This is topic Finally - an explanation for an impending ecological disaster in which I am blameless in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
Unfunny topic and I am not sure what they could do about it if this is the case. The serious matter of the vanishing honeybees has been discussed elsewhere, but this is an interesting little theory that is getting some serious play.
Seems like it would be easy to test out on a small scale...
quote: A mysterious malady that is causing honeybees to disappear en masse from their hives in parts of North America and Europe may be linked to radiation from cellphones and other high-tech communications devices, a study by German researchers suggests.
While the theory has created a lot of buzz in the beekeeping world, apiarists say there could be any number of reasons why the bees are deserting their hives and presumably dying off in large numbers, including changing weather patterns and mite or other kinds of infestations.
What they do agree on is that whatever is causing the phenomenon, known as colony collapse disorder (CCD), it is playing havoc with the production of honey and other products from the hive – and threatening the growing of fruit and vegetable crops, which depend on bees for pollination.
The small study, led by Prof. Jochen Kuhn of Landau University, suggests that radiation from widely used cellphones may mess up the bees' homing abilities by interfering with the neurological mechanisms that govern learning and memory. It also appears to disrupt the insects' ability to communicate with each other.
I do not use a cell phone and have refused several opportunities to get one or have one given to me. My dislike has nothing to do with any of the health scares or this latest.
But I can now go around telling people at work (*everyone* else has a cell phone) that they are killing the honeybees and I am blameless.
Blameless.
::Am enjoying the sensation until this study is inevitably debunked::
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Its not clear from the article, but do they suspect individual cellphones or cell phone towers?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Mucus,
I don't know. I suspect more details of the research will come out.
But I am really enjoying the fact that this is one instance in which I can point the finger at everyone else and take the moral high ground.
As a carbon fuel-using, trash producing, trash disposing, occasional user of disposable plates, enjoyer of nonorganic meat and vegetables, there is little else I can escape blame in when it comes to negatively impacting the environment.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
But do you drive an SUV?
-pH
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
does it use ethonol?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
No, SUV, but I drive a 1989 full-size chevy van.
Not by choice.
Diane and I need something with a wheelchair lift in a vehicle. I would love something smaller and better on gas, but we can't really see our way toward the 45-50k needed for an accessible minivan.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Blayne,
ethanol isn't a solution, it's a successful lobbying effort of corn growers to keep their prices up.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It may be part of a solution, but as it is now sndrake is right.
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
NUKE THE WHALES!
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
If the environuts can make it so I don't have to carry a cellphone, then some good will have come out of this afterall...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
We're working on it.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Science Friday did a segment on the issue (realaudio): http://tinyurl.com/2xvqmr Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by RunningBear: NUKE THE WHALES!
I have this T-shirt showing a whale encased in hamburger buns, with the caption "Intelligent food for intelligent people". Alas, my mother wouldn't let me take it to the US with me. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by sndrake: No, SUV, but I drive a 1989 full-size chevy van.
Not by choice.
Diane and I need something with a wheelchair lift in a vehicle. I would love something smaller and better on gas, but we can't really see our way toward the 45-50k needed for an accessible minivan.
Yeah, I've been there! Are you familiar with The Disabled Dealer magazine as a source for used wheelchair vans. I've used them as a source to sell an old van. I bought a used wheelchair van from a local dealer. New ones are very pricey, but you might be able to swing a used. And sell the old one (through the Disabled Dealer) to someone who wants it.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Tante,
We'll probably use that publication as well as using our network (which includes our lift repair guy) for alerts on something that is a good deal.
I don't know how many people checked out that link, but it can be a real eye-opener for people to see that even a used van costs more than most people spend on a new vehicle.
And we are definitely not into luxury - it's the price we pay so Diane can have full access to employment and the rest of the community.
There's someone in Congress (I don't remember who) who floats the idea once in awhile to give people with disabilities tax-exemptions for the extra expenses incurred that are disability-related. Unlike tax breaks for the rich, that one never seems to get anywhere.
And honestly, neither of us spend much energy on it since we have it much better than most of the people with disabilities we know. We can pay our bills and spend a few dollars on entertainment.
That's not exactly typical for many people with disabilities.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Back to the original topic...
I am now telling Diane
"every time you use your cell phone a honeybee dies"
I think it got old after the first time I said it, so I will probably stop now. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Ahem.
The decline of the wild honeybee began before the mass introduction of either cell phones or cell towers. It was well documented and established before the nineties.
I'm skeptical that cell phone radiation is the cause of dwindling hives.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
quote:Originally posted by sndrake: ethanol isn't a solution, it's a successful lobbying effort of corn growers to keep their prices up.
Ethanol doesn't have to be made only of corn. As far as corn production goes, you're most likely right. But as for as the other products that can be used to make ethanol (forestry wastes, paper wastes, brewery wastes, etc etc etc), although they aren't viable yet, they will be.
Ethanol itself isn't a end-all-and-be-all solution, but its a better alternative to gasoline in that it takes carbon out of the atmosphere (instead of underground) before putting it back into the atmosphere when it's burned (as long as the production of it does not use up more gasoline than the produced ethanol replaces). That's why the above mentioned wastes are the best bet for ethanol in the future.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote: Ahem.
The decline of the wild honeybee began before the mass introduction of either cell phones or cell towers. It was well documented and established before the nineties.
I'm skeptical that cell phone radiation is the cause of dwindling hives.
Sheesh.
Way to rain on my guilt-free parade, Scott.
Like I said, this should be relatively easy to replicate - and therefore verify or debunk.
Until then, I will joyfully point fingers in self-righteous indulgence.
This has at least one upside to it - it's one more reason to get this crisis bumped in the news and maybe make some impact on public awareness. I remember that last month the Trib published a story on the honeybee problem and it was on page 11 or so of the first section. A local media commentator mentioned that it said something about the decisions for article placement when this article was probably the most important article of that day's issue of the Trib and it ended up buried in the "A" section.
Posted by Snail (Member # 9958) on :
*gasp*
But... but... Cell phones are the basis of Finnish economy!
German researchers, eh? Bull. More likely they were Swedish researchers dressed as German researchers. I'll get them for this. Hmm... "IKEA furniture killed the dinosaurs"? No, a bit far fetched perhaps. Have to think of something better. Seriously though, what an evil ploy.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Bees have had an uneven history, there have certainly been declines and recoveries associated with some specific problems such as varroa mites and pesticides like Sevin.
But this phenomenon, Colony Collapse Disorder, seems very different than anything seen before. Specifically, this is much more rapid and widespread than previous declines and is peculiar in that colony losses are occurring mostly because bees are failing to return to the hive (which is largely uncharacteristic of bee behavior). Traditional causes of decline leave dead bees in the hive, which helps with analysis.
Healthy skepticism is always in order, but there are some persuasive indications that should also leave you skeptical that CCD is a continuation of previous declines.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Well said, orlox. I was gearing up to make much the same post, but I don't think I'd have worded it so concisely.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
The discipline of hunt and peck typing!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
There has been no recovery in American (wild) hives since the varroa mite was introduced.
I'm further skeptical about the report you linked.
We start wintering our hives here in Virginia in the fall. Now, granted-- I'm not a commercial beekeeper. I don't know how they go about keeping their hives alive all winter long. For us, we have to close them up (mostly); and our bees move to the center of the hives to keep warm. We take off the honey supers to minimize the space the bees have to heat.
Our bees do not generally fly around in the last three months of the year; they're busy keeping warm inside the hive.
So when people start talking about a mass migration of bees out of their hives in the late fall/early winter...I think that they're either mistaken, or I've been doing something terribly wrong. (Which is entirely possible)
Think about it-- there's no forage for bees in winter. Why would they leave the hive at all?
*Note-- I notice that CCD was first reported by a migratory beekeeper in FL; so it's possible. I'm wary of claims of CCD in the Mid-Atlantic in February-- those places should DEFINITELY be wintering their hives. Bees shouldn't (in my opinion) be leaving anyway.
The fact that they ARE leaving in the dead of winter, to me, is more of a warning sign than the fact that they're not coming back.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:But I can now go around telling people at work (*everyone* else has a cell phone) that they are killing the honeybees and I am blameless.
Ah, but do you purchase any products from companies that DO use cell phones? Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
As though that was even possible.
Even the organic vendors at the farmers market have them.
But this gives me an idea. It's wrong of me to heap scorn on people who need cell phones to engage in their business endeavors.
I have wisely and generously foregone the luxury of a cell phone. Others are contributing to the collapse of entire hives with their wanton use of the things.
I propose something to ease the karmic burdens on cell phone users.
I will sell the cell phone time I am not using. The buyer will know that supporting me economically, they can maintain their own irresponsible lifestyle but feel better about it.
And I get to help out my fellow human being and raise my standard of living (and raising it doesn't include a cell phone).
I need to work out a fair and equitable formula based on the assumption that I would be using a cell phone 16 hours a day if I had one.
I hope he's right. From the article, there is effective and cheap treatment for this parasite.
Thanks, Farmgirl.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Clearly the bees are failing as the vital essences of their sacrifices have been retained through greater availability of the epi-pen.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Wow, I really hope that's it. Thank you so much, Farmgirl. I know a bunch of people who will be glad to hear the hopeful update.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
On a random note, my friend just harvested 2 1/2 gallons of honey from their backyard hive, which I think is totally cool.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Hope they get to testing American bees immedietly if they are not already. Really hope this is it as the treatment is quite easy.
Somebody should see if Scott knows about this.
Thanks Farmgirl!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
The virus is named for Israel, but is believed to have arrived via Australia.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
The bees ran away because they want attention, the longer you feed that desire by wondering whats happening the longer they'll stay away. We all need to just ignore their demands for attention, even when they come home.
Posted by DSH (Member # 741) on :
The use of the term "cellphone radiation" is really misleading. Most people think x-rays, gamma rays, cosmic rays, etc. when they hear the word "radiation"
Cellphones emit radio waves.
So do all AM and FM broadcast radio stations and all broadcast TV stations and all satellite TV and radio services and all police, fire and EMS services (not only their two-way radios, but police radar guns too [non-laser]) and all amateur and CB radios and all cordless phones and all baby monitors (and any other wireless audio/video monitoring systems) and all FRS/GMRS "walkie-talkies" and all microwave ovens and all wi-fi computer equipment and all "radio" controlled cars/planes/boats and all military and civilian aviation and weather radar and all fluorescent light fixtures and all electric motors, generators and alternators
Radio waves even come from the farthest reaches of space.
To be fair, radio waves are classed as "electromagnetic radiation", but so is visible light. Ionizing radiation is what living creatures need to be worried about (except maybe cockroaches )
If we could see radio waves like we see light, it would never get dark. I don't think the proliferation of cellphones is gonna do much more than brighten things up a bit.
And if it turns out that cellphone "radiation" is harmful... I'm gonna be more worried about MY exposure than that of the beleaguered bee population! Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I harvested our sunflower seeds yesterday and was sorely disappointed to find out that many of the seeds didn't develop because they weren't pollinated.
Clearly, this is a sign that we need to get some honeybees of our own.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I harvested our sunflower seeds yesterday and was sorely disappointed to find out that many of the seeds didn't develop because they weren't pollinated.
Clearly, this is a sign that we need to get some honeybees of our own.
You know Porter, you are just as capable of pollinating plants as a honey bee. You might consider that route, rather then just expecting the little buggers to do your work for you. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Porter:
It's a fun, fun, hobby, but can be expensive at first until you get all your materials.
I suggest you start out small-- one or two hives. But be sure to buy extra hardware for more hives, because you'll almost definitely have to split hives in midsummer.
I seem to recall that a starter hive of about 20000 bees + queen costs $50-$120 dollars, depending on the breed. Hive bodies cost between $25-$75 dollars/piece. Then there's the bee suits; DO NOT purchase a hood/helmet combo that closes via pullstring. Get one that zips. Trust me. I personally prefer a type of jacket/hood combination of bee-suit; I've never had any bees land on my pants, so I don't see the need for a full suit to protect that area-- regular long pants with a rubber band around the ankle usually do fine.
A small set up can usually yield about 20 lbs of honey in the spring and up to 60 at the end of the summer. I think that's what we averaged with three-four hives.
You'll need to buy a smoker (cheap) and cotton paddies to burn; or, if you've got pine needles laying around, you can use those. Anything that produces a clean, white smoke with very little smell. You can find most of these materials on the internet, or in beekeeping magazines.
There are a lot of beekeepers going out of business right now, so it's a good time to buy supplies.
We used a hand-cranked extractor to harvest the honey; I think that ran about $200. Electric ones are more expense, but not as much fun. You'll need a capping knife (either steam or electric; ours was electric and cost like...$25, I think).
Good luck!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
If you grew honey, Porter, I would totally buy some. My husband is very excited about raw honey. (you aren't currently in production, right, Scott?)
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Pooka--
Right.
It's not easy to find raw (that is, unpasteurized) honey. Your best bet is to look at farmers' markets; you want to find some that's harvested locally, not imported.
When we were selling honey, we sold almost our whole stock to the Made In Virginia store. Ours was the only honey that was actually made and bottled in Virginia. Go figure. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Ain't just honeybees. Bumblebee are undergoing a die off too, along with other pollinator bees, wasps, and even flies. Since it is highly unlikely that such varied species are all being attacked by honeybee parasites&bacteria&viruses, there's almost gotta be something(s) relatively new (at least in concentration) that's seriously messing up their environment or their immune systems.
[ October 30, 2007, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
We'll probably use that publication as well as using our network (which includes our lift repair guy) for alerts on something that is a good deal.
I don't know how many people checked out that link, but it can be a real eye-opener for people to see that even a used van costs more than most people spend on a new vehicle.
And we are definitely not into luxury - it's the price we pay so Diane can have full access to employment and the rest of the community.
There's someone in Congress (I don't remember who) who floats the idea once in awhile to give people with disabilities tax-exemptions for the extra expenses incurred that are disability-related. Unlike tax breaks for the rich, that one never seems to get anywhere.
And honestly, neither of us spend much energy on it since we have it much better than most of the people with disabilities we know. We can pay our bills and spend a few dollars on entertainment.
That's not exactly typical for many people with disabilities.
A good friend of mine was tired of being stuck in his wc accessable mini-van, and he really wanted a Mazda RX8 when they came out. The problem was getting a wc into a RX8. Well, he has OI and given that he is only 3 ft. tall, he uses a child size wheel chair. Working with a company that specializes in converting vehicles, he modified a lift to fit in the back of the car. They took the rear seat out and placed the lift and chair on a platform.
Here are some pictures.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
BTW, Chris also came up with a design for wheel-chair spinners. You can see them here.
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