Okay, this is probably the most random thread I've done, but I've always wondered.
Why am I so drawn to books with female protaganists?
I'm a 16 year old, adolescent male, who enjoys reading science-fiction and fantasy (Among other genres), and I find myself drawn more to female characters than male characters.
I mean, it's not like it's some type of attraction to women that somehow transcends my life into the world of fiction.
I don't know if it's because most books with female protaganists are usually written by woman authors. I read books regardless of the sex of the character or author, but I still find myself reading books like "Through Wolf's Eyes".
It's not because I enjoy the whole 'woman vs. society' theme, that seems to be the underpinning of many speculative fiction books (Do *not* get me started on "The Mists of Avalon"), not that I hate it. Actually, I really thought Sansa and Arya, from "A Song of Ice and Fire" books, were some of the most interesting characters I ever read - Sansa being a very real 'lady', and Arya not becoming this 'warrior woman' overnight, just because she has a strength of will in the face of adversity.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts.
Whether they've experienced the same thing, or have an idea why it would happen.
It's not like a concrete standard of mine... I read books with male protagonists, and really like them. But, while 'Judging a book by its cover', I'm more likely to read a book with a Woman on the cover, than a Man.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Interesting! I'm glad you're like that. I think I'm the opposite, and I know that I discriminate against female authors, though many of my favorite sf authors are women (Octavia Butler, Louis McMaster Bujold, Ursula K. Leguin). That's not true, though, for authors in history, of whom I only like a few women (Louisa May Alcott, Johanna Spyri, Jane Austen). As for main characters, I do prefer males there as well, though not as strongly. It would be interesting to see how many people fell in which camp and whether it varied much by gender.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Maybe it's because you think women are more interesting than men. Maybe it's because you are regressing to an infantile state where you reach out to maternal figures as an instinct.
Maybe cuz you'd prefer to "imagine" a female image than a male one? Who knows?
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Well, it could just be that you're interested in women, and enjoy getting the insights into the female psyche by reading about them.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
I don't have a theory, but, just to offer one more data point, I am similar to Nathan in this respect. While enjoying books with male protagonists, I actively seek out those that have a female lead. A female author is usually an added bonus.
Any recommendations of good fantasy books with strong female leads are appreciated!
Posted by jlt (Member # 10088) on :
Tamora Pierce's books are really good. Also, maybe because female characters don't tend to fall into the typical hero stigma of the mighty knight etc. but it really depens on the book anyway
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
I like Pierce's books and have read them all, except Terrier which I haven't been able to find yet. I've read the first chapter on her web page though, and I'm looking forward to it. Yes, I'm a 28 year old lawyer and I read children's books. So, sue me .
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tristan: Any recommendations of good fantasy books with strong female leads are appreciated!
Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion trilogy is the sine qua non of this measure, in my opinion. Can't recommend it highly enough.
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
Read those too, and liked them... In fact, I think I've read most of what's generally considered good fantasy in this genre. Now I'm looking for something a little more obscure.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I really don't care what the gender of the protagonist is. I don't seek out either, nor do I turn away either. However, my wife strongly--almost exclusively--prefers books with female protagonists. She also slightly prefers books by female authors.
Nathan, I think you might enjoy Debra Doyle's Mageworlds series--particularly the first book in the series, The Price of the Stars. It's science fiction, not fantasy, but then again, you could almost call it science fantasy.
Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
I like Jane Lindskold's books... As far as I know, they generally have female leads. I haven't read some of her stand-alones though.
I'll have to read these books people are naming... I have of list of books I'd like to check out... It keeps getting longer and longer... LOL
I actually was able to start reading 'A song of Ice and Fire' because of recommendations on hatrack (Though it's a rather popular series, and most anybody would have thought me illiterate for not knowing about it).
Oh, and, on an off note... I find that most of the 'gems' I've found in fantasy were children's books... Not teenage, or young adult books, since I find that they are almost always terrible. I mean childrens books. Chronicles of Narnia, The Secret Country, etc.
I think it would be interesting to find out what catagory in which people would fall in regards to preference to male/female protaganists. (Wow! That was a really long run-on)
Or, Young/old protaganists... Would OSC fans sympethize more with children protaganists, this explaining their initial interest in OSC's books?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I definitely sympathize more with young protagonists.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Hm. I think I gravitate more toward trying books with female protagonists, but I'm pretty equal-opportunity about what I end up liking. My three favorite living authors are Card, Chris Crutcher, and Elizabeth George. Their protagonists are all generally male, but I think the more important similarity in their books is the emotional intensity. Their books are wrenching, even -- yet ultimately hopeful. (Well, I haven't read the newest Elizabeth George yet...here's hoping she gets more hopeful.)
Out of curiosity, Nathan, which YA fantasy books have you read that were terrible?
Posted by ReikoDemosthenes (Member # 6218) on :
I don't actively seek out books where the protaganist is one gender or the other. However, I do know that I generally prefer a female protaganist. I tend to suspect that it has something to do with growing up around a lot of girls at home and frequently being friends with girls when I was younger, and I still am. That said, I absolutely fell in love with Margaret Lea in The Thirteenth Tale...
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Ah, I remember being a 16-year old adolescent male.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
Allow me to be so rude as to advocate some of my own favourites:
Ara - Tanith Lee
The Liveship Traders - Robin Hobb
The Shadowleaugue Series - Maggie Furey
The Empire Trilogy - Raymond E. Feist & Janny Wurtz
As best I can remember all of these have female leads. Enjoy! Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
I'd never thought about it, but I'm a 21-year-old female, and I generally find myself reading books with male protagonists. I must have issues with me father. ;)
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
I quite liked the Dark Angel trilogy by Meredith Pierce. The second book is a little weak (isn't that the rule with trilogies), but the first and last are Quite Good.
<edit>And the later books in the Earthsea series (Tehanu, The Other Wind, and the short story Dragonfly) have female protagonists and are very good. Earthsea in general is my second most highly recommended fantasy series.</edit>
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
One obvious suggestion is Wyrms by Orson Scott Card.
There's a good chance you've already read it, but since you didn't mention it...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Almost anything by Judith Tarr.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
You'd probably love the Nausicaa of the Valley of Winds manga series. Way better than the movie. It's filled with strong fantastic women, but that's Miyazaki for you. (Mononoke Hime comes to mind.)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Why on Earth would it be rude to advocate your favorites?
-o-
I mostly agree with the Empire Trilogy--except only (or mostly) the first two books. By the second book's end, all the issues are basically resolved, and the third book opens with what feels to me like an extremely manipulative attempt to recreate tension by basically taking everything away from her. It just doesn't feel like a trilogy to me. It feels like two good books, to which someone said, "Well fantasy always comes in trilogies, so write another one."
Come to think of it, much of that applies to the Harper Hall "trilogy," no?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
(However, I absolutely adored Dragonsinger. Very much a young adult book, but a thoroughly good one. I would certainly recommend it in this discussion.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I liked Dragondrums (book 3 of the HH trilogy), but I've always been a big Piemur fan.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I got kind of tired of Piemur. Menolly was my favorite.
Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B:
Out of curiosity, Nathan, which YA fantasy books have you read that were terrible?
Quite honestly, I don't remember the names. All of them used up my 100 page grace period, and then I just couldn't bring myself to read anymore. The titles all kind of blur together, anyway... And sadly, I'm not being fescetious.
Also... in replying to another post, I've never been able to read Wyrms. My library doesn't have it. Actually, my selection of books is pretty much limited to what my library has. Thanks for the suggestion, though... I'll have to try to find it and buy it. Here's to my upcoming birthday (money).
Tam Lin, YAY. I want to read that... So far, I've only read Dean's trilogy (The Secret Country, The Hidden Land, and The Dragon or something or other)
<Insert abrupt ending to post here>
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
Sharon Shinn creates some amazing characters of both sexes. Her Samaria trilogy, starting with Archangel, goes back and forth, focusing first on a feminine protagonist, then masculine, and so on. Very, very good.
I know it's cheesy, but one of my favorite female characters ever is Elora Danan, from the Shadow series by Chris Claremont and George Lucas. It takes one of my favorite stories of all time, Willow, and expounds on it, following Elora as she becomes a young adult. Some of it's cheesy crap, thanks, no doubt, to the contribution of George Lucas. But most of it wonderful. I really enjoyed where they took the story.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I got kind of tired of Piemur. Menolly was my favorite.
I love Menolly.
And Lessa, and Piemur, and Sebell, and Jancis, and Jaxom, . . . and F'lar, F'nor, F'lessan (and Tai), Brekke, Mirrim, Aramina & Jayge, Lytol, Readis, Sharra, Rill, Sorka & Sean, not to mention a bunch of characters who never appeared in the books but were part of fan clubs (approved by Anne).
And most of all, I love Robinton.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
i tend recently to play female characters in MMO's, if your going to stare for 5 hours at someones butt on a screen might as well make it female.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I adored Dragonsinger when I was 10 or 11--that was probably my real start into reading fantasy. I found Dragondrums disappointing, too...Piemur growing up was a drag.
Thanks for trying to remember, Nathan. The only YA fantasy I've actively hated was Eragon. I think Paolini will get better as he gets older, though.
And as long as we're giving recommendations, try Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. There have been some long and detailed recommendations of that book on this site (just search Mistborn). I read it first, then Elantris, the other book by the author. Mistborn is MUCH better, with a fantastic denouement that manages to be a completely satisfying ending while still creating curiosity about the sequels. That's a book I'll be buying in hardcover when it comes out this summer.
Edited to add: Oh, rivka, I love Robinton, too. *sigh*
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
I loved Dragonsinger. Though my favorite part of Dragondrums was when Menolly finally got together with Sebel (sp?).
I just reread Dragonflight the other day.
Have you ever tried Elvenbane by Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey?
And Elizabeth Moon has more series than just the ones about Paksennarion. My favorite of her heroes is Esmay Suiza, particularly in the book Once a Hero. That entire series has a number of really strong women.
Personally, though, despite being female, I've always preferred male protagonists to female for some reason, and in my few short-stories, I've almost always written in the first person as a male.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
It might be a little young for you, but I love all of Patricia Wrede's books. Her Enchanted Forest Trilogy is her most famous, it starts with Dealing With Dragons. However, I also adore Mairelon the Magician and its sequel The Magician's Ward as well as Sorcery and Cecelia or The Enchanted Chocolate Pot.
Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
I love Patricia Wrede!!! I've read all of the Enchanted Forest series (There are 4 books... But the fourth one was a drag). I don't know why, but I love 'younger' books, but 'teen' books irritate me. Not teen characters, but just books aimed and marketed for teens. I don't know why.
Also, in reply to an earlier post which I unfortunently passed over, I love the Thirteenth Tale. It's one of my favorites (Even though I technically isn't fantasy... But next to SF and Fantasy is gothic, most definitively!)
I love seeing all these book recommendations... With all of these, the library is *bound* to have some of them!
I kind of just posted this as a random thread, seeing if there was anybody else who kind of found that the sex of the MC plays a part (Just in the beginning... Once I start reading, I'll be just as picky, regardless of the sex) But now, I have all these books to check out. I've been kind of bummed, since I've pretty much read all of the library's 'listed' fantasy/sf authors. They list them on handy little pieces of paper which are free to grab.
But alas, now I have new direction in life... A bit melodramatic, but I think you guys get the idea. LOL.
In responce to an earlier thread, I, too, find myself writing books with female protaganists... I've tried to introduce multiple characters, of both sexes, and switch POV between them throughout the book, but it never really works out... *I*, the author get confused. So I'll stick to one MC and short stories for a while.
Out of sheer curiosity, has anybody read 'The Mists of Avalon'? Maybe I was a bit harsh earlier... It did get past my 100 page grace period, after all.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
I haven't read (all of) Mists of Avalon, but I did read Firebrand, which is kind of like Mists of Avalon in feel, I thought. Firebrand is the Trojan War from the perspective of Paris' twin sister Cassandra who was raised with the Amazons and who has an interesting relationship to the gods. However, I couldn't make it through Mists, but I enjoyed Firebrand despite its sort of pedantic feel when it came to Bradley's particular brand of historical feminism.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nathan2006: Tam Lin, YAY. I want to read that... So far, I've only read Dean's trilogy (The Secret Country, The Hidden Land, and The Dragon or something or other)
Whim of the Dragon. All phenomenal. I couldn't get into The Dubious Hills, though.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: And most of all, I love Robinton.
<sniff> Now I'm crying just thinking about him.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by dean: I haven't read (all of) Mists of Avalon, but I did read Firebrand, which is kind of like Mists of Avalon in feel, I thought. Firebrand is the Trojan War from the perspective of Paris' twin sister Cassandra who was raised with the Amazons and who has an interesting relationship to the gods. However, I couldn't make it through Mists, but I enjoyed Firebrand despite its sort of pedantic feel when it came to Bradley's particular brand of historical feminism.
I liked Mists of Avalon, but I loved Forest House (one of the prequels).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by dean: I loved Dragonsinger. Though my favorite part of Dragondrums was when Menolly finally got together with Sebel (sp?).
Well, duh. And it's Sebell. (Isn't Robin Wood's work gorgeous?)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: And most of all, I love Robinton.
<sniff> Now I'm crying just thinking about him.
Thanks bunches. I managed not to get all teary yesterday. *sniffle*
I have to go to the DMV! And then deal with Big Government Agency at work! I can't be crying over a fictitious *sniffle* character!
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
That is an awesome painting. =D And thanks for the correction. I tried doing a search and came up with this one guy who insisted on spelling it Sebelle, which I knew wasn't right.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nathan2006: I love Patricia Wrede!!! I've read all of the Enchanted Forest series (There are 4 books... But the fourth one was a drag). I don't know why, but I love 'younger' books, but 'teen' books irritate me. Not teen characters, but just books aimed and marketed for teens. I don't know why.
*slaps self* I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote Trilogy. I have all 4 books sitting on my bookshelf and I've read all 4 of them multiple times (I agree with you, the 4th is the weakest, although I believe it's the one she wrote first).
Are you talking about books like "Gossip Girl" "The A List" etc.? Those books disgust me, too, but there are plenty of other good books out there aimed at teens. They just take more work to find amoung the dredge.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nathan2006: I love Patricia Wrede!!! I've read all of the Enchanted Forest series (There are 4 books... But the fourth one was a drag). I don't know why, but I love 'younger' books, but 'teen' books irritate me. Not teen characters, but just books aimed and marketed for teens. I don't know why.
A trilogy can be more than one book. Ask Douglas Adams. <grin>
[ January 23, 2007, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Lisa ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: A trilogy can be more than one book. Ask Douglas Adams. <grin>
Indeed, the vast majority of them are at least three. Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
Which reminds me. I own and have read Terrier, and it's well worth it. I hope that Pierce does more books about Beka Cooper. I think she's one of the most awesome protagonists she's got yet. It makes me miss my Alanna books because I want to go back and reread what Pierce said about George Cooper way back when.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
OK, I read the first Alanna book and was like, ho-hum. I haven't read any other Pierce books although I recommend them like crazy. Should I give her another try??
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
I feel the same way about female protagonists... perhaps it's because they are typically written as resolving conflicts in ways that most male heroes aren't depicted as doing, and I find that refreshing. Plus, they're not as dumb as men, heh.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
dean- There are going to be 3 books about Beka Cooper.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
Awesome, blacwolve! Something to look forward to!
As for the question of Tamora Pierce, her Alanna books aren't her best works. She wrote them when she was pretty young and they have a lot of flaws that she corrects in her later writing. Her later writing tends to be better characterized and better paced between the length of time happening in a book and the length of the book. I love the Alanna books a lot because they were the first of her books that I read and because I really admire Alanna, but they were by no means Pierce's best.
I would recommend, Liz, that you try reading some of her newer stuff. My recommendation would be to read Trickster's Choice or Terrier for examples of what and how she's writing now. Trickster's Choice is about Alanna's daughter, Ali or Terrier, which is about George Cooper's famous ancestress.
In fact, before I'd read some of her latest stuff, I had considered Tamora Pierce to be something of a guilty pleasure, but I feel that she's really growing and developing as a writer, and her latest stuff is some of her best (with the exception of the, to my mind disappoint, Will of the Empress). I almost wish she would take up the task of rewriting the Alanna books with her more mature skill-level. Almost.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by dean: I tried doing a search and came up with this one guy who insisted on spelling it Sebelle, which I knew wasn't right.
EW!!! *pokes out own eyes*
Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Bowles: I feel the same way about female protagonists... perhaps it's because they are typically written as resolving conflicts in ways that most male heroes aren't depicted as doing, and I find that refreshing. Plus, they're not as dumb as men, heh.
Dumb? That's really low, man. Do you wanna take it outside? Huh?
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
I've felt this way occasionally too, but I think it was because I found it erotic to get into a woman's mind like that.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
The protagonists of Hero and the Crown and The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley are female. The books, I guess, are targeted for an early-YA audience, but I found them fun to read as an adult. McKinley has written many similar books that I'd almost certainly recommend if I'd actually read them.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
I really like all of Robin McKinley's books. My favorite is intended for adults and is called Sunshine about a girl who just wants to bake muffins at her family's restaurant, but who accidentally gets mixed up with vampires.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I adore Sunshine! It's one of my favorite books.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I love The Blue Sword. It's one of the rare books that I loved in my early teens, then re-read and loved just as much as an adult.
The Hero and the Crown was a Newbery winner, which is kind of odd. It's a GREAT book, but not the type usually recognized by that award.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Why am I so drawn to books with female protaganists?
My girlfriend says: Because you're a heroine addict!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And it's Sebell. (Isn't Robin Wood's work gorgeous?)