Anna Nicole Smith, the former Playboy playmate whose bizarre life careened from marrying an octogenarian billionaire to the untimely death of her son, died Thursday after collapsing at a South Florida hotel, one of her lawyers said.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
My money is on an overdose of some kind.
I would argue her life "careened" long before she married a billionaire.
Posted by signal (Member # 6828) on :
I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
Of course. She had a baby girl. And she was a human being. Imperfect, yes, but a person nonetheless.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by signal: I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
I'm sure her late husband's son does.
-(Anna Nicole Smith)= $$$
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I'm sure her late husband's son does.
Nope. He's dead too.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
This is positively Atrean.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:I'm sure her late husband's son does.
Nope. He's dead too.
He is?
edit: I am talking about the son who tried to block her from getting any money from his father's estate. Not Anna's son who died last year.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:I would argue her life "careened" long before she married a billionaire.
I think you read that wrong. Think "careened from A to Z" not "careened from causation issue X."
quote:I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
quote:-(Anna Nicole Smith)= $$$
You surprise me, hatrack. And not in a good way.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Look, I can't say that I ever cared much about her life or exploits. I haven't followed any of it that hasn't been in my face, but perhaps a little respect for the dead is in order.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The rich man's son died last year. The grandson was continuing the legal fight.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
No, her late husband's son died at the age of 67.
Her 20-something son died late last year.
Only her infant baby girl survives.
I never liked ana nicole smith at all, but I felt inexplicibly sad when I heard she died. Maybe it was all about her little girl who will grow up without a mommy.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: edit: I am talking about the son who tried to block her from getting any money from his father's estate. Not Anna's son who died last year.
Yeah - E. Pierce Marshall -- he died unexpectedly to in June of last year. In fact, just about everyone involved in this weird case has "unexpectedly died" now.
I just read the whole timeline of her life on one of the news sites... and it was more bizarre than I realized.
FG
(edit: Ha. we all post at the same time)
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
TL: I am not sure what you are upset about. I mistakenly believed the son who has been trying to keep her from getting any money was still alive, and in response to somebody's query about "who cares?" I suggest that that son might as it means his legal troubles are over and his financial situation is more favorable. It appears you can substitute the son for "the grandson" in this instance.
I am neither happy she is dead, nor sad, I see her life as a sad result of bad choices.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I don't think we'll ever know what exactly was wrong with her, but I think it's pretty obvious that that woman had some deep and unfulfilled needs.
I pretty much hated everything she stood for, but I didn't want her to die.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
I hope no one says that when you die.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:TL: I am not sure what you are upset about.
I am not sure why you think I'm upset.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Strider,
Do you honestly care? Honestly?
Posted by signal (Member # 6828) on :
Ok, well I didn't know about her daughter. That is sad. And I'm not saying her death isn't sad, but is the world any less without her? When I think of decent human beings, she isn't exactly at the top of the list.
Strider, if someone says that when I die, then they obviously didn't know me. Why should they care if I haven't impacted them in any way? I'd be more offended if someone pretended to care.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
SS, no, I personally don't care any more than if I read a report saying Joe Smith from Iowa died last night. A person died, and that's sad.
I just don't think that kind of response is warranted for any person's death. Why do they have obituaries in newspapers? Obviously people want to be appraised of other people's deaths. So someone cares. Maybe a majority of americans dislike Anna Nicole Smith, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have friends and family that are saddened by her death. Someone saw she died and felt the need to post it here. If you don't care about her death, stay out of the thread.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
Oh dear. Yes, she was sleazy, but she managed to be pretty without being stick-thin and was a positive role model in that respect at least.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I for one can honestly say I'm sad she died. And its hard for me to see how people could not feel at least a little bit of sadness. She is a person. I can understand Sadaam Huessein. He was a bad dude. Anna Nicole Smith was just kind of messed up. I would've loved to see her grow old and learn from her mistakes and really contribute to the world. Now she'll never have that opportunity. Her life is over. I'm very sad about that, so I suppose that means I care. I can't say I cared for the way she lived her life, but I care a great deal that now she doesn't have a chance to improve it.
Sorry for the rambling post. I'm tired and hungry.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TL:
quote:TL: I am not sure what you are upset about.
I am not sure why you think I'm upset.
quote: You surprise me, hatrack. And not in a good way.
Perhaps I misunderstand but I felt you were stating that my comments were in poor taste, enough to surprise you that they should be found on hatrack.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
That is correct.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
I read her brief bio at MSN.com and it's so tragic! First her old husband, then her son, and then she passes and leaves a little baby girl who's being fought over by the two men who claim to be the baby's father. I can't help feeling sad about it too.
It is shocking as well. She was so young.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
While I agree it's somewhat crass to ask if anyone cares, I think it's a fairly legitimate logical question to be asking on a board such as this, at least as legitimate as starting the thread at all.
Surely there are people who care about her life, but I find it doubtful that anyone here cares about it any more than any other generic person that died leaving behind an infant.
I was going through a similar line of thought when a coworker popped into my cube and told me this as well... I have no response for that announcement. In principle it's sad that a human life has ended (particularly one leaving behind a small child) but I have no connection, no interest and no personal care for Anna Nichole. If anything I honestly feel less sorry for her than for random person X who I know nothing about because I have some knowledge that she'd already squandered much of her life with poor decisions, while person X may or may not have. Do I think she was beyond some sort of redemption or worthy of death? not particularly. Do I think we should be focusing on her death any more than any other person who had little-no direct impact on us? not particularly.
really this bugs me because the concept of people who are famous just because they're famous bugs me (the Anna Nichole's, Paris Hiltons etc...) but just because somehow these people make it into the media there suddenly occurs this assumption that I want to know about them. I'd rather watch documentaries on dairy farmers in Wisconsin, and mourn their deaths more.
Sorry if this comes across as even more crass/caustic than the original posts, but I'm trying to be honest.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:A person died, and that's sad.
Sure, it's sad for people whose lives were affected in some positive way by her life, or whose lives will be adversely affected because of her absence, but beyond that, I'm not sure why it would be sad for anyone else. I guess, if anything, I'm sad that she seemed to live an unhappy life, but that was the result of her own choices and even another fifty years of life may not have changed that. But it's more the idea of an unfulfilled, unfinished life that I'm sad about, not the individual person. If every person that died "before their time" made me sad, I would be sad a lot.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Strider,
A person dying is sad, but as you note, that doesn't mean that we care about her death specifically. It doesn't mean that her death warrants mention on Hatrack over the other nameless deaths in the world that recieve no mention, or that people take no notice of.
Your self-righteous indignation is misplaced, but expected. I and the other poster are just asking a question, a perfectly reasonable question, and if you can get around that self-righteous indignation, you might see that perspectives other than your own are perfectly legitimate in this thread, rather than something to be dismissed out of hand with a 'stay out of the thread'.
I don't care that Smith was mentioned on Hatrack. I don't think ill of Chris for making this thread.
On the other hand, I'm just not sure that she is really someone that deserves a thread devoted to her passing from people that aren't family.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ok then,
What exactly are you "surprised" about?
I think you misunderstand the rationale and emotions behind my comments, and would rather not have you as a result look down on me.
I'd like to if possible clarify the misunderstanding, and I need you to illuminate your point of view for me to do that.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Your self-righteous indignation is misplaced
I know it's probably not what you intended, but that line actually mad me smile.
quote:On the other hand, I'm just not sure that she is really someone that deserves a thread devoted to her passing from people that aren't family.
point taken. but is this really the thread to discuss whether Anna Nicole Smith deserved to have a thread devoted to her passing? I think it just would've showed a little more respect to start another thread discussing the idea. But really, who are you(or any of us) to decide what warrants a thread on hatrack or not? Every time someone posts a thread about someone dying do we need to take a poll to determine whether enough people think that person was important enough to deserve a thread?
I get that a lot of people might not care about her death. But what purpose does it serve to come into this thread and say, "i don't care"?
btw...above when I said this:
quote:If you don't care about her death, stay out of the thread.
I wasn't specifically calling you out. It was more of a general statement along the lines of "But what purpose does it serve to come into this thread and say, "i don't care"?" It's like going into a thread and saying "this thread is stupid".
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote:I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
I hope no one says that when you die.
I doubt I'll care much at that point.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: I know it's probably not what you intended, but that line actually mad me smile. [Smile]
That's cool. It's not like I was trying to make you cry or anything.
Thanks for taking my reply in good humor.
quote: quote:On the other hand, I'm just not sure that she is really someone that deserves a thread devoted to her passing from people that aren't family.
point taken. but is this really the thread to discuss whether Anna Nicole Smith deserved to have a thread devoted to her passing? I think it just would've showed a little more respect to start another thread discussing the idea. But really, who are you(or any of us) to decide what warrants a thread on hatrack or not? Every time someone posts a thread about someone dying do we need to take a poll to determine whether enough people think that person was important enough to deserve a thread?
I get that a lot of people might not care about her death. But what purpose does it serve to come into this thread and say, "i don't care"?
I understand what you are saying, but it's hard for me to understand that people could have genuine feelings about her, Smith's, death. This isn't to say, of course, that they shouldn't, just that I don't understand. I think in my mind, she, Smith, represents a... really sad human being.
Would it really be more respectful to the original poster and others who want to honor her death to make another thread? I guess I can see that, and I see your point. But I have to ask, are threads about a person's death only places where we should mourn? Shouldn't we talk about what the person means to us and why we do or do not mourn?
I don't know. I have conflicted feelings about all of this. Ideally, I wonder if I should feel something about her passing, and I wonder what that says about me that I don't.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My first thought was of her baby. I mean, honestly, she might be better off without that kind of example in her life, but I still don't think it's my call to say she will be better off without her mother (even if it might be true.) So I feel sorry for the baby who will not know her mother.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:But I have to ask, are threads about a person's death only places where we should mourn? Shouldn't we talk about what the person means to us and why we do or do not mourn?
You're not off target, and I've had similar thoughts as well. I think the difference comes down to the way in which that discussion occurs. To me, a statement along the lines of "does anyone honestly care" is unduly harsh and doesn't really have a place in this thread. That post didn't discuss Anna Nicole's life at all. It didn't explain why the poster was unnaffected by Anna Nicole's passing. It didn't really do anything at all except trash a dead person.
Your question is a good one. Is it respectful to allow people to mourn who want to mourn, or is truth more important? Andrew Wiggin would say the truth is more important, if told properly and by one without bias. But as much as the idea of "speaking" appeals to me, many many others would look at something like that as hugely disrespectful of the dead. Imagine going to a funeral for someone and getting up on a podium and saying to everyone, "does anyone honestly care that this person is dead", or even a more tempered, "i personally don't care about this person's death, and here's why". Most people would say that was out line. even if it's the truth. So I guess there's a time and place for all those thoughts to come out. And similarly to a forum with different threads for different purposes, a place where people are mourning is probably not appropriate for a discussion of the merrits of the deceased. Then again, this IS a forum whose purpose is discussion. So I have no clear cut answer to this question.
The thing I do agree with is the idea of what is or isn't news worthy. Something bad happens to a celebrity and it's news worthy. Yet bad things happen all the time to people all over the world, and they never get as much coverage as when it happens to a star. That's a sad state of affairs, and I often want to(and do) just yell, "where are our priorities? Why don't people care about bad things unless they happen to personal loved ones or celebrities?"
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: You're not off target, and I've had similar thoughts as well. I think the difference comes down to the way in which that discussion occurs. To me, a statement along the lines of "does anyone honestly care" is unduly harsh and doesn't really have a place in this thread. That post didn't discuss Anna Nicole's life at all. It didn't explain why the poster was unnaffected by Anna Nicole's passing. It didn't really do anything at all except trash a dead person.
I didn't mean it to come off that way. I was, and am, genuinely curious why people care about her death beyond the fact that she was a human being; why her death deserves attention over and above anyone else's death.
quote: The thing I do agree with is the idea of what is or isn't news worthy. Something bad happens to a celebrity and it's news worthy. Yet bad things happen all the time to people all over the world, and they never get as much coverage as when it happens to a star. That's a sad state of affairs, and I often want to(and do) just yell, "where are our priorities? Why don't people care about bad things unless they happen to personal loved ones or celebrities?"
I get why it's newsworthy, I doubt most people care, though that is not to say that some on Hatrack do.
Quite honestly, I think I am kind of angry in a way at her. I think I see all the media attention as almost the icing on the cake for someone who was basically the poster child for freak luck. She rode her dna to the big time. That's her real accomplishment in life. That's what got her where she is today. I don't think she deserved what she had. So, to me it's not that she's getting the media attention, but that she got so much in life for nothing, while others work so hard and get less than nothing in return. Anyone on Hatrack deserves her good fortune more than she does.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I wish bad fortune on her. I just think what she got was far out of proportion to what she really deserved.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I just think what she got was far out of proportion to what she really deserved.
I think that what the vast majority of us who live in the first world get is far out of proportion to what we really deserve.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:I just think what she got was far out of proportion to what she really deserved.
I think that what the vast majority of us who live in the first world get is far out of proportion to what we really deserve.
Truer words were never spoken.
Posted by jh (Member # 7727) on :
I care that she died and I feel sorry for her family to have gone through so much tragedy, with the deaths of her son and now herself at such a young age. I think it's without question that her baby daughter would have been better off with her mother than without, and I'm sorry that she has to grow up without a mom. That's tough, especially since she hasn't even reached a year old.
Honestly, I don't really see how you can make an opinion on how much she does or doesn't deserve; I believe she lived her life the best she could, and no one should judge her on the decisions she has made given the tough life she has led.
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
I can't help but see some bitter humor in the fact that this kind of debate is taking place in the forums of the author behind "Speaker for the Dead."
Think about it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I believe she lived her life the best she could
I believe that practically nobody does this.
I know I haven't.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:I can't help but see some bitter humor in the fact that this kind of debate is taking place in the forums of the author behind "Speaker for the Dead."
see my post above Saephon. Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I don't care she died. In fact, I thought it was a given that she would die the way she apparently did. The only reason I am even saying this is because people in the thread have made such a stink that I don't care, and therefore want to voice my opinion.
As to the question, what would you feel if people didn't care that you died. I would say I wouldn't be surprised - especially if they don't know me.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I didn't exactly think of her on a daily basis, but she didn't blatantly offend my sensibilities like some public figures manage to. I'm sorry to hear that she died so young.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:I believe she lived her life the best she could
I believe that practically nobody does this.
I know I haven't.
I, on the other hand, believe that practically everybody does.
On topic, I felt terrible for her when her son died -- I didn't know much about her before I read about that, and I have found myself feeling, what, pity? for her now and then since. Her son died in the hospital room where she had just had a baby. That struck something deep in me.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I think it is interesting that people need to state their lack of caring about her death. Why is that?
I felt very sad, in the way I feel sad when a character in a novel meets an untimely end.She was a character, for sure.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I can understand a belief people live the best lives they can in the abstract (I don't share that belief, but I understand it)...but how can anyone here possibly have anything other than abstract guesswork that this applies to her?
I'm not speaking of her well-known flaws and foibles, I'm speaking of the fact that no one here knows her at all.
Posted by signal (Member # 6828) on :
Strider and others, I think you read more animosity and ill will in my comment than I intended. (Also, I did not mean it as a knock to Chris' posting, so if he or anyone took it as such, sorry.) I'm of the same mindset as what Storm Saxon has already explained. I think it was a fair question to ask which everyone seemed to dismiss as a cruel remark. I mean the media wouldn't have focused on her much less even acknowledged her existence were it not for her being a playboy model, having her whole marriage/will thing and acting drugged up on her own show. If it was anyone else, you wouldn't have even known and therefore wouldn't have cared.
It's a very different thing if I had said that in a hatracker's personal thread about someone they cared deeply about - something I would never even think about. There have been threads over the years that I've been here where people have come to hatrack about the death of someone they love, and I empathize and truly feel sad, not because I knew the person that died, but because I feel as if I know the hatracker who has lost. There is a connection there.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Her life proves that if a person wants one thing so badly that they will do anything to get it, they probably will, so if you have such a passion it better be for something that you will take joy from the having.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
While flipping through channels tonight, Anna Nichole's death was on every news channel and most of the e-type channels. While I do feel sad about the death, I had a huge amount of contempt for the celebrit-ized culture we live in, where everyone knows who anna nichole smith is and most people can't name their congressman.
I didn't like the news of her death being forced upon me on every channel when more "important" people die every day. It sounds awful to hear myself say that--but it's what I'm feeling right now.
A composer named Gian Carlo Menotti died last Thursday. His music was not very popular, but I've enjoyed studying it and he made his "dent" in my world. He did get some news blips at the bottom of the screen, too, and that made me happy.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
they aired a great interview with him on NPR.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I heard about it and went to the website to check it out. I really liked his particular brand of 20th century harmony. Consonant chords, but you never knew where they were going.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
From Farmgirl's link...
quote: According to Wikipedia, nurses for Marshall claim she didn’t live with him and did not visit him when his condition became terminal.
Is it a good thing when journalists use Wikipedia as a source of information? [/tangent]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Especially when Wiki articles are deliberately sabotaged by folks who don't like the person being discussed. Heck, they don't even hafta do it themselves: Wikibio-sabotage is a profession these days.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: I think that what the vast majority of us who live in the first world get is far out of proportion to what we really deserve.
This can be taken so many ways, I have no idea what you're really trying to say, Porter.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
Anna Nicole who? Was she the diapered astronaut? No?
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
I am so sick of this already. It’s all over the news, it’s the only thing they are talking about on the radio. I can’t stand it.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
You know you're not forced to watch the news, right?
I never understood why people subject themselves to stuff that makes them crazy, especially when said stuff is completely voluntary. Like my friend who listens to Rush Limbaugh every morning, and yells at Rush Limbaugh every morning, and mentions at every turn that he hates the guy with the fire of a thousand suns. Well then, dude, change the station!
--------------
Storm, It's my understanding that porter believes that people who have the good fortune to be born in America have it a lot easier than our foreign counterparts. Specifically, those born in 2nd or 3rd world countries. The poorest person in the US is pretty well off by world standards. And since being born here is pure chance, none of us did anything in particular to earn this good fortune.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Well, I like that it overshadowed and killed most of the ongoing story about the astronaut lady, in the general media. I didn't want to keep hearing that either.
I'm wondering how this is all going to hang concerning her companion/lawyer Howard K. Stern. Because he's already under suspicion of aiding in the death of Smith's son in the Bahamian investigation (for actually providing him with the Methodone that he later OD'd on), and you have to wonder, then, if he provided, encouraged, or discouraged her drug usage (if that is what it turns out to be).
Sounds like sadly they were involved with a group drug culture, to an extent. Hopefully the baby will be spared that environment.
(I realize some of this is speculation at this point)
FG
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I just think what she got was far out of proportion to what she really deserved.
What she got was unhappiness and a premature death. I don't think anyone really deserves that.
quote:she got so much in life for nothing, while others work so hard and get less than nothing in return.
I guess this all depends on what you're looking for in life. In my perspective, she tried so hard but got nothing out of life.
quote:Anyone on Hatrack deserves her good fortune more than she does.
I am not at all envious of either her lifestyle or fame.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
quote: Anna Nicole who? Was she the diapered astronaut? No?
There are some weeks when the weekly rags really must have a hard time picking the Headline. I suspect that the astronaut killed Anna Nichole to get out of the spotlight...
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: It's my understanding that porter believes that people who have the good fortune to be born in America have it a lot easier than our foreign counterparts. Specifically, those born in 2nd or 3rd world countries. The poorest person in the US is pretty well off by world standards. And since being born here is pure chance, none of us did anything in particular to earn this good fortune.
You sure about this? It seems like he's saying that people in the third world deserve their circumstances. Or maybe he's saying that no one does,and he's just singling out the first world or something, and it's all in the hands of Bob. Or maybe he's saying that Americans have had everything handed to them because we live in a country protected and maintained by the FSM.
The mind boggles, really.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
You know you're not forced to watch the news, right?
No, but when the national media is so consumed in the death of a Playmate, other life-and-death issues of international significance are being pushed aside. The global warming debate has been derailed. Adult diapers are the topic of conversation on news channels, as opposed to the Iraq war.
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean:
There are some weeks when the weekly rags really must have a hard time picking the Headline. I suspect that the astronaut killed Anna Nichole to get out of the spotlight...
Or better yet, a lesbian affair gone wrong. Lust in Space: Love Quadrangle?
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I care that she died, and not because of a left behind baby, dead husbands and sons, or what an "unhappy" life she led. I care and am sad that she died because she was an entertainer.
From the time that she was legally allowed she has been energetically performing to the lowest common denominator. Her flamboyance and certain brand of charm have put smiles on millions of faces around the world, and warmed the hearts and crotches of some of the more desperately lonely men alive.
It is sometimes a thankless profession, sometimes a lonely one, but one that brings joy to thousands and, I hope, a kernel of happiness to Anna Nicole. Dancer, actress, model and talk show host: Anna Nicole surpassed everyone's expectations and did it with her whole self. Anna Nicole Smith knew who she was, knew what she wanted and knew that she would get it, whatever the cost, and that is deserving of my respect, at least. It was long and crazy ride, and I, for one, am very sorry to see it end.
(I am fully aware that this is almost entirely conjecture, but it is my honest feeling, as well as what I think she deserves)
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
If that's the way you feel, then I respect that.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon:
quote: I think that what the vast majority of us who live in the first world get is far out of proportion to what we really deserve.
This can be taken so many ways, I have no idea what you're really trying to say, Porter.
JT is exactly correct.
I mean that even people who live below the poverty line in America have a better standard of living than 99%* of the people living on other parts of the world.
*number pulled out of my ear
When it comes to money and physical comfort, which is what was being talked about with ANS receiving all that money she didn't deserve, almost everybody on this board is phenomenally well off in comparison to a) people throughout history and b) people throughout the world.
Sure, ANS didn't do anything to deserve the millions she got from her dead husband. But I didn't do anything to deserve a childhood free from worry where I never went hungry and always had warm clothes. I didn't deserve the opportunity to go to college and get a job which pays well enough that I've been able to satisy my wife's heartfelt desire to live in the country surrounded by plants and animals.
Did I work hard to get what I have? Yes. But not nearly as hard as most people in the world work in order to live like crap.
Most people in the world have as much of a chance to acheive my current standard of living as I have of marrying a rich octegenarian who leaves me hundreds of millions of dollars: practically none.
Yes, she got more than she deserved, but so has practically every person on this board.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
To paraphrase Matt Groening, you can legitimize anything if you just compare it to infinity.
I get what you are saying, Porter, but what you are saying seems to me to be almost a straw man, if not in fact one, and can be used to shortcut almost any discussion.
Don't like the conditions in prisons in the U.S.? Well, at least they're not in ______________.
Think someone got a raw deal being beaten? Well, at least they weren't beaten and killed.
As far as that goes, many people in the world right now have things better than they did twenty, forty, 100 years a go. Should they complain, or not want what they deserve for their hard labour?
Sure, in comparison to some of the rest of the world and almost all of history, many in the U.S. are well-off, but I think that leaves the issues that have been raised in relation to Smith's notoriety and wealth unanswered. I don't believe it rebuts the concerns that I, and Strider, and others have raised.
People want what is possible. Just because others cannot have something, or don't have something, few would argue that that means that they should not have it or don't deserve it. It's contrary to human nature.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Porter, I didn't deserve it, but I didn't NOT deserve it, either. Merit had nothing to do with it, and I won't apologize to anyone for my having been born in the US. Merit comes in when we analyze WHAT people do with the situation circumstance puts them in... do they blithely accept it, or do they use their wits and wills to bend circumstance to their desires and dreams?
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:She rode her dna to the big time. That's her real accomplishment in life. That's what got her where she is today. I don't think she deserved what she had.
What exactly makes someone deserving of something? Isn't everything in some way attributable to chance or DNA or both?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I get what you are saying, Porter, but what you are saying seems to me to be almost a straw man, if not in fact one, and can be used to shortcut almost any discussion.
I think it's important in a discussion about how she won the lottery to remember that so did all of us, to a lesser extent.
My intent was not to end the conversation.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
No, that's cool, and I get what you're saying.
On a kind of side note, I am having one of little monthly bouts with insomnia this week, and everything I do is done through a haze of angry bees in my brain, so that I think I'm being both more prickly than usual and more grouchy. I know, hard to tell what's different, but there it is.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I don't think Porter is saying that Americans all get a first class ticket through life for free and that's unfair. I think Porter is simply acknowledging that the world is not equal, and Americans are generally on the high ebb of things, while folks on the low ebb can do all they can to work hard and intelligently for their subsistence and still be far below our "acceptable" standards.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The Washington Post called her a courtesan. That sounds about right. Someone should write an opera about her.
Not quite respectable, but butter than a prostitute. The gray area. She is uncomfortable because she is a reminder than the much-vaunted institution of marriage is also occasionally a commercial transaction.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
She's also uncomfortable because she's a reminder that being blond and pretty can sometimes mean you don't have to be anything else.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I don't think Porter is saying that Americans all get a first class ticket through life for free and that's unfair. I think Porter is simply acknowledging that the world is not equal, and Americans are generally on the high ebb of things, while folks on the low ebb can do all they can to work hard and intelligently for their subsistence and still be far below our "acceptable" standards.
If I understand Porters point its alot simpler than that. I think he is saying that if we shouldn't begrudge this woman's success because it was due in large part to good luck. All the rest of us who live in above poverty level in the western world are all beneficiaries of good luck. We should appreciate that rather than complain about the small number of people who are even luckier.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:You know you're not forced to watch the news, right?
I'll admit that I never heard of Anna Nicole Smith before her tragic death and I can't say my life would have been less rich if I'd never heard of her.
I know I'm not forced to watch the news, which is why I turn it off whenever stuff like this comes on. But still, there is news that I would like hear and I'm not hearing it because the media is obsessing over celebrity deaths and astronauts in diapers.
Please. I want to hear about important stuff. I can turn it off when this sort of drivel dominates the news day but I still don't get what I want.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
A shame... I mean, there's so much to DO at the Seminole Hard Rock!
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by signal: I don't mean to be cold, but does anyone honestly care?
At least we have class about it.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
They call using a car roughly 'driving it like you stole it' I would say that applies to Anna Nicole and the way she drove her body, it is not surprising that she crashed.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Oh crap.
In her will, she left everything to her dead son, and explicitly denied any inheritance to any other heirs.
Like that baby of hers.
quote:"I have intentionally omitted to provide for my spouse and other heirs, including future spouses and children and other descendants now living and those hereafter born or adopted," Smith said in the will, which was signed under her legal name, Vickie Lynn Marshall.
But if everything went to the son, wouldn't it all pass on to his next of kin? I'd think that would still be the baby.
Unless his preceding ANS means the money doesn't go to anyone. She was living in the Bahamas but was an American citizen. Even if her money goes to the state, which state would get it?
Inheritences are so weird.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: They call using a car roughly 'driving it like you stole it' I would say that applies to Anna Nicole and the way she drove her body, it is not surprising that she crashed.
I could make a joke about air bags, but that wouldn't be appropriate, would it?
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