quote: • Number of attacks on homeless at highest level in almost a decade • 122 attacks, 20 murders in 2006, according to National Coalition for the Homeless • For some teens, "this passes as amusement," expert says
quote: "It's disturbing to know that young people would literally kick someone when they're already down on their luck," said Michael Stoops, the executive director of the Washington-based National Coalition for the Homeless. "We recognize that this isn't every teenager, but for some this passes as amusement."
Criminologists call these wilding sprees "sport killing," -- largely middle-class teens, with no criminal records, assaulting the homeless with bats, golf clubs, paintball guns.
Some teens have even taped themselves in the act. Others have said they were inspired by "Bumfights," a video series created in 2002 and sold on the Web that features homeless people pummeling each other for the promise of a few bucks.
This disturbs me to no end. For a segment of a couple of months during my late teens, I was homeless. While that was partially of my own choosing (I was a little messed up), it still really gets to me when I see things like this happening. Hopefully the poor man is in a better place now.
Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
In my parents' town, some frat boys were caught shooting at a homeless man in the alley behind their house. They didn't kill him, but daaaaaamn.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
This reminds me of the story of the mentally disabled (and homeless?) man who was encouraged to drink floor cleaner on a dare at a donut shop.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I also read in my newspaper a story about 'homeless dumping', or something along those lines. A homeless parapalegic was dumped by an ambulance on the curb and abandoned there.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh no.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
A delight for me to be in Vancouver: with the coming Olympics scheduled, our mayor has begun to set into motion a substantive structure for addressing the homeless and others in the street population. My sweetheart is helping work on substance abuse treatment delivery and assessment, and he has spoken with Sam Sullivan at a recent conference about how to do this part of it effectively.
Sullivan is very specifically against the "pick 'em up, bus 'em out, dump 'em down somewhere else" strategy that has been employed at some previous Olympics host cities. Vancouver has until 2010 -- hopefully this will actually be put into place instead of the dumping.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
There's a lot of callousness in the world around us. It really makes me sad when people get satisfaction off others' pain. It really pushes my buttons when I see or hear people setting up poor people to fight over food, expressing hope that a some criminal get raped and beaten in prison, treating the homeless as some sort of subspecies to be hurt, promising illegal immigrants work and then dropping the whole truckful off in front of Immigration offices, or mocking and ridiculing the mentally ill because of their condition.
I just don't see how people can treat their fellow humans like this Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:. . . hope that a some criminal get raped and beaten in prison . . .
FWIW, I don't see this as quite on the same moral plane as the other examples you listed. I'm not excusing it, but I think what you're seeing there is a frustration with the formal punishment aspect of our legal system. It's a shameful thought, but it's the hope that the unofficial punishment will pick up the slack for the official punishment. I also think there is a distinction in the victim under consideration. A murderer or rapist is not morally the same as an innocent homeless or mentally ill or handicapped person.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
This thread makes me sad. I was taught always to treat the homeless with compassion, and am trying to teach my children the same. I didn't know people liked to go out and kill them and injure them. It's so alien from my life. It is just... Saddening.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Before I say anything else let me say that I think its despicable to treat those in need in this manner. But I think this is not really as big of a problem as to warrant news coverage.
"• Number of attacks on homeless at highest level in almost a decade • 122 attacks, 20 murders in 2006, according to National Coalition for the Homeless"
122 attacks across the entire United States and only 20 murders really is not that bad.
To put it in perspective,
Detroit by itself in 2004 had 384 Murders and in total 21240 instances of "Violent Crime."
Its a pet topic but I think crime rates in Detroit should be reported everyday.
Though admittedly crime in Detroit has been slowly decreasing, at least if we look at the last 10 years. In 1994 there were 541 homicides in Detroit alone.
Another perspective,
from 12/15/05 - 2/19/07 there have been 994 American soldier deaths in Iraq. Thats about 1 year + 2 months.
Detroit though doing better, used to be almost literally as dangerous as the entire country of Iraq right now.
Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
There are a whole lot more people dieing in Iraq than the few American soldiers. You can't say they're the only ones that count.
I do agree with you that Detroit was/is dangerous, however.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nato: There are a whole lot more people dieing in Iraq than the few American soldiers. You can't say they're the only ones that count.
I do agree with you that Detroit was/is dangerous, however.
Oh agreed, but I'd still say the average American would think a soldier in Iraq is in far more danger then somebody who lives in Detroit, and they would be wrong to think so.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Though this isn't serious at all compared to the main issue at hand, this annoys me slightly:
quote: "We recognize that this isn't every teenager, but for some this passes as amusement."
Isn't EVERY teenager? It's not even 1% of teenagers. Not even .1%. These peoples didn't beat up homeless people because they're teenagers. They did it because they're pyschos. I hate the image that some older people have of teenagers...
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:Criminologists call these wilding sprees "sport killing," -- largely middle-class teens, with no criminal records, assaulting the homeless with bats, golf clubs, paintball guns.
I think that, in bold, is why these stories get so much attention. The suspects are ... allegedly "good" kids (a demographic that usually doesn't commit murder) ... killing strangers (a random, senseless, violent act) ... for their own entertainment (a particularly despicable motive).
And while all murders are bad, those three elements make the crime all the more revolting. --j_k
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
I read this earlier today, and I haven't been so disturbed by anything in a very long time. Thinking about this just...hurt.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Also note the almost standard comment, "The video games made me do it."
I'm not all knowing but I highly expect that that concept will form possibly even the crux of that kids defense in court. The fact they were high will probably also play a factor.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Nato: There are a whole lot more people dieing in Iraq than the few American soldiers. You can't say they're the only ones that count.
I do agree with you that Detroit was/is dangerous, however.
Oh agreed, but I'd still say the average American would think a soldier in Iraq is in far more danger then somebody who lives in Detroit, and they would be wrong to think so.
The comparison is invalid. Detroit is an American city with a reasonable expectation of safety (all jokes aside), whereas Iraq is a warzone, where Americans visiting prepare accordingly. The people who die in Iraq are highly trained, well equipped military personnel, or civilians working closely with and being protected by said personnel. If you substituted American soldiers in Iraq with citizens of Detroit, the number of deaths would skyrocket.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:These peoples didn't beat up homeless people because they're teenagers. They did it because they're pyschos. I hate the image that some older people have of teenagers...
Except the article seems to make it clear that they are not psychos. Rather, they appear to be for the most part normal teens.
My guess is that the critical cause here is this:
quote:When the mob mentality takes over, even the perpetrators may not comprehend what's going on.
Psychologists have studied this before - people are more likely to do something the would otherwise know is wrong when a part of a group of people who are all committing the same wrongful act. My wager would be that teenagers are especially prone to that.
So, I'd argue they are not psychos. Rather, they are normal teens who become cruel when a certain mob mentality takes over. The question is, how can we prevent it? What can a parent teach a child to stop them from succumbing to a seemingly natural human willingness to go blindly along with the mob?
Posted by The Flying Dracula Hair (Member # 10155) on :
Separate from teenage "sport killings", right across the street from me, in a bright blue little house with a white picket fence, lived an elderly woman who had befriended several homeless men just so she could run them over for money a while she got them insured. I forgot exactly how the plan worked.
It's just pure evil. Premeditated, meticulously planned, evil.
[ February 21, 2007, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: The Flying Dracula Hair ]
Posted by Survivor (Member # 233) on :
It's human.
The aspect of community formation that leads you to feel the need to actively attack someone that is strange and different is a fundamental part of your biology. You can redefine the community, you can create elaborate rules and rituals (written or not) to restrict these attacks, you can organize and train and do whatever you want.
The fact remains, you want to be on the inside of the community, and you feel the need to attack that which is outside.
You can't stop this kind of behavior. You can only hold individuals accountable for their own actions.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I honestly don't understand how you can reconcile statements like that with your own theology, Richard.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Nato: There are a whole lot more people dieing in Iraq than the few American soldiers. You can't say they're the only ones that count.
I do agree with you that Detroit was/is dangerous, however.
Oh agreed, but I'd still say the average American would think a soldier in Iraq is in far more danger then somebody who lives in Detroit, and they would be wrong to think so.
The comparison is invalid. Detroit is an American city with a reasonable expectation of safety (all jokes aside), whereas Iraq is a warzone, where Americans visiting prepare accordingly. The people who die in Iraq are highly trained, well equipped military personnel, or civilians working closely with and being protected by said personnel. If you substituted American soldiers in Iraq with citizens of Detroit, the number of deaths would skyrocket.
Ok well if the training factor for troops decreases how many are actually killed, then the law enforcement and court systems can explain a decrease in actual murders commited in Detroit as well.
But I will give you that I have no idea how much crime is actually prevented by law enforcement.
Iraq's law enforcement is not equal to Detroit's.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Flying Dracula Hair: Separate from teenage "sport killings", right across the street from me, in a bright blue little house with a white picket fence, lived an elderly woman who had befriended several homeless men just so she could run them over for money a while she got them insured. I forgot exactly how the plan worked.
It's just pure evil. Premeditated, meticulously planned, evil.
That's messed up on so many levels.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tara: Though this isn't serious at all compared to the main issue at hand, this annoys me slightly:
quote: "We recognize that this isn't every teenager, but for some this passes as amusement."
Isn't EVERY teenager? It's not even 1% of teenagers. Not even .1%. These peoples didn't beat up homeless people because they're teenagers. They did it because they're pyschos. I hate the image that some older people have of teenagers...
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