux countdown. How many horcruxes are there? And how many have been destroyed?
As to the suffering Harry will go through, each horcrux may require a sacrifice. Look at Dumbledore's hand, and the potion he had to drink to get the locket. (although destroying the diary with basilisk venom was relatively pain free. Will acromantula venom work equally well?)
So what other horcruxes are there? The locket obviously. Hufflepuff's cup? Nagini? Didn't Rowling say we could find all of the HOrcruxes if we read the books carefully?
Other clues: Harry's blood is valuable. This has to have something to do with the look of triumph in Dumbledore's eye, but once again Dumbledore doesn't give Harry enough information to work with. Did Dumbledore leave Harry all the information he needs? Maybe a series of memories in the Pensieve?
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
And remember in HBP where they have to make a blood sacrifice. DD again mentions that Harry's blood is more valuable.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: In general, I'd place a higher level of reliability on Hagrid's statements about what that world is like world than reader's speculations or expressions of what they want to happen.
On a guy who considers hippogriffs and dragons to be "cute"? Yeah. Totally reliable.
Where did I say I wanted this to happen? I'm just saying it's a possibility they haven't shown yet.
To be fair, Prisoner of Azkaban established that the Muggle "witch burnings" of the 15th century were considered a joke by the Wizarding World, as all it takes is a simple charm to eliminate the chance of being harmed by mundane fire. I imagine there are similar charms for most (if not all) Muggle methods of causing harm.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Puffy- Hippogriffs wouldn't be too bad. Half bird, half horse. That's pretty awesome.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
They're also (According to canon HP lore, as per Newt Scamander's book Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) expressly not to be handled by any but the most experienced, mature wizards. And here Hagrid exposes a bunch of 13 year old punks to 'em.
I don't hate Hagrid, but he really is lacking in good judgement. And I didn't even bring up the Aragog thing. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Seems to me that Harry defeating Voldemort would be a horcrux countdown. How many horcruxes are there? And how many have been destroyed?
There were 7 Horcruxes. Voldemort already used one coming back from the killing curse that killed Harry, leaving
6...then Harry destroyed the diary, leaving...
5...Dubmbledore destroyed the ring, leaving...
4...The locket that RAB took is one. I need to reread the fifth book more carefully, but I'm thinking it's in Kreacher's stash from some rumors I've been hearing lately.
3...Hufflepuff's thing that Voldemort stole in one of the book 6 memories (I can't call to mind what kind of thing it was right now.)
The last two are more interesting. Dumbledore was thinking something of Ravenclaw's and something of Gryffendor's, but he's pretty sure that the only known relic of Gryffendor is the sword Harry pulled out of the hat in book 2. I have a strong sense that we will have an ah ha moment when we run into these objects.
And of course, a lot of people are suggesting that Harry himself is the last Horcrux because Dumbledore was pretty sure Voldemort hadn't finished making them all when he went to kill Harry and even thinks that kill was going to form the final Horcrux.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I think Dumbledore said there were only 6 when he came to Harry's house. It might be that Nagini is his 7th one.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Nagini is what Dumbledore was speculating the 7th might be, but I'm pretty sure he missed the mark on that one. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
There are 6 horcruxes - the 7th part of his soul is still in Voldemort.
Shards of soul: 1.) Diary (destroyed) 2.) Ring (destroyed) 3.) Slytherin's locket (RAB has) 4.) Hufflepuff's cup 5.) Something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor 6.) Nagini 7.) Voldemort (must be destroyed last)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Dumbledore counted Nagini. The sixth is a mystery.
The seven pieces of TMR's soul: diary (gone), locket, snake, ring (gone), cup, Voldemort, and [?].
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Its threads like this that make me completely comfortable with the large diversity of opinion that is to be found within for example Christianity.
We can't even agree on something that is spelled out in no uncertain terms in a series of books that are even written in their original language.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
One thought I had about a location for one of the missing Horcruxes...Voldemort has put his Horcruxes in places that are significant to him and no place was more significant to him than Hogwarts. So I'm betting at least one of the missing Horcruxes is there (Hufflepuff's cup of something of Ravenclaw).
What do you think about it being in the room of requirement? Where Malfoy hid that wardrobe and Harry hid his book? Just a thought...
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: One thought I had about a location for one of the missing Horcruxes...Voldemort has put his Horcruxes in places that are significant to him and no place was more significant to him than Hogwarts. So I'm betting at least one of the missing Horcruxes is there (Hufflepuff's cup of something of Ravenclaw).
What do you think about it being in the room of requirement? Where Malfoy hid that wardrobe and Harry hid his book? Just a thought...
But the journal was already at Hogwarts, it seems kinda non uniform to have 2 in Hogwarts and the rest in different places respectively.
Having said that, I am pretty sure that Harry has to come back to Hogwarts for some reason or other. A fight within the vacant school is just too cool to pass up IMO.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I read one theory about how Fortescue- the guy who had the Ice Cream parlor- has an ancestor who was a headmaster at Hogwarts. Because Fortescue is the name of the headmaster (has been mentioned in the books)
The physical description is red-headed and apparently is similar to that of the symbol of air, which according to somewhere is the element of Ravenclaw. THen they took that and mentioned the Goblin-made tiara )which Florean Fortescue knew a great deal about goblin rebellions) was seen in the Room of Requirement and might be another Horcrux.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
The journal wasn't in Hogwarts. It was in Lucius Malfoy's house and secretly gave it to Ginny. It opened the CoS in the school- but the journal wasn't in the school until that year.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:But the journal was already at Hogwarts
The journal was with Lucius, not Hogwarts.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shawshank: I read one theory about how Fortescue- the guy who had the Ice Cream parlor- has an ancestor who was a headmaster at Hogwarts. Because Fortescue is the name of the headmaster (has been mentioned in the books)
The physical description is red-headed and apparently is similar to that of the symbol of air, which according to somewhere is the element of Ravenclaw. THen they took that and mentioned the Goblin-made tiara )which Florean Fortescue knew a great deal about goblin rebellions) was seen in the Room of Requirement and might be another Horcrux.
Wow! Someone is paying a lot of attention to the details, aren't they?
That's not bad, though.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
docmagik: I'm cracking up! That was a great link. I especially liked:
quote:Dumbledore sighed. "Why couldn't the prophecy have referred to Hermione?"
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
"And the showdown at Hoggett's farm is amazing!" Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Christine: trust me- I didn't think of that all by myself- I remembered it was said after I read the theory. I certainly don't have that level of observation.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
I have no idea what the big twist is going to be, but trust me, there is a big twist in book 7. There is no way it took Rowling 15 years to create the Potterverse just to have a mundane ending. I just hope the last book is not Chapter 1: Harry tracks down a horcrux. Chapter 2: Harry tracks down another horcrux. etc.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by otterk10: I have no idea what the big twist is going to be, but trust me, there is a big twist in book 7. There is no way it took Rowling 15 years to create the Potterverse just to have a mundane ending. I just hope the last book is not Chapter 1: Harry tracks down a horcrux. Chapter 2: Harry tracks down another horcrux. etc.
Well, remember that there are only 4 Horcruxes to track down. If we compare that to book 4 which had 3 tri-wizard events, then she could probably lead up to the discovery of each one without boring us. I have a feeling that Hermione will be doing a lot of the brain work anyway, as she always has. That leaves Harry's POV clear for other things until it comes right down to getting the Horcrux.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
It may not be a matter of "tracking down" the horcruxes so much. If Dumbledore is right about Nagini, and readers are right about the locket, then two of them are accounted for. RAB might have collected others, in addition to the locket, and Kreacher could have squirrelled them all away in one place.
Also note: Rowling hasn't debunked the Harry as a Horcrux theory.
I'm really curious to see how Voldemort reacts when he discovers that several have been destroyed.
Also, a non-magical person using magic might not indicate that the person develops magical powers. Dudley could ride a broom, for example.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I think for every horocrux harry destroys the more desperate and hurtful Voldemort's retaliations will be. I bet by the finale the build up will make many a reader want to pass out.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Blackblade that's brilliant. umm yeah.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Blackblade that's brilliant. umm yeah.
Is that awe or sarcasm? I honestly can hear both.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It's breyer! One of the sweetest people in the world. I'm not sure she's even capable of being witheringly sarcastic.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Heh I love you kat.
I wasn't sarcastic, well a bit, it's just so incredibly obvious that that will happen, that I was suprised it wasn't on the first page, unless others were thinking that it was so obvious it didn't deserve a mention.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Heh I love you kat.
I wasn't sarcastic, well a bit, it's just so incredibly obvious that that will happen, that I was suprised it wasn't on the first page, unless others were thinking that it was so obvious it didn't deserve a mention.
Nice to know my sarcasmometer is so sensitive even if my sense of the obvious is taking a nap.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Sorry, no I didn't mean to be offensive.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Two things occured to me as I was finishing Goblet of Fire yesterday night (I'm on a forced march to finish in three weeks- yikes).
When Harry tells Dumbledore about how Voldemort took some of his blood and all that implies, Dumbledore has a fleeting look of triumph, but then sits down heavily. This suggests to me that the protections Harry transfered to Voldemort will be his undoing. Whether the subsequent reaction is due to Dumbledore knowing he will die or Harry will die, I don't know. I do think that while Voldemort can touch Harry, Voldemort cannot kill Harry, and if Harry is killed, Voldemort will have to die or live with the Dursleys forever . (There was a reference to this in "The house of Black" in book 5- how harry would feel about being forced to live in the house he grew up in).
My view on things is a bit colored in that I've have read the chapter summaries at hp-lexicon.org. If Harry's protection is constituted in the love of his mother, and Lily is the love of Snape's life... I don't know, that whatever Snape's conscious feelings for Harry are, this will somehow play into the web of Harry's mortality. I'm looking forward to finding out what happens in Half Blood Prince.
I was really amazed by book 4, by the way. For the longest time as it dragged on I was wondering if this wasn't just a cheap mystery where the author hides things deliberately (since I had seen the movie) but the ending was really good and wise.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
In defense of BlackBlade, do we have any proof that Voldemort KNOWS when a Horcrux is destroyed?
One wonders why RAB would bother leaving a replacement behind if Voldemort knew ahead of time, unless RAB didn't destroy it, but either way it's a valid question.
I've seen nothing to prove he'll know when a Horcrux has been destroyed, so I don't know why his retributions would be so bad when Harry goes about destroying the others.
Personally I would be most satisfied if when Voldemort dies, it comes as a total and complete shock to him, and he dies slowly, realizing that his Horcruxes cannot save him. Even if I have to suffer through a horrible villain death speech, I think it'd be the best way for him to die.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
IIRC Dumbledore says that he doesn't think Voldemort will know automatically when a horcrux is destroyed. He may not even know that the diary has been destroyed. Malfoy would be pretty stupid to tell him.
I think that he'll discover that several of them have been destroyed at some point during the last book. I'm guessing it will be before he's down to his last one, and that we'll get to see his reaction to that news.
Posted by krynn (Member # 524) on :
i think a surpirse like that is too bland. i think voldemort will know about the horcrux. i think it will almost seem like everything is going wrong and seem simpossible for hary to win. and the suprise will be how him and party get through it.
not sure if thats in the same obvious range as blackblade's statement, but i think the whole talk about suprising voldemort with his death after detroying the last horcrux seems way too simple. it doesnt really sound like a climactic way to go IMO.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't really think Voldemort will know when the Horcurxi are distroyed either but I do think that when harry finds, not nessecarily distroys a horcrux, voldemort and his guys will attack. Just as they did at the end of book six.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
When a horocrux is destroyed does Voldemort get that part of his soul back? Wouldn't destroying horocruxes then bring Voldemort back to his senses ever so slowly? Maybe Harry will destroy them all and find a tired sad man only too happy to pay for his crimes and end this terrible war.
Hows that for an annoying ending?
PS: What if Voldemort simply makes more horocruxes every time one is destroyed and uses Harry's friends as the sacrificial victims every time Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Dudley could ride a broom, for example.
Not without falling off or breaking the broom...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:When a horocrux is destroyed does Voldemort get that part of his soul back?
I don't think so. I think that part of his soul is destroyed/moves on/whatever.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
i think snape is going to die destroying a horcrux after being entrusted by Voldemort to protect it once he realizes harry is destroying them all.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:Not without falling off or breaking the broom...
How about one of those illegally imported flying carpets?
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
New rumor. There is a spoiler warning in there so you can read the article even if you don't want to hear possible spoilers.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Voldemort already knows that at least one Horcrux (the diary) has been destroyed. If I recall correctly, it made him quite angry.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Gaal, that's not a new rumor.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Strider: unless Voldie is the most ineffective villain ever, he's not going to give a guy of questionable allegiances like Snape a piece of his SOUL. He's not going to give them to anyone! He's too confident in his own magics (like the island he set up that Dumbledore and Harry went to)
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
According to Dumbledore- he thinks Voldemort think he's the only one who knows about the Horcruxes.
He prefers to operate alone remember? He's not giving to give a horcrux to Snape.
I think there will still be some information that Dumbledore passes Harry- maybe he wrote pre-death or something.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Hey does anyone remember whether it was conclusively said about whether Hogwarts will be open or not?
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Man, I really hope that the hacker is a hoax. I couldn't resist googling about the hacker and read about both characters that die and I really, really hope it's not true. Not because of who dies, but because it'll be the 2nd HP book I ruined for myself. In the 5th book I somehow managed to accidently read the one sentence that says explicity, and in capital letters because Harry is shouting IIRC, who dies before I started reading the book. It was the worst. I think I was flipping to the end to see how many pages there was or something like that and that one sentence just caught my eyes. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm almost certain it's a hoax. Rowling's too talented to present that plot.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shawshank: Hey does anyone remember whether it was conclusively said about whether Hogwarts will be open or not?
I don't believe anything was said conclusively. Personally I think at least some of the book will take place at Hogwarts.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Shawshank: Hey does anyone remember whether it was conclusively said about whether Hogwarts will be open or not?
I don't believe anything was said conclusively. Personally I think at least some of the book will take place at Hogwarts.
I think the only conclusive info was that there isn't going to be any Quidditch in the last book.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I think Hogwarts will be closed- but events (I think the final absolute climax has to be there)
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm almost certain it's a hoax. Rowling's too talented to present that plot.
The only thing that makes me think it might be real is this:
quote:Bloomsbury Publishing declined to comment on the hacker’s claims. Kyle Good, a spokesman for American distributor Scholastic Corporation, warned readers to be skeptical about any information they hear about the book’s plot prior to its release.
That sounds to me how a company would act if the hacker was real. If they knew it was fake I'd expect them to reassure us that nobody has stolen the copy of the book, etc. If the hack was real they can't lie to us and tell us it's not, because we'd know they lied to us after the book came out.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If I were in charge, I'd publicly react the exact same way whether it was real or not.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Definitely.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Ditto! (And not just the pokemon :-))
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
*uses a smack attack on Phanto* *Phanto transforms into a Flaming Toad on a Stick* *Toad hits himself*
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
I just finished rereading The Order of the Phoenix. The prophecy doesn't make sense. Ok, here it is:
quote: The One with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies.... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...
Now Dumbledore explains that Voldemort's spy only heard the part about a boy being born to parents who have thrice defied him. I'm guessing the spy also heard that he will be the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord, otherwise he has no reason to even care about this boy. But how will Harry have the power that the dark lord knows not? He already knows that the boy has the power to vanquish him? What does it say in the prophecy that Harry will have that Voldemort didn't hear?
Then, Harry asks why Voldemort didn't wait until him and Neville were older to see who would be more dangerous. Dumbledore says that would have been a more practical course, but since he only heard the first part he wouldn't know that to attack Harry would he would risk transferring his power to him. What? Even if Voldemort heard the whole prophecy he still wouldn't know that he might transfer his power to him. And I don't get why it'd be more practical to wait and see who is more dangerous before killing him. The one that he wants to kill will be harder to kill when he's older, Voldemort had the right idea trying to kill the kid when he's a baby. And why not just kill both babies? He's Voldemort.
Confusing stuff.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Didn't really get the chance to kill both babies. The first one sort of thwarted him, and at that point the prophecy was in motion.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It's not that Voldemort knows that Harry can vanquish him. The power Harry has that Voldemort "knows not" is Love. Voldie has no experience with love, we spent the entire sixth book finding that out.
And Lyr is right on why he couldn't kill both, he was practically dead after he tried to kill one, it seems rather likely that he was going to try to kill Neville too. Do we know if Neville's parents were attacked before or after the Potter's died?
I think by practical Dumbledore means that it would have saved the life of one baby in case the second one was the problem. That one I am less sure on though.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Gaal, I think the most important part of the prophecy is "he will mark him as his equal". Voldemort, I think, would immediately wonder if those words were literal. And, indeed, they were literal. So, if he had heard the whole prophecy he might very well have let Harry and Neville grow up a bit more to find out who the threat was.
Breyerchic, I believe that the Longbottoms were attacked after Voldemort's death. I think it is mentioned somewhere that they were looking for Voldemort, not convinced that he was actually gone, and that somehow Frank Longbottom (an auror high up in both the Order of the Pheonix and, presumably, the Ministry) would have knowledge of where he was.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Ok, that's what I was thinking, but I wasn't positive. If that is the case, it seems rather likely that Voldemort had planned to kill Neville after Harry.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Quick question: I was rereading the first book, and it says James was head boy. Later we find out that the first step to being head boy is prefect, and that Remus, not James, was the prefect.
Am I missing something that makes this not contradictory (which is very possible)?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Quick question: I was rereading the first book, and it says James was head boy. Later we find out that the first step to being head boy is prefect, and that Remus, not James, was the prefect.
Am I missing something that makes this not contradictory (which is very possible)?
I think the question is whether "first step" is meant that you literally must be a prefect first, or that it just makes it easier/more likely.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
Yeah, I was under the impression that you didn't need to be a prefect in order to become head boy, it's just most common for the head boy to have been a prefect.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote: It's not that Voldemort knows that Harry can vanquish him. The power Harry has that Voldemort "knows not" is Love. Voldie has no experience with love, we spent the entire sixth book finding that out.
But Voldemort heard the part about Harry having the power to vanquish him, right?
So Voldemort was planning on killing Neville too, but why would it have been more practical to wait until they were older if he would've heard the rest of the prophecy?
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by hansenj: Yeah, I was under the impression that you didn't need to be a prefect in order to become head boy, it's just most common for the head boy to have been a prefect.
For instance, I would find Harry being head boy much more likely that I would find Ron being head boy. Harry has leadership experience and the respect of his peers from his time running DA.
That is assuming, of course, that school will resume in the next book.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Quick question: I was rereading the first book, and it says James was head boy. Later we find out that the first step to being head boy is prefect, and that Remus, not James, was the prefect.
Am I missing something that makes this not contradictory (which is very possible)?
James was Quidditch captain That could put him on the same level as a prefect.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote: Quick question: I was rereading the first book, and it says James was head boy. Later we find out that the first step to being head boy is prefect, and that Remus, not James, was the prefect.
Remus' being a werewolf might have interfered with his ability to act as head boy. You might slide once a month on prefect, whereas head boy might demand full time attention.
Also, James was a trouble maker when he was younger, but apparently straightened himself out later on.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Thanks everyone, those reasons all make sense.
quote:For instance, I would find Harry being head boy much more likely that I would find Ron being head boy. Harry has leadership experience and the respect of his peers from his time running DA.
Except for that little thing about using a dark, life-threatening spell on a student - an infraction that earned weekly detentions extending into the next school year.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Thanks everyone, those reasons all make sense.
quote:For instance, I would find Harry being head boy much more likely that I would find Ron being head boy. Harry has leadership experience and the respect of his peers from his time running DA.
Except for that little thing about using a dark, life-threatening spell on a student - an infraction that earned weekly detentions extending into the next school year.
Oh yea, I forgot about that. But given that the victim of his attack made several attempts to murder the headmaster, his sectrosempa (was that it?) curse may be regarded as being in protection of the school! Who knows?!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
And it's not like Snape can keep giving him detention...
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Do we know if Neville's parents were attacked before or after the Potter's died?
The Longbottoms were tortured by LeStrange and Crouch Jr. after Voldemort vanished. They were trying to get information on V's whereabouts. Was that what you were asking?
Gah, my brain is full. I'm at the denoument of the Order of the Phoenix and I'v kind of hit a wall. I guess on the one hand, I have the drive to finish the darned set of 17 tapes. On the other hand, I just can't read anymore. I guess I'm too much attached to what is happening.
Of course, I could think of several instances where my sense of practicality would have caused me to possibly do things differently. I guess we aren't worrying too much about spoilers. I would have smashed the ball as soon as folk showed up making threats. Well, at least that's what I imagine I would have done. As Harry says, they're going to kill them anyway, why give them any chance of success in the bargain? I don't know, though. I guess that's not very hopeful. I'll have to examine that, it's a vestige of having a hard heart.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
pooka, I think a huge part of what happened was due to the fact that Harry had no idea what the ball was. All he knew was that as long as he was holding it the Death Eaters weren't attacking, and he had his friends' safety to think about.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by BandoCommando:
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Thanks everyone, those reasons all make sense.
quote:For instance, I would find Harry being head boy much more likely that I would find Ron being head boy. Harry has leadership experience and the respect of his peers from his time running DA.
Except for that little thing about using a dark, life-threatening spell on a student - an infraction that earned weekly detentions extending into the next school year.
Oh yea, I forgot about that. But given that the victim of his attack made several attempts to murder the headmaster, his sectrosempa (was that it?) curse may be regarded as being in protection of the school! Who knows?!
Oh I am sure there was a MUCH safer nondark spell that could have accomplished what Harry was going for in that instance. Don't forget Harry tried to use the spell again on Snape. There seems to be an overwhelming feeling of hesitancy when it comes to understanding the dark arts.
The idea of using dark spells against evil wizards is REALLY unorthodox and frowned on.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
There was a point when he knew what the deatheaters said it was. I don't think his responses were the only logical possibilities, is all.
It's an interesting book. It looks into how Harry deals with having made a mistake with disastrous consequences.
P.S. When Harry is made Quidditch captain it says that puts him on equal footing with prefects. At least insofar as bathroom priviledges go.
[ July 05, 2007, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Okay, I've just gone through this books in the course of about a month, and I guess I'm just befuddled as to why anyone would think Snape is good. I guess the only reason is to want to believe there was a reason Dumbledore trusted him. But I don't see any text support for many of the things people have listed, like that he was in love with Lily Evans, or that calling her a mudblood was his most shameful memory. I mean, I know Harry was looking in on his unguarded private thoughts and the possibility of his greatest shame was referred to, but I didn't get the impression that he was honing in specifically on that. I guess the story he told to Narcissa, before making the unbreakable vow, about Quirrel seemed a deception. And there's Crouch's foe glass.
I do think Rowling has gotten more subtle as the books have gone on. I think the point of book six may have been that trust says more about the person granting it than it does about the object.
I think any hope resides more principally in Malfoy, there's just fewer clues, but the true alignment of Snape is probably tied up in that. I think Snape is still in flux, and he will go in whichever direction Malfoy goes. Maybe Snape is secretly Malfoy's father. Narcissa seemed good looking enough for the both of them perhaps, and Snape's mother was blonde. Well, that's my crazy theory, tossed into the ring.
As for R.A.B., if it isn't regulus black, I'll vote for it being another self-appointed title, though it would be pretty cheap if it were one we hadn't heard yet.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Okay, I've just gone through this books in the course of about a month, and I guess I'm just befuddled as to why anyone would think Snape is good. I guess the only reason is to want to believe there was a reason Dumbledore trusted him. But I don't see any text support for many of the things people have listed, like that he was in love with Lily Evans, or that calling her a mudblood was his most shameful memory. I mean, I know Harry was looking in on his unguarded private thoughts and the possibility of his greatest shame was referred to, but I didn't get the impression that he was honing in specifically on that. I guess the story he told to Narcissa, before making the unbreakable vow, about Quirrel seemed a deception. And there's Crouch's foe glass.
I do think Rowling has gotten more subtle as the books have gone on. I think the point of book six may have been that trust says more about the person granting it than it does about the object.
I think the biggest 'hint' that Snape is good (not sure if I believe it) is the argument he and Dumbledore had that is mentioned only in passing by Hagrid. He says it seems like Dumbledore was asking Snape to do something that he didn't want to do.
If Snape is good, my theory: Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him.
Sounds crazy, I know. But this would do three things. First, it would save Snape's life (if he didn't kill Dumbledore or help Draco do it, the Unbreakable Vow would have killed him). Second, it makes Snape's position among the Death Eaters stronger, so if he's really good he can cause a lot more damage. And third...I'm not convinced that shriveling his arm is the only thing the ring of Gaunt did to Dumbledore. What if he had been slowly dying all year, and so decided to end his life as a sacrifice to inevitably help defeat Voldemort.
Is this theory too far out there?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
No
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Not at all. Or at least, not to me. That's pretty much exactly what I took away from the last book.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Snape is obviously "good," or at least on the side of the good people. Javert's got all the major points down.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Thank you Tom. I forgot to mention, nothing I said keeps Snape from being a jerk. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, yeah, Snape's not a nice guy at all. He's just on the same side of the chessboard as Dumbledore.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*agrees with Javert, breyer, Tom, and Noem*
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
*Agrees that Rivka is right to agree with Javert, breyer, Tom, and Noem*
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
i'm not even gonna bother to agree. But it's so darn agreeable!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:if he didn't kill Dumbledore or help Draco do it, the Unbreakable Vow would have killed him
See, that hardly makes someone good in my view. I'm not rebutting your other points, just saying that to do it to save Draco is possibly good, doing it so the UV won't kill him is selfish. Doing it because with Dumbledore obviously weakened they are outnumbered by their fellow deatheaters, that's iffy.
When is the conversation that Hagrid overhears?
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I think Snape is a cyborg, and thus is not well captured by tradition definitions of good and evil. All the clues are there. His mastery of potions, his hatred of show-offs, and his constant chugging of WD-40. All classic signs of someone being a cyborg.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Tom, thank you. I was going to say it was obvious but I was afraid someone would yell at me.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
quote:if he didn't kill Dumbledore or help Draco do it, the Unbreakable Vow would have killed him
See, that hardly makes someone good in my view. I'm not rebutting your other points, just saying that to do it to save Draco is possibly good, doing it so the UV won't kill him is selfish. Doing it because with Dumbledore obviously weakened they are outnumbered by their fellow deatheaters, that's iffy.
When is the conversation that Hagrid overhears?
It's in book six, but I honestly forget where. I might check when I get home.
The thing is pooka, I think what they were arguing about was that Snape didn't want to kill Dumbledore. I think he may very well have been prepared to die rather than kill, but Dumbledore made him. That could also explain the look of contempt that Snape gives him before he kills him. Not "I hate you" but "I hate you for making me do this".
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Why did Snape take the Unbreakable Vow to kill Dumbledore in the first place? He didn't know that Dumbledore would eventually be cornered by Death Eaters and he would die anyways so it might as well be Snape. By taking the Vow he assures that Dumbledore would die in the end. What's the point of that?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Why did Snape take the Unbreakable Vow to kill Dumbledore in the first place? He didn't know that Dumbledore would eventually be cornered by Death Eaters and he would die anyways so it might as well be Snape. By taking the Vow he assures that Dumbledore would die in the end. What's the point of that?
It really depends on whether Snape was expecting Narcissa to ask it of him or not.
I'm of the opinion that he wasn't expecting it but, being a spy and wanting to secure the trust of Voldemort and the Death Eaters, he went through with it fully expecting to have to die. And then, when Dumbledore learned of it, he used it to his advantage.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
He didn't take a vow to kill Dumbledore. He took a vow to help Draco. The theory is he didn't know what Draco was supposed to be doing, and took the vow in order to get in close enough to find out.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: He didn't take a vow to kill Dumbledore. He took a vow to help Draco. The theory is he didn't know what Draco was supposed to be doing, and took the vow in order to get in close enough to find out.
This was my understanding as well.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: He didn't take a vow to kill Dumbledore. He took a vow to help Draco. The theory is he didn't know what Draco was supposed to be doing, and took the vow in order to get in close enough to find out.
This was my understanding as well.
Ah, but Snape told Narcissa he was already aware of the plan involving Draco.
He could, of course, have been lying.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Of COURSE he was lying!
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Narcissa was about to tell Snape if he didn't tell her he already knew. That was pretty stupid of him to do if he really did want to find out the plan.
Plus, the way Snape was talking made it seem as if he did already know, saying how Voldemort gave Draco the job as revenge for Lucius failing him. And then Narcissa said about how even Voldemort couldn't succeed in doing it, and nobody could ever. Snape should've known what he was promising.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Narcissa was about to tell Snape if he didn't tell her he already knew.
I disagree. She was very suspicious of him, and unlikely to tell him anything of the sort.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
*closes eyes so I don't see anything*
I just started the first book. I know I am behind, but oh well. I have seen this thread and so wanted to look.
I'll make sure and get on it before I read the last one.
*opens eyes to see Add Reply button*
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Or Snape knew all along what Draco's mission was, and he discussed it with Dumbledore before hand, and also suspected that he'd have to take the Unbreakable Vow and it was all planned out before hand.
I'm in the middle of rereading Order of the Phoenix right now, I wasn't going to reread them all, but I wanted to do 5 and 6 over again before the movie came out and before Deathly Hallows.
I've yet to talk to anyone in person who doesn't think that Sirius will make some sort of cameo in the last book. I heard an interesting theory that ties Harry as a Horcrux to him sacrificing himself inside the veil, where he has a last conversation with Sirius. Some of it sounded pretty plausible, but I'd like Harry to survive. Though I think I could get over it if he died like that.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Narcissa was about to tell Snape if he didn't tell her he already knew.
I disagree. She was very suspicious of him, and unlikely to tell him anything of the sort.
Bellatrix was the one that was really suspicious of him. Narcissa was the one who was crying and trying to get Snape to help. Quote from the chapter, Narcissa is saying: "The Dark Lord has forbidden me to speak of it...He wishes none to know of the plan. It is...very secret. But-". That's when Snape interrupts her telling her not to say anything.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think Snape knew either. He knew that he was to do whatever would help the order. He probably figured it out for sure when Draco poisoned Katie.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
I think Snape is good is because of the way the plot is set up.
In the first book, Harry thinks Snape is evil, but he saves Harry's life.
In books 2-5 we have or suspicions about Snape, but he does not do anything blatantly evil, so we assume he is good.
In book 6, Snape kills Dumbledore. However, throughout the series Dumbledore strongly trusts Snape.
In book 7, Rowling will do the switcharoo again and show that Snape is good. Besides, Dumbledore is too smart to trust Snape for no reason.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I just wanted to say I don't see Dumbledore asking Snape to kill him just to deprive Harry of a parent figure. I can see where they got together and worked out what Malfoy's mission was, and Dumbledore said he was willing for Snape to kill him if Malfoy didn't choose to.
But what about Snape calling Voldemort "Dark Lord" and even being able to cast Avara Kedevara (sp?) And the sectum sempra. He left the book in Harry's possession knowing there was stuff like that in there.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I don't think the ability to cast Avada Kadavra (sp?) means anything in particular.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It means you have hatred. We know he has hatred, we don't know whom towards. He calls Voldemort dark lord because he's a double agent and wants people who need to, to believe he is on the bad side. I also think it might be possible he didn't realize harry would get the book.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
There's also the dialog that spills out of Dumbledore's mouth while he is under the effects of the potion from the cave. A lot of people have said they think that Dumbledore is recounting both sides of the argument he had with Snape, with Snape begging not to do it, and Dumbledore demanding "KILL ME!"
Also, go back to the first book and Dumbledore's comments about death and a well-organized mind. He is 150 years old, after all.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I've yet to talk to anyone in person who doesn't think that Sirius will make some sort of cameo in the last book.
By "cameo", are you including hearing about him/flashbacks/that sort of thing?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I haven't heard anything along those lines. Most of what I've heard are various excuses to get him to communucate from beyond the veil.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen. I don't however think there is a chance he'll come back alive at all, as some are hoping.
Posted by Astaril (Member # 7440) on :
I don't think Snape can be evil because if he is, Dumbledore's entire philosophy of trust and love is down the tubes, and if Dumbledore's philosophies are wrong, everything Harry has learned and based his own morals and ethics and 'goodness' on is also wrong, because as we know, he's "Dumbledore's man through and through". I don't think Rowling can do that. The series has been much too black and white so far to turn that ambiguously grey now. Dumbledore HAS to be right, because he is the moral compass of the series.
What I don't understand is -- if Dumbledore made Snape promise to kill him -- why he didn't confide that this might happen to someone else in the Order. As it is, Snape is useless as a spy now, because the entire Order thinks he's turned, so it's not like he can pass on reports. No one will trust him anymore, even if he tries to explain. Dumbledore was the only one who was ever entirely convinced he was good. If he hadn't killed Dumbledore, he might have been killed by Death Eaters or the Vow, but without Snape's ability to spy, Dumbledore is more use to keep alive than Snape anyway, so I'm not sure why he sacrificed himself for Snape's sake other than plain nobility.
One crazy idea I had was that Dumbledore Imperiused Snape to do it, but that wouldn't fit with Dumbledore's view on things at all. I'm missing puzzle pieces. I think in the 7th book, we'll find out exactly why Dumbledore trusted him so entirely, and that will explain things.
I also think Harry will die. I've thought it since Book 4 came out. It won't make me nearly as sad as when Dumbledore went. I just finished re-reading the whole series last night, and I've been grouchy all day leftover from it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I haven't heard anything along those lines. Most of what I've heard are various excuses to get him to communucate from beyond the veil.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen. I don't however think there is a chance he'll come back alive at all, as some are hoping.
Oh. I think dead is dead, barring ghost-hood. Unless we are talking something like a repeat of the Priori Incantatem situation, and I don't see Voldemort allowing that...
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I haven't heard anything along those lines. Most of what I've heard are various excuses to get him to communucate from beyond the veil.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen. I don't however think there is a chance he'll come back alive at all, as some are hoping.
Oh. I think dead is dead, barring ghost-hood. Unless we are talking something like a repeat of the Priori Incantatem situation, and I don't see Voldemort allowing that...
Doesn't apply anyway. Sirius was killed by Bellatrix, so for P.I. to work you would need to find a sibling for her wand. And even if you did, her spell didn't kill him, the veil did, so I don't think you'd get a ghosty Sirius that way.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not necessarily convinced that he's dead in the traditional sense, then again there is no traditional sense of dead in the Harry Potter verse. James and Lily were Avada Kedavra'd and yet they still made a cameo with priori incantatem. I don't think that Sirius is dead, he's just gone, which might as well be dead since you can't come back from the veil, but Luna and I think others thought they heard voices from beyond the veil, and I think that was foreshadowing.
I don't know how they'll do it, whether it be some wacky possession thing, or horcruxes, or ghosts, or astral projection, but I think it's possible, maybe not likely, but possible.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I think Dumbledore's philosophy on trust is that trust is inherent to the trustor and not the trustee.
While killing Dumbldore destroys the trust the Order had for him, it does make his cover, if there is one, with the Death Eaters stronger.
Though now that I'm thinking on it, can Snape trust Malfoy? Does he think Dumbledore was in such a weakened state from something Malfoy did?
Posted by jaysedai6 (Member # 8856) on :
Wont there be a portrait of Dumbldore in the new headmaster private study? The other hearmasters left there place on the walls and went to warn about Arthur Weasley and the trouble he was in. So I think Dumldore will be able to speak and move in someplaces,
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
There already is the new picture of Dumbledore.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
But it doesn't seem likely he'll have portraits in other places. Dilys had a portrait in St Mungos because she had worked there, and Phineas at Grimauld place as a relative. From what we know and is assumed, Dumbledore's other portrait could be at the hogs head Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: But it doesn't seem likely he'll have portraits in other places. Dilys had a portrait in St Mungos because she had worked there, and Phineas at Grimauld place as a relative. From what we know and is assumed, Dumbledore's other portrait could be at the hogs head
Don't forget all of those darn Chocolate Frog cards.
On a completely random tangent, I was watching the 2nd movie today since it was on TV and made the belated realization that Diagon Alley is very related to the word "diagonally". Yet another clever play on words by J.K. Rowling.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
D'oh!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
You're kidding me. Did you realize that Knockturn Alley was "nocturnally"?
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Lisa beat me.
One thing I'd really like to see is a Rowling Etymological dictionary of terms. What was she thinking of when she came up with some of her terms/names/spells?
Oh, and here's a question: What is your favorite Rowling term and why?
My favorites are:
"pensieve" because it's both a seive for sifting thoughts, and the fact that pensive refers to considering your own thoughts. It's also a pen in which thoughts are contained.
"Mudblood" in part because it seems to me that a really good insult was needed to convey the mentality of the pure-blood types. The dirty blood concept also fits here. It's like a really good example of method acting: Rowling getting into the mindset of her evil characters. Also because it rhymes, it feels like childish name calling. Very appropriate in a school setting.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: You're kidding me. Did you realize that Knockturn Alley was "nocturnally"?
I always thought Knockturn meant more like "wrong turn." Like knock was British way of saying bad, though not necessarily British because it's part of American parlance, to say someone was "knocked" could mean insulted. So I thought it meant if you went down there you'd made a wrong turn.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I never realized that about Knocturn Alley or Diagon Alley.
*hangs head in shame*
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
*raises hand*
Neither did I. I knew Diagon was related to diagonally, but it never clicked that 'alley' was part of it.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think the chocolate frog cards count, nor photographs. Just Portraits, real official portraits.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: One thing I'd really like to see is a Rowling Etymological dictionary of terms. What was she thinking of when she came up with some of her terms/names/spells?
While I am unaware of any official ones, there are several speculative ones on teh intarweb.
This one's not bad for people, although it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
What's the countdown now? I forget the release date, but isn't it getting close?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It comes out the 21st, so 13 days.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
My Deathly Hallows theory is the same as it has been for years: the soul & memories of the James Potter we see in the pensieve memory are now in the body of the guy we know as Snape, somehow and some way, and that will be revealed in the 7th book. "Snape" (read: James) has been protecting his son Harry but is enraged by the arrogance of his own younger years when he sees it cropping up in his son. That's why he sneers at Harry and lashes out at his pridefulness.
I know, I know -- "Luke, I am your father." But I'm pretty sure for myself that this revelation will mean everyone has to go back and reread all the books with the characters now straight to get a very different story.
As I said to Christine earlier, I'm willing to be wrong, but I await to be disproven. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
But Harry really isn't that arrogant. In fact, he's very humble considering all he's done... Also, JKR said it wasn't so...
Also, it's so ironic that Snape hangs out with Malfoy. Malfoy is everything he hates. Arrogant, boastful, a bully. I don't get that guy.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Syn I haven't seen that on a debunked rumor site. Can you link me?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Are you kidding? Harry was loathsome in Order of the Phoenix. I wanted to tell him to shut up through half the book.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
It's definitely Aramaic-like. "Avada" could mean "perish", the prefix "ke" means "like", and "davra" could mean "thing", but it could also be related to a word meaning "plague" or "exterminate".
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Are you kidding? Harry was loathsome in Order of the Phoenix. I wanted to tell him to shut up through half the book.
Yeah, but considering what he had gone through, could you blame him for being angry? At least he has never really actively picked on other kids, usually he's the one everyone is looking at sideways.
Also, I think it was mentioned somewhere on the official site, but in some interview JKR said that there is no way James would have allowed his wife to die like that while he still was alive. Also he'd need a lot of Polyjuice potion, and he tends to be crueler to kids than I think James would be.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Ummmmm he's never actively picked on other kids? What? He turned someone upside down once, and don't forget sectumsempra.
She's not saying polyjuice potion.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
He didn't do any of those things intensionally though, and when he did use sectumsempra he felt very guilty afterwards, quite scared. I think Snape sneers at Harry because Harry looks like James and Snape hated james. Or maybe to throw people off, as he did rescue him a lot in book 1. Snape's too mean to be James, who was a lot nicer once he became more mature.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
It's definitely Aramaic-like. "Avada" could mean "perish", the prefix "ke" means "like", and "davra" could mean "thing", but it could also be related to a word meaning "plague" or "exterminate".
I don't remember the exact article, but I read an interview with Rowling where she specifically said it was from Aramaic, and it means something like 'to make into nothing.' That's probably terribly off what it actually was, I'm just going off memory, but I'll try to find the article if I can. I want to say it was on the leaky cauldron.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Given that Rowling's not a linguist, I tend to take such claims as indicative more of her intent than actual translation.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: ... he tends to be crueler to kids than I think James would be.
Which James? The James of the pensieve memory (adolescent) or the James of Harry's early childhood (adult)? Because, you see, I don't think they are the same James. (see below)
quote:Snape's too mean to be James, who was a lot nicer once he became more mature.
I'd say James was a lot nicer once he "became" (i.e., was switched with) the young Snape.
quote:... in some interview JKR said that there is no way James would have allowed his wife to die like that while he still was alive.
There are always ways of reinterpreting or intentionally interpreting words in a misleading way to make that true. JKR has done this before -- recall the "Half-Blood Prince."
----
Edited to add: For example, when she said something like "there is no way James would have allowed his wife to die like that while he was still alive," she could have been referring to the older James (i.e., formerly Snape). That James could be the referent. Certainly he was the James, at least in some sense, at that time.
For all I know, perhaps Lily thought of him as "James" because she never knew of the switch. It's one possibility. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:JKR has done this before -- recall the "Half-Blood Prince."
What about the Half-Blood Prince should we recall?
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
It's definitely Aramaic-like. "Avada" could mean "perish", the prefix "ke" means "like", and "davra" could mean "thing", but it could also be related to a word meaning "plague" or "exterminate".
I don't remember the exact article, but I read an interview with Rowling where she specifically said it was from Aramaic, and it means something like 'to make into nothing.' That's probably terribly off what it actually was, I'm just going off memory, but I'll try to find the article if I can. I want to say it was on the leaky cauldron.
I always jsut assumed that it was a play on the common magic words "Abra Cadabra". Naive muggles using wizards words without knowing their meaning.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by Little_Doctor:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
It's definitely Aramaic-like. "Avada" could mean "perish", the prefix "ke" means "like", and "davra" could mean "thing", but it could also be related to a word meaning "plague" or "exterminate".
I don't remember the exact article, but I read an interview with Rowling where she specifically said it was from Aramaic, and it means something like 'to make into nothing.' That's probably terribly off what it actually was, I'm just going off memory, but I'll try to find the article if I can. I want to say it was on the leaky cauldron.
I always jsut assumed that it was a play on the common magic words "Abra Cadabra". Naive muggles using wizards words without knowing their meaning.
For me, the "Kedavra" always sounded like cadaver. Seemed obvious to me, but the other answers sound plausible, too.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: What about the Half-Blood Prince should we recall?
The words "Half-Blood Prince" ended up referring to a "half-blood prince" who was not a "half-blood prince."
That is to say, the words "half-blood prince" were taken (and -- I think obviously -- intended to be taken) to indicate someone who was actually a prince, not just someone named Prince. But she didn't lie -- just misdirected. She parses the words she uses in spoilers and anti-spoilers carefully, just as Clinton did with "There is no improper relationship."
Well, there isn't, even if there is in the most likely way the words were to be taken.
quote:"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
[ July 09, 2007, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I think Snape sneers at Harry because Harry looks like James and Snape hated james.
I think he hates Harry because Lily died saving him. But he protects Harry because he's Lily's son. It all comes down to love.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Little_Doctor: I always jsut assumed that it was a play on the common magic words "Abra Cadabra". Naive muggles using wizards words without knowing their meaning.
Abra Cadabra is also Aramaic.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
"Kedavra" is clearly related to "cadaver," which has Indo-European roots.
Based on what Lisa said, the phrase could mean something like "Perish, Corpse!" It could also be a pun on "avatar," I suppose.
The whole phrase is meant to recall "abracadabra."
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Question:
When you're an animagus, and your animal form is an animal with magical properties, how do those properties affect you?
I ask, because what if Dumbledore is/was an unregistered animagus...perhaps a pheonix...and is able to rise from the dead?
Probably not, but fun to consider.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert: I ask, because what if Dumbledore is/was an unregistered animagus...perhaps a pheonix...and is able to rise from the dead?
That's an interesting possibility.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
It only occurred to me because it would fit with what Rowling has said, that Dumbledore is really dead, while still giving him the possibility to return.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Dumbledore is really dead. He is not in hiding and is not coming back.
Incidentally, shouldn't that page be rumours.shtml, and not rumors.shtml?
[ July 09, 2007, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Lisa ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I know Avada Kedavra is aramaic. The rest of her spell names look like a combination of latin/greek/aramaic ancient languages.
"Kedavra" is clearly related to "cadaver," which has Indo-European roots.
I don't think it's clear at all. The form is clearly Aramaic.
I just checked out an Aramaic-English dictionary I have, and it turns out that the verb D-B-R in Aramaic doesn't mean the same thing that it does in Hebrew. In Aramaic, it means "take" or "bring". But the prefix "ke" still doesn't make sense there. Without it, it could mean something like "Destruction take you!"
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: The whole phrase is meant to recall "abracadabra."
That's probably true.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I don't like to think about the etymology aspect much. It's like trying to make sense of the names in Star Trek.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: I don't like to think about the etymology aspect much. It's like trying to make sense of the names in Star Trek.
You don't get them all? **You do realize that every single name corresponds to an American congressman from the House as it existed in 1966.
The Next Generation is based in 1987's Senate,
Deep Space Nine is 1993's House
and Voyager follows 1995's Senate.
Enterprise broke this trend and hence is considered non canon. *
Speaking of, was anybody else surprised to see Sisko masquerading as an inept federal agent in Live Free or Die Hard?
*not actually true
** The following is all a vicious lie.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
quote:Snape is useless as a spy now...
I agree with this statement, but I think that doesn't matter. The Order doesn't need him as a spy at this point. I think Snape is now in the position he needs to be in to play his part in Voldemort's downfall. He doesn't need any of the Order to know the truth. In fact, he needs all of them to believe he's evil. That's the only way he'll be able to get close enough to Voldemort to make it possible for Harry to kill him. I definitely think that Snape will end up sacrificing himself at the Crucial Moment and then Harry will be able to kill Voldemort.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Unless Snape sacrifices himself, I have a hard time imagining an unambiguous resolution to which side Snape is on. Maybe a magically unforgeable communication from Dumbledore explaining what happened would be convincing enough.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Maybe Snape is like Gollum -- on his own side.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Bump for Christine.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Repost from the new thread I started for the sake of consistency:
So I watched an interview with JK Rowling (linked to via Mugglenet) and in it she said that while she did not cry at the end of the novel, there was a chapter that, when she finished, she bawled and grabbed a bottle of champaigne from the hotel mini-bar. As I was watching her recount that experience, I naturally wondered what on earth could have happened to make her cry like that, and the first thing that popped into my head was: Hermione dies.
I know we've been spouting off a lot of theories about this and that and I've been hoping the trio comes through this alive, but that may be unrealistic. Earlier in the interview, Rowling suggested that Hermione was the most like her and I think maybe that's why I thought Hermione died in the chapter that made her cry.
Here's the full interview in two parts..it's kind of long but pretty funny:
Anyone else have a theory about what made her cry?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I'd be willing to guess that whatever deaths there are would cause her to cry.
There will probably be deaths along the way, but there is almost certainly going to be some sort of final huge battle or confrontation that may very well come near a 'bloodbath'. This is probably where she cried.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Maybe she cried when (insert inappropriate slash fanfic pairing) finally confess their true feelings. After all, she grabbed a bottle of champange. It could have been tears of joy.
Is there Umbridge/Grawp fanfic? Or the tension breaks between Trelawney and Firenze. That would be the worst dialogue ever.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Maybe she cried when (insert inappropriate slash fanfic pairing) finally confess their true feelings. After all, she grabbed a bottle of champange. It could have been tears of joy.
Is there Umbridge/Grawp fanfic?
We never did find out what really happened with Umbridge and the centaurs...
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
The universe ending in some way, either hogwarts falling down, magic ceasing to exist, or everyone knowing about magic.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Anyone else have a theory about what made her cry?
I haven't gotten through the interview yet, but I do hope there is a part for Bob Hoskins.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Anyone else have a theory about what made her cry?
Snape. He's the most emotionally hurt and vulnerable person in the entire series, and his redemption and death is probably what made her break down.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:The name of this curse is related to the popular "mumbo-jumbo" magical phrase Abracadabra, which is actually of Aramaic origin: abhadda kedhabhra, meaning "disappear like this word".[1] Alternatively, the Aramaic words translate as "I create as I speak".[2]
A footnote in some editions of the Vietnamese translations of the Harry Potter books state a false etymology: "avatar cadaver": see [1].
Also, Romanian translations use Abracadabra as Avada Kedavra. The reasons for this is believed to be from the Latin word cadaver, which can mean corpse.
In the Hungarian translation of Harry Potter and the Goblet Of Fire and The Order Of The Phoenix, Avada Kedavra is mentioned and used many times as "Adava Kedavra". It is considered as a translating mistake because in the 6th book (The Half-Blood Prince) the curse is called Avada Kedavra.
During an audience interview at the Edinburgh Book Festival (15 August 2004) Rowling said:
"Does anyone know where avada kedavra came from? It is an ancient spell in Aramaic, and it is the original of abracadabra, which means “let the thing be destroyed”. Originally, it was used to cure illness and the “thing” was the illness, but I decided to make it the “thing” as in the person standing in front of me. I take a lot of liberties with things like that. I twist them round and make them mine."
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Umbridge is still around in book 6. I think the Centaurs realized it was much more gratifying to keep her conscious and hysterical than to harm her physically.
She has post traumatic stress when the kids make hoof clopping sounds.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Anyone else have a theory about what made her cry?
Snape. He's the most emotionally hurt and vulnerable person in the entire series, and his redemption and death is probably what made her break down.
I'm pretty sure Harry is the most emotionally hurt and vulnerable character...aside from some teasing at school, we're not sure what's up with Snape. We really know very little about him.
As for the theories about something significantly going wrong with the universe...I can't imagine that making her cry. Or maybe that's because the Potterverse itself never impressed me all that much. Or maybe it's because people matter more than buildings or magic.
Of course, I also don't think Hogwarts will fall. It doesn't make much sense to me that it would. Close for a while, maybe, but not fall. I mean, Harry has to be the new (and last) defense against the dark arts teacher. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think Neville and Sirius could give Harry and Snape some serious competition in the emotionally hurt and vulnerable department.
Sirius had a crazy mother, his best friend was killed, he was blamed for it and spent years in Azkaban, only to have to go into hiding when he got out, and was unable to spend a lot of time with Harry, the son of his dead best friend that he was blamed for killing whom he often seems to emotionally confuse for his dead best friend that...so on and so forth.
And of course Neville's parents were tortured to insanity, which seems to weigh on him heavily, to say nothing of his grandmother.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Voldemort's soul was ripped into pieces. I mean, he did it to himself, but still.
If Harry's scar is a Horcrux, if it can happen quasi-involuntarily, maybe Horcrux of Harry is made when he kills Voldemort and even though he appears to die, a shadow of him will live on. After all, he does have a lot of Voldemort's abilities.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I have no predictions (although I seriously hope CT is wrong [and I think that's first time I've ever even thought that] as I want Snape to be fully Snape).
But if Rowling pulls this off (I give her a 70% chance), it will be one of the most clutch performances in modern popular culture (including sports).
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Imelda Staunton, who plays Umbridge, was Bunty in Chicken Run and Mrs. Palmer in Sense and Sensibility. How funny. For some reason the only bit that my brain is linking to for Mr. Palmer is "House". You know who I mean.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
You know what puzzles me so much as I'm reading these replies? (scanning pages 2 and 3) I have gotten the impression that a large number of people think Harry has to die in killing Voldemort. But having finally read the books I see the prophecy sais "neither can live while the other survives." Harry's anxiety is that if he wishes to live, he will have to become a killer.
Becoming a killer is such a horrible thing that even Malfoy was unable to do it. That is Rowling's worldview, that is the contribution she is trying to make to our culture with all our toy guns and videogames. Killing someone is worse than being killed, and only the complex question of leaving Voldemort alive would induce Harry to pursue it. It's not just a judgement that Voldemort is evil and deserves to die. It's all about what the action of killing will do to Harry.
P.S. Though it gets weird at the point when one considers the morality of destroying a horcrux as compared with killing Voldemort himself.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
pooka -- it is that very theme, that killing is worse than being killed, that leaves me so baffled at the theory that Snape is really good and Dumbledore asked him to kill him. It just doesn't fit with one of the strongest themes in her series.
Of course, another theme of hers is that the world isn't black and white; it contains shades of gray. And of course, Harry will have to kill Voldemort. So we'll have to see how she ties this all together at the end.
I don't think Harry *has* to die in killing Voldemort, but there's no guarantee he'll live, either.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
The fact that Harry must be the one to kill Voldemort is this heavy truth that Dumbledore hid from Harry until Book 6.
(Also, I don't agree that Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him - just saying to clarify, not rebutting. It would be suicide as much as using a gun, and I don't see Dumbledore doing that just to adjust Harry's psychic ecology. Like I said, he may have told Snape he would have to fulfill the unbreakable curse...)
When I say "worse than" I'm not necessarily referring to a moral absolute kind of worse. I'm saying that the psychological barrier involved is as important as physical death would be. That's the whole point of having to kill someone to make a horcrux. I mean, I believe killing is necessary. But that's me. Rowling is so opposed to it, she didn't even have Umbridge die. But I guess Voldemort has to be the first person Harry kills.
Something that struck me as I was reading book 6 is how hard it must be for Aurors and other "good" wizards to not use the most powerful curses, since they apparently don't kill.
P.S. Back on page 4 there was discussion about whether Voldemort can tell when a Horcrux is destroyed. In book 6 it seemed pretty clear that he does know.
[ July 10, 2007, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: P.S. Back on page 4 there was discussion about whether Voldemort can tell when a Horcrux is destroyed. In book 6 it seemed pretty clear that he does know.
I thought book 6 was pretty clear that he did NOT know. If you've got a reference, let me know. In the meantime, I'm halfway through book 5 on my re-read and when I get up to book 6, I'll look for the part that made me think he did not know.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Well, I don't have my book at work, and I knew I wouldn't have time when I get home, so wiki will have to suffice:
quote:. Dumbledore later realises that the diary was a Horcrux, and one of many, and speculates that Voldemort only discovered that the Horcrux had been destroyed when he "forced the truth out of Lucius Malfoy", and "that his anger was terrible to behold".[13]
I guess the last book wouldn't be very fun if Voldemort knows the condition of the horcruxes, since he'd just keep killing people to keep it up. Good thing his paranoia is keeping him from knowing what Harry knows.
P.S. On the subject of Occlumency, I guess Voldemort also keeps out of Harry's mind because of how traumatized he was to feel Harry's longing to see Sirius at the end of OP. Feeling the pain that goes with loving someone is too overwhelming to Voldemort, so isn't Harry serving that impulse when he breaks up with Ginny?
P.P.S. Yeah, thinking it over, I think Harry will find a way to take Voldemort's power but die in the process, so that Voldemort doesn't have the power to kill people anymore. I refer back to the ending of Goblet of Fire when Dumbledore reacts to the news that Voldemort took some of Harry's blood. I don't know, is there ever any other reference to a good wizard killing someone? I don't think there is. I also think it's significant that Voldemort's current body is made from the bones of his father and the flesh from Pettigrew. Pettigrew was powerful enough to become an animagus, though, so maybe the bit about Harry someday being glad he spared Pettigrew's life will enter into the equation.
PPPS
Then again Black and Lupin were going to kill Pettigrew. But at that point I think they were more interested in revenge than being good. I think there may be the ministry standard whereby you can use dementors and sometimes execute people, and someone like Umbridge can rise to great heights, and then there is the commitment to good by which Dumbledore is the only wizard Voldemort fears. Voldemort only sees "Power, and those too weak to wield it".
Another thought is that perhaps by sparing Pettigrew's life, Harry actually owns 2/3rds of Voldemort's body, and the remaining 1/3rd is entirely muggle (Riddle's bones) so when Harry is killed, Voldemort will be a muggle. That's my bet.
[ July 10, 2007, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I have created a survey (that will be put in a spreadsheet) about what you think will happen and who you think will die in Deathly Hallows. Please comment at my lj, there are instructions for non members. After the book comes out Fugu13 is running statistics to see how well people did.
I have discovered how the seventh book will end...
scene: Voldemort and Draco are chasing Harry and Ron through hogwarts, all of whom are casting spells at eachother.
Suddenly, an idea enters Harry's head as he deflects a hex aimed at him from Draco.
"Ron", yelled Harry, "this way!"
Ron followed Harry throw the wide doors into the great hall. Quickly following them Voldemort and Draco burst through the doors after them, and suddenly skid to a halt. In front of them Harry stands behind a table, with two goblets of clear liquid in front of him, Ron standing to the side with a confused look on his face.
"What is the meaning of this." snarled Voldemort.
"One of these goblets contains water," explained Harry, "and the other contains poison that will kill you. Drink one of them."
Voldemort stared at the two goblets, with an expression of extreme concentration on his face.
"Sir, maybe if I-", started Draco.
"DO NOT INTERUPT MY THINKING!", shrieked Voldemort
"But-"
"Avada Kadavra!" yelled Voldemort as a green glow emitted from his wand and hit Draco squarely in the chest.
Voldemort slowly turned his attention back to the goblets, ignoring Draco's corpse completely. Slowly his hand moved out of his sleeves towards the goblet on the right in a rather snakelike manner. however at the last moment he pulled it back and pondered the goblets more.
"Hey look over there!" exlaimed Harry, while pointing in a random direction.
As Voldemort turned around harry quickly switched the goblets just in time before Voldemort turned back around.
"I didn't see anything." growled Voldemort.
"Oh, my mistake."
"Enough of this" said Voldemort as he grabbed the goblet on the right and gulped down the contents.
"You have drunk the poisoned goblet." Harry said, rather formally.
Voldemort began to choke, wheeze, and stagger, until he finally collapsed to the floor. Harry quickly ran to his side and pulled out his wand.
"Avada Kadavra!"
"What did you just do that for?" asked Ron.
"Because, they were both water."
THE END
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Aw, you forgot where Voldemort yells "Inconcievable!"
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Is there a reason Voldemort isn't on the list? Also, I think Zacharias Smith might be related to Hebsibah Smith. Smith is common enough but those jumped up Old Testament names are not. Maybe Zacharias is able to show them the hiding place of the cup.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
All right, here's the next page:
All of the sudden Hermione bursts into the room, scars all over her face and arms, and deeps slashes in her robes.
"Oh, thanks Harry, I am thirsty." Hermione states as she grasps the remaining goblet and downs the contents in a few quick gulps. Suddenly she too begins too choke, wheeze, and stagger until she collapses alongside of Voldemort.
Suddenly a shadowy form emerges from Voldemort's body, and takes the form of a ghost.
"Inconcievable!" exlaims Voldemort's ghost.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I figured Voldemort was a goner for sure, if you'd like I can add him to the list before I have many comments, or people can make note that they think he'll live.
And yeah Pooka, the Hepzibbah Smith thing was the reasoning for the Heir to Hufflepuff question.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
quote: Anyone else have a theory about what made her cry?
My mother says that JK Rowling is a mum of three and that therefore she (my mum, not JKR) suspects that the chapter that made her cry involves the death of one of the Weasleys. And Mrs. Weasley's subsequent grief and distress and whatnot.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Eh, I already said I thought Voldemort would be alive, but easily contained by muggles by the end. I think it's a shame blog comments don't allow editing, typically.
P.S. I think this interview about the crying is just to soften folks up for Harry's death.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I'm suprised, you're one of the first people I've ever seen say voldemort will live.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Actually I changed my mind. After he is a helpless Muggle, he gets staple sauced by Bellatrix. So I guess I have to take her off my "die" list.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Actually I changed my mind. After he is a helpless Muggle, he gets staple sauced by Bellatrix. So I guess I have to take her off my "die" list.
OK, I'm hooked...what in the world is 'staple sauced'?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Did any of you comment without leaving your names? If so can you tell me which one you were.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
"Staple sauce" is one of the ways a member of the teen girl squad dies in the episode with "driver's licence girl". I don't know why, but I often have that episode running through my head, more than the others and perhaps more than any other Strong Bad production.
P.S. I did think of a possible twist wherein Neville could be the chosen one, but it's a pretty far reach. Voldemort's followers rendered him a virtual orphan, which would be one way of marking him his equal.
[ July 11, 2007, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I think Rowling's said that Neville is definitely not the chosen one.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
No, Neville is not the chosen one. They made that clear at the end of book 5. I don't even need Rowling to quash it.
Am I the only one who is starting to get REALLY excited about the last book coming out. I've been going to Mugglenet every afternoon just to see their ticker go down a day.
What's everyone's plans for the book? Stand in line at midnight? Get it after a leisurely brunch on Saturday? Waiting for the post man to send it from amazon?
For me it's a whole Harry Potter weekend, starting with the fifth movie on Friday night, a release party, standing in line at midnight, and then a good night's sleep before my husband and I crack open the book on Saturday. He'll read it aloud to me. I've even got my parents to baby-sit for the whole weekend. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Am I the only one who is starting to get REALLY excited about the last book coming out.
I'm worried that I won't be able to finish books 5 and 6 in time. I wish I had more time! Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Am I the only one who is starting to get REALLY excited about the last book coming out.
I'm worried that I won't be able to finish books 5 and 6 in time. I wish I had more time!
Skip the illustrations at the beginning of each chapter and you just might make it Porter.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I wish I hadn't started reading them so early. I finished book 6 a couple of weeks ago, and it's been painful waiting.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I've just restarted six which is helping.
I am going to a local independent bookstore, then coming home and reading. I'd like to be done by 6 pm Saturday but I'm not sure how likely that is.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
My current plan is to be there when the warehouse store opens on Saturday morning. As far as I know, my daughter doesn't have any friends trying to talk her into a release party. Though I guess if we go to a release party there will be some hours we could read that we would otherwise waste sleeping. I don't think we'll get through it before Sunday.
P.S. And then I don't know if I'll have the self control not to just read the last scene before I go to bed.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
P.S. And then I don't know if I'll have the self control not to just read the last scene before I go to bed.
I used to do things like this....but not in a long time and definitely not for this book. I've been looking forward to this too much to ruin the reading experience by peaking at the end. I don't even want to know what the last word is. (Although, apparently, it is no longer "scar.")
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I got to finish the last few chapters of HBP But they will make me cry. I hate that deeply.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
My mom ordered a copy for my sister and I to share. Since my sister is older, she will get to read it first.
Unfortunately, it will probably take her a couple of weeks to read, while if I read it first I would be done before the end of the weekend.
So what's my Deathly Hallows theory? That someone on Hatrack will accidentaly spoil it for me. I might not even go on Hatrack until I am finished with the book.
PLEASE, HATRACKERS, DO NOT POST DEATHLY HALLOWS SPOILERS UNLESS THE FORUM IS CLEARLY MARKED DEATHLY HALLOWS (SPOILERS).
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Let's see...
Harry will not die, and I doubt Ron, Hermione, or Ginny will either (although I could be wrong). Major physical or mental disfigurements would not be unexpected, though.
Snape will die heroically, and it will be revealed that he's gone through all this to get the chance to bring down Voldemort, who killed his love, Lily. Snape hates Harry because Lily died for him (and because Harry looks like James). At some point Harry and Snape will have to work together, just because I can't imagine JK would pass up that opportunity.
Dumbledore told Snape to fulfill his vow. It's possible that when he did Dumbledore did not know what that might mean, but he didn't shy from it. I also agree that Dumbledore knew he was dying and let Snape kill him to further solidify Snape's position with the Dark Lord.
I do not think Snape is a good guy. I do think he wants to kill Voldemort and bring down the Death Eaters because of Lily, but that doesn't mean he can't also hate Dumbledore and everyone else at Hogwarts. There are still signs he isn't completely evil, or at least he has his own agenda. He didn't let Malfoy kill, and he didn't let Harry complete any Unforgiveable Curses.
I don't necessarily think this will happen, but the death of a Weasley that would have the most impact would be Molly. Just sayin'.
I think Hermione will rouse the house-elves, and Harry will rouse the muggles, because what army could possibly anger Voldemor more than them?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
otterk, with Half Blood Prince there was a thread started on Friday evening with "HPB Spoilers" and I think most if not all spoilers were contained there. It might be best to not read any harry potter threads until you're done though.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I think Hermione will rouse the house-elves, and Harry will rouse the muggles, because what army could possibly anger Voldemort more than them?
I could see this happen, but in reverse. I can see Hermione TRY to rouse the house-elves but get no response. I think Harry or even Ron might be able to get them to help, if for no other reason than they haven't been leaving hats and socks everywhere.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think Harry would choose to mess with Muggles either, since he hasn't had many good experiences with them. Possibly Hermione.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
I just thought of something. Everyone seems to have their own theory, but their proof is based on something that happened in the book, but not the movie.
For example, many people are making way too big of a deal about the triumphant look Dumbledore had at the end of GoF. However, since this was not portrayed in the movie, I doubt that the look reveals the key to defeating Voldemort.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Or it could just be that the director didn't pay much attention. I don't consider things changed for the movie to be cannon.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by otterk10: I just thought of something. Everyone seems to have their own theory, but their proof is based on something that happened in the book, but not the movie.
For example, many people are making way too big of a deal about the triumphant look Dumbledore had at the end of GoF. However, since this was not portrayed in the movie, I doubt that the look reveals the key to defeating Voldemort.
It's not the look, but rather what the look was in response to. In both the book and the movie, Harry's blood was used to resurrect Voldemort. That's what's significant. Dumbledore's look was merely a hint that it was significant. The fact that it doesn't happen in the movie makes no difference.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
In all seriousness, I think that either Harry or Ginny will die, but just one of them. I also suspect Hagrid will die.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
At any rate, the screenwriters and directors of the movies didn't exactly have an inside track to what details Rowling would make significant in Book 7.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I didn't think the movie even showed the scene in which Harry told Dumbledore about his attack. It's been a while, so I could be wrong, but I think they skipped the whole scene and really, why would they show it? Even the book summarizes the scene because Harry's just recapping something we saw live. If the movie had put it in, that would be an awful lot of wasted footage for one potentially significant look. I wouldn't put it in the movie even if I did have an inside track into Rowling's head and knew it was important. There's nothing in that look that can't be insinuated from the fact that Voldemort took Harry's blood.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
I really think Hagrid is going to die. I just can't imagine her killing off another character with a significant role in the story, but she will kill off a character that's loved, IMO. Hagrid fits that. He doesn't really do much, he's just someone everyone likes.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
Harry's going to have to team up with Kreacher to find the Horcruxes, and it's going to be awful because of the role Kreacher played in Sirius's death.
McGonagall is going to turn out to be bad.
I also just thought of an awful thing: what if Harry comes to terms with Snape by going through the same thing Snape went through, i.e., losing the girl he loves? Eek, don't want Ginny to die.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I wouldn't be surprised if Kreacher happens to have a horcrux, hidden in his nest at the Black house.
That, or Harry will have to visit Mundungus Fletcher to find that heavy locket mentioned in passing in OotP. Since he's been stealing from the house I wouldn't be surprised if he has it.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
We're fairly certain Kreacher has the locket. I have a tendency to think that RAB may have collected more than one horcrux, and that Kreacher has several of them. The locket was left out of the Order of the Phoenix movie, but they did show Kreacher collecting stuff. Assuming that Kreacher was originally going to be left out of the movie until Rowling told them he would be needed in book 7, the collection could be very important.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
The look in Dumbledore's eye is just an example of what I'm talking about. A better example would be the crackpot theory that Dumbledore is Ron in the future. Proponents of the theory cite that Dumbledore was described in the books as having orange hair when he was younger. However, the 7th movie would be seem really stupid if Dumbledore is Ron.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Rowling has said that no one in the books is Ron or Harry from the future. That was a fun theory, but it's ruled out.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think we are certain Kreacher has the locket, it is very possible Mundungus might.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
Ok, here are my final predictions.
Harry owns 2/3 of Voldemort's body, while a muggle owns the other 1/3. By destroying his scar, Harry will turn himself as well as Voldemort into a muggle.
Hagrid will die by protecting Gwarp, so Harry will become the groundskeeper at Hogwarts.
Percy Weasley will die.
Draco Malfoy will become good, but will die.
Pettigrew will kill Greyback with his silver hand.
Ron and Hermione will marry.
I've gone back and forth about Snape. Right now I'm leaning towards him being good, but that might change in the next couple of days.
Sirius will make an appearance.
Dudley will perform magic.
The threesome will have to spend a significant amount of time at Hogwarts to track down the horcruxes.
The final battle will take place at Hogwarts.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
I think Mrs. Weasley will die saving Percy.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Some of you should comment on my lj post linked on the previous page.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by otterk10: Pettigrew will kill Greyback with his silver hand.
Sirius will make an appearance.
Dudley will perform magic.
The first of these has been explicitly ruled out by Rowling. I'm fairly sure the second and third have as well, but I'm not 100% certain.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Last I looked none of those had been ruled out, maybe I need to look again.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
First was ruled out recently.
Not sure about the other two though....I thought it was Petunia whp was NOT doing magic, not Dudly.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I really hope Harry doesn't become a Muggle. Let him live or kill him, but don't take the magic away!
Posted by firebird (Member # 1971) on :
There are so many great predictions in here and I don't want to miss any of them in HP DH quiz I am putting together.
If you have a moment, could you put some of your predictions / burning questions to be answered into multiple choice form and put them in the HP DH Quiz thread? I am slowly reading through the eight pages here but some might get missed out.
The final quiz will be posted here on Thursday or Friday for those wishing to take park.
Thanks for you help!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Another few predictions: The first part of the novel will deal with the summer, and the three will either find a horcrux or learn that one is at Hogwarts. Assuming the school opens, they return merely as a cover in order to look for the horcrux.
Wouldn't the Death Eaters be suspicious if Hogwarts reopened and Harry wasn't there?
Also...has anyone considered Tom Riddle's "Special Services to the School" trophy as a horcrux?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was also thinking that Mrs. Weasley would die saving one of her family -- Percy being a top choice.
So last night I had this dream where RAB used the Horcrux he stole to create another copy of Voldemort and that there are now 2 Voldemort's wandering around, fighting each other for the right to kill Harry.
Hmmmm...not proposing it as a prediction or anything but it was an interesting dream.
On a side note, I just took a HP quiz on Mugglenet. There seem to be a lot of opportunities to shout out your own predictions about what's going on. So, firebird, if you're looking for ideas, you might want to go there for a few. Anyway, I'm now hoping that I haven't spent so much time making predictions that the book doesn't turn out to disappoint me in the end.....nah! I still think it's in good fun. Although I will be irked at her if she tries to redeem Snape. I gave him a thorough tongue-lashing on my own blog the other day. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Also...has anyone considered Tom Riddle's "Special Services to the School" trophy as a horcrux? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting thought.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
quote:Also...has anyone considered Tom Riddle's "Special Services to the School" trophy as a horcrux? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting thought.
Of course, Ron vomitting slugs all over it may have destroyed it. Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
quote:Also...has anyone considered Tom Riddle's "Special Services to the School" trophy as a horcrux? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting thought.
Of course, Ron vomitting slugs all over it may have destroyed it.
This is an interesting thought but I think it isn't -- mostly because, among other things, Voldemort wants to disassociate himself with his "filthy muggle father's name."
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine:
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by pooka:
quote:Also...has anyone considered Tom Riddle's "Special Services to the School" trophy as a horcrux? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting thought.
Of course, Ron vomitting slugs all over it may have destroyed it.
This is an interesting thought but I think it isn't -- mostly because, among other things, Voldemort wants to disassociate himself with his "filthy muggle father's name."
True, but it also could be seen as a token of his opening the Chamber of Secrets. Of course that would be a bit redundant, as that was the purpose of the diary as well.
However much he might have hated his name, Voldy might have loved Hogwarts more.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by otterk10: Pettigrew will kill Greyback with his silver hand.
Sirius will make an appearance.
Dudley will perform magic.
The first of these has been explicitly ruled out by Rowling. I'm fairly sure the second and third have as well, but I'm not 100% certain.
Are you sure that this was ruled out? I know she ruled out Pettigrew killing Lupin but I hadn't heard anything about Greyback.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
She did, in fact, rule out Grayback being killed with Wormtail's hand as Serius making a reappearance; however, Dudley may well perform magic. She only ruled out Petunia as a possibility on that one.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
How recently did she rule ot Greyback? I remember when I checked a couple of weeks ago only Lupin was ruled out, which led me to believe that Pettigrew would kill Greyback.
Has Bill been ruled out too?
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
Can you (or anybody) link to where she ruled out Greyback? I'm interested in reading what she had to say. I did read that Petunia has not and will not ever perform magic and that Sirius will not come back to life but I've never seen the comment on Greyback and can't find it on her site.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I can't find that Sirius won't come back to life on her site either. So none of those three things Lisa said were ruled out are on her site, I'm checking Mugglenet.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
If a debunked rumor is not on this site or JK Rowlings site, I would not consider it cannon.
Maybe I hadn't read that Sirius won't come back to life then.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
See I'm not sure he will come back to life but I do think he will appear in more than a flashback.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
Oh, I agree with that. I think that we will see some interesting stuff to do with the Veil and the voices heard from behind it.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
You know what...I was confused. The debunked rumor (on www.mugglenet.com, which is a site I trust when it comes to HP info) is actually that Wormtail will not kill LUPIN with his hand. It doesn't rule out Graback....so who knows?
As for Sirius being dead...I'm sure I read that in an interview with Rowling after the fifth book came out. In the same interview, she mentioned being in tears when she wrote his death. i remember it because Sirius' death didn't really affect me that much. Anyway, I can't find the interview now. I am sure, however, that Sirius is dead and staying dead and that Rowling has said so, even if it is not on her site. You can choose to believe me or not. I admit, I have to physical proof. Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Still think he's dead, still think he'll be there.
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
She said that Sirius is dead, but did not rule out Harry communicating with him (Harry goes beyond the viel or with the two-way mirrors). That is what I meant when I said that Sirius will make another appearance.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by otterk10: She said that Sirius is dead, but did not rule out Harry communicating with him (Harry goes beyond the viel or with the two-way mirrors). That is what I meant when I said that Sirius will make another appearance.
That is possible, but don't forget that Harry tried that mirror already at the end of book 5. Also, I don't think Sirius had it with him when he died. Of course I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think Sirius will be in book 7 except as a memory (or maybe a photo).
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
I just spent two days reading all 8 pages of this thread. Y'all have made me think of many, many things. Someone here or there has stated all the predictions I have made and many of you have made me think of others I never would have conceived of.
My Professor Trelawny costume is ready and my step-daughters and I will dine at PF Chang's (in costume) before going to the mid-night release. I hope my husband goes and drives so that I can read all the way home. If not, I don't think I'll get much sleep this weekend (or much housework done) because I have to finish the book before Girl's Camp next week. PLUS! I want to be one of the original posters and not have to read 8 pages of posts at once.
Thank you all for your insights. I am VERY excited to see how JK concludes this most beloved series.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by aretee: I have to finish the book before Girl's Camp next week. PLUS! I want to be one of the original posters and not have to read 8 pages of posts at once.
LOL! I'm afraid there will almost certainly be at least 2-3 pages by the middle of next week, which means I'm just going to have to read (or more likely -- skim) them all. I'd love to finish in a day but we read it aloud and we have a toddler.
Anyone else going in costume? I hadn't even thought about it...I was just going to put on my "Republicans for Voldemort" shirt which, admittedly, is a little faded. I went to www.goats.com to order another one on Sunday but it would take 2-4 weeks to get here so I guess it's my well-worn version. Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There will likely be five or six pages of a thread that is enitirely "I read the book in ________ hours no spoilers" and probably five to ten pages by late Sunday of a spoiler thread. Of course posting has gone down since 05.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I'm predicting that Harry's scar is (was) the last Horacrux but that Voldemort somehow altered it when he regenerated using Harry's blood. Voldemort will not be aware of this.
Harry, Ron and Hermione will discover that Harry is the final horocrux and believe that Harry must die for Voldemort to be killed. Harry will be prepared to give his life. But he will live.
Harry will be captured by death eaters and brought before Voldemort who desires to kill Harry and create a more suitable Horocrux. Snape will know that this won't work because Voldemort used Harry's blood to regenerate and this knowledge will be used to save Harry.
I'm putting my money on Harry living but that at least one of his closest friends (Ron, Hermione and Ginny) if not all of them die.
Remember you read it here first.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I'm also predicting that Harry, Ron and Hermione will forbid Ginny to work with them for her safety. She will then team up with Neville and Luna. At some point this team will save Harry's life probably and great cost.
Hogwarts won't open until after Voldemort is killed but it will be used as a base for the Order.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I can't post in this thread anymore. I'm on chapter six, and my work computer is down, so I have nothing to do but read. Muahahaha...
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
and I really, really hope it's not true. Not because of who dies, but because it'll be the 2nd HP book I ruined for myself. In the 5th book I somehow managed to accidently read the one sentence that says explicity, and in capital letters because Harry is shouting IIRC, who dies before I started reading the book. It was the worst. I think I was flipping to the end to see how many pages there was or something like that and that one sentence just caught my eyes. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Even if Voldemort heard the whole prophecy he still wouldn't know that he might transfer his power to him. And I don't get why it'd be more practical to wait and see who is more dangerous before killing him. The one that he wants to kill will be harder to kill when he's older, Voldemort had the right idea trying to kill the kid when he's a baby. And why not just kill both babies? He's Voldemort.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
But I'm pretty sure for myself that this revelation will mean everyone has to go back and reread all the books with the characters now straight to get a very different story. ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)