So I've been hit with some Creationist ideas from various sources. As a firm Evolutionist, I enjoy listening to these ideas so I can better and more reasonably argue against them.
One idea that has become popular is that the Dinosaurs existed during the time of man and in Eden since before the fall, death did not exist. This argument later goes on to help explain how all those animals survived so well in the Ark (Carnivores were turned back into their pre-fall Herbivoric true selves for the duration) and it deepens the meaning of the Lion laying down with the Lamb, referring to the pre-fall universal vegetarianism that is true Paradise.
(Unless your a plant.)
I never considered that there were no animal deaths before the fall. My first thought was, wow--Adam was bald. After all, hair is dead cells, so if no cells died, then he would have no hair. Then I thought, wow, what did they use for skin? Skin is dead cells too. When Adam was made in God's image then God must look like a Dead Skinless hominid.
Since the fall, we've begun to look less and less like God.
OK. I can see that.
But what about the bugs?
If there were no animal deaths then we would soon be waste deep in various microbe's, bugs, and other fast reproducers.
Unless there was no sex, no reproduction before the fall.
My mind ran with that. Perhaps Adam and Eve looked identical, sexless, skinless, bald people. If there were no births than why would women have breasts? Why would either have any reproductive organs? Unless God knew that we would fall, and already prepared us for that.
Or unless there was sex and reproduction before the fall, but limited to a more controllable amount for those animals that normally reproduce.
So instead of a Spider laying thousand's of eggs of which only one or two reach maturity, it might lay just one or two.
(Side question: Adam named all the animals. There was no death. How then do we end up with so many animals with death in their name? Like the Black Widow Spiders. Adam did not know death, so could not know what a Widow was. They must have been renamed later. I wonder if there would be some mystical power granted to the person who discovered the animals true Adamic name? Keep note for later story).
Back to the sex. I could find no note or reference that said there was no reproduction in Eden. In fact I find the idea of Paradise without children to be less than perfect. So lets give Adam and Eve their reproductive organs back.
But we have to remember that birth, before the fall, was not painful. The pain of childbirth was something that has cursed women since the fall.
What causes the pain of childbirth?
The passing of the babies large head through the birth canal.
There are three scientific possibilities of why delivering a child was painless before the fall, and painful after the fall.
1) The Birth Canal and hips of Eve were wider before the fall.
2) Pain and the associated neural receptors for that were not in place before the fall.
3) The human head was smaller before the fall.
While each of these is possible, only one has support from the Bible.
Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Eve got smarter, as did Adam.
When a species begins to get smarter, their head gets larger.
What was before a wonderful experience, now becomes painful.
Intelligence, what so many of us claim will give us the answers to the universe, are what gives our mothers, and our selves, such pain.
Over intelligence, what many call Intellectualism, is not a saving grace, but the result of our fall, and until we give up our brains and seek out the simple, then we shall never find paradise.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
"I never considered that there were no animal deaths before the fall. My first thought was, wow--Adam was bald. After all, hair is dead cells, so if no cells died, then he would have no hair."
I'm not sure cell death is the same as animal death. The Christian perspective on abortion seems to support that.
Posted by the doctor (Member # 6789) on :
Fun thoughts!
Vonnegut scooped you on that last bit, though.
Galapagos Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: (Unless your a plant.)
Funny. That's what I always say to vegetarians. Celery has feelings too!
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
The whole bigger head thing supports evolution after the fall at least.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
But if Adam and Eve had small heads, and were stupid, and they were made in God's image, how small is God's head?
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :